Does The Horn of Winter Wake Giants in the Earth? 💀 ASOIAF Theory
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- What is the Horn of Winter?
Is the Horn of Winter a weapon against the Others?
Which of the Horns that were presented with in the series is the real horn?
And is it possible when sounded the horn of winter actually wakes giants in the earth...?
💀 Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:22 - The Horn of Winter
2:37 - The Broken Horn from Beyond the Wall
5:04 - Horns and Rising Giants
6:47 - Horns Waking Sleepers
9:54 - The Giant Starks
14:27 - And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter...
16:55 - The King Beyond the Wall
18:02 - Horns and Kings
19:22 - The Night that Ended
22:12 - Outro
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💀 All Images from HBOs Game of Thrones used here under fair use - Zábava
Two of those examples you gave of heroes waking from sleep with a horn had dogs with them too! Just like the Starks and their direwolves in the crypts, loved the video dude
Excellent point, I noticed this as well, and in the performance of the “night that ended” we hear that the horn blast “set all the dogs to barking” possibly suggesting waking the direwolves as well, a little bit speculative but interesting to think about
This ties everything together! All first men were large. Human / Giant hybrids, likely. That explains why everything is so big, and why these Stone Warriors are so associated with Giants. Did you get this one? Joramun - when they discuss where they found the horn, one source says that they found it in Joramuns grave under a glacier, while another says it was in a giants grave. The implication is that Joramun was a giant.
Yeah I nearly included this line, he was looking in the graves of giants for the horn while I think this horn raises giants from their graves, and as you’ve said this also implies Joramun, who is likely a first man too, as a giant
Gjallarhorn is also a magical horn from norse mythology that is meant to wake gods (that descended from giants) and immortal warriors called einherjar during a long winter(Fimbulvetr) and start ragnarok during which einherjar will fight ice giants.
Also according to Wikipedia:
"In Norse mythology, Miðgarðr became applied to the wall around the world that the gods constructed from the eyebrows of the jötunn Ymir as a defense against the jötnar who lived in Jotunheim, east of Manheimr, the "home of men", a word used to refer to the entire world."
And in popular myth midgard is the human world that will be destroyed when ragnarok starts
Yes that’s exactly right, upon the sounding of the horn the gods will assemble to fight in the Norse version of the long night, I’ll be using this evidence in my next video, as one of the giants that is said to wake has a flaming sword, comparable to Azor Ahai, a hero of the long night
@@eldric.stoneskin The Wall(s) of Jericho were brought down by horn blasts, as well. Lots of myths seem to touch on the concept of "resonate frequencies" and how they can interact with physical matter. Two classic examples IRL would be singers who can genuinely break glass with their voice and the use of loud/deep sounds to trigger avalanches, or even "dog whistles"/very high pitch frequencies to cause pain/alter behavior. It's amazing how powerful energy set to the right frequency can be.
Surtur is fun and is sort of a primordial Azor Ahai character with his giant, flaming sword of justice.
Cheers!
@@eldric.stoneskinI find it interesting that Surtr is a fire giant that uses a flaming sword that is meant to be brighter than sun:
"amid this turmoil the sky will open and from it will ride the sons of Muspell. Surtr will ride in front, and both before and behind him there will be burning fire. His sword will be very fine. Light will shine from it more brightly than from the sun"
and fights on the side of monsters and ice giants.
Also after he uses it to destroy the old world, new world is created and next generation of gods starts to rule without corruption. In simillar way how Ymir was created after mixing icy mist from Niflheim and sparks from Muspelheim that is protected by Surtr.
I wanted to also mention that Surtr has a wife Sinmara that is called "the pale giantess" or "the pale (night-)mare" but she is really obscure and is most likely a coincidence
@@KarlKarsnark Yeah I have wondered if the Freefolks idea of the horn bringing down the wall actually references the wall of collapsed stone at the bottom of the crypts hiding the first kings of winter, or whether it brings down the wall between life and death, or maybe it does bring down the wall and im completely wrong hahaha
@@eldric.stoneskin "Horns" seem to have 2 purposes in the books, 1.) to make a loud sound that is simply used as a signaling device over long distances, 2.) like to announce arrivals at the Wall, and as a directed "Energy Weapon" that can be used to "bring down" various structures by inducing oscillations in the material itself.
There's no reason a horn can't be both, I suppose. The same horn that "wakes" one set of being may be used to raze the structures of another. Then again, there may also be specialized horns like "Dragon Binder" that can only do one trick, but do it very well.
The biggest questions to my mind are A.) Where do you even get a massive dragon's horn(presumably from a dead dragon, but where do you get that? If they have one horn, where is its matched pair?); B.) How does it become "magical" in the first place? Does someone have to "ensorcel" it, or are all dragon horns just naturally able to be used as dragon-binding horns?
We shall see....I hope. Cheers!
I love the idea that Ice was a normal sized sword for a Giant Man. This has implications for how long ago the Starks obtained Ice. Since it is referred to as 'valyrian' we are led to assume it was only a few hundred - maybe a thousand - years ago that the Starks, and other westerosi houses traded with Valyria. But your theory suggests it much older, back to when the Starks were Giants, which must be as old as can be. Back to the 'First Men' era before the Long Night, I reckon. But that was long before Valyria . So they must have got the blade from somewhere else. I think this can only mean that it is a Great Empire of the Dawn item - not valyrian. The GeoD would be the originators of the forging style, later passed on to the Valyrians. So what does this mean? It means that the GeoD was in Westeros, active and trading back in the Dawn age, giving items to the Giant-human hybrid houses, like Stark. Presumably these Magic horns are GeoD as well? Could this mean that the GeoD was alive and active in Westeros around the time of the fall of the Long Night? Can you interpret some stories - like Bael the Bard, Nights King etc - now keeping in mind that the First Men are giants, and the GeoD should be around?
Personally I think that the current sword Ice was remade in Valyria 400 years ago as Cateyln says, but this opens up the possibility that the original sword Ice from the age of heroes might have been even bigger? I’m also wondering if the proto stark was a GEotD person and the GEotD people were Giant in size, that fandoms suggested that the GEotD originate from Asshai, which is presented as a giant city, being far larger in size and possible scale than anything else on planetos, possibly suggesting the GEotD people as being Giant in size as well
The original Ice was probly a proto-valyrian sword i.e. made before Valyria existed but with the same azor ahai blood magic.
I love that you mentioned house Goodbrother. They're named as such because they claim lineage from the Grey King's unnamed older brother. Well, I think the Grey King is the first Barrow King and the Starks and their stone men are who the Barrow Kings warred with during the 1000 years war. Grey King also said to have reigned for 1007 years. Undead giant stone kings warring with undead giant stone kings both led by greenseeing brothers.
Every time I start your videos, I’m like okay neat idea but I don’t think so bud. And by the end I’m 1000% convinced. Really enjoy your videos
Hahaha glad you liked it! Cheers 💀🍻
I see Eldric stoneskin and i watch plain and simple always high quality stuff can't wait to see what you do next. And you should consider doing other videos like discussions or just something easier to edit so you can drop vids more often and grow a following faster you definitely have the skill for it
Thanks! I’d love to drop videos more often but I’m super busy irl, hoping to release a video at the end of each month, and would love to do discussions or livestreams, I’ve been invited on the David Lightbringer channel for a livestream sometime in Feb or March so that could be how I get into live discussions
@@eldric.stoneskin hell yeah man can't wait to see that
Been looking forward to this ❤❤
Good morning! Let’s go! Gonna have to try and sneak this in lol.
Hope you enjoy 🍻
Damn that "Horns Waking Sleepers" section was super interesting! GRRM loves lore so I can defiantly see him drawing from stories and legends like these.
Yeah I thought the same, I only came across it after my research into the “king asleep in the mountain” motif, glad you enjoyed it!
Your theories are so awesome. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!💀🍻
I've had this connection in my mind that might fit with your next video on the nights watch.
There have been studies on how to inform people in the future of hazards of nuclear waste. It's difficult to know how to communicate with people 10,000 years from now, so they have studied the effectiveness of symbols, wording, or aggressive architecture. One idea that reminds me of the nights watch was the idea of the Atomic Priesthood.
A religious order charged with maintaining the story of what was dangerous and passing down the knowledge as various beliefs, rights, and norms.
This echoes the nights watches role in waking the sleepers. They still know the words but the meaning has gotten fuzzy.
Excellent point! Yes I believe the nights watch were charged with an ancient knowledge they’ve now forgotten, as you’ve said the fact that there are “sleepers” that need to be awoken, but it seems they’ve forgotten in the same way “the north remembers” something that I’m pretty sure they’ve forgotten as well
Ygriite: A long time ago, they say, some old Southern king enslaved our giants by magic, and forced them to build your famous Wall.
Then he kicked all of my kind to the other side and raised an army to keep us there.
And we're the uncivilized ones? "Wildlings."
____
I still maintain that there will be one heck of a plot twist.
So Bran the Builder enslaved the Giants - his own people.
IIRC there is a ‘burial ground” of Giant’s bones you could see the arrows of the Children of the Forest still embedded in the chest plates of the Giants.
I think this is the split. Bran the Builder made a pact with the Children against his own people and the Night King (Who I believe is OG Jon Snow) split and was kept above the wall.
I have said for a long time that the physique of the Starks does not match their Sword and dire wolf.
I think the Starks shrunk… just like the Targaryen dragons shrunk.
What would make these two magical families degenerate?
Did separating the Starks from their dire wolves …shrink them?
Or was their ancient form bred out of them.
You know nothing Jon Snow!
What if Ygritte was stating a hard fact that Jon has no clue who he is or his family's true history.
My theory about the dire wolves is that the 3 Eyed Raven sent Bran his dire wolf Summer and the other puppies, but it was the Night King who sent Jon his dire wolf Ghost.
Therefore anything that Ghost does is directed by the Night King… so finding the horn, is NOT to attack the Others but perhaps to free the original Stark Giants against the interlopers.
This entire series by GRRM is about usurpation from the dawn of time, family member against family member.
We see the Starks as "good people"... but are they really?
Do you think the 3-Eyed Raven/Blood Raven's cave was a "good place"?
Do you think that Blood Raven was there willingly being bound by tree roots?
Even in the show do you think that Bran was a good King letting known thieves run the treasury?
I think GRRM gave us the best clue with Syrio Forell, or as I like to call him See For Real.
He also said that these prophecies are not to be trusted yet everyone is trusting these prophecies like Azor AHAI as truth.
These prophecies are not truths... they are scripts handed down for generations with the view that everyone will act out their appointed scene on cue. Notice how everyone has dismissed Jon killing Dany because a myth from thousands of years ago said she might be a reincarnation of Nissa Nissa...blah blah blah. See how dangerous that is!
GRRM gives the clues, for instance, there are two times when Ned recovers a dead Lady of Winterfell and ensures their bodies are entombed in the crypts of Winterfell, his sister Lyanna, and Lady, the dire wolf. Well, Ned killed Lady to save the reputation of Winterfell... did he do the same to his sister??? I think so, for the same reason he sent his only brother to the wall even though his father and older brother were recently killed.
Anyways, all this to say that any waking of Giants, I don't see them playing on Team Bran/Children of the Forest
Yeah I don’t think the original Starks were very good people, I think their original sin caused the long night but was also used to end it
I also suspect that Bran the Builder was body snatching giants to build the wall, an echo we see with Bran and Hodor, check out Part VII Stone Knight if my greyscale kings beneath Winterfell series which covers all this
@@eldric.stoneskin "an echo we see with Bran and Hodor" Oh wow, great catch. Will check it out
Okay, but does Mance HAVE the horn? From what Tormund says, he does not. They had to give up the search.
No I think Sam currently has it
I like your voice theory man. I'll sub
Cheers 🍻
🎉
Banger video… answering the question that came into my head about the horn Jon found north of the wall.. 👌🏻 very good
Would’ve loved it in the show
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it
EVERYBODY SHUT UP ELDRIC STONESKIN JUST DROPPED
🤣🤣🤣
Sounds so badass, like Yorm The Giant awakening once more to rekindle the flame. Some darksouls sort of stuff
Does hey! I really need to play Darksouls again, such good games
Amazing as per usual do you think that all the statues in the crypt will wake like the most recent Kings of winter,Lords and lyanna as its just their bones too
I think it will just be the original kings of winter behind the collapsed wall of the crypts, I think they were turned to stone men with greyscale and the statues the Starks create in the crypts from them on are a misunderstood echo of the original stone kings of winter at the bottom level of the crypts
Knowing George likes to take fantasy tropes and make them realistic in his universe, I think greyscale makes the “statue returning to life trope” feel more realistic
Im thinking that if a skinchanger wanted to become as close to a god as possible and make their body eternal, slipping their spirit into a weirwood and turning the body to stone with greyscale would allow them to slip back into their stone corpse would allow them to live forever as the body would never deteriorate or age, allowing that which is dead to never die and rise again literally harder and stronger
Always look forward to watching your videos. Love your work @Eldric Stoneskin 🥰 If you're free at 10:30am this morning, "Something To Taco Bout" will be doing a Livestream on "The Nightfort" with guests, Michael Talks About Stuff and The Interesting Nerd Club. Hopefully see you in the chat!
Thanks! I’m working today but will try and pop into the chat for a while!
I love this idea that some first men were Giants. As the term "First Men" is a catch-all generalization for all peoples on Westeros at the time of the Andals' arrival, I'm inclined to think not all first men were Giants. But some, yup...
Yeah I agree, Id say there were many different culture that made up “the first men” I think, some of which were just very tall and considered giant
My mind us kinda rushing with a couple ideas. When you said "yawning caves" I was suddenly struck with an odd comparison, because it's directly related to the Wall. This isn't theory, it's stream of thought.
Ok, so the NW vow includes "horn that wakes the sleepers." Weirwoods themselves are often given a lot of "giant" symbolism, often even sleeping. The thing is we see a NW wake a sleeper in this context. It doesn't take down the Wall but it creates a literal yawning opening allowing Sam to pass.
I'm not saying there isn't a horn that will wake Starks. More suggesting that it may not be correct to consider the horn of Joramun and the horn of Winter as the same thing. The NW itself may be one of them with a more literal object waking stone men. Because Sam saying his vow to the Black Gate causes a "giant" to wake and yawn allowing the Wall to be bypassed. Ironically Mance may actually have had the horn he wanted the entire time. What he didn't have was the location of the giant.
Yeah that’s an interesting take on the idea and definitely has merit, they do call themselves a horn during their vows and Sam does wake this giant, great comment!
It's understandable why TV show must have been gone the other way. Most of the symbolism and foreshadowing were lost due to movie language, timing and budget.
Yeah that’s right, and they really toned down the fantasy too, I was praying for them to rise up during season 8 but no such luck lol
While I can think of at least one case of a horn bringing down Walls (Joshua and the Walls of Jericho), I think Eldric has it right about what the Horn of Winter will actually do.
I was always fascinated by the loot found at the Fist of the First Men. The dragon glass daggers make sense (given what we see they can do). But what about the horn? I had thought it was the Horn of Winter, but I basically forgot about it do to so much to consider. And what about the Night's Watch cloak? Who's cloak was it (someone the readers would know or not)? Why was the loot wrapped in it? One thing George is magnificent at is imbuing everything with so much symbolism and meaning.
Yeah the wall falling idea might be the freefolk misinterpreting a lyric from the song, I think it might be referencing the wall of collapsed stones at the bottom of the crypts falling as these giants wake or the wall between life and death falling or maybe it actually does bring down the wall as these giants wake in some sort of magical payoff?
@@eldric.stoneskin I think it is entirely possible the Freefolk misinterpreted some lyrics. It's not as if that would be the first time it happened in the series.
Can't think of specifics but I'm pretty sure this happens in a Conan story too and I'm of the opinion there is more Robert E Howard inspiration than H P Lovecraft.
I’m going to look into this now, I’m not too familiar with Conan, thanks for the heads up!
@@eldric.stoneskin black stone is especially prevalent in the hyperborean cycles of both Howard and Clark Ashton Smith
@@eldric.stoneskin I'll try and look up the story but I'm remembering one in specific where Conan ended up in an old ruins with stone/iron statues of an ancient race that wake up and kill either his pirate crew or the people who were chasing him. There is also a member of the race of advanced people who existed before who are now violent giant monkey people in that story iirc.
I just looked into it and it appears there's a horn called the Horn of Azoth, which was found in the mouth of a statue and wakes a giant skeleton of an ancient god buried in the side of a mountain! Very brief overview I found on a wiki, Excellent pick up @Loreweavver
@@eldric.stoneskin not the one I was thinking of but that has all the marks too.
The statues look down because they sit on top of the tombs, unless you think the bodies are in some type of oversized, upright sarcophagus. Per AGOT Eddard I, "The Lords of Winterfell watched them pass. Their likenesses were carved into the stones that sealed the tombs."
I still like the theory, just think that one point isn't necessarily valid. The statues could be oversized, but I couldn't find that said more explicitly anywhere?
I pictured the tombs as being holes in the wall with the statue sealing the entrance, with a tomb being “a large vault” not just a small sarcophagus
We hear that Rickon “was standing in the mouth of Father's tomb” telling me the tomb is an entrance in the wall
I could be wrong though?
There was also some crazy battles between religions in Mexico about coke and Pepsi, look into they one lol
Haha will do! If it turns out one side woke giants in the earth with the sound of a horn I’ll owe you one lol
Youve brilliantly explained stone-giants. Could the talk of 'waking dragons from stone' also reference these stone giants? For that to work, the giant people who have turned to stone must also be dragons in some way. I think this can be the case if the Stone Giants underneath Winterfell for instance, were the proto-Stak people, who were GeoD people. GeoD race seems to be Valyrian looking - pale skin, silver/gold hair and jewel eyes. GeoD also seem to have used 'dragon-steel', and seem to have ridden dragons (Winged Knight/ Serwyn of the Mirror Sheild). Therefore, they were dragon people. This might have even more relevance. In the case of the Targaryens, it seems that dragon riding people have actual dragon DNA in them. Dragon eggs are confirmed to be able to turn to stone, and yet can still be fully revived hundreds of years later. That is one undeniable case of dragons being able to turn to stone and survive - just like these stonemen. Some theories that the dragon statues on dragon stone were living dragons that turned to stone. If adult dragons had the ability like their eggs do, to petrufy and revive, it would support the idea that dragon-people (GeoD) have the prerequisite genetics to survive petrification.
Exactly! I actually do think the proto Starks were GEotD as you’ve said, and this is why we see so many suggestions of there being dragons under Winterfell, and why there are gargoyles on the first keep at Winterfell, just like at dragonstone, and why the Last Hero had a weapon of dragon steel, and why there is a prophecy of Azor Ahai (Jon Snow) waking dragon(people) from stone, the same person who dreams constantly of the crypts and the stone kings waking
Also note that the ghosts with gemstone eyes that Dany sees in her vision in AGOT are most likely GEotD people and they are described as kings lining the halls with swords in their hands, reminding us of the kings of winter lining the halls of the crypts with their swords in hands
And to further this the gemstone kings dany sees have “swords of pale fire” which is interesting because we see Oath keeper and Widows wail, swords of the kings of winter, light up with pale fire too in Jamie’s weirwood dream, further suggesting the kings of winter as GEotD dragon people
Which makes me think that maybe the horn of winter and dragonbinder work together, with the Horn of Winter waking these giant dragon people in the earth and Dragonbinder binding these dragon people to your will
@@eldric.stoneskin I love that. It reminds me of the theory that Dragonbinder doesn't bind dragons to your will - it bind people to your will - hence why Euron was able to convince everyone at the Kingsmoot after he had the horn blown. This theory, that stone-dragon-people, will be bound to someones will, resonates with that.
@@eldric.stoneskin Most fans assume there is an actual dragon / egg under winterfell. Do you think there's any chance of there being a real dragon down there? I mean, why not? If the Stonemen are GeoD, they probably did have dragons. Stonemen, and stone dragons, being controlled by a child... This is reminding me of cyvasse. Have you brought cyvasse into your theories yet? A player moves stone armies and a dragon around a board, like what (presumably) Bran will have to do with the stone knights. In cyvasse, the players are said to have to consider 'when to use the dragon', and not to bring it out to early.
I haven’t used it yet but I will now lol, that is perfect, I’m going to do a bran controlling giants video eventually I’ll use that! Thanks very much! And yeah I thinks it’s very possible there’s a stone dragon down there, but it seems crazy to come out and say it haha, but it could be the “stone beast” that takes wing from a tower breathing shadow fire
Wasnt there a pact with the White Walkers?
Maybe? We dont know yet
I wonder about those that blow the Horn of Winter. Does it do anything to them? The Dragon Horn is supposed to kill those who blow it, so does the Horn of Winter have a cost as well? And if not death like the Dragon Horn, maybe they are then tied to the horn and awakened with the Stone Giants (just not as Stone Men). But that's just speculation on my part.
Yeah interesting thought, I’m sure there’ll be some cost to using it as there is with all of GRRMs magic
@@eldric.stoneskin yeah, there likely will be. George is rather consistent with that. I'm brimming with curiosity as to what cost it will be
What is with Australian ASOIAF theorists and being legendary?
Thanks mate! 💀🍻
I agree that evidence suggests first men were large. But how could this relate to the Others, who appear to be the size of normal humans? I'm inclined to think that whatever the Others are, they derived from the First Men. They are thought to have first appeared in the Long Night, which happened when there were only First Men and CotF on Westeros. They definitely don't look like CotF, so they have to have a First Man origin, right?
Well we do hear the others described by Waymar Royce as being “tall and gaunt” not exactly giant in size but worth a mention, I’m beginning to think the Others were just a race of ice people who lived in the north who were “otherised” by a race of fire people who came from the east, it’s one option I’m looking into atm but I can definitely see evidence for them being derived from the first men too
@@eldric.stoneskin You'll need to do a whole series on the Others. It seems vital to the whole Stonemen idea. Presumably, the whole reason the proto-starks created the stonemen ritual was by necessity in order to be able to survive the Others. And they were so scared they had the stonemen live down there all this time in case the Others came back. It puzzles me, as Stone and Ice are not opposites symbolically. And I cant see how the magic or concepts discussed here with the stonemen could have any relevance to Ice-people.
How long do you think the long night will last? The last one seemed very long what with children born and living and dying all in darkness and what not. This one will definitely be shorter but should we expect to see Jon walk out of this an old man. Provided he hasn’t reach some sort of azor ahai/fire wight semi immortality. But how old Arya or Sansa are going to be coming out of this. Any time skip is definitely going to be weird but it’s also going to be weird it last one episode like the show.
Yeah I agree it won’t last a generation but it also won’t just be one night either I don’t think, even just the name “a dream of spring” implies that it lasts long enough for people to wish for the return of spring
Only the wildlings think it wakes giants !!!!
Jon Snow is the person that constantly repeats the idea that the horn wakes giants though, the freefolk seem to believe it brings down the wall
I can't read comments more than four lines long! What became of "read more" ?
Not sure why sorry?
I think you've fallen for George's mythological misdirection, that's what he WANTS you to think.....The giant part is not literal, it's a metaphor for something, but not giant first men. The Channel "Michael talks about stuff" has the answer I suspect: Giant weirwood trees inside the wall, that literally create the wall, with others crucified to them, and the crucified others are the shadows we met in the House of the Undying, projected from their captured bodies inside and powering the wall.. It's a brilliantly logical theroy, if you listen to the full idea how it works.
How does that relate to the horn of winter? I don’t think George wants us to believe that it actually wakes giants either with most characters in the book series believing it brings down the wall and most people in the fandom believing it causes Weirwoods to shake their roots and cause earthquakes, I think the horn of winter actually waking giants in the earth would George’s way of this prophecy playing out in unexpected ways
@@eldric.stoneskin essentially the horn brings down the wall by calling the weirwood giants inside it to shake it off, revealing the "giants". Just saying that doesn't do full justice to his evidence and reasoning, so recommend hearing it and deciding for yourself. Here's part one of the theory, not sure if he gets to the horn in it or a later part: czcams.com/video/zQU5tk4i1Cs/video.htmlsi=K7SjWyQ1DpojMTN7
@@davidcauley9400 I’ll check it out, thanks mate 🍻
LOL, The Army of the Dead was JRR Tolkien's dumbest idea ever !!! Deus Ex Machina !!! Doubt GRR Martin will use this plot device !! GRRM is likely to subvert many JRR's expectations hehehe
The army of the dead motif has played out through folklore for hundreds of years, it’s a very common story element that George would definitely draw inspiration from, the Others are leading an army of the dead as well in fact
@@eldric.stoneskin The Others army of the dead is kinda fresh dead that they could control. These Legendary Heros, why would they fight for anyone that wakes them up from peaceful after life haha