Fighting Men of Rhodesia ep29 | Dale Collett SCR | Selous Scouts

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  • čas pƙidĂĄn 23. 02. 2021
  • Welcome to a series of interviews with the Fighting Men of Rhodesia as Hannes Wessels & I try to record the war stories of these outstanding warriors.
    The Rhodesian forces produced some of the finest fighting soldiers and airmen of the era and Dale Collett SCR, who served in the RAR and Selous Scouts, is one of those men.
    For those who wish to obtain Hannes Wessels' books please check out:
    exmontibusmedia.co.za/
    Or check out his blog at:
    africaunauthorised.com/
    For excellent Rhodesian cammo clothing please contact:
    / rhodesian-brushstroke-...
    Music by Epidemic Sound:
    www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
    If you enjoyed this video please consider subscribing (it's free)
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    Join us on Patreon - / johnvanzyl

Komentáƙe • 144

  • @goraandre-manuel4126
    @goraandre-manuel4126 Pƙed 3 lety +35

    great to hear about Rhodesian War stories .My father is an Ex black RHODIE MILITARY POLICE . He is still fit and strong at 74 great and Gallant proud RHODIE ......Ngoni Gora

  • @johngartner6026
    @johngartner6026 Pƙed 3 lety +38

    Good to see Dale again - last time I saw him was in 2013 when I attended the Selous Scouts 40th anniversary held in Johannesburg. Needless to say, we all looked a lot older than when we had served in Selous Scouts.

  • @Tomkkat15
    @Tomkkat15 Pƙed 3 lety +69

    Much respect for all Rhodesian veterans, it's critically important that we hear their stories. Wishing you well from America!

  • @craigeastmure7320
    @craigeastmure7320 Pƙed 3 lety +42

    What a man to look up to. Respect does not come close to describe this gentleman. Thank goodness for men like this who kept me safe as a young boy growing up in Salisbury

    • @poppycalliope6793
      @poppycalliope6793 Pƙed 3 lety

      Loved Salisbury!!

    • @tyroniousyrownshoolacez2347
      @tyroniousyrownshoolacez2347 Pƙed 2 lety

      I used to love those Salisbury steak frozen dinners by Swanson back in the day, kept me free from hunger. Bless you heroes.....bless you.

  • @hudsonchalmers6504
    @hudsonchalmers6504 Pƙed 3 lety +43

    46 years later, and ex RR ,am absolutely indebted to the Special Forces in the forefront of the war. I had many friends in the forces . I salute you Dale

    • @pieterwillembotha6719
      @pieterwillembotha6719 Pƙed 2 lety +1

      what company of the RR were you a part of?

    • @hudsonchalmers6504
      @hudsonchalmers6504 Pƙed 2 lety +1

      @@pieterwillembotha6719 5RR Based in Sinoia

    • @pieterwillembotha6719
      @pieterwillembotha6719 Pƙed 2 lety +1

      @@hudsonchalmers6504 what sort of action did the regulars and territorials see?

    • @hudsonchalmers6504
      @hudsonchalmers6504 Pƙed 2 lety +1

      @@pieterwillembotha6719 The series by John Van Zyl and Hannes will give you very good insight on the regulars and the incredible role they played, that included the conscript's in the RLI that that were effectively regulars. See Miles Noon who articulates very well and You tube with Martin Craemer "Romeo Romeo"will give you a very good insight into the TF's role

    • @pieterwillembotha6719
      @pieterwillembotha6719 Pƙed 2 lety

      @@hudsonchalmers6504 wonder if Johnny will ever interview anyone who was with the RhAC?

  • @annaliedupreez9488
    @annaliedupreez9488 Pƙed 2 lety +6

    I watched this episode a second time (like many other episodes here) and came again under the conviction of how a great man Dave Colette is.

  • @neilswart7271
    @neilswart7271 Pƙed 3 lety +24

    GREAT podcast!!!! . The Best bush warriors of all time . Second to none . Men of Men .

  • @zanewelensky6377
    @zanewelensky6377 Pƙed 3 lety +26

    Dale Collett....... A mans man, a humble gentleman, a decent human being and a soldier of note....Dale always leaves a good impression where ever he goes. As a coach of wheelchair basketball at Mandeville in Johannesburg l experienced Dales positive influence on all who met him.... I am richer in character for meeting and interacting with this man

    • @garetht5095
      @garetht5095 Pƙed 3 lety

      Welensky are you good chap ??

    • @zanewelensky6377
      @zanewelensky6377 Pƙed 3 lety

      @@garetht5095 Tiffin.. are you??

    • @garetht5095
      @garetht5095 Pƙed 3 lety

      @@zanewelensky6377 -- Doing OK chum -- trust you are ok ?

    • @zanewelensky6377
      @zanewelensky6377 Pƙed 3 lety

      @@garetht5095 me all good, miss the boys in Old Rose though... Give them my best please and buy all the lads a drink from me and make Pennington pay for the round.

    • @garetht5095
      @garetht5095 Pƙed 3 lety +1

      @@zanewelensky6377 Pennington PAY ?? What shit are you on ........

  • @itsmeagain8604
    @itsmeagain8604 Pƙed 3 lety +15

    Amazing. We want more, moRE, MORE !

  • @sennest
    @sennest Pƙed 3 lety +10

    Incredible story of a true iron man!!😎👍👍 Thank you John and Hannes. Dale is a true inspiration an I'm so grateful to be able to listen to him and his story🙏🙏✹⚡✹

  • @AnnE-mn8ny
    @AnnE-mn8ny Pƙed 3 lety +11

    Dale Collett is one in a Billion.

  • @tonykirkham6316
    @tonykirkham6316 Pƙed 3 lety +8

    One he'll of a good man,can't get enough of these stories,thanks very much.

  • @stevelailvaux9495
    @stevelailvaux9495 Pƙed 3 lety +7

    Thank you what brave humble man...

  • @pamberinehondo9447
    @pamberinehondo9447 Pƙed 3 lety +23

    An Inspiration to all Rhodesians, not only over 40 years ago but now as well. Thanks for the stories Dale and keep safe. Hannes and John....Fighting men of Rhodesia just gets better and better, thank you!!

  • @Toncor12
    @Toncor12 Pƙed 3 lety +19

    Good questions asked of a very brave man, humble as all the others. I look forward to part 2 very much indeed.

  • @ledman9135
    @ledman9135 Pƙed 3 lety +6

    Pleasure to meet you Mr Collett. Awesome listening and all the best. 🩅

  • @russellfulton6935
    @russellfulton6935 Pƙed 3 lety +11

    Just a wonderful man and an inspiration to so many. An extraordinary man whose selfless sacrifice is remembered, acknowledged and respected by all who served.
    Dale's love for his 'Boss' (RRD) is a clear testament to the love and respect for his former C.O. (his emotions graphically attest to that...loved it by the way).
    Salute Dale, I have so much respect for you from so many, many years ago. You teach us all a great deal about humility.
    Outstanding interview Hannes, and to John, yet another excellent post!

    • @b.bruster1462
      @b.bruster1462 Pƙed 3 lety +1

      Coming from you Russell; that means so much. That ‘Band of Brothers’ thing; has never been found after we leave.

    • @russellfulton6935
      @russellfulton6935 Pƙed 3 lety +1

      @@b.bruster1462 Cheers mate. I'm a simple arb in the grand scheme of things but Dale is truly a legend and deserving of accoloade. Best to you mate.

    • @b.bruster1462
      @b.bruster1462 Pƙed 3 lety +1

      @@russellfulton6935 Cheers mate

  • @corneliusbornman4376
    @corneliusbornman4376 Pƙed 3 lety +5

    Just the best in Africa ,the best men ,the best results . All spoilt by politics . Good intrviev,thank you CJ Bornman

  • @brendonalison2472
    @brendonalison2472 Pƙed 3 lety +12

    Looking forward to the next interview. Much appreciated.

  • @fraseredkins2509
    @fraseredkins2509 Pƙed 3 lety +12

    Wonderful strength of character

  • @seamusthorpe392
    @seamusthorpe392 Pƙed 3 lety +4

    Quality officer and gentleman very humble .

  • @InvisibleHotdog
    @InvisibleHotdog Pƙed 3 lety +22

    I appreciate all of these. I'm not Rhodesian or that age, but it's really something to have these stories and wisdom for the next generations.
    If I can make a request, can we get more info for the selection processes? It'd be great to know what made operators, officers, and other exemplary service people.

  • @marktaylor4025
    @marktaylor4025 Pƙed 2 lety +3

    Siyabonga uNumzane - bought back faded black and white memories back in to full colour - as a kid living living in Kariba 1973 - taking a family game drive in my dads Ford Galaxy on a Sunday afternoon as you did - plenty jumbos - how can this detached techno driven world ever satisfy? Ask the Rolling Stones even with all their money?

  • @rhodesia1578
    @rhodesia1578 Pƙed 3 lety +5

    Wow that was another interesting episode... thanks Dale for your memories and views .. thank you for all you did . We Rhodesians owe you all a massive debt of gratitude ! A humble man . I have much respect for all the Scouts and what they achieved was truly amazing . Dangerous work and unpredictable ! God bless you all , RIP to the ones gone but never forgotten ! Without the scouts the outcome of the war may have been very different and not in a good way ! Thanks Hannes and John for another excellent addition to this series . đŸ™đŸ»đŸ‘đŸ‘đŸ‘đŸ‘đŸ‘đŸ‘

  • @howardchambers2575
    @howardchambers2575 Pƙed 3 lety +12

    Worked for Dale`s uncle Rodney in the early eighties driving trucks for him.met Dale twice in SA.Big respect for the man.

  • @matthewelias4925
    @matthewelias4925 Pƙed 3 lety +7

    A superb interview

  • @quentinfourie2173
    @quentinfourie2173 Pƙed 3 lety +11

    It was a privilege to hear Dale's story.

  • @alancurrie6234
    @alancurrie6234 Pƙed 3 lety +13

    never had the privilege of meeting the man,but as a young NS soldier what a inspiration he was.

  • @numbnuts3633
    @numbnuts3633 Pƙed 2 lety +3

    What an interesting and enlightening interview. Dale seems to me a genuine bloke and very much appreciate his and your time in bringing this valuable history to us. May it never die.

  • @angusrar
    @angusrar Pƙed 2 lety +3

    Fascinating interview.

  • @waynevarkevisser7589
    @waynevarkevisser7589 Pƙed rokem +1

    I grew up in Mangula ..as a boy at primary school.My memories of the war and the Alouettes landing on our Recreation clubs'..sports fields and the sights I saw ..are forever in my dreams and thoughts..blessed Rhodesia.

  • @brianandtarryn
    @brianandtarryn Pƙed 3 lety +8

    Respect.

  • @shaunryan6
    @shaunryan6 Pƙed 3 lety +5

    From Support Commando RLI good job

  • @762parabillim
    @762parabillim Pƙed 3 měsĂ­ci +1

    Inspirational. Good man.

  • @theunsmuller9729
    @theunsmuller9729 Pƙed 3 lety +7

    Inspirational, is all one can say,thank you!

  • @markledeboer7210
    @markledeboer7210 Pƙed 2 lety +1

    Thank you for a very inspiring, forthright and honest interview. Dale is a true gentleman and legend.
    A real touch of class in setting the record straight re the Ron Reid Daly scandal. Both are and were very proud men !

  • @gjrbrown
    @gjrbrown Pƙed 3 lety +5

    These interviews are priceless contributions to the historical record - grateful thanks to Johan, Andre and all involved !!

  • @atbac7
    @atbac7 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    amazing show - he is a half a man but as big as a platoon full of men. not an iota of self pity just camaraderie, bonhomie and love for the force and life

  • @MOOSEDOWNUNDER
    @MOOSEDOWNUNDER Pƙed 3 lety +4

    Bloody hell what a story and what a man. Can't keep this bugger down it seems. Bravo. Looking forward to part two and more. Keep it up Dale. Cheers to ya.

  • @dirkshumbadrinkersb4908
    @dirkshumbadrinkersb4908 Pƙed 3 lety +7

    Huge thanks for this interview Hanes and Dale all memories of some very good times and still the humble people we were. Haven't spoken to Tim Bax for a while also a very humble man.

  • @matswikstrom7453
    @matswikstrom7453 Pƙed 3 lety +11

    You are amazing people and are a great inspiration to all of us!
    Heartfelt greetings from Sweden 🇾đŸ‡Ș

  • @JeffreyThomas-th2ps
    @JeffreyThomas-th2ps Pƙed 5 měsĂ­ci +1

    My father sadly passed away now was called up to the territorials in the Uk as he had a degree as a chemical engineer he was put on a citezins force officers course out of 783 on course 3 made 2nd lt he was one of them and 14 made 2 strioes the rest whashed out he was eent to cyprus for 6 months then to Germany as a transport officer for centurian tanks there he met my mom the brigadiers daughter then along came me in South Africa i also got commission in the Sandf spent 13 months on the border a totally different war our Generals were very careful with troopies casualty rates so as not to get too much backlash from the parents of all the citezin force on the border we won all our contacts but we also went the way of being sold out respect to yoorbwarrior nation from a warrior family may God rest there souls salute!!!!.

  • @valansley
    @valansley Pƙed 3 lety +2

    Thanks to men like you Rhodesians are still successful all over the world We will not forget

  • @CrashedSuperman
    @CrashedSuperman Pƙed 3 lety +12

    Another great interview. Selous Scouts undoubted the best at what you did and set the standard for all other SF. Your “Standard” is kept safe. Pamwe Chete.

  • @barbaracurrie3187
    @barbaracurrie3187 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    So inspiring. What a brave man.

  • @joer9156
    @joer9156 Pƙed 3 lety +14

    Another wonderful interview. Much respect to Dale. This is such an important project. Are you planning to have Martin from 5RR who has the Five Romeo Romeo channel on at some point? I know he didn't reach as high a rank as some of the others you have interviewed, and that he has told many of his stories on his own channel, but Hannes asks such thoughtful questions that I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor. Sounds like he got into a fair few punch-ups and interesting incidents, and he has such a great sense of humour, I think he would be an excellent guest.

    • @fightingmenofrhodesia
      @fightingmenofrhodesia  Pƙed 3 lety +6

      Martin and I are planning to do one together soon. Probably in the bush with Martin & I doing a basic tracking tutorial..

    • @joer9156
      @joer9156 Pƙed 3 lety +3

      @@fightingmenofrhodesia Excellent, I'm looking forward to that :)

  • @geoffdean529
    @geoffdean529 Pƙed 3 lety +5

    What fantastic insights to the what actually happened on the ground.The descriptions of the contacts and how they went down are riveting. I wait in anticipation for the next interviews. Much respect for these brave men. Greetings from SA.

  • @Cammoyoung
    @Cammoyoung Pƙed 3 lety +11

    Huge respect, so glad you got Dale to talk on the series. Awesome to see the Real Deal after reading about him for all these years.

  • @prwchan
    @prwchan Pƙed 3 lety +3

    "We were family", yeah, that's how it works. People are people, loyalty is everything.

  • @owenlang6235
    @owenlang6235 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    Looking forward to part 2 of this larger than life man. Many thanks to you all for getting these brave men to let it all out and perhaps helping some to cope better in ways most of us cannot understand.

  • @rd1509
    @rd1509 Pƙed 5 měsĂ­ci +1

    Thank you for your service. Salute

  • @raywoolnough2114
    @raywoolnough2114 Pƙed rokem +1

    John, thank you for another great video interview. Dale - What a great man! God bless you Sir. Also, Mr Daly was set up.

  • @rossitherhodie5659
    @rossitherhodie5659 Pƙed 2 lety +3

    Respect Ishe.

  • @cyberphox1
    @cyberphox1 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    Yet an other amazing talk. Makes my day when there is a new video uploaded, thanks Hannes and John.

  • @LeonSteyn-rx7uu
    @LeonSteyn-rx7uu Pƙed rokem +1

    What an inspiration you are. I met you through my dad, Danie Steyn (Cpt.) Also with Scouts at the time.

  • @martinstroud2842
    @martinstroud2842 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    An inspirational soldier and human

  • @Wolf-hh4rv
    @Wolf-hh4rv Pƙed 4 měsĂ­ci +1

    Great man, Selous Scouts Great Regiment đŸ’ȘđŸ’Ș

  • @prwchan
    @prwchan Pƙed 3 lety +3

    So interesting, and much respect. A true warrior then and still fighting.

  • @atilla6612
    @atilla6612 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    Excellent !!!

  • @angusclark145
    @angusclark145 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    Thanks guys.

  • @davereid-daly2205
    @davereid-daly2205 Pƙed 3 lety +21

    Those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end.......What a special group of men, Dale remember when we kidnapped Tim Bax from the General hospital in his bed and delivered him to St Giles for your surprise birthday party, and Rob Warraker sat in a wheelchair with a tray of beer glasses passing them out to all the other patients. And the food for the party was late because Larry the cook had sent it to the wrong hospital.

  • @grantsanders4211
    @grantsanders4211 Pƙed 3 lety +6

    Tough as nails! Would love to hear more from terrs who switched sides and served in the Scouts. Also curious to hear from ex-terrs themselves! Not sure if that's possible?

  • @ktmtragic1397
    @ktmtragic1397 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    Thanks guys !

  • @brucedevine8644
    @brucedevine8644 Pƙed 3 lety +1

    Huge respect!!! You are looking well Dale.

  • @kennethmashingaidze3926
    @kennethmashingaidze3926 Pƙed 2 lety +2

    Interesting interview. Please try get some black selous scouts on the programme. It would be interesting to hear their perspective

  • @rogermoore6726
    @rogermoore6726 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    Lekker interview đŸ™đŸ€œđŸ€›

  • @ric6383
    @ric6383 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    Totally agree with the opening remarks. However bad things are for you, thinking of someone like Dale Collet puts an end to the whining.

  • @mississippimoondog
    @mississippimoondog Pƙed 3 lety +2

    Great story

  • @AlphaChimpEnergy
    @AlphaChimpEnergy Pƙed 3 lety +3

    Gettin after it!

  • @alistairbushney6578
    @alistairbushney6578 Pƙed 11 měsĂ­ci +1

    Dale you a legend brother

  • @enriquelago121
    @enriquelago121 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    El ejército Rhodesiano fue el mejor de África y sin duda uno de los mejores del mundo.

  • @teddysalad8227
    @teddysalad8227 Pƙed 3 lety +1

    I read some information on the Selous Scouts many years ago. They impressed the hell out of me.

  • @matthewthomas4393
    @matthewthomas4393 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    on my own I always remember my mates from that time in my life as a this or that

  • @maddog119
    @maddog119 Pƙed 3 lety

    Love what Hannes, John and the team are doing. I was at Llewellyn barracks in 1971/2 and would appreciate the contributors providing approximate dates to events they describe so I can relate them to my own experiences.

  • @grahamstebbings8278
    @grahamstebbings8278 Pƙed 3 lety +7

    The med beds will be able to sort Dale out, please look into this for him.

  • @jandejong5307
    @jandejong5307 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    Another episode please.

  • @Saffazimbo
    @Saffazimbo Pƙed 2 lety +1

    Once training for a triathlon in Joburg got a flat on my bike out Fourways way in Joburg and was picked up by Dale. Knew exactly who he was. His cousin / niece (?) married a SAcan mate of mine.

  • @fernanddurler4709
    @fernanddurler4709 Pƙed 13 dny +1

    Fortunate rich family boytjie

  • @wadejustanamerican1201
    @wadejustanamerican1201 Pƙed 2 lety +1

    Thank you for the video. I was a small kid back then. My father told me that everyone had abandoned Rhodesia to the communist.

  • @mrd7067
    @mrd7067 Pƙed 2 lety +1

    I have read a few books about rhodesia and south africa now.
    There are a few things i don`t understand yet.
    One is there seemed to be "stars" soldiers could get to get extra pay regardless of rank. Atleast for the lower enlisted. How did this concept work and who decided about it? Was it bsed on quotas?
    The second is how much time did it take to live off of the land (in regards to food) and what state are you in when you only eat very little with quite a lot of movement for prolonged periods of time.
    Third is that somewhere there was a supposedly RECCE survival belt mentioned. Maybe there is someone who can explain this to me (and its contents) and how it was worn, especially in conjunction with a backpack and other load bearing equipment.
    Greedings from a former german airborne soldier.
    Thanks for your time.

  • @trajansand5370
    @trajansand5370 Pƙed 2 lety +1

    Any interviews or recorded account of Americans in the bush war ?

  • @maddog.mcewan
    @maddog.mcewan Pƙed 2 lety +1

    intensely proud of you... beautifully done ! any on SA border war?

  • @The_ElunduExpeditionProject
    @The_ElunduExpeditionProject Pƙed 2 lety +1

    I would love to get in touch with Dale because my surname is Collett and I have family ties to Rhodesia. I would love to know if we are related in any way.

  • @eugenedavid3932
    @eugenedavid3932 Pƙed 5 měsĂ­ci +1

    Did Dale Collet also serve with SAS.

  • @FGS-yk3vc
    @FGS-yk3vc Pƙed 3 lety +1

    The man looks hardened

  • @royalordinance
    @royalordinance Pƙed 3 lety +1

    Kleenex moment.
    Rhodesians of All colours Forever.

  • @Sandray16
    @Sandray16 Pƙed 3 lety +3

    Gents, a question for those who served in the Rhodesian armed forces. I think it rather a shame to see the insignia of old units fade away and to that end would like to show support for those who served by wearing a tee shirt or rugby top with unit insignia. As the old saying goes, all we really leave is our reputation. Would it be seen to be "waltish" to have someone who never served Rhodesia wear these insignia? I ask because I do not wish to offend those who did serve.

    • @fightingmenofrhodesia
      @fightingmenofrhodesia  Pƙed 3 lety +3

      I would be happy for you to wear our insignia, given the spirit in which you ask the question. A "Walt" would falsely claim to have been in the unit. Thankyou for your support! BTW, we have non-members of the RLI join our Regimental Association as "Legacy" members. One day we'll all be gone but they will keep our memories alive and honour our fallen.

    • @Sandray16
      @Sandray16 Pƙed 3 lety +2

      @@fightingmenofrhodesia Thank you for your prompt answer. It will be a pleasure to wear and highlight your history.

  • @billtillet5134
    @billtillet5134 Pƙed 3 lety +1

    Why the choice of tennis shoes as against boots by many of the Rhodesian forces , especially so operating in thornveldt ? I would think most thorns can perforate a tennis shoe sole with ease.

    • @fightingmenofrhodesia
      @fightingmenofrhodesia  Pƙed 3 lety +3

      Actually the Rhodesian bush was not that harsh. I mainly wore veldskoens but some of the guys liked super-pro tackies but I found them to smelly and the anti-track soles were slippery on rock when wet. The early boots were very heavy and left distinctive tracks so later on in the war boots were almost like veldskoens with a latex sole. The things we had to watch out for in our bush and in Moz was the wag-'n-beitjie bush, Buffalo Beans and black-jacks. Of course insects too! Mopanie flies were the worst, tsetse fkies & mosquitoes..

  • @johnsmith-ht3sy
    @johnsmith-ht3sy Pƙed 3 lety

    15:35 the locals where unaware that a throat wound would be fatal.

  • @klaudiuszgoralewski4038
    @klaudiuszgoralewski4038 Pƙed 10 měsĂ­ci +1

    Only Rhodesia

  • @simonsparks5738
    @simonsparks5738 Pƙed 3 měsĂ­ci +1

    Did they shoot that terr that wounded you Dale ? If they did who tagged him ?

  • @marcogram1216
    @marcogram1216 Pƙed 3 lety +2

    PAMWE CHETE

  • @carolinephiri2328
    @carolinephiri2328 Pƙed 2 lety +2

    Yeah you won and Rhodes must be smiling in his grave at Matope hill.

  • @mandlakhumalo2708
    @mandlakhumalo2708 Pƙed 3 lety +1

    Please come back to Zim take the country it's very bad

  • @peterclark6290
    @peterclark6290 Pƙed 2 lety +1

    Rhodesia's problems in a nutshell. Too many English migrants who prepared before arrival by adopting an accent on the boat and intended to live high off their newfound and faked prestige.
    Were any of these bananas (yellow on the outside, white in the middle and turn black under pressure) 'noticed' in the Bush War? [not PC but a good laugh from the time, re: Welensky & Co.]
    I did meet one in Australia, a small (5'4") nuggety type, old but still fit, who claimed to have been involved in Rhodesian SAS training, he was believable, it was a long while ago, a Scot possibly? (but they aren't English)