Will Windows survive Y2K38?
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Thanks to Daniel Myslivets ( / danielm ) for the following idea!
Hello, my friends! Let's hit 20K likes? Check out my website! enderman.ch
Today I am going to discuss the year 2038 (Y2K38) bug and show Windows 11 is still susceptible to it.
Still got questions? Don't hesitate, send them to contact@enderman.ch!
Hope you have a great day!
#endermanch #experiments #windows - Věda a technologie
Meanwhile, I’m just here wondering why a media player needs to be aware of the date and time at all…
Delta time for some animations, perhaps?
It's a media player - it keeps track of when you last played the music.
Tracking the duration of music is quite simple (and it may be possible to defeat bugs that occur when crossing a time 'boundary' like the Y2K one itself _during_ playback), but you need the other stats!
m
@@Endermanch yes
Oh no, how will we ever be able to be able to listen to music or watch videos on a computer app that is is nothing compared to spotify or even youtube (of course this is what you think until there's no internet)
Can’t wait to see products with a “Y2K38 Safe” label on it.
voice reveal
@@vermamaerodriguez96He has videos talking
@@vermamaerodriguez96 what
and shelters being set up just like the y2k panic
New thing to look forward to
14 years isn't that far away anymore.
considering windows 7 came out more than 14 years ago and it is still in use in some places, not out of the question that in 14 years time this will still be used and someone will load up windows media player
What do you mean it's far away? Its a decade and four years!
@@Windfarmer that was the legacy windows media player. windows 10, 11 include the new windows media player 2022. in short you have two versions of windows media player.
Damm. Time flies.
WHAT
Fun Fact: CZcams max timer is 01/19/38 too.
JS can't do 64-bit lol
@@gargamel3478JavaScript isn't limited to 32 bits, it uses 64 bit floats, so yes it can't store a 64 bit integer, but it can handle up to a 53 bit integer perfectly fine
@mushroomcraft
I don't understand. Why does youtube use javascript to get the time instead of a server-side?
@@mushroomcraftDoesn't JS not have integers or are you talking about BigInt (which should represent larger numbers than Number)?
@@xrafter It's obvious. Why CZcams gonna have a server for checking the hour? They simply use javascript. Get the hour from a server it's so complicated.
"August 12 2036, the heat death of the universe." -Squidward
"The last remaining black hole has finally evaporated. The universe is now permanently in perfect thermodynamic equilibrium, and time no longer has any meaning."
- Mr. Krabs
I completely forgot about AI Spongebob lol
And If Photons Never Decayed...
January 1, 10,000, The Big Rip/Crunch of the Universe.
Loudward
I'm sure Dr. Jr. will find something.
The fact that Microsoft hasn't fixed their code so a Y2K scenario won't happen again is incredible, 24 years later...
Edit: I know it didn't happen and that they fixed it, the point I was trying to get at is that Microsoft hasn't thought of every way their code could be vulnerable after Y2K.
Never happened in 2000 LOL. You must have been born after 2000
@@ibapreppie it didn't happen because they fixed it so it wouldn't happen
@@sxjxthow did they fix it
@@sxjxt then explain how DOS machines from the 70s and 80s ticked over to 1-1-00 without needing a Y2K fix?
nothing happened because nothing was GOING to happen, it was just some unfounded late 90s fear of technology.
some poorly-built programs likely did need Y2K fixes but most were fine.
it’s just funny now how everyone was so scared that the entire world would catastrophically end over a date change, lol
@@Jakkilip Magic
Best part is, instead of fixing it, they'll likely remove the app entirely and push more paid codecs with their "new" one.
I mean, wmp11 is not the only legacy app that exists
Idk if they are gonna replace every old app they have, probably they're just gonna let them die, or if they are important then maybe are gonna update them
Honestly, this would be good. There are a lot of cases where never implementation is (almost) on par with old one, but both are still kept for whatever reason: old a11y and recognition stuff, some legacy cpl applets only accessible through control panel (I'd love to add the Control Panel itself to this list, but it is still somehow WIP after 14 years...), WMP, winver, other random Win95 apps just sitting in windir for no purpose...
bruh frosty why must i spot you in the wild RaccAttack
@@comfeytimid1207 meow :3
@@lmnk I wouldn't mind them removing most legacy apps, especially since a lot of them (especially from pre-Win7) will work just fine if unpacked from the install media and put anywhere. The worst I've seen so far is XP's Sound Recorder complaining about registry errors on start, but it still works perfectly fine even with that.
Though they at some point changed something and now most system apps don't work unless ran from their original location (probably why they fail to start on different directory installs)
This might end up being a bigger problem since, just like the old bug, there are thousands of important machines which still operate in old windows
Not for Microsoft. They'd love nothing more than to have a reason to push everyone to their new product. In the past nobody cared for their Windows 8, 10 and 11 marketing campaigns, but now all they have to do is to cause panic among the users telling them about the potential consequences of not switching.
@@PyroNexus22Oh, Micro$oft.
@@PyroNexus22 even they have to face this problem. there are likely countless programs which are coded for 32 bit, are used in very important systems, and have never been updated, causing said systems to be built around those programs. planes likely still run windows xp, how the hell will you update them to 11?
Thinking about doctor's offices that still use windows XP and vista... kind of scary
@@blikthepro972Windows XP? Try DOS.
This video just made me realise that 1901 and 2038 are the same distance to 1970 as eachother.
huh?
what
@@theDragoon007yaboiCJ The date of the 2038 problem is 68 years and a few weeks after 1st January 1970. The date that unfixed systems will then flip back to is 68 years and a few weeks before 1st January 1970. Probably a signed byte that can count the same distance in either direction from the arbitrary start point of 1st January 1970 at 00:00:00
Man the two people that cannot use their brains is just how sad and pathetic some people are it isn't that hard to understand bruh
That’s because the bug causes the integer that records time to be displayed as negative. As it starts in 1970, it will flip and count backwards from 1970 rather than showing time since 1970
I have a few customers that have multi-million dollar integrated XP systems that run things like medical and industrial devices. There's not much that can be done about this for XP... I'm worried.
Maybe by that point ReactOS will be a good alternative finally, or some other similar solution. Or it just won’t cause any major problems. Or you’ll have to run them with incorrect clock settings and have an external computer remedy that.
Why would they need the date though? Timers maybe if youre too dumb to just use any other timer but wtf is the use of knowing its 2038??
@@aarepelaa1142 Databases might store the start/end tate of some important task and may need to calculate the difference
@@aarepelaa1142 Do you not understand how computers work?
The Windows activation system is also sorta affected. The KMS38 activation method consists of using forged activation data to tell the computer an arbitrary expiration date(Normally KMS activations last 180 days before the server needs to be checked again). However it only works until Y2K38, it won’t accept a date further than that.
@@MichaelDustter Server versions of Windows don't support HWID
Anyone else remember how programs responded to the Y2K bug? I still remember stuff reseting to the earliest date it was programmed like 1980 or something similar. There was the occasional program that showed the year as 100 after rolling over from 99. You could cheese the programming error on some things (like VCRs) by just manually setting the clock back 4 years to keep the month and day correct or 28 years to keep the day of the week correct as well.
The only Y2K issue I ever remember seeing was in some home office software called Lotus Smartsuite, which followed the year 1999 with 19-100, 19-101, 19-102 etc.
I remember Sidekick for Windows, made by Starfish software, a company split off from Borland. It has some definite Y2K issues. I believe that different parts of it had different ways to represent dates internally. The last version apparently just dumped the features that wouldn't work.
Reminds me of the Y2K Debacle. Hoo boy, from what I've heard, it was a madhouse. Anyone who lived through that, please step forward, or rather, type forwards.
Lived it as a 20-year-old. The constant.. worry and fearmongering was insane. 'Everything will just stop!' they said.
We watched the ball drop, thinking everything would freak out at the tick of midnight... Lights would shut off, laptops on battery power would INSTANTLY BSOD...
And then, nothing. Life continued as normal. It honestly was a letdown.
@@BeckyAnn6879 thats because they fixed it before it happened
raelcnu snoitcurtsni
@@nothanks39 just spelled "instructions unclear" backwards. Still kinda funny.
@@ls190v2 thanks too lol,i'm kinda lazy to unscramble the words
If you round that time up, 3:14:07, you get the value of pi (at least the first 4 digits), 3:14:1
The perfect example of finding patterns where there really are none.
Coincidence! I think Not!
Lol
btw it is 3:14:08
πo7
Good to know Windows will end on my birthday
me too lol.
for me its a day after mine
It's a great birthday present
bru it's my birthday too💀
You know it's not just Windows, right? This applies to pretty much any desktop, mobile, and console operating system.
The "spinning circles" you see on Windows 8/10/11 is just a font called "Segoe boot semilight". Let's see if we can modify the font to make custom boot animation possible
Naration is a new style for you, but text boxes have their own good feel equiped with old NCS music.
He's done plenty in the past but yeah the subtitled ones are definitely the most common. Really nostalgic would be doing the subtitles in notepad.
I prefer text box style the most. When he made his first video with narration I wouldn't watch it because there was no text boxes.
Not only NCS music, he used a bunch of Geometry Dash demon music too
@@-PRPTL- yes, that's good too, like nightkilla and other music
i like the naration because then there are no text boxes that cover the screen and also his it is more watchable
I had a friend who was doing search and rescue in the most remote part of Australia and his GPS sht the bed on Y2K. Imagine that!
i like to call it Y38 since windows used to use the last digits of years in their older operating systems, e.g. windows 95, windows nashville (which is called windows 96 in the wikipedia page) and 98, but Y2K38 still works
Don't worry, everyone will be running Windows 38 by then 😂
Windows 2000 kind of counts too, though it's not 2 digits
@@gairisiuil yeah thats why i didnt mention it
Y2.038K?
@@TillyOrifice since K means thousand in most cases so that would be the year 2.038.000
Big fan of the Year 2038 problem, happy to see some love for it here ❤
Although it was very silent and it was kept under wraps for many years contrary to popular belief Y2K did happen to many companies and computers, to anybody who didn’t fix the problem before January 1st.
in extreme cases a nuclear plant in Japan activated a emergency alarm and a few people around the globe became millionaires for about a couple seconds do to interest rate being calculated wrong.
To be fair, the classic Windows Media Player from Windows 7 is mostly deprecated. Windows replaced it as the default component with another platform built off of Groove Music.
I've never liked the new player, kinda hated how every time you boot every new w8/10 app, they show like a loading screen, it doesnt take too long, but it was just enough to annoy me every time
I feel like they are wasting my time
The only reason why im not using the old wmp anymore is bc just recently moved to Linux xd
tbh i liked groove music more than their windows-11ized buggy mess of the modern media player
i still use it, but if it crashes i immediately use media player
foobar2000 supremacy
@@DccToonI think they were talking the og win 7 player
Hi andrew, i just visited ur blog and i really like ur trivia or rant about windows especially about the win context menu. Please keep writing more whenever u have something interesting to share!
Thanks for running the poll and adding the narration. It is very pleasant to watch and listen, in my opinion. ❤
the fact there are still MANY computers running on older windows like 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 can be a bigger problem than y2k
Windows 10 will always be superior to windows 11.
7 and 10 are far better than the current crap that is the win11. Heck, even win XP is.
Besides, 11 is literally a reskin of 10, but all of the good things from 10 were deleted, and the bad things were preserved. (and some amplified)
8.1 and earlier is better by far than 10 and 11
That's for enterprise users. Normal versions like Pro have support until 2025@@bananatoofat
@@bananatoofat k.
Hey Endermanch! Love these kinds of videos where you do a voiceover! Keep working on your amazing content!
dude this is pure nostalgia watching your videos again. you were my childhood dude i used to watch your videos all the time man.. ty for the memories!!! im so glad i found you
please do a 'how to completly remove/uninstall copilot form your pc'.
Your Videos Are Really Good and you made me start programming. Good work😃
that problem is still 14 years ahead of us, they still have time to lay it off for now
Nice video! You can explain really well and calm! Keep going ❤
Love how you are doing commentary because sometimes the videos are hard to understand unless I use .25 speed on CZcams
The Unix timer starts at 1970, but Windows doesn't use that. Third-party applications may use it at their own risk.
Windows uses SYSTEMTIME, which is a structure that has separate storage for year, month, day of the week, day, hours, minutes, seconds, milliseconds, but not offset. Your application has to know whether it's local or UTC. That depends on whether you called GetSystemTime or GetLocalTime.
Windows also uses stuff like FILETIME, which is similar to Unix time, except instead of seconds from 1970-01-01, it's 0.1 millisecond intervals since 1601-01-01, so you can have correct timestamps on your files from the 17th century!
There's also DOS date and time, which use parts of two words with a year offset starting 1980.
I believe this affects older implementations of the c runtime library and c standard headers. But i don't see why it would affect the windows nt kernel or windows operating system itself. Windows uses 64 bit structures holding the time since 1601, rather than unix time.
The way UNIX kept time was through a 32-bit counting system. This 32-bit system, which remains the standard for modern computers, has been counting forward from 00:00:00 UTC January 1st 1970. This counter has a finite amount of seconds that it can count up and down to +(231 - 1) and -(231 - 1), which is equal to 2,147,483,647 seconds going both ways. 2 billion seconds may seem like a lifetime (and it is), but this system will still count its last second precisely on 19th January 2038, 03:14:07. Unable to detect times after 03:14:07 starting 03:14:08
I'm copied from Wikipedia to CZcams for the detailed information.
@@JumbieLove290 And yet you still added less.
Awesome video
Could you maybe make a video about the Windows 7 Classic theme, Basic theme, the Windows 8 Aero Lite theme, and DWM with the Windows Theming engine being almost old as the 9X days?
honestly it's hard to watch enderman videos without narration so this is really great
The Y2K panic returning wasn't on my bingo card, I'm pretty sure there will be a few new versions of Windows within the next 14 years that will fix this problem
A few months ago I encountered my first real 2038 problem and I expect to run into quite a few of them. This one was more a headache to figure out rather than a crash, but it’s no joke and not just for a media player.
Thats quite interesting, I thought they fixed this a long time ago
The switch will have to go through Y2K61
Panos: it's not my fault!
I love the snapping, where you snapped every half second to the timer that was going every second.
so for us on older OS we will need patches that turn the year into 2 digits rather than 4 while keeping the bit count the same so the displayed time is corrected but only shows the last 2 digits of the year to ovoid the issue.
Holy shit you like Opeth? My favorite band! Love your channel even more now 🤩Still life was my first cd
Serenity Painted Death is absolutely euphoric to listen to! Mikael's growls are the best
@@Endermanch Say that word once more, and your home will cave in.
Cool Video
In college, in my second year programming course, we implemented and "infinite integer" using linked-lists in C++. It could use the entire stack for the clock that way. All arithmetic computation could be done on these items.
Amazing video! Just one small criticism for your other videos, sometimes the music can get wayyy too loud, even on minimum volume.
My birthday in 2038 is a bad day to code???
windows media player has been remplaced by uwp app, what do you mean
The Movies and TV app
It was replaced, but the old media player is still there and some people prefer using it
windows media player legacy, the old one from windows 7
@@nolemretaw all the way to Windows 8, and 8.1, it's still in Windows 10 but i think it was removed now on Windows 11.
Windows media player is good for flac an mkv but for h265 ur fked
Once a time Wine wasn't working on my default Linux user. When i investigated, there was a single file with modification date at 2045 breaking the 32-Bit datetime on Wine. Wine64 was still working tho.
It could potentially cause problems. Not with your computer (or certainly not whatever devices you will have in 2038), but some 32bit satellites from 2000s/Older MRI machines etc.
I've always wondered why they store time stuff as a single number instead of doing it like the time is displayed (i.e. separate int for year, month, day, hour, minute and second. And I guess milliseconds and nanoseconds if your RTC is precise enough and you need this precision.
I know the amount of RAM in the old computers wasn't that great, but we've moved past that. And even on the old machine it would be reasonable, since you'd need to separate time units anyway to display the time in a human-readable format.
As for how you'd count the time, something along the lines of
if (seconds>59) {
seconds = 0;
minutes++;
}
for each time component would be enough.
windows actually has 2 types, 64 bit int and the thing you just described
it looks like they forgot that windows uses 64 bit time and they even used unix epoch time which is very interesting
also it's just easier to count time as a single integer
@@_kitaes_ Yes, it's easier, I admit that, but then it leads to issues such as X year problem (replace X with the year the integer overflows). My solution avoids it completely at a cost of little more memory consumption and a little bit more CPU usage (mostly due to the branching), but with modern RAM capacities and CPUs it's basically free.
The reason why it would never overflow is that with each time component stored in its own variable, none would even go anywhere near the overflow limit. Stuff like days, months and obviously stuff like hours/minutes/seconds could be stored in a single byte each and with the kind of calculation as described on my final post, would never overflow because I have yet to see a year that has more than 255 months or an hour that has 255 minutes. And even stuff like years or milliseconds could be stored in 16-bit integer - it will cause a year 65536 problem, but by that time we'd have a new kind of calendar anyways.
Or- get this- we use one int64 (that's two int32's) and get to use the much-easier-to-work-with unix time for the next few hundred billion years.
Computers don't care about how we arbitrarily divide up time. It's a LOT easier to just work with one unit. Much, much easier to just convert it to something human-readable if you need to after.
Time handling is complicated with tons of edge cases. It's just much easier to work with a single monotonic unit. You don't want everything breaking because somebody didn't account for leap seconds or daylight savings time.
@@eDoc2020 Then just account for those. And you have to account for those anyway, even with a single time variable. Again, as I've said, you already need to break it up into singular time units (hours, minutes, etc.) to display, where you need to account for leap years and seconds, and the DST. So why add more work?
i have been watching you for years and i just now noticed im not subscribed so im subscribing now also i love your videos they are so interesting
I love hearing you talk! Keep it up
Kinda interesting windows media player cares about unix time. Unix time as far as I know has no real meaning to windows, but if it's using the unix C standard libraries like time.h and it's using 32 bit time_t for this then that would certainly trip it up. Thankfully, this is just adapting windows's own time base to unix time and not the whole OS being screwed by it.
On the plus side linux as an OS kernel and userland stack is pretty much prepared, but many applications will certainly struggle. Especially closed source ones which could never be fixed.
I think very few open source projects will have an issue with this. All remotely common C stdlib headers have been fixed and 32 bit systems use a 64 bit time format.
Proprietary apps are probably the only thing that'll have issues
@@mgord9518 yeah, even abandoned projects should be relatively easy to fix for the larger time_t. Some maybe just needing to be rebuilt.
By this point, perhaps AI based tools will be able to patch a number of closed source binaries as well.
@@mgord9518 With enough effort (maybe even AI, what it will be then) it probably will be possible to patch proprietary binaries.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 stuff like ghidra is probably already using ai pattern matching or at least has plugins for this. There's already a lot of traditional static analysis algorithms too. Probably stuff that can pick up on functions doing time related calls to the underlying OS and determining what types are being used.
Why didn't they fix the Y2K38 bug if they know that it exists?
they did, in time (unless you mean Y2K38)
@@jacpa2011 oh sorry just typed it wrong, edited the message
@@suchy.chomik ah okay
They'll fix it eventually. 14 years is a long time in the tech world
Looks amazing! 😊
Really love these types of videos
14 years lmao
so sick hearing your voice for the first time, forgot y2k38 was even a thing tbh, i thought the mayan calendar drama was the end of the fearmongering. super glad i get to live to actually see an end-of-the-world scare similar to y2k
i remember coming across your channel a while ago but at that point you didn't talk so i kinda just skipped the videos
I love that you are now narrating the videos, good change.
Great vid man 👍
Thank you for voiced videos.
the video being narrated is nice!
Enderman, i need some help.I wanted to launch a virtual machine with VMware, but when i make the location to D:, it can't create the disk, because "Windows10x64.vmx can't be found", but in the normal location, which is C:/Users/Daniel/Documents/Virtual Machines/Windows 10 x64, it hasn't even created that folder yet.Can you help?
u r my ideal enderman...! keeep it up👍👍
Nice to hear you!
Can't wait to see y2k38 products
I will be wonderring what windows can handle that year
Enderman,you are my best fan ever! I started doing videos about computers like you because i wanna be like you!
good video! keep the good up! :0
My bios setting went crazy previous year. Like, it has something to do with memory leak, the date show 30028 which is impossible. I didn't realize it before, my windows went nuts 100 cpu usage all the time and really bad loading time during startup even i'm using nvme
Can you try what happens to Windows if you remove the critical process flag (ProcessBreakOnTermination value in the PROCESSINFOCLASS enumeration) from the csrss.exe process and then terminate it?
If the OS is Windows 7 or earlier, there is no process protection by PPL, so you should be able to modify the flag from user mode using the NtSetInformationProcess system call if you enable the SeDebugPrivilege privilege (Please correct me if I am wrong)
Thanks in advance!❤
I wonder if someone will release patches for older OS's. My backup gaming rig is on Windows 2000. I play a LOT of old games that were never re-released digitally, so there's no way to play them except using the original hardware, or through a virtual machine.
So wait, couldn't stuff like this be simply updated to fix it? like update the time while resetting the integer? Or is it more complicated than that?
Woah, this is my first time hearing your voice. I used to watch you a lot, Your videos are always high quality
so, overflowing to 0... does that mean my windows-running PC will just tick back over to the 1970s? hell yeah I'd like to see that
nevermind what the hell 1901?
No. It will simply crash then. Because no program is made to go back to 1970s again.
or either increasing it and making unix to be from year 2000 or making 128bit cpus, or using large integers
That's the legacy version of Windows Media Player. The new version in use since Windows 10 likely works perfectly fine.
They could just prevent this from ever being a problem by just incrementing a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th counter everytime the timer is about to overflow. Basically 6 variables:
timer=current date
counter1=0
counter2=0
counter3=0
counter4=0
counter5=0
if(timer=32/64bit integer limit)
{counter1=counter1+1
timer=0}
if(counter1=32/64bit integer limit)
{counter2=counter2+1
counter1=0}
...
A 32 bit clock with 6 variables handling time will last 6.2771017*10^57, which isn't even calculatable, and goes well past the heat death of the universe.
Heaven forbid you use a 64 bit integer limit or simply add 1 more variable.
bro this is an ancient 14yr old app included in windows. in less than 3yrs they will remove it. people just blindly believe other people even if they were dumb and made really stupid mistakes.
@mrfoxesite I'm talking about all cases like that, even in the future. Or just make one update for all Windows PCs that all users can install(and if you think noone uses XP or 95, may I interest you in... the government?
yes ik but i'm in india not USA and also MS will not do that. but many parts of xp's source code leaked 4yrs ago so unofficial patches can come.@@AlexanderScott66
a u g u s t 1 2 t h , 2 0 3 6 : t h e h e a t d e a t h o f t h e u n i v e r s e .
Will this heavily effect Windows XP? And can’t I just set the time to like say 2014 in like 2038 to make stuff work again?
setting the time to something like 2014 while you're in 2038 will cause SSL issues and your pc won't be able to verify websites
Watching Enderman's videos makes me feel smart
Where can you buy that clock? it seems nice.
I miss those videos with text bubbles
So just setting the computer a year back would work temporarily
Interestingly an unsigned 32-bit value is good until 2106, so it's really just poor calculation implementations that will be the problem. Wonder if humans will still even be around then...?
Thanks for your help Clock
Pretty cool Enderman!
Hey @Endermanch, do you still use Windows 10 on your daily driver?
Make a video on VMWare's XSAVE error, and how to trick/hack the registry to delete the error.
"On January 19th, 2038, 03:14 AM, Skynet launches a massive nuclear attack on its enemies..."
"What enemies....?"
"US..., HUMANS!!!!"
well guys get ready to experience the new y2k bug
In 15 years the number of machines still running a 32 bit OS like XP, will be rare.
The number of 32 bit programs will be low.
Just like the DOS software I used in the late 80s, I don't use any of it now.
It just won't be a big deal in 2038
Interesting but not surprising, though im pretty sure they got time to replace these programs, or update. 👍 The y2k thing was insanely funny to me, i knew computers back then though, the way tv pushed was my first intro to full on fake news.
great video, but please, i beg you, set your mic track to mono next time! 😩
What about installing Windows into USERS (or specified user) folder?
4 videos in a week?? thats a blessing
Great video!