Are C'Tan AUTO INCLUDE for Necrons Army Lists? Nightbringer, Deceiver, Void Dragon + Transcendant
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Let's talk through the c'tan shards and how they stack up in game right now... CTan seem hard to go wrong with!
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0:00 Intro
0:42 C'Tan Shards in Codex Necrons
4:12 Deceiver
6:47 Nightbringer
8:57 Void Dragon
10:45 Transcendant
13:10 Support?
15:48 Outro - Hry
Worth mentioning that the nightbringer lost blast on his gaze which is far better as he can now shoot into and out of combat
Excellent point, you were ideally never pointing it at a blob anyway.
oh perfect! Good spot!
Ooo, very good catch! That's the type of change that gets missed
Void dragon is an auto-include in every list simply because stylin on your opponent that hard is like winning just by showing up.
Void dragon got so much drip that he could make the infinite warp an ocean
One thing that is slept on with the void dragon is that it is the only model in the entire army eligable to heal 4d3 in your turn. Meaning if your opponent failed to kill it, it has a strong possibility (under optimal conditions) to heal back to full. Absolute nightmare fuel.
Last week I played against a friend's marines and my Dragon survived an Oath of Moment volley from every single gun in his army (Lancers, Repulsor, Executioner, 2 Dreadnoughts and all the rest), surviving with 1 single Wound.
I was just about to tell my friend how badly he fucked up because I had 4D3 health coming back, then he remembered he didn't fire his last Hunter Slayer missile. Of course, I rolled like shit and it killed the Dragon. 😂
The same scenario now would see him survive thanks to the 5+++. I can't wait for the rematch!
4d3?
@@jacobodajbura8829 Yup!
• 1D3 from Reanimation Protocol.
• 1D3 from a nearby Reanimator (before the 3" nerf 😢).
• 1D3 from the Matter Absorption Ability.
• 1D3 from a nearby Technimancer.
The potential is amazing, and I was so close to pulling it off!
The ctan have always been my favourite part of necrons so im SO happy they are increadible now
I used to dislike them when they were first released, but they've grown on me. You can't have an undead army without at least one spooky ghost.
@@alltat More than ghosts mate, they're their bloody Gods and were the main stars until the retcon back in 5th edition.
This is why I like buying kits that are considered mediocre, and then getting them painted without necessarily playing them, because now I have a nightbringer ready to rumble from the getgo.
The only edition where he was "mediocre" was 7th. If you've been playing long enough you will have the model no matter what. See, what only surprises me is that GW keeps him relevant in spite of most people already having bought a kit almost a decade ago; Space marines have probably rotated their entire army in and out of existence 3 different times over the same period.
@@icholi88 he was fine through 8th, 9th and index 10th, but not taken competitively very often.
Yeah I randomly bought one during 9th and painted it up kinda synthwave colours with a spiral galaxy painted on his cloak. He's probably my best painted mini so it's nice to find out he slaps.
So disappointed we didn't get new models for deceiver and night bringer. A stand alone for transcendent would have been nice, too.
C'tan win with them, C'tan't win without them.
Take my angry like you monster.
This weekend I went to an RTT and played someone with 5 ctans. My 6 crisis with 2 plasma and 1 CIB with commander with 4 CIBs didn’t do anything to them. A previous game killed 6 aggressors, apothecary, vitrix guard and a wound on calgar. I do think there needs to be a cap for ctans like Tau commanders in previously editions.
It seems potentially suicidal for Necrons to bring so many as there's a risk things could go awry if so many were able to unshackle themselves. They're a "bring only in dire circumstances" weapon. Bringing 5 is just silly.
Yeah some kind of 1 per 1000 pts max would make sense... i do feel 5 c'tans can be outscored if you have the right army for it though...
Breachers are quite good, use the grenade strat, then 30 shots hitting on 2, rerolling if you have tetras, wounding on 5, rerolling hopefully, doesn't quite kill one, but doesn't take much to finish a c'tan off, two squads will deffo kill one in a single turn
Nightbringer is auto-include regardless of detachment for me. The transcendent will make it into a lot of my lists. I may even buy the deceiver (or a proxy).
Well I was thinking about the good old nightbringer but after this am definitely thinking of sending him up the board with a technomancer and 6 wraiths with claws and particle doofers and just make a horrible blob of death. That's gonna be disgustingly hard to kill and when it gets in it'll probably kill anything I want to die 😅
I think if i had an aspect of god, i would probably bring it for battle (just in case)
The Norn Emissary/ Assimilator are 290 and 310 points... what a joke
I ran all of them with TSK and a monolith in a 2k list in the Hypercrypt legion. Black templars scored a solid 13 to my 93 with battleready included.
XD sounds balanced. Tho i guess bt did what bt would do and didnt try to outplay you on objectives.
@@Amdor they couldn’t, they kept dying.
Included 😂
I got Void Dragon simply because the model looks cool and I'm stoked that while already being good, he got even better.
I'm so happy to see that my Nightbringer is good again
Been playing the three named ones most of 10th and this just makes me want to use them even more 😁
The deceiver is way underated. I was playing against vanguard marines and the deceiver could see the barrel of a lieutenant but over half of his base. We got the whole club round to vote on if I had LOS and they said yes. Then I oneshotted the lieutenant and crippled a key unit.
i really like the ctan even rules aside, so once i get some wraiths and immortals, gonna grab some of them
I plan on using a Void dragon in any list I have. Maybe a Nightbringer if I have he space. One thing to note is 10th edition is very vehicle and monster heavy. It seems like more than half the factions benefit more from going in hard with heavies or mobile vehicle units rather than battlines. (Necron warriors being an example as weak battleline atm). I think it’s safe to assume you’ll see vehicles in a lot of lists yeah?
The Void dragon (besides being the tallest C'tan) is hard to move with some terrain layouts. Night Bringer and Deceiver have kept their 40mm bases. But that 80mm on the Void Dragon is going to give you some issues. For instance, to go around a wall you have to make sure the entire base clears the edge before turning. The fly key word only helps with unwanted combats. It's a liability more than an asset.
Not Deceiver, but the others….yes. They’re very good. Nightbringer kills big stuff. Void Dragon kills hoards. Transcendents’ teleporting and general damage output is great!
While Wraiths are hard to kill they don’t do much damage. C’Tan do.
I'd say that wraiths are hard enough to kill that they may even be worth just taking fixed secondaries with cleanse and engage on all fronts, and not worry about how to move around for secondaries.
@@musicalcharge oh I’m not disagreeing. Wraiths are fantastic. My point was more; like Wraiths, C’Tan are hard to kill, but unlike them C’Tan also kill very well.
@@StephenHenryIV or just take two c'tan and twelve wraiths and have fun!
This hurts my brain. Void Dragon used to kill stuff and Nightbringer kills hordes. Now it's swapped?? GW is weird
@@musicalcharge or 3 C’Tan and 12 Wraiths….which I’m totally not doing *wink wink*
Going to run a Trazyn and his (4) Poké'Tans list tomorrow. He wants to be the very best
Well, time to kitbash up a C'Tan that I could use as any of the 4
was it not in one of the last updates that they said you take first the 6 damage then FNP nd hats left gets halfed ?
These guys and Imotekhs new mini is tempting me to start Necrons
Don’t. Necrons overall are trash, worse than 9th
I'm actually enjoying the Canoptek Court detachment.
I love my Void Dragon, and i would play him every game, but my group mostly play 1000 points, and I feel like no one will want to play with me if i bring such a unit to every game 😄
On a different note, i feel like Imotekh would be a good indirect support for them. Getting that extra CP to spend is great value for units that doesn't have specific detachment rules or leaders.
I love the Void Dragon against Tau, Mechanicus, Space Marines and such as i drop him in and wreck whatever vehicles or tanks. I use the Nightbringer for Chaos and most other forces. So I interchange them.
From where does the FNP originate? I don't see it on the datasheet?
thanks
How does the Nightbringer's 'Necrodermis' ability interact with Damage1 wounds? Does it need two Damage1 wounds or does this abilitie half the damage to a minimum of one?
Method to deal with this 3 ctan + 3 transcendent ctan in a 2k game?
to be real, minimum 2 ctann in whatever combination might be auto include in a 2k points list this edition, if FAQ's dont mess it up like they usually will. Now if only GW would update more of the ctan models and possibly create models for some of the other named ones they would be sitting pretty high on profits
So… how do you deal with these things?
Specifically, I’m playing Salamanders in the Firestorm Assault Force. My friend only has the Nightbringer. I have Eradicators, but they have to get really close. I guess a Gladiator Lancer or two? Nothing I have seems like a really good way to check this guy.
Try to feed him some junk units
14 attacks scary, but there 0 rerols 4 him, so two squads of 5 man intercessers or some other 2w 3+ guys may keep him from go out in to ure back line
But yeah, there no stable way to deal with him right now
I am a guard player, so i just feed him my platoons each turn
Glory to the first man to die!
@@rukusrenus"ill die for the Emperor or die trying" eh? ;)
I don't know if you have a way to get a lot of Lethal Wound shots, but (if I did my math correctly) it would take an average 96 of those with rerolling to hit from Oath.
I am going to note that with Devastating Wounds it would take an average of 122.
I've heard some people have started playing a whole bunch of C'Tan as a necron monster mash
luv more Necron vids 🥰
I ordered the dragon cause he looks cool and because he’s getting a nice buff he’s gonna be so much better
I bought my mates Nightbringer last year for a reaosnably cheap price, since he never did any work for my mate. Suffice to say, the Nightbringer is always the star of my games now, he must like me more. :D
Angron is screaming in rage after you said that the nightbringer is better than him, but yes... even if angron can possibly take it down at full health is still a big if given all those defensive buffs, the best thing I found out as best to bring it down is a unit of berzerkers+kharn with at least 8 berzerkers and sustained hits+lethal hits and the +1 to wound stratagem
Could you do a damage comparison between the four? Sure the void dragon is the best for anti vehicle, the nightbringer is the best for anti monster/ tank but the damage output between the 4 for all respective units would be Interesting. Would also help me decided between the void dragon and nightbringer lowkey.
I feel that the Nightbringer wins out on just average damage output, and grossly outperforms everything else in regards to maximum potential damage output with that mortal wounds aura he's got.
@@archer9480 see I thought I’d agree too but that generalist voltaic storm attack is pretty solid for clearing out chaff and some elite units. Like a five man terminator squad is getting 8 shots hitting on 2’s ap -1 2 damage each with a possibility of more attack cuz of sustained hits one. The spear if your throwing it into a monster will be shit but in melee I’d say the void dragon got him beat again just being a better generalist. Sure you’re wounding on 4’s for the strike but you got 5 of them to do damage which is D6 plus 2 I think? Idk I think it’s close call but the list you build will decide on it for sure in my opinion at least.
@@xxofameousgxx9686
I'm willing to agree to that, sure.
But I will still insist that the Nightbringer does the most damage in terms of "creating the ideal scenario to do the most damage physically possible." Namely, by filling the area that consists of his mortal wound aura with as many individual units as physically possible.
I want to play a 100pt game with two c'tans. Objectives be dammed.
I feel like kitbashing the Nightbringer would require a Nagash, which is going too be more expensive.
they have a Primarch Level profile at the price of a basic heavy tank
Put a Void Dragon in a guard line 3” away and smile.
Yesterday i dealt 20 damage with my Nightbringer on a Dreadnought (it was a high role) but damn shit was Crazy
How do you actually kill these things?
Me, who uses ctan shards as much as I can and now has been blessed by GW
That is a bit out of hand - giving them a 5+ FNP? I think a 6+ FNP would go along decently well. Can you imagine Khaine with a natural 5+ FNP? People would flip out
just fyi the deceiver having dev wounds and anti character is pretty good as most significant units are led by a character and so gain the character keyword even if you aren't allocating the wounds specifically to the character model.
Played my mate Monday he had night bringer and void dragon took alot to kill them and they killed alot void killed 2 forge fiends and half of ten chosen with lord and 5 noise marines night bringer killed 5 chosen and full squad of cursed cultists and dark commune over 3 turns he was bogged down in them
The Nightbringer and Deceiver work well as a team. Other ones, probably will leave at home
Could you elborate? I would Like to play NB and the Deceiver in the Hypercrypt Legion but i am not sure if i want to buy the Deceiver
@@supremecourt4131 The Deceiver redeploy helps so your units such as C'tans, Wraiths, and Immortals can target their ideal foes sooner. C'tans and Necrons in general aren't very fast so it helps quite a bit. The Nightbringer is also specifically good at killing vehicles/monsters and the Deceiver specialized vs Infantry.
These guys are stupidly undercosted
I appreciate the canon power level.
Yes.
Our group necron player runs as many as he can ALL the time.
Sounds like he'll playing by himself soon then.
They where, imo, close to Auto include before. Before the thing that held most back where points and the fact only the Transcendent could get a FNP. But the fact most are worth less or the same as before and most got buffs then yes they are a auto include imo.
yeah my buddy always ran one last edition and it was always scary.
If you want to play a FUN List, they are a MUST use…. I was using them prior to the new codex (not that I was winning tournaments). I now have a four C’tan list I want test, running three to the central scoring zones..not sure what to pair them with, maybe some scarabs, spiders and technomancers. Best to have fun with them before everyone buys them and GW nerfs them by cutting the strength or increasing the points by 40-50 each.
Chaos Knights pick up 3 Ctan per turn pretty trivially
What are you smoking mate
Here is the math into any ctan including 4++ 5++ and halving damage
Brigand
Melta - 3.9 wounds
Autocannon 1.1 wounds
Havoc 0.1 wounds
Karnivore
Tank shock - 4 wounds
Melee - 1.6 wounds
Havoc 0.1 wounds
edited to fix the math
@@John-po9vg
Lore accurate
+4 invuln with ++5 FNP plus half damage is a bit ridiculous. They are already a pain in the ass now it’s going to be worse. They need a points increase or some dialing back because they will be way too strong
I'm just wondering if I can play C'Tan as Necron mini-knights. Take each unique one, 3 Transcendents, and fill out the list as necessary to make it legal.
I think the points work out that at 2k you can't fit all 6 plus an HQ that can actually be your warlord.
EDIT: You CAN take all 6 but you can't take all 6 plus the Monolith. It works out to 1965 and our cheapest warlord is 40pts.
@@TheH0ff Well, Maybe 6 C'Tan, the stormlord dude who just hides and generates command points, and a bunch of annoying scarab swarms would work.
I guess it’s codex “settlers of c’tan” for the next few months till they get nerfed then lol
I'm still recovering from nightbringer in 9th. I never want to see it again
It wants to see you
@lebambam4347 and it, like many exs, can hold their breath waiting
@@NornQueenKyanightbringer will be seen everywhere especially in hypercrypt in tandem with the monolith.
@@_Lemor2008_that's what I'll be playing but as I'm non competitive I will absolutely keep the teleporting cheese to the absolute minimum, like once at the very most in dire circumstances.
Wow good to know I’m never winning against these things
it would be just silly not to take nightbringer. he is just so damn good. which really bums me out cause I can't find his model anywhere.
It's online only, you gotta buy it from GW directly
yep)
For anyone wanting to use the Nightbringer but not use his crusty old kit, Lady Olynder from AoS is a near perfect conversion so long as you get a 40mm base and remove her ghost attendants.
I am fairly certain a 5+++ does not equal a 50% durability increase, that would be a 4+++
It is a 50% increase.
For simplicity, let's imagine you have a 10w model. You need to get 10 total wounds through to kill it.
Give it a 5+FNP. To kill it now, you need to get 15 total wounds through, because it will ignore one third of them with the feel no pain. 15 is a 50% increase over 10.
@@PF_K Owned.
Nope. A 4+++ is a _100%_ durability increase: for every wound you take, you deny one, meaning you need _double_ the wounds to go through your entire health.
In before the points increase. 🤷🏼♂️
Still waiting on GW to send my pre orders....
I’m praying for all the necron players to one day finally get their updated Ctans so they don’t have to deal with this garbage that isn’t the void dragon.
Looking at these C'tan and then looking back to the Hive Tyrants/Swarmlord, who're like-priced and it's a real kick in the pants how much better these fellas are. Boy, they really, REALLY over valued those little CP powers (and then made zero points corrections after they nerfed the hell out of them).
There's pretty much no chance that these don't see point increases in the January dataslate. They are grossly overpowered for their cost.
Pretty much everything else in the Necron codex sucks however, let us have at least SOME really good units
@@swinegods I don't begrudge Necrons getting good, powerful units. C'tan should be strong. My complaint is that, for the same points, Tyranids get absolute garbage (that then gets their points jacked higher despite rules nerfs).
You just need one unit with lots of shots and letal hits and they die like flies... Toughness 11 and basic save 4+ it's worthless when you have to save 20+ hits with autowound...
Like flies? With their fnp, reamination...i dont think thats the case
Your best save is 4+, save it 20+ times after one unit shoots at you with damage 1, lethal hits, AP nothing weapons. You cant reanimate if your dead and you cannot reduce damage bellow 1. Once your opponent see this your Ctans will die all the time.
@@andresaguilar723how many of your weapons have that many lethal hits though? Not enough to take out a ctan without a significant investment
He's right saturation fire is the key. 2 Necron players in my group and I throw Oath of moment on it and a unit of 10 Sternguard with a Lieutenant to get the lethal hits. If the shooting doesn't take it down the following charge does. Wiped the nightbringer off the board in one turn the last 3 games with just that unit.
@@tyhar7493 that is exactly what happened to me hahaha
I was already running a Void dragon, and i would love to run a nightbringer if it didn't look like ASS.
You forget how easily Lethal hits hits with damage 1 takes down a C`tan. Totally bypasses the half damage reduction. It`s not crazy durable, it`s just okay durable. Also you will never take the Reanimator with only a 3 inch range now. It`s just not point efficient anymore. It needs to go back to 9 inches.
how strange... the wh40k app shows scythe strike profile still d6 dmg... am i being crazy or wht
I will run one in every list until they nerf them to the ground next year lol
The new codex is even more motivation for me to kitbash a deceiver/transcendent
It’s actually so shit how much better Ctan are than greater daemons despite being same price (Ctan cheaper and better and more damaging and durable and heal)
At last the true lords of the Necrons are right where they should be. At the top of the hierarchy.
Nightbringer is the most auto include thing in the book... dude is just a brick of i'm gunna murder you. he's possibly the best erm that's gunna be a problem unit in the game and you can stack quite a good amout of firepower around him that is another problem and frankly if somebody wants rid of him they gunna have to committed a stupid amount of firepower into achieving that or they are gunna ignore him and just have to take it off him...
As much as I like them, I think now they are a bit too much. I get that they are enslaved gods, but the reanimation protocol AND FNP 5+ is too much on top of 4++ and half damage. They aren’t even a distraction carnifex, it’s a “feed them trash units until the end of the battle”. My opinion obviously so I can be wrong
Do they get reanimation protocol?
yes @@Captain1nsaneo
I'm glad the C'tan got this buff. I remember meeting deathwatch and getting my "faster" Nightbringer get MELTED by a load of D3 shots. Definetly needed.
Are they? Probably. Am I going to? Nah.
How is it ok they are this cheap and this strong? Avatar of Khaine isn’t this powerful and cost 80 points more.
GW WHERE IS MY DEATH GUARD 5+ FNP WE HAVE NO DURABILITY
GW: Death Guard are all about being resistant to pain and thus hard to kill.
Players in 10th: Why are my DG dropping dead from lasguns?
GW: Death Guard aren't about durability, they are about whittling down people via attrition. Where did you get they have durability?
I have a 500-point Hypercrypt army that features the Void Dragon, and I have to say: he is horrendously strong against armies that small. Being able to teleport helps with the fact that he's literally more than half my army, and he has only died in one game so far.
Is it controversial to say that playing against these near invincible gods isn't fun?
Ctan should be among the strongest models in the game
Yes, but currently they are the most broken.
Wew
I hate them. But at least there aren't any damage caps anymore. As a world eater player, that was utter hell.
I don't get it, two weeks of necrons suck and all of a sudden a unit may be broken and the world is happy.
Love how they replaced one of the two problem units with an even worse one and made the other even more powerful. xD
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When the rest of your roster is mid at best. Yeah 100%. C'tan are the only overtuned unit rn.
All these nerd Ctans getting a 5+++… really looking good for the Avatar getting a built in 5+++ now when our codex releases haha
They'll probably go up 50 points in Jan and GW will make them unplayable. I'm a pessimist and GW usually proves me right
Even +50 points is a steal. Should be more like 400; they have more durability than primarchs.
Well, at 310p the nightbringer is arguably better than an avatar of khaine for 335 so fair
nightbringer is 255, and is not better than avatar of khaine.@@swinegods
The fact the night bringer and a squad of Hellblasters cost as much as the Lion is ridiculous. GW just wants to super charge the Necrons so much to overthrow the Eldar
Can't wait for people to complain once again about "unkillable necron units" and have it get nerfed to the ground again. God forbid Necron units be tanky.
Being tanky is one thing. Being essentially invincible is another. Being stupidly killy is something else again. Now make it dirt cheap, and you've got C'tans right now.
I mean - Guard, _the_ artillery faction with an artillery-tailored detachment and rules, can get a +60% increase to its artillery while sitting around 40% WR because "artillery is toxic", so.
C'Tan are too cheap and extremely op.
If things are auto include, it means they're overpowered. Not good for the game, pity ppl are incapable of being objective.
In reality necrons in general suck and these ok.