Double Tracking and Panning - The "Secret" to Mixing Heavy Guitars
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- I've been asked on several occasions how to fix a rhythm guitar that sounds weak and lost in the mix and I always have one question..."Are you double tracking and hard panning your rhythm guitars?" It's not really a secret...its a tried and true method that some people just don't know about.
Now this is just one part of mixing and there are lot of other things you can do to fine tune things, but if you start with this simple trick, you'll be well on your way to big, powerful rhythm guitars in your mixes.
**For best results, listen to the mix examples with good headphones or a good set of studio monitors...phones generally smash everything down to mono so you might not hear the results very well**
0:00 - Intro
0:47 - The Question
1:35 - Get it right at the source
2:34 - Step 1: Double track your guitars
3:42 - Step 2: Hard pan left and right
5:11 - Example explanation
5:50 - Example 1: Single track center vs double tracked and hard panned
7:26 - Example 2: Double tracked center vs double tracked and hard panned
8:18 - Wrap up
#mixingheavyguitars #doubletracking #hardpanning - Hudba
This technique works very well with vocals. Just don’t be lazy. Record multiple live takes and go until you get two takes that match up.
I generally keep main vocal doubles up the middle, but I will double and pan out vocal harmonies.
Any doubles (guitars, vocals, whatever) should ALWAYS be separate live recordings. I'm not a fan of the copy/paste style of doubles...I think it lacks depth compared to a true double.
@@SwedeStudios i find that copy paste doubles and simply adding a 6-8ms delay to the 2nd guitar works really well. I'd probably prefer another take with the 2nd guitar but for demos/getting ideas onto the DAW a delay works really well
Absolutely, in a pinch, a copied track with a slight delay can work. I've done it when mixing projects recorded elsewhere and I didn't have the option of a second track, but I always prefer an actual double whenever possible.
Bro that example you gave changed the game for me. Im now a believer in hard hard panning bro thank you
Glad it helped. It doesn't work in every situation, but if you have a definite "rhythm guitar" in the song, this method works great to make the guitars sound huge.
It's amazing how the doubletrack+pan makes it sound as if the bass is 3-dimensional, or as if the rhythm guitars have really strong bass to them, but really it's the bass guitar getting its "free lane" in the center :p
Yup, when everything has its own space to breathe, things sound so much better.
Great video man, I’m trying to get into recording and mixing with my band pretty soon and videos like this are super helpful thank you
Glad to help out. Feel free to reach out if you have any other questions when the time comes.
Perfectly explained. Well done and great video!
Thanks a lot. Simple but effective technique.
Great explanation and something that is very important. I was tracking a few days ago and doubled tracked the guitars. Hadn't panned them at the time but as soon as i did the bass just popped right out! I had to actually turn the bass down as it was so much more pronounced
Yep, it's amazing how things in the middle will pop out once given the room to breathe.
Awesome tutorial, Swede!
🤘
i agree with you about panning. it works really well.
Great explanation. I was wondering in terms of the the last part where you double track and pan left and right, are you recording two separate guitar parts, two for the left and two for the right, or are you just using the same track but doubling it to get two?
For rhythm guitars I'm only using 2 tracks. 2 separate recordings of the same parts. One is panned full left, the other full right.
In the video, I copied those doubles and kept one pair up the center and the other pair panned out hard just to show the difference between them.
In practice though, it's just the two tracks, separately recorded.
@SwedeStudios Thank you so much, this is really helpful, I really appreciate it.
Not only do the guitars get bigger. The drums immediately have more presence in the mix and gives the songs the punch.
Definitely...everything has more room to breath when they aren't fighting over the same sonic space.
I knew this already, but I really like the highway analogy. Very well explained and makes perfect sense of what actually happens.
Thanks. I always try to use examples that make sense for people that are just starting out and maybe don't know the technical side of things.
If you intend to create a part of the song that requieres 2 guitars (riffing and playing with harmonies, in flames style sort to speak) you double track each side? (4 tracks) or pan them and thats it? (2 tracks) ? Great video, thanks a lot!
It really depends on the parts. This method is more fitting for songs that have a dedicated rhythm guitar, so if one guitar is playing more of a rhythm and the other is playing more of a lead (melody line playing off the riff), I'll double and pan the chunkier rhythm part and then leave the melody up the middle like a lead.
If they are both playing melody lines (harmonizing with each other), sometimes I'll leave them both up the middle, sometimes an in between pan to widen things up. You just have to play with it to find out what sounds best to you.
ALSO PEOPLE, Don't forget, a good BASS GUITAR TONE is the secret to a insanely heavy and awesome guitar tone
good tips, the problem is I have done your techniques but when recording the gain loss when in mastering. did we need to record on mono on single track? or stereo. please free to listen my song and comment.
great tutorial but I have a question - I am about to record two guitarists which I usually pan L& R, sounds big but I want bigger, would you recommend double-tracking both guitars - won't that just get messy? - how would you pan them, I'm currently thinking panning hard left and right then the 'doubles' 50% left and right in order to keep the 'sides'?
Personally, I wouldn't double both. What I would do really depends on what they are playing and how different the parts are...these situations usually require some experimentation. I'll usually try and make a decision on which one is actually the rhythm. If one is more of a rhythm and the other is more of a lead (melody lines playing off the rhythm), I'll double the "rhythm" part and pan that left and right and then leave the lead or melody part up the middle.
In the example I played in the video, the original song played live had the rhythm (my part) and the melody line being played over the top (other guitar player). When it came time for the studio, since my part was the "rhythm", we doubled and panned that and then left the lead part as a single track down the middle.
If they are both playing distinctly different parts and you can't really determine one or the other being the rhythm, I would leave them as single tracks and play with the pan to see where it fits best.
Hope this helps a bit...best of luck!
Great video. Should you use the same guitar for each track or should you use a different guitar for them?
Generally, but not always, I will use the same guitar/amps for the doubled rhythm tracks and then use a different guitar/amp for the lead tracks. There's no rules though...experiment and see what sounds best.
@@SwedeStudios okay cool. That wasn't far off from my line of thinking
Really useful tips, thanks man. Just wondering how you'd apply panning to the indie sound of bands like Libertines (e.g. Can't Stand Me Now), or even Pixies, where it's common for the two guitars to be playing different parts simultaneously (sometimes complimentary chords)? Can you still make those sound big with hard panning, or do the parts need to be identical? Or is this really just for metal and heavy rock?
Also where would you pan? Double track both left and right? Single track one hard left and one hard right? Something else?
Or is playing different parts in general just a bad idea? I saw someone suggest hard panning two takes of the same part, and then doing the same again an octave up, but I wasn't sure if that would just cause a chaotic mess?
Hey, I work primarily with rock/metal genres so this is a technique that works well there, but it works well anywhere there is a distinct rhythm guitar. I've worked with, and been in bands where both guitar players were playing different parts. My process for those situations is to see if either of those parts could be considered the "rhythm". Maybe one guy is strumming chords and the other guy is playing a melody line over the top of it. In that instance, I'd treat the strummed part as the rhythm (double and pan) and then treat the other part as a lead and bring it up the middle.
If both guitars are playing similar parts, but occasionally play different chords (maybe one goes low and the other goes high), I would just single track both and pan them out...you essentially get a double tracked feel as long as the two parts are tight.
Other times, if the parts are both distinct and different, I might just leave them as is and pan them out, but not fully...maybe 70%. Depending on the song, doubling isn't always necessary. These situations I tend to feel it out and see what works best for the song.
In the end it always comes down to what works best for your particular situation...experiment and try different things. Maybe certain parts of the song end up double tracked and others don't. Never do anything just because "that's what you're supposed to do"...do what serves the song best.
@SwedeStudios Awesome explanation, dude, thanks. I'm cautious that treating one rhythm guitar as 'lead' and putting it up the middle might mask vocals or vice versa when they're both playing, but I guess that 70% option is still there for those situations.
Wokring my way through YT to help with better undertanding how to record at home etc.
With the tracks i assume i can arm and record centre on esch separately then slam L/R?
Yeah, if you're recording in mono (which guitar tracks generally should), record first, then pan in the mix
Were those guitars recorded with the same amp or were there variances?
in this instance, it was the same amp/settings, but different guitars. Some people like to change it up and use different guitars and amps, and you absolutely can, but I've found that even using the same guitar and amp, it still works. The biggest factor is making sure the two tracks are as tight as possible.
So I've been recording and just kinda messing up n learning from it as I've gone and watching videos like this. My recent issue is when I'm recording it in mono should I be recording it already panned and record it centered and leave the panning for after? I ask this because I'm finding that after I have it recorded I panning it and it's volume essentially disappears. I'm using neural plugins and a focusrite interface
I record first, then pan...recording both tracks and listening up the middle makes it easy to hear if things are tight. Panning by nature does decrease volume SLIGHTLY, so you may need to adjust levels afterward, but it shouldn't be a HUGE difference.
What do you do when you have 2 guitar players that share the rhythm role but play different riffs like a harmonizing part.. also same kinda question when you have 2 guitar players in a band do you track them both and just hard pan them left and right ? cause i feel like they would collide and clash with one another trying to fill in the same spot in the mix . i ask cause my band and i are track everything on our own but send out to some one to mix and master.
Stuff like that I really have to listen to see how different the parts are. If the parts are mostly similar but maybe one guy plays a part low and the other guy goes higher, I might treat it as a double and do just one take of each guy and pan them out. If they are very different it might be a different approach. If one is more of a rhythm and the other is just playing a melody that goes along with it, I might double the more chunky "rhythm" part and then treat the 2nd guitar as a lead and have it more up the middle.
Again, those types of situations I play it by ear. I used to be in a band that had that kind of dynamic...me and the other guy played different parts all the time so when it came to recording, we had to see what sounded best for that song.
@@SwedeStudios awesome and tha ks for the reply !!
I record one part on neck pickup, another on bridge pickup, or I change the guitar. I use different amp simulations on them. When it comes to panning, my mixes are mostly LCR, with some percussion and fx in between.
When it comes to acoustic guitars, doubling with a different pick, or another guitar, but in Nashville tuning, or capo higher on the neck can yield interesting result.
I'll sometimes use a different guitar for leads, but I generally keep the same guitar/amp for the rhythms (occasional exceptions).
I'm mainly LCR as well...I do pan drums in between, but everything else (again, some rare exceptions) is LCR.
What is LCR? @@SwedeStudios
@@diegoatallah1 LCR is the acronym for Left Center Right. The acronym comes from the method of panning everything either full left, full right, or center. While I don't follow 100% LCR in my mixes, they are MOSTLY LCR, but there are a few elements that I will pan in between.
When you pan is always 100 L or R? I do some healthy 80% on both sides to create that realistic feeling of watching 2 guys playing one both sides of the room, if one gets muted my ear on the other side will still pick up some sound, but I guess that depends on the taste. Thank you for clearing my doubt on the acronym!@@SwedeStudios
I use a dual mono amp setup. One left, one right. Record one track, sounds like 2. Sometimes if it needs it ill record another layer and blend it with the others for a more full sound but usually one is all you need.
Another way of doing this is take a Tech 21 DI, or something like an IR2 Pod etc, and run it direct as the "B" signal.
Billy Gibbons has been doing this since Fandango. The original way was a box of coiled 1" rubber hose with one end on the speaker, the other mic'd.
The almost imperceptible short delay of DI vs the mic's longer signal path makes for fat, wide tracks. Using dissimilar amps/models adds even more girth.
However, double tracking *can* be painless, if you think about it as a "second guitar player" vs autistically trying to copy yourself ala Terry Date.
Even Dimebag got frustrated with it, so much so he almost chucked his iconic Dean across the studio!
Are you double tracking your left tracks AND double tracking your right tracks, or do you have two takes total and the L and R are copies of each other?
In general, I'm working with 2 takes total for the rhythm. Not copied like copy and paste, but actually record the same part twice. One gets panned left and the other panned right.
@@SwedeStudios got it, thanks!
How do you pan individual drums in a mix? Like the snare, kick, high hat…etc?
It depends on how many mics are being used. If all the drums are individually close mic'd I will put the kick and snare up the middle and the rest of the kit I pan "drummer's perspective" (as if I'm sitting behind the kit). Hats to the left...toms moving from left to right. The amount of pan depends on how many pieces there are...just spread them out as if you are sitting on the throne behind the kit. Same with overheads/cymbal mics.
I sometimes automate a single guitar during a intro or something to 50% or something to have a little of it in the other channel but then pan it out 100% when the second guitar comes in.
Another option is to automate a reverb or room mic on the other side and keep the 100% and then when the other guitar comes in, reduce or eliminate the revebr/room mic
Absolutely. There's always exceptions where I'll do something a little different like that when a specific section of the song calls for it, but 99% of the time I'm hard panned on the rhythms.
Hello guys ! Just a question : When you have rhythm guitar and also a melodic guitar at the same time you double track rhythm guitar and one hard left panned and the other one hard rght panned.
But what di I need to do if there's a melodic double track guitar at the same time ? (it's the case for most of my metal song)
Do you pan it left 70% and right 70% or 50% left 50% right...? I know that these 2 different guitar part don't supposed to be hard panned the same ! Please help ! THANKS !
So, the rhythm I would double track and hard pan left and right. If the other guitar is just playing a melody line (single notes with no chords), I wouldn't double it, I would treat it like a solo and just keep it a single track right up the middle. Now if its a melody AND a harmony with it, I would pan those 2 tracks out a bit, but not 100%...maybe 50-70. Those types of situations you just have to just try different settings and see where it sits best.
Thanks my Friend ! I'm gonna try this ! Take Care ! 🔥
wats ideal db volume for electric guitar via an audio interface?
I don't really focus on a specific db level...shoot for a good strong signal that isn't clipping the input. As long as you aren't clipping or super quiet you should be fine.
The only thing I might add is sometimes rock guitars should be panned anywhere from 75%-100% depending on the mix, not necessarily hard panned every time
I disagree...to an extent. For rock/metal stuff, my doubled main rhythm tracks are always hard panned. I generally leave guitar solos up the middle since there usually aren't any vocals to compete with during the solo. The only guitars I ever pan partway (70-80 range) are lead guitar parts like melody lines, harmonies, etc. that are adding to the main rhythm...that stuff usually sits well off to the the sides, but not all the way.
That being said...there's no "right" or "wrong" way to mix as long as you are getting the sound you are looking for...this is what works for me to get the sounds I want. Your method may differ, but as long as you are getting the result you want, it's all good.
20 or so years ago when I was in school for broadcast radio and we were going over production, my teacher dropped the often used line "You can polish a turd as much as you want, it'll still be a turd. Maybe an acceptable looking turd, but still a turd." Digital recording takes cost nothing. Press delete and do it again if it has a flaw you think you can't live with. But, also, perfection kills creativity, too. Sometimes, you have to just give it your best then Embrace the Suck.
100%. Always get it right at the source...if that bend was a bit to sharp or flat, do it again. If it's not tight enough, do it again. If its a noticeable mistake...DO IT AGAIN!!!
666 subs gooo
What if two double tracked (not copypasted) guitars sound great in stereo and weak in mono?
Honestly, as bad as it may sound, I don't really care what it sounds like in mono...most people these days aren't listening in mono, and if they are, the speaker probably sucks anyway. I'm not going to change something that sounds good just so it will sound "better" on a crappy speaker. Some people swear by checking their mixes in mono, but it's just not something I worry about.
@@SwedeStudios thanks for responding! I guess this mono-puzzle is applied mostly to Bluetooth speakers listeners, but when I listen to top level mixes (and masters) through such speaker guitars also sound great. Of course vocals, drums, bass, maybe solo guitar are on first place, but rhythm guitars are also present at reasonable volume and frequencies.
Now, play your song in mono and see what happens to those mono guitar signals that are hard panned. Choosing and positioning the effects on the guitars play more significant role on the final sound. In this genre of music hard panning guitars may be beneficial as the whole thing is a mess but in other styles I would never hard pan double tracked guitars.
I'm specifically talking about heavy music here (hard rock/metal) as that is what I primarily do, but I've used this technique on various genres. I'm also not saying you should JUST hard pan and do nothing else...this wasn't a full mix tutorial...just a tip. My guitars do have sends going out to different effects so a bit of that left guitar is in the right and vice versa...
As for mono...I honestly don't care what it sounds like in mono because, who listens to music in mono these days? Just my $0.02
2 ARE BETTER - AND 3 AND 4 EVEN MORE IF YOUR ON AN SSL-NEVE-API -- CONSOLE RE: HEAD ROOM
I occasionally do a second set of doubles if I really want to thicken up a big chorus or something, but I find most of the time, 2 works just fine.
Funny enough I record both guitar tracks center pan, I aim to get that tight recording. If I hear a chorus-like sound when recording, I know my playing is somewhat tight.