What Language Did the Indus Valley Civilization Speak?
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One of history's biggest mysteries is what language was spoken by the rulers of the IVC (Indus Valley Civilization), also known as the Harappan civilization. Many proposals have been made, but which one do you think is the most likely, and why? Let us know.
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languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll...
www.jstor.org/stable/29757733
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Look at the Doc's hair. He ran through a tornado (or hurricane?) to share this information with us. That's the kind of dedication that he has to his craft.
I think his spectacles messed up his hair
He's going for the Boris Johnson, loveable rogue thing.
Dude, next time GO AROUND, DOC!
Has anyone seen Dr. Irving Finkel? It might be a historian thing.
I think he might be going for the Tsoukalos look so he'd be less intimidating for the alt-history crowd...
I'm from Punjab Pakistan where Harrapa is located. It's really so informative video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
I _love_ that they could tell it’s written right to left because they wrote the way I write things like birthday cards.
You think you have so much room! Next thing you know you’re squeezing all the letters and running them down the side! 😂
But if it's written on seal wouldn't it be opposite because of its imprint?
@@kapilsethia9284prints are designed in such a way that they are readable in the correct direction
@@shahanshahpolonium which is?
also worth mentioning imo are (extinct) isolated languages; Vedda, Burushaski, Nihali & Kusunda
is Burushaski really dead? I didn't know. Would ask my friends from Gilgit Baltistan.
@@SyedaSamanGulzar it isnt
but Vedda is extinct, Kusunda only has a single speaker & Nihali is just 25% Nihali anymore
@@hokton8555 thanks for explaining. Be blessed.
@@hokton8555 Vedda isnt extinct, couple of hundred speakers still remain, Vedda is already a creole of Sinhalese, but we dont know the other language also present in the creole
@@rockinflemingo3075 im talking about the original language which isn't known
The hard truth is that there's so little written text to translate, even if we could
Like the loss of the codex from ancient Mexico that was destroyed, it creates an impenetrable barrier to bringing alive this ancient civilization
This is true but even understanding little text could possibly help expand our knowledge in interesting ways. Although it also very likely could not.
Only time machine I think can solve or any new discovery of a ancient site which includes the mystery main puzzle piece
I am kinda hoping for a Rosetta stone here. We know the Harappans traded a lot with Elam and Mesopotamia so I am kinda hoping they find something with text in both languages, there is still plenty of places not excavated yet, particularly in Elam. I guess chances of that is pretty slim though.
But if it is a writing system (which is certainly seems to be) they must have used it for longer texts too, likely on fragile materials and finding one such text in readable shape would help a lot.
I don't buy that they would invent reading but only use it on some official seals, writing is super useful.
my first step if Dravidian is not the match would be something between it and Elamite
@@szymonbaranowski8184 Possibly but it is pretty hard to say since we don't know as much as we would like to know about the languages in the area at the time.
Elamite is the closest language that actually is written down but it is a bit of guess work to know which pre writing languages that were spoken inn this part of Asia.
Something related to Dravidian would make sense but the language might just as well been lost with the Harappan civilization, not all languages have close relatives (just look on Basque) and even if it had, all variants might be long gone.
And yeah, it could have been related to Elamite, we basically know the Harappans and Elamites had close knit trading relations but not really much more then that.
Heck, we don't even know anything about the Harappan political system, if they had one or many kings, were a theocracy or even if they had rulers.
We know they liked public baths, that they had very advanced plumbing and a vast trade network but not that much more.
We don't know why the seals with writing on them suddenly disappeared while the civilization kept going on for centuries later either, it is pretty odd that a civilization keeps going but decides to stop use writing for some unknown reason.
Lastly, the rumors that Harappans were 100% peaceful is a bit sus, they had a lot of weapons for pacifists but we haven't found any signs of war yet.
In conclusion: We seriously need a lot more digging at old and new found sites, this civilization is still very mysterious.
The IVC has the dubious distinction of being an absolutely massive civilization that was completely, utterly forgotten by the world. Even their own descendants. It boggles my mind how such a large civilization could be forgotten so completely, that there doesn't exist any mythology of them in any way shape or form. Their descendants definitely survived, but they left no stories for their children. How strange.
@@Chad.Commenter while the actual records of the mature IVC does not appear in any text of iron and post iron age India. Hinduism is said to be derived from the religion of the IVC ,more accurately Hinduism is the mixture of the IVC religion and the proto Indo Aryan religion (derived from proto Indo European) which enters India around 1400BC during the time of the late Harappan(IVC) cemetery H culture where cremation (a practice common in Hinduism) is first attested .
@@extratropicalcyclone8567 I don't think so; Hinduism has far more commonality with Iranian culture and even Indian subcontinental tribal culture, see sanskritization of Lord Jagganath, Hinduism is definitely a mix of many cultures, but that's the same as saying that Christianity is a mix of Mesopotamian and Greek culture. Most civilizations that don't go extinct genetically preserve a few threads from their past, none have ever been as forgotten as the Indus valley. Indus people existed at the same time as Indian chalcolithic tribes and even traded with them in pre-aryan times, evidence of them has been found in the middle east as well. They travelled quite far and even set up economic mining towns up north for the sole purpose of trade. Advanced economics. Standardization to the extreme. Signs of a highly developed civilization, and yet even the Aryans make not a single mention of them. They remember their conquests in Afghanistan and there are echoes of their past in Iran, but no sign of them even coming across the ruins of ruined towns and cities, even though they were separated by a few hundred years at most.
Wow, I must say I am thoroughly impressed by your deep study of the Indus Valley Civilization! Although I consider myself more of a science person, your dedication and passion for this subject have truly caught my attention. Your research is so detailed and thorough that it feels like an advanced mathematical or physics concept to me. I admire your ability to delve into this ancient civilization with such curiosity and intellectual rigor. Your work serves as a reminder that knowledge knows no boundaries and that all disciplines can offer valuable insights. Keep up the excellent work, and I look forward to seeing more of your fascinating studies!
There's some IVC graffiti found in archeological site of Keeladi or Aadhichanallur. The clay pots found in this site have IVC graffiti scribed on it. It shows there might be some links, either trade or migration from north to south since pottery found in S. India and IVC are of red and black unlike red in N. India. Another important note is when researchers analysed the black area of pot to find what was used, they found carbon nanotubes of 0.6nm don't know of exact value. So ancient people know about the process of strengthening the pot using carbon. Of course they have the knowledge as they had created uruk or woodz steel, which was the steel ingot used in making of Damascus steel.
No it wasn't found. Stop pushing this idea.
@@Trials_By_Errors check your facts first before speaking. The graffiti marks have been found in Keezhadi.
IVC graffiti is more close to Iran’s Elam Civilisation.
DNA also shows that IVC were Neolithic Iranian farmers who migrated into India in 3000 BC
@@zebrunstate2815 Elamite script is more closer to cuniform which was used to write ancient sumerian. Regarding DNA, if we go with African migration theory, it's obvious that the ancient Iranian DNA is similar to IVC DNA as they were neighbours
@@summa7545 This is because later Elam cuneiform adapted from sumerian Akkadian cuneiform which was used from 2500 bc to 330 BC
But proto-Elamite writing system and seals with bulls and lions are very similar to IVC which shows how Ancient Iranian ppl have migrated into India.
Excellent video as always!
Love your content. Obviously it's not a substitute for reading books and academic papers, but it's often a gateway drug for new topics that I didn't think of before.
For me, that’s exactly how informative content on CZcams and other social media should be viewed (the news, for that matter, should be viewed just as critically as this)
@@rp1455 well said!
Keep up the great work, Dr Miano! 👏
Thank you for your work.
the history of language is one of my favourite subjects, any language/dialect written or spoken, thanks Doc!
Fascinating topic, thanks for the latest news. I hadn't realized we had even as many samples as it sounds like we do. Maybe there is more hope than I previously thought. I wish we could find a Dead-Sea-Scrolls like cache of documents from every ancient civilization
Thank you David!
Great video, Doctor Miano!
Thank you for not being a raging conspiracy theorist but actually making well researched videos, really appreciated
And thank you!
@@WorldofAntiquity You missed a recent paper which makes a strong case that the IVC speakers were proto dravidians - this was done by tracing the Sumerian word for Elephant - an animal not present in Sumer at the time but which was present in the IVC area which they were trading with - and then comparing it with dravidian languages and finding a commonality. Thus the implication is that the Sumerians heard from the IVC people - the "Meluhans" or "Melukkans" - while these are not definitive - these inputs would have really added more flavor to this video.
@@AKumar-co7oe
Mitochondrial DNA of Sumerians proves their origin from Himalayas.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770703/
Still with Fake theories of Indo-Aryan without evidence .LOL
We all know this a cover up to hide the Klingon origin of our species.
Mr Miano, we already know what language the Indus Valley Civilization spoke. Abhijit Chavda said it was Vedic Sanskrit, and he says he knows it, because he has cracked the Indus Valley script. I am sarcastic of course, Abhijit Chavda is ridiculous, but he does claim what I just said.
Abhijit Chavda is a youtube binging conspiracy theory historian😂 He claims himself to be a physicist, thats satirical.
Impressive how he knows this without having to show why and it's always the same result supporting his prior beliefs!
@@appleeater8839he didn't say it was sanskrit he said that it can't be said definitively as to what the language was. Anyways no serious geneticist agrees with 1500bce aryan migration not even reich.
Not only "Abhijit Chavda", but whoever trying to push their 100 years old rotten theory again and again about IVC and pretending to be a historian or researcher is a ridiculous con artist include this youtuber !!...
@@anchitbose4151 Sanskrit is a 5th century BCE invention. Ardhamagadhi, Pali and prakrit predates sanskrit. Panini's inscription is written in later alphasyllabary devnagari script. How difficult do you think is for iranians to migrate to northwestern india and introduce avestan script. Ancient dravidian is close to sumerian language rather than later introduced indo-europian variety. BTW phoenicians were the first to use alphabets.
Edit:- World of antiquity has a video about indo-aryan migration theory.
Fascinating as always!
Love your content! My personal hope is that you’ll do more long form content or even a podcast! But of course it’s just my personal wish (:
My money is on Dravidian because of the big patch there in west-central Pakistan. I doubt we’ll ever truly know without a bilingual inscription though
It has to be connected to whatever they spoke in southern India those days.
I think if we look into what other civilization was flourishing in rest of the India. It will give some answers.
India is big country it's not impossible that other smaller civilization was not settled throughout the region. What about central India? What about north-east , near to China?
IVC graffiti is more close to Iran’s Elam Civilisation.
DNA also shows that IVC were Neolithic Iranian farmers who migrated into India in 3000 BC
@@zebrunstate2815 Neolithic Iranians and the AASI made up the indus valley, both components are also found in dravidians today and Im pretty sure the Telugu Velamas are the closest group to the Indus Valley in modern day based on genetic teseeting
@@plazmagaming2182 Indo-Aryans also have Neolithic Iranian and AASI component in there gene
One of the most fascinating theories about the language of IVC comes from Iravathan Mahadevan. He believe IVC is proto-proto Tamil and Tamil is the closest candidate. That position recently got support from Asko Parpola
Yes, their theory has vastly better evidence than any other put forth. Read about the homophony of "star" and "fish" in Old Tamil "min" for starters!
That's beliefs of the Aryan Dravidian colonial theory supporters without zero proof.
I'm not sure what you mean by the Aryan Dravidian colonial theory, but I'm guessing you mean the theory that Aryan people colonized Dravidian-speaking people. Sure, people who subscribe to that may or may not agree with this, but this is by no means a belief "of" theirs.
@@danielbriggs991 You don't need to act ignorant here. This is the colonial AIT/AMT supporter and promoter's beliefs as natives don't think they are not descendants of the Indus Valley who are still following the Indus Valley culture. Who worship the same Indus god of Pashupati even now.
I'm not acting ignorant, I'm truly ignorant. I don't know what AIT or AMT means, and I haven't heard of Pashupati. But I can assure you, the two researchers that libshastra mentioned have no agenda. I've read their work, they're just trying to determine the most likely language family of the seals they looked at, and they make a good case that they're in an old Dravidian or para-Dravidian language.
Lovin the new look, Doc 🙌🏻
amazing video as always
There was trade between the Indus Valley and Sumer, so some clues might exist to the Harappan language in the as-yet-untranslated cuneiform tablets that are languishing in many museums.
there are clues in the translated tablets, actually! there's a theory that one of their major trading partners to the east, that the Sumerians called Meluhha, was actually IVC
"might"
Personally I think, Dravidian hypothesis might have more things than it meets the eye
@@rockinflemingo3075the recent paper by Heggarty et al. Demolishes Steppe and Southern Arc hypothesis and proposes a hybrid model. Long story short, IVC spoke Indo European dialect(s).
Yet another set of archaeological discoveries in southern India that was contemporary to IVC and mostly independent. Dravidian hypothesis is flat earth version of IVC languages.
@@SK_ES519 The recent paper of Heggarty hasn't been critiqued and non reviewed, till it is as such, we cant even say if it is actually plausible and sane, let alone it demolishing anything at all, No indo european language artifact has ever been presented in IVC, remember that, on the other hand
Please read about the Keeladi research papers, ASI discovered markings similar to IVC were being used in Sangam age by Dravidians, it is not a debate at this point just because you want to make it one, dear friend
Seals usually denote ownership, or constitute a signature. The inscriptions are probably names. Names aren't going to help decipher anything. With so little to go on, attempts at decipherment are madness.
The only possible solution to this problem is decades of additional excavation.
Archaeology has barely scratched the surface of known deposits (about 1% of what is known to exist) so plenty of scope for more discoveries. One interesting fact recently announced was that evidence has been found that some of the traditions of building in geometric proportions were continued in succeeding civilisations. Many of the ancient religions also contain geometric puzzles for altar building. You have so many bricks and have to make certain shapes from them.
@@sharonjuniorchess One hundred years from now, only 1% will still be excavated. There is too much.
@@Carlton-B why is it that so low has been excavated? is it because there's still too much or excavations tend to be slow to start for bureaucracy reasons? i never understood why these big and important civilizations tend to have very low work done on them.
@@ramzybakhil2188 It is because there is too much to excavate. A lot of material is buried below cities, and most of that can't be reached. Also, archaeologists are using multi-disciplinary approaches, which is complex and expensive, and takes years to analyze. Nowadays, most archaeologists dig a fraction of the site, saving the rest for the future.
Some of us wish governments would expend their entire gross domestic product on digs, to make it go faster, but that is unrealistic.
@@sharonjuniorchess there is also some evidence that Hinduism borrowed elements from the IVC based on what was found in the seals.
Thanks! Always interesting!
My pleasure, and thank you!
Ancient Mysteries is my favorite series. All good additions!
As someone who is somewhat educated on the topic of linguistics, and somewhat more educated on history, my guess would be a Dravidian language, or a language from a no longer extant language family, but I couldn't speculate any further.
This is what I believe as well. Would be a fun reason for Elamite to bear some similarities to Dravidian languages and would explain the Dravidian isolate in Pakistan. But we can't know of course.
The IVC script is similar to the Proto-Elamite script and the Linear A script. Therefore, it is not a Dravidian language, nor does it have its origins from PII or PIE, in my opinion.
@@Izwat So, by the logic of script similarity, English is related to Phoenician?
@@Izwat (replying to the deleted comment)
I should note I was being sarcastic. I'm well aware that English and Phoenician aren't related, and that the similarities between our writing systems are due to the English alphabet being a direct descendent of the Phoenician abjad. My point in my sarcasm however was that there is a direct and mostly clear link between English and Phoenician to explain the similarities, a largely unbroken chain of script borrowing. Even lacking that, I could see Elamite writing being related to the ICV script, there's a fairly direct avenue of contact in the form of trade through the Persian Gulf, even if I'm not aware of any specific evidence of trade between the Harappans and the Elamites, it's plausible. However, that doesn't mean the spoken language are connected in any way beyond borrowing. Is it possible? Yes, absolutely. Do we have any evidence for it? None that I'm aware of, if you have any, feel free to enlighten me. But the real issue here is Linear A, the writing system of the Minoans. There are two writing systems much more geographically close to them, and there was no way for them to directly interact with either the Elamites or the Harappans without traveling through the territory where one or both of Egyptian hieroglyphs or Mesopotamian cuneiform were used. Given the lack of strong similarities to either of those writing systems, in form if not in structure, it is far more likely that, if borrowing was done, they borrowed the concept of writing from one or both of those civilizations and developed their own script. Or possibly, invented writing entirely independently. We know for absolute certainty that writing had to be invented independently a _bare minimum_ of two times, and things that are independently invented twice are rarely only invented twice, more likely to me is that writing was independently invented in Mesopotamia, China, Egypt, India, and Mesoamerica, and probably more places besides. Finally, all three of these writing systems being logographic doesn't set them apart in any way from the other writing systems in the time or vicinity. Cuneiform was pictographic, hieroglyphs were logographic, Chinese writing was and is logographic, as were the guaranteed to be unrelated writing systems of Mesoamerica. Harappan already having developed into a logosyllabary is unusual for the apparent age of the script, indicating it was possibly either already old, or had been borrowed from another civilization that likely spoke an unrelated or distantly related language, on the other hand, syllabaries are the most numerous type of writing system in the world, so they might have just been ahead of the curve on the trend towards them.
@@Izwat Some scholars though have sought to link Elamite with the Dravidian family, forming a larger group encompassing all these attested languages. This has not been widely accepted by linguists, with Elamite still generally held to be a language isolate.
I love the channel. Thank you for addressing the Indus Vally Civilization and the prevailing linguistic theory. Fascinating stuff.
And thank you!
another wicked one bro. u da man.
Superb. Thanks.
I watched a video of History with Cy, where a translator of the language of Meluhha in Mesopotamia is mentioned in Cuneiform script.
The Harappan seals are really beautiful. I wonder if there is some kind of connection with other scripts like linear Elamite or linear A
Damn, bro, that was tight. Excellent flow and timing. Answered the question as well as possible and in only 13:35!
Very good, thank you.
I would imagine deciphering languages would work like solving codes / ciphers. Typically, a big part of that process is identifying a word you would expect to see. For example, the teachers who broke the first Zodiac cipher did it by trying to find the word "kill", because that's what The Zodiac was known for doing. I've heard the IVC is thought to be more egalitarian than most. Have linguists identified a word to look for? I think the choice is generally "king" in less egalitarian societies.
the thing about ciphers is that… they’re ciphers. They’re in an already existing and known written language. You wouldn’t be able to “decode” an unknown script by looking for a word because you wouldn’t know what the words are in the first place - and in this case, we don’t even know the spoken language that the script records.
@@luckyblockyoshi: Georg Friedrich Grotefend deciphered ancient Persian cunieform by assuming inscriptions on monuments would have the term "king of kings" early in the text.
@@scottyoung4226 That's only because the contents of the inscriptions he studied could be extrapolated from other inscriptions in other languages that had been deciphered already (including the phrase "king of kings") and known history recorded in other languages. He still did not fully decipher the cuneiform, only some words and names based on later writings with similar content (and only the phonetical values of 8 out of 30 signs were correctly identified).
We don't even know what language the Harappan script recorded, let alone what phrases or names might have been recorded in them.
If it were that simple I'm sure it would've been done already.
Infact, I think the inscriptions were gender pronouns worn by each person. So yeah. I'd say that they were very egalitarian. It's just that the pink hair are not shown in the tablets.
I sort of agree with 11:24. We use many of those IVC symbols in our religious ceremonies even today - for example, Swastika, chakra, Padma, shankha, Ganapathi Mandala,Trikona mandala, Ganda berunda, Mayura, tilak, tripundra, ardha chandra, poorna chandra, Ashwatha leaf, matsya etc. They are not letters. Each symbol represents something that needs elaborate explanation. There was no writing in IVC, that's why Vedas were passed down orally.
Same thought
Fascinating topic, Thank you so much. Interestingly similar to IVC script found in dravidian (atleast 2600 years old Keezhadi civilization excavation) connects possiblity of IVC and dravidian languages.
Thanks!
The IVC script is so exciting! And I really do believe, given the strong evidence of interaction and even MIGRATION btwn the IVC and Mesopotamia, that we have the chance of finding a rosetta stone for it someday. We just gotta keep on diggin!
It's fascinating to think about how much we don't know!! 🤩
Today, there is only one language family in Northwestern India, Sanskrit. So the language of 'IVC' in the Bronze Age too must have been Sanskrit.
If anyone wishes to propose that the language of 'IVC' is any other language, they need to produce strong evidence to support their view.
'IVC' is the largest of the Bronze Age civilizations, area over 1 million sq km, population 5 million.
Mesopotamia population was just 2.5 million, Egypt was 1.5 million.
So 'IVC' was bigger than Mesopotamia and Egypt put together.
So the language of 'IVC' could not have just disappeared from that area.
Any inward migration would not have been large enough to replace or overwhelm the 'IVC' population.
There is no evidence of a sudden collapse or mass deaths, etc.
The evidence is of a gradual decline from 1,900 to 1,700 BCE,
with no evidence of any inward migration of any new people, language, or culture.
Logically why would a new people migrate into an area that is being abandoned by the previous occupiers?
How could any new settlers thrive and develop a great language like Sanskrit and compose the Vedas in an area that had been abandoned by the previous inhabitants, perhaps due to a prolonged drought of 200 years.
Today the languages in the 'IVC' area are Punjabi, Haryanvi, Sindhi, Marwari, Shekhawati, Gujarati, etc.
All these are Sanskrit family languages.
So language of 'IVC' too must have been Sanskrit.
'IVC' used to trade with Mesopotamia, from 2,600 to 1,900 BCE.
Today the best businessmen in India are Marwaris, Sindhis and Gujaratis.
So it appears that they are keeping alive a 4,000 to 4,600 year old tradition.
I am from Pakistan. The language on these seals is a proto version of Brahui, a language though classified as "Dravidian" is not like standard Dravidian found in India but instead has deep shared roots (grammatical, lexical and phonetic) with Elamite, the pre-Aryan language of Iran. Brahui is still spoken in Pakistan is the Belu(ch)istan province which is even named by Meluha, the original name of the Indus Valley Civilization. The word Brahui appears to be an allomorph of the word Beluhi which prior to the M to B sound transition which occurs in Brahui, can be reconstructed to Meluha which is the Indus Valley civliization. Thus since Brahui, though classified as "dravidian" appears to never have entered peninsular India, and instead has lexical, grammatical, and phonetic connections with Elamite, Brahui appears to be the obvious and only candidate for the Harappan language. The Indo-Iranian language speakers with whom the Brahuis have affinity with, namely the Beluchi and southern persian populations are also themselves appropriated Dravidians i.e "neolithic Iranians" which are Iranians without admixture of the Anatolian genetic cluster that enters the Iranian population after 6000 BC. The southernmost Persians, Beluch and Brahui were able to largely avoid this admixture. Aliso, its worth noting that the name "Beluchi" (the appears to be a modified, yet more archaic version of the word Brahui), and the Beluch language is actually descended from the Parthian language.
Small correction to what you said at 06:48: The 22 official languages that you mentioned are not for South Asia as a whole, but just for India. Furthermore, today's India has *23* official languages for the Central (Federal) government, not 22.
If you add the official languages of the other countries that make up South Asia- Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka-the number goes up to 26. Or 28, if you include Afghanistan. And more than 123 if you take Article 6 of the Nepalese constitution literally: _"All native languages spoken in Nepal are National languages of Nepal."_
I firmly believe you're in error on this.
The Republic of India has 2 Official Languages English and Hindi. The remaining are considered recognised languages mostly utilised by the denizens of respective states and communities.
Needless to say, there are minority sects whose languages are not represented perhaps owing to the lack of abundant speakers.
As for official language, 2.
Not sure hpw much difference there is to scheduled languages and official proper but 23 are named as scheduled languages officially if that makes any difference 😊😊
@@bladerize It's unfortunate that you think so. Now it's true that Hindi and English have special roles in the functioning of the Central Government. But the 8th Schedule of the Indian Constitution lists Hindi plus 21 other languages, and entrusts the Central Government with certain responsibilities regarding those languages. All these 23 languages are, therefore, official languages of the Central Government. It's not a matter of opinion, and it's not up for debate. It's right there in the Constitution.
Speaking of States and Union Territories: Each of the 28 States and 8 Union Territories has separately and independently legislated official languages for its own use. They are not required to use English, Hindi, or any of the 8th Schedule languages as their official languages. Some of them do, but many of them don't. These regional official languages add up to 51. That includes 22 of the 23 official languages of the Central Government.
So overall, there are 52 official languages in India-but not every government uses every language.
Thank you for the clarification.
@@nHans You seem to have severely conflated official languages with scheduled languages. Also I fail to grasp how any of this is unfortunate, perhaps your peremptory attempt at being condescending.
Additionally the 8th schedule is, as of now a list of 22 regional or recognised languages including Hindi. There's no indication of it being otherwise as per any article.
Please research before typing another verbiage.
Fantastic!
Thank you 🙏🏽.
You can only fully apreciate Harappan seals if you read them in the klingon original 🖖
well the civilization is still considerered "peaceful" - no fortifications nor weapons found. = a renegade klingon group.
@@jorgegonzalez-larramendi5491 probably some sort of Molor worshiping dissident cult.
@@jorgegonzalez-larramendi5491 that's old view and very misleading. That's what made peoples think about Aryan invasion theory. It's completely baseless. We have records of Troops from meluha (Maybe ivc) being defeated by some empire. These troops were send to protect their neighbours from invasion.
Q'apla!
I've been using Babbel to learn Russian. Sadly, they don't have Harrapan (yet)
Babel or duolingo or rosetta stone....best one?? Any input plz..
@@mmeettwwoo memrise is also very good
Oooh yes! Excellent subject matter 👍😊
Another option would be that it is not closely related to any modern language from the region. For comparison plenty of the languages of Mesopotamia, such as: Elamite, Hurrian, Kassite and Sumerian have no living relatives.
Urartian is a later cognate with Hurrian.
In a booklet I am interested to publish soon I am sure a final solution to the riddle of Indus language will be found.
There is a script from Mesopotamian person saying that they were a translator from what they think is Indus Valley civilization. Implying that they trained people to learn the language to trade with them. Wouldn’t that be great if made a Rosetta Stone to train people in that language!
These things might have existed. But floods might have destroyed them. It reminds of patliputra(east india in later timeline). It was destroyed too. Ivc was right next to Himalayas. Vedas(later period) mention of flood. maybe this was something occasional until Saraswati dried up.
There are also isolate languages in the Indian subcontinent: Nihali, Burushaski, etc
Nice video
Small request: there's a video - an ancient communist utopia, it talks about whether IVC was a peaceful civilization or not, if you react to that video or make a video on this video that would be interesting
Thanks
D'oh. "Indus Valley Girl Speak", obviously.
Greetings from Pakistan. There are 74 languages spoken today and most people speak at least 3 languages each. Also the dialects are so varied they are almost languages. In my city we have 4 languages. At the border areas where one language joins another sort of pigeon languages form. For example I use Urdu, Pashto and Punjabi words all mixed together in a single sentence and people understand what I'm saying. After looking at cylinder seals in museums and seeing Sumerian ones in Istanbul museum I think there is a distinct similarity. Even the sizes seem the same.
You Have Nothing To Do With Harappan It Is Belongs To India And Indian Culture, Go Find Your Root's On Turk, Chinese, Arab, Afghan And Now Day's America !✌️
@@greatkaafir7478andhbhakt
Greetings from a fellow Pakistani.
Please do more videos like this. I miss these type of videos, just you and the camera.
Awesome video Dr Miano💜🕊
About 100 years ago a British professor who spent a lot of time in India wrote a book in which he translated several of the seals in a very convincing manner. His work was dismissed for mostly political reasons, but he footnoted all his sources and most of his critics could not counter his translations except to cite political reasons for why they had to be wrong. It makes the search to "discover" that language amusing to me.
The reasons why a proposed decipherment are not accepted by the world’s scholars were given in the video.
@@WorldofAntiquity I believe the work has already been done, including syllables for almost all the symbols used in the seal script. You can believe the other scholars if you'd like that it hasn't been done.
@@jamesfortune243name?
@@ayyy9701 L.A. Waddell
@@ayyy9701 Ironically, the swastika used by the Germans representing the setting sun was used as a hieroglyph for the U.K.
I would also love for you to do a video on the claims of a possible connection between the Indus Valley scripts and Rongorongo from Rapa Nui. Just how similar are they? Has this already been looked into in detail?
You do a fantastic job of covering these more nuanced and sometimes argued-over topics. Thank You.
Rongorongo seems to be a local invention, as far as I know. Why would there be any connection between RR and the IVC script? There are thousands of kilometers and years separating them
whoever is claiming that knows very little about history or linguistics. rapa nui was settled first a thousands of years after the harrappan civilization was gone.
@@pawel198812bro if those people's can build so Cool planned cities then it's not har for them to reach Easter island either lol ! Already known fact that these guys already used to trade alot !
@@svanimation8969 My main objection would be the lack of transitional scripts in the Polynesian triangle, the Philippines, Taiwan etc. Rapa Nui's settlement is estimated to have happened between 800 and 1200 AD. If Rongorongo were related to other scripts, we should something similar to it in the places I've mentioned. We don't. Therfore, it is most likely an independent invention
A sensible and unbiased presentation.
Thanks for the video. I wonder, could you make one about Jiroft? .
Maybe there's another possibility: The short inscriptions represent personal names, but the names are drawn from multiple different languages.
I'm not sure I fully understand why some regularity or clustering of symbols disproves the argument that they carry no linguistic data. Why would a "purely symbolic" system lack organized syntax? After all, if each symbol carries some meaning (as symbols do), then ordering them is pretty reasonable, regardless of what that meaning is. The way Emojis are used in present are not "truly random", even though emojis carry no phonetic or other "linguistic" data. Which gets to the next question: how do we know this writing system actually carries linguistic data (as in. spells out words instead of giving them wholesale)? What analysis has allowed the conclusion to be made that this is likely a syllabary?
@revilo178 See, this is my problem though. The latin alphabet and its derivatives are almost always just 30 characters or less; Cyrillic has 33. Tamil, an abugida, uses 31 combinational bases. All these might be explained by common ancestor, but even beyond Phoenician-derived systems, if a script records sounds, it tends not to use many more characters than needed to capture a base sound library; these can then be modified, either, by adding an extra symbol to the sign (ሀ -> ሁ in Ge'ez), or through "combos", as we do in English for "c+h" = "ch".
examples:
Katakana, syllabary, under 50
Linear B, syllabary, 65 confirmed
Cherokee, syllabary, 85
Meroitic, abugida, 23 base
Ge'ez, abugida form, 32 base
Ge'ez, abjad form (deprecated), 26 base
Even Maya "hieroglyphs", absurdly detailed and numerous though they are, only had about 150 phonetic base-glyphs at any time, and many were redundant but chosen for style. Egyptian Hieroglyphs are a bit of an exception, but this is in part because:
1. they are based in visual representations of things (compare to the more 'abstracted' demotic - less than 80 known characters, or aforementioned Meroitic)
2. they were in use for some 3000+ years.
The IPA, intended to capture pretty much every phonetic sound we make, only has 107 chars in its alphabet.
All of this to say, that if there are "hundreds" of Indus Valley Characters, an alarming number obscure, how am I supposed to conclude these mapped onto sounds? Why are there so many in just about 1500 years? Even if multiple languages were spoken in the Indus Valley, surely they would've all generally based themselves on a similar character-sound cognate system. 2000 years later, our latin characters are _still_ very similar to phoenician equivalents!
What relationship between these characters (aside from a 'lack of disorder", which, as I said, does not satisfy my skepticism) is justifying this assertion? Is there a discernable pattern for ordering their variation? Consistent means of modification which tracks to surrounding contextual information (say, a character often has this modification when near this character, though that could have other explanations)... Perhaps that info would allow us to lower the number of "characters" in the "script" to a more manageable amount which, then, can be argued to follow some rule of modification/modality. Similarly vague systems, like Rongorongo, are oft. ruled "unlikely" to be scripts, and Rongorongo has a much more reasonable (to me) number of clearly distinct characters...
Another concern is this: it's just hard for me to accept that a society with a "proper script" (by which i mean, a writing system that can be used to represent the words / sounds of a full language) then only used it for such short texts. Rongorongo "texts" can give us multiple pages of content! It has dedicated tablets! Our longest "text" from the Indus Valley is about 30 characters. The system seems to be mostly for items, temples, seals, tools, etc, so I suppose my question then becomes: with such limited use-cases, would it have necessarily needed to represent a full dialect/language? We know that Kerma (in Sudan) developed a sealing system of some sort, which communicated things of value without being a language-encompassing script. Other examples from Africa might include Nsibidi, though since that's restricted to 'secret societies' it's hard to get more information on it, Akan symbols that seem to have had numeric value, and some sort of inscription system I've heard of from jenne-jenno. Even in Egypt, hieroglyphs were probably picto/logographic for a while before they were used for linguistic purposes...
also, I'll add Chinese is *not* ideographic. It is a mixed pictographic, logographic, phonetic (mono/multi-syllabic & word-match/rebus) system that often simplifies symbols and then repurposes them; the majority (so far as I can tell) of Chinese terms use compound-symbols comprised of concept-indicators and pronunciation guides that are supposed to match the pronunciation of the word in question. 4000 years of use, however, mean a lot of the pronunciation guides are useless etc, so lots of the compound symbols are pure logograms. This process, plus the repurposing of these symbols, PLUS the frequent simplification of symbols, makes it hard for me to figure out how many "base characters" exist in Chinese.
@revilo178 Lin b is clearly derived from Lin a, correct? I admittedly don't know too much about the use of Lin a, so I may just be kicking the can down, but the derivative nature of Lin b makes it easier to understand as a highly stratified & restricted script, because it wasn't fully developed for that purpose but adopted and modifed over time for a select class/group of people, from the script of the decrepit Minoans.
I'll also add that I'm not intending to claim one side is 'right' or 'wrong' on the issue. Something definitely is strange here and hard to make a conclusion on. I just don't get really why an option is being ruled out yet.
@revilo178 But the context of the seals (eg. for trade ledgers) could easily limit the number of symbols we know of, so logograms still seems possible. Several hundred symbols would make a pretty big syllabary, even for (say) a Caucasian language with loads of consonants. And many of the symbols look like pictures of things. Maybe hybrid?
This is now my fav series.
Thank you.
Have you learned about the recent archeological excavation site of Keezhladi in South India? They have found new types of inscriptions. Which have some relation to the Indus Inscriptions.
In India, the central government is only interested in Vedic culture related archeological evidence.
They mostly ignore the Dravidian culture-related archeological evidence.
Will you try to unravel the relationship between Indus civilization and Dravidian culture?
Yes, almost similar inscriptions
IVC graffiti is more close to Iran’s Elam Civilisation.
DNA also shows that IVC were Neolithic Iranian farmers who migrated into India in 3000 BC
Iranian framers mingled with indigenous people of the sub continent. And their DNA match is not 100%. They're just part of IVC people development. We can't give them full credit.
@@santakillsand6685 what is the source to say that there is no 💯 dna 🧬 match. As per latest findings IVC were Iranian farmers of Elam civilisation in Iran 🇮🇷
I sometimes wonder how archeologists 10,000 years in the future, after we are long gone, will interpret our world. What would they make of corporate logos? Would they be able to decipher many of our cultural pieces. Suppose they find a cell phone and are able to extract data off of it, I'd genuinely be curious what they would think if they found someone's meme collection on there.
The data in a cell phone would be gone entirely. The actual storage is charge-based, which leaks out with time (in the blink of an eye in a 10,000 years perspective). Heck, even those backup CDs I burned from my computer years ago lost their content in as short time as a year, sometimes.
@@tohaason so it means most of our world would not make sense to them? If in case due to some reason the civilization of the whole planet goes through a catastrophe and our technology creases to exist. Those cds phones or anything we use today would not make sense to the archeologist of the future maybe it's same for the makers of world wonders such as pyramids, may there were several such civilizations with similar technology as ours which got destroyed due to some causes ? May be humans made such scientific advanced in past many times and in many different ways and in many different languages.
@@crimsonrain9570 I'm sure there would be lots of traces of artifacts, but I'm worried about written context - what we use now isn't exactly durable, unlike clay tablets.
We will probably start to durably store our data in this century. Future Archaeologists will have a very easy time studying our era.
Ah, you see, they spoke - *comically loud truck passes by, drowning out my words*
Thanks
I'm guessing it wasn't Atlantean.
Maybe valley girl?
For once there is no chance that Atlanteans had anything to do with these guys.
Being from Pakistan from the city of Lahore this subject has always fascinated me.. I don't think they spoke any major language families of modern Indian Subcontinent. While all sort of nationalists love to associate Indus Valley people with them but the truth is no and its far more complex.... I think if we can have any clue about who IVC people were then that's probably from the brief mention of Meluhha by the Sumerians. We have archeological evidence that they traded with the Mespotamians so the Meluhha were most probably them.
I think I read somewhere that Meluhha could be a Sumerian rendition of "Mel-Akam", and that this could mean "High Abode" in a Dravidian language. I personally know nothing about that language family though.
@@AllahuSnackbar270and how did the author reach this extraordinary conclusion?
@@anchitbose4151 I'm not a Dravidian linguist or speaker, so I can't answer for that. Asko Parpola is the scholar's name. I just thought it was interesting, because it sounds reasonable. Meluhha turning into Mleccha in Sanskrit isn't much of a leap in my view, because we have no idea what the phonology of the IVC language was like. We do know foreign place names are usually garbled in ancient texts. The Hittites called the Achaeans "Ahhiyawa", while the Egyptians called the Minoans "kftw", and the Minoans were also called "Kaptara" in Akkadian (we have no idea what the Minoans called themselves).
Minoans might as well have called themselves something crazy like "Kapftuteira" in their own language, but just like with Meluhha/Mleccha, we would never be able to conclusively prove such a reconstructed name without textual evidence. We shouldn't expect such proof, but we can entertain possibilities.
@@AllahuSnackbar270 Asko himself moved away from teh Alamite position. He now thinks IVC is likely a Dravidian language like proto Proto Tamil.
@@libshastra I've never heard about "Alamite", can you explain more?
Huge respect sir ! Wish if I could be your assistant !
Thanks. This was very fair commenting and explanation without any political affiliations. Any community that had some form of writing, could have been carried by at least a few of them. Unless something of a very drastic calamity or pressure from conquest may have been the reason to have the scripts completely lost without trace. Hope one day some light is thrown on this ancient script.
That’s fascinating that scientists are using AI to decipher the codes in ancient extinct languages because it has crossed my mind if that’s even possible. How great would that be if it worked!!?
There is a great scifi/horror movie in that idea somewhere....
@@butterfacemcgillicutty how so
AI can help to identify language patter like in English after Q world u always come after QU world some world are always repeat like R, E, A etc only few world are used so you can use AI to find pattern in ancient language
You can able to get or get a glimpse Indus valley civilization's SEAL is in current Temples in Tamilnadu, India.
Lol! Fake nonsense propaganda story...
Fake
gud work soldier. thank you for your service
Thanks prof 🤙🤙🙂
And thank you!
I think the language was related to Dravidian, even if it wasn't Dravidian. Possibly part of a larger Elamo-Dravidian family
Some languages like Marathi is considered indo-european has hints of dravidian substrata...
Example. The word of Mother in marathi is Aai. and not Ma. Or Matey...
This indicates people of Maharashtra spoke some form of dravidian before adopting Indo-European based marathi
Yep i also think it is
present day Dravidian language is mixed with Sanskrit so its nothing similar to what ivc spoke
I do think Brahui is the key to crack the IVC language...the reason Brahui sounds similar to Iranian language now, is because of its isolation from other Dravidian language and thousands of years of cohabitation with the Iranian and other indo European and turkic language of the region and also islamisation. But, I have seen the comments of people from South Indian when they listen to the language and they do identify the tonality and othe nuances of the language with their own. Everything suggests that the Aryans replaced the IVC PPL and they probably migrated to the south...the isolation of Brahui still present in that region indicates that a single group of PPL somehow survived...and if they had survived there , that means they and other similar group of PPL were the original habitants there...and we don't know of any other group of PPL living in the region...so they probably are the remains of Original IVC PPL.
We need to find more. I want to learn about these people so bad. What we do know so far is utterly fascinating. There has to be more to find out there somewhere.
Unfortunately, We can't. The artifacts that we currently have are not sufficient to learn more about them, most of the artifacts were unfortunately destroyed by the invaders. I am from India and even in India, we just make speculations about them. NO solid proof.
well this isn't going to be controversial at all! #2 comment :)
My family has lived along the Indus river in Pakistan for many generations. We have to wait until we have academic consensus on decipherment of Harrappan seals. I feels that the Hindutva supporters in India for political reasons presuppose the culture of Harappans that fits their narrative.
In Hindu scriptures huge amount of description is present about early Indian civilization. It would be more appropriate to understand the Saraswati civilization by the lens of early Hindu information we have rather than looking in to the people who got converted and now follow the barren sand desert culture.
@@blackksheepp most people were willingly converted and what is "desert culture"?
Islam is for all of mankind, calling it "desert culture" is grossly misrepresenting facts.
Also how is he wrong? Hindutvas are quick to jump to certain conclusions as if the whole world revolves around them. You can literally find them everywhere.
@@jostnamane3951 willingly 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣....then why they don't convert now when there aren't terror¡sst islamic ruler ruling over the foreign land anymore?
If you don't know, Islam is born out of desert and should be limited to there only, don't spread Islam and do desertification of green fertile land, limit it to the deserts only.
The people who do quickly jumped to the conclusion and called earth immovable, flat planet in the centre of the universe 🤣🤣🤣 shouldn't blame others.
@@blackksheeppIf Hindu scripture has all the information about ancient India than why is there no translatable scriture written in Indus Valley Script? Why are there no carvings with both IVC and Sanskrit or Prakrit side by side?
@@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886 i didn't said all the information idiot. All the information can't be recorded.
It is never easy to decipher something which is 5k years old. We probably could have if the jihadist islamic terroπ!$t wouldn't have destroyed the library, sculpture infact whole country.
What evidence is there for writing between the collapse of the Indus Valley Civilization c. 1900 BCE and the first appearance of Brahmi (3rd century BCE)?? What writings (texts) in what languages appear in this date range? That is, what texts do we have in this date range in what languages? For example, although Vedic Sanskrit and Classical Sanskrit were spoken, there are no texts written and preserved in Sanskrit.
In addition, has anyone done work comparing Vedic Sanskrit or Classical Sanskrit to Avestan (old Persian)? The word ‘gatha’ (which exists also in Vedic Sanskrit) is variously rendered as ‘hymn’, ‘poem’, or ‘psalm’. Many words bear a close resemblance. Both religions refer to a sacred utterance or hymn as a Mantra (Rig Veda) or Matra (Avesta) and to a ritual drink as Soma (Rig Veda) or Haoma (Avesta). Both texts use almost the exact same terms for a member of a religious sodality (Aryaman in the Rig Veda and Airyaman in the Gathas), for sacrifice or worship (yajna in the Rig Veda and yasna in the Gathas), and for a fire priest (Atharvan in the Rig Veda and Athaurvan in the Gathas), fire being a sacred symbol in both religions. Indeed, speakers of both language subgroups used the same word to refer to themselves as a people: Vedic Sanskrit arya and Avestan/Old Persian ariya. Both words “a-ve-sta” (from the Old Persian abasta, meaning “the law”) and “ve-da” (insight, wisdom) are derived from the same root: “Vid” to know, to gain knowledge, to comprehend. This word “Vae-da” also appears at Yasna 28.10 and 31.2 as knowledge and pertains to “sacred knowledge” or “ritual knowledge”. Similarly the term “Avesta” is called “Upastha” in Vedic Sanskrit, meaning collection of mantras, or sacred utterances.
Amazing video! I think when it comes to the Harappan language, linguistic evidence is very strong in favor of Dravidian. We know for instance that pre-Sanskrit languages would not have possessed retroflex consonants, maybe including early so-called "Vedic Sanskrit", but these are iconic areal features of the Indic languages today. They were almost certainly borrowed from Dravidian languages (reconstructions of proto-Dravidian do retain retroflex consonants).
There are many other such borrowings, including words for urban structures, which further suggests the speakers were urbanized (the Indo-Aryans, having nomadic roots, had no native words for these things). Many other vocabulary loans and grammatical ones too. No other unrelated language family of South Asia, nor any known language isolate or extinct language, has had such a tremendous impact on Indo-Aryan languages; Dravidian has made them very distinct from other IE languages in general.
The evidence lines up genetically and even culturally/religiously; there are many aspects of modern Indic people which reflect a Dravidian Harappan heritage. It's fascinating to think of, because for a long time, in my life time (as a kid), IVC was always portrayed as this very enigmatic and little-known civilization that kind of cropped up a long time ago, lasted a while, then vanished and was just totally replaced by IE peoples and culture. It survived in so much bigger a way than we could have ever imagined. It makes sense; it was the largest civilization on Earth at its peak, both in size and population. Those don't just disappear! Thanks for this thought-provoking video
Aryan invasion theory is nonsense based on imaginative linguistic connections. There is much stronger evidence which anti Hindu historians ignore. Indian civilisation is the mother of all knowledge end of story. Go to sleep now.
Not true at all. Retroflex consonants are features of Indo-European Sanskrit!
@@Mrityormokshiya analyse linguistic theories as much as you want while ignoring Sanskrit works which were passed orally for millenia! What is the Dravidian equivalent?
Aryan theory has been conclusively disproven by a number of academics now!
@@Mrityormokshiya Of course Sanskrit has retroflex consonants, but they are not indigenous to the Indo-Iranian languages. Reconstructed Proto-Indo-Iranian does not have them, for example. They were borrowed from the Dravidian languages
@@amrishb4793 We know that the oldest Vedic texts today (for example old verses of the Rgveda) are not the same as they would have been when written up to 3700 (!) years ago; they reflect Vedic Sanskrit, which is a haphazard collection of old dialects predating Classical Sanskrit, when grammarians like Panini formalized its "rules" in writing.
Before that, all Sanskrit texts that were passed down orally reflect the time when their pronunciations became "stuck"; through increasing sophistication of memory techniques and linguistic study, there came a point when the pronunciation stopped becoming as distorted. But this is long after they were first composed.
I don't know how people deny the movement of Indo-European peoples into South Asia. At one point South Asia had nobody in it at all and people moved there, ultimately, from Africa. People populated Europe time after time from the Middle East. It isn't a shame and doesn't erase anyone's history; it's a part of your history. Linguistics, genetics, archaeology, comparative religion, and other cultural elements all prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Indo-European peoples migrated to South Asia sometime around 3500 years ago.
Bahata Anshumali Maukhopadhyay derived a grammar for the Indus script. She found that some signs occur at the beginning of a sentence and some signs occur at the end, and some signs occur in pairs. I think that her work is quite convincing, but it doesn't reveal a language family.
I have been very impressed by Steve Bonta's work which separated out the numerals from what appear to be names & titles and then managed to identify what a number of these symbols meant after 30 years of painstaking research. According to him this appears to be an early form of Sanskrit.
We might know ONE word from the Indus Valley Civilization that might prove that they spoke a Dravidian language.
The thing is that the Indus Valley civilization exported sesame to Mesopotamia, where it was known as "ilu" in Sumerian and "ellu" in Akkadian. Compare this to the Southern Dravidian Kannada "eḷḷu" and Tamil "eḷ" - "sesame". And we know it's a loanword in Mespotamia as sesame originated in South Asia and was new to Mesopotamia at the time.
This is probably as good as evidence for a Indus valley language you are gonna get. Not the best, not conclusive, and just ONE very short word. But it's still something.
Then there's the other word Mleccha which means something like "barbarian" in Sanskrit but might have originally was the ethnic name for the "Harappans" as Mleccha does not have an Indo-European etymology, scholars infer that it must have been a self-designation of a non-Aryan people within India.
Based on the geographic references to the Mleccha deśa (Mleccha country) to the west, the term is identified with the Indus people, whose land is known from the Sumerian texts as Meluḫḫa. Still this term is even more mysterious, a few Dravidian etymologies has been proposed but it's not as clear cut as the ilu / ellu example.
@@Carloshache Proof for your claim that the word mleccha means harappans? so harappans called themselves as mleccha? Still drunk with fake Aryan invasion theory?
That word is used for non-Indians, not against any Indians. No proof in any Indian literature, you still can't give up the divide-and-rule habit right? You people will never change.
That's very interesting. Sesame is also referred to as El in Malayalam
Idk why but I got indus valley civilization genetics
@@johneli495 Malayalam is a Sanskrit/Tamil hybrid language, so it makes sense
Proto Tamil is the language spoken by Indus valley people
No man... even tamil scholars don't accept that
IVC graffiti is more close to Iran’s Elam Civilisation.
DNA also shows that IVC were Neolithic Iranian farmers who migrated into India in 3000 BC
Professor Miano rocking the Robert Smith look today.
Great video, thanks David. Do you think AI will advance to the point where it will solve this eventually? Also, I did a course a few years back with the Great Courses, and it was suggested that the IVC show no evidence at all of a heirarchical society. It was posited that it was unlikely that it wasn't given the very unequal histories of all other civilisations, but it was interesting that it couldn't be ascertained from the buildings at all. Is that still the case, or have evidences of heirarchy been found now?
But there have been. I don't remember details clearly but there is a fortified citadal and down a lower settlement found.
It has to be a Dravidian language. There's about 180 dialects of Dravidian language. Take your picks.
🤷♂️😊
Dravidian "language" is just incoherent babbling
It's very possible that the signs on the seals encode a Dravidian language, but there just is not enough concrete evidence at present to confirm that.
@@barrymoore4470everything is possible. Don't dwell on possibilities
@@anchitbose4151 Unfortunately, sometimes they are all we can go on.
@@barrymoore4470 go for the one which has more evidence instead of wishful thinking
Thanks for narrating the truth(closest to) about the Harappan civilization. In india, Hindu extremists and the ruling religious establishment have been spreading all sorts of propaganda laced lies on this matter. The national museum in Delhi has the section 'Sindhu-Saraswati' civilization!! They basically wish to make their 1812 AD "Hinduism" to be more ancient due to ever present inferiority complex. By hijacking Harappans, they can mimick the Chinese by saying 'we wuz kaaaangz for 5000 years' and oppress other nations of India.
Calling the civilization Sindhu - Sarasvati doesn't make it hindu
It actually do have point. For instance rig Veda talks intensely about sarswati river which is in between indus and Yamuna. And the geographical area mentioned in rig Veda matches with Indus valley. Along with swastikas, many bathing pounds, Shiva linga and fire ceremony pits etc found in indus valley So this is not completely pointless.
@@roh-mj6em yeah there is a possibility of a supposed river called Sarasvati
@@roh-mj6em
There are no Shiva linga or Rig Veda connection as Hindus claim. The syncretic god of Shiva evolved much later in the Medieval period.
@@ashwinvk4124
What happened to that river? Just vaporised?
What's also really needed are a couple of Proper Names, like a cpl of kings, merchants, etc. Surely such must be lurking somewhere in Babylonian/Elamite/Shang-dynasty archives? That at least wld suggest the language family?
¡Gracias!
And thank you!
i was shocked for a second
First(!)ly, I believe it's an Indo-European language.
This is not a helpful comment.
Indus Valley Civilization of Pakistan ❤🇵🇰 Mehrgarh, Harappa, Mohanjo-Daro and the Indus Valley are all part of the Pakistani soil and the history of the Pakistani people 🫡🇵🇰 Indians trying very hard to highjack other countries history 😂
India also has many cities
There is nothing to hyjack from pakistan lol
He's saying that indian keyboard warriors usually bark that this is their civilization and Pakistan has nothing to do with it@@user-uj2tk2tv3z
You are ROCKING that mad-scientist hairdo!
I viewed your stuff on the Sumerians and on the Indus Valley. I am interested in Dilmon (sp?), which was on what is now the coast of Kuwait and Arabia, and Bahrain Island which was its cemetary. It is known from Mesopotamian writings and had religious significance to them and to the Sumerians, and also dominated trade between them and the Indus Valley. Has anything been learned about Dilmon?
I think E von Achalm has opened a new door to explain the abscence of an independent Yamna language.Platycepalic individuals missing both cerebral hemisphere are supposedly unable to understand and speek any language.This explains the abscence of genuine traces of a language in the Yamna cultural circle.
I am from south part of india........and i recommend u to Just Stop with the myth that indo aryan language came from outside of the indian subcontinent.......there is no divide of so called indo aryan and dravidian language.....its the british that created that difference.......all our north and south languages basic alphabets starts with......ka kaa ga gaa na(like ABCDE...).
Dude.. this is a channel run by someone scientific temper. There have been many conclusive studies on genetics of South East Asian people and some Co relation with linguistic studies. Don’t pester this guy plz.
@@AnirimaGhoshhe's not wrong till a certain extend and probably who got too carried away by the dogma of scientific temperament, in modern times indo aryan and indo Dravidian divide doesn't carry much weight because both of the language groups in South Asia have a lot of loanwords practically making them a hybrid of two
Even the ancient Greeks when they invaded India. They notice difference of north and South India. There is a book