High Mileage Cummins Turbo Dyno Test: HX35 vs Borg K27
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2021
- In this video, Will and Todd fire up Papa Saurus, the legendary 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 P-pumped 12v Cummins with 410k original miles for some turbo testing! Follow along as the team at Power Driven Diesel perform back to back turbo testing on the factory HX35 turbo and compare it to a Borg K27 drop-in replacement turbocharger.
Add one of these turbos to your diesel engine today: powerdrivendiesel.com/product...
Power Driven Diesel is a specialty performance shop engaged in the engineering and development of high performance turbo diesel technologies.
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This is why PDD is the best. They do more testing then anyone on the internet!!!!! Great job guys!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed
Please hurry and get the rest of these videos out so I know which turbo to spend my “free”government money on!
Tep
I'm glad to see you kept the headliner
I just got a k27, haven’t put it on yet and didn’t know a ton about it. This is what I wanted to see thank you!
Myer in the zone. The WHOLE team at PDD are great. Glad yall still do backyard wiring.
on my first gen OD started acting up.. I ran a wire out of the hood and into the door so I could continue on my trip.. I really should fix that right.. it's been 5 months!
Gotta love some good Ole 12 valve videos
Who doesn't love a good 12v video!
Way better than the banks CZcams channel! Raw uncut footage that’s not staged and real life situations! 10 out of 10! Keep it going!
Banks is in a different segment of videos. They do testing and dive deeper into the exact data for so many things. It really is not fair to compare the two channels. But the banks new truck built really is not interesting, I just skim those videos.
Banks does have interesting stuff too, but he's so against smoke he'd never win an all-out power challenge... If you want a good tow unit to put lots of miles on, I think his channel is good
Banks knows something about engines.
@@V8Lenny I don't doubt he's a good engine builder, but show me a truck of his winning a sled pull or 1/4 mile in a competitive environment against PDD or anyone else
these people seem extremely knowledgeable and down to earth. loving their products.
Super interesting! I'll definitely be watching the next video. Thanks for all the great work and information.
This is a much needed video!! Great Video love the comparison!
Fun, interesting and educational as always, well done!!!
Thanks for showing all the hard work that the wrench turners do behind the scenes!!! Maybe a truck meet in town this summer....?
Great video, can´t wait for the modified HX35.
I can't understand why this channel isn't way bigger than it is. Seems like you guys should have way more viewers.
It must be our ugly faces.... or boring content!
I just love these videos. So much great info and love to hear those turbos spool 👏🏼👍🏼👌🏻
Glad you like them!
So good, love this content! Can’t wait for my AFC Live to arrive 🤙🏼
Loving these testing videos, same fuel setup I’m going to run on my truck and I plan to run the 60mm hx35 so I can’t wait to see the dyno results!
Any results?
wicked. can’t wait to see all the tests. 👍
Thanks alot guys! Been wanting to see how the stock turbo did on your dyno for a long time. Better than I expected.
Glad you liked it! And we've tested many over the years, this is the best performing HX35 combo we've seen on a 12v for sure.
Can’t wait for the rest of these testing videos!
Tune in, more to come!
WE GOT INPUT SHAFTS, WE GOT CONVERTERS! WE GOT STOCK CONVERTERS WE GOT QUAD DISK CONVERTERS!!! LOL you gotta do that more often at the beginning of the videos 😆
Awesome guys !! This Is one of my favorites channel 😬🤘🏻
Glad you enjoy it! Keep sending ideas for testing!
Was waiting for this 😁
More to come!
Me too
A few years back I had a stock 12 valve and put a dual disc clutch in along with 5x.014 DFI injectors. Made 430 on the dyno at Scheid with a stock hx35. I was shocked to hear you guys say 3xx for power numbers for that turbo. Relieved that you got the same results, though! Thought maybe Scheid was blowing smoke up my butt lol
Great video, even Myer getting a work out swapping that transmission out. The in cab audio with Will and Todd with the fingers crossed we don't blow things up lol.
Good call! Myer works hard and honestly, after destroying so many turbos, engines, driveshafts on the dyno, you learn to cross your fingers before each run!
Great video guys, I love my k27
Thanks for another great video 😃
Quality testing and data ,don't own a diesel pick up or a 6bt but there's quality info in the videos.
Smack another torque converter intro Will, Been to long need the content lol
Nice, I've got a K27/K31 compounds on my Detroit 4-53TIB.:)
I liked how y’all used the same fuel to do a straight comparison but I hope everyone knows that the K27 can spool just as fast as the HX35 it just takes a little more fine tuning with the afc live but I loved the video and it was super informational
Glad you guys are doing these videos my next upgrade is a turbo and I’m trying to decide what to go with
Keep watching, we're going to cover a bunch of options in this test series.
I hope the aggressor is next! Great video guys!!
Us too!
I have the same exact fueling kit and the K27 (all from PDD) in my Chevy K3500. Tows our trailers very well, no complaints at all. I'm still trying to get the AFCLive dialed in but I'm really happy overall.
Good to hear!
Love the banks talk
Exactly
Older, but very solid video guys. I just spent several G for a littany of parts from PDD, and am putting together a solid 550hp daily, that will be going into my old Ford 4x4. I want it to be the trifecta of power, efficiency, and reliability. With lots more money to spend on the driveline, the ideal turbo will come later, and the stock HX35W I got will be it for a while. I'm stoked to see that it can get me to an absolutely respectable place, and keep up with (or exceed) modern diesels.
Thank you for your support we are happy to be part of your build!!
Ddp4’s and 20 deg timing with a cut fuel plate was a pretty standard 425 rwhp tuneup with an hx35/12. I always get more power with the wastegate working than with it blocked off. Love the testing! Wish you all would have set the dyno to try to have it hold a specific wheel speed and just kept cranking in throttle until a particular egt was reached and seeing what that power was. I hope you have a super hx40 to test. I found those things do really good on egt control.
Fancy seeing you here :)
For anyone who doesn't know Brian, go check out his channel!
Since I just swapped the hy35 for a k27 in my 24v excursion, I can’t wait to watch this.
The 24V guys absolutely love the K27, they are an even bigger power gain/noticeably improved driving response vs the HY35 or the 99' and newer 7 blade 54mm HX35 for the 24v guys with a manual transmission.
@@pddofficial I’m going to get with you guys soon for some tuning and supporting parts.
You guys are the best.. Iv been waiting for someone to do tests like these for a long time.. and you guys actually know your stuff so there is no debate.. Todd that damn camo headliner made it look like you were talking under a tree canopy in a few of your shots 😂
I honestly thought you were anywhere but inside the cab of the truck haha.
It's camo with Bald Eagles.... pure freedom!
@@pddofficial MERICA!!!
Need to get going on my cylinder head and turbo swap after seeing this!
I assembled my turbo with the 60mm 6 blade and a 10 blade 70x65 turbine wheel and it spools great.
The 10 blade turbine we plan to test is 76mm x 64mm and was commonly used in HX40 turbos.
A couple friends even ASKED me this question last week... Because I've had a K27 from PDD on my truck for a couple months now. Everyone wants to know 🤔💨💨👏
I bought a k27 loved it went straight to an hx super 9 with 62mm wheel love it more if you guys have time maybe throw it in there against an aggressor I think most when buying tend to go smaller to be safe like I did for towing I have 62 and tow heavy AF and have 0 problems 5x014, 025, 4k springs love it I want more.
Great stuff
I love your guy's vidoes.
Thanks!
Lovin the intros
Thanks!
Hell Yeah Brother
You must be a Cleetus McFarland Fan!
@@pddofficial motorsports in general but diesel is life...
This is exactly the video I’ve been dying for. I have a 95 3500 175hp pump. I’ve got all the mods you’ve got except afc live. I’m still with a zero plate. I have been eyeing up the k27 for my replacement but after this video it’s not going to cut it for the power I’m hoping for. I’m also at sea level so egt for me is much much lower
We are still fairly conservative on the timing. We suspect the K27 might be more of an upgrade when we test it on a 24v VP truck with more aggressive injection timing.
Id love to bring in my 96 dodge for you guys to improve.
Excited to see what the 62 aggressor runs, that’s what I’m running with similar fueling.
Coming soon!
I've probably been under estimating my HP levels for years. I have had 500+ worth of fuel with a HTT62/65-14 for about 11 years now. I have always called it 450 hp. I just ordered a 64sxe from you guys. I am hoping it will bring many smiles per gallon.
64...ohh ya!
Those 64SXE's run great! I suspect you'll see 50 or more HP increase with the new turbo and if it has the 68mm turbine, it will spool very similar to your old turbo.
@@pddofficial thanks for the info, I probably should have called and picked your brains, I've been out of the game a while.
I'm about to pull the trigger on your hxsuper9. Do the testing on that one PLEASE
Have you done a comparison between the K27 and the 362SXE? I’d love to see those graphs together.
Love the video and new information, you guys are great. What were the EGT numbers on the K27 compared to the HX35?
In towing setting around 335 HP, the K27 was 110* cooler than the HX35 and came in at 1190*F. At max power, the K27 was 100* F warmer than the HX35 and came in at 1800*F.
I’m surprised the K27 had a higher max temperature, is there a reason for this? Assuming the fuel is the same, I would think more air would be cooler but also it made more power and more power equals more heat.
You guys should test a savage fab super 6 60/67/6 on the dyno. Compare it with the k27 as a towing charger. My buddies lights faster than any turbo I’ve ever seen and will do upwards of 50 psi no problem.
lol banks video taught you hot air was bad hahaha I love you guys haha there's never a video where I dont at least smile if not roll around laughing haha
Are you going to do an aggressor 62? I have one and I love it. Put about 20k miles on it, made 50+ lbs before my stock clutch slipped.
Do you have a list of what you have done to the truck before this testing? What fueling mods and have you increased the timing? Thanks
I’d love to see some first gen dyno tests
Been doing some first gen heavy trailer test dynoing and egt stuff on my channel. Working on sustainable power numbers more so than peak race type numbers.
I just gotta say that k27 can get roowdy I basically maxed my waste gate and that forced it to blow 2 boots at once 😂 2nd get 12v with injectors, DVs and gov springs
“We’re testing drop in turbos...” 😂
Would love to see comparison of stock he351cw and he351 with 67mm 10 blade turbine upgrade
Yup, me too.. I build and run them, I think they're awesome, I have the he351 with a 67mm turbine and billet 60mm compressor in my first gen and really like it
I wonder what all the turbos they will be testing?
Would the K27 be a nice replacement for my H1E? The 12v 8.3 is a dog with the stock H1E it has.
I’ve got a 24v with 350k and have been scared to put power to it but now I think I’ll just put a tune on it from this video I can see miles don’t effect it
it's just broken in!.. it's everythign behind the engine you have to worry about
How did you guys connect the boost elbow to the K 27 it’s a different thread?
Y’all should compare the k27 to the he351 on a common rail
I wanna see the HX35 with the 67mm compressor, that makes a HUGE difference in them.. 12 vs 16cm housings would be interesting too.. I think it could school the K27 with a few little upgrades.
It's not quite drop in because of the different outlet flange, but I have a 60/67/9 HE351 in my truck and it's AWESOME, amazing spoolup and flows nice... I may build a 62 or 67mm compressor version of it
We have a bunch of hotrodded/modified HX35 and HE351 variants coming up, we too are excited to see the results.
@@pddofficial Perfect :)
I have a low mileage 2003 HO 6 speed manual with a 3250 DD and FASS. It's had a 66mm Silverbullet and Smarty on it since 2007 and looking for a change. (Non daily driver and never tow heavy, dyno'd 470whp max effort)
The 369SXE will drive very similar to your current 66mm Silver Bullet and will pick up power. But if you're currently running stock injectors, an Aggressor 362 will have much better street manners, make more torque, and still end up around the 500 RWHP mark.
This guy sounds exactly like Raymond lol
You guys need to put a 5" straight pipe and a cold air intake on that and show us its true numbers because come on.... No one is running a stock exhaust or intake these days lol.
Let's see a he351, savage fab super9 and a s362 tested as well
Lots more testing is coming, some of those suggestions are already planned!
Only ever had my trucks on one dyno and it must have been reading high because I “made” 314 hp with a 175 ppump, 3k gsk, and no plate. No other mods besides a clutch and 4” straight pipe
Is this a good upgrade for a stock 01 with hy35
How is the higher Horsepower hurting the transfer case which isn't talked about
You mentioned hot air hurting power yet I have almost never seen anyone running an intercooler between stages on a compound.... It's free horsepower most every setup just let's go 😕 I have a water to air between my compounds and it gains close to 10% because it also lowered the EGTs by 200° allowing me to add more fuel!
Space and budget are the excuses I've heard for it.
Todd has been running interstage cooling on his GodFather Race Truck for YEARS!!! And when everything is cut out and removed, plenty of room for ice/water tank, intercooler(s), etc. And yes, it does tremendously increase air density, almost like have another turbo or an additional stage of compression.
Stock IC’s?......blown up, leak it down and see! An extra ic? You’ll have half what the truck cost you wrapped up in ic’s.
Are you guys testing the HX super 9’s next ?
It will be tested, but it's about 4 turbos back in the line... we've gotta work our way up there!
I would want to see the hx super 6 in the drop in category testing
Of Course!
How about a K27 and S475 compound setup? I have a S300SXE with a S475 compound setup and would love to see the numbers of the K27 and S475 compound setup
We've hit nearly 700 HP with the K27/369sxe compound setup with a monster load of fuel. Your S475 flows similar to the 369SXE but with a less total drive pressure. You'd likely be really close to 700 HP with a healthy fueled setup.
Soo at sea level the hx35 would make about 450whp??
Im curious if the wicked wheel 2 on the hx35 would make a difference??
Sometimes the billet wheels add power, some times they don't. Really depends on the factory aero design and whether or not there is much to improve with extended tip technology, splitter angles, etc. But usually a lighter weight compressor will spool a little faster and therefore feel better on the street.
Just get the compound kit and make all the torque power
Do y'all have a Super HX40 for comparison? Don't hear of many guys running HX40's anymore, any idea why?
They just aren't laying around or found in junk yards anymore. There is very little difference on the HX40 vs the newer HX35 hybrid variants. Mostly just different stock compressor and turbine size... which is changed on the newer hybrids, and the 4" exhaust outlet AKA HX40 outlet.
What would be the point of dyno in overdrive as 3rd gear is 1:1 ?
I ran a super hx40 with 3pulse BD manifold on my 96 12v, also ran a full built ATS auto with 5star 5billit disk 2200 stall convertor, pump mods were #0 plate (cut stock fuel plate) slide 3/4 open, full cut Deliver valves, AFC tuned, 5inch MBRP exhaust. Truck was 1ton 4x4 ext cab long box dually
In our experience, turbo engines respond well to load (they produce more power). So we dyno in overdrive to create more load and generally coax a little more power out of the setup. We do not have back to back numbers on this test to show 3rd gear 1:1 vs 4th/OD 0.69:1 but in the past on 400ish HP trucks, we usually see 15 to 25 more HP in overdrive than 3rd gear.
On the big power trucks with over 1000 HP, we have tire slip problems in 3rd gear 1:1 whereas 4th 0.69:1, the added wheel speed helps tremendously with traction.
@@pddofficial
Thats pretty neat testing... running OD would plant the power. Also even in OD your running on the convertor anyways when locked so its the convertor taking most of the abuse
👍
What were the peak egt’s on the k27?
1800
At the end of this series you should do a cost comparison as well. Because if I have a perfectly fine HX35 why would I spend $300-$600 on a K27 for 25-30hp? But if I have to replace the HX35 and it’s going to be $400 and the K27 is going to be $425. Then yes the extra $25 for 30hp would be justified.
What's hard about cost information is pricing changes rapidly in this industry and a year from now there would be tons of upset potential buyers wondering why a year ago the price was so different than the day the video was posted. From a dollar standpoint, nothing can compete with a good stock turbo that came with the truck as long as it's still healthy and functional. But, for those needing to replace a hurt stock turbo, this cost effective option is cheaper than an OEM Holset and performs better.
What type of gauges where in this video?
they our our gauges powerdrivendiesel.com/product/pdd-gauge-package-3rd-gen/
What was the boost pressure for the k27 on the power run? Also what pressure can i run my k27 at?
It peaked out between 42 and 44 psi, depending on which full power run. Heat soak plays a part on these old trucks, along with trans temp, rear end oil temp, engine oil temp, all affect friction, turbo shaft speed, and ultimately boost. We've safely pushed a K27 to 51 psi, but we do not know how long they will hang in there at that boost level, probably wouldn't last 6 months on a street truck at 50+ psi.
@@pddofficial so running about 42psi itll be fine a street vehicle? Im in Australia altitude is alot less than yours
"This thing needs a new tranny..." *Pulls built tranny from the shelf and slaps it in. 😂
What mph, and gear do you start the pull in?
3rd gear at around 1500rpm for turbo's of this size.
@@pddofficial lock up switch and just roll into it and not shift up a gear ?
What were the fueling mods done?
500 HP Power Driven Diesel Fuel package, check out this video for details: czcams.com/video/00AQBYH8ZTY/video.html
What was the peak EGT for the k27 on the full power run?
1800 degrees peak for the K27, our video editor cut out the footage and we missed it on the final draft. So at full power the K27 was 100 degrees warmer than the HX35 but made 17 to 23 more HP and 3 or 4 more psi boost depending on which HX35 test run we compare it to. However, in our 75% fueling towing runs around 330 HP level, the K27 was 100 degrees cooler and picked up 4 HP over the HX35. So we were able to use almost 30 more HP (360ish HP) at the same 1300 degree peak EGT temp. To recap, the HX35 produced roughly 330 HP at 1300 EGT max with a 5k trailer loaded sweep, and at the exact same fuel setting, the K27 produced roughly 334 HP at 1200 EGT max. In a real world towing situation, the K27 will outperform the HX35 and we've witnessed this both out on the highway pulling trailers and here on the dyno testing.
@@pddofficial Cool, thanks. Can’t wait to see how the k27 stacks up against the aggressor 62
Did you pull the silencer ring
The silencer ring was in-tact on the K27. We'll have to go check the HX35 and get back to you.
So I've heard from a couple individuals that they believe their truck made more power and ran better with red dye(off road diesel) I'd love to see if its actually true
nope, it'll be the same.. they just put a cup full of dye per like 500 gallons into the same fuel
@@Rx7man I've always been told that red dye has more sulfur/better lubrication then road diesel.
@@KoltFin I doubt the EPA would allow it to have sulfur
Pre 2007 you could get high sulfur red-dyed fuel at some the fuel stations that catered to off-highway vehicles like farm tractors. That fuel was different. We have not seen different red fuel for years, just like Rx7man said, it's the same fuel out of the same tanker truck with red dye added right there and then when they pump it into the tanks at the fuel station.
I wish i had a built trans layin around i could just throw in my 99 lol
You could build one yourself, not too difficult with one of our DIY trans build kits!
I’ve been waiting for this, glad I didn’t buy the k27 to be honest
if you're willing to do some downpipe mods, an upgraded HE351 is really nice
@@Rx7man I’m thinking more about the aggressor series now or maybe compounds
@@beckbuilt3209 I don't know much about the aggressor series, so can't comment on them.. compounds are cool!
What pillar gauges are those?
They are PDD gauges available on our website: powerdrivendiesel.com/product-category/dodge-ram-diesel/1994-1998-2nd-gen-12v/dodge-ram-diesel-1994-1998-2nd-gen-12v-gauges-pods/gauges/
First from South Dakota
First from the Dakotas, but second overall. You're slacking this time!
Dixie on point...
@@pddofficial only by seconds ... lol
Pdd is the best they don’t have on product they don’t torture test
Warranty Claims are always more expensive than blown up parts from testing to the ragged edge... we're no where near perfect, but we try to test as much as possible!
@@pddofficial I am about to make a order for 0.25 delivery valves and injectors soon thanks
I'm thinking of putting a K24 on my 4bt, what do you say?
Not sure never did anything with the k24
@@pddofficial I live in Brazil and here we found the k24 easy with a 47.5mm compressor and 49.5mm turbine, I think it should be fine on the 4BT
@@pddofficial which turbo that you have already used would you recommend for the 4BT? originally mine came with an HX30, it is the original VE 145hp pump, but I put the fuelpin sending more diesel and a HE221w holset but now I was wanting a bigger turbo to extract more power but without getting a slow spool. Thanks
@@fullsizetrucksbr we would run the hx super 6
@@pddofficial the HX30 super with 46mm compressor and 52mm turbine? I didn't find it here in Brazil, but if it turns out good I think the K24 would be even better for having a 47.5mm compressor and a 49.5mm turbine, it should have a fast spool with good air flow
What all do you have done to this truck?
All the upgrades (except the turbo install and transmission upgrade from this video) are contained in the previous video titled: Perfect 400k Mile Cummins. czcams.com/video/00AQBYH8ZTY/video.html
@@pddofficial yep just saw that video. I'm just up the road from you guys I wanna drive down amd chat with you about what I can do to wake my truck up and control the egts