The Golden Ratio (why it is so irrational) - Numberphile

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  • čas přidán 7. 05. 2018
  • Catch a more in-depth interview with Ben Sparks on our Numberphile Podcast: • The Happy Twin (with B...
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Komentáře • 3,4K

  • @ahobimo732
    @ahobimo732 Před 4 lety +4102

    The idea that numbers can be "more" or "less" irrational kind of blew my mind.

    • @USER-G291
      @USER-G291 Před 4 lety +31

      Mark O did you go to school marko

    • @TempestGotThatTrash
      @TempestGotThatTrash Před 4 lety +79

      Imchattingabsolutefuckingshit username checks out

    • @ahobimo732
      @ahobimo732 Před 4 lety +180

      @pyropulse You seem upset. You wanna talk about that?

    • @gretsyuk1387
      @gretsyuk1387 Před 4 lety +85

      pyropulse pretty rude for no reason

    • @kakonya2994
      @kakonya2994 Před 4 lety +62

      pyropulse I mean I found it interesting that this could be a way to visualize how closely can an irrational number be approximated by smaller numbers, and I think using the language he used to explain - “more or less irrational” is an easy way to express my thoughts in this context

  • @soranuareane
    @soranuareane Před 6 lety +3916

    π = 3 + a bit.
    Going to use this in all of my code from now on.

    • @acorn1014
      @acorn1014 Před 6 lety +272

      π = 3;
      π += a bit;

    • @DarkwingD
      @DarkwingD Před 6 lety +146

      private double aBit = Math.random();
      private double giveOrTake = Math.random();
      if (giveOrTake > aBit) { aBit += giveOrTake; }
      if (giveOrTake < aBit) { aBit -= giveOrTake; }
      private final static double PI = 3 + aBit;

    • @anselmschueler
      @anselmschueler Před 6 lety +61

      pi = pi + bit

    • @PhilerinoBTW
      @PhilerinoBTW Před 6 lety +58

      > 'in my code'
      > has MissingNo as a profile pic
      I love you :^)

    • @KauanRMKlein
      @KauanRMKlein Před 6 lety +12

      so π will be either 6 or 7 depending on the value of that bit :P

  • @DhulstDirk
    @DhulstDirk Před 4 lety +1176

    This is the absolute best explanation of the Golden Ratio I have ever seen. Thank you!

    • @ethann6573
      @ethann6573 Před 3 lety +9

      For me it was the sound dinosaurs that did it.

    • @RaineriHakkarainen
      @RaineriHakkarainen Před 2 lety +3

      The golden ratio is 1,618

    • @p0tatobiden250
      @p0tatobiden250 Před rokem

      Establishment is training Al to learn from revised/censored reality of mediiaa and internet (mostly peaceful 👍), manufactured by NewNormal agenda. Starting the systemic use of Al with special interest focus is pure corruption at the root,. thanks Sillyc0nVally

    • @justArandomfellar
      @justArandomfellar Před 11 měsíci

      Nature is so precise. And yet many people still call themselves "atheists".

    • @PC_Simo
      @PC_Simo Před 11 měsíci +3

      @@RaineriHakkarainenApproximately. It’s really 1,618…. Since it’s irrational (as indicated by its infinite continued fraction and its precise formula:
      (1 + sqrt(5))/2 (which is just sqrt(5) with some rational tweaks); as 5 is not a square number, its square root has to be irrational), and a bunch of other things, I’m sure), it has an infinite, non-periodic decimal expansion. 1,618 is a rational number that can be expressed as a precise fraction: 809/500.

  • @allison5169
    @allison5169 Před 4 lety +845

    "I'll be there in a bit" = "I'll be there in a pi minus 3"

  • @blacxthornE
    @blacxthornE Před 6 lety +4581

    This was one of the best Numberphile videos ever.

    • @math.mouraa
      @math.mouraa Před 6 lety +31

      Ersen Couldn't agree more

    • @MrPacoHamers
      @MrPacoHamers Před 6 lety +152

      I never liked the golden ratio because the way I learned it was:
      1. greek dude came up with a series
      2. divide 2 following numbers in it
      3. WOW! flowers grow this way
      4. the end
      This was a very unsatisfying explanation, because the whole 'WHY?!?' was missing.
      Thanks for giving me some love for the golden ratio.

    • @limbridk
      @limbridk Před 6 lety +32

      I agree. This one is up there as a top candidate for the best one ever. (And I have of course seen every single one, as we all have. Surely.)

    • @ultimateman1234
      @ultimateman1234 Před 6 lety +11

      I was going to post the same thing. But I knew someone else already must have. So I found your comment, liked it, and...

    • @wierdalien1
      @wierdalien1 Před 6 lety +6

      asd i mean he looks like a judge who dropped his wig in the mud

  • @huruey
    @huruey Před 5 lety +1944

    That "bad flower" with no rotation is just a legume.

    • @SCWood
      @SCWood Před 5 lety +105

      It uses the least irrational number: 1

    • @worldisfilledb
      @worldisfilledb Před 5 lety +11

      S.C. Wood why isn’t 0 the least irrational number?

    • @Good_Hot_Chocolate
      @Good_Hot_Chocolate Před 5 lety +74

      @@worldisfilledb how is nothing less irrational than something?

    • @rohancrawley4131
      @rohancrawley4131 Před 5 lety +22

      @@Good_Hot_Chocolate Why should there be something

    • @nomadical95
      @nomadical95 Před 5 lety +10

      @Dirty Sack it does noth exist

  • @yeet3673
    @yeet3673 Před rokem +161

    This is perhaps in the absolute TOP3 episodes of numberphile... everything is so great, I've watched it at least 4 times now over the past couple of years since I got into the channel. The content is fascinating, I love this dude, the animations and the music is soooo freaking perfect - even the little snaps when it pauses for a sec' ... just a wonderful peice of art created here

    • @eugene7518
      @eugene7518 Před 4 dny

      Why do they call it the golden ratio?

  • @steve1978ger
    @steve1978ger Před 4 lety +1733

    "A BIT is not a mathematical recognized terminology" -
    CS major: sweats profusely

    • @progect3548
      @progect3548 Před 3 lety +2

      @Arbnora Vezaj Elsi

    • @ekananda9591
      @ekananda9591 Před 3 lety +5

      Lol

    • @ryanolsen294
      @ryanolsen294 Před 3 lety +44

      CS major?
      Counter strike major?

    • @Padeir0
      @Padeir0 Před 3 lety +76

      @@ryanolsen294 Obviosly not. It's Coconut Science major.

    • @shmillsyshmillsy6624
      @shmillsyshmillsy6624 Před 2 lety +32

      @@Padeir0 at my school it's called ECS (Engineering in Coconut Science of course)

  • @LMacNeill
    @LMacNeill Před 6 lety +773

    That was mind-blowing, watching that animation run. You could see the whole-number fractions passing as the animation proceeded. It's almost like watching some part of the universe that you can't normally see, but which was somehow exposed by this video. A bit unsettling, yet completely fascinating. I can't quite describe it.

    • @numberphile
      @numberphile  Před 6 lety +74

      Great. Glad you (sort of) liked it.

    • @abdiazizissa5706
      @abdiazizissa5706 Před 6 lety +2

      .

    • @PhilBoswell
      @PhilBoswell Před 6 lety +9

      Is the code for the animation, or anything like it, available anywhere…maybe on GitHub?

    • @a_diamond
      @a_diamond Před 5 lety +2

      AGREED! (and yes, that required caps.. lol)

    • @codemiesterbeats
      @codemiesterbeats Před 5 lety +3

      yea but to me math is like super complicated but at the end of the day it seems to me its just like a never ending mandelbrot set. it seems we have came up with infinite amounts of knowledge to describe something we should have already known all along lol idk man im having one of those "bruh i just figured out how the universe works" moments.

  • @fraiseld2183
    @fraiseld2183 Před 5 lety +880

    Instructions Unclear. Accidentally produced an infinite spin.

  • @staculette1919
    @staculette1919 Před 4 lety +46

    "Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king." *Boromir*
    "Rule of Gondor is mine !" *Denethor*
    "So passes Denethor, son of Ecthelion..." *Gandalf*
    1:59 "So if I jumped, say, to a tenth of a turn, would you care to predict what you would see ?" *Denethor*

  • @ultragamer4465
    @ultragamer4465 Před 4 lety +358

    *IF YOUR HEART WAVERS, DO NOT SHOOT*

  • @meghanstrudwick4100
    @meghanstrudwick4100 Před 4 lety +337

    "Flowers can cancel fractions"
    - Ben Sparks, 2018

  • @GuerreroMisterioso95
    @GuerreroMisterioso95 Před 5 lety +1760

    Believe in the rotation, Johnny.

    • @Skullman367
      @Skullman367 Před 5 lety +118

      The Masked Man The spin is the power of infinity!!

    • @sarabeatriz5569
      @sarabeatriz5569 Před 5 lety +80

      GYROOOOOOO

    • @calamari2875
      @calamari2875 Před 5 lety +87

      arigato, gyro

    • @franciscopetrucci
      @franciscopetrucci Před 4 lety +59

      Is... Is this?!
      Could it be?
      Is this a Jojo's reference?!

    • @superiorf
      @superiorf Před 4 lety +52

      I opened this video only to see if there was a JoJo reference in it, thank you

  • @gosugosu1280
    @gosugosu1280 Před 4 lety +63

    6:10 also, if you count the number of seeds on one of the 3 spirals starting at the center, then the 7th seed will always line up with one of the 22 spokes - and 22/7 is approximately pi, amazing!

  • @hollyhensler5589
    @hollyhensler5589 Před 4 lety +41

    I have spent years of academia studying the golden ratio and yet this is the best and clearest explanation I have ever seen on its irrationality! Incredible!

  • @Joel-co3xl
    @Joel-co3xl Před 6 lety +627

    Hadn't heard of the golden ratio being the "most irrational" number before, that's pretty cool.

    • @alpo789
      @alpo789 Před 6 lety +31

      Spectrally Mathologer did a video on this once. I think it was even titled "the most irrational number"

    • @E1craZ4life
      @E1craZ4life Před 6 lety +7

      An unpublished interview with Steve Mould had him mentioning the Golden Ratio as the most irrational number.

    • @vitakyo982
      @vitakyo982 Před 6 lety +11

      It doesn't make lot of sense , if (1+sqr(5))/2 is the most irrational number , multiplying this number by 2 & substracting 1 shouldn't drasticly change it's properties , does it mean sqr(5) is extremely irrational ?

    • @alexpotts6520
      @alexpotts6520 Před 6 lety +26

      Sqrt(5) has the continued fraction 2+1/(4+1/(4+1/(4+1/(4+...
      It's a similar beast in that it has a continuing fraction that repeats the same number over and over again. You can prove it in a similar way to the way he proved the all-1's continued fraction equals phi.

    • @grex2595
      @grex2595 Před 6 lety +10

      sqrt(5) = 2+1/(4+1/(4+1/(4+...), so according to this video, it would be more rational than sqrt(2) and sqrt(7). It has to do with proximity to a perfect square. sqrt(2) = 1+1/(2..., and sqrt(5) = 2+1/(4..., and sqrt(10) = 3+1/(6... If you look at the numbers, you get sqrt(1+x^2) = 1+1/(2x..., which means that when you take the square root of a number, the closer that number is to a perfect square, the more rational it will be (according to this video).

  • @hliask903
    @hliask903 Před 6 lety +581

    Glad to see that the steward of Gondor is alive and well!

  • @quakeroats2007
    @quakeroats2007 Před 3 lety +60

    Johnny you've gotta watch this Numberphile video to learn the power of the spin, Trust me Johnny

  • @aysoodaagh3167
    @aysoodaagh3167 Před 3 lety +91

    This was BEAUTIFUL! You made me fall in love with mathematics. I come and see this video every once in a while to keep being motivated to learn.

    • @fibonaccisequins4637
      @fibonaccisequins4637 Před 2 lety +4

      What a wholesome comment. I’m going back to school soon and I’m going to remember this to motivate myself.

  • @liborkundrat185
    @liborkundrat185 Před 6 lety +800

    We need an hour long animation of the flower at the end.

    • @bgoggin88
      @bgoggin88 Před 6 lety +6

      Libor Kundrát yes.

    • @celinak5062
      @celinak5062 Před 6 lety

      Libor Kundrát same

    • @MamboBean343
      @MamboBean343 Před 6 lety +11

      slower, or looping?

    • @liborkundrat185
      @liborkundrat185 Před 6 lety +21

      MamboBean
      Slower. Imagine it spinning slowly with a hypnotyzing music as it crosses the milestones. (the larger fractions, the golden ratio, etc.)
      Looping wouldn't really have much meaning.

    • @retepaskab
      @retepaskab Před 6 lety +9

      Make it 10 hours.

  • @yamomwasthebomb7159
    @yamomwasthebomb7159 Před 6 lety +143

    I have heard nearly everything in here before, but I've never seen such a succinct, logical explanation for all of it. This was freaking amazing.

    • @simonshugar1651
      @simonshugar1651 Před 6 lety +3

      r/iamverysmart

    • @iMutt-yy6vf
      @iMutt-yy6vf Před 5 lety +1

      I'd never actually seen the derivation of (1 +- sqrt5 ) / 2 before. This was very helpful!

    • @gguioa
      @gguioa Před 5 lety +2

      Well he didn't said he understood everything @@simonshugar1651

    • @SSM24_
      @SSM24_ Před 5 lety +1

      Same. I knew about most of the properties of the golden ratio that were shown here, but I was never quite able to put together _why_ it was the case. When he went from the continued fraction representation straight to "x = 1 + 1/x" it just blew my mind.

  • @DouglasButner
    @DouglasButner Před 4 lety +94

    Nature: *Exists*
    Mathematicians: _That's Irrational_

    • @jhomastefferson3693
      @jhomastefferson3693 Před 2 lety +10

      Irrational in math means something else compared to irrational in reality. Rational typically means "in accordance with logic." In that sense it's latin root. Irrational in that sense means not according to logic. However, that is not the etymological root of mathematical rational and irrational. The english started using ratio, which has the same root at rational, to refer to a relationship(by division) between two numbers. Rational in that sense means able to be described in a ratio and irrational simply means unable to be described in a ratio, not that the number is illogical - since numbers kind of can't be illogical because of how they're defined.

    • @DouglasButner
      @DouglasButner Před 2 lety +1

      @@jhomastefferson3693 thanks for explaining

    • @DouglasButner
      @DouglasButner Před 2 lety +1

      @@jhomastefferson3693 but you forgot to sat ratios of integers or other rational numbers. All are a ratio

  • @Fun_maths
    @Fun_maths Před 3 lety +26

    I love how he just mentioned "you can count the spokes and if you do you get fibonacci numbers"

  • @dalitas
    @dalitas Před 6 lety +578

    All of differential calculus is based on "and a bit", It is perfectly ok to use, it just sounds better with Δ, δ, ε

  • @jakeroosenbloom
    @jakeroosenbloom Před 6 lety +960

    Best Numberphile video in a while

    • @thesmallestatom
      @thesmallestatom Před 6 lety +3

      Easily.

    • @ultimateman1234
      @ultimateman1234 Před 6 lety +6

      Absolutely brilliant.

    • @DBFIU
      @DBFIU Před 6 lety +5

      Agreed

    • @TheBelrick
      @TheBelrick Před 5 lety +2

      Denethor is that you?

    • @cuter.
      @cuter. Před 5 lety

      What would You think are the other best videos on this channel? Or better, what are, in your opinion, the best videos from Numberphile, Computerphile and other science-related channels?
      I would even go as far as asking what are the best videos You've ever seen on CZcams?

  • @contessawillis
    @contessawillis Před rokem +14

    I have no idea how I came across this video nor have I the slightest clue of anything that was just explained, but, I watched all 15:12 in complete wonderment.

    • @marshallpartington
      @marshallpartington Před rokem +1

      Wonderment lies in the question more than the answer, doesn’t it?

  • @coloradolove7957
    @coloradolove7957 Před rokem +5

    Flowers canceling fractions is the coolest sentence I've heard today.

  • @KimAlexisG
    @KimAlexisG Před 5 lety +189

    Wow!!! I already thought I knew a lot about the golden ratio, but I've never thought of one irrational number as being "more irrational than another". The way they calculated phi from that infinite fraction is something I've never seen before and it was absolutely awesome!

    • @TimpBizkit
      @TimpBizkit Před 9 měsíci +1

      It's a different metric but I thought of transcendental numbers as the most irrational but things like "e" and pi are close to 3 so will make curly spokes if you try to use 1/e or 1/pi to space seeds.

  • @flyingchineseman6901
    @flyingchineseman6901 Před 5 lety +455

    Johnny, you must spin your nail based in the shape of the golden rectangle!

  • @christophercaron3042
    @christophercaron3042 Před 3 lety +20

    "The words a bit are not mathematically recognized terminology"
    Computer scientists: :/

  • @TheTimelyTurtle
    @TheTimelyTurtle Před 3 lety +38

    I love how when at 10:48 he mentions Matt Parker, there is a tiny flash of Parker Square in the bottom right corner :-)

  • @MisterAppleEsq
    @MisterAppleEsq Před 6 lety +1578

    That flower animation at the end really creeped me out for some reason.

    • @anybodynoname8767
      @anybodynoname8767 Před 6 lety +108

      Mister Apple You have floweranimationmathsthingphobia?

    • @ctrlaltshift
      @ctrlaltshift Před 6 lety +43

      I want it as my screensaver.

    • @EchoHeo
      @EchoHeo Před 6 lety +52

      Mister Apple
      the way it changes the circles' size is really disturbing

    • @teckyify
      @teckyify Před 6 lety +18

      Sentinels from matrix

    • @jwrm22
      @jwrm22 Před 6 lety +127

      It's more likely the music.

  • @IvanIvan1974
    @IvanIvan1974 Před 6 lety +254

    PI=3+a bit
    I knew it, PI is something between 3 and 4.

  • @nazrael8826
    @nazrael8826 Před 3 lety +18

    _Lesson 4: Pay your respects_

  • @micaelaroyo4837
    @micaelaroyo4837 Před 4 lety +20

    This was so interesting and I really couldn't understand exactly why the golden ratio was so important and this really blew my mind, thank you!

  • @user-wg4hz3bk4f
    @user-wg4hz3bk4f Před 6 lety +391

    So flowers are smarter than me, thanks.

    • @IETCHX69
      @IETCHX69 Před 5 lety +7

      ..."me (period )Thanks capital " T " .

    • @johnnyknight6447
      @johnnyknight6447 Před 4 lety +3

      your "stupidity" is a learned behavior. GL

    • @Kyle-li8wi
      @Kyle-li8wi Před 4 lety

      Selective processes are the way to go!

    • @alveolate
      @alveolate Před 4 lety +16

      flowers had 250 million years of trial and error to get phi.
      you basically understood 250 million years of work in about 15mins.

    • @toatahu2003
      @toatahu2003 Před 4 lety +6

      No, flowers are just like that after billions of years of Evolutionary trial and error. The real question is why is the universe so specifically, logically ordered such that this is the universal best ration of flower petals, among other things...

  • @davidsweeney111
    @davidsweeney111 Před 6 lety +1205

    Some hard thinking has gone into this, I would never have thought of this!

    • @ShoM1nam1moto
      @ShoM1nam1moto Před 6 lety +12

      They actually taught us exactly this in uni at a number theory course

    • @Luftbubblan
      @Luftbubblan Před 6 lety +11

      Quite different to be taught something compared to be the one that figured it out. Uff, one part of me wants to study again since i never got much education. Now at older age knowledge interest me more :D

    • @andrewkelley7062
      @andrewkelley7062 Před 6 lety +1

      Mine was actually pretty easy it was simply a matter of all actions being compressed into a series of yes no and i do not know from there you simply compress the possible repetitive calculations down to a reasonable form like holographic in a particular way then no matter what question you have as long as the answer is yes or no you have a direct path from question and answer in the fractal patterns of that holographic that eventually themselves repeat and the world becomes yours. Took me less than a day to figure out and usually just takes a few seconds on paper.

    • @galesx95
      @galesx95 Před 6 lety +1

      Andrew Kelley what exactly have you find out?
      and how again the world becomes yours?

    • @andrewkelley7062
      @andrewkelley7062 Před 6 lety

      just do the equation I have in my post

  • @ryanrichardson1169
    @ryanrichardson1169 Před 2 lety +5

    Compelled to come here because of Steve Mould’s 1 million subscriber video. Great content.

  • @somerandomdudeontheinterne6520

    Petition to change its name to the golden irratio

  • @gregs_on_tracks
    @gregs_on_tracks Před 5 lety +502

    The best Acid trip I ever had on youtube.

    • @momo-dm3rw
      @momo-dm3rw Před 5 lety +3

      I believe you.

    • @AbhinavTallapally
      @AbhinavTallapally Před 5 lety +4

      did anyone ever make a video of the animation with that music yet?

    • @PanduPoluan
      @PanduPoluan Před 5 lety +9

      Mandelbrot Deep Zoom would like to have a word with you...

    • @Kakerate2
      @Kakerate2 Před 5 lety +6

      i watched this tripping and it was entertaining af

    • @simohayha6031
      @simohayha6031 Před 4 lety

      Do mandelbrot zoom in

  • @KidToyTesters
    @KidToyTesters Před 5 lety +606

    Brilliant video! Captivating from start to finite end. We are off to go measure flowers now.

    • @oscarpritzker6278
      @oscarpritzker6278 Před 3 lety +9

      If there's an end, 100% of the times it will be finite. There is no such thing as "infinite" with an end. I'm still confused about your thought process.

    • @dr.killakill960
      @dr.killakill960 Před 3 lety +6

      @@oscarpritzker6278 did you have high expectations for a kids channel?

    • @doublecircus
      @doublecircus Před 3 lety +1

      @@oscarpritzker6278 i mean... you can technically “complete” an infinite series

    • @oscarpritzker6278
      @oscarpritzker6278 Před 3 lety +1

      @@doublecircus
      No we can't. There's a reason why it's called infinite, but I agree that there's always an end, we just can't calculate it, so it's correct to say that infinite just means immeasurable and not endless.

    • @doublecircus
      @doublecircus Před 3 lety

      @@oscarpritzker6278 I was referring to something like Zeno’s paradox, and probably could find a few other examples

  • @PC_Simo
    @PC_Simo Před 11 měsíci +3

    1:00 Legumes: **Loud, ugly crying.**

  • @user-rd7jv4du1w
    @user-rd7jv4du1w Před 4 lety +245

    The fact that there's JoJo comments on a math video

    • @flux202
      @flux202 Před 4 lety +7

      JoJo?

    • @screamsinrussian5773
      @screamsinrussian5773 Před 4 lety +17

      is disgusting
      Always have to plug in your shitty Annie Mays into something that is not even related to your damn Taiwanese cartoon, don't you

    • @georgeruiz9211
      @georgeruiz9211 Před 4 lety +49

      @@screamsinrussian5773 Its Anime, Its a Japanese art style, most importantly, ITS A JOKE

    • @felixargyle1285
      @felixargyle1285 Před 4 lety +26

      @@screamsinrussian5773 I can your parents were comedians because you sir, are a joke

    • @moonrock8831
      @moonrock8831 Před 4 lety +13

      @[screams in Russian] Anime is Japanese not Taiwanese you racist bonehead

  • @GetMeThere1
    @GetMeThere1 Před 6 lety +155

    Best Numberphile video yet!

    • @cuter.
      @cuter. Před 5 lety +1

      What would You think are the other best videos on this channel? Or better, what are, in your opinion, the best videos from Numberphile, Computerphile and other science-related channels?
      I would even go as far as asking what are the best videos You've ever seen on CZcams?

    • @eugene7518
      @eugene7518 Před 4 dny

      Why do they call it the golden ratio

  • @oggyreidmore
    @oggyreidmore Před 5 lety +1006

    Considering that flowers have had about 250 million years of evolutionary trial and error to progressively find more and more efficient seed packing methods, is it any surprise that eventually they would get to the most perfect method mathematically possible?

    • @General12th
      @General12th Před 5 lety +76

      Not even then, since flowers don't have any sort of "choice" about where they grow seeds anyway. That's all determined by the behavior of the proteins down at the molecular level.

    • @oggyreidmore
      @oggyreidmore Před 5 lety +227

      Exactly. When I said flowers "found" the best solution, I didn't mean consciously. I meant in the sense that a repeating computer algorithm might "find" the best solution to something if it cycles through the problem enough times.

    • @SuperQuwertz
      @SuperQuwertz Před 5 lety +23

      Then every plant should have this structure. But they dont.

    • @brokenwave6125
      @brokenwave6125 Před 5 lety +139

      @@SuperQuwertz not every plant has the same goal...
      Other plants with different goals find other uncannily mathematical sequences.
      Like how leaves grow on a tree for example.

    • @SuperQuwertz
      @SuperQuwertz Před 5 lety +20

      @@brokenwave6125 the goal should be to survive. therefore after millions of years everything should be more or less equal. there is no need to be "beautiful". bees dont care about the perfect geometry of a flower. Or do you think the lotus is repelling dirt and is using perfect geometry in order to survive better?

  • @jordandocherty5132
    @jordandocherty5132 Před 4 lety +43

    This guy is by far the best explainer you have on numberphile

    • @sinbad4696
      @sinbad4696 Před 4 lety +4

      Nah gyro Zeppeli is better

    • @AdelaeR
      @AdelaeR Před 2 lety

      That is your opinion and you should state it as such.
      Other people may have other opinions because liking someone is not easily quantifiable.

  • @diavoloisamasochist4986
    @diavoloisamasochist4986 Před 4 lety +179

    Oh boy! I'm ready to watch a nice video and learn about the golden ratio! I sure do hope there aren't any references to this Japanese cartoon in the comment section!

  • @lindsayhout673
    @lindsayhout673 Před 5 lety +48

    This is, by far, the best explanation about how math helps to explain natural occurences. I am a high school geometry teacher with a degree in secondary mathematics education. I always feel that when I start to talk about Fibonacci numbers, the Golden Ratio, etc, I tend to lose people. Most high schools students, and students beyond high school, really sort of start to glaze over when talking about sequences. I absolutely love this explanation and animation. I feel like anyone could understand it because it's so beautifully done. Also, to be honest, I never thought about the fact that some irrational numbers are more irrational than others. This video was so cool! Thank you!

  • @WannesMalfait
    @WannesMalfait Před 6 lety +343

    Lol the Parker square.

    • @MichaelLikvidator
      @MichaelLikvidator Před 6 lety +9

      Love such easter egg.

    • @wynarator
      @wynarator Před 6 lety +26

      Parker square will never die, love you guys :D

    • @Bellonging
      @Bellonging Před 6 lety +1

      It'll never be let goooo.

    • @TKNinja37
      @TKNinja37 Před 6 lety +4

      Parker Square flash for a frame or two, then suggesting the video for it immediately afterward. You cheeky sorts. 😂

    • @arturzathas499
      @arturzathas499 Před 6 lety +1

      it has become like one of those small fish that lives on the surface of a much bigger fish. chances are the small fish will show it self whilst you are admiring the big fish

  • @joshsvoss
    @joshsvoss Před 4 lety +6

    You guys rock! My favorite numberphile video yet. Ben you’re awesome, I found you through the Mandelbrot set video which I loved!

  • @conordoran8273
    @conordoran8273 Před 6 lety +32

    This guy is a fantastic teacher. He clearly understands what he's talking about. For me, the subject is quite interesting in the first place, but even still he's so clear and concise in his explanations. Great video!

  • @NeoBoneGirl
    @NeoBoneGirl Před 5 lety +197

    The true power of lesson 5...

  • @VivekYadav-ds8oz
    @VivekYadav-ds8oz Před 3 lety +4

    The most clearly explained video on Numberphile. Was following along quite nicely all the way through!

  • @progect3548
    @progect3548 Před 3 lety +3

    13:39 right around there you can see it unwrapping as it becomes 1/2.

  • @Hierophant750K
    @Hierophant750K Před 6 lety +102

    All the videos with Ben Sparks have been fantastic on numberphile, looking forward to more!!

    • @numberphile
      @numberphile  Před 6 lety +5

      Here’s his playlist: bit.ly/Sparks_Playlist

  • @sciencecompliance235
    @sciencecompliance235 Před 6 lety +257

    Next time I get in a fight with a romantic partner, I’m going to shout “(1+/- sqrt(5))/2 “ to let them know JUST HOW IRRATIONAL they’re being.

    • @jewelsbarbie
      @jewelsbarbie Před 4 lety

      *Bahaha* 👏🏼😂 me too!

    • @CosmicEpiphany
      @CosmicEpiphany Před 4 lety +17

      Might want to save that for a time when they are being the most irrational.

    • @sahelipaul8436
      @sahelipaul8436 Před 4 lety +4

      Please don't spoil the comment section by making such bad jokes

    • @General12th
      @General12th Před 4 lety +2

      But what if you never have another romantic partner ever again?

    • @DanielDF11
      @DanielDF11 Před 4 lety

      I was wondering if anyone in the comments was going to connect this to people and how they act in relationships. Do I really need to elaborate?

  • @pondrthis1
    @pondrthis1 Před 3 lety +3

    I first came across this property of phi in golden angle-based MRI approaches as part of my doctoral studies. The basic idea is that when you're scanning, the thing you're scanning is evolving with time, but you can only scan one point in k-space at a time. (k-space is a spatial frequency space, but you could think of it as real/image space without losing the take-home here.) If you want to get the "most uncorrelated" data and therefore use your scan time most wisely, or if you want to be able to bin your scans and create a timeseries that "shares" data in a window as it evolves, you should scan in golden angle spirals.

  • @fifthwallrenaissance3433
    @fifthwallrenaissance3433 Před 4 lety +3

    I've had a backstage obsession with the golden ratios (and other numbers/mathematical anomalies), and this blew my mind. Thank you sir

  • @OlbaidFractalium
    @OlbaidFractalium Před 6 lety +887

    flower seem to be better at math than me.

    • @thumper8684
      @thumper8684 Před 6 lety +52

      They use an evolutionary algorithm. They do not know that they are solving a maths problem, but nature put in the constraints and they just blasted out that optimum.
      Maybe there were Root Two seeder sunflowers kicking around for a while before their Golden Ratio cousins took over.

    • @idlingdove5217
      @idlingdove5217 Před 6 lety +7

      +Thumper Maybe you're right. But if it's the Root Two seeders followed by the Golden Ratios, who's next? Maybe the Eulers? (Check out the evolution at 1/e, or around 0.36788, where the seeding looks maybe even more random than at 0.618...)

    • @IgnusNilsen
      @IgnusNilsen Před 6 lety

      Its biology whose smarter then u

    • @brcoutme
      @brcoutme Před 6 lety +5

      idling dove nice thinking on evolution, poor thinking mathematically. Did you even watch the video the Golden ratio was the ultimate randomness factor because it is the 1/(1+1/(1+...)))... so 1/e would be less 'irrational'. On the other hand their could have been 1/e sunflowers already that also got beaten out by the Golden Ratio ones. Also maybe some sunflowers are closer to the golden ratio than others and they are still evolving towards that perfect design (only to go extinct due to completely unrelated climate or ecological changes).

    • @geoff7936
      @geoff7936 Před 6 lety +4

      I believe there are still some plants that use a slightly less irrational number in the angular spacing of their branches. Maybe evolution is satisfied or is still busy optimising

  • @z-beeblebrox
    @z-beeblebrox Před 6 lety +270

    "Hey are you the gold ratio, because you're behaving extremely irrational right now"

    • @involute2831
      @involute2831 Před 6 lety +28

      Probably not your go-to pickup line, not gonna lie

    • @UnderScorePT
      @UnderScorePT Před 6 lety +2

      Daamn

    • @Sonny_McMacsson
      @Sonny_McMacsson Před 6 lety +8

      Message from the Save the Adverb Foundation:
      *irrationally

    • @CraftQueenJr
      @CraftQueenJr Před 6 lety +7

      embustero71 where can I join the Save the Adverb Foundation. I am from the Adjective Protection Agency.

    • @SRPhantoms
      @SRPhantoms Před 6 lety +6

      hey are you a fire alarm, because you are loud and annoying

  • @sshowell448
    @sshowell448 Před 4 lety +2

    I have a pic of a sunflower that demonstrates the golden ratio extraordinarily well... Just looks really amazing. Started noticing the other flowers in that batch had some of that also.

  • @teonyi
    @teonyi Před 4 lety +10

    Arigato, Gyro.

  • @ayo2036
    @ayo2036 Před 5 lety +16

    "I'm not saying flowers are thinking about this", ibelieve you

  • @Denpasuzy
    @Denpasuzy Před 6 lety +239

    So this was the point of lesson 5... Arigato, Gyro...

  • @jewelsbarbie
    @jewelsbarbie Před 4 lety +1

    This is the most *brilliant* and *fascinating* video on Phi that I’ve ever seen in my life!! Well done!!

  • @HunnitAcreWoods
    @HunnitAcreWoods Před 4 lety +3

    what a time to be alive!! thank you for this video, it actually helps my eyes understand what I been seeing...
    I've been seeing the spirals but my eyes used to readjust focus (which hurts), but this model lets me know my eyes weren't broken

  • @HansLemurson
    @HansLemurson Před 6 lety +216

    I want an app that will let me do that spirally thing.

    • @mgregory22
      @mgregory22 Před 5 lety +3

      I think they probably used Processing (processing.org)

    • @stanleydodds9
      @stanleydodds9 Před 5 lety +23

      The app is called... just about any programming language. As an added bonus, they also lets you do every else that is computable.

    • @ponsi83
      @ponsi83 Před 4 lety +1

      I‘m pretty sure you‘ll find something like that on Wolfram Demonstrations...

    • @JosueMartinez-ww1vj
      @JosueMartinez-ww1vj Před 4 lety +1

      I wonder why the hippies didn't use this video to represent hippiness?

    • @SexySnorlax
      @SexySnorlax Před 4 lety +1

      let an indian do it for 15$

  • @abramthiessen8749
    @abramthiessen8749 Před 6 lety +32

    Continued fractions are always fun.
    They make me wonder if a musical interval of 1/phi should be the harshest possible ratio, not the tritone (which is 1/sqrt(2)). But if you try to make 1/phi, what you hear is a sharp minor sixth, closely approximated by 8 semitones and 33 cents.
    The next question is on the 36 tone scale, where would this golden interval resolve?

  • @jojobod
    @jojobod Před 4 lety +49

    YOU HAVE TO SAY “THERE’S NO WAY I CAN DO THIS!” 4 TIMES!

  • @telejeff
    @telejeff Před 2 lety +3

    Thank you, finally this is explained easily! They always mention this in math classes and nature shows, and I've always seen this explanation of cutting golden rectangles into pieces forming a spiral that looks nothing like a flower, and then some sort of a half-assed explanation of, "see, you can form a spiral with the golden rectangle, so spirals in nature contain golden ratios and fibonacci sequences," always leaving me thinking the golden spiral looks nothing like the spirals in sunflowers, and that any rectangle can be cut into a spiral, thus a totally useless explantion. Thank you for fixing this. Finally!

  • @matteogauthier7750
    @matteogauthier7750 Před 6 lety +9

    I had already heard that the golden ratio was found everywhere in nature, but I never could understand why. This video made me see why! I think that the explanation is thorough, understandable and very well presented. Great video!

  • @dusty6299
    @dusty6299 Před 5 lety +82

    So basically a flower is better in math then me. Nice to know.

  • @BandrewMacrew
    @BandrewMacrew Před 4 lety +3

    Nice to see Denethor II from LOTR finally found hes call in life

  • @jamisonr
    @jamisonr Před 2 lety +2

    Watched all this and really enjoyed it...now I'm going to watch again and code my own version. I love when mathematical concepts show some element of symmetry or beauty when you never expect it.

  • @madichelp0
    @madichelp0 Před 6 lety +22

    Great video. I really dislike the rectangle explanation of the golden ratio, it makes it seem so arbitrarily. Saying "it's the least rational number" is a much better way of highlighting its importance.

    • @rosiefay7283
      @rosiefay7283 Před 6 lety +4

      I think that must be a legacy from the Ancient Greek mathematicians. For them, numbers were for quantifying lengths (and areas and volumes), so the shape or aspect ratio of a rectangle comes out naturally.

  • @jamesboultbee1353
    @jamesboultbee1353 Před 5 lety +13

    Ben (or "Mr Sparks" as he was to me) was my teacher for the first year of A Level maths. Sadly he wasn't there for my second year. Needless to say I did a lot better the first year than the second. He was one of the best teachers I ever had, and that's a pretty high bar!

  • @ken-je9oi
    @ken-je9oi Před 2 lety +4

    The Golden ratio is our lesson for this semester. Thanks for the clear explanation ☺️

  • @narnbrez
    @narnbrez Před 4 lety

    Ty for zooming through all the possible curves at the end, very illustrative

  • @blabby102
    @blabby102 Před 6 lety +7

    I've studied about the golden ratio many times and nothing in this video is new to me, but this is an amazing summary and really blew my mind. I love it!

    • @numberphile
      @numberphile  Před 6 lety +1

      Cheers

    • @hariman7727
      @hariman7727 Před 5 lety

      Now if only I could actually figure out the arcane nightmare that is Quadratic Equations as explained by a rather garbage textbook, I could at least say I had that much in math.

    • @dickrichads1979
      @dickrichads1979 Před 5 lety

      @@hariman7727 its easy, watch a video about it

  • @AlonsoRules
    @AlonsoRules Před 6 lety +19

    completing the square - man, that's throwing back the years to my school life

  • @questionable-cf1tt
    @questionable-cf1tt Před 4 lety +2

    Ben is my favourite contributor to this channel. All his videos are fantastic

  • @tex73smith
    @tex73smith Před 2 lety +3

    I was horrible at math in schools but as I grew older I started to understand it better because I had to use it daily. I’m still no mathematician but I am fascinated by ratios and their capabilities.

  • @BulletTheEnforcer
    @BulletTheEnforcer Před 5 lety +25

    This exchange was absolutely captivating; consequently, I was completely entranced by the lecturer's presentation of the subject matter. I could listen to this man speak about mathematics all day. These statements are coming from someone who has historically always had a feeling of dread when approaching math. This man's enthusiasm overrode the dread and made me want to learn and participate.

  • @AmateurSuperFan
    @AmateurSuperFan Před 5 lety +22

    the pattern of the last flower animation was 1, 5, 4, 3, 5, 2, 2, 5, 3, 4, 5, 1 amount of spokes

  • @jaimecassar8427
    @jaimecassar8427 Před 4 lety +1

    One of the coolest videos on Phi I have seen. Hats off!

  • @noid7500
    @noid7500 Před 4 lety +8

    That was nicely done, someone has finally made math interesting to me.

  • @TheDaedalus07o
    @TheDaedalus07o Před 5 lety +15

    The bumps on my popcorn ceiling were moving similarly to 3:30 when I was on shrooms 🤔

  • @soyitiel
    @soyitiel Před 5 lety +5

    0:23 that joke, though

  • @lIlIIlIllIIIllIIllIlIllIllI
    @lIlIIlIllIIIllIIllIlIllIllI Před 2 měsíci

    THANK YOU for that snap frame, it made it a lot easier to stop on the frame to study it a bit

  • @Miss_Flawless
    @Miss_Flawless Před 3 lety +2

    Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the King, Steward.

  • @justcarcrazy
    @justcarcrazy Před 6 lety +52

    All I could think of was "On the Run" by Pink Floyd. How irrational is that?

    • @johnpossum556
      @johnpossum556 Před 6 lety +15

      There was some great math in that album. The bossa nova beat (7/8) was used. The heartbeat also continues the entire album. It was all done manually before they had computers to sync it all up. You want to meet a genius behind that google Alan Parsons.

    • @jadegecko
      @jadegecko Před 6 lety +3

      Same here. Did you ever see the old Arthur C Clarke documentary "Fractals: The Colors of Infinity?" He actually used some Pink Floyd / David Gilmour music in that.

    • @Oleander410
      @Oleander410 Před 6 lety

      that's me, HaHaHaaaaaa!

  • @MasterChakra7
    @MasterChakra7 Před 6 lety +6

    That is one simple, clear and truly amazing video you put together here Brady !

  • @breakthrough3091
    @breakthrough3091 Před 4 lety +2

    This is a wonderful explanation of irrational numbers, and it gives me an entirely different perspective on "the golden ratio". Thank you!

  • @bagortenay1822
    @bagortenay1822 Před 4 lety

    Excellent video!! What makes this video so great is the way quadratic equation is solved, so slick. This is why I watch this channel!

  • @VondaInWonderland
    @VondaInWonderland Před 5 lety +58

    Now I feel like I need to plant my garden in a Fibonacci spiral ♥

  • @rickseiden1
    @rickseiden1 Před 6 lety +56

    "Stop trying to make Parker Square a thing!"

  • @WillyKillya
    @WillyKillya Před 4 lety +3

    It was so cool to see a computer generation really explaining how numbers relate to Nature, it just feels so right

  • @nucderpuck
    @nucderpuck Před 4 lety +2

    Excellent and very clear explanation of the particular irrationality of Phi, very illuminating!

  • @ethanarial4047
    @ethanarial4047 Před 5 lety +3

    I watched this high and I was changed forever