I'd 100% like to see more of these videos in whatever combination you can come up with using all the common polymers. Especially if you tried just printing interface layers.
What about a single (but thick) separation layer in PLA and the rest of the support in TPU? That could reduce the needed filament changes to 2 and make things usable on a single extruder system.
I tryed the other side around. Made a PETg bar with a TPU top, to make a surface to grip that gives resistance, and a high strength bar (PETg) to take the load of pressure, and the TPU the give resistance, to hold a Item on its place. And they sick quite god to another, the PETg and TPU. great video as always 👍😀
Speaking as a retired ER doctor who performed a lot of hand surgery, whenever you’re struggling with something sharp or semi-sharp (e.g., a putty knife), at a minimum wear thick leather gloves.
Can you do a test to show which common materials separate and which fuse together? Would be awesome to see what can be used as support material and what goes together when doing multi material parts that leverage the different properties of the materials :)
On my Snapmaker I swap the filament tension spring for the spring from a pen when printing TPU and it works great. I wish I could remember where I saw that hack.
Maybe organic supports would produce some interesting results, especially for PETG and ease of separation. I think it would also allow you to run the support material hotter (or cooler) as needed since the distance between the support and the TPU will be greater so less heat transfer.
Why 0.1 gap? It seems like you'd go with full-contact support (0mm gap). Based on your results though, you'd have to run some samples and compare. Your results are impressive.
I like to add, that I had good results with PLA+PETG setting it to 0 gap, Rectlinear Grid, a sheat around the support, 3 top and bottom interface layers and a concentric pattern. The PLA profile is set to soluble material. Reason for the very thick support is that I had my interface layers not bonding while printing and ruining everything late in the print. This makes the support very sturdy and we get a nice flat chunk of an interface layer that will just remove. Not sure how this would perform with TPU+PLA, but I would give it a shot.
You can use every oposide Material. Like pla non oil Based and petg oil based. Tpu and pla.... Almost everything in the same Temperatur range an different basematerial. The only reason why your petg gets of the tpu was the Temperatur different during the print. And tpu on tpu Support works fine too if you know how to set up a printer properbly.
After you print the first donut can you use it as support for the NEXT print. You print the Shaft of the next print to where it needs the support and then just set it on top of the shaft and let it print. No more wasted donuts. thx love to see the vid on that type of support and how to do it...
You could have an even easier time removing the supports with some better settings. While the multi-material printing certainly helps, that heavy block of support material is overkill/impractical. At least in Cura, when I'm not using trees, I like using 0 support walls, 15% support infill, the zig-zag support pattern and top/bottom interfaces. This gives you plenty of places to put your pliers, then you can pull and it'll mostly zip right off.
Great video. I don't own a twin head yet, it seems to have a great future making aftermarket soft touch buttons and switches for vintage auto use. White or red inner core to make the marker and black TPU, then a little vapour smoothing. Jobs a good un
Thank you for this video. The vendors of the multiple filament printers must be soo happy to see this video. It is a great marketing tool for those printers.
The bond between TPU and PLA is not very strong. I did some test using TPU as living hinges for PLA prints, and found that the adhesion was so week it only worked if I created mechanical interlocking between the two materials (using dovetail features). Of course, a weak bond is what you want for a support material, but it needs to be strong enough to allow you to grow supports from the part, not just from the build plate, if it's going to be a general solution. This is something you didn't test. Your PLA support is only from the PEI bed. What happens if you try to put down the PLA support on top of the TPU? Does it have sufficient adhesion when hot to stick? My hinge experiments required me to really slow down to get that to work. I think I ended up printing at something like 10mm/s. It would be good if you could extend your test to include this.
That is correct. I reckon this will only work for supports in the bed. Still there are a lot of use cases where this will work great. Much better than virtually not being able to use supports at all. I will definetly will try this with my Prusa XL that I will assemble this weekend.
I just tried printing TPU on top of a PLA raft. It worked out too well, the TPU part was permanently bonded to the PLA raft. Maybe the adhesion depends on the filament brands? I'll try again with other PLAs to see how it goes.
Try a more organic model with more difficult supports. Flat overhangs are easier to support than angled, which are still easier to support than curved surfaces
How about printing the support interface layer at 100%? That way the support will have a smooth top surface which could release easier. If you could perform ironing on the interface layer it could be even better :)
I think this would be an area that the Prusa XL with multiple heads would shine. I am waiting for my 5 head XL order to be ready, Would like to see one doing this test
Now seeing this for the 3rd time or so. You just pulled the parts appart and used a spatula. But one material is a flex one and while warching it today, I wondered if using compressed air could be used as one of the tools to separate the parts.
Do me a favor use SUNLU PETG with any TPU. SUNLU PETG we use BLACK and we never had an separation issue with. And Gap it with 0.2mm. Part cooling had to be good for PETG so often your standard printers aren't build for it. So keep that in mind.
Hips also works well, at least for supports between a TPU part and the print bed. The Hips is quite brittle and easily snaps apart which is handy if its an internal support. It won't stick at all to the TPU so is less than useful for supports printed onto TPU e.g. for openings/overhangs higher up in the TPU print job. How well does PLA work for printing supports on top of TPU?
Great video, thanks for the work. Going one step further on your test. For the PLA support did you think about/can you run the support up to "Almost Touching" the part being supported and then change from a solid support to "support like" print out? Because of home electrical issues I've been out of printing for over a year and just now getting into it. I've printed PLA and PETG using it's own support structure which is stringy and brittle that can be broken off. So the question is instead of connecting with a solid support for the TPU over hang, but you print solid up to a point and switch to support mode between the solid PLA support and the TPU? Wouldn't it separate more easily if you didn't go from solid to solid? Sorry if I'm not explaining this correctly or with the correct verbiage.
We’re there any other upgrades included in the upgrade kit and have you run into major hotend clogging problems. I tried the J1 for my lab and had to return it because it was clogging a lot. I would have stuck it out and tinkered but I was about to leave the lab and didn’t want to leave a project for the next user. From what I read the hotend design is susceptible to heat creep which was causing problems. A couple super users suggested some modifications to the hotend using stock parts but I haven’t seen anything from snap maker themselves addressing the issue.
I do print TPU 95A with TPU support (BiquBX, Cura 5.4, 253º), no other changes that I recall and it dataches quite easily with great finish. Maybe you should try Cura just for the kicks?
@@chrisvalin9299 Cura allows to pick any Z gap - but transforms it to full layer heights (0.2 layer -> 0.0, 0.2, 0.4 and so on), while PrusaSlicer allows to input (type) any number in mm and that will be used (0.15 -> 0.15, 0.22 -> 0.22, no matter what the layer height is)
Have you tried Polymaker's TPU95-HF? I don't know why anyone would print in normal TPU when Polymaker and Overture make high flow TPU which prints nearly as easy as PLA in my experience. If my prints don;t need to be rigid and can have a bit of flex, my go-to is a HF TPU. I feel like people don't know about it and it's a monster leap forward in flexible printing.
As Bambu Labs said, TPU jams in my AMS. TPU therefore needs to be a manual feed. So automated TPU support interface layers won’t work. I suppose if there are only 1 or two interface layers you could do it manually, but if you have a sloping overhang it would be impractical.
@@spongecounter I have used TPU to support TPU plenty of times with my BL printer. It works very well in general. That's what I was saying. The creator of the video said that you can't use TPU to support TPU and that isn't true with some printers including my BL printer.
@@DoRC thanks for the clarification. Makes sense. I’ve used TPU to support TPU many times too. I do find it ugly compared to other materials. An exacto blade works for cutting the supports off. Do wish I could use TPU in the AMS though. The PLA with PETG support interfaces look beautiful so I wish I could do it with TPU.
Has anyone tried this using ABS as the support material instead of PLA? If so, does it seem to work the same as TPU + PLA, or does the TPU fuse to the ABS more rigidly?
when you say "without further ado, let's get right into today's video", it is surprising that you don't get right into the video and there is a bunch further ado with an intro and sponsor plug
My problem is that these videos simply only address these VERY basic primitive shapes and ignore real world complex shapes which require far more simple and easy removal as to not break the parts you are printing.
@@ModBotArmy Selling my X1C/AMS combo to try something else. Thinking of building a Voron, but the flsun v400 and the snap maker j1 has caused me to pause and research before pulling the trigger. How has the J1 and the V400 performed for you so far? Any big issues or pitfalls with either system?
How about - _and I cannot stress this enough_ - instead of printing all of the Supports with another Material _constantly_ swapping between Nozzles / Filament with every 2nd Layer you instead choose *_Z-Offset Type_*_ None ( Soluble )_ thus only having the 1-2 Uppermost Interfacing Layers be printed in a different Material saving you a LOT of time? i.imgur.com/OBr2MoT.png 😏
I'd 100% like to see more of these videos in whatever combination you can come up with using all the common polymers. Especially if you tried just printing interface layers.
What about a single (but thick) separation layer in PLA and the rest of the support in TPU? That could reduce the needed filament changes to 2 and make things usable on a single extruder system.
I tryed the other side around.
Made a PETg bar with a TPU top, to make a surface to grip that gives resistance, and a high strength bar (PETg) to take the load of pressure, and the TPU the give resistance, to hold a Item on its place. And they sick quite god to another, the PETg and TPU.
great video as always 👍😀
Speaking as a retired ER doctor who performed a lot of hand surgery, whenever you’re struggling with something sharp or semi-sharp (e.g., a putty knife), at a minimum wear thick leather gloves.
Can you do a test to show which common materials separate and which fuse together? Would be awesome to see what can be used as support material and what goes together when doing multi material parts that leverage the different properties of the materials :)
On my Snapmaker I swap the filament tension spring for the spring from a pen when printing TPU and it works great. I wish I could remember where I saw that hack.
I have the same problem, Could you please find how to do it properly?
Maybe organic supports would produce some interesting results, especially for PETG and ease of separation. I think it would also allow you to run the support material hotter (or cooler) as needed since the distance between the support and the TPU will be greater so less heat transfer.
Organic supports would probably make this more challenging but if there's a way to do it reliably then it would be great to learn.
Why 0.1 gap? It seems like you'd go with full-contact support (0mm gap). Based on your results though, you'd have to run some samples and compare. Your results are impressive.
I like to add, that I had good results with PLA+PETG setting it to 0 gap, Rectlinear Grid, a sheat around the support, 3 top and bottom interface layers and a concentric pattern. The PLA profile is set to soluble material. Reason for the very thick support is that I had my interface layers not bonding while printing and ruining everything late in the print. This makes the support very sturdy and we get a nice flat chunk of an interface layer that will just remove.
Not sure how this would perform with TPU+PLA, but I would give it a shot.
You can use every oposide Material.
Like pla non oil Based and petg oil based.
Tpu and pla....
Almost everything in the same Temperatur range an different basematerial.
The only reason why your petg gets of the tpu was the Temperatur different during the print.
And tpu on tpu Support works fine too if you know how to set up a printer properbly.
Just as I started some TPU projects and asked myself what might be "best" as support material. Great timing!
You say “let’s get right into the video”, then you play an intro followed by an advertisement. Just sayin.
😂😂😂😂😂
🤣
Lmao factssss
😂😂
After you print the first donut can you use it as support for the NEXT print. You print the Shaft of the next print to where it needs the support and then just set it on top of the shaft and let it print. No more wasted donuts. thx love to see the vid on that type of support and how to do it...
I have done that same procedure and gotten acceptable results from a single extruder. The supports have to end at the same layer though.
My Bambu A1 has no problem with tpu supports and tpu parts. They pull apart like strong Velcro and the finish looks great.
You could have an even easier time removing the supports with some better settings. While the multi-material printing certainly helps, that heavy block of support material is overkill/impractical.
At least in Cura, when I'm not using trees, I like using 0 support walls, 15% support infill, the zig-zag support pattern and top/bottom interfaces. This gives you plenty of places to put your pliers, then you can pull and it'll mostly zip right off.
Hey nice to see you here man! Are you still messing with Linuxcnc at all these days? Your videos on that back in the day were super helpful!
Great video.
I don't own a twin head yet, it seems to have a great future making aftermarket soft touch buttons and switches for vintage auto use.
White or red inner core to make the marker and black TPU, then a little vapour smoothing.
Jobs a good un
Thank you for this video. The vendors of the multiple filament printers must be soo happy to see this video. It is a great marketing tool for those printers.
Man i love supporting my homies
The bond between TPU and PLA is not very strong. I did some test using TPU as living hinges for PLA prints, and found that the adhesion was so week it only worked if I created mechanical interlocking between the two materials (using dovetail features). Of course, a weak bond is what you want for a support material, but it needs to be strong enough to allow you to grow supports from the part, not just from the build plate, if it's going to be a general solution.
This is something you didn't test. Your PLA support is only from the PEI bed. What happens if you try to put down the PLA support on top of the TPU? Does it have sufficient adhesion when hot to stick? My hinge experiments required me to really slow down to get that to work. I think I ended up printing at something like 10mm/s. It would be good if you could extend your test to include this.
That is correct. I reckon this will only work for supports in the bed. Still there are a lot of use cases where this will work great. Much better than virtually not being able to use supports at all.
I will definetly will try this with my Prusa XL that I will assemble this weekend.
I just tried printing TPU on top of a PLA raft. It worked out too well, the TPU part was permanently bonded to the PLA raft. Maybe the adhesion depends on the filament brands? I'll try again with other PLAs to see how it goes.
I am printing PLA with TPU supports right now. I find it alot easier then PLA on PLA
Some tests on different support materials for asa would be awesome.
Try a more organic model with more difficult supports. Flat overhangs are easier to support than angled, which are still easier to support than curved surfaces
I wonder how the bow (and cabin doors and windows) of the Benchy would look like with supports 😉
Try something like 0.08mm Top interface spacing (or even 0mm if using PLA instead of PETG). You can get an even cleaner overhang :)
I was looking for that amazing companion tpu+ petg to make perfect stamp!!
Wow, I was not expecting that. I guess the PLA would fuse right to the TPU much like PETG did. Nice vid, keep up great work !
Definitely more! Keep giving me more reasons to build a Tridex!
How about printing the support interface layer at 100%? That way the support will have a smooth top surface which could release easier. If you could perform ironing on the interface layer it could be even better :)
Interesting. I’m brand new to prusa slicer (well- Bambu) is there an ironing setting for support interface only?
This is exactly the video I needed right now
I think this would be an area that the Prusa XL with multiple heads would shine. I am waiting for my 5 head XL order to be ready, Would like to see one doing this test
I'd be interested in seeing TPU and ASA printed with dissolvable supports
I would like to see this done on an organic part that really needs a lot of supports.
Thank you, you answered exactly my questions! Awesome!
Interestingly PolyMaker's breakaway support material seems to be a mix of PLA with a bit of TPU in it
Now seeing this for the 3rd time or so.
You just pulled the parts appart and used a spatula.
But one material is a flex one and while warching it today, I wondered if using compressed air could be used as one of the tools to separate the parts.
2:00 auxiliary fan lmao
Do me a favor use SUNLU PETG with any TPU. SUNLU PETG we use BLACK and we never had an separation issue with. And Gap it with 0.2mm. Part cooling had to be good for PETG so often your standard printers aren't build for it. So keep that in mind.
You should try nylon with tpu, same temp and nylon is slippery when cool.
Hips also works well, at least for supports between a TPU part and the print bed. The Hips is quite brittle and easily snaps apart which is handy if its an internal support. It won't stick at all to the TPU so is less than useful for supports printed onto TPU e.g. for openings/overhangs higher up in the TPU print job. How well does PLA work for printing supports on top of TPU?
i will like to see a video of the new setting in cura that joint tpu with petg and pla.
My bambulab P1P prints chinese tpus like a boss no issues with supports :)
Great video, thanks for the work. Going one step further on your test. For the PLA support did you think about/can you run the support up to "Almost Touching" the part being supported and then change from a solid support to "support like" print out?
Because of home electrical issues I've been out of printing for over a year and just now getting into it. I've printed PLA and PETG using it's own support structure which is stringy and brittle that can be broken off.
So the question is instead of connecting with a solid support for the TPU over hang, but you print solid up to a point and switch to support mode between the solid PLA support and the TPU?
Wouldn't it separate more easily if you didn't go from solid to solid? Sorry if I'm not explaining this correctly or with the correct verbiage.
Please try it with banbulab cf filament as main
If only pla could be used in the bambu labs ams
But you should try bvoh material
We’re there any other upgrades included in the upgrade kit and have you run into major hotend clogging problems. I tried the J1 for my lab and had to return it because it was clogging a lot. I would have stuck it out and tinkered but I was about to leave the lab and didn’t want to leave a project for the next user. From what I read the hotend design is susceptible to heat creep which was causing problems. A couple super users suggested some modifications to the hotend using stock parts but I haven’t seen anything from snap maker themselves addressing the issue.
Awesome test. Did you attempt a 0.2 top gap?
Great information, Thank you!
can the top of the pla supports be a multi layer smooth top and then print the tpu on a solid surface?
ABS next?
How about looking into ABS or ASA and what materials could support them? It would be great to be able to use a cheap PLA to support ABS prints.
I print a lot of ASA and I've been using a nylon (specifically PA6-CF) support interface layer with good results.
@@anon-means-anon I use HIPS for ASA an an interface layer, works great!
What about testing HIPS?
what about HIPS with ABS?
I have printed using tpu supports no problem
I do print TPU 95A with TPU support (BiquBX, Cura 5.4, 253º), no other changes that I recall and it dataches quite easily with great finish. Maybe you should try Cura just for the kicks?
@@chrisvalin9299 Cura allows to pick any Z gap - but transforms it to full layer heights (0.2 layer -> 0.0, 0.2, 0.4 and so on), while PrusaSlicer allows to input (type) any number in mm and that will be used (0.15 -> 0.15, 0.22 -> 0.22, no matter what the layer height is)
Great video!
Have you tried Polymaker's TPU95-HF? I don't know why anyone would print in normal TPU when Polymaker and Overture make high flow TPU which prints nearly as easy as PLA in my experience. If my prints don;t need to be rigid and can have a bit of flex, my go-to is a HF TPU. I feel like people don't know about it and it's a monster leap forward in flexible printing.
It's great. But the reason you'd be using normal 95A or softer TPU's are endless when you want a softer printed part....
Hi.
What about TPU with ABS supports?
would a soluable support material be any good ?
I guess it depends on what printer you're using but the BL printers print TPU support flawlessly.
BL Printers? Is it brand?
@@multilaton4835 bambu lab
As Bambu Labs said, TPU jams in my AMS. TPU therefore needs to be a manual feed. So automated TPU support interface layers won’t work. I suppose if there are only 1 or two interface layers you could do it manually, but if you have a sloping overhang it would be impractical.
@@spongecounter I have used TPU to support TPU plenty of times with my BL printer. It works very well in general. That's what I was saying. The creator of the video said that you can't use TPU to support TPU and that isn't true with some printers including my BL printer.
@@DoRC thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
I’ve used TPU to support TPU many times too. I do find it ugly compared to other materials. An exacto blade works for cutting the supports off. Do wish I could use TPU in the AMS though. The PLA with PETG support interfaces look beautiful so I wish I could do it with TPU.
Is there a method out there to execute multiple filaments using only one extruder? Without the use of the multi filament swappers?
Can you do this for ABS and or Nylon?
what it was the best retraction setting for J1? my J1S it arrive in 3 days
Has anyone tried this using ABS as the support material instead of PLA? If so, does it seem to work the same as TPU + PLA, or does the TPU fuse to the ABS more rigidly?
Nice video!
TL;DR: use PLA for supports. PETG bonds way too much to TPU.
Hmm I am curious about pva
From what printer is the nozzle hight adjustment mechanism at minute 2:14?
why not use pva or hips
when you say "without further ado, let's get right into today's video", it is surprising that you don't get right into the video and there is a bunch further ado with an intro and sponsor plug
Why not just use PVA?
Is this possible on the X1 or are the temperatures too different?
Nylon
id love to have an IDEX printer, need a company to send me one for my channel lol
👍
My problem is that these videos simply only address these VERY basic primitive shapes and ignore real world complex shapes which require far more simple and easy removal as to not break the parts you are printing.
I’d like to see if you could make me something using tpu I’d pay you $50 and you could make a video of it
definitely not turn key.. as is most of 3d printing... not user friendly.
Can we just call it PET-G instead of pee eee tee gee?
🤷♂️
@@ModBotArmy Selling my X1C/AMS combo to try something else. Thinking of building a Voron, but the flsun v400 and the snap maker j1 has caused me to pause and research before pulling the trigger. How has the J1 and the V400 performed for you so far? Any big issues or pitfalls with either system?
How about - _and I cannot stress this enough_ - instead of printing all of the Supports with another Material _constantly_ swapping between Nozzles / Filament with every 2nd Layer you instead choose *_Z-Offset Type_*_ None ( Soluble )_ thus only having the 1-2 Uppermost Interfacing Layers be printed in a different Material saving you a LOT of time? i.imgur.com/OBr2MoT.png 😏