Marvel 2...has CHANGED!
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2021
- #MarvelVsCapcom #MvC2 #ratio
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![[MVC2] Low Tier Tournament Finals - Yipes/Justin Wong Commentary @ D-CAVE (Timestamps)](/img/n.gif)
"I wanna take you for a ride...for the next 20 years." -Mahvel
No one said how long the ride was gonna be. Let's enjoy every moment of it
IT'S MAHVEL BABBBBYYY!!!!!
Me, an intellectual: dOn'T mInD iF I dO
I've started with SF1. Back in the arcade it was regarded as a "PRO" game. I've made it to Sagat numerous times, but never beat that cheap mofo
Even tho Disney killed the MVC franchise, Mahvel will still live on in our hearts
"Amingo, Dr. Doom, and Ken"
thats one of the more max flavored teams I've seen in a while
Ngl the point system is probably one of the coolest things that people have done with this game. It encourages creativity with team building instead of facerolling with cable, storm and magneto.
you mean cable, sentinel, magneto or cable, sentinel, dr.doom occasionally you might get cable, sentinel cyclops .........people love those spammy characters, which is what brings the game down when its so massively unbalanced....People love to cry about how a game should have 6500 characters but don't think about how balance works.
Whe I first heard about the point system I was tickled. This is just what this game needs. It brings visual interest and team difference back. I'd straight up get back into this game if this is how it will be from now on. Not having to fight the same team all the time.
same as capcom vs snk, in a way anyways
What is " Point system " ?
@@exitioregem8466 least the first one. I'd not mind some characters having variable ratios. Like knock a point off one to weaken them to strengthen another. I know that is not possible without romhacking, but might be neat.
That ratio system is genius.
This is all we ever needed. Being a low teir hero on this game was fun and now we get to actually see other characters getting fleshed out.
tbh, if you were here from the beginning they were all fleshed out.
@@MalikEmmanuel Literally lmao. They always been fleshed out. In some tournaments you would see high tier/ meta characters for to win a bag. Mid and low tiers always been flesh out in regular matches
@@shinmasterryu Yeah. It just the tops are so top that they dominated the meta. Ask anyone that knew their non meta team and they knew the ins and outs of them. Like, I use Hayato and so few knew he has his own chain system from his game.
@@shinmasterryu with the possible exception of dhalsim, everybody was looked at thoroughly. It's only these people that came 10+ years into the game's lifespan wondering why the meta is mature.
@@ReikuYin we used to call it the 4 GOD TIER characters, then the high tier after that....you sound as if you are one of those people who came late to the party asking why the food is cold.
Back in the day, before the meta was mature Iceman and Doom were considered top tier and Guile was thought to be a counter pick for Sent. It took a while before the meta matured to what it is now.
Also, the internet wasn't what it is right now, CZcams didn't exist, videos had to be hosted somewhere at cost and/or DOWNLOADED at your own risk. We had forums but not a lot of video, so there was a lot of talking shit but showing shit happened in money matches and at tournaments. STSFN was real. Games matured much more slowly back then, some tech was never seen until Evo.
When you see all your favorites and have points to spare...
5-point-and-below teams, represent! \m/
(Don't listen to them Sonson, Sakura, and Servbot. You're all still my mates.)
Blackheart, Marrow and Shuma Gorath still works!
Jill, Ruby Heart, and Roll all day
Looking at that points list makes me realize just how bad I am at marvel games. I was trying to put a team together and I was thinking “I’m decent with Iceman, and I have a passable Hayato... Still got 3 points left... Oh, it doesn’t matter because I don’t have any more characters I’m good with.”
@@gqsnowman Initially, I looked to my classic team of Sentinel, Blackheart and Magneto... *Nope*
Okay, legitimately love this Point Tier System for team building! This makes it that teams aren’t filled with OP tier 0 characters, and see a variety of different team comps! It should be slowly rebalanced, but I dig it! This should be make the official tournament ruling in the future!
What is Point System
@@edwardkenway7982 DIDNT you noticed the explanation Max made at the beginning?
@@gamerkingdom1442 Oh ok, didnt pay attention, I put max on and do my work at home, I should pay more attention, thanks
@@edwardkenway7982 i get it dude. I sometimes do just that as well.
@Sith Jawa I’m not talking about casually, I’m talking about competitive. Can you honestly tell me, that a competitive player, will decide to play ROLL on a whim? 🤨
This Point System makes it that, the team building actually has meaning, instead of just “oh, Cable is SSS tier, so of course I have to pick him!” It opens up the roster very differently!
man the visuals of Marvel 2 really hold up
It's like comparing 2D hand drawn cartoons to 3D animated cartoons. The 3D ones will always look worse. Even looking back at some of Pixar's older works, not all of it holds up visually.
@@djhero0071 Cant say I agree with 3D animation 'always' looking worse. Now that we've gotten to the point where animators are comfortable with using it there have been some truly beautiful cg movies.
Apart from Mega Man & Morgan I agree
@@djhero0071 guilty gear strive cof cof
@@soapbiter36577 nah… there is no 3D game that will look as good as a 2D hand drawn sprite. Look at MVC1 and 2 vs 3. Mvc3 started using the stupid 3D looking stuff and all of those characters look like total garbage compared to their previous models on the 2D platform.
Rogue and Gambit's specials actually link to one another. If you do Rogue's super that hit them a bunch, then tosses em into the air, then use Gambit's Card draw super, his staff that he throws in the air will actually knock the opponent back down into his super as he is about to do it.
Huh neat.
Makes sense given at the time of these games marvel had them as a couple...too bad they have sunk so low now🥺
@@starbreaker6441 Idk man check.
You had to do it early if you did it at the top of her throw when she kisses them they would be thrown higher and you'd lose a lot of it. But Rouge had good synergy with a lot of the cast. My favorite was Rouge into Hayato level 3 into strider Ragnarok. Seemed only the shoto's dropped out of it just was always fun to land.
@@starbreaker6441 They are. Mr & Mrs X
This is the most interesting Marvel 2 has probably ever been for me as a spectator, lmao. awesome to see new life in this game on Max's channel, would love to see more
Yeah. I must admit I get so tired of watching people stick to their "mains". Every Fighter I've ever played since SF2, I at least explore the full roster. For the sake of variety, if nothing else.
My first fighting game was MVC2 I don’t care how old I get I will never get tired of playing it
Talk about jumping into the deep end of the pool. Mine was SFII at launch.....
@@racer_x4449 i appreciate meeting og street fighter fans. while my start was hyper fighting (snes) i love sf2 in general.
Mine was KOF2005
I wasn't there when they rolled the cab offa' the truck at the 7-11 or anything, but mine was Street Fighter II uh, too. :3 (at which I was GEE-YOD awful until it came home and I could really get some practice in!)
The character designs look so freaking good in this game. Capcom fighting games at their absolute finest aesthetically was in these pixelated retro fighting games
The Dog always wins
RIP DMX
X will always give it to ya.
DOG is GOD backward
@@rebirth2526 why am I just realizing this
Anyone remember DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 having this point system as a game mode?
my fav dragon ball Z yes!
Yup. Funny that Arale was only a 5. Devs had no idea of her potential.
*Hercule laughs in being secretly broken in those games do to unavoidable unlockable rush down lock on super attacks*
Damn I just made a comment about that before I saw yours but this is exactly what this reminded me of
@@loganbly1071 How I wish that were true...if all of his stuff wasn’t predictable and can be easily countered.
Glad that J Wong brought the idea up. I've thought about low tier stuff (not like it's a unique idea), but I'm just some random and not a fgc legend. Now do this for umvc3!
it wasn't justin's idea he just made this chart, also people have been doing it for mvc3 for a while.
Waiting for some goofy dude legit considering using Roll so that they can pick Storm for their team
Why would they need Roll? Couldn't you just pick Storm plus a pair of 1-pointers? Storm, Shuma-Gorath and Chun-Li sounds fun.
Because no one likes Roll...
I'll make an attempt and see how many matches I can lose.
*cough* Jwong
God this game needs to be released on next gen play stores.
I hope it comes to Xbox backwards compatibility soon
probably never, you know with Disney and stuff
This should be the new standard for tournament play. Is so much fun men. btw Capcom need to revive Captain Commando. I love that character so much
baby commando is my favorite
This ratio thing is awesome, would love to see a tournament with this set up.
I hate how this man makes me miss a game I am completely unable to ever play again.
Look up NullDCBear
Cheap used Dreamcast+GDemu= Not paying out the ass for classic fighters like MVC2, CVS2, Project Justice, etc.
I wish capcom went back to this. Yes, back to 2D fast paced insane crazy action T.T
@@yuzuichikawa yeah I wish they go back to the cartoony/anime look, mvc infinite would be a little more bearable if it looked like guilty gear or fighterz
You can play it online on FightCade 2 no problems. Setting it up takes a while but when you finally get all of the roms, it's golden :)
MvC 1, 2, Xmen Children of the Atom, Marvel Super Heroes, and Street Fighter vs Xmen need modern rereleases in the form of an HD collection or an anniversary collection
I'd love to play Children of the Atom again.
I literally bought the arcade machine that has X-men vs street fighter , children of the atom , marvel vs capcom 1, and mutant apocalypse. It’s dope don’t get me wrong and it has online so that’s good to and it’s good online in my opinion. But dang I really wish we could get a HD collection with everything or at least marvel vs capcom 2 ! But who knows maybe we will get something
BRO the setup for this video is so sick. I love the ratio chart idea, and I'd be super down for more content like this!
Who are you?
I would love to see a marvel 2 ratio
tournament. no joke.
Edit: Captain america, Guile, Ken is my team
My team doesnt even change and im kinda hurt...
Strider, Hayato, SonSon....
In fact neither of my teams changed with my alt team being
Akuma, Charlie, Amingo
My team is Capt America/Silver Sam/Doom which puts me at 8 points...RIP
@@WeaponXYZ one thing i wonder about this ratio rule is does it have to hit all 7 points or can it be points under? cause my team technically makes 6 points.
@@Studioterrel You are allowed lesser teams, you just cant go over 7 points. This it to ensure that you team isn't too "powerful" (Though there is nothing against having a team that is too "weak")
@@WeaponXYZ Same. Hayato, Rouge, Strider. 8.
Damn
The hilarious thing about this video's timing is that I literally _just_ started playing through MVC2 again.
And my team is a total of 5 points.
I feel targeted.
What's your team? I just picked up the game myself, and I'm learning to use Ryu, Cap, and Hayato because they look cool
@@Neon-yj9xw I've been running with Hayato, Sakura, and Gambit pretty much purely off their looks lol. Sakura's gameplay still trumps me pretty hard but she's really fun to hit buttons on when you get a rhythm going.
@@ArchsSpace Sakura's the next character I want to learn, but I generally play Ryu first out of principle
Awww, poor Roll. "|3
Indeed. I'd say she's better in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, but it has been a while since I've played it.
@@pious83 she was. One of the best assists in the game even.
Then again in TvC pretty much every character was considered viable(Except for Lightan I believe)
Is it bad that the team I normally play is only worth 3 points ? 😬
I'd love to see an MVC3 tournament with the point system.
Virgil would be all 7 points LOL
Those already exist. It's been done several times, actually
@@ChrisAmingis Vergil is banned in MvC3 ratio actually lol
@@faqs515 oh wow thanks I actually had no idea
im so mad i cant play this game anymore
Same man... it fucking sucks
But you can via emulation pretty good too.
If you can get fightcade 2 and flydojo it is possible to play marvel 2 online.
Isnt nullbear or fightcade available to play the game?
@@Studioterrel what's flydojo
I wonder what a fighting game built with a point system in mind would look like. Its honestly a really cool concept, and i wonder how a game like that would be balanced.
It was done already. Capcom vs. SNK1. And frankly, it sucked (both the game overall and the system as it was implemented in CvS1).
The problem with designing a game with a rigid ratio system in mind - i.e., certain characters are "designed" to be stronger than others - is that what is designed seldom translates into reality. In the case of CvS1, you had characters ranked from Ratio 1 to Ratio 4, and you could have a total of 4 points, but design-wise, most of the best characters were actually R1. Or to be more specific, despite being "weaker", the R1s were not so weak that it was not a good idea to run them 99% of the time. Furthermore, a whole bunch of R1s had more total life than any other combination. So you had a lot of games that were just 4 R1s vs. 4 R1s that took forever.
There were a handful of R2s who were good - Boxer, Guile and Nakoruru (Nakoruru was so good she pretty much stomped out most of the cast), so eventually things changed to R1, R1, R2. But you virtually *never* saw serious R3s (all bosses, BTW) or R4s. They were simply not strong enough to warrant using fewer characters than the lower ratios.
For the record, Capcom released an update to CvS1 called CvS Pro that re-balanced the ratios, where the R1s were now *much* weaker than R3s/R4s were vastly stronger. No one played it seriously because CvS2 came out a mere two months after, but it was at least closer to a balanced idea of the original.
Nevertheless, having rigid character ratios sucked, because it meant that you couldn't have all your favourite characters on a team.
CvS2 fixed this idea by having "ratio edit", where you could now assign ratios (R1 to R4) to characters instead of them being fixed. Higher ratio characters had more life and did more damage. You still had 4 points to use but now had of maximum of 3 characters, which you got with R1/R1/R2.
So from a fun aspect, CvS2 was vastly better to CvS1. However, from a balance standpoint, CvS2 didn't fix the issue with CvS1 - some characters are just flat out better than others, so you had characters that were really strong at R1, so much so that it never made sense to use R3s or R4s. Thus, 99% of all teams were R1/R1/R2, usually (though not always) in that order.
So to answer your question: A game was built with the point system used here, and it was terrible in terms of balance.
The ratio system you see used for MvC2 here only works because the tiers and relative strengths of the characters have already been determined, and thus you can make a more fair assessment of what characters should be assigned to what ratio after the fact. This would not have been possible at the game's creation. Hell, it wouldn't even have been possible during the game's first year - a ratio system only really works when a game's tiers have been well established.
@@ShinUltima People forget that this only works with Marvel 2 because the META is 100% dead set in stone. Using this in say KOF XV would be disastrous.
All I could hear gambit saying was "credit card" when he spammed the throwing zone cards.
This is a smart idea, it forces players to actually come up with team variety instead of seeing TOP tiers all the time which is boring as fuck to me.
Starting a petition to get @Maximilian Dood to use his influence to get a message to Capcom and Disney to bring back marvel versus Capcom 2 for purchase with balance changes.
careful. balance changes is a stones throw away from "bug fixes"
@@MilkyCao we need but guesses too. Everyone let's make this happen. Get the likes up and hope it gets too Max.
This is such a good a simple idea. I'm someone who just loves seeing all the variety offered in games, so making people pick more than just god-tier characters is always more interesting.
MVC3 is even more unbalanced and broken than 2.
I wasn't the only one who thought that MvC2 was re released without X-Men characters because of that thumbnail right?
Neat idea, for sure! I think I would like to see some tournaments with these rules.
However, if you do make more of these videos, one thing I think I would suggest is to have something that shows the point breakdown of each team. Maybe just a chart in the top-left that could be added in post-production or something. Not everyone watching is going to intuitively know which characters belong to which tiers (myself, included).
I randomly tuned in when this was played on stream, but I didn’t know it was using a fanmade ratio match, so I thought max was just playing his mains.
Considering that MVC2 was my first arcade game that I played, it brings back a lot of memories and always excited to see more MVC2!
I always like pointed tier systems as it allows for a lot of customization. Not only can you increase/decrease the point values for individual characters (For balance reasons), but even increasing the overall cap by 1 can drastically change team comps.
There was a point ratio system like this in the Capcom vs Snk games wasn't there?
Yeah, but that mostly tie down to higher ratio = higher HP and damage
@@ComputerOyyy That was cvs2 where you could use everyone. CVS had ratios built in for the cast. Uasully bosses being 3, 4 being super bosses,. popularity chars being 2 and everything else 1.
What a dope idea for revitalizing a game that has settled into a comfortable meta. As a spectator I always found it kinda sad that with how many characters there are in MvC, only a handful are getting used usually.
What exactly is Max playing this on?
I don't see gamertags so it must be Fightcade.
Reminds me of how my friends used to play before it was brought to our attention how OP Sentinel and Storm were.
I wish that Marvel 2 gets an hd widescreen remaster with online
We had one.... 😭
Thank Disney and Fox for that...
LOVE the ratio idea!
Putting numerical weights on characters for team diversity is a sick idea. Love to see this more, and have it applied to other team games.
Hell that was good. Hope to see more!
Yup this needs to be a series! That was fun to watch!
I loved these, please bring more!
Always hyped to see more MAH-VEL!
Remember years ago when magazines and websites all lambasted the MvC2 soundtrack?
Yeah it ain't the usual butt rock and high energy sounds of most other fighters, but it's too chill to outright hate.
New and different = uncomfortable. Old and different = iconic.
Yes please make more videos of MvC, I love seeing you play this series and other marvel fighting games
Gotta pull out the old 360 for this one.
This looks like tons of fun.
This reminds me how DBZ Tenkaichi 3 was ahead of its time with the point system lmao
That ratio system is exactly what the game needs, hope some tournaments are played using that rule set. Its great not seeing the same several characters over and over again
3:40 "You son of-A bitch!"
Mario would be proud
This is great, I'd love to see more either of MVC2 like this or other games like this where you force people to work within the confines of a tier list so that characters that I HAVE NEVER SEEN PLAYED BEFORE like the cactus dude get showcased. good stuff.
That wonderful feeling when your team is safe from ratio rules! Felicia, Ken, Gambit, (also B.B. Hood, SonSon, Guile) time to show to show some fools these hands!
Ratio Chart huh? Damn that's an awesome idea XD
The ratio system is an awesome idea for this game. There won't be any balance changes and this makes low tier characters valuable in their own way.
Reminds me of what the competitive Pokemon community did with their Tier system
Love it, do more of these
Yo!!! More of these!!
Thought this was some MVC2 release news. Told myself I was done with that hopeless situation.
really dig this.
more ratio gameplay please!
The first few seconds got me wondering “what the dog doing?”
0:07 what da dog doin?
We dig it!
This is sick Max!
Max playing MVC2, perfection ♥️
didn't realize captain commando was that high a tier! usually its him, akuma and cable but suppose I could sideline cable for wolverine or something
Basically, some kind of gentlemen's rule? I can go behind this.
Ahhh, Roll, always in her own special tier six feet below everyone else
Always good to watch some mvc2
When Max goes to the hospital, he sees Doctor Ken Amingo. He uses his Kinetic Card to pay. His health insurance is under S.T.A.R.S.
this was hella fun to watch. I'd get me and my friends to play it but we're not at a high enough level where tiers matter
7:55 Ken be like "Don't worry about Akuma Max, I got you cuz"
The first fight the guy started with Hulk, Akuma, Captain Commando (2-2-4), which is 8, not 7 like the rules Max said should be lol
Please make more of this, I love MVC 2
This game always had the weirdest soundtrack that surprisingly worked
One of my favorite games on my dreamcast
This is my favorite stuff, that and online warrior!
Wassup Max? Good matches bro! I'd love to see more ratio matches! :)
Ratio MvC2 is awesome- makes the game totally fresh again.
Would love to see Max play more of this.
I would love to see this Ratio Rule at events, looks really intresting & makes you have to think about team dynamic. Plus characters that don't get a lot of screen time can finally shine
It's so fun not seeing Sentinel, Magneto, Cable and Storm in all these fights
Yes more of this please
12:03
Chicago punish
That dhc around 3 min was so smart
My old team when i was in arcades is exactly 7 (Hayato a, Strider b, Akuma g) and i got some really fun matches. Hayato is just okayish, but the rekka setup for a crossover or aerial rave to Plasma Field often saved me a few coins. Akuma and Strider were always good units.
2:59 that was insane
Digging that Jill/Gambit combo
I like how the team I have been running for years is exactly 7
Hayato, Charlie, Captain Commando
1, 2, 4.
Please do this again!
Ratio systems rock, please do way more of this.
I loved watching this. I had to look up that list to start doing that for myself. The game is lot more fun this way.
Really cool idea! Dig this!
10:31 what da dog doin?
Damn there's some people in that 2 point that I expected to be 3 pointers.
I love this. It's giving me those CVS2 vibes. I get to actually see more teams.
This type of point system was in dragon ball z budokai tenkaichi 3 where if you picked too strong of a character like gogeta or a high transformation like perfect cell you wouldn’t have much slots to add other characters to your team
I wish Max would put the original vod link. Looking for a specific vod on Twitch can be a nightmare