With some speakers you feel the music, and with others you just think about it
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
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My system consists of a Harman Kardon PM650 integrated amp driving a pair of Klipsch Forte speakers. That combination pulls me in even after 35 years of ownership. I close my eyes and I can feel like the band is in the same room with me.
Ive always been a huge believer in compression drivers and the realism they produce.
I can crank that system up and listen to it and feel it for hours without fatigue. Lots of dynamic range and detail too.
35 years!!! Wow I was just a small kid back then! 😲
This is one of Steves videos that really stuck with me.
My Big Mac and my JBL 4311's are getting happy listening to you talk about this type of listening!
Love my jbl 4311's 🔊🔊
Photography has its own audiophile equivalent. They're called pixel-peeping gearheads.
They care more about individual pixels and sharpness and completely lose the photograph itself.
Meanwhile, a whole world of people out there are simply enjoying these songs and photos and are quite happy.
And they are trolls on DPR.
I wonder which type of person invented things like photography and sound recording 🤔
@@fearless1024 Nerds. Nerds invent everything.
Yeah I gotta say, as an aging musician afflicted with audiophylia, having listened to and owned many speakers, that the best sounding affordable speakers that sound the closest to what actual instruments sound like are the old-school L 100 series and 4312 JBL's. They were poo-pooed in their day and still now by many.... mainly because they are not smooth and can at times be harsh. Well guess what - there is nothing smooth about standing next to the drummer's snare and hi-hat all night or having a horn section right behind you. It is visceral and dynamic... The secret with old JBL speakers is to send a quality signal to them after they have had the 'presence' and "brilliance' aka mid and high crossover controls wound back by around 3 to 6 db. The tweeters can be upgraded with silk dome units and voila - happy listening.... Smooth sounding music is like smooth beer - ultimately boring. And it helps to remember that a substantial portion of the great music from the 60's and 70' that we love was mixed and mastered on the good ol' 4312's
As another aging musician that is into music but not to the listening level I was a few years ago..I can say this is 100 percent correct. Live music on the stage is anything but smooth. I have worn ear plugs standing next to the drummer to keep from going deaf while struggling to hear my guitar over the bass player while on a stage made more for a solo act.
who says smooth beer is boring?
Golly, I don't remember piccolo cutting off at 7khz and dead by 11. I don't remember real trumpets getting strident. Cello and live orchestra going dead by 50hz. Mainly because they don't and the L-100 and 4312 do not sound like actual instruments.
I attend 10 or more live music performances every year! The music is crystal clear with VISCERAL impact! I listened to Pink Floyd's DARK SIDE of the MOON through JBL L300 SUMMIT speakers driven by ECLIPSE amps and the music floored me with realism and power!
My fathers old kef c-series speakers from the 80’s are a great feel speaker. I still use them to this day and they still hit me in that special place.
I've really been enjoying your content. Thanks!
I am quite lucky and almost reached audio nirvana: I have found the right combination of speakers+amp+CD player+cables+room so that I can enjoy every hour of music I want, without any frustration characteristic of audiophilia disease! and I am very lucky I have made by myself a pair of speakers that are revealing and capable of nuances/details and at the same time they have punch and emotional impact. So, great aestethic presentation of sound and sense involving
you are 100% right!
I have to say Steve, I agree. I have been discovering this as I changed out several speakers from my Dahquist, to the Martin Logans and Klipsch. Wow you are spot on
Yes, a musical experience is visceral but it is not all visceral. It is also about other factors such as tonality. Of course, as you suggested, the type of speakers you use are a function of the type of music you listen to. Klipsch and JBL speakers are great for rock but not for chamber music or other types of acoustic music. The key is to find a system with the best balance of factors that are relevant for the kind of music you listen to.
I've been very lucky. All music that I listen 2 sounds good on my system (well, all the properly recorded/engineered music).
A speaker has to do three things for me: zero listening fatigue at fairly high volume, great imaging, and initiate an irresistible urge to dance or at least tap my feet. Just listened again to Wynton Marsalis's 'BIG TRAIN'. Amazing cd....will definitely put a system to the test.
WR Day
Sounds interesting. I have to check that out....
WR Day : so far, I hv two speakers that sorta meet your requirement: Celestion SL700, and JBL 4320.
WR Day y
WR Day dance? True audiophiles dont dance to The music they listen to through their systems at home. You seem to be more into sensation than reflection.
If you need high volumes you need a ear check. My speakers rarely go beyond 60db.
Really good chat Steve. Helped me think through my purchasing decision.
I hear you Steve. I have one system for critical listening in my den with a pair of Magnepans transitioning seamlessly to a Paradigm sub. I love it. It is as revealing as it gets IMHO. I also have a system in the living room with Definitive Technology speakers for listening off the air, home theatre and partying which I also love. It's kind of like having two high performance cars: a two-seater for special occasions and a more practical sedan more suitable as a daily driver but that is still a driver's car and can be thrashed around a bit.
Hi I had the same system you described with a thorens turntable and you are correct, I also owned a lot of great Jbl speakers over the years and loved them all
"I think I'm done now."
Careful, there are a lot of people who spend a lot of money for their systems that others say sound good.
Love your channel, keep up the good work!
Hey Steve, Thanks for this thought. I get it and I hope others do too. A long time ago I had a pair of Focus Audio FR 6T's fired by an Arcam Alpha 6 integrated.
To me, that system was magic. The music was palpable. This feeling has driven my decades long search to get that again. Thanks to you, I may have never tried Klipsch.
They come very close, and the search continues.
Thanks, Steve. Great insights. Our band had a pair of Alterc Lansing a700 loudspeakers (12" speaker in a folded horn with huge compression tweeter) for our PA rig and for the bass player to play through. They were made for theater and movie sound reproduction. Incredible speakers - think 2001 A Space Odyssey at the Cinerama movie house, for example. I have never seen nor heard anything like them since they went out of production. Two of them literally could fill the abandoned WWII torpedo hanger we played in at night with genuine high-fidelity sound. They were efficient enough to be driven to very usable levels with a run-of-the-mill Bogen low-powered tube amp. With good electronics, their only competition were Klipschorns which were also folded horns with compression tweeters. They could be boomy, they didn't have flat response curves like today's speakers and were the size of a modest refrigerator but their virtues outweighed all their flaws every time.
Altec stuff was first rate and IMO the Altec 19, which was the most refined home speaker using Altec motion picture theater speaker drivers, is still one of the finest home speakers ever made. Besides 19s I also used Altec theater speakers in the home, various VOTs including A7s, A7-500s and the mighty A5. And some Duplexes too, 605As.
Ah yes, Tom, and thanks for your reply. Those who have never heard the mighty Altec speakers made for theater, in a theater, driven by huge tube amps - Altec, McIntosh, for example - have no idea what the fuss is all about. And yes, the home versions were spectacular, too.
highly agree with what your saying here. Its like some speakers hit all of the technical check marks but for some reason aren't as much fun or enjoyable than other speakers. Its like a super high end restaurant vs that pizza joint that never lets you down and you could eat it everyday.
"It just sort of pushed me to listen to different kinds of music" - this is so great because that is what is great about democracy of fidelity.
When I was a teen , in my town we had a "big trash" pickup every fall & I would ride my bike looking for tossed treasure.
One morning went down a dead end street and some people were throwing out a pair of speakers... they were and I knew I couldn't carry both..i asked the man at the house if I could leave one near his garage and come back for it ..he agreed .
And that is how I got my first pair of Klipsch Quartets!
Those speakers moved me , changed me , as Steve says in the video ..i felt the music ..it went through me , surrounded me.
I may or may not be an audiophile ..dont really care either way . I love music , I love and appreciate home nice audio gear ..be it a $12.000 pair of speakers or a pair someone threw away ..if they move me ..mission accomplished !
Listen long , listen often & turn a kid on to some decent gear !
Will.
Dude. Heart heart heart for the whole "cerebral speakers vs. body speakers" - OH My Good, you nailed that. It's something I finally understood when contemplating why certain people like certain fidelity.
Great video topic Steve - and I know exactly what you mean. My preference is the powerful gut feeling of a speaker - discovered this when I purchased vintage 1979 Mordaunt Short Signifer speakers. I’ve read many opinions that the signifer have more powerful feeling and tighter base than the Celestion Ditton 66, they are also very crisp and delicate on mids and highs - cabinet is larger which likely helps the deep feeling a bit. My B&W speakers are now moved to my second system, as I’ve chosen feel over finesse.
Hey Steve I placed my sub behind my seat, I think you talked about doing this in a previous video. Man let me tell you it works I have moved that sub all over the room but always avoided placing it behind the listening position, but wow does it integrate with my speakers now so smooth and authoritative plus I get the added benefit of feeling the sub more too.
The Summit having a 15-inch woofer doesn't hurt.
I've been running a pair of JBl Sovereign ll's with the 077 hi compression drivers for decades. I use Macintosh electronics and find that I can play any type of music through them. They sounds fabulous.
Great topic today. Once upon a long time ago, (in my own early years of audiophilia) I tended to disregard JBLs as "club and discoteque" sort of loudspeaker, not the "audiophile" species of those times. Later on and having matured enough (or else, at a later stage of my personal audiophilia disease) I came to realize the obvious (which you very well present and put into words today): JBLs ARE (generally)TRULLY, NO DOUBT, GREAT, FANTASTIC, WONDERFULL, ADORABLE LOUDSPEAKERS. And this, by many audiophile terms, not just above average hi-fi. That said, let's return to reality: NO LOUDSPEAKER IS PERFECT! And the kind of music you enjoy best as well as HOW you enjoy it best (rather an easy relaxed-even multitasking- listening or a striving for the "being there" experience) set a frame for what sort of loudspeakers you might enjoy best, which ones you'd happily live with for a longer time. Realising this sad truth (that no loudspeaker is perfect) was one of the hardest times of my audioplilia disease stages. And while so many people with less knowledge and experience than me (or even daring audiophiles) might be lucky or wise enough to choose and genuinely enjoy a great JBL based system, I, audiophile son of perdition, am doomed to an eternal search for the ideal, the holy grail of loudspeakers, the panacea for most audiophile maladies! (and, man, if I didn't believe I'm getting closer and closer, putting together more and more good features of all the audiophile louspeaker species of the world, I'd definately grab a pair of JBLs and, perhaps, be even happier an audiophile, than I am now...)
Some nice thoughts there. Thank you very much. x
I feel the music with my KEF q950 on a Panasonic as 701. Very happy with this set up
Steve, you never cease to amaze me with those colourful shirts. Cheers
I just switched subwoofers from a dayton ultimax, to a dayton reference series hifi version, same sealed box, but the former was all air and the latter is all decibels. It's like it's related to intermodulation distortion or something, cerwin vega-style body bass isn't actually sound whether or not it's "visceral." It's still distortion. Suddenly I "feel" the music less (literally feel), and "hear" it more. A truly great sub!
Hi Steve, fun video! I’m a 60s era fan of Led Zeppelin, Carlos Santana, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Punk Floyd and the list goes on. So, love the visceral experience of the JBL 100’s and my Klipsch. I need a speaker that pushes enough air that I feel the music! The Klipsch aren’t there on their own so did add a sub and I found heaven. Thanks for the fun video, really enjoyed
Ohm Walsh 5s were that wow speaker to me. I grow up around my dad's quads esl 57s and when he got OHMs Walsh 5s music was full and impactful like nothing I'd ever heard before. I heard many speakers over my lifetime.
quad speakers with quad 33/303 and trans-scriptor with decca london hand-selected
best sound i ever heard
thanks cheers
I absolutely LOVE my JBL Jubals for the same reasons. They do require a lot of wattage, but man do they sing !! 😁
I know my studio monitors are way better than my Klipsch's, but you're totally right. Some speakers are to be admired for their absolute performance and other just work on an emotional, visceral level.
I bought a sanyo (1970's) amp, pre-amp at a yard sale, ($5) hooked it up to some old particle-board box 2-way speakers, which I had replaced the drivers with inexpensive paper cone 8 ohm woofers. The boxes are, 18" x 14x 8" I mounted them on the wall, about 4 feet off the ground. The result; wow! I like to mix and match components, this combination is amazing.
This is why I just love the Mark Levinson gear from Madrigal. There is something very emotional about listening music through a 326S preamp with 33H monoblocks.
The first time I really experienced that "feel the music" experience was when listening to a set of Klipsch La Scala's. Not only was I hearing it, but it felt like the sound was actually passing through me. And it wasn't turned up.
Also, doing a "feel the music" segment while wearing a tie-dye shirt, perhaps a hifi system was never necessary to really "feel it".
Same. La Scala when I was 13 or so. Also had a friend that had the JBLs pictured.
I have a pair of Summits, and I love them. Many guests that I have shown them too are quite amazed by them and their age.
Damn , I have two pair of studio 580 would love some summit , working on that. Love the mcauley lens on 4210 ? Motor .....legendary reputation especially the heartfields.
That's what grabs me about elac speakers, they reach out to you. As many other brands due as well.
Some don't.
Spot On!
Great series of videos.
So true.. years of listening... I found you could categorize into 'loud'-speakers that do just that.. 'why'-speakers that make you wonder why the manufacturer did that or why it costs so much... and 'immersive'-speakers that just transports you somewhere else and you feel it.
How does the visceral speaker do with the string quartet? I'll bet you hear the cello better.
Although I haven't heard the JBL L300 Summit, the construction looks similar to the slightly larger JBL 4341. I have the 4343, which includes a 0.5 cu ft isolated sub-chamber for the 10" midrange. The compression driver takes over at about 1250 Hz, rather than 800 Hz. I felt that the horn delivered a slightly nasal coloration so I replaced it with a Karlson Coupler. It somehow magically still loads the 2420 driver, disperses the wavefront, keeps the driver in phase, eliminates the horn sound and allows it to go up to 20 kHz. My understanding is that it operates on a principle similar to a flute rather than a horn. I'm writing this to imply that there are work-arounds for the "shortcomings" or "coloration" of the JBL design. You can have the punch and the fidelity.
Larger speakers have the opportunity to move air differently than smaller ones. Moving more air with less cone motion creates a wavefront that doesn't have to go as far before it normalizes. An analogy might be how a fluorescent tube can illuminate a room better than a single bright CFL. I suspect that's why panel speakers sound so good in the range for which they're designed. Vertical stacks of tweeters are doing the same thing. Just thought of this - the sound board in a piano takes the motion of the strings and couples it to the air in the room with a much larger - and less intense - wavefront than the string alone.
Vintage large JBL studio monitors were designed with physics, rather than cost as the main criteria.
your right Steve
That is why I’m an advocate of a good quality sub there not just for movies. We experience low frequencies every day and if it is missing especially in your music then the music is not complete.
You expressed a great thought here. As I side note, the old Realistic MACH 1 speakers dragged me further into music appreciation and audio.
They were impressive in both versions, but they didn't compare well side by side with the Optimus. T -300s.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Yes. I remember those. They were great also.
Yes. In the early 80’s I managed a Radio Shack store. Part of my system was a Realistic STA-2100 receiver (120 wpc) a Realistic lab 400 turntable with a Shure V15-III an ADC Sound Shaper MKII EQ and 2 Realistic Mach 1 speakers. I don’t know if I would like the sound today but I had several D2D and half speed records as well as regular ones and the bass would rip your guts out. 15” woofers, horn mids and bullet tweeters. I also had the RS super tweeters on top. I recall the system sounding great.....of course those were my stoner years 🤪
I was also a Radio shack audiophile in my teenage years!! LOL!
Jerry Mina
Did the "supper" tweeters sound good all day long or just evenings?
;-)
What is wps" (watts per second)?
Swinde hahaha. Thanks. Made the correction.
Scottie Sharpe 👍
I would agree. There are speakers that grab you on an emotional level and draw you in. There are also speakers like Wilsons that are very accurate and revealing, which you can admire on a logical basis but yet do not elicit an emotional response.
E SS Hiel Rock Monitors. Bought them in '72. Still have them. Nothing else even compares.
Hi Steve Brian from Ireland here I was wondering have you ever heard tangent spectrum 6 speakers and if so what's your opinion of them
Interesting observation Steve. It reminds me of how people are told that to fully appreciate music, they first have to learn more about it in a music-appreciation class. BS! Music should grab you instantly, then if you want to learn more about it you can study it, but it isn't your left-brain that's giving you those goosebumps. I feel the same about fine-art.
I felt that way when I added a pair of Klipsch heresy speakers to my stable. I'm driving them with only 8 watts of to power buy antique sound labs. They display lots of texture and buttery smooth. Very fun speakers to listen to. Especially matching them with modern day source electronics.
Funny, I prefer to let the music set the tone and the speakers to be as unobtrusive as possible, not the reverse.
Totaly agree. Just changed amplifier from a modern, neutral and deatailed sounding to a vintage Luxman. Same speaker. Even thou the old Luxman isn't 100% well it still winns. It deliver dynmics, warm and sexy body, in short - it delivers Music.
I been chasing the sound myself. I scored a used pair of first generation JBL LSR305 studio monitors. I am amazed how the speakers dissapear when being enjoyed. I can pick out where each instrument and person is.
Have to agree with you on this topic!
I have had for 30 years Spendor BC1 speakers and just got of ebay Harbeth HL5 which is based on the BC1 designed BBC monitor . The Harbeths sound different far more transparent and dynamic I thought the Bc1 were very good changing over to the Harbeth,s has changed the way I am listening to the music.
Great Great Great ! Steve. A JBL pushing Cheap Trick- Surrender! A Wilson, Sophia blending Barnes and Kress - Townline concert! Both attack my musical soul. For two completely different reasons. Reminders that there is no meter that can measure how music makes you feel! Thanks for the honest to god truth of it all!
This was a very nice presentation! Like you say, if you have to think why a system is good it normally is not or it is your own system that you are trying to justify.
Hi Fi gear today is mostly ridiculously overpriced, and/or featureless. An integrated amplifier or receiver from the '70s offered good value with plenty of features/power. Not any more. In the '50s and '60s it was simple to buy a kit (tube and later SS) and build something of value for your dollar. As far as speakers go, I've been through them all, including electrostatics. I back to where I started from. My main system now includes 40 watt tube mono amps I built (based on Ed Laurent-David Hafler design), a more modern design hand built tube preamp, and a set of JBL L100 speakers I've owned since the mid '70s. Plus a record player with a handful of cartridges, depending upon my mood. I'm very happy with this retro set up. We need more happiness in the world.
Totally agree.
So true mp, all the way around. My system is so retro, it's museum-worthy. The longer the tubes are left on, the better the system sounds and without listening-fatigue. Super accurate, super high fidelity? Maybe not, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.
mp feature less amps aré good. I dont use tone or balance controls or speaker switching or loudness controls. All those i Just mentioned create a longer path for The signal before it gets to The speakers, thus introducing noise And distortion.
J Austin your wrong. Today’s electronics are far better than the 70s junk produced by the likes of kenwood, pioneer etc.. there are some good companies today that were actually around during the 70s that produce great equipment today like PS audio in Colorado. You may pay a little more but that’s inflation.
J Austin wut ju won’t, good gramma or good taste? Now dig, I know dat in da 70s run of da mill audio companies used glass and wood vaneers and the higher end companies today still do. But glass and wood never contributed to good sound just appearances.
Where would you put Vandersteen 2ce? Head or body?
In the mid 80's, I fell in love with the Klipsch Forte II but did not have the cash flow being 19 and all. A few years later heard some JBL 4435's in a studio and was floored. I now have had various Paradigm models but still long for the dynamics that those other speakers have. And if the new Klipsch Forte III were not so expensive I would buy some. I guess they are not that expensive if you adjust for todays dollar.
i remember those big 15 inch pioneers.. what model again?
Hi Steve I can relate to this phenomenon
I am still listening to the same loudspeakers I purchased in 1977. Klipsch Heresy series I with only the crossovers recapped. The rap on Heresies is the absence of deep bass, but consider the size...originally designed as a center speaker for K horns. I know that many do not care much for horns, but since 95% of what I listen to is live recordings, I think they pretty accurately handle those recordings. I just need a nice little tube amp to sweeten the deal. Good video Steve.
Very insightful words from Mark Leninson.
*Levinson. Designer of some of the best amplifiers on planet Earth.
Stalinson
Bullshit. I have 2 Lexus GX 470 different years and both have a mark levinson sound system and it’s absolute garbage. I replaced both. And there were a lot of people online complaining as well. My Audi A6 and Cadillac’s CTS has 10x better sound with BOSE
those old JBLs from the seventies sounded great. still have my L56's
Steve perfectly describes the reaction I had many years ago to my college roommate's JBL L-100s. The sound of those speakers has haunted me ever since.
Been listening to mine for almost 50 years. They never disappoint me.
I have two sets from one set from 77 and one set from 78- 79. Both have been reconditioned and are working perfectly. Unfortunately, they're hold up better than my hearing.
WOW! WHAT A GREAT SPEAKER THE JBL L-100 WAS. One of my Dad's friends had those.
You hit the nail with this one, I think most (99,7 %) loudspeakers sound boring in comparison to my old JBL L 300
I don't think you have heard 99.7% of speakers manufactured.
I know what you mean Mr. Audiophiliac. Sometimes I find myself really listening to my old single speaker Sony clock radio and getting into the music more than I might sometimes on my system- Although I like my system at the moment. It's a strange way that you can get sucked in by some gear. (some small valve radios can have a similar effect on me)
Steve, I was introduced to this sport around 1971 in a small town not too far from Hope, Arkansas.
Know where this is going?
We had a Klipsch dealer where I came to believe they were the ultimate speakers.
After MANY changes seeking audio nirvana, ultimately having stacked Heresy's (top one inverted for tweeter proximity) on custom wedge risers using (my) hand braided speaker "cables" and so on.
One day visiting in Dallas I came upon A B&O dealer demonstrating the M7 phase aligned model (angled front composite panel with knurled angle adjuster) on alloy trumpet stands driven by the Luxman 4000 amp.
The put on Joni Mitchell's "Miles of Aisles"
I had found it.
Now have Maggies.
Phase alignment, low resonance, low diffraction, controlled directivity for me pretty much provide Nirvana.
I do recall the horns somewhat fondly, but they could "grate" on you after a while.
After the excitement fades the problems show their nasty little heads.
Those B&Os, Dahlquists, Quads and others taught me that delicacy counts for more than slam.
( still looking at Avant Gardes though!) I want to hear "Take five" on their new active system.
Like Steve, I sold high end audio for a number of years. I got to take home anything I wanted (we had 36 different lines of speakers and an astonishing selection of electronics). I also owned lots of decent stuff, too often trading sideways, not always really upgrading. Tables, arms, cartridges, cables, separates, EQs, electronic crossovers, digital, tube, SS, speakers and subs, you name it, i spent most of my time "analyzing" the SQ at the expense of listening to the music itself, I became a gear head. Three years ago, I got a bit of cash and thought now is the time to spring for what could possibly be my last speakers, a pair of Magneplanar 3.7. After driving two hours for an audition, I wasn't convinced and wondered why some reviewers were raving, so I didn't commit. Then came along a well priced pair used mint Klipschorns. I rented a cargo van, stopped by the bank for cash and off I went on another two hour drive. This time I came home with the speakers. What a revelation, I'm now listening to music. I realized there are lots of good speakers out there, but regardless of cost, all speakers are "coloured", including Klipsch. There's no replacement for displacement, music is back in my life, the system goes on in the morning until bed time.
arvidien. No replacement for displacement. Always true. If you want to feel the music along with the clarity of the music, you’ve got to move air.
Unless you buy one of those butt kickers to fit under your chair and fake the impact.
There are certain speakers that, well,... give you an eargasm. Sorry, but I don't know how ears to describe how they make you feel. Your in the room with the band as they laid down track after track, mixed to perfection until you get to the perfect balance of music and feeling we're all looking for when you have audiophile disease. There is a point at which music transcends the soul and you become part of the band. Awesome! And sometimes, the only way to get there is with a great set of headphones. I lucked out in some regard as two of my friends opened their own speaker shop. They did high end build for extremely rich people who could afford the best real estate in the Phoenix area. They built systems that had speakers mounted in the walls of the home theater or music rooms, and the people paying for them had their architects built the HK e around their speakers. I had the privilege of listening to almost everything they built, giving them my opinion and learning a hell of a lot along they way. At one point they sat me down in front of an 8" two way design of their own and a pair of Focal eggs. Marc, the designer of the pair, asked me which one I liked better and I chose the speakers they built. The. He said, listen again and this time listen to the information each pair is putting out. As far as frequency range is concerned their speakers walked all over the Focals, but when listening to the Focals a second time I was able to pick up a hell of a lot more detail than their speakers. And I learned from that...., and so much more. In 1995, when the speakers I had built in '82 were damaged and I could find replacement woofers I auditioned every speaker I could find, driving all the way to Tucson in my quest to find replacements. And then one day I went back to their shop where they had just set up a new pair of Focal Two ways for testing. It was a radically new design, and although there were better speakers out their I could begin to afford them or the amplifier required to power them correctly. But when I heard what is now my mains I knew I had found it. Nervana. Damn man, there was nothing else out there that even came close to them given the restraints of a 100 watt amp to drive them properly. There were probably better speakers out there, but they were so inefficient that it would take twice the power just to get them to reasonable listening volumes. Efficiency is a huge plus in my book, and on my budget. These things rocked big time, and even today I'd stack them up against most of the speakers available. With an F3 of 45 hz they work perfectly with their subwoofer when crossed at 50hz, and the system F3 is 23hz, with a high end of 25khz of totally flat response. You're right Steve, there are some speakers out their that make you fell the music!
i had some speakers kind of like those and when i was listening to my favorite songs on them i heard this really great sound that i had to hear again, when i heard it i just became addicted to it so anyway, what do think steve?
Ok Steve, I would like your advice regarding "what's my next step up the stairway to speaker heaven".
Firstly, I am a bit of a n00b, but not a completely clueless rookie.
Current system:
Rega Planar 2 (mid 90s)
Nagaoka MP-110
Denon AVRS710S
Elac Debut B6 (guess who turned me on to the Crutchfield sale)
I am happy with this setup, but while I am educating myself on vintage amps, I wanted to start eyeing the next speaker acquisition. Should I got for something in the Elac F6 price range or should I shoot higher for the LS50 level of speaker.
As always, thanks a million for your excellent advice. Cheers!
Wonderful video! I remember the Marantz and Mac gear driving EV, JBL, AV, Bozak, or Klipsch speakers with rose-tinted glasses, I suppose. A pivotal moment for me was a fellow audioholic playing a Command recording on his K-horns driven by a Marantz 8b. My young ears were seduced, and the addiction began.
I get what you are saying. Some speaker manufacturers try to bring the performance into your home in a way which makes you experience the music some force you to sit down and analyze whatis happening.
Do you have a website i can check out
Speakers that grab me, are speakers that are easily musical. To me this means speakers that when partnered with the right gear, sound a touch warm and offer a big soundstage. That's why I love Totem Acoustic Sky's and Totem Acoustic Hawks.
There is also the phenomenon of acclimatization to consider. We tend to like what we are used to hearing (or tasting... more about that later) so if your musical experience is with boom boxes and loud rock concerts, you might not appreciate a system that is highly accurate at modest volume levels. It's different = I don't like it.
To illustrate with taste: as city kids when visiting relatives who had a farm, we thought that butter tasted "funny"' being used to margarine. They were outraged. OTOH when they visited us in Chicago, they complained about "chlorine" taste in the water, when in fact the North side of Chicago at that time was supplied with untreated water from Lake Michigan.
I admit to liking music that sounds good to me.
Footnote: I remember discussing car stereo with a salesman and wondering about how good a system could sound, given the high background noise in a vehicle. His response was that a powerful enough system could overwhelm it. But what about the quiet passages?
"We tend to like what we are used to hearing (or tasting... more about that later) so if your musical experience is with boom boxes and loud rock concerts, you might not appreciate a system that is highly accurate at modest volume levels."
My don't we have a chip on our shoulder! Equivocating rock concerts and boom boxes. Tsk tsk. What's so wrong with being highly accurate at _all_ volume levels? MOF isn't that what it's all about, getting things right over the entire range, not just the places where it's easy? Sure it's difficult to cover all the frequencies and loudnesses that we hear, but if one only takes half-measures, is it fair to call it "reproduction"?
I moved to Chicago about the time the Jardine plant entered operation, but know my Chicago history. I suppose that if you're over 100 years old and lived in Rogers Park or thereabouts, you might not have gotten the chlorinated water. I grew up in the north suburbs, and had access to many wells in Cook County forest preserves, old houses and even my grammar school. Good stuff indeed on a hot summer day. Running tap water through an aerator and letting it breathe in a pitcher all but eliminated any chlorine smell.
As for car stereo, the best kind has 4 or 6 cylinders per side making the music.
The water treatment plant for the North side of Chicago came on line in the late 1960's. Prior to that the water was taken from the lake four miles from shore and was untreated. This happened while I was away at college. My younger siblings have far fewer fillings because they drank fluoridated water as children. They brought the plant on line for a week before they announced it was running to prevent complaints that "the water tastes funny."
I always thought distortion in rock music was a feature, not a bug. My bad.
It may be apocryphal but I have heard that turn signals introduce distortion if you are low on blinker fluid.
Actually there are 9 water cribs off the Chicago shoreline, and several more north and south. I used to sail, and we used them for navigation. The 4 mile crib is no longer operational; just 2 cribs are left since the tunnel to the Harrison crib collapsed in 1998. Before the Jardine plant came online (in 1964 from what I read), the South plant, finished after the end of WWII, was the primary pant for the city. The whole city's water supply was chlorinated starting in 1916. There were parts of the city that were annexed later that may have had well water. The Jardine plant allowed the city to sell a LOT of water to the suburbs, and starting in the '60s suburbs shut down municipal wells and other water intakes. Fascinating stuff!
Distortion can be both a feature and a bug. It depends on whether it's intentional/desired. Since Rock is the most diverse form of music, it's hardly fair to pigeonhole it as one particular thing. From my perspective, choosing your music tastes to suit the limitations of your stereo is putting the cart before the horse. Forget blinker fluid, have you upgraded your blinker cables?
Back in the early '90s I caught myself doing just what Mark Levinson said, playing music based on the record label rather than what was on the vinyl. It disgusted me. I am just now to the point where almost everything sounds wonderful. It's taken over 25 years and required using, and sometimes making, non-commercial electronics and speakers. I guess that's what makes this a hobby instead of something you just do.
Same here. I've got thousands of records, and while I appreciate the Doug Sax Sheffield Lab direct to disc thing, I more enjoy listening to an old Vox Box of Chopin played by great pianists of the '50s and '60s. I don't even care about "mono reprocessed for stereo" as long as the performance is decent. Nothing like Furtwangler Bruckner, by the way.
Hey Steve, my first speakers were the JBL WX 4311 studio control monitors. I loved their sound. Nothing like it. All my friends were jealous. Except for the ones with Bose 901's. I preferred the JBL's.
In my living room i run
JBL Decade 36
Pioneer SA-8100 and i love it
Can you please elaborate on the details of the components soon? Thanks.
Congratulations Steve, you're figuring out that there's more to listening than the "through a glass, darkly" image that limited range speakers give. Yes, low end is visceral! Be it an electric bass or a 32' pipe organ, a kick drum or a tympani, the low end is a necessary part of music. If you don't have it, you don't have full music.
I've been out as a dynamic speaker preferer for a long time now, but I've spent plenty of hours sitting in front of ESL63 and older Quad speakers. Yes, the electrostats flatter certain kinds of sounds--namely sounds that aren't very challenging. In electronics there's a saying "DC to daylight" that's often used humorously to describe the scope of a project, or the desired response of a system. It's an unattainable ideal, but one that's worthy of pursuit.
When I got my first and last really good record player (turntable, tone arm, cartridge etc.) together, I noticed that the well bolted-together nature of it gave a "grounding" to the sound that came out of my speakers. Although records can't play back DC, there was a feeling that the music had a stable base from which it came. That stable point of reference made the music sound like real music. It required the rest of the signal chain to be equally competent, of course. With the right speakers, it was glorious! All the LF sound cues that we use without thinking in everyday life gave life to a lifeless medium. A link was established!
After digital recording and playback got over its teething period, the thing that made digital so great became apparent. No more fiddling with mechanics to get that stable reference. No wow or flutter or clicks or pops to break the spell. And so much _more_ solidity! With digital I could stop being an integral part of the playback process, monitoring this and that, and simply dive into the music. The key was all the bass frequencies that had been neglected and even shamed in so-called audiophile systems that emphasized sounding fancy over sounding real. Having all the clarity in the world in a limited frequency band and/or dynamic range was a poor substitute to having the clarity of a full envelope.
My first dream speakers had fiberglass cabinets made by Community Light & Sound and all the rest of the parts of the JBL L300 Summit speaker. Same drivers, same MF horn and the cool lens, same aperture tweeter. Without the parallel sides of the box, it was ahead of its time. I never got a pair, and Community have forgotten all about it. Pity.
Hes figuring it out, huh? SMH...
@ he was talking bout rock music with bass drums, bass 🎸, I.e. Zeppelin ( Which I believe he mentioned)
Couldn't agree more!
I used to have that with my 25 year old system. Then I changed the amplifier (integrated) for a latest model and much higher spec, great reviews, sounded good in the shop etc. The sound at home became mathematical and analytical and just difficult to engage with. Now I have to force myself to listen and try to convince myself its a good thing. More "audiophile".
I frame it like this: Some speakers leave me with a furrowed brow, stroking my chin and thinking "these are really nice". Then there are a few that just cause a spontaneous ear-to-ear grin. Those are the speakers I like!
Those look like the JBL300s. Awesome. Crystal super tweeters and horn mid-range, and paper 15 inch woofers
Finally someone who knows their shit.
Thanks for sharing this interesting thoughts! Now: which pair of speakers do we see at the title photo? For me as a designer speakers shouldn’t only sound amazing, they should look fantastic as well. 😬 And I mean these ones are on a good way when it comes to the look. 🤓
I also have JBL 166's and 4312's in my collection. Along with Quad 57's (two pairs), JanZen D130's and KLH Nines. Also Snell Type AIII's, E's and J's. Altec Santana 1's, Segovia's, Bolero's and Stonehenge 1's. Infinity 2000A's and Monitor 1's. Plus more ... to play with!
Sounds like you're describing the classic Apollo/Dionysus dichotomy.
I’ve recently learned about the Ohm Tall Walsh speakers via a CZcams review. Steve, how would you categorize those, I’d be interested in review.
@ How will they destroy an amp?
Some good thoughts there Steve. Problem now is I'm getting my head mixed up with my body...Nah I get what you mean, my speakers are in the head. Quite clinical. Cheers mate.
Yes, Yes, Yes, those JBL's moved me like they moved you. I was first struck by their ability to deliver volume without sounding like they were being played loudly. It was effortless volume, and detail which made the music just come alive. Then I saw the price, realizing I could not afford them. That was about 30 or more years ago, and I still can not afford them or the current JBL 4367 at $15,000 a pair which is the update, if you will, for the L-300. Maybe I'll win the lottery some day and get a pair, until then I've settled on what I perceive is the next best thing, a pair of JBL L100t3's; but, no doubt, not even close to the simply magnificent L-300s.
Yes, "effortless volume", a very desirable trait.
How they extend to 40kHz with dual 3" drivers is just wizardry.
eJacob Cornelius The L300 has one 15 inch woofer. I do not know how low it goes. My L 100t3s supported by a JBL B-380 sub will get down to about 19hz, barely.
The vintage gear had life and emotion, whereas a lot of audiophile stuff is cold and emotionless, pristinely perfect but lifeless sounding.
It's called "flat." Sure doesn't sound flattering, but when sound is uncolored, pure, and flat then you're hearing the recording and not the gear. I sorta like to hear the gear myself, at least to a degree. Miss my Cornwall II for that very reason.
@@russellhamner4898 I've tried to like the Cornwall and other Klipsch speakers but could never quite get there. Visceral feeling? Just the opposite.