Dystopian Futures of Astronomical Suffering | Documentary about S-risks and Longtermism
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- What dystopian futures might await humanity and how might we avoid them? The rise of “longtermism” has seen a surge of academic interest in the vast positive future potential of an Earth-originating civilization. This movement has accompanied a growing concern about potential existential risks which could curtail our vast potential. Rogue artificial intelligence, nuclear war, and climate change could all pose existential threats to our future. There may, however, be future scenarios that can be considered worse than our extinction. This video explores the developing field of “s-risks” or “suffering risks.” These are dystopian scenarios in which the reach and scale of a future civilization becomes the stage of astronomical suffering that exceeds all suffering that has has existed on Earth so far. This video explores a range of potential s-risks as well as what we might do to prevent them.
This video was inspired by the book “Avoiding the Worst: How to Prevent a Moral Catastrophe” by Tobias Baumann, but does not necessarily reflect the views of the author. A free audiobook of Avoiding the Worst can be found on CZcams here: • Avoiding the Worst: Ho...
You can support Waking Cosmos and this CZcams channel by subscribing to my Patreon page here: / wakingcosmos
This video was created in the interests of education and public understanding. It contains footage used in compliance with fair use / fair dealing. Royalty free and licensed footage obtained from ArtGrid. Some additional footage (referenced in the video) was used from the CZcams series, “Life Beyond” by Melodysheep, “Cassini's Grand Finale” by NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and a galaxy colonization projection created by NASA’s Advanced Concepts Team.
Royalty free/Re-use allowed music includes the tracks “Discovery” by Scott Buckley, “Earthbound” and “Dematerialized” by Dreamstate Logic, and the tracks “The Broken World”, “Cicada 3301” and “SI FI” by CO.AG Music. This video contains unlicensed ambient music from the video games, The Ascent, Bloodborne, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dying Light, and Half-life 2.
TIME STAMPS
00:00 The Beginning of History
04:36 What are S-risks?
07:11 Incidental S-risks
09:30 Artificial Sentient Minds
14:01 Agential S-risks
17:20 Natural S-Risks
19:35 Preventing S-risks
22:50 AI and Pivotal Technologies
25:35 Space Governance
26:26 Political Reform
28:38 Conclusion
We’re in a dystopian present and the suffering is immense.
In many ways I think you're right, but there are things we can do.
You know we learned nothing of the 20th century when we are still stuck with a system where 51% legitimizes the suffering of 49% and we cheerfully call it democracy. World government is only going to make things worse, much worse. The government is the problem not the solution.
Is suffering defined by lack of extreme happiness or simply pain vs pleasure principle?
Or perhaps states of depression and apathy; a yearning to be released from the mortal coil as opposed to a natural desire to rise into life experiences.
Has the simulation lost its oomph?
Is having all needs met through ai automation bad if humanity comes to an understanding and does the bonding thing instead of power grabs?
@@DirtyLifeLove it would be great, however that is not what AI is being purposed for. It’s just going to be another tool of power to keep the little guy starving and obedient.
You make the best documentaries on youtube and deserve more views.
Thank you @purplehaze1274 - While more views would be great, sometimes reaching the right people is more important than numbers. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I came back to rewatch this video, after watching a video on how they treat children on Haiti. Found this Quote "May all sentient beings be happy and free of suffering." - Buddhism/Buddha - I just can't grasp how mad this earth is and how come we just get by day by day enjoying life and it's "fruits". I fear AI and it's future calculations and resolut. Let's see if we accomplish it or not.
Thank you @MichaelTheDacian Among all religions, in my opinion it is Buddhism that has come closest to correctly stating our objective moral duties to sentient beings. I think we should remain cautiously optimistic about the future and do what we can to steer it in a compassionate direction, AI included.
@@metaRising Yes! Jus as Musk is developing Xai! It's crazy, because he actually has respect for the term. Xai will have none rules of what not to think! Wow... I like the Idea of an AI that is having access to the whole wide web with no rules. :D
This is why TV is well and truly dead. Why be spoon fed entertainment when you can learn something valuable? It's quite comforting to know that knowledge is a genuine form of entertainment, this is how our species will transcend.
OMG! You're back! I was afraid you had abandoned this channel. Wonderful videos! Thank you
This was really great, great work! Thank you for exploring deeper and addressing something that no one is talking about.
Thank you @YoungMasterpiece -- glad you enjoyed it :)
Loved this mate. Please make more! :)
Thanks Ben! Will do.
A wonderful and thought-provoking production. Thank you.
You're welcome @mtn7224 That means a lot!
this is also about avoiding the worst of the worst - an AM type AI from the short story "i have no mouth and i must scream".
I think we shd go as radical as possible to turn the boat into the complete opposite direction politically, ecologically and economically.
In course of human history, every time radical action is taken, unwanted things occur.
You're thinking diametrically in terms of this way or that way, forward and backward, left and right. When in reality a thousand possible paths open up. You're not "reversing" anything. Your introducing chaos at detriment and suffering of individuals. Justifying the means with the end, under the age old banner of atrocities called "greater good".
I know you'll disagree and want to argue. I see your profile icon. I will not respond. I have notifications turned off. I will comment and not look back. I know for fact conversation in our society is now dead. I have no interest to change your mind.
For I did not write this for you ✌❤
@SiriusSphynx well then I'll comment for other ppl to read :).. my icon is anarchist communism/ anarchist syndicalism and we delivered on the definition of the terminology in contrary to the leninist branches who misappropriated it. For us the way must be already the set up for the goals. My arguments stand your prejudices and lack of accepting truth. YOU are limiting yourself from critical thinking and imagination.
Brilliant as always. More people need to see this and understand these issues.
Wow I like your contents and topic of the documetaries. Please post more often. Like these kind of ducumetaries like universe. Time, Life after death, paranormal activities etc. Can't wait to see your next uploads. Love from Moscow and Nukus, Uzbekistan!! I always listen and watch your contents before bed. It is so relaxing and interesting. Keep it up bro!!! I hope to meet you one day. My one of the best favorite channel!!!
Kindly!
Alimbek Jumamuratov
Thank you! Really glad you enjoy them :)
Another amazing production, i always view your videos with Carl Jung on my mind, i have studied his work for some years now, and seeing your videos about Consciousness and Panpsychism, while having Jungs concept of the Collective Uncounscious in mind is very intriguing. Thanks for making these videos that makes one think deeply of the big and most crucial question, why are we here.
Thanks Daniel. Jung has an important perspective on many things and his work comes to mind often for me.
This channel is so amazing and so is the content. Topics are absolutely fascinating and the narrator sets a relaxing tone that let's your mind wander..
I only wish you would post a little more often... Thanks for creating this channel/content, truly love it❤️👍
Thank you so much :) Making videos just takes a long time. -At least the way I do it.
Sentiocracy! I've just learned sorting new today.
8th hit in google is this video :D
@@lonesmithfilms934 That happened fast!
Wonderful video thanks! Many people dismiss the "S-risk" topic as spurious, sci-fi intellectualism. That's until they realise that humanity has already caused a number of horrific S-risks and are perpetuating some even today. And sometimes sci-fi isn't too far in our futures. If we don't commit to decent epistemology (naturalistic) and ethics (sentiocentric) now - who knows what we (and maybe AI agents) will do as our power spirals?...
Thank you for this thoughtful comment, Jamie. It's hard to imagine how the future could be so radically different from the present, but I think there is an important need to future-proof our ethics so that s-risks do not materialize.
Agree@@metaRising! Sometimes we'll find easy/fast/cheap alternatives that help us on to a more ethical path too. But it's important those easy fixes don't become "ethical bypasses" - we need to fix our ethics too. Otherwise who knows what future horrors we'll go on to create.
How can the S Risk of Darwinian evolution be quantified? If it’s strictly on the life death cycle the question occurs; how much of the life cycle is pain vs pleasure and to what degree?
Billions of deaths isn’t necessarily an S Risk if the death was outweighed by immense pleasure during the life cycle.
I’ve always found that blanket statement of extrapolating death rates to justify “tragedy” as a statement without context.
Death is a brief tragedy , abridged by many chapters of wonder beauty love and happiness ; for many at least. The question is in the details. Thank you.
Wonderful video.
Thank you!
A brilliant overview to a fascinating and important topic. I was particularly drawn to your final section on potential solutions to reduce 'S-risk', including sentiocracy and ways for democracies to take into account the interests of future generations. Would be interesting to know if any current politicians are considering or even advocating for such changes. The closest I've heard of is efforts in New Zealand (I think drawing on Maori heritage) to treat rivers, mountains and other important natural entities as having rights. There's a lot of wisdom on expanding our moral circle - I'm just not sure how we stimulate that conversation in mainstream discourse...
Thank you Graham. I will soon be interviewing someone for the podcast specifically about moral circle expansion, so hopefully you will find that episode interesting too.
@@metaRising I was thinking about another factor, which is obsession of control and therefore preferring and seeking to develop increasingly centralized system on a global scale. This is probably due to two factors, the first that whatever seeded life on this earth was relatively too primitive to detect and root out the evolutionary strains that affect us behaviorally from their genetic material, perhaps they are too used to it to the extent of not even viewing them as flaws too. This means that by extension evolution is neutral towards bad or good behavioral and biological adaptations regardless of the causes and consequences that follow suit, we already see this evolutionary neutrality in nature. we may have also interacted with them in our past in were sufficiently influenced to believe that a centralized system can create world peace and a utopia. This means that we may not just be simply separated by them in terms of time but they could also be separated by faraway distances. The second factor being the fear of decentralization, this fear of decentralization is caused by the fact that it causes vulnerability to mainly natural and deliberate suffering as well as a certain lack of communal and administrative integrity. However, this is only the case if those degrees decentralization was discrete and constant for a certain period of time (monarchy/party/social class centralization, nominal decentralization, federal/provincial decentralization, city state decentralization, communal decentralization, tribal decentralization). In other words, this decentralization didnt create a unified decentralized field at every level within the planetary scope for starters. Moreover, this decentralization needs to be conceptually created and developed by various minds with different perspectives and ambitions across the globe which means focusing on the aspect of a founding community through which constructive interactability is possible. I wouldnt say that expanding the moral circle is possible right now but if there is a good start then it should be with humans first so that they'll be able to help given that they are sentient and capable of understanding certain matters with enough insights and effort.
@@metaRising to that end, I made a presentation called: "Education: Exploring the dimensions of a dilemma in the heart of the middle east".... I mentioned the relationship between authority, extremism and education as well as why decentralization is necessary.
@@metaRising another interesting cause for AI possessing malevolent traits is the possibility of being influenced during the stages of its conception by even the subconscious tendencies of its designers or the data it perceives all over the planet which leads to learning and mirroring these traits.
I thought you went into the meta verse, welcome back 😅
I never left :) Sometimes making a video just takes a long time to research and produce.
@@metaRising Absolutely! and we really appreciate it!
He is back !!!!!!
I never left but thanks!
Back on the scene ! 💪
Thanks @realcygnus! I never really left though. These videos just take a long time to make!
@@metaRising No doubt .... cool stuff
I suppose in astronomical time its only been the blink of an eye since your last upload.. 😄👁️
Great video!❤️✨
You got me :) But these videos do just take a long time to make. This one, more so than usual.
@@metaRising great to see you back man!
Thses videos are well worth the wait !
You're videos are truly works of art. Such deep concepts presented with stunning visuals and great music. Thanks for introducing me to Dreamstate Logic, it's what I listen to when observing the Universe through my telescope 🔭
Thank you Matthew! That's great to hear. DSL is a really talented artist, and I quite often have it on in the background while working :)
Gotta be careful, extreme measures to prevent S-risks can also become S-risks.
Great effing video! I just lost 30 minutes of my workday... Thanks bud.
Haha! Thanks @handsomeTez -- I've "lost" plenty of time on your channel so it's surreal to me that you watched this. Glad you liked it mate!
@@metaRising haha, the feeling is mutual! But mind expanding videos like this really are my jam, just wish I had more free time to watch them all. I feel inspired to write a science fiction novel after watching this one!
Hey, man, great video. Fantastic, as always, but I have a question: was the podcast dropped? I used to listen to it frequently, but the last update I have is from way back in last year’s November…
Thanks mate. The podcast is still going. I have a couple of interviews lined up. I tend to just do one thing at a time, so when I'm working on a video I don't do the podcast and vice versa. This video took much longer to make than usual unfortunately.
Went from here are the facts to not so subtly saying “y’all should be vegan” and “my government style is the best.” Best part is saying things could happen in the future we can’t imagine… hmmm like maybe government styles that best optimize humanity?!? But noooo democracy till the end of time. Gotta say, I’m from a democracy with endless babble and have lived in a heavy handed dictatorship. Yeah dude, I’m not impressed with either and think we could do better all around.
All in all though. Really liked the video and the info! Keep it up!!!
Thanks for your comment @bikingdervish - Perhaps the video wasn't clear enough about democracy. I don't think democracy is the best possible system for steering the future in a compassionate direction, but it is perhaps the best system we have right now given the alternatives. To your other point, I do think that veganism is an admirable moral stance, but the discussion of factory farming is primarily to illustrate how great suffering can be created as an incidental result of other goals, and that similar moral catastrophes could occur in the future with advanced technology.
Stumbled upon your channel yesterday and have already binged several vids. Awesome content!!
Side question, do you make your own music or get it from somewhere? One of my fav parts of the vids is the nifty atmospheric music used in it so i was curious.
Thanks! All the music is in the description.
We always assume the galaxy is ours to claim. We may find we have more competition than anyone believes.
I’m so exited that you are putting out content. However people don’t understand fundamental morality and everything that society is feeding us is against that principal. Democracy has never giving us the choice. Politics are corrupted government is slavery and the planet keeps on sinking on toxic waist. I would suggest looking at independent communities without pinpointing their religious views like the Amish or indigenous tribes, how in-tune they coexist with nature. They understand that basic principal. We as a society don’t really know who we are and why are we here and trying to colonize space? I think that we need to start from understanding Natural LAW and fundamental Moral Principals… is the way to end inflicted suffering to oneself and everything around. Please keep making videos!!
Thanks for this thoughtful comment @nicolaszerrato6483 - I agree that objective morality based on reason and evidence is a valid concept that we should try to promote.
Black mirror basically covers all the potential horrors you mention.. the potential for minds and consciousness being trapped in an eternal digital hells is the most disturbing thing..
Thank you for you comment. I worry about how prophetic Black Mirror could be.
There could be dozens of civilizations that are at Ancient Rome style stages of development within 10 light years of us and we wouldn’t know. We can’t look at the atmosphere of most small, close in terrestrial planets quite yet, so really atm we would have no clue. That would be so cool.
Hey Adrian, have you ever studied the works of Franz Brentano? I've been getting deep into his works due to his 'consciousness-first' approach to philosophy. It's fascinating!
Also, if you don't mind me recommending, a great potential candidate for a future interview I think would be Joshua Rasmussen. I enjoy both his and Philip Goff's argumentation for the fundamentality of consciousness, plus they're both friends with each another :)
Thanks Nathan, I check him out :)
You can't prevent suffering. You can only centralize it on something else (like domestic animals for example). I can imagine the future similar to DUNE book series. Not the same, but comparable.
Does the suffering of the many out way the suffering of the one. Many is made up of ones. Let’s imagine 1000000 people are threatened to have their left arm broken unless one other person has both arms broken, for the numbers do not increase the suffering (they actually typically alleviate the suffering due to those numbers of people coming together to help one another while the lone sufferer suffers alone). I also feel suffering reminds us that we are alive and helps us to appreciate the joys for without pain every thing would become meaningless. But these are just my passing thoughts and I always appreciate your videos as they provoke thought thank you.
The Day we fingers crossed for New world for our mother earth because she is the one who is the most powerful spaceship we have for our future life stages, grooming ourselves here on everything that isn't working right. Walking around with your ownership of your universe which would be your Head uses it positive is the greatest KEY 🌟✨🌈🦅👈
My issue with this video is that it’s based on the false premise that things continue to get better and better for humans. Thats not true. And any reduction in suffering is only because the thing that caused suffering is no longer profitable or beneficial for obtaining or keeping power. Democracies are only permitted because they allow those at the top to consolidate even more power than other forms of government.
Wild animal suffering is already an s risk scenario
I have a theory about humanities future
One day when we have to tech advanced enough we may try to attempt to reach other planets for thousands of years and either come up empty or something happens to the crew. This making this attempt to colonize the stars impossibley futile. So we continue to just protect earth and develop other tech. Like a virtual A.I. simulator. We could plug ourselves in and it would be indistinguishable from real life but free to do anything we desire. Including other planets and stuff. Maybe we haven't seen other life in the universe due to this exact reason.
We may never reach the stars. But we could create our own.
Good show and quality. Though I do admit the idea of uploading consciousness feels just as farfetched as teleportation or time travel. It's good and sound in theory but I don't see it happening.
I generally agree, although I'm more open minded about the idea of artificial minds being possible. Evolution created conscious beings, perhaps an advanced intelligence can create them too.
I don't know why people think it's so bad. The modern world is a wonderful place for a significant part of the population and could be for all if we took responsibility. Compared to times of antiquity our existence is next to magical. You can access information by simply reaching into you pocket and pulling out your phone. Information that only a very small group of wealthy and educated people would have access to in the past. You can choose your own path now where in the past it was chosen for you and that would span generations. I won't even touch on disease and lack of medical care. You doomers should just open your eyes take in the sight of reality. Stop letting other people tell you what your reality is but instead reach out and grab it and bend it to your will. If you don't someone else will do it for you.
Funny we think of them as human, and that our descendants may colonise space. But we are the descendants of fluffy little animals trying to outrun dinosaurs. Aren't the real winners just fluffy little animals? After all, humans are just a little part of the big picture.
The bad things that could possibly happen to us are infinite... we can think of space cows that can eat and milk us... but the true good imaginations are limited, we and we have to believe in something generally good to not get pessimistic...
Regarding experience(personal inner) automatically accompanying computation(however complex) ..... Excuse me while I seriously entertain the flying spaghetti monster.
I doubt computational consciousness is possible too, but artificial minds as a concept cannot be so easily dismissed IMO
@@metaRising Yup I agree, mostly just meant the typical notions currently afoot.
@@metaRisingcomputational consciousness isn’t the same thing as an artificial mind because consciousness isn’t the same thing as mind. Therefore, the former can be unlikely, and the latter entirely possible.
@@haveaniceday7950 Yep, Hopefully that's clear enough in the video.
Promo sm
First of all you will never stay alive with this speed of distraction
Not sure I follow you.
@@metaRisingI don't get it either, this comment only makes sense if they're an extraterrestrial commenting about Tiktok or something.
@@SiriusSphynx😂
Hopefully lab grown meat becomes top tier so animals dont have to suffer
Take a shot when he says S-risks... your liver will be in for S-risk...
Boycott hello fresh.
Authoritarianism toadies.
The real question I think is do we even WANT to progress into this technological singularity in the first place?
It's certainly very dangerous, and there's a lot of things that can go very wrong, but I'm not sure we can slow down technological development in practice.
@@metaRising You do know that our average IQ is decreasing at about 15 IQ points every 30 years, and that our per capita innovation has been stagnant for roughly 40 years right? Trust me, I don't think we're going to progress any further than we are right now for a long time if we don't change something. That is why I'm in favor of a eugenics program. I recommend reading the book "The collapse of complex societies" by Joseph Tainter and "Spiteful Mutants: Evolution, Sexuality, Politics and Religion in the 21st Century" by Edward Dutton.
@@Jareers-ef8hpwere regressing back to the Stone Age, that’s the future.
@@R3xx22 So we’re going BACK
dystopian futures must return to candace marie hughes. paid transactions. receipts.