Re: Jessica's parentage. Yes, she never knew who any of her parents were. Baron Harkonnen never knew that Jessica was his daughter and in reality didn't know he had fathered a child. There are clues in the later books which hint that the Reverend Mother Mohiam was Jessica's birth mother, impregnated by Vladimir under less than savory conditions. The books written by Brian Herbert have Mohiam having to use all her trickery to get him to sleep with her because he has no interest in women. It is suggested that she imparts to him during their congress a genetic abnormality which creates the morbidly obese situation he lives the rest of his life with. The movie uses this silly scene of Vladimir seeing his child. This is ridiculous. Paul knows he and his mother are Harkonnen earlier in the book. His Prescient ability and his Mentat training allow him to devine it. His future sight sees the information in the Bene Gesserit breeding records. The Reverend Mothers in charge of the Breeding Program are the only ones who knew before then. This makes the BG plan to pair an Atreides daughter with Feyd Rautha very unsettling because that would be Vladimir's grand daughter married to her own cousin. As far as some of the changes made to the narrative, I liked that Mohiam tells Irulan that the BG ordered Shaddam to create the means to destroy the Atreides because they could no longer control them. This is never suggested in the books but it really tracks with both movie and book narratives. The irony of it is that by sending them to Arrakis they create the very situation they were trying to prevent. Again, in the books it is presented that Mohiam gives Jessica every bit of advice for her and Paul to possibly survive in the ensuing conflagration. That is not to me the work of someone who wants to see Paul destroyed. But given the movie narrative, I now can't ignore that possible duplicity on the part of Mohiam and the BG.
Yeah I didn’t think Baron Harkonnen knew about Jessica, and yes it did seem that Mother Mohaim was her mother but not sure if that was actual biological mother or just a maternal figure because Jessica was her handmaiden at school.
Actually, Dune (the book) ends differently. The Landsraad (the nobles of the galaxy) do accept Paul as the new emperor. However, the holy war comes to happen anyway, because the Fremen have Paul not just as emperor, but as messiah.
Fantastic spoiler review guys of the movie (Never expected anything less!). Gutted I was not able to join live, bloody time difference!! Sorry to hear it was not Shannon's cup of tea, but absolutely respect his opinion. I read an article in Empire about Dune Part 2, about Giedi Prime the home of the Harkennon's and why it was black and white. Villeneuve said : "Villeneuve explained why the planet is treated in black and white and revealed that the idea of a black sun could reflect on the psyche of the people who inhabit House Harkonnen. The idea came from the book. I love this idea and I tried, for Giedi Prime, the homeworld of Harkonnen, there's less information in the book and it's a world that is disconnected from nature. It's a plastic world, he added. I felt that sunlight could give an insight into the psyche of the characters inhabiting the planet. "What if instead of revealing colours, the sunlight was killing them and creating a very eerie black and white world, that will give us information about how these people perceive reality, about their political system, about how that primitive brutalist culture and it was in the screenplay," said the director.
I feel like the Feyd and Paul fight was so well done. It shows you that Paul may not be the best fighter, but he's always thinking. Something that Feyd can't say. Feyd just wants to kill, and Paul knew that from the get-go. Tricks him into thinking that Feyd has him and got him in the end.
From what I recall, the Feyd character in the novel was a boss-level fighter that's every bit as cunning as he was treacherous. He was really like the "anti-Paul" in that he was supposed to be Paul's equal in skills but does not have the intuitive grasp of what hangs in the balance. So I agree to some of what you said except that it was also pretty clear after spending a couple years with the Fedaykin warriors that Paul was a very skilled warrior when he dueled with Feyd.
It also goes back to the training scene with gurne in the first film. He basically pulls the same move. All the training with his father, mother, duncan, the mentat trainig with thufir, and gurne has all prepared him for this.
In the books, Paul is the superior fighter. With having prescience he could see every move Feyd would make. He took the knife stab from Feyd to draw him in closer to him. If you watch the fight. Feyd would always retreat when they were entangled. The Artriedes were known for their superior fighting style. Was training other houses how to fight like them. One of the things the Emperor hated. Because the Artriedes were becoming more popular than the Emperor.
From Vladimir’s face I don’t think he knew he had a daughter nor grandson. I think the character I saw wouldn’t allow his child be away from his grasp let alone defect. If he knew Jessica was his daughter she would be under his command.
I do think it would have been cool if the movie opened on Feyd's gladiator scene and declaring the "final Atreides" are dead to set him up right from the jump, and then cut to Arrakis and Paul (who is very much alive and continues the Atraides line) waking up in the tent with Chani.
Not here for another 10 days, but leaving a like all the same bc the Geek Buddies are awesome! And I listened just enough to hear Rocha Walken!! ❤. I think he needs to do all of his shows as Rocha Walken... 😄
Sometimes i feel like the word masterpiece is used too often. When i see dune 2 though the title masterpiece fits and is well deserved. For me its in my top 5 sequels of all time.
On Herbert and Lucas. Herbert did explore sueing Lucas. It didn't go anywhere, and apparently Herbert dropped it, but he did say in interviews, a little sarcastically: "He [Lucas] could at least have payed a dinner." Book four [spoilers, maybe] brings the inspiration to Jabba the Hutt… I mean, film 3 (Return of the Jedi), and Lucas was still sucking from Dune. I wonder if Lucas showed parts of Herbert's texts to his art department and said: "I want this, draw me this." That said, Star Wars was amazing. But damn!… He could have payed Herbert a dinner. Frank Herbert died in 86, I think. They never met. Of all the inspirational sources he had, George Lucas never mentioned Dune.
He was a big fan of Dial of Destiny, and had very few reservations on that film. That should tell you all you need to know about Mr. McClung's taste. Which, listen's he's entitled to his taste, but knowing how much he liked that film and is "meh" towards Dune, means I'd never take his taste as a reason to watch a film.
It's important that the Baron is the father of Jessica for two reasons. 1) it led to the Kwitsatz Haderach coming a generation early. 2) The Baron ends up possessing Alia because he's in her lineage.
The water of life gives Paul PRESCIENCE: he has access to the past because of access to genetic memory disclosed, and he becomes sensitive to the future. Paul doesn't become evil. He becomes prescient. He has access to the memories of all his ancestors until the moment of conception of the next person, through the genetic material inherited. And also he becomes sensitive to the future. Paul finds out he's grandson of the Baron Harkonnen because of genetic memory. Bene Geserit reverend mothers are also to a measure prescient, but they only have access to female genetic memory, because women don't have y gene.
My biggest issue with this movie is that Irulan doesn't get mentioned by name so that Rocha now butchers her name. Or he just got tired of difficult names because he started pronouncing Villeneuve as Villanueva lol.
Shannon and Michael are TOTALLY INSANE..this movie was far and beyond the bestbin the last decade or two. How in the world can someone not see the pure art of the story and outcome. Rocha has this rite...pure dam masterpiece!!!
The Harkonnen blood is a huge deal because the Atreides and Harkonnens have been in a blood feud for more than 10,000 years. My book feelings say the jihad is about Paul's prescience and his goal to save humanity in the long run, rather than a turn to "evil" or an expression of his Harkonnen blood.
Coming into this film, I'm not the biggest fan of Zendeya but I liked and understood her performance and her character's arc in this film's storyline. She's leary of Paul's asencion thinking He's just like all the other dictators that have come before. Will She and Paul have a reunion in Part 3 ? Ehh probably as I'm sure it's written in the book.
He is literally everything the prophecy foretold him to be, zendayas character is just self-righteous. The reason for the mass deaths is the freeing of the fremen. Essentially, the suffering of her people would have saved the most lives.
One thing about the Harkonnen blood: at this point, class and family ("house") are huge in the political landscape. So, Harkonnen blood being in House Atreides, both of whom are sworn enemies for many generations, has huge political implications. Now that Paul is the Emperor, which in the books the other houses recognize immediately but the movies seem to take a different tack and make them reject upfront, sets up issues with house alliances and bloodlines. Harkonnen was in charge of the spice trade, which was considered the most meaningful commodity in the galaxy. The heads of House Harkonnen were all killed, which basically makes one of the big and powerful houses now powerless. Lots of implications.
In the book paul is 15 n by rhe end of the novel hes 18. There is a 2 year gap between lady Jessica drinking the water of life n paul riding the sandworm for the first time. And Alia is born is 2 yrs old crazy girl. This movie takes away the 2 year gap n so it happens in 8 months cuz alia is not born. In the novel alia is 2 yrs old n talks like an adult cuz she awaken in tje womb called pre born
I was looking forward to seeing Javier play a bigger role this time. He didn't disappoint. I bought Timothee as Paul as I saw the water of life as a form of possession which enhanced all of his psychological and physical training and removed all insecurities. That compensated for being slight of build. I've heard a few criticisms of the casting of Christopher but you can see how he fooled the Atreides that he was benevolent and harmless and on their side. Totally agree that Zendaya sold the betrayal / sadness of the loss of the Paul she fell in love with and possibly her people in war.
Dammit Michael - now i wish the Bene Gesserit series would be an SVU series. Who would be their Benson and Stabler?! And how can they add Ice T? What instrument would they use for the “doink doink” noise?!
John, I think some of the critique of zendaya's portrayal of chani stems from the huge changes from book to movie regarding chani's character. Her performance and her casting were excellent but the story change can be a little difficult sometimes
"I will love you as long as I breathe" but he's about to make a political marriage that is necessary to fulfill what he sees in his visions - the "narrow way through" where they can prevail.
Wow, fantastic discussion! I agree with everything said regarding Dune 2, except the guy who thought it was alright, though he’s entitled to his opinion, of course. Having said that, I watched The Matrix for the millionth time yesterday and couldn’t help but notice the parallels between Morpheus (Stilgar) Neo (Paul) Trinity (chani) and Cypher (Dr. Yue) who betrays them.
I understand y'all's opinion of Florence Pugh, but I can't believe this is the performance that has y'all saying that, especially with Zendaya's performance here & overall catalog.
Still at 30:00 minutes. Loved the movie, but having also loved the 80s version, I wanted the ending to be different. Have not read the books, so look forward to your thoughts.
Just watched the old Dune mini series…. Hatchett Harry from Lock stock Plays Gurney (pretty munch as hatchett harry 😂) and Standish from Slow Horses plays Lady Jessica!
As for the adaptation, @ Mike, there's always the thought that it wouldn't be that difficult to be a little less unfaithful. There are always a few extra changes that make you think "well, he could have been faithful here, it wouldn't have been at expence of the 'translation to cinema'…" I'm not a die hard fam of the books, but if this had been a little more faithful, it would have been a five (Letterbox) stars to me. As it is, it lost a whole star, because it falls into the Hollywood trap syndrome of changing some things for change's sake. Even so, it is a magnificent achievement to me. Probably the best sci-fi film I have seen in my life. Dune manages to be sci-fi fantasy and actual science fiction at the same time, whereas Star Wars (to pick the best example) is really just space fantasy adventure. (Although back in 77 it was also a cinematic achievement of that generation, as this one is now.)
The biggest thing is it's faithful to the spirit and intent of Herbert's story. The fact that people read the first book and assumed it was a hero story for Paul was baffling to him. So he wrote Dune Messiah to underline the point that he was making about class, power, and religious fanaticism: Paul is not a hero. And unlike the '84 film, which hinted at the fear of Paul's immense power but felt like a music video for a hero's journey, these two films faithfully nailed the heart of the story. To me, that was the most exciting thing about the film. As for its changes, I don't believe they were for change's sake in the slightest. This was about adapting a very complex story down to fit into 5+ hours. I miss a number of things from the book, but the "shortcuts" taken felt like smart ways to plainly address the themes and threads of the story in a clear(er) fashion.
I’m with Shannon!!! I can appreciate the artistry and understand why everyone else loves it but doesn’t peak my interest. I’m not drawn in by the lore.
In the novel chanis dad is liet kynes the ecologist ukno the women in the movie. Chani is not full frmen in the book shes half fremen cause her dad is liet kynes whos dad was an off worlder. But all that was changed.
Hes still with chani she will be his concubine while Princess Irulan is his wife only so he keeps being the emperor. Chani will bore his kids and Irulan won't have any love.
I'm with Shannon the score in the first movie was definitely overpowered, the screaming lady started grating on me. The score in Part 2 was far far better. The sound in general was awesome, the Dolby was literally shaking our IMAX seats it was like 4DX.
@lovelyman28 man tho, when Paul first rides the worm,and that theme kicks in, I almost wanted to stand up and scream LISAN AL-GAIB 😂. Hans really outdid himself with the score in this imo
Yo Rocha I love the channel but I’ve watched dune part 1 probably at least 6-8 times fully and Austin butler wasn’t in the background. Would love to be wrong man so let me know the timestamp, he was a great villain and loved his voice sounding like the barons.
A question to Shannon: Don't you think it's a different quality piece of cinema? This is what people are saying when they say it's a masterpiece, I think. You can definitely not like the story or whatever that doesn't click in you with it, but how about the craft? These are two distinct measures. However, I can understand someone not liking a work of art, because it's subjective. But it's always interesting when someone says "I don't quite like this Rodin…" It makes the rest of us think: "Wow! How come??" To me, this film was like a beautiful sculpture.
I can 100% appreciate the artistry and the craftsmanship it took to bring that world to life, which I thought I said, but maybe I didn’t. For me to say something’s a masterpiece, the story has to move me emotionally, it has to stay with me, which Dune didn’t, but I’m thrilled that it is resonating with so many film fans though, because it’s those types of experiences that keep people going to movie theaters.
Chani is not susposed to know that knowledge thats rhe point it violates het character n the world. Its like Denis Villeneuve gave chani the script. Sje shouldnt kbow this abiut the sisterhood thetes jo way she could know living only in the desert makes no sense
Star Wars was one of my first loves. But knowing what happens in Dune: Messiah, it’s hard for me to look at Star Wars the same. There’s story lines and elements that George Lucas flat out copied.
Wait until you read Valérian and Laureline. Everything is a remix. George didn’t do anything anyone else hasn’t done. Wait until you read Beowulf. You’re going to be mad at a lot of movies if you take this same stance.
@@boiledpnutz with the stories you mentioned, did the main character have visions of his loved one dying in childbirth, their mission for that story is to keep that person from dying in childbirth, and in the end their loved one dies in childbirth and it just so happens they unexpectedly have twins? Because oddly enough that happens in Dune: Messiah and Revenge of The Sith. That’s just an odd thing to copy and paste over and over again or as you say “remix” into stories.
Lucas has never been shy about the fact the Star Wars was an amalgam of various things. He didn't/doesn't get specifically into Dune, though it was apparent to many, including Frank Herbert. (Herbert said he could pursue suing Lucas but he hated the time- and money-sink of a legal battle.) But it's one of many influences and direct lifts: Flash Gordon, Kurosawa, 2001, Joseph Campbell, Lord of the Rings, E.E. Smith, Arthurian legend, Eastern religion (particularly Taoism and Buddhism). The thing that works best about Star Wars is it's a blender of all these things and somehow better as a whole than the sum of its parts.
@@Playhouse76 I’m not disagreeing that there’s inspiration from a lot of things, but there are aspects that were just flat out copied. So for ME, it takes the magic out of it a little. It’d be no different if I found out a comedian took an entire bit from someone else. It wouldn’t be as funny anymore.
I'm with Shannon on this one, more enjoyable than part 1 but still had some issues with it. Don't completely buy Chalamet as Paul. That speech in the circle after drinking the water, I don't feel or believe him.
Re: Jessica's parentage. Yes, she never knew who any of her parents were. Baron Harkonnen never knew that Jessica was his daughter and in reality didn't know he had fathered a child. There are clues in the later books which hint that the Reverend Mother Mohiam was Jessica's birth mother, impregnated by Vladimir under less than savory conditions. The books written by Brian Herbert have Mohiam having to use all her trickery to get him to sleep with her because he has no interest in women. It is suggested that she imparts to him during their congress a genetic abnormality which creates the morbidly obese situation he lives the rest of his life with. The movie uses this silly scene of Vladimir seeing his child. This is ridiculous. Paul knows he and his mother are Harkonnen earlier in the book. His Prescient ability and his Mentat training allow him to devine it. His future sight sees the information in the Bene Gesserit breeding records. The Reverend Mothers in charge of the Breeding Program are the only ones who knew before then. This makes the BG plan to pair an Atreides daughter with Feyd Rautha very unsettling because that would be Vladimir's grand daughter married to her own cousin. As far as some of the changes made to the narrative, I liked that Mohiam tells Irulan that the BG ordered Shaddam to create the means to destroy the Atreides because they could no longer control them. This is never suggested in the books but it really tracks with both movie and book narratives. The irony of it is that by sending them to Arrakis they create the very situation they were trying to prevent. Again, in the books it is presented that Mohiam gives Jessica every bit of advice for her and Paul to possibly survive in the ensuing conflagration. That is not to me the work of someone who wants to see Paul destroyed. But given the movie narrative, I now can't ignore that possible duplicity on the part of Mohiam and the BG.
Sheesh. I know I read dune liken20 yrs ago. But dang I gotta re read it
Yeah I didn’t think Baron Harkonnen knew about Jessica, and yes it did seem that Mother Mohaim was her mother but not sure if that was actual biological mother or just a maternal figure because Jessica was her handmaiden at school.
Yeah, the person that the Baron had in the Atreides household was Dr. Yueh, not Jessica.
Just those shots of Paul crossing the desert with the hood over his head and all those fremen parting the seas for him was just mesmerizing
Stilgar (Javier Bardem) pulls a Monty Python's Life of Brian "The Messiah will deny he is the Messiah!!!" 😂😂😂
Actually, Dune (the book) ends differently. The Landsraad (the nobles of the galaxy) do accept Paul as the new emperor. However, the holy war comes to happen anyway, because the Fremen have Paul not just as emperor, but as messiah.
And Paul is more or less against the Jihad -- though he foresaw it -- but can no longer control the now-fanatical Fremen.
Fantastic spoiler review guys of the movie (Never expected anything less!). Gutted I was not able to join live, bloody time difference!! Sorry to hear it was not Shannon's cup of tea, but absolutely respect his opinion. I read an article in Empire about Dune Part 2, about Giedi Prime the home of the Harkennon's and why it was black and white. Villeneuve said :
"Villeneuve explained why the planet is treated in black and white and revealed that the idea of a black sun could reflect on the psyche of the people who inhabit House Harkonnen. The idea came from the book. I love this idea and I tried, for Giedi Prime, the homeworld of Harkonnen, there's less information in the book and it's a world that is disconnected from nature. It's a plastic world, he added. I felt that sunlight could give an insight into the psyche of the characters inhabiting the planet.
"What if instead of revealing colours, the sunlight was killing them and creating a very eerie black and white world, that will give us information about how these people perceive reality, about their political system, about how that primitive brutalist culture and it was in the screenplay," said the director.
This is a real challenge on CZcams rn not trying to hear anyone talk about what happens in the books after dune part 2 😅
For sure. Spoiler review for the movie, not the books!
I feel like the Feyd and Paul fight was so well done. It shows you that Paul may not be the best fighter, but he's always thinking. Something that Feyd can't say. Feyd just wants to kill, and Paul knew that from the get-go. Tricks him into thinking that Feyd has him and got him in the end.
From what I recall, the Feyd character in the novel was a boss-level fighter that's every bit as cunning as he was treacherous. He was really like the "anti-Paul" in that he was supposed to be Paul's equal in skills but does not have the intuitive grasp of what hangs in the balance. So I agree to some of what you said except that it was also pretty clear after spending a couple years with the Fedaykin warriors that Paul was a very skilled warrior when he dueled with Feyd.
It also goes back to the training scene with gurne in the first film. He basically pulls the same move. All the training with his father, mother, duncan, the mentat trainig with thufir, and gurne has all prepared him for this.
Feyd almost killed Paul. Paul wasn't bluffing, he almost bled out.
In the books, Paul is the superior fighter. With having prescience he could see every move Feyd would make. He took the knife stab from Feyd to draw him in closer to him. If you watch the fight. Feyd would always retreat when they were entangled. The Artriedes were known for their superior fighting style. Was training other houses how to fight like them. One of the things the Emperor hated. Because the Artriedes were becoming more popular than the Emperor.
From Vladimir’s face I don’t think he knew he had a daughter nor grandson. I think the character I saw wouldn’t allow his child be away from his grasp let alone defect. If he knew Jessica was his daughter she would be under his command.
I do think it would have been cool if the movie opened on Feyd's gladiator scene and declaring the "final Atreides" are dead to set him up right from the jump, and then cut to Arrakis and Paul (who is very much alive and continues the Atraides line) waking up in the tent with Chani.
Not here for another 10 days, but leaving a like all the same bc the Geek Buddies are awesome! And I listened just enough to hear Rocha Walken!! ❤. I think he needs to do all of his shows as Rocha Walken... 😄
Sometimes i feel like the word masterpiece is used too often. When i see dune 2 though the title masterpiece fits and is well deserved. For me its in my top 5 sequels of all time.
On Herbert and Lucas. Herbert did explore sueing Lucas. It didn't go anywhere, and apparently Herbert dropped it, but he did say in interviews, a little sarcastically: "He [Lucas] could at least have payed a dinner."
Book four [spoilers, maybe] brings the inspiration to Jabba the Hutt… I mean, film 3 (Return of the Jedi), and Lucas was still sucking from Dune.
I wonder if Lucas showed parts of Herbert's texts to his art department and said: "I want this, draw me this."
That said, Star Wars was amazing. But damn!… He could have payed Herbert a dinner.
Frank Herbert died in 86, I think. They never met. Of all the inspirational sources he had, George Lucas never mentioned Dune.
not mentioning Dune is petty. a huge chunk of Star Wars is literally dumbed down Dune
He is a petty guy.@@AllTheArtsy
Yeah I never heard Lucas utter the word dune ever in any interview so he definitely was shady with it.
@@travisgray8376 exactly. I’m so sick of people acting like Lucas wasn’t a weirdo about it, because he knew what he did.
7:20 McClung, "I don't consider Dune 1 or Dune 2 to be masterpieces." Curious, what movie or movies do you consider masterpieces?
He was a big fan of Dial of Destiny, and had very few reservations on that film. That should tell you all you need to know about Mr. McClung's taste. Which, listen's he's entitled to his taste, but knowing how much he liked that film and is "meh" towards Dune, means I'd never take his taste as a reason to watch a film.
It's important that the Baron is the father of Jessica for two reasons. 1) it led to the Kwitsatz Haderach coming a generation early. 2) The Baron ends up possessing Alia because he's in her lineage.
The water of life gives Paul PRESCIENCE: he has access to the past because of access to genetic memory disclosed, and he becomes sensitive to the future.
Paul doesn't become evil. He becomes prescient. He has access to the memories of all his ancestors until the moment of conception of the next person, through the genetic material inherited. And also he becomes sensitive to the future.
Paul finds out he's grandson of the Baron Harkonnen because of genetic memory.
Bene Geserit reverend mothers are also to a measure prescient, but they only have access to female genetic memory, because women don't have y gene.
My biggest issue with this movie is that Irulan doesn't get mentioned by name so that Rocha now butchers her name. Or he just got tired of difficult names because he started pronouncing Villeneuve as Villanueva lol.
Shannon and Michael are TOTALLY INSANE..this movie was far and beyond the bestbin the last decade or two. How in the world can someone not see the pure art of the story and outcome. Rocha has this rite...pure dam masterpiece!!!
if youre not into hard scifi like that, having to get past the worldbuilding hinders full enjoyment of the piece.. thats ok
The Harkonnen blood is a huge deal because the Atreides and Harkonnens have been in a blood feud for more than 10,000 years. My book feelings say the jihad is about Paul's prescience and his goal to save humanity in the long run, rather than a turn to "evil" or an expression of his Harkonnen blood.
The golden path that's what it's all about.
Coming into this film, I'm not the biggest fan of Zendeya but I liked and understood her performance and her character's arc in this film's storyline. She's leary of Paul's asencion thinking He's just like all the other dictators that have come before. Will She and Paul have a reunion in Part 3 ? Ehh probably as I'm sure it's written in the book.
He is literally everything the prophecy foretold him to be, zendayas character is just self-righteous. The reason for the mass deaths is the freeing of the fremen. Essentially, the suffering of her people would have saved the most lives.
One thing about the Harkonnen blood: at this point, class and family ("house") are huge in the political landscape. So, Harkonnen blood being in House Atreides, both of whom are sworn enemies for many generations, has huge political implications. Now that Paul is the Emperor, which in the books the other houses recognize immediately but the movies seem to take a different tack and make them reject upfront, sets up issues with house alliances and bloodlines. Harkonnen was in charge of the spice trade, which was considered the most meaningful commodity in the galaxy. The heads of House Harkonnen were all killed, which basically makes one of the big and powerful houses now powerless. Lots of implications.
Are you forgetting that duke leto and the baron are also cousins ?
First thing i did after this was look for a john rocha sicario review😞. Such an awesome film, the night scenes are crazy.
In the book paul is 15 n by rhe end of the novel hes 18. There is a 2 year gap between lady Jessica drinking the water of life n paul riding the sandworm for the first time. And Alia is born is 2 yrs old crazy girl. This movie takes away the 2 year gap n so it happens in 8 months cuz alia is not born. In the novel alia is 2 yrs old n talks like an adult cuz she awaken in tje womb called pre born
Do nto forget Zero Dark Thirty: one of my favs, Greig Fraser was there also the cinematographer
I was looking forward to seeing Javier play a bigger role this time. He didn't disappoint. I bought Timothee as Paul as I saw the water of life as a form of possession which enhanced all of his psychological and physical training and removed all insecurities. That compensated for being slight of build. I've heard a few criticisms of the casting of Christopher but you can see how he fooled the Atreides that he was benevolent and harmless and on their side. Totally agree that Zendaya sold the betrayal / sadness of the loss of the Paul she fell in love with and possibly her people in war.
1:08:19. What a great point. No music in the fight scene. That was like Gladiator as well with the final fight.
Dammit Michael - now i wish the Bene Gesserit series would be an SVU series.
Who would be their Benson and Stabler?! And how can they add Ice T? What instrument would they use for the “doink doink” noise?!
Hey Mike. Wouldn't the TV show be Bene Gesserit:SBU ?
🤔
John, I think some of the critique of zendaya's portrayal of chani stems from the huge changes from book to movie regarding chani's character. Her performance and her casting were excellent but the story change can be a little difficult sometimes
I would say zendaya sounds like a 21st-century girl. She doesn't sound /feel like a fremen. When she spoke, I just heard a protester....
When the 1st Dune ended I literally exclaimed to a fellow patron that I wanted part 2 now! Now I need Part 3.
"I will love you as long as I breathe" but he's about to make a political marriage that is necessary to fulfill what he sees in his visions - the "narrow way through" where they can prevail.
Wow, fantastic discussion! I agree with everything said regarding Dune 2, except the guy who thought it was alright, though he’s entitled to his opinion, of course. Having said that, I watched The Matrix for the millionth time yesterday and couldn’t help but notice the parallels between Morpheus (Stilgar) Neo (Paul) Trinity (chani) and Cypher (Dr. Yue) who betrays them.
This was definitely a masterpiece!
Hans Zimmer rules !!!!!!!!
I understand y'all's opinion of Florence Pugh, but I can't believe this is the performance that has y'all saying that, especially with Zendaya's performance here & overall catalog.
Blade Runner 2049 is still my favorite Villeneuve film, but I look forward to this one.
I loved Arrival. I guess I need to see BR2049 a few more times.
Still at 30:00 minutes. Loved the movie, but having also loved the 80s version, I wanted the ending to be different. Have not read the books, so look forward to your thoughts.
I thought they kept the line in part one where they meet and Chani tells Paul, "I am Chani, daughter of Liet"
Just watched the old Dune mini series…. Hatchett Harry from Lock stock Plays Gurney (pretty munch as hatchett harry 😂) and Standish from Slow Horses plays Lady Jessica!
I felt like they should’ve had the duel near harkonen, they were the most threatening and were underused
I love how some people think that Paul is Luke Skywalker - and don’t realize he’s Anakin Skywalker. 😂
Fun fact, Kyle was a year younger at start of his production 😂
Jesus xD People really do age better nowadays
So is chani still gonna be pregnant with the twins?
As for the adaptation, @ Mike, there's always the thought that it wouldn't be that difficult to be a little less unfaithful. There are always a few extra changes that make you think "well, he could have been faithful here, it wouldn't have been at expence of the 'translation to cinema'…"
I'm not a die hard fam of the books, but if this had been a little more faithful, it would have been a five (Letterbox) stars to me. As it is, it lost a whole star, because it falls into the Hollywood trap syndrome of changing some things for change's sake.
Even so, it is a magnificent achievement to me. Probably the best sci-fi film I have seen in my life. Dune manages to be sci-fi fantasy and actual science fiction at the same time, whereas Star Wars (to pick the best example) is really just space fantasy adventure. (Although back in 77 it was also a cinematic achievement of that generation, as this one is now.)
The biggest thing is it's faithful to the spirit and intent of Herbert's story. The fact that people read the first book and assumed it was a hero story for Paul was baffling to him. So he wrote Dune Messiah to underline the point that he was making about class, power, and religious fanaticism: Paul is not a hero. And unlike the '84 film, which hinted at the fear of Paul's immense power but felt like a music video for a hero's journey, these two films faithfully nailed the heart of the story. To me, that was the most exciting thing about the film.
As for its changes, I don't believe they were for change's sake in the slightest. This was about adapting a very complex story down to fit into 5+ hours. I miss a number of things from the book, but the "shortcuts" taken felt like smart ways to plainly address the themes and threads of the story in a clear(er) fashion.
Timothee looks like a young Nic Gage
I’m with Shannon!!! I can appreciate the artistry and understand why everyone else loves it but doesn’t peak my interest. I’m not drawn in by the lore.
Blade Runner 2049, as we speak, is still my number 1 from Denis. But that may change upon rewatching Dune P2.
In the novel chanis dad is liet kynes the ecologist ukno the women in the movie. Chani is not full frmen in the book shes half fremen cause her dad is liet kynes whos dad was an off worlder. But all that was changed.
Paul went from a blue-balled boy to a blue-eyed warrior-leader propositioning the empress to a spicy melange à trois right in front of his girlfriend.
Hes still with chani she will be his concubine while Princess Irulan is his wife only so he keeps being the emperor. Chani will bore his kids and Irulan won't have any love.
I'm with Shannon the score in the first movie was definitely overpowered, the screaming lady started grating on me. The score in Part 2 was far far better. The sound in general was awesome, the Dolby was literally shaking our IMAX seats it was like 4DX.
That’s interesting. I actually like the score in Part One more than Part Two but ultimately I like both very much. 😊
@lovelyman28 man tho, when Paul first rides the worm,and that theme kicks in, I almost wanted to stand up and scream LISAN AL-GAIB 😂. Hans really outdid himself with the score in this imo
@@system0fadowner251 I don't think I'll ever forget that moment. That's what I was referencing when I said our seats were shaking. Wild!
Baron never knew about Jessica being his Daughter n he never had control over her dont kbow where u get that from.
great film, great experience
There were times I saw zendaya and not chani
I agree with you, thats how i felt about her 95 percent of the time.
Yo Rocha I love the channel but I’ve watched dune part 1 probably at least 6-8 times fully and Austin butler wasn’t in the background. Would love to be wrong man so let me know the timestamp, he was a great villain and loved his voice sounding like the barons.
Yeah I'd have to re-watch to be sure, but if Feyd WAS in a background shot I guarantee it wasn't Austin Butler since he didn't sign on till part 2.
He was cast after Dune: Part One was made.
A question to Shannon: Don't you think it's a different quality piece of cinema? This is what people are saying when they say it's a masterpiece, I think. You can definitely not like the story or whatever that doesn't click in you with it, but how about the craft? These are two distinct measures.
However, I can understand someone not liking a work of art, because it's subjective. But it's always interesting when someone says "I don't quite like this Rodin…" It makes the rest of us think: "Wow! How come??"
To me, this film was like a beautiful sculpture.
I can 100% appreciate the artistry and the craftsmanship it took to bring that world to life, which I thought I said, but maybe I didn’t. For me to say something’s a masterpiece, the story has to move me emotionally, it has to stay with me, which Dune didn’t, but I’m thrilled that it is resonating with so many film fans though, because it’s those types of experiences that keep people going to movie theaters.
The movie ended, and i was like ""Dude...Are we the bad guys?"
Then the movie went over your head. This movie is similar to the real world. This idea of good/bad is for small-minded starwars movies.
@@jasonthomas9319
LOL okay Paul Atreides. Relax!
Its just a movie.
@alexjack5158 The point is that this is game of thrones, in that it's not this world of good vs evil.
@@jasonthomas9319 I wasn't asking champ.
@alexjack5158 Yes, low iq people never do, and yet we average intelligence folks must still educate those plebes.
I'm with Shannon it's an incredibly well made movie but it does nothing for me outside of that.
Shannon McChing is kind of Jealousy for Timothee Chalamet. 😏 He is also miss -cast in John Rocha CZcams and he is so no negative for every dune cast.
none of the major critics are necessarily RAVING for Timothee Chalamet in this movie either, you know
Chani is not susposed to know that knowledge thats rhe point it violates het character n the world. Its like Denis Villeneuve gave chani the script. Sje shouldnt kbow this abiut the sisterhood thetes jo way she could know living only in the desert makes no sense
I agree with Shannon just saw it with my Dad both of us have read the book and neither of us loved the film we felt it was too drawn out.
Can we please keep race out of it?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Sure.
@@JohnRochaSays my b brotha I didn't mean to be disrespectful I just thought it was random lol love the show keep up the great work!
@@JohnRochaSays by the way did you see the new dune game? Looks pretty good.
61 Billion people will die now cause paul won.
Star Wars was one of my first loves. But knowing what happens in Dune: Messiah, it’s hard for me to look at Star Wars the same. There’s story lines and elements that George Lucas flat out copied.
Wait until you read Valérian and Laureline. Everything is a remix. George didn’t do anything anyone else hasn’t done. Wait until you read Beowulf. You’re going to be mad at a lot of movies if you take this same stance.
@@boiledpnutz with the stories you mentioned, did the main character have visions of his loved one dying in childbirth, their mission for that story is to keep that person from dying in childbirth, and in the end their loved one dies in childbirth and it just so happens they unexpectedly have twins? Because oddly enough that happens in Dune: Messiah and Revenge of The Sith. That’s just an odd thing to copy and paste over and over again or as you say “remix” into stories.
Lucas has never been shy about the fact the Star Wars was an amalgam of various things. He didn't/doesn't get specifically into Dune, though it was apparent to many, including Frank Herbert. (Herbert said he could pursue suing Lucas but he hated the time- and money-sink of a legal battle.) But it's one of many influences and direct lifts: Flash Gordon, Kurosawa, 2001, Joseph Campbell, Lord of the Rings, E.E. Smith, Arthurian legend, Eastern religion (particularly Taoism and Buddhism). The thing that works best about Star Wars is it's a blender of all these things and somehow better as a whole than the sum of its parts.
@@Playhouse76 I’m not disagreeing that there’s inspiration from a lot of things, but there are aspects that were just flat out copied. So for ME, it takes the magic out of it a little. It’d be no different if I found out a comedian took an entire bit from someone else. It wouldn’t be as funny anymore.
I'm with Shannon on this one, more enjoyable than part 1 but still had some issues with it. Don't completely buy Chalamet as Paul. That speech in the circle after drinking the water, I don't feel or believe him.
Dune 2 was an awful film for many reasons.
Florence pugh is so overrated. Performer of her generation? She bores me.
Naomi Scott would’ve made a good Chani