The movement phase was pretty wild in classic 40k
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2023
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Good content but 4:17 "If you can't reach your target during a charge your model doesn't move" unless I've missed something the book really doesn't imply the move is cancelled just no further actions can be taken after. (I would argue Psychic powers could still be used as they really don't fall under normal actions.)
I think you might be right, it’s certainly played that way in WD167
The rule literally says you don't move. This rule also was carried over into 3rd edition. If you failed the charge roll, you didn't mocve.
To continue, this was a way to not force your units from charging out of advantageous cover and into getting shot to pieces.
@@TheCityofTownsville Is that in an errata? Under "The Movement Phase" chapter of the rulebook it doesn't say that, it simply says "If a charging model fails to make contact with an enemy, it may do nothing for the remainder of the turn." That to me sounds like its referring to a model within the squad that charged, not the squad itself. Reading the original Necromunda rulebook (as it is an offshoot of 2E rules) it explicitly says that if you've failed a charge the model is moved as close to the target as possible.
@@TheCityofTownsville 3RD ED was a different beast as you were allowed to measure the charge distance first and HAD to be within 6 inches.
You couldn't just undo the charge in 2ND ED. Part of the fun for many of the mechanics (like shooting) was gambling the distance and having a chuckle when you were wrong.
After watching this video, I am strengthened in my conviction that 40k became popular entirely due to the models and lore.
You are closer to the truth than you know. 🖖
yeah, hopefully with 10th edition the game becomes more legible
@@dolphinerofachero3159- don't see why it would - it hasn't worked for 9 other editions 😂😂
GW have always been shit at rules. Mordhiem is the only exception.
Nope, this edition was so cool and detailed and fun. really. It didn't take long to talk out how to play with the other guy.
I think my 13 year old brain amalgamated all these rules into something workable in 1996. If something prevented carnage, or slowed the game down, it was usually ignored!
As god intended!
Ah, the old glory days of 40k, when you just sort of muddled through and had fun, without needing the contents of a small library.
I was always surprised how few arguments resulted from this way of doing it.
Ah the most important rule of them all: "Have fun!"
I think the game designers are genuinely pissed people don’t do that anymore.
@@nelsoj11 I don't think they are unfortunately. I was recently reading a 7th edition rule book and man something died at gw between 7th and 8th. They went from have fun, talk to whoever your playing with, to, these are the rules. If you don't follow them you get banished, if you proxy, banished, if you have fun, banished. This is a serious competitive war game and we want no wackyness. It's like the fun just died...
I still maintain that all battle reports should be shown using these graphics, by far the best looking ever made!
Totally agree.
It wasn't actually *that* bad. The rule book actually had a section on resolving unclear rules for a start.
Out of control vehicles very rarely happened. The running thing was, I think, mostly ignored.
The main problem was with wargear, and things like the catastrosphically broken Virus Outbreak. White Dwarf genuinely advised you to shred that card a while after it came out. Oh and if this scared you, don't ever look at the armor penetration and vehicle damage tables.
What you didn't have were a soup of aura's, stratagems, and masses of army specific rules. Learn the main rules and you learnt the game. And blast/flamer templates were fun and as far as I can see no harder to use.
One last point for my old man rant - it was a RANGED game back then. You started 24'' apart, and most units could run at 8'', with things like Howling Banshees going 10''. Melee would occur, but there was no nonsense of turn 1 charges.
The 2nd Ed movement phase rules were covered in 4 pages. 2 of those pages were solely dedicated to the rules for Hiding, something that I nor anyone I ever knew ever actually used because they didn't make any sense. I love this game.
It took until Necromunda's release for anyone in the 41st Millenium to hide
The main use of the hiding rule is to protect troops deployed in cover. You can deploy models/squads in hiding at the start of the game, so if you don't have the first turn they can't be targetted. Really useful way of not being shot off the board before you've had a turn.
I used hide rules extensively. Due to their abysmal strategy rating, Tyranids typically had the 2nd turn. So I hid everything I could to force my opponent into overwatch and the -1 modifier for attacking targets that emerge from cover. :D
@@tomreynolds6634 It was also great for depriving my opponent of victory points; so long as my 5-man Guardian squads didn't break after they got shot to pieces...then the last couple would hide, so my opponent had to hunt them to the last man for one victory point.
ha yeah i don't think i ever hisd a model in my life.
You really start to appreciate the current design principle of "simplified, not simple"
It took over 20 years to get to 8 pages of rules
"I did not have time to wrtite a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead"
I actually like the madness.
Not at all, I loved the complex granularity of the 2nd ed system, I loved that you could fire a missile, flub it, and it explode at your guys feet
This is how it was in Fantasy and that's how we liked it! But for real Fantasy is a rank and flank game, a lot of the weirdness seems to come from GW trying to just use rank and flank rules for a skirmish game
To be honest, they still do this. 40k is in essence a game about skirmishes, not battles. GW has never understood this, to the extent that they have made an entire other game called Kill Team in order to do exactly what 40k does but with vague RPG elements and only infantry. But it's funny so I enjoy it... begrudgingly.
At the end of 2nd edition, my group's binder of house rules were thicker than the rule book itself. It was the most glorious edition. The name for the house rules was "Xth edition", with the number going up every time we changed it. The final name was 137th edition. (When Codex: Shittyfight came out during 3rd edition we also went back to 2nd edition for a while as we lost all hope for 3rd)
Why didn’t you like Cityfight? I’ve heard a lot of people talk about that book positively but it’s usually for the fluff, they mostly don’t talk about the rules.
City fight was peak 3rd edition. At my house all games of 3rd used Cityfight rules.
@@jacobdale2314 You could literally stand on top of the eiffel tower with a pistol in your hand and shoot someone at the base of the tower, because it was less than 12" measured straight ahead because it only cared about horizontal range. In fact, it was less than 3". That's repulsive rules writing.
this made me laugh my ass off. wish i had experienced this edition sometimes
5:20 this applies to running troops not moving troops. If those Ork boys started 10" away they could walk 4" closer and not have to stop. If the capitan moves 1" back on his turn he would be 7" away. If he uses his full moment then with him and the boys being the same speed he could kite them till he runs out of board. It doesn't 100% brake the game but gives melee armies an additional slog if the opposition is not tied to a forward point.
I've been slowly amassing an oldhammer Eldar army for second edition. This is a huge help to getting back into the second edition frame of mind.
Bro, all guardians was ridiculous for amount of shots they output.
Shuriken catapults for the win!
12” range in 3rd and later soured me
Man, this takes me back. Did you recreate those battle report graphics yourself or did you get them from somewhere? As soon as I saw them it was like I was 13 again reading the latest white dwarf. Love it and looking forward to more.
A complete “how to play 2e” playlist is everything I need.
I feel so old. I remember reading rogue trader and then white dwarf and the battle reports. Good days. I miss these icons and graffics for the battle reports. Good memories.
The nostalgia of the unit symbols. Great job!
Hell yeah
I grew up reading my Dad's 2nd edition Codexes, and I always adored the art style of classic Games Workshop, so I love seeing somebody make videos on this era!
A video on the art is on its way
Ah pleasant nostalgia, thank you. Looking forward to this format growing, subbed for the fun!
Really interesting seeing how different the game was. I joined a little later and picked up 40k in 4th edition and my nostalgic heart knows no other love than 5th. Play a game every now and with some like minded pals.
Well, I must say I'm very glad to have found your channel. Love the dogs. Love the vibe. Love classic 40k.
I take 2nd edition as a gentlemen's game or to put it into perspective like a classic car rally. Are you going to flat out your car and break it? Nope. You are going tl repect the rules, yes. But it is more about the laughs and bringing your 25+ year old models into the table once more and create a story of great characters in pecfect levelled green fields and red spiked cactuses. You brought nice points to consider, although I would consider that sometimes the least beardy of the results is the right rule. Great video. Great animation. Great memories. That is what is all about
For sure dude. Narrative play was always my favourite. I’ll take a bastion, a dread and a unit of Long Fangs, you bring your entire army and see how long I can defend for. Or bring all your Orks, I’ll bring all my Khorne and we’ll see who is wiped out first. Stuff like that was the best way to play.
Definitely this. It still has the 1st edition/Rogue Trader legacy, which was more like D&D. The rules were there to help you and your opponent fight a battle with your minis, but the story was a big part of the rules and you had to be sporting. And the number of rules could be insane. Ork Madboys rolling on a table each turn to see how they fight. Rolling 2d6 individually for each terminator. Displacer fields meaning your leader would bounce around the table after each successful save. And then vortex grenades - the great leveller - drifting about eliminating anything they touched.
@@doctorludo7216 it always surprised me to hear people would fuss over the angle of scatter dice. Like, if the vortex grenade goes near my character I want it to wipe them out, I want crazy fun stuff to happen. Blowing a vehicle track off and being happy for a moment, only for it to smash into one of your units and kill most of them was always awesome.
@@RobJT Definitely. It wasn't chess - it was a narrative you and your friend built. Almost always ending with the two army commanders going toe to toe.
Ork Battlewagon was another example - it could carry as many models as you could balance on it. If they fell off, they took damage.
The best parts were the optional rules by the designers in the Citadel Journal… GW also permitted 3rd companies to produce rule sheets aka Datafaxes
There were so many variations to add flavour
Fantastic video! We've just started playing 2nd edition again and these are really helpful. Only on our second game and have made loads of mistakes! It is my favourite of all the warhammer! God bless 2nd!!
This has made my day. Thank you
Fantastic Video!! Bring me lovely memory of games with friends a loooooong time ago! Keep up the good work!
it took 2 days to play a single game of 40K in the early 90's - I remember there was an entire movement phase for both players in combat - where you had to move back 2 inches if you lost combat and the attacker had to follow up
I played Flames of War the other day and the combat mechanic reminded me of 2nd. ed. 40k. You fight the assault and, if the attacker loses, the defender fights and assault but if they then lose, the attacker gets to assault again and so on so forth.
Oh come on. Games took like 2-3 hours. Didn't play much did you?
@@IndianaSmallmouth That was before the release of the 2nd edition. Around 1991. Unless you played with 10 models a side.
@@broncofun5636 surely that was a skirmish game, I've had a copy for years but never played. A 1500 - 2000 points game would've taken a bag of dice the size of an overfed gretchin to play, not to mention the paperwork and card management
We played several 10,000 point per player games
The trick in getting it done in one day is to divide your army up and bring them in over 5 or 6 turns that way you never have more than 3k points on the table at a time
You've only done 3 videos but I already love it! Love the classic unit icons from Old White Dwarf mags.
I'd love to see a video on the utter insanity of 2nd ed's close combat rules.
They were the best yet. necromunda is based off of this. great.
@@IndianaSmallmouth Gorkamorka too. I feel like more people need to play Gorkamorka, that game is a blast.
"Set a fire and escape in the confusion." Excellent advice.
Incredibly funny!
Plz make some more!
just found this chanel and its definitely now one of my favorites. I played a lot of second edition as a teen and remember being a bit suspicious of the White Dwarf battle reports.
I'm getting a "Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" vibe from your vids, awesome work 👏
I love these! Keep them up - hilarious
This is great. Thanks.
Those animation That's so good, thanks for your video. I started at 3nd édition I have nostalgia seen those icon
I really hope you continue with these oldhammer videos.
You’ve got a treat coming on Monday
I loved 2nd! We actually played 2nd til 8th edition. Really looking forward to 10th: )
Im pretty sure that if a model cant make a charge because the target is too far away, it still has to move its entire charge towards it and then stop out in the open.
I love this edition, would never go back to newer ones.
Also, you dont have to declare who you are charging. You can decide that during the charge. At least iirc, dont feel like checking the rulebook right now.
Yes, I think I’ll have to wrap this series up with an FAQ for all the bits I get wrong
My long time opponent was a 'Nid player. My favourite cheese tactics was to let him declare a charge with his gaunts, then if they couldn't compete the charge ending up half an inch from my models, immediately declare my own counter charge on my own turn. With the +1 A for charging it is hilarious how often a Guardian squad lead by a Warlock can fuck up even Genestealers, worse case scenario you lose squad of Guards but take the moment out of the 'Nids advance.
@@DarthHugsALot Wrong edition dude. you fight one model to one and get an extra die for exta attackers. Add weapons skill to the totals and the difference is the number of hit you get on that model. fumbles by your opponent are added to your score and additional 6's you roll are added to your score. Allowed the 10th guard to beat a bloodthirster.
For some reason you do declare who you are charging but then. You must move towards and engage the closest unengaged model. So in fact you have no choice who you charge and declaring a target is pointless (further clarified in an faq at the time). Deciding what model to move first can help you get the right personincombat with what you want them to be though. Good job engaged models are not required to stay in coherency as a unit could split if close to two targets.
@@richtheunstable3359 Yes, though character models can freely choose who they are charging
The editing style is what makes these videos. They are as relaxing as they are entertaining. Great stuff!
I call it, “Only just learnt After Effects”
@@OldenDemon Then you have a talent for it. This was a very enjoyable video.
@@traumateaminternational4732 Why, thank you
Good to see another video!
Thank you once again. Heading towards that 400 hours nicely. 12 year old me is dancing about with excitement. I wish I could have the cash of now with the time from then.
What happens at 400 hours?
Thank you YT algorithm for this blast of nostalgia. Great video 😊
Hail the algorithm
Started on 2nd around 1996 for about a year. Very slow going and plenty of fun since it was the first I'd been involved in wargaming. 3rd edition came along and it was great. Still happy memories. 4th and 5th dumbed it down too much. Didn't play 6th, barely played 7th, wrote our own rules for 8th. Hopefully 10th will be streamlined.
Love it! Need mooooooore content
Great vid!
Oh my how I miss the old style terrain and miniature pictures! So silly, vibrant and just looks so much fun!
As someone that started with 3rd ed, I do find it interesting hearing about 2nd ed.
There was a reason 3rd ed came out! One thing GW learned from with 3rd. ed. but then forgot to pass onto their new team of designers in the 2010s was that you lost control of the game if rules were spread over too many rulebooks, supplements and errata.
great video! thanks
Fav new channel
I both love and hate the complexity of old warhammer 40k
The ying and the yang make for a fascinating experience
Please keep making these. I had no interest whatsoever in this edition, but I just discovered your videos and I am loving them more than anything else 40k I've ever seen
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the donation. I’m glad you like the content I’m producing.
Seeing those old models and damage templates just unlocked a core memory. Good times.
I didn't play 2nd edition though, I only got in via 3rd edition. But I had heard of vortex grenades and all the wild stuff in the 2nd edition rules and felt a little bit cheated.
Now I understand a little bit more about why they were left out.
let this channel blow!
Phenomenal!
Where was this video 30 years ago?? Great explenations and really funny. Love your videos man!
Yes it was broken but we had loads of fun with it and when your shock attack gun teleported a whole unit of snotlings inside the apposing players terminators and they ripped there way out alien style it made up for the lack of "balance."
Declaring charges first makes so much sense to me. Vehicles hitting infantry always was strange.
I still got my 2nd and 3rd edition books. I enjoyed the gear and lore in them.
They are works of art
I wish this was an app. I would pick it up in a heartbeat
I started in 2nd Ed and it was amazing, I had my 25 man Space wolf army, mostly wolf Guard and Terminators,. 1994
quality oldhammer content
Second edition, best edition.
I love this explainer style. I know this channel is called Olden Demon, but I'd love you to do explainers like this for 10th edition once it's released. It would be so much better for me than just watching battle reports.
I am tempted
you left out my personal fav THE POP UP ATTACK which OP as hell in Eldar armys with lots flying tanks. Vypers with Bright Lances could just pop up from cover shoot and land, murdering any enemy tanks
Do not remember even half of this stuff… but oh what a glorious look back at this edition!
Your brain blocks out the trauma
@@OldenDemonoh indeed, that must be it! I have to wonder what I was actually _playing_ back in 93/94. I can't believe we used all these subtleties...
@@OldenDemon Guaranteed! Mostly it’s fond memories of late night games in the dingy back room of a tiny game store, less the intricacies of the edition itself.
Instant sub
No wonder I couldn't understand the rules when I was a kid! I still have my rulebook though, maybe I should give it another go. I love going through the old eavy metal artwork.
Nice work
I love it. The map use is genius. I have been playing since 2nd edition but only played 2nd edition briefly. Have you planned to do a refight of Glazers Creek from 2nd ed?
It’s on the list
1st and 2nd ed rules make more sense when you realize OG 40k was more like Necromunda, i.e a skirmish game with roleplaying mechanics disguised as a wargame with their own GM facilitating the game. It wasn't mean't to be competetive at all. A lot of the rules were made with the idea that players would fill in the blanks with their or a GM's own in-house rules or scenerios.
The scale was far smaller, you had far less models, 30 could be a 2k point army.
Great video which honestly just sounds like a high chuch game with errors not bad.
We had a fix for this, we did compulsory moves before declaring charges to reduce the chaos.
This is kinda fun to get the history of the rules
I played this when I was 11. It explains a lot of my psychological issues.
So glad I waited until the release of 3rd to get into 40K
Mam, we really were hardcore in those days. I still remember having to book the dining room table for a whole weekend because I wanted to play a full 3000 point battle with my brother and that was no way getting done in a single day...
This was hilarious, can't believe I haven't yet played 2nd edition.
“There are many points of contention that will occur here” oh you got that right, there are some people I have not spoken to since 1995 because of these rules.
Brilliant
U r the best,make more vids of 2nd; its best edition,hated playing but definitely make more videos on 2nd. Most my shtt is from this era&rouge trader...
The dachshunds made me sub.
Great topic for a channel. Subscribed! I still play 2nd 40K with the help of the Battle Bible. It contains the rules, weapon profiles, wargear cards and all army lists. Essentially everything you need in ONE BOOK! Terrific isn´t it? F*** U 10th 40K! LOL!
Battle Bible is freely available online and once printed out and and bookbound the amount of fun never stops for you. However I recommend adding alternating activation to the game as IGYG has been an outdated game engine for decades.
Another topic for a video: How to properly paint Blood Angels in Blood Angels Orange as it is different from simply red.
I really miss immersive stuff like eyeballing charges.
Play Necromunda. It still forbids premeasuring to this day. Also still uses templates and scatter dice.
Damn this game looks fire. Probably a nightmare to play, but fire still
And here I was, thinking 9th edition is complicated
This was fantastically entertaining, thank you!
Have your subscribers doubled over this last week!?
It looks that way, I was only expecting 100 views for the first video
Ok. 1000 subscribers in 24 hours. Congrats. This is gonna be a wild ride!
All that flavor lost... making the standard armies bigger was the real downfall.
Oh the memories
Great blackadder ref.
And here I thought when they added overwatch to the charge phase it was a new thing. Little did I know they were simply rehashing an old rule idea.
I like that you represent your viewers with adorable dachshunds reading books
Viewers? Those are photos from my gaming group
Yeah - have to admit that we used a much more basic and home brew set of rules compared to rule book - stopped a lot of fights though
My god the memories. I was 14 when i played with these rules, amd 40k to us was a delicate balance between cheating, screaming and negotiating what the rulebook actually said. I still don't know why we loved it so much
My gang did a 24-hour game for Red Nose day. We got the badges and everything, but I just fell asleep. It was about then that I realized literally everything was bullshit.
2nd was the box with space marines and orks with the ork dreadnought card and the black and white codex?
Absolutely outstanding 😅
My only question that I don't think was answered.. was charge range just X2 movement? Or did you roll for it?
Yeap, 2x your movement value
@@OldenDemon Unless you had a Mark of Khorne, then it was x3.
I need a hug.
Also, also, what AI do you use for generating the dog images?
The only edition I played. Necromunda had the same rules more or less.
Hahaha I forgot about chaos characters turning into spawn. Great times
Loved 2nd and 3rd edition, it’s where I cut my teeth, I fell off after 5th, I want to get back into the hobby, but I have very limited space and time, so more of an observer, but what a hobby.