It appears that the newly marketed ‘sustainable’ products are not living up to the performance standards of their less eco-friendly predecessors. Despite this, major brands continue to promote these new items through effective marketing. As consumers, we’re left with the choice of accepting or rejecting these products. Personally, I prefer the reliability of the tried-and-tested old Gore-Tex with proper durable water repellency (DWR) over the easily worn-out new alternatives.
Thanks for the update! Excellent! My GoreTex story goes back to acquiring my first ‘Mac’ in 1978! Never looked back on buying and using GoreTex gear! With purchasing quality and functional outdoor clothing and equipment - always remember the old adage .… ‘Buy cheap, pay twice!’.
Gore did nothing until governments forced them to. Also show Independent Peer reviewed Scientific Studies that Gore ePE is superior. Also the DWR issue is the same for all manufacturers using the C6 standard. You sound like a advertisment for Gore, Not an Independent reviewer.
hogwash. there is currently no government regulation in the world limiting pfas in textiles. gore like every other company is simply moving with consumer demand and blackmail from terrorists over at greenpeace. C6 isn't a standard. C6 refers to a short-chain PFC like PFHxA.
Great explanation. Appreciate the insight. Face fabric and DWR coating is where the industry need to focus. Use in footwear seems like the biggest challenge. Seasons greetings.
“Free of PFC”….(that ‘Gore’ considers of environmental concern). On the plus side, because Gore owned the patent for ePTFE there was only one major producer of PFAS (forever chemicals). On the plus side, your videography is great and you do sound like a very professional Gore Salesman. I’m confident Goretek will continue sponsorship of your channel!
@@bimfred agree! I’d be interested to know if regulators agree with Gore own findings? I’m researching to find some ‘safe’ waterproof clothes. Have gone old school; bees wax. Just got to hope their pollen was DDT free! Cheers Rich ;o )
I was always very surprised at how poorly gore-Tex performed in light conditions. For example I was walking across a city, not particularly quickly or up any gradients, in moderate rain, for 45 mins. The exterior became ‘wet out’ in areas like the hood and shoulders. The inside of the jacket was completely wet as it couldn’t release moisture from my skin well enough. So the net result was that I was wet inside. This is from a £350 Arc’teryx beta with gore Tex. If the gore-Tex isn’t providing a breathable membrane then what’s it doing?
If your Beta wetted out after 45mins in light conditions, then you haven't looked after it properly! It certainly sounds like it needs a wash and reproof 🤷
@@xxruss1 I’ve given it a wash and nikwax reproof before use. To be fair it wasn’t light conditions, that was a mistake. It was moderate rain. When you reproof the jackets, yes they perform immediately but after minimal use they wet out in the high wear areas.
It’s just the fabric that is “wetting out” Beta is a lightweight jacket the fabric they combine with the gore does get wet in areas but the gore is functioning fine. If you got wet inside from sweat you were dressed too warm. Also remember you have pit zips
Shakedry is a great fabric, still with it's limitations, especially durability. But they're moving away from it in the same efforts to reduce their use of PFCs. Gore are always working on new products so who knows what they'll bring to market next.
Shake dry its really poor durability for the price .a jacket that survive less than two seassons dint deserve Keep in the market . The worst buy y made in technical gear for biking
not entirely. Gore still sells gore-tex shakedry through its Gorewear brand for cyclign and running. Gore doesn't market for hiking, skiing, and such because of durability concerns, even though it was originally marketed for hiking too. Up until last year, Montbell and Katmandu still offered rain jackets in gore-tex shakedry, but now I've only seen Gorewear exclusively. I believe Norrona is the only company which still uses Gore-tex shakedry for alpine use, but it's in hybrid form on the Lyngen Gore-tex Active jacket. Gore-tex Active shakedry around the torso where you need greater breathability but gore-tex active w/30D face fabric on high wear areas (e.g. shoulders, sleeves, and hood).
After spending thousands on gore tex I can assure that gore tx jackets are nice for either walking the dog or expeditions in very cold climate where you sweat very little. In all other situations it's a better idea to save your money for sth cheaper or buy a truly breathable membrane that if course is going to be less waterproof
Does anyone actually like gore tex for hiking? It's great for the city and standing around but when you're hiking the breathability is so poor, the pit zips help but it's not enough. I have a new Patagonia Triolet that has this latest gore tex, it's still the same. I am looking at paramo and keela, these are supposed to be better for hiking.
It's always a last resort for me when it's pelting it down otherwise i wear a Marmot Ether Driclime jacket or Montane Krypton using classic Pertex outer (not the inferior new one) for all weather hiking. Both are lighter, better cut versions of Paramo/Buffalo.
They did that for me. I had Asolo Neutron GTX boots that started leaking after a year of light hiking use. It was a minor leak on the tongue of one boot. Asolo doesn't honor warranty for the shop where I got the boots so I just went to Gore. I've sent them photo proofs of the leak, shipped the boots back and they refunded my purchase 😀
Every Goretex shell garment that I have owned has leaked badly once the DWR has worn/failed. This included some high end Berghaus kit that let me down badly on the Cairngorm plateau. I've been a convert to Paramo since 2007 and haven't had a single problem yet.
I returned a pair of AKU Boots that I got from Trekitt. They were out of Aku warranty, very little use but started leaking. Goretex customer service was great, quick turn around, Full refund of what I paid! I’m sticking with Goretex…but not sure on the new E-Tex just yet 🙂
This stuff is getting absolutely wrecked by everyday people reviews. Arcteryx I am pretty sure decided to rename the Beta Light Weight to BETA SL just so they could get rid of the 2 star average on their site for that jacket.
I was hoping that will be something new, but it's the same old same old. It will always be in the washing machine getting re-waxed because that's what we're talking about. Absolute rubbish
You don't "reproof" Goretex, no such thing. You can reapply DWR, but all DWR does is allow water to bead off the surface. This is a sacrificial chemical layer (think wax on a car) that allows the Goretex to breathe better for longer by preventing the outer fabric from wetting out quickly. If a Goretex jacket leaks it means it's either at the end of its life, damaged (either through use or lack of proper care) or it's faulty.
It appears that the newly marketed ‘sustainable’ products are not living up to the performance standards of their less eco-friendly predecessors. Despite this, major brands continue to promote these new items through effective marketing. As consumers, we’re left with the choice of accepting or rejecting these products. Personally, I prefer the reliability of the tried-and-tested old Gore-Tex with proper durable water repellency (DWR) over the easily worn-out new alternatives.
Thanks for the update! Excellent!
My GoreTex story goes back to acquiring my first ‘Mac’ in 1978! Never looked back on buying and using GoreTex gear! With purchasing quality and functional outdoor clothing and equipment - always remember the old adage .… ‘Buy cheap, pay twice!’.
Gore did nothing until governments forced them to. Also show Independent Peer reviewed Scientific Studies that Gore ePE is superior. Also the DWR issue is the same for all manufacturers using the C6 standard. You sound like a advertisment for Gore, Not an Independent reviewer.
hogwash. there is currently no government regulation in the world limiting pfas in textiles. gore like every other company is simply moving with consumer demand and blackmail from terrorists over at greenpeace. C6 isn't a standard. C6 refers to a short-chain PFC like PFHxA.
Great explanation. Appreciate the insight. Face fabric and DWR coating is where the industry need to focus. Use in footwear seems like the biggest challenge. Seasons greetings.
Will be interesting to see how this membrane performes as part of a proper winter mountain shell.
“Free of PFC”….(that ‘Gore’ considers of environmental concern).
On the plus side, because Gore owned the patent for ePTFE there was only one major producer of PFAS (forever chemicals).
On the plus side, your videography is great and you do sound like a very professional Gore Salesman. I’m confident Goretek will continue sponsorship of your channel!
the 'of environmental concern' is their defence to continue using PTFE in some garments.
ePE is free of PFCs
@@bimfred agree! I’d be interested to know if regulators agree with Gore own findings? I’m researching to find some ‘safe’ waterproof clothes. Have gone old school; bees wax. Just got to hope their pollen was DDT free!
Cheers
Rich
;o )
I was always very surprised at how poorly gore-Tex performed in light conditions. For example I was walking across a city, not particularly quickly or up any gradients, in moderate rain, for 45 mins. The exterior became ‘wet out’ in areas like the hood and shoulders. The inside of the jacket was completely wet as it couldn’t release moisture from my skin well enough. So the net result was that I was wet inside. This is from a £350 Arc’teryx beta with gore Tex. If the gore-Tex isn’t providing a breathable membrane then what’s it doing?
If your Beta wetted out after 45mins in light conditions, then you haven't looked after it properly!
It certainly sounds like it needs a wash and reproof 🤷
@@xxruss1 I’ve given it a wash and nikwax reproof before use. To be fair it wasn’t light conditions, that was a mistake. It was moderate rain. When you reproof the jackets, yes they perform immediately but after minimal use they wet out in the high wear areas.
Gortex has never let me down like your example. Something wrong there.
It’s just the fabric that is “wetting out” Beta is a lightweight jacket the fabric they combine with the gore does get wet in areas but the gore is functioning fine. If you got wet inside from sweat you were dressed too warm. Also remember you have pit zips
Excellent video. Thank you
So now they take the same step Fjällraven made with it’s Eco-shell waterproof fabric?
Shakedry is still their best waterproof fabric. But they seem to have abandoned that.
Shakedry is a great fabric, still with it's limitations, especially durability. But they're moving away from it in the same efforts to reduce their use of PFCs. Gore are always working on new products so who knows what they'll bring to market next.
Shake dry its really poor durability for the price .a jacket that survive less than two seassons dint deserve Keep in the market . The worst buy y made in technical gear for biking
Columbia Outdry is the one to buy
not entirely. Gore still sells gore-tex shakedry through its Gorewear brand for cyclign and running. Gore doesn't market for hiking, skiing, and such because of durability concerns, even though it was originally marketed for hiking too. Up until last year, Montbell and Katmandu still offered rain jackets in gore-tex shakedry, but now I've only seen Gorewear exclusively. I believe Norrona is the only company which still uses Gore-tex shakedry for alpine use, but it's in hybrid form on the Lyngen Gore-tex Active jacket. Gore-tex Active shakedry around the torso where you need greater breathability but gore-tex active w/30D face fabric on high wear areas (e.g. shoulders, sleeves, and hood).
Columbia have Outdry product , it have membrane on the outside like Shakedry.
basically, their patents expired and they need a 'new' product to market
Interesting theory there JogBird. They've waited a while if that was the case considering the primary ePTFE patent expired in 1997.
This is a good move, thank you for info. I just hope the industry looks to only produce safe DWR costing as well.
After spending thousands on gore tex I can assure that gore tx jackets are nice for either walking the dog or expeditions in very cold climate where you sweat very little.
In all other situations it's a better idea to save your money for sth cheaper or buy a truly breathable membrane that if course is going to be less waterproof
Does anyone actually like gore tex for hiking? It's great for the city and standing around but when you're hiking the breathability is so poor, the pit zips help but it's not enough. I have a new Patagonia Triolet that has this latest gore tex, it's still the same. I am looking at paramo and keela, these are supposed to be better for hiking.
It's always a last resort for me when it's pelting it down otherwise i wear a Marmot Ether Driclime jacket or Montane Krypton using classic Pertex outer (not the inferior new one) for all weather hiking. Both are lighter, better cut versions of Paramo/Buffalo.
@@Ivan-oh6ug thanks for the info. A weather resistant softshell and a poncho is another solution that I've seen people talking about.
Paramo does work but the material gets damp/wet so no use for multiday when you cant dry out.
in term of performance how is the gore tex epe compare to gore tex pro?
ePE is more in line with Gore-Tex Performance, Gore are keeping Pro at the top of their product tree for the time being.
Has anybody ever been refunded on a Gore-Tex product that leaked…it would be interesting to hear as I’ve never heard of said promise..
They did that for me. I had Asolo Neutron GTX boots that started leaking after a year of light hiking use. It was a minor leak on the tongue of one boot. Asolo doesn't honor warranty for the shop where I got the boots so I just went to Gore. I've sent them photo proofs of the leak, shipped the boots back and they refunded my purchase 😀
Every Goretex shell garment that I have owned has leaked badly once the DWR has worn/failed. This included some high end Berghaus kit that let me down badly on the Cairngorm plateau. I've been a convert to Paramo since 2007 and haven't had a single problem yet.
I returned a pair of AKU Boots that I got from Trekitt. They were out of Aku warranty, very little use but started leaking. Goretex customer service was great, quick turn around, Full refund of what I paid! I’m sticking with Goretex…but not sure on the new E-Tex just yet 🙂
This stuff is getting absolutely wrecked by everyday people reviews. Arcteryx I am pretty sure decided to rename the Beta Light Weight to BETA SL just so they could get rid of the 2 star average on their site for that jacket.
Finally caught up with Fjallraven!
The new stuff will not be as good for sure.
My gortex pro jacket doesn't keep me dry. Can I get a refund. Lol
I was hoping that will be something new, but it's the same old same old. It will always be in the washing machine getting re-waxed because that's what we're talking about. Absolute rubbish
Yeah, it will cost you $10 every time you want to wear it.
Keela is better; it doesn't need to be reproofed like goretex.
You don't "reproof" Goretex, no such thing. You can reapply DWR, but all DWR does is allow water to bead off the surface. This is a sacrificial chemical layer (think wax on a car) that allows the Goretex to breathe better for longer by preventing the outer fabric from wetting out quickly. If a Goretex jacket leaks it means it's either at the end of its life, damaged (either through use or lack of proper care) or it's faulty.
what do you mean? Keela specifically lists garment care with "Why Do I need to reproof".