Thanks for the playthrough, it's inspired me to sell my copy. It's too much work to enjoy, and I'd never play a game without making multiple rules mistakes.
Hahaha, well, happy to inspire in either direction ;) I enjoy the flow and the heavy thinkiness, but I've also played 5 games in the series now so it doesn't feel like too much of a rules lift to learn one more.
It's a shame though. I know it's complicated, and I admit it doesn't hit the table often, but it's definitely a flawed masterpiece. I'm glad I own it; it's like a documentary of the Vietnam War in a board game.
@@Emsworth377 I personally wouldn't call it "flawed". My description would be "pretty tough to run solo". Multiplayer is great once people figure out what the heck they are doing ;)
@@OneStopCoopShop of the COIN games you’ve played, which are better for solo? And before I watch this whole playthrough, how much harder is this game to run solo Vs the Wakhan in Pax Pamir? I love LOVE Pamir and and trying very hard to figure out what’s next for me. I’m interested in a war game, interested in the war in Vietnam, but unsure if this will make my brain explode. (I would likely start with one of the easier COIN games and not go straight to this one.)
“Better for solo” depends on what you are looking for. Easier to run, more conflict focused, more dynamic, etc. But all of them are much heavier than wakhan, because it’s a more complex system to begin with, and because you are running 3 AI instead of only 1. I personal enjoy pax pamir more because it’s a much smoother play, but these can be great too
@@OneStopCoopShop "Sovereign of Discord" is more like a "prequel": starting from 1961 as opposed to "Fall of Saigon" which happens after the base game (aka "sequel"). There is a long scenario combining both expansions and the base game but I don't think I'm insane enough for that. The full scenario in the base game is already long.
Thanks for the review. I bought the game but haven't played yet. Though people rave about it, it does look a bit too complicated to be enjoyed. We have to focus on the rules rather than enjoying the game... Not sure. Should I return the game to Amazon?...
Yeah, COIN is a complex series overall, and Fire in the Lake is one of the most complex of an already complicated series. So if it's feeling like a lot to handle... it probably is!
liberty or death is my favorite game of this series so far. (with my amazing sample size of 2 played). I cant wait for them to make a bot deck for that game. Ive put an ungodly amount of hours into this game and LoD's flow charts and I still barely, understand them. after using the deck i'll never go back.
Nicely done, bravo. But maybe in 24:58 there is a mistake. Limited Operations don't contain Special Activities as far as what I can get from the rulebook. So should not be raids there.
The new cards are trivially better. The only advantage they give is you can’t predict what they will do on their turn. The real success with the new automa are the bubble charts you use for priority. I remember hating the calculations I needed to do just to figure out where something would go. I openly criticized you guys for never covering a game like this but am glad to see you prove me wrong.
Don't forget that the new automa also avoids the problem you sometimes got with the original where the AI spends all their resources and then you run roughshod over them all game ;) Though here lucky rolls can cause almost the opposite problem, if they keep doing actions forever. PS - You criticized us for not covering games like this? This is my 4th or 5th COIN game on the channel, and I've also covered lots of other war and conflict games of varying complexities (Warfighter, Pax Pamir, The Hunted, etc.) I don't feature war games all the time, but pretty regularly :)
I have the Tru’ng bot and I’m pretty sure I’m just going to always play solo multiplayer. The bots are just way too much effort which takes me out of the game. Same with Cuba Libre.
I played a game of this as the NVA against the bots and that Rolling Thunder card decimated me. Took my resources down to 1 and since the NVA don’t have a way to generate resources until a coup, my hands were extremely tied.
At 31:00 I think you make a mistake. With the old flowchart bots, the AI always does a full operation with special activity. You can block the AI from doing an event, but you can never limit their operations or activity. Maybe this has changed with the new card bots, but the old flowchart bots would break if you did not do the full operation with activity (the chart bots always assumed a special activity, so sometimes they do the activity before operations to optimize the outcome).
No mistake. This is one of the biggest changes in the new automa. They can do operations without special activities, just like players. It’s actually one of my favorite changes, because I didn’t like how you had fewer choices to limit the automa in the old version
Hi Mike My brain is too fuzzy to concentrate on watching right now, but hopefully will watch soon. When I think of the COIN series the first thing that springs to mind is flow charts, which is off putting. So am really keen to see how the card system works. Must have missed the Gandhi playthrough as don't recall such a system for this series of games.
Haha, trust me, there's at least an hour cut from the video of me looking up rules over and over :) PS - Just got The British Way in the mail for a future playthrough!
0:00 - Introduction
1:13 - Game Overview
6:13 - Sihanouk
17:22 - Rolling Thunder
23:26 - Uncle Ho
26:47 - Top Gun
32:12 - Booby Traps
34:13 - Coup
43:02 - Operation Attleboro
45:53 - Senator Fulbright
48:04 - Burning Bonze
50:20 - 559th Transport Grp
53:49 - La Drang
57:51 - Chu Luc
1:00:00 - No Contact
1:02:47 - ROKs
1:06:34 - Mini-Review
I really love this game together with the bot deck. Thanks for showcasing.
I enjoy it too :)
Great Video as usual!
Thanks for the playthrough, it's inspired me to sell my copy. It's too much work to enjoy, and I'd never play a game without making multiple rules mistakes.
Hahaha, well, happy to inspire in either direction ;)
I enjoy the flow and the heavy thinkiness, but I've also played 5 games in the series now so it doesn't feel like too much of a rules lift to learn one more.
It's a shame though. I know it's complicated, and I admit it doesn't hit the table often, but it's definitely a flawed masterpiece. I'm glad I own it; it's like a documentary of the Vietnam War in a board game.
@@Emsworth377 I personally wouldn't call it "flawed".
My description would be "pretty tough to run solo". Multiplayer is great once people figure out what the heck they are doing ;)
@@OneStopCoopShop of the COIN games you’ve played, which are better for solo? And before I watch this whole playthrough, how much harder is this game to run solo Vs the Wakhan in Pax Pamir? I love LOVE Pamir and and trying very hard to figure out what’s next for me. I’m interested in a war game, interested in the war in Vietnam, but unsure if this will make my brain explode. (I would likely start with one of the easier COIN games and not go straight to this one.)
“Better for solo” depends on what you are looking for. Easier to run, more conflict focused, more dynamic, etc.
But all of them are much heavier than wakhan, because it’s a more complex system to begin with, and because you are running 3 AI instead of only 1. I personal enjoy pax pamir more because it’s a much smoother play, but these can be great too
My favourite COIN game 😁!
It's also the COIN game with the most number of expansions.
They recently came out with an alternate scenario expansion, right?
@@OneStopCoopShop "Sovereign of Discord" is more like a "prequel": starting from 1961 as opposed to "Fall of Saigon" which happens after the base game (aka "sequel").
There is a long scenario combining both expansions and the base game but I don't think I'm insane enough for that.
The full scenario in the base game is already long.
@@bullno1
I’m insane enough for that! My friend and I are going to do it, but we decided we are likely going to stretch it out over 2 days.
Thanks for the review. I bought the game but haven't played yet. Though people rave about it, it does look a bit too complicated to be enjoyed. We have to focus on the rules rather than enjoying the game... Not sure. Should I return the game to Amazon?...
Yeah, COIN is a complex series overall, and Fire in the Lake is one of the most complex of an already complicated series. So if it's feeling like a lot to handle... it probably is!
liberty or death is my favorite game of this series so far. (with my amazing sample size of 2 played). I cant wait for them to make a bot deck for that game. Ive put an ungodly amount of hours into this game and LoD's flow charts and I still barely, understand them. after using the deck i'll never go back.
I've heard great things about LoD, and yes, agree the cards are much better. I'm happy all the new COIN games will have them built in.
Nicely done, bravo. But maybe in 24:58 there is a mistake. Limited Operations don't contain Special Activities as far as what I can get from the rulebook. So should not be raids there.
Ah, good catch!
The new cards are trivially better. The only advantage they give is you can’t predict what they will do on their turn. The real success with the new automa are the bubble charts you use for priority. I remember hating the calculations I needed to do just to figure out where something would go.
I openly criticized you guys for never covering a game like this but am glad to see you prove me wrong.
Don't forget that the new automa also avoids the problem you sometimes got with the original where the AI spends all their resources and then you run roughshod over them all game ;)
Though here lucky rolls can cause almost the opposite problem, if they keep doing actions forever.
PS - You criticized us for not covering games like this? This is my 4th or 5th COIN game on the channel, and I've also covered lots of other war and conflict games of varying complexities (Warfighter, Pax Pamir, The Hunted, etc.) I don't feature war games all the time, but pretty regularly :)
I have the Tru’ng bot and I’m pretty sure I’m just going to always play solo multiplayer. The bots are just way too much effort which takes me out of the game. Same with Cuba Libre.
Totally makes sense, and I've enjoyed multi-handing all sides solo as well.
I played a game of this as the NVA against the bots and that Rolling Thunder card decimated me. Took my resources down to 1 and since the NVA don’t have a way to generate resources until a coup, my hands were extremely tied.
Oof, that sounds rough!!
Thanks for doing COIN games! Could you do Cuba Libre with the new automa?
I don’t own the original game anymore 😭
After I played the more complex COINs, I didn’t enjoy it as much. Sorry!
@@OneStopCoopShop No worries! Thanks just the same!
At 31:00 I think you make a mistake. With the old flowchart bots, the AI always does a full operation with special activity. You can block the AI from doing an event, but you can never limit their operations or activity. Maybe this has changed with the new card bots, but the old flowchart bots would break if you did not do the full operation with activity (the chart bots always assumed a special activity, so sometimes they do the activity before operations to optimize the outcome).
No mistake. This is one of the biggest changes in the new automa. They can do operations without special activities, just like players. It’s actually one of my favorite changes, because I didn’t like how you had fewer choices to limit the automa in the old version
Hi nice work, but at 33:12 you could not transport polices per the rules
Thanks!
Hi Mike
My brain is too fuzzy to concentrate on watching right now, but hopefully will watch soon.
When I think of the COIN series the first thing that springs to mind is flow charts, which is off putting.
So am really keen to see how the card system works. Must have missed the Gandhi playthrough as don't recall such a system for this series of games.
I believe all upcoming ones have it in the base box, like Gandhi. I know the mars one does
@@OneStopCoopShop
There's a Mars COIN game?
I see it's on P500
Also it's no.13 in the COIN series!?
I live under a rock! lol
I p500d it. But not coming till 2023
You’re so much smarter than me.
Haha, trust me, there's at least an hour cut from the video of me looking up rules over and over :)
PS - Just got The British Way in the mail for a future playthrough!
@@OneStopCoopShop can’t wait!
Awesome to see wargames on here
I have some more coming soon!