Your point of view is quite mature. As a medical studant myself, the statement of "poreper diet and healthy lifestyle is all you need" is indeed true for the majority of the humans beens out there. Supplements, as the name itself means are there to "add" to a proper diet. Does everybody needs addition of nutrients? No, even without a good diet. However the question I put is "where does rock climbing population lies in this analysis"? Are the necessitys of this population in particular the same as the population in general? I guess not.. All of your arguments in the video are well put, but in my view, some scratched only the surface. And here I would like to "advocate" in favor of protein supplements and creatine. 1. Protein: anyone can get all the protein/aminoacids needed in the day-to-day with diet, been it vegan or with animal food consumption. However, we can't forget 2 points in favor of protein supplements: it can be a easy/cheap/fast way to get a good protein intake, helping alot of people to balance a timeless rotine with the desire to improve physicaly; also, there is alot of research (realy ALOT) about the peak of protein in plasma with some sorts of supplements (been isolated Whey Protein the faster to be absorved and the one that does the greater peak) and the correlation with this peak with muscle synthesis. Most of us can't get the right amount of stymulus in training to make this peak as usefull as professional athletes, but it's a bonus point for this supplement. (about vegetal protein supplement, it's well stated that it's slowly absorbed but, if you ingest it in higher amounts than whey protein, it get to a high peak of plasma amino acids to about the same as whey, just not in the same speed) 2. Creatine: the argument of weight addition due to water retain is the main negative side of this supplement _FOR CLIMBERS_. However you underrated a major point about the fact that it's almost impossible to get the same amount of creatine from diet than from spplementation. To make the statement with numbers, 1kg of tuna or red meat has roughly 1,5g of Creatine. It's alot of food to a daily intake and you would get only a small percentage of what is recommended by the supplementation that is 0,06g/kg of bodyweight up to 0,15g/kg (to a 70kg person it's about 4,2g up to 10,5g of creatine!). And what about all the people that don't consume animal food? Creatine supplementation is a must. It's the one best supplement that you can take because proper diet is just not capable of providing the same amount of this particular nutrient. And someone in the comments made another point that it's really cheap to supplement. Abou the weight addition, I believe it's not as good supplement for sport climbing as it's more of a "Resistance sport" than it's good for bouldering in my opinion, as the phospate-creatine matebolism is activated in short bursts of energy, the exactly thing you need in bouldering. The ratio between weight addition/power output provided by creatine can be detrimental to Sport Climb but beneficial for bouldering. Great topic for a video by the way ;)
Have you felt the difference of Creatine on your own body? For me (I used to climb an now do calisthenics and handstandartistic) Creatine was a no brainer for over two years now. Recently I had the idea of testing that theory of a no brainer on my body. So I stoped taking Creatine. Now, close to 6 weeks later I went from 82,6kg to 80,4kg in weight. In addition my relative pulling strength and pushing strength increased. So full ROM handstand pushups got easier, the L-Sit to HS got easier, and the one arm chin up got easier. I recently went for a week of climbing and i could feel the weight difference (there is no training effect here because i havent been climbing for 3 years). So for me i will stay off Creatine for now, just based on that personal experience. Absolut power went down though. The deadlift got slightly more difficult. In all other categories being related to the body weight, I am stronger without Creatine.
I think the main collagen advocate for climbing is Erik Horst (physivantage). The science he quotes is perhaps more relevant than the paper you looked at in this video
I've read the paper that Erik Horst is refering to, and it compares A) Waking up and then *fasting* until exercise, with B) Waking up and drinking a collagen supplement 1 hour before exercise. Of course B has more collagen synthetis. Question is, would eating a cheese burger give the same collagen synthesis, or even more? Also note that the very reason Erik Horst gives for taking the supplement is something along the lines of "because not everybody likes to exercise [1 hour] after having eaten". So I think he doesn't see it as a way to increase collagen synthesis beyond what you do normally, but rather a way to have *normal* synthesis even if you decide to fast. He even states it pretty explicitly on his website - that normal food also contains all the needed collagen.
Yes, I also think that due to Eric Hörst the collagen supplement topic for climbing is getting popular. I listened to his podcasts, and they are certainly well made and some science seems to be behind it. Of course he wants to sell his products but he also mentions that you can get the amino acids necessary without them, even though he claims it may be rather difficult. Would be interesting to hear your opinion on it!
I'm vegan and I take "nutritional yeast" enriched with B12 and another one with vitamin D. I didn't have any lack of any of those vitamins but I also don't feel like they are suplements, at least not like the typical ones. I love the taste and I think of them as complements or spices. Good video!
The only thing I know is I have quite a few vegan climbing friends who never took collagen supplements ( for obvious reasons) and still climbing way stronger and have less finger injuries than me, an omnivore who eats pretty healthy
So many people over do it, it's a real problem. For most people, the best ratio isn't going to be at your lightest possible weight. Its like these people dont know that being malnourished has a negative impact on your strength, power & endurance, as well as just your overall health & mood.
I have recently started taking Beta Alanine. I did some research into it and it appears like it should have some pretty positive effects for climbing (reducing lactic acid production) and studies have shown that cyclists can gain a fairly significant performance advantage. It's too early for me to have noticed any difference but wondered if you had an opinion on it?
Just because research is funded by a company's product, we shouldn't dismiss the result. Who else would fund the research? Sure, there are many ways to skew statistics to get a specific result, but the researchers say the company has no influence over the results. I can imagine that if the product failed at producing results, the paper wouldn't be released, but it did. It should come at no surprise that a product designed by nutritionist to improve skin elasticity ends up succeeding at improving skin elasticity. Releasing the research also opens it up to the scrutiny of the scientific community that will detect any foul play in the researchers' methods (hopefully). Other than that, I agree that there are supplements that probably don't do anything beneficial. Many supplements don't have solid research supporting health benefits. But those supplements that do have research backing them up can be a more convenient path than eating the ideal diet to the same goal. Finally, if you made it this far, you're a real one :)
I have no clue about the internals, but could one imagine that the company just hires 20 different researchers, 19 end up saying there's no statistical benefit, and 1 says there is, just due to pure statistical outliers?
Yes, privately funded research does not imply you should dismiss the whole paper altogether. That being said it is a red flag to take into account when evaluating the degree of veracity of a study. In this study I would be more concerned that the supplement is filled with other stuff than collagen like vitamin C. In the end it seem to show efficacy of that particular supplement blend but not the benefit of collagen itself, since double blind randomized studies are expensive I would say it's a hint that the company does not believe collagen alone would produce good enough results to justify such an investment ^^
I do agree with your general conclusion, but the example you used in the beginning could easily be more relevant than how the skin of women >35 changes by taking collogen. I though you would then look through a more valid climbing related collogen-tested paper (that does not have conflicting interests) and maybe draw a more scientific conclusion.
Good points. With balanced diet you do not really need any supplements. 2 caveats. Protein: You may need some protein supplements if your diet lacks these for any reason, like illness specific diet, vegan or just circumstances where you are unable to provide your body with enough of these, but then again, more important when you try to preserve or built your muscle than in activity like climbing, where excessive muscle mass is not actually desirable. It is also important to mention that it matters more how much total protein you intake during a day rather than the specific time you take. The discussion whether or not to take it before or after the training is moot, it does not matter as long as your daily intake is right. Creatine: That is one supplement that has been proven again and again to work and it has more to do with turning ADP into ATP synthesis than anything else. True is has some effect on body mass as it helps retain water in some extend and increases cell size, but most of all it gives you opportunity to train, or climb, longer and regenerate faster. Also, with vegetarian diet, or vegan, you will not provide your body with enough of it through food. Another important thing to mention is that synthesis of Creatine decreases significantly when you are older, so it works well for older climbers, like if you are over 40 it is a very good idea to supplement it. Omega 3 and B12 shall be supplemented if you are vegan, there is not enough of these in your diet, and these are important. You can get some B12 if you eat a lot of sunflower seeds on vegan diet, but you will not get any Omega fats, and these are very good anti inflammatory agents, so any microdamage in your muscles takes longer to heal. Training is all about creating such microdamage in your muscles so draw conclusions yourself. If you really want to stay Vegan you may supplement or just use a lot of Turmeric in your diet, it works similar to Omega fats, but to is very difficult to absorb by organism, so use it in combination with black pepper, this makes it easier to absorb. Pay attention, some people have problems absorbing B12 from food, it commonly affects people of fair hair and blue eyes, talk to your GP, or doctor, to test for it. Every other supplement is just a moneymaker for the industry.
Regarding taking isolated B12 you are on to something. Tomatos have lycopene which is the red pigment, and it can cure gingivitis. But if lycopene is taken alone in pill form, it has no effect. But surprisingly, green tomatos with no lycopene have no effect either. So it seems like only lycopene *in combination* with the rest of tomatoes have effect.
Lack of vitamin C is known to be a mechanism of degradation of collagen. Not a problem if you eat your veggies. But i speculate that also very short timeperiods of low vitamin C could make the tendons weaker.
I tend to cycle creatine on and off. I generally use it whilst I'm working moves at my grade limits, then leave it off for 4 days when I feel any water retention will be paid off, and any strength gains remain. Try that one day.
Totally agreed, l really liked this video like all the others of course. I have done pretty much like u have done, and now l'm back on a simple diet with no supplement at all
There was a Video from Andrew MacFarlane "I trained like a pro for one month" (wich also had from V5-V7 in the Thumbnail), wich blew up (470k), where he talked about dieting and also very positive about supplementing Creatine and Kollagen. Maybe thats why you geht asked about this alot
Irony is that on package of any supplements you have written something like "You must have healthy diet and training to see the results". I bet he would see the same results with just diet and training alone.
@@tathtath That's not ironic. That sentence is there, because some people are stupid and will think that stuff like whey protein or creatine is a substitute for a balanced diet. And yes they're nothing magical, very likely he would've gotten around the same results without these supplements, but they do help, especially creatine monohydrate. You just wont get the ideal amount of creatine from food alone unless you're eating around 1kg meat everyday, so supplementing creatine is just a little bonus. edit: I would also like to add that creatine is basically free. Costs me around €20 a year to supplement 5g a day.
Imo a lot of climbers are starving themselves to "perfect their power/weight ratio" when they would actually have a better ratio if they were a little heavier. I think if you look into a supplement like creatine & are curious about it, there's very little harm in trying it. Just take a regular dose for 2 or 3 months & see if you notice any improvements. You can always stop taking it & it's a really well researched & low risk supplement. Definateley make sure your diet is in check first, because that is going to be more beneficial than any supplement, but there's no harm in giving some supplements a try. Also do your research before you start taking stuff.
💚🏜💚 i love your cautious approach. I consider myself a naturalist at heart, and appreciate your real life, practical experience./advice Just discovered you today when looking up dry fasting, and second your shout out to Dr Jason Fung.
The irony is that the only supplements i ever felt the difference were: creatine and MSM. Both are natural, well tested and CHEAP! Everything else is just nice package full of either of both above or shitload of caffeine 'mental' effect. Creatine pump effect is nice for throwing metal around but not much useful for climbing, although Eric Horst in his book recommended to add 5g to water and sip through climbing day. Never tested myself though. The best thing for me in term of diet was trying keto for 2 months. Although I keep balanced diet now, i learned about inflammation created by shitty carbs and importance of keeping gut bacteria happy, which resulted in increased overall climbing volume without tendons pain. Took this idea from Dave Macleod and his interview with Neil Gresham. Next step i want to try is to remove wheat (gluten) stuff too to see if i can keep Keto effects on balanced diet :).
it is very nice from you, that you do not propagate supplements (for money of course), because you believe the natural food is the better choice (this is my opinion as well)! Do you think bone broths can help to naturally supplement collagen for climbers? I hope everything is fine by you and your family now days.
My experience with supplements (this is highly subjective and I am not trying to convince anyone about anything... just my thoughts): (1) I've used Animal Flex while recovering from a ring finger tendon injury (I think it was A2 pulley) and I've recovered faster than before. However, I was also experimenting with all sorts of diets back then, so I am not sure if the Animal Flex was really the cause. I had two other friends try Animal Flex (one was recovering from a knee surgery and another from yet another ring finger tendon injury) and they also said that they felt better. (2) A few friends of mine recommended some soluble magnesium thing (came in a plastic envelope; I think it was 400mg) but I cannot say that I've felt any improvement. I've started doing some reading and found out that the magnesium ions are used for muscle contraction/relaxation. The only conclusion that I could reach was that my diet was different than theirs and maybe I did not need to extra magnesium supplements. (3) Artro Help - is a complex of various things that are good for your tendons. I've taken this supplement in 5 cycles (1 cycle = 1 a month to supplement, 1 month off) and I've noticed some improvement regarding recovery. The best effect that I've observed was that the fingers felt less tired from one session to another. (4) Currently, I am not taking anything and I can say that I feel better than ever. However, I've changed something in my diet; I'm mainly doing intermittent fasting 2-3 times/week and I am keeping away from any grain product (except beer). If I have any grain product (like bread, rice, etc.), then I immediately feel tired and heavier. Conclusion: I think the need for supplements is actually pointing to a bad diet. Supplements treat the symptom, but do not help you discover the cause.
cristicombei never heard of animal flex before, thanks for the info. Got a minor finger pulley injury and think about trying animal flex to support the healing process. How often did you take it and can you recommend a specific one?
Hey Mani! Would you like to open your view to doping in climbing community. Be it in competition scene or rock climbing. As you said it’s a commonly shyed subject. And good work here in CZcams - keep it going!
Hey man! Do you think adam ondra partnered with a cbd oil company just for the money? Don't you think he has the privilege of choosing the brands he likes...?
Around 8:55 . I don’t really see what you mean. Do you really think that vitamine B12 (a vitamin) coming from anima products is better than “farmed one” ? I don’t know what’s the science between that, morals I agree with you, I prefer eating real food too. But if you take as much B13 un pills as you would do in steak where is the difference ?
The usefulness of Colagen depends on the timing of its ingestion. You are supposed to consume it before some hard training or rehab so the proteins it decomposes to are easily absorbed and transmited from blood to synovial fluid. There has been recent studies that pointed out that consuming colagen alongside other kinds of proteins or excessive amounts of carbohydrites minimizes its absortion rate.
I would take creatine if I did not gain the water weight. I feel so strong on that crap. I remember reading somewhere that creatine HCL does not have the same weight gain problem. I have not tried it though ....maybe on the next strength cycle
Take creatine HCL, not creatine monohydrate. Much drier strength, endurance, way less water retention. The absorption is much higher in %, I would take 750mg HCl over 5g monohydrate.
Historically people in Norway used to drink cod liver oil which was high in Vit A and D, considering they only get 6 months of sun I'd say it looks to be reasonably effective.
wU69pRspi7jtlPfpzk4b yeah but the stuff I get is pretty cheap and very high in protein so using both together means I have a high protein intake without much effort, and without having to eat a lot of carbs/fat
Your point of view is quite mature. As a medical studant myself, the statement of "poreper diet and healthy lifestyle is all you need" is indeed true for the majority of the humans beens out there. Supplements, as the name itself means are there to "add" to a proper diet. Does everybody needs addition of nutrients? No, even without a good diet. However the question I put is "where does rock climbing population lies in this analysis"? Are the necessitys of this population in particular the same as the population in general? I guess not..
All of your arguments in the video are well put, but in my view, some scratched only the surface. And here I would like to "advocate" in favor of protein supplements and creatine.
1. Protein: anyone can get all the protein/aminoacids needed in the day-to-day with diet, been it vegan or with animal food consumption. However, we can't forget 2 points in favor of protein supplements: it can be a easy/cheap/fast way to get a good protein intake, helping alot of people to balance a timeless rotine with the desire to improve physicaly; also, there is alot of research (realy ALOT) about the peak of protein in plasma with some sorts of supplements (been isolated Whey Protein the faster to be absorved and the one that does the greater peak) and the correlation with this peak with muscle synthesis. Most of us can't get the right amount of stymulus in training to make this peak as usefull as professional athletes, but it's a bonus point for this supplement. (about vegetal protein supplement, it's well stated that it's slowly absorbed but, if you ingest it in higher amounts than whey protein, it get to a high peak of plasma amino acids to about the same as whey, just not in the same speed)
2. Creatine: the argument of weight addition due to water retain is the main negative side of this supplement _FOR CLIMBERS_. However you underrated a major point about the fact that it's almost impossible to get the same amount of creatine from diet than from spplementation. To make the statement with numbers, 1kg of tuna or red meat has roughly 1,5g of Creatine. It's alot of food to a daily intake and you would get only a small percentage of what is recommended by the supplementation that is 0,06g/kg of bodyweight up to 0,15g/kg (to a 70kg person it's about 4,2g up to 10,5g of creatine!). And what about all the people that don't consume animal food? Creatine supplementation is a must. It's the one best supplement that you can take because proper diet is just not capable of providing the same amount of this particular nutrient. And someone in the comments made another point that it's really cheap to supplement.
Abou the weight addition, I believe it's not as good supplement for sport climbing as it's more of a "Resistance sport" than it's good for bouldering in my opinion, as the phospate-creatine matebolism is activated in short bursts of energy, the exactly thing you need in bouldering. The ratio between weight addition/power output provided by creatine can be detrimental to Sport Climb but beneficial for bouldering.
Great topic for a video by the way ;)
Have you felt the difference of Creatine on your own body? For me (I used to climb an now do calisthenics and handstandartistic) Creatine was a no brainer for over two years now. Recently I had the idea of testing that theory of a no brainer on my body. So I stoped taking Creatine. Now, close to 6 weeks later I went from 82,6kg to 80,4kg in weight. In addition my relative pulling strength and pushing strength increased. So full ROM handstand pushups got easier, the L-Sit to HS got easier, and the one arm chin up got easier. I recently went for a week of climbing and i could feel the weight difference (there is no training effect here because i havent been climbing for 3 years). So for me i will stay off Creatine for now, just based on that personal experience. Absolut power went down though. The deadlift got slightly more difficult. In all other categories being related to the body weight, I am stronger without Creatine.
I think the main collagen advocate for climbing is Erik Horst (physivantage). The science he quotes is perhaps more relevant than the paper you looked at in this video
aha didn't know that, thanks for the info
I've read the paper that Erik Horst is refering to, and it compares A) Waking up and then *fasting* until exercise, with B) Waking up and drinking a collagen supplement 1 hour before exercise. Of course B has more collagen synthetis. Question is, would eating a cheese burger give the same collagen synthesis, or even more?
Also note that the very reason Erik Horst gives for taking the supplement is something along the lines of "because not everybody likes to exercise [1 hour] after having eaten". So I think he doesn't see it as a way to increase collagen synthesis beyond what you do normally, but rather a way to have *normal* synthesis even if you decide to fast. He even states it pretty explicitly on his website - that normal food also contains all the needed collagen.
Cause he is the owner of physivantage, his science may not be as objective as needed
Yes, I also think that due to Eric Hörst the collagen supplement topic for climbing is getting popular. I listened to his podcasts, and they are certainly well made and some science seems to be behind it. Of course he wants to sell his products but he also mentions that you can get the amino acids necessary without them, even though he claims it may be rather difficult. Would be interesting to hear your opinion on it!
Please don`f forget: Eric Horst is trying to sell you his supplements, thats why his opinion on this topic is unrelevant. ;)
I'm vegan and I take "nutritional yeast" enriched with B12 and another one with vitamin D. I didn't have any lack of any of those vitamins but I also don't feel like they are suplements, at least not like the typical ones. I love the taste and I think of them as complements or spices. Good video!
The only thing I know is I have quite a few vegan climbing friends who never took collagen supplements ( for obvious reasons) and still climbing way stronger and have less finger injuries than me, an omnivore who eats pretty healthy
I feel like one of the main problems in climbing is anorexia not supplements. Eating basically nothing to achieve the best strength to weight ratio.
So many people over do it, it's a real problem. For most people, the best ratio isn't going to be at your lightest possible weight. Its like these people dont know that being malnourished has a negative impact on your strength, power & endurance, as well as just your overall health & mood.
I have recently started taking Beta Alanine. I did some research into it and it appears like it should have some pretty positive effects for climbing (reducing lactic acid production) and studies have shown that cyclists can gain a fairly significant performance advantage. It's too early for me to have noticed any difference but wondered if you had an opinion on it?
Just because research is funded by a company's product, we shouldn't dismiss the result. Who else would fund the research? Sure, there are many ways to skew statistics to get a specific result, but the researchers say the company has no influence over the results. I can imagine that if the product failed at producing results, the paper wouldn't be released, but it did. It should come at no surprise that a product designed by nutritionist to improve skin elasticity ends up succeeding at improving skin elasticity. Releasing the research also opens it up to the scrutiny of the scientific community that will detect any foul play in the researchers' methods (hopefully).
Other than that, I agree that there are supplements that probably don't do anything beneficial. Many supplements don't have solid research supporting health benefits. But those supplements that do have research backing them up can be a more convenient path than eating the ideal diet to the same goal. Finally, if you made it this far, you're a real one :)
I have no clue about the internals, but could one imagine that the company just hires 20 different researchers, 19 end up saying there's no statistical benefit, and 1 says there is, just due to pure statistical outliers?
Yes, privately funded research does not imply you should dismiss the whole paper altogether. That being said it is a red flag to take into account when evaluating the degree of veracity of a study. In this study I would be more concerned that the supplement is filled with other stuff than collagen like vitamin C. In the end it seem to show efficacy of that particular supplement blend but not the benefit of collagen itself, since double blind randomized studies are expensive I would say it's a hint that the company does not believe collagen alone would produce good enough results to justify such an investment ^^
I do agree with your general conclusion, but the example you used in the beginning could easily be more relevant than how the skin of women >35 changes by taking collogen. I though you would then look through a more valid climbing related collogen-tested paper (that does not have conflicting interests) and maybe draw a more scientific conclusion.
0:10 at first i understood "urine, i mean, great" :D
Good points. With balanced diet you do not really need any supplements.
2 caveats.
Protein:
You may need some protein supplements if your diet lacks these for any reason, like illness specific diet, vegan or just circumstances where you are unable to provide your body with enough of these, but then again, more important when you try to preserve or built your muscle than in activity like climbing, where excessive muscle mass is not actually desirable. It is also important to mention that it matters more how much total protein you intake during a day rather than the specific time you take. The discussion whether or not to take it before or after the training is moot, it does not matter as long as your daily intake is right.
Creatine:
That is one supplement that has been proven again and again to work and it has more to do with turning ADP into ATP synthesis than anything else. True is has some effect on body mass as it helps retain water in some extend and increases cell size, but most of all it gives you opportunity to train, or climb, longer and regenerate faster. Also, with vegetarian diet, or vegan, you will not provide your body with enough of it through food.
Another important thing to mention is that synthesis of Creatine decreases significantly when you are older, so it works well for older climbers, like if you are over 40 it is a very good idea to supplement it.
Omega 3 and B12 shall be supplemented if you are vegan, there is not enough of these in your diet, and these are important. You can get some B12 if you eat a lot of sunflower seeds on vegan diet, but you will not get any Omega fats, and these are very good anti inflammatory agents, so any microdamage in your muscles takes longer to heal. Training is all about creating such microdamage in your muscles so draw conclusions yourself.
If you really want to stay Vegan you may supplement or just use a lot of Turmeric in your diet, it works similar to Omega fats, but to is very difficult to absorb by organism, so use it in combination with black pepper, this makes it easier to absorb.
Pay attention, some people have problems absorbing B12 from food, it commonly affects people of fair hair and blue eyes, talk to your GP, or doctor, to test for it.
Every other supplement is just a moneymaker for the industry.
no bullshit Mani is best Mani
Regarding taking isolated B12 you are on to something. Tomatos have lycopene which is the red pigment, and it can cure gingivitis. But if lycopene is taken alone in pill form, it has no effect. But surprisingly, green tomatos with no lycopene have no effect either. So it seems like only lycopene *in combination* with the rest of tomatoes have effect.
Down to earth as always. Kudos Mani.
Lack of vitamin C is known to be a mechanism of degradation of collagen. Not a problem if you eat your veggies. But i speculate that also very short timeperiods of low vitamin C could make the tendons weaker.
I tend to cycle creatine on and off. I generally use it whilst I'm working moves at my grade limits, then leave it off for 4 days when I feel any water retention will be paid off, and any strength gains remain. Try that one day.
Creatine HCL is great in not retaining water as much. Take 750mg per serving
Totally agreed, l really liked this video like all the others of course.
I have done pretty much like u have done, and now l'm back on a simple diet with no supplement at all
There was a Video from Andrew MacFarlane "I trained like a pro for one month" (wich also had from V5-V7 in the Thumbnail), wich blew up (470k), where he talked about dieting and also very positive about supplementing Creatine and Kollagen. Maybe thats why you geht asked about this alot
Creatine gets hyped up a lot in the fitness industry. Way more than Andrew can
Irony is that on package of any supplements you have written something like "You must have healthy diet and training to see the results". I bet he would see the same results with just diet and training alone.
@@tathtath That's not ironic. That sentence is there, because some people are stupid and will think that stuff like whey protein or creatine is a substitute for a balanced diet. And yes they're nothing magical, very likely he would've gotten around the same results without these supplements, but they do help, especially creatine monohydrate. You just wont get the ideal amount of creatine from food alone unless you're eating around 1kg meat everyday, so supplementing creatine is just a little bonus.
edit: I would also like to add that creatine is basically free. Costs me around €20 a year to supplement 5g a day.
Imo a lot of climbers are starving themselves to "perfect their power/weight ratio" when they would actually have a better ratio if they were a little heavier.
I think if you look into a supplement like creatine & are curious about it, there's very little harm in trying it. Just take a regular dose for 2 or 3 months & see if you notice any improvements. You can always stop taking it & it's a really well researched & low risk supplement.
Definateley make sure your diet is in check first, because that is going to be more beneficial than any supplement, but there's no harm in giving some supplements a try. Also do your research before you start taking stuff.
thanks for that statement. i suplement 5-HTP it improves my sleep- quality and ammount so it helps me recover better/faster. all the best.
💚🏜💚 i love your cautious approach. I consider myself a naturalist at heart, and appreciate your real life, practical experience./advice Just discovered you today when looking up dry fasting, and second your shout out to Dr Jason Fung.
The irony is that the only supplements i ever felt the difference were: creatine and MSM. Both are natural, well tested and CHEAP! Everything else is just nice package full of either of both above or shitload of caffeine 'mental' effect.
Creatine pump effect is nice for throwing metal around but not much useful for climbing, although Eric Horst in his book recommended to add 5g to water and sip through climbing day. Never tested myself though.
The best thing for me in term of diet was trying keto for 2 months. Although I keep balanced diet now, i learned about inflammation created by shitty carbs and importance of keeping gut bacteria happy, which resulted in increased overall climbing volume without tendons pain. Took this idea from Dave Macleod and his interview with Neil Gresham.
Next step i want to try is to remove wheat (gluten) stuff too to see if i can keep Keto effects on balanced diet :).
What do you understand by shitty carbs? Fruit? Candy? Grains? Beans? What
the climbing coach Eric Hörst sells collagen supplement. He obviously talks a lot about it in is podcast.
it is very nice from you, that you do not propagate supplements (for money of course), because you believe the natural food is the better choice (this is my opinion as well)! Do you think bone broths can help to naturally supplement collagen for climbers? I hope everything is fine by you and your family now days.
My experience with supplements (this is highly subjective and I am not trying to convince anyone about anything... just my thoughts):
(1) I've used Animal Flex while recovering from a ring finger tendon injury (I think it was A2 pulley) and I've recovered faster than before. However, I was also experimenting with all sorts of diets back then, so I am not sure if the Animal Flex was really the cause. I had two other friends try Animal Flex (one was recovering from a knee surgery and another from yet another ring finger tendon injury) and they also said that they felt better.
(2) A few friends of mine recommended some soluble magnesium thing (came in a plastic envelope; I think it was 400mg) but I cannot say that I've felt any improvement. I've started doing some reading and found out that the magnesium ions are used for muscle contraction/relaxation. The only conclusion that I could reach was that my diet was different than theirs and maybe I did not need to extra magnesium supplements.
(3) Artro Help - is a complex of various things that are good for your tendons. I've taken this supplement in 5 cycles (1 cycle = 1 a month to supplement, 1 month off) and I've noticed some improvement regarding recovery. The best effect that I've observed was that the fingers felt less tired from one session to another.
(4) Currently, I am not taking anything and I can say that I feel better than ever. However, I've changed something in my diet; I'm mainly doing intermittent fasting 2-3 times/week and I am keeping away from any grain product (except beer). If I have any grain product (like bread, rice, etc.), then I immediately feel tired and heavier.
Conclusion: I think the need for supplements is actually pointing to a bad diet. Supplements treat the symptom, but do not help you discover the cause.
cristicombei never heard of animal flex before, thanks for the info. Got a minor finger pulley injury and think about trying animal flex to support the healing process. How often did you take it and can you recommend a specific one?
It loolks like this: www.animalpak.com/animal-flex-1222. Read the instructions for the dosage.
Can you please elaborate at some point on consumption of raw animal products. I for one would be interested in hearing more. Thank you MagicMani!
Hey Mani! Would you like to open your view to doping in climbing community. Be it in competition scene or rock climbing. As you said it’s a commonly shyed subject. And good work here in CZcams - keep it going!
Hey man! Do you think adam ondra partnered with a cbd oil company just for the money? Don't you think he has the privilege of choosing the brands he likes...?
Could you give some examples of 'raw animal products' ? 12:16
Around 8:55 . I don’t really see what you mean. Do you really think that vitamine B12 (a vitamin) coming from anima products is better than “farmed one” ? I don’t know what’s the science between that, morals I agree with you, I prefer eating real food too. But if you take as much B13 un pills as you would do in steak where is the difference ?
I strongly recommend creatine HCL over monohydrate for climbing
The usefulness of Colagen depends on the timing of its ingestion. You are supposed to consume it before some hard training or rehab so the proteins it decomposes to are easily absorbed and transmited from blood to synovial fluid. There has been recent studies that pointed out that consuming colagen alongside other kinds of proteins or excessive amounts of carbohydrites minimizes its absortion rate.
Hey mani! Do you think jumping rope is a good way to slim down legs(when you do it low intensity)
could work short term, as it resembles a short toe jog, but haven't tried it
Food supplement is just a lucrative industry.
how about gelatine? =D
I would take creatine if I did not gain the water weight. I feel so strong on that crap.
I remember reading somewhere that creatine HCL does not have the same weight gain problem. I have not tried it though ....maybe on the next strength cycle
Take creatine HCL, not creatine monohydrate. Much drier strength, endurance, way less water retention. The absorption is much higher in %, I would take 750mg HCl over 5g monohydrate.
what about vitamin d in the winter? is there a no supps strategy?
Historically people in Norway used to drink cod liver oil which was high in Vit A and D, considering they only get 6 months of sun I'd say it looks to be reasonably effective.
urine? I mean, great.
Hi Mani
Gloriously debunked. Thanks. Example for healthy raw meet product pls
i find whey protein isolate is good for recovery and strength, and is there is very low chance of negative health impact from it
no need to throw money away on protein supplement when you can get it through food
wU69pRspi7jtlPfpzk4b yeah but the stuff I get is pretty cheap and very high in protein so using both together means I have a high protein intake without much effort, and without having to eat a lot of carbs/fat
same i find it crazy how when i use it after a workout i am not even sore the next day
Lets talk about supplements. Urine. I'm in. Great :D