#10MinuteTalk
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Ryan Muckenhirn joins Jimmy and Mark to discuss the 7.62x51 NATO, and inevitably, it’s civilian cousin the .308 in this episode from our NATO cartridge series. We talk about what it is, where it came from, what it was used for and out of which firearm platforms along with maybe the idea that there could be some conspiracy theories behind this cartridge? Ryan also compares this cartridge to his Dad, earning it the new nickname in our books as just “Dad”. Listen in to find out why!
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You guys have it backwards. The commercial 308 has a higher pressure than the 7.62x51 unlike the 5.56/.223.
I was going to say the same thing. I always remember this because it's just the opposite of the 5.56/.223. Which is kinda weird! I don't think there is a difference in the head space like there is in 5.56/.223 (I could be wrong) but .308 is genuinely loaded at higher pressures.
Yep. Most people get it wrong
Yep,Sammi shows 308 with higher pressure 🤷♂️
The reason x51 is less pressure is because of case capacity with the thicker cases.
@@jasonw598 late reply but the true reason is because the military wanted it to be lower pressure since it would be used in belt fed LMG's and they didnt want it to tear the guns apart as fast
Good overview of the 7.61x51. When I trained in the service we used 30-06. I served early in Vietnam and the M14 was the preferred rifle until the M16 was transitioned in. I'm still using a couple of 308 rifles.
Ryan- "It's a good round". About every cartridge y'all discuss....Love it
Hahahaha, yeah, you’re right. But he ain’t wrong, lol!
Can I shoot it? Good round lmao.
Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question “are the .308 Winchester and 7.62×51 NATO one and the same.” The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62×51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win “Go Gauge” is 1.630″ vs. 1.635″ for the 7.62×51. The .308’s “No-Go” dimension is 1.634″ vs. 1.6405″ for a 7.62×51 “No Go” gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62×51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: “[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn’t to the .308 ‘headspace’ dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule.” You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62×51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max.
I don't even own any firearms and I'm binging these podcasts. Hearing people like Ryan share their expertise is so bloody interesting.
I couldn't imagine the military replacing the .308 diameter bullet, it has served our military proud for almost 110 years.
Your thinking 30-06. The .308 was invented in the 1950’s.
@@timothyburnett9843, That's right, but the .30-06 also uses a .308 diameter bullet, the reason why it's called the .30-06 is because it was a .30 caliber cartridge made in 1906.
@@adamcuneo7189 No shit Sherlock. Why not just say .30 caliber or 7.62 then? Which is also used in a 300 blackout which I’m sure you would be pointing out eventually.
@@timothyburnett9843, I was talking about the bullet in my first comment, not any cartridges that uses that diameter bullet.
@@timothyburnett9843
😂🤣
I love your 10 minute talks about cartridges. here in Sweden, 308 win is very popular. over 80% of all new hunting rifles are chambered in 308 win. is
populare because most people use silencers and short riflebarrels. 180gr is the most common bullet weight in 308 win here.
How hard is it to get a suppressor or rifle in Sweden? Here in the US, it's easy to get a background check and buy a firearm, but difficult to get a suppressor, (it can take a year to get a supressor, but about an hour to buy a rifle)
I like the 165 grain bullet … but may try a 175 grain bullet soon in my .308 👍🏼
Fucking right. Americanize Sweden! Merica 🇺🇸
@@kyle18934 not particularly hard. If you have a hunting exam you are allowed to purchase a rifle if you are without a criminal record. Buying a suppressor is the same as buying a rifle, you apply for a license with the police and in 6-12 weeks (depending on county) you are allowed to buy your suppressor. If you apply for both rifle and Suppressor at the same time you get it the same time.
@@TheHippieYozz ah ok, Makes sense.
Oh, what types of rifles can you purchase for hunting? I personally like to use a 30.06 Tikka bolt action
US Navy converted M1's to 7.62x51 nato. In the M1 platform the 30.06 has very pleasant recoil. I use the M1 to introduce young shooters to high power rifles. (Single round) Everybody should have one. Merica
Seriously most underrated podcast out there
02:55 classic movie.
Patrick Swayze- "Get up there and piss in the radiator, boy."
"Why?"
Patrick Swayze - "How old are you?"
"Fifteen."
Patrick Swayze - "When you get older, you will understand. Now, get up there and piss in the radiator."
Also, Powers Boothe at his finest. And a watershed movie for Lea Thompson and C. Thomas Howell.
Great video. I love the 308. Fantastic round. It rocks in my SIG AR.
The 7.62/308 is easily my favorite cartridge hands down. It does a bit of everything, and a bit of everything actually really well at that! Lol
Yup Indian army just selected the SIG 716 a 7.62 rifle as it's main frontline rifle due to those reasons.
@@siddharthbirdi Lol I just heard that the other day. I give em big props for that. I've a couple ARs in 556 and several 762-NATOs. When shooting arises...I'm grabbing a 762x51 without regret! I've done many ballistic gel tests from 10yrds out to 600yrds and 556 just doesn't cut it.
@@GrySgtBubba Yeah that's what our soldiers also said, they trust the 7.62 round because because its a sure kill round, 5.56 tends to give terrorists a second chance to throw a grenade etc even after being shot.
@@siddharthbirdi Yes sir, correct again. I've known dozens who've served overseas and most the ones who are gun people growing up don't much like the 556 for combat anymore, unless you're rockin an M249 or don't mind dumping 1/3 to 1/2 your mag into a bad guy. Friends that carried an M240 or an Mk14-EBR or M110 felt pretty confident.
Hell, even if the military just switched to 6.8 Grendel or 6.8SPC (maybe), troops would fair alot better.
@@GrySgtBubba Doubt they will shift to Grendel for the line troops, SOCOM already uses them I think. There is so much 5.56 and 7.62 lying around, the suits will find it uneconomical to shift to a new caliber.
I have a 308 and love it. As many say it's great at doing just about everything (but not the absolute best at anything).
Still waiting on a 30-06 video!
They did one for 100th episode
They did an official .30-06 video recently. Edit: Dropped 2 days ago.
We had SDM with issue, polymer stocked M14s in our unit. Iraq, 2004/5. Effective and efficient.
a short version of the 06. I you think you need it, that would be untrue. If you think the 06 has an edge with heavier bullets that would be untrue. The 180 grainer is an all around bullet, especially the new high BC bullets today, and any other bullet in the 200/220 class just isn't need on even heavier North American game.
The end of this was kinda funny. I bought my dad a .308 remington 700 for father's day several years ago
I love these videos. Real dudes talking about real stuff. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Happy to hear that Johnny! Thanks for tuning in 👊
I really like these videos. Keep me coming boys
Not sure how the 6.5 longer bullet will cycle in machine guns … have to wait and see
@@CircleBrewery it’ll be fine shut up.
308 elk load for me is 165 ttsx. Target is 175 smk. All out of same r700 aac sd 20 inch barrel.
You can fire .223 in barrels only marked 5.56 mm, and you can fire 7.62x51 mm in barrels only marked .308. Do not do either of those in reverse.
I could've sworn I've always heard and know I've read that the 308 is the more powerful round (better case design and higher pressure) then the 7.62×51.
Sammi specs have a higher top end pressure than the nato loadings 308 has more case capacity due to a weaker case that is thinner especially around the primer pocket. They are different in a reloading book they are the same when being shot at
@@fookyu1621 so the 7.62×51 is made to be able to get beat up a bit more, while the .308 a civilian round is made to be a tad bit more powerful, but weaker since it problably wont be beat up as much? That's my questioning guess at least
@@kyle18934 i would agree with you on the durability of the cartridges but energy of the cartridge in usually higher in a nato loading of comparable projectile weight, the additional case capacity of 308 is really only available to people willing to handload a compressed powder charge. My point is nato 150 grain ball round probably has more energy than the average 150 grain federal deer load, the deer load has a softer bullet that expands easier, resulting in better soft tissue effects. But if i wanted the fastest hardest hitting 30 call standard action id stuff a 180 grain pill in a 308 case packed with the right powder
Conspiracy? No mention of the US forcing NATO to adopt the round when UK & FN were working on their versions of a .280 and then turning around and deciding that they wanted their own 5.56 instead.
What was even more egregious was how the ordinance corps sabotaged the deployment of the M16 by providing incorrect ammo and spreading misinformation about cleaning practices. Got infantrymen killed because they wanted to keep selling their M14s to the government.
@@BuzzzdLightyear Honestly the US government should have been held more accountable for what they did to American soldiers during the Vietnam War with the crap 5.56 ammo they issued and no cleaning kit.
@@BuzzzdLightyear Right on the money with the M14 sales. Pathetic....we knew things were going smaller bore and shorter engagement distances. But stupid ass bean counters got people killed over a fucking budget...
M118LR sniper round isn't loaded very hot. Out of the m110 has an average muzzle velocity of 2571fps. It's 175gn Sierra match king with 43.5 grains of reloader 15 powder.
Please do a ten minute talk on 44 magnum. Sure been enjoying these informative ten minute talks. 👍
Is there a 7.62×39mm episode ?
If 308 is "dad" that makes 300 savage grandpa 30-06 your grandpa's cousin
Best all around round ever developed, from sniping, to machine guns, hunting or long range competitions. Its design, due to being shorter but just as wide as the 30-06 allows it to burn powder at higher pressures and more efficiently making it more accurate than its predecessor. You cannot find a "regular" cartridge more accurate than the 308 Win or 7.62x 51mm NATO (unless you are into Bench Rest and that does not count in the real world). Easy to reload for hunting or competition, you can reach out to 1000 meters with excellent accuracy with the right load. Longest kill by an American sniper using a bolt action with M118 Match ammunition in Iraq is around 1200 meters, but it took tremendous skill (check the two documentaries on snipers in the Military Channel). The cartridge was designed originally to shoot a 147-150gr bullets at the same velocity (2900 FPS) as the 30-06 and allow the soldier to carry more ammo which nonsense because it is a heavy round nevertheless for infantry riflemen and thus enters the 5.56 NATO in a light rifle back in the 1960's. But if you want to really put the hurt on the opposing side, the 7.62 still the best combination of size, firepower and effective ballistics for NATO. By the way, the cartridge is a boomer in a bolt action but not so much in an M14 or a FAL or a German G91 in the semiauto mode.
I’ve shot the .308 out of Remington 742 & 7400’s. It’s a bear out of those rifles. I’d like to shoot a ar10 & m14 to see the difference if any.
No difference from the rifles except accuracy 👌
Very Cool
308 win is new to me I've used the 300 win mag for 25 year's for hunting round just a few years ago I got my DPMS-LR in 308w the hunting shop take me in to it perfect is lighter than my Ruger M77 SS wood stock 300wm.
DHS now calls the 5.56 carbine a personal defense weapon. I can a agree with that. In the sand box it was not much more. We relied on 240/ 50 call 80mm air cover and armor. Then we would sweep up the stragglers. 5.56 is ok. Never should have shortened the barrel past 18 inches. The bullet weight was to light. 64 grain with out the steel core. The best thing was the optics and thermal. Force multiplier . AR is and excellent plat form. 7.62 is king with surgical targets or massive cover fire.
Came looking for the .358 Winchester and settled for the next closest.
OHHH... a "10 min talk" that is actually closer to 10 min!!!!!
Lol great vid.
Do .303 British ! Please.
It is not just a thicker wall. There are significant differences in the Chamber Pressures between the 308 and the 7.65x51. Special attention must be placed on how the manufacture stamps the rifle platform. A rifle stamped as 308, can fire both 308 and 7.62x51 ammo since it can handle the chamber pressures of the 7.62x51. However a rifle stamped 7.62x51, cannot fire 308 Ammo without significant risks. The reason is that the chamber pressures exerted by the 308 round go up to 12,000 PSI difference. The receiver, and chamber of a stamped 7.62x51 cannot handle these pressures, especially on poorly built 7.62x51 rifles, which can result in deforming of the chamber and in some cases catastrophic failures, that can cause injury to the user. In summary 308 and 7.62x51 are not the same when firing on a chamber stamped 7.62x51.
Your information is flowed, and many can be injured by suggesting that the .308 and 7.62x51 are the same, hence the video still online ...
No 308 is more powerful then 7.62x51
Do 303 Brit. Please!
375 CT vs 375 Enabl vs 416 BRT vs 408CT vs 338 LM that is what I would like to see from a BC and Velocity loss/efficiency perspective.
I was looking at the ar10 in .308, but decided on a 6.5 grendel instead. I have a bolt action 30.06 for hunting big game that works just fine
Everyone needs to own a 308 Win and 30-06.
This cartridge is not dad. I would say dad is the 7x 57 mauser . This case was lengthened about a half inch and necked up to 308 to form the 30/06 cartridge. Convince me I’m wrong 😑
Killed dozens of deer over the years using exactly 3 rounds: Savage 10 .308 in Fed. 180gr soft points (timber) & Fed's 180gr Trophy Bonded (out West). The third was my M1A in Fed 168gr OTM. Never had to track. Most dropped in place. Ranges of 30 yards to 350 yards. Recently bought a Kimber in .280AI to lighten up the pack. TBD...
280 ackley using 168 barnes lrx is nasty combo
My coworker has m1a scout squad he shoots 168 smk for steel shooting and hunting uses 165 accubond
How in the heck did you guys manage to go on about the 7.62x51mm NATO for 10 minutes without mentioning the FN FAL?
Also, to sound like Ryan, this round is ubiquitous. It is everywhere. There is not a place in the world where you cannot find 7.62 x 51 mm NATO. In the USA, you will find it labeled as that and as .308 Winchester. And you can find it anywhere. And, it is a suitable round for war actions and for medium game hunting.
I have seen a guy bring down a moose with 6. Creedmoor. So, I know, a .308 Win can do that, too.
Yea because the .308 has stopped power for big game where the 6.5 doesn’t I’m not impressed personally with the 6.5 it’s like the Kyle or Chad of the rounds.
What about 7.62x63 ?
if I could only have one cartridge, it would be a 308
If you want heavy with the 3006 just go to the BAR. Try carrying one of those for awhile.
204 ruger please
The weather resistant stuff is called preservation.
If I had to choose one rifle for all big game hunting situations in North America it would be chambered in .308 Winchester...
That would definitely cover you for most!
Hey can you talk about the 6.8 Western?
They talked about the 280 ackley and it edges out the 6.8 western in every way.
@@JAKDRZR plus the 280 has been out much longer. I don’t get the hype about these new rounds lol.
We went smaller to try and wound, not kill to gather information from enemies. And also carry more rounds.
Not true at all 😂😂
I have 2 308/7.62 and a 300 Win Mag. I won't be giving them up anytime soon. They both can knock down anything in North America.
Can the 7.62x51 be fired in rifle that has “308 win” stamped on barrel and vice versa?? Will it hurt the gun?
308 has a higher pressure spec than 7.62 NATO and therefore has higher velocities and power. You can shoot 7.62 in 308s but you shouldn’t shoot 308s in 7.62 unless the manufacturer prescribes usage.
@@MrTRESTOON It's fine to shoot either round in either chambering because the higher pressure that the 308 has is very minimal over the 7.62x51. Even the SAAMI doesn't consider it unsafe to fire 308 in a 7.62 gun.
Shoot what printed on the barrel. If you have a scar 17/20s, only shoot 7.62 x51
10,000 psi potential difference
308 is the sweet spot as far as rifles go
You gotta do more research fellow's.. The commercial 308 has more pressure than the NATO 7.62 x 51… It is also advised you should not fire an 308 through a 7.62 x51 action.
👍
All the wizz bang cartridges and everyone has a soft spot for the 308. If someone simply says 762 we all know what they mean.
You had to bring up the 6.5 creedmoor 🙄
😉😉
I love 30 Cal bullets for hunting. Not the best for military application in my opinion. 3006 lite.
You think something like a 6.5 creedmore or a 6.5 in general would be better than a 7.62 since it's thinner so it would be lighter to carry and still have a good punch?
A bedded journalist asked a Marine what he felt after killing a insurgent ? The Marine replied and said recoil !
.308 is an ancient measurement, shoot most arrows are ... .308 diameter when doing the math the ratio for mass to diameter is best delivered in .308 form lol somethings just are.
Lmfao "m14 had full auto which was a big plus" ummm i think the us army disagreed since it cost ammo you couldn't contol it and the only ones they sill have have all been maid into prade guns or semi auto ebrs
I guess that makes .30-06 Granddad?
This is the rifle round to be armed up and practiced for, specifically the M80. Set your scope zero for that NATO milspec because when the SHTF the civilian stocks of ammo, *_and your beloved 5.56x45,_* will be confiscated by the gun grabbers and be destroyed!
With guns in 7.62x51, 9mm Luger and 12 gauge you will be able to find a sympathetic cop or soldier that you can trade a nice ham or hindquarter of venison for a few boxes of ammo because he will have access to those rounds. He won't have access to 357 Magnum for your Manurhin revolver, 45 ACP for your Desert Eagle match pistol *_or 5.56 your AR15_* because all of those will have been banned and the ammo for everything else will have been confiscated or shot up in the first 90 days.
NATO uses the 7.62x51 as a "main battle rifle" mainly meant to defend installations and kill by volley fire at 600 yards, reliably. Very different from the M16 spray-n-pray.
That's not right at all. 7.62 is used in MG's & some sniper rifles. The M16 has largely been replaced by the M4 20 years ago and both are very accurate. Spray and pray is a train issue.
Ive shot thousands of rounds through a M240B. Dirty. Rusty. It doesn’t matter. That heavy girl would eat it and rock n roll
308 62000 psi 7.65x51 55000 so not like 5.56 and 9x19 308 is hotter
The grocery store discount brand of firearms information.
7.62 is way more popular than 5.56...
I would disagree... there is much more buying of .223/5.56 than .308/7.62 based on what is left on the shelves. Available ammo is an good indicator, as well as noting price increase. I’m witnessing a much greater increase in pricing of the 5.56 vs 7.62 rounds.
they should put 7mm rem mag in the armed forces
US secret service uses 7mm Rem Mag with 168 grain SMK projectile
Just buy a moss berg patriot on 308 can I shot this bullet on it
Why do you guys have so much SPAM?
Why do you not have so much SPAM...?
@@VortexNation I hear it stands for Specially Processed Armadillo Meat. 😁
@@terry5008 We would try that😂