Panic Brake Test - Does Brake Pad Compound Really Matter?
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- čas přidán 23. 04. 2020
- We recently received a test bike with some brakes that didn't quite meet our expectations. After doing some research we realized that the bike brand spec'd a longer lasting, but also lower friction brake pad.
READ THE WHOLE STORY AND REVIEW HERE:
theloamwolf.com/2020/04/24/re...
After learning the reason why Cannondale made this decision with their Moterra eMTB, we reached out to Magura Brakes and requested a new set of brake rotors and their Performance (P) pads to do a before and after brake test to see just how much more power we could get out of them.
The difference on the trail has been HUGE!
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2ft. The difference between stopping before or dropping over that bank!
Haha. Very true! We've definitely been happy we've stopped 2 feet short of a rattle snake on the trail too!
There are many factors to consider. Speed and weight mainly. You're not sure on the same speed at each test. Besides, the wind against you is your friend.
Awesome test
Thx for this video in a different way: I have exactly these MT5 and issues with it. I mean this rattling sound when you hit the brakes with the performance pads. Looks like it is normal because you are at least not complaining about it.
We strongly recommend testing a Structure SCW1 in a comparo of this type. Pad type, rotor size, piston count, and suspension type contribute to big differences from bike to bike.
Very true. Even swapping forks would make a difference as the front end dive could alter brake power/weight bias.
@@TheLoamWolf or swapping Rider 😁
Really interesting comparison. I'm assuming the comfort pads are resin and the performance pads some kind of sintered?
Actually, they're both resin I believe but a different mixture. Also, wouldn't organic (resin) pads normally have more bite but fade more on long descends / wet weather conditions and sintered pads be more consistent (working better on long descends and wet weather but with less bite in dry conditions)? I'd assume the opposite of what you assumed based on that, but I might be wrong
@@Coerced it depends on the compound in the resin pad or I should say the ratio of mixture of compounds. This goes for any pad. There are so many different sintered brake pads on the market some are better than others there are so many semi-metallic and ceramic pads on the market it's all down to quality of compound and mixture ratios. 👍 personally I have found that galfer, EBC and Goldfren Center pads all work very well in all conditions. Shimano organic pads also are a very good choice. Ceramic pads I have tried include disco brakes and tektro. I would give the nod to disco brakes for the ceramic compound. Overall I'd have to say that the Galfer green (organic) pad is my favorite with the best results for all around riding. 👍
@@archetypex65 thx for sharing i haven't heard of Goldfren. I see they don't Lise bicy le brake pads on their website, only place I found them is on amazon, did they discontinue them or is the product so new they did not add it to their site yet?
Can someone tell me the songs at 1:56 and 4:47?? If you know one of them tell it as well
hello,i have disc brake pads on amazon,but im not sure it works or not,i want to give them away,i dont know who can help,can you give me some advice?
Very decent comparison! By the way what are the songs in this video? Can someone tell me please???
xo tour lif3 by lil uzi vert
Any tricks to get the speed sensor in a shimano rotor ? I can only find the direct mount ones with the spot for it. Thanks. Dig the content
Hey thanks a lot Jaffro. Let us look into that and see if we can find an answer.
@@TheLoamWolf I guess the new levo has the speed magnet in this little bracket that holds it. the older one it was mounted into the rotor, so was an issue.
I just received in the mail my set of Magura "race" pads. So I searched CZcams to see if someone dived deep into the comparison.. I got close. I still wonder if I should keep the "performance" pads or use these "race" pads.
Depends on how steep/fast your ride and your terrain! We'd go Race.
2-2.5 ft : The difference between walking away safely, or your head penetrating a tree . Permanently. DOA. Absolutely worthwhile.
Round about 16 Percent more Power with other Pads. I would say, more with special Pad-Set and Company and so on...
The difference in the results, reflects the way that you ride the bike 2-3 meters before entering the breaking zone. If you did the same for all of them, the results would have been the same (WIth MAGURA). Watch closely again....
I'm just starting out but on a loose train it comes down to tires ? How about do same test on a dirt ? Unless your trails are all asphalt...
We've replied to this a couple times in other comments. In "scientific" experiments, having a constant is important for testing and comparing. If we did this on loose terrain, there are many more variables at play beyond just brake pad compounds. (dirt erodes and changes after being skidded on 10 different times, traction inconsistencies, body could shift slightly causing back tire to skid more or less which also changes how long it takes to stop, etc...) By having constant, predictable traction on asphalt, we were best able to judge how much of a difference the braking power changed by changing pads. Hope that helps clarify.
I just set up my bike with disc brakes for the first time in my life and I get a lot of shuddering along with mediocre brake power compared to my trusty rim brakes. And yes, I bedded them in.
I'm running alligator windcutters with TRP spyre mechanicals which came with semi metallic pads.
I agonisingly tinkered with every aspect I could think of to get the breaking power up and to reduce the shuddering as much as possible. while I've made some improvements, I still have barely adequate braking power and unbearable shuddering. I had to retighten my headset as a result.
I'm scratching my head on this one. Do I need to switch to resin pads? Are wind cutters not compatible with the TRP spyres? Is this just something I should expect with disc brakes in general?
No this is not normal or what disc brakes should feel like. Sounds like a list of possible culprits. Depending on the level of frame could be brake mounts frame not being flush, could be your combination of parts warped rotors, contaminated pads even. I’d have a shop check it out as that’s not normal.
Brother, ideas:
Suspension locked out vs open braking.
Then once you've established the shorter stopping distance setup, you do rider and apparel/PPE only weight VS adding chassis water bottle, plus 2 bottles in a backpack with snacks, tube and multi tool braking.
Next, ascending seat position VS descending seat position brake test.
Thanks!
Those are Dynamic variables, as opposed to static variables switch would have smaller margins of error, that are going to change from Rider to Rider and from geographical/ geological Trail to geographical/ geological Trail conditions. Those are nuanced as well. And will also vary on skill level.
Trying to establish a baseline is very difficult when you consider the hundreds of different variables present in any testing. This pad test at best was mostly unusable data for somebody riding on a trail. Tires and tire compounds will also affect braking significantly. But at least if you test on a trail you can do back-to-back testing in different weather/trail conditions to try to establish a weighted Baseline.
Testing on one surface at one temperature with one tire compound is it really establishing much. It shows you the difference in performance from one brake pad compound to another on that same patch of Road, during the same weather conditions using that particular Tire and Rider of a particular weight. And that is all that test does it does not show conclusively which pad is better because they only tested on their one type of condition.
If you analyzed the data into a document using statistical analysis, accounting for the many many variables you would have to throw it out because it would be unreliable. 🤷🏻♂️
@@archetypex65 it will give a baseline in specific testing conditions, which is what all tests in human history are, just a specific baseline example. Thats all i request, a uniform test with the mentioned attributes.
You didn't need all those paragraphs, but thanks for dropping by. 👍🏾
Shift your weight back while braking and you’ll be able to grab way more front brake. You’re just dead sailoring for every pass. It’s consistent, so I guess the test is still valid... but if you want to stop fast, scoot your butt back.
idk didn't watch the whole video yet but the title says panic brake.
You're not always in the right body position when a car cuts you off on a chill cruise
@@luisla5269 If you can't get your body in the right position to send it on a gnarly trail, maybe you shouldn't be riding in traffic, either. Weight shifting is simply a part of cycling.
I chose this body position because its the most consistent and repeatable.
What compound is the best for lasting
Usually a mix of kevlar and ceramic for longevity.
Good job.
🤙🤙
Thanks very much Alex.
Yeah Drew! I dig these kind of videos that get into details that aren't often thought of. 🤘
@@1sgivens Thanks a lot Scott! Glad you enjoyed it.
I think the test would have been a bit more valid had you performed the test on a dirt surface rather than a paved surface. 👍
I have a chinese brakes and i weight 100+kgs and it brakes well only at the front
Color grading... Ehhh... looks like it came straight out of a camera which was set to "neutral" color settings, and uploaded straight to youtube after cutting.
Good thing we're mountain bikers reviewing mountain bikes not a camera and video editing channel then. 😘
They have even more aggressive pads. Magura race pads
The music is preventing me from taking the braking sfx :'(
Good video but the music has ruined it too loud
Great Video/Test nice to see how sram compare to a good Brake
Brake beading process is the same on vehicles this is easy for mechanics lol
sorry to be a downer. if you watch, he is pedaling harder with the old brakes then the new brakes. is there a difference? maybe not 2 feet.
Exactly Ron there are just too many variables and too many inconsistencies for this test to have any weight whatsoever. It was a good attempt a good idea but unfortunately fell short of accomplishing the intended goal.
review this bike!
3:37 affect* and brake* jeez
Amazing it took that long for someone to notice that!
@The Loam Wolf haha 11 months precisely 😅
This says to me that Cannondale is out of touch with the market.
And I would say to you that you do not understand the market. 🤔🤦🏻♂️😁. If they put the better braking system on the bike mosti bike riders would where the pans out in half the time or even quicker. They might even wind up glazing or scorching the rotors with higher friction compound pads. It wasn't some stuff suit in the marketing department that made this decision it was their engineers. And it was a good decision, regarding their liability and recall protocols.
I've worked at three different bike shops over the past 5 years and most all manufacturers make correct decisions based on safety, longevity and marketability. They'll Reserve their highest performance components to the higher performance bikes, typically the $7000 and up range.
You had the right idea but I don't think testing brakes and stopping power on pavement has any solid relevance on a mountain bike. Unless of course a particular mountain bike rider is going to ride mostly on the pavement. Testing on pavement rather than dirt skews the results, because there is more grip, I.E a higher coefficient of friction between the road surface and the tires on pavement vs dirt.
That’s exactly why we tested it on pavement. It’s provides the most consistent friction and braking performance. It doesn’t erode, rocks don’t move exposing softer or tackier soil underneath changing braking distance. Plus if we did the test in dirt, that wouldn’t help everyone because dirt in Phoenix isn’t going to slow down a rider nearly as quickly as the rich soil in Washington. So a person who’s never ridden in the other’s conditions may have a gross misconception of how the brakes do off road based on their experience of panic stop braking. It may take 25 feet in Palm Springs and 14 in the PNW loam. So pavement seemed to be the most commonly understood, unchanging option. We appreciate the input but we stand behind the decision to remove as many variables as possible and provide a test with as little variance for the broadest spectrum of users to understand.
@@TheLoamWolf yes, I totally understand your attempt at it. Sort of creating a 'laboratory' type environment, I.E. Consistent surfaces etc., to do the testing. But unfortunately it still doesn't really correlate to the trails. (Only because you haven't done the testing so it's unproven up to this point)
As you pointed out there are so many different types of trails and soil types. So really in the end you may as rely on brake tests performed in an actual testing laboratory rather than in the riding environment. Which, I am a huge opponent of any Laboratory Testing of any product. It is never going to translate to real-world results. Tire testing on a drum, aerodynamic testing in the Wind Tunnel, brake testing that doesn't replicate exact conditions in the real world, etc. Really doesn't have a lot of weight in a final analysis. If you accounted for all the variables and after smoothing the data the analysis is no longer credible. Like I said the idea was a very good, just unfortunately the results are probably not significantly credible. What would be interesting is if you did a similar test on different types of soil surfaces with the exact same bikes, braking systems and brake pads and then compare the results. 👍