Fixing TF2's Worst Weapons - Engineer
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- TF2's weapons are generally unique and well balanced and fun to use. That said, there are a few that have slipped through the cracks and were left in a state that makes them either painful to play with or downright awful. But what if that wasn't the case? What if every TF2 weapon was equally good? Well, that's what I want to try to theorycraft by suggesting fixes for all of TF2's worst (and boring/underused) weapons. Remember that this is just for fun, but feel free to let me know what you think of my ideas!
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Outro music by liledix4: • 🎵 Graze the Roof Remix...
0:00 Intro and Explanations
0:48 The Pomson 6000
3:35 The Short Circuit
5:48 The Southern Hospitality
8:34 The "New" Weapons
10:58 Outro
Fixing weapons is back, again! Right now I'm working on Pyro and Sniper. Pyro has taken me a while since he has to many bad weapons to sift through, plus I'm deliberating whether I want to do a special video with him since I've considered talking more in depth about completely reworking my main for a while. Hoopefully these should all be fixed by the end of the year! - Hry
engineer only having 1 bad weapon has always been a strange case to me
oh MY GOD THIS THING BEING MILKED TO THIS DAY had always been a strange case to me
I wish I could pull stranges from a case
i wish i could pull cases from a strange
I wish i could case from a pull
I used to like this meme
Then hated it
I think it's looped back around now, it's aight.
The Pomson being able to penetrate nearby teammates would be a start.
Pause
Nice pfp
I’d love to penetrate the Pyro.
It used to have a penetration stat a long time ago. It is why it does not have it as an upgrade in MVM, because when the weapon got changed, Valve just kind of forgot to update the red headed stepchild of a mode to compensate.
@@kiracaroso
I know it could penetrate players, and buildings on release.
It just being able to penetrate nearby teamares, like other projectiles, would help just a bit with how often your own team blocks the projectile.
10:00 ah yes. +50% firing speed, and +25% firing speed.
TF2 Weapon generator moment
+75% firing speed; as it should be written (I’m agreeing with you; yes I get the joke)
If I remember correctly, Blue's balance change was a firing speed bonus and a reload speed bonus, so it seems he just had an oversight when pasting them here lol.
@@dzikidzikers4082
Pros: +50% max health, +55 max health, +25% health
Cons: -95% health
I vaguely remember there was a time in the game's balancing history where the Short Circuit's M1 did auto track at a certain range. And at that time it would only really be used to check for cloaked Spies. This is presumably why it doesn't do that anymore, because Spies have enough problems trying to stay cloaked as is. If their main target has essentially a low range tracker that auto reveals their position, there's barely a point to hiding.
all they'd have to do is make it so the weapon doesn't track cloaked targets like how sentries don't track them
Nice catch. I’d have to agree with Talullah that it should at least not target cloaked targets (although maybe cloakING targets should be fair game).
@@talullah1065 and disguises too
It was the m2 that auto tracked back then. There has never been a reason to m1
@@FrogAssemblyLineit never had an m2 back then. The short circuit having two seperate fire modes came with the re-work
The Southern Hospitalities main drawback (imo) is that, yes, the bleed on hit is underwhelming, but also the weapon has both a debuff and buff attached to the same playstyle. Its trying to both reward you AND punish you at the same time. With your first rework, you make it so the weapon has a longer range (and kept the bleed dmg) but also punishes the user for trying to make the most of that stat. Its redundant
i'd suggest at most 25% less and at least 10% less metal from with upgraded buildings it has 6 less extra hp per upgrade so a lvl 3 has 200 hp.
also halving metal regen means a lvl3 gives less than a lvl 1 dispenser. lvl1 metal regen is 40/5 seconds and is upgradded by 10 for every upgrade.
I think it's fine, the reworked weapon is more about support anyway, so the the actual attack becomes less important, but handy to have
This is what we call risk vs reward, the widow maker gives you unlimited shots: until you miss, you are punished for trying to make the most of the ammo on give back stat.
The only difference is this new southern hospitality is forcing you to have better game sense rather than the widowmaker forcing you to have better aim
Also the bleed stat is a softer punishment than say, Losing metal because bleed can be negated by healing soruces (such as a dispenser) if you set one up before hand, so it’s not that bad of a system
The SoHo is honestly just a very boring weapon, but it's far from bad. In fact it's actually pretty commonly used as a "defending-last" wrench in comp as it's essentially a straight upgrade to stock there as random crits are turned off. Honestly even in casual i don't consider it to be that much worse than stock as I don't take random crits into consideration so it's basically a stock reskin for the most part, which is why I think it's boring as all the other wrench unlocks have their unique abilities that make them stand out from the rest.
The main drawback is no random crits, random melee crits for engie and medic save your ass half of the time
For the Pompson I had an idea a while ago to have it raise your max metal reserve by a little bit, representing the space you save by not having to carry shotgun shells anymore. The whole "doesn't use ammo" thing is so unbelievably useless on Engie that I thought it would be nice to give it a reason to exist. Plus it gives it some nice synergy with both the Short Circuit and the Eureka Effect for kind of a cool retro sci-fi aesthetic.
not a bad idea
Honestly, with your redesigned pomson, I would use it as my main Engineer primary, even if it wasn't technically better than the stock shotgun
I think the way he redesigned the southern hospitality it could have been the opposite of the Jag instead
engineer's 200 reserve ammo on the pretty boy's would be utterly demented. ever since dane's stock pistol video and vorobey's various pistol-only runs, i've seen a huge uptick in pistol spam enjoyer engis, now imagine that but with the fire rate bonus. hilarious imo
As an engineer main myself that has played with a wrench that increases dispenser range, I feel it really doesn’t change the play style as much as you’d think, even with the reduced metal.
The Rescue Ranger's hit sound is not only extremely fun but also super useful for spy-checking, especially because of its very forgiving hit detection. So giving that to the Pomson would actually be a significant buff beyond just sounding cool.
So you're fixing bad weapons? Are you going to send them to school or something? Like an academy for bad weapons?
fun fact: the pomsons damage is comparable to that of the rescue ranger. yk, the support weapon that doesnt deal a lot of damage.
and yet playing it like a boat firing a slow torpedo down a choke and then an hour later getting a kill without even looking(even better if it was a crit) is so satisfying, along with the possibly enraged reaction of the person who got killed by such a shoddy weapon
Alternately, short circuit's m1 could delete projectiles too, only if you manage to hit them with a perfectly accurate cursor shot. Doing so would consume extra metal, but if you're good and there isn't tons of spam it can end up saving some metal.
That’s what it used to do at one point before the alt fire was added
@@C0DY420 Not quite to my recollection. Iirc it had a box of influence. I was proposing a hitscan line.
why do people never consider how fun or in this case unfun something is to fight against
YES! NEW "FIXING TF2'S WORST WEAPONS" VIDEO!
I LIKE THAT SERIES!
I think allowing Engineer to use the other Shotgun and pistol unlocks is a great idea. We could also throw in the Family Business since it also doesn't have any class restrictive stats. Hell I would argue that Pyro and Soldier should get it too and let Heavy use The Reserve Shooter.
At 10:03, Winger Rework 2 has duplicate stats of Firing Speed.
Reckon that one of the two was meant to be Reload Speed, right?
yeah, watch his video about rebalancing scout weapons
Glad to see you're still making this series, definitely one of my favorite tf2 video series
BLUE BURD MAKE TF2 VIDEO ONCE AGAIN!
I think the 2nd rework for the southern hospitality isn't a good idea. It seems like the downside of not dispensing ammo would mostly serve to confuse allies, since they won't know whether a dispenser has that trait unless they know the dispenser is made by an engie with that wrench.
There's a reason engie's dispenser changes visually with each upgrade, and it's to tell players how potent it is. (Same goes for the sentry, but not the teleporter since it's not as important to know.) Without adding a visual change specifically for the southern hospitality, this would mess that design up.
that can be fixed by giving the healing dispenser a different design. maybe remove the ammo from the compartment, double down on the medical equipment, and have a large + symbol on the paint job. that way teammates will expect extra healing but no ammo when they see it
it would have to be like the gunslinger and have its own dedicated building. personally, i find the design of "just make the dispenser heal more" a little uninspired, even if it could be effective. i also dislike how this breaks the flow of wrench interplay; you can't switch between this and the jag or eureka effect or stock without deleting your dispenser, which (assuming this makes engie healing truly viable) hinders the skillset and metagame of wrench swapping by encouraging engies to go full-time southern hospitality.
@@Underworlder5 and/or a different sound plays when within its range
theres two weapons engineer needs, a double barrel shotgun and a single action army revolver
double barrel could be like stock shotgun but a little unique
-35% spread
-4 rounds in the gun
alt fire: fire both barrels at once with + 65% spread(30% worse than stock shotgun)
So basically it'd be the HL1 shotgun mechanics?
Now that engie has come up, I've realized a problem with one of your proposed stats that you sometimes bring up. Reloading passively, while a seemingly fun and possibly balanced in how it's presented would inevitably shift one of tf2's core mechanics. Downtime between killing. It may not seem inportant at first, but imagine an engie blasting his rounds into a heavy, switching to his pistol and gunning down a medic, and immediately being able to do it again is more power than he probably should have.
(Looking back, equalizer reload on soldier's rockets would have been far worse. Imagine the airstrike spam)
how about making the automatic reload really slow, so you couldnt use it offensively but it could allow you to repair or construct buildings without worrying about reloading your weapons
@@-RandomStranger- i think focusing it on buildings is good. Maybe reload based on metal used on building, therefore making it still active in some way.
yes the airstrike spam that youd be able to get by shooting the airstrike, killing someone with your melee as the second slowest class in the game, then jumping again whichd save no time at all & be extremely risky. i do dissagree with his equaliser rework but thats just because he dissed the half zatoichi on soldier & completely missrepresented its use case.
you do realise that the passive reload is specifically slower right? 1 ammo per second.
also youd probably have enough ammo in the stock shotgun to do your example btw
@@artifactU "second slowest class in the game" you ever play roamer? No man who has ever rocket jumped would ever call it slow.
idea: different types of sentry for the engeneer. like one focused on distant enemies or one that only fires rockets... could be cool and add some interesting strategies
I'm thinking of having a sentry that fire rockets at level 1 so the engineer can rocket jump much faster. By not having to upgrade his sentry to level 3
An airstrike-like sentry which detects any player in a certain radius even through walls and sends slow, homing rockets after him which have 75 health and can be destroyed
i second this. a lot
I think adding the weapon share possibilities was a good move, hope to see more where applicable for the rest of these
I feel like a fun idea for the pompson is to also give it a charge attack, i imagine something like a big disco ball that drifts upward and just sprays projectiles everywhere as it does. Its probably not good and i doubt it would help an otherwise unaltered pompson, but i think itd be goofy and fun.
I feel like the extended placement range on the Southern Hospitality would lead to Delfy making a lot more videos showcasing out of bounds exploits, potentially ones people thought they'd already fixed too. Engineer mains and glitch hunters have already forced a LOT of fixes in geometry to keep exloiters from getting out of bounds, and extended freedom of placement will force numerous waves of patches, improvements and in general a lot of dev time if they want to keep Engineer mains out of places they shouldn't be.
I'm not saying it's a bad change, but there's a lot of potential for abuse by a number of bad actors.
Ngl once this series is over with I would be very interested to see a server run with all of these changes added in just to see how everything would work.
A passively reloading shotgun for this class is making me feel things. I need it.
What's crazy about the Pomson is that the cloak and uber drain is practically useless for the engineer. But is extremely annoying for the Spy and Medic. So it's a game mechanic that literally pleases nobody.
It's unfair to fight against and of no help to the shooter. It's game design that is so bad, it's genuinely impressive.
I think if the southern hospitality is going to change the function of the dispenser then it may as well also get a remodel too, in order to make it more obvious to other players what kind of dispenser it is
I've always thought that the Southern Hospitality should be able to increase the usages of Dispensers by making them heal and regen ammo more effectively, cost cheaper and extending the range of the healing beam to make it an alternative to the Eureka Effect and it's teleporter benefit
you're HERE TOO?!?!?!
Glad to see this series continued
Series idea: fixing popula maps and modes
The Short Circuit’s hit detection has always been a strange case to me.
I’m not entirely sure on the southern hospitality reworks. For the first one bleeds can stack making it quite easy to die to rapid fire weapons like pistols and SMG’s and for the second one, as a soldier main rockets can be spent quite fast and not being able to refresh them from the dispenser is major to the point where I can see people saying taking it will actively hinder your team.
if the pocket pistol had kept the "no fall damage taken" it would have been fun to have on engi for some gooffy ass sentry jumping
The southern hospitality could create a lot of exploits with the extra placement range. So it's a bit hard to implement into the game. But as an idea it's a creative new way for a wrench Stat
Great Blue attempting to maintain a consistent sequence for this series
what
bro the draining is the entire reason one would use the pomson
The drain mechanic is awful
and Teters a fine line between over powered and useless
In its current form yea, but reworking it to be a better weapon without the draining would still make it better
I thought you were just gonna say to rework the shortcircuit is just remove the primary fire, and make the secondary fire the primary fire
Love this series. As an engineer main I would love to have easier mobility, the wingler would be amazing as I tend to put my buildings in very wacky and unused spots, but it tends to be difficult as I have to rely on the Wrangler and T3 sentry, or lose a lot of belt from shooting into myself.
The pomson should be able to penetrate teammates. It's kinda ridiculous that it doesn't tbh. I never used it but as of now I feel its like the engineers version of "the original". An overall bad version with no upsides, but might be fun to main as it makes you a weird one. (I have a prof strange classic with 1k + kills lmao)
no dude this was super cool and I love the creativity. keep this up
I also think engi should have the family business along with soldier and pyro
please, please I am begging on my knees for this heavy only shotgun to be freed from the class that never uses it.
I very much would like more shells in my gun, please.
But then it wouldn't just be the family's business
it would be the public's business@@TrixterTheFemboy
I would also like to think that when soldier equips the family business it should have a small cosmetic change, where it's communist logo is scratched of.
Cry...heavy superiority@@TheDoc_K
i feel like the short circuit could be cool as an all around utility in all honestly, changing its primary fire to be its old alt fire and nerfing its current alt fire to maybe 75 metal a shot could make it an interesting weapon, still being able to damage while being for main utility in situations where a spare rocket or sticky happens to come to you or your sentry and you dont want to waste 65 metal on just one projectile
engineer redesigns have always been a strange case to me
I personally think the pompson should have more than one projectile. It's a shotgun after all, not a rocket launcher. Make it fire 6-8 small fast projectiles using the shotgun random spread mechanic. That way you don't have to have perfect aim to hit a target at mid range, and have an even higher chance to damage at low range. If we combine this with your stats too, it functions _like an actual shotgun_ but fancy.
with the southern hospitality giving more health
then will there be a northern unfriendliness giving more ammo?
Yes I do want all 4 shotgun users to have access to Family Business.
Short circuit M1 should be able to take out sappers, that would be useful.
I like the range increase for the Southern Hospitality, but disagree with the utility function. Almost all of Engie's melees are already ultility-focused, so I believe that giving the Southern Hospitality a small damage buff in addition to letting it destroy sappers in 1 hit at the cost of swing speed would give it a great niche as an offensive anti-spy weapon.
i love these types of videos and haven't seen any new ones like this so I was pleasantly surprised once this popped up in my notifications.
Finally the series is back
Babe wake up, new Great Blue video just dropped
FINALLY IVE BEEN WAITING SO MUCH FOR THIS! keep it up!
Since you didn't give the Pomson a second rework, I wanna suggest one. It is pretty wacky though. What if the Pomson worked like the Beggar's Bazooka? Keep the smaller clip size but make it so you need to charge it fully before firing 4 projectiles with a minimal deviation. Combine this with the new stats on your first rework and you get a nice area denial tool.
First video I’ve watched after my surgery, yay love these ❤
The first southern hospitality rework sucks imo. The bleed on taking damage downside would just encourage turtling, since taking basically any damage would force you to move away from your sentry to your dispenser. Either you leave your sentry unguarded while its being shot at or you can tank the sentry and most likely die there. Or you would use it with the rescue ranger at which point the increased range upside is pointless.
I'm okay with Engineer not having many weapons considering only one of them is truly bad. If given the choice, I'd prefer a small amount of solid weapons over a lot of really mixed ones.
Quality over quantity
I know, but for the love of God, he has THREE SECONDARIES.
0:01 if tf2 had no bad weapons then Fish on a stick on a stick would work in McDonalds
Ever thought about hosting a private server where all your suggested changes to the weapons in this series are in effect?
An idea I've always had for the Southern Hospitality is similar to your redesign, but instead of more range and faster heal, the dispenser is replaced by a larger and more durable model that can overheal to quick-fix levels. I also had an idea to go with it where it gains an alt-fire similar to the amputator where the engineer can (persistant) taunt with the dispenser to allow it to overheal to the "normal" limit but draining the dispenser's health while doing so, but this might be stepping on Medic's toes too much while also being too strong of a pair with the rescue.
Similarly, I had an idea of an alt-fire for the Pomson that "overcharges" buildings you are aiming at, improving capabilities but giving a health drain.
Big fan of the Southern Hospitality rework
Been waiting a while and I can say it’s been worth the wait!
id be down to join a sever trying out the weapon sharing concept. it sounds like alot of fun actually
I’d Love to see the Southern Hospitality be turned into a sorta “gunslinger but for level 3’s” making it a more offensive wrench, but allowing you to use level 3s
I like the new weapon ideas in the video, especially for classes lacking weapons
I had a concept for the Southern Hospitality that made it so it did more damage on hit, causes bleed on hit, and when you smack your building it operates 1.5x faster (sentry gun fires faster, dispenser heals and generates metal faster, and teleporter recharges faster) for 5 seconds on hit with the downside of a much slower swing speed
essentially making it a sorta reverse Jag
I always imagined the Southern Hospitality as a more aggressive melee replacement
something to reward a Engineer brave enough to charge into melee combat but with some utility
cause there have been several times where as a Engineer (without the gunslinger equipped) I charged directly into a group of enemies and got away with a couple cheeky kills either before getting killed or without getting killed
8:03 okay your changes for the melee weapon for Engie I actually like.
I love this concept keep it up with new weapon transfers
All things considered, Engineer might be the best balanced class in terms of unlocks. The pomson is weak and the wrangler shield is a little too good, but other than that, every unlock is in a perfect state IMO. Gotta commend Valve for this.
Short Circuit primary fire should just be removed. Any buff makes the pistol a lot less viable. Even if you try to compensate your primary fire buff with a secondary fire nerf, the only thing that accomplishes is making the weapon less unique.
It's totally fine to have a slight side-grade like the Southern Hospitality. It reminds me of the Iron Bomber, Panic Attack, and Original in that regard. I don't think it needs a rework.
soutjern hospitality
ponsom 6
I really wanna hear your thoughts about the short circuits alt fire, cause man is it frustrating to deal with against established nests.
Overall great video!
Just sat down to lunch on a sunny patio and there’s a new great blue video to watch - today is a good day.
I was first introduced to the Short Circuit through Fawful's Minion's top 9 worst TF2 weapons video
Back before it had an alt fire (it was on that list because he just hated using it)
On the Winger and pocket pistol on engie, i think it should be in the form of reskinned versions that match engineer’s aesthetics. maybe having the reskin winger also gives him specialized boots that allow him to jump higher.
Reserve shooter can be added just fine.
And on the topic of more weapons for engineer, yeah there needs to be more weapons that change how his buildings work. for example, 2-way teleporters. Maybe downside is that they recharge slower.
Short Circuit's shots should arc into the floor before disappearing, making it easier to see what the actual range is. Go up, and then sharply down. Looks nice, good gamefeel.
Is there a server that implements all your suggestions and balances, because I'd love to see this in action, especially with the engi having access to the reserve shooter.
I would love to see "fixing engineers overpowered weapons" and it being 7 hours long
He has like 2 of them.
The southern hospitality goes from bringing “southern hospitality“ to bringing both the southern AND the hospitality
i liked the addition of "new" weapons that you included in this video
Thank goodness, I love this series.
One could make the Southern Hospitality be the damage wrench, with bleed and extra damage ( around +25%), at the cost of very slightly lower swing speed (-15%), which would change basically nothing in combat, but reduce its effectiveness when used to repair, upgrade, etc. Great Blue's ideas for the Southern Hospitality could (and should), be entirely new weapons, not even necessarily in the form of a wrench.
One shouldn't take out an expected functionality like getting ammo from a dispenser at any cost. Make the downside maybe require double the metal required to build and/or upgrade the dispenser (switching wrenches like Eureka would destroy the dispenser just like switching to/from gunslinger destroys the sentry)
Always a good day when you upload!
I've always had the idea where you could give the pompson the damage removes sappers trait, and it already would be more balanced with the building damage penalty, of course a few other tweaks would be needed though
short circuit should have extended range and return ammo on hit with primary fire like the widowmaker, making it a good metal farming tool for aggressive engineers or repairing attacked nests
Problem with the dispenser change is you'd need a different dispenser model to signify it wouldn't give ammo.
That pomson rework is honestly kinda godly. And i'm hard to please so you know your onto something!
finally being on brand and talking about nests
The wrench needs either: Spy's bleeding from this weapon stay visible as if their cloak is drained when moving OR forces Spy's to decloak on hit if they are invisible.
I would also give the SH extra damage and the ability to destroy sappers in 1 hit at the cost of swing speed
I had a idea for a redesign mainly built for engies not getting punished for staying with his building. (yeah turtling is bad but it is a play style that benefits the teams for a majority of gamemodes) also im basing it around the vitasaw
Southern Hospitality
Bleed on hit
Every kills provides a munition pack (not ammo pack)
On death engineer respawns with increased metal reserve (a max of 300)
This allows engineer to start building a sentry dispenser and 1 tele allowing him to rush back to the point and setting up a nest again. (i know this could be compared to the eureka effect but comparatively you have to leave your building each time to set up this allows engie to set up a sentry dispenser and exit in one go or even start getting a building to lvl 3 faster)
Something that could help this series in the future is to give a quick rundown of a weapon's current stats and/or gimmicks before fixing them
I know you show them on screen, but hearing you explain them briefly might help with context (plus, I'm not as familiar with every single weapon as you are)
just make southern hospitality do more damage to enemies on hit
the souther hospitality outclasses the stock wrench in situatios like defending last
Thats how sidegrades work. It would be better on last in worse in most other situations. I believe the issue is more that the stock wrench is underwhelming rather than an issue with specific unlocks.
@@FrostburnICS the eureka effect outclasses stock and jag outclasses stock when ur stuff isint lvl 3
Given that the point of the Southern Hospitality was to be the more offensive wrench (between the bleed damage and the Strange rank-ups of this specific wrench being based on melee kills), I thought you'd delve into a rework that buffed the engineer's survivability and offensive capabilities.
Kinda like how the Gunslinger does with it's extra health, but without the benefits of having a disposable mini sentry. A variant playstyle that lets you venture a little further away from your established nest
I had an idea very similar for the Southern Hospitality a while ago that likewise had double dispenser range but at the cost of capping out your sentry's level at 2. This would facilitate the Engineer placing the dispenser in new and interesting places (particularly near the front lines) at the cost of making him a weaker defensive force. This one's for the engineers who don't like to use the gunslinger on offense, I think.
I don't know if we would ever get this but something I always thought would be a cool weapon for engie would be a reverse pompson 6000 or rescue ranger. Having a primary that does more damage to building and like building like items would give engie utility not seen before. Although engineers do construct a lot of thing they also work with deconstructing existing building or features. So an interesting rework for the pompson 6000 would be that it does damage to sapper and engi buildings. Taking three hits with the pompson to kill a sapper (similar to the jag), and giving him the possibility to deal with mini or full sentries. I still find it odd the the engineer does not have a weapon that deals with enemy sentries even though its the exact same thing they build.
Cant wait for the hour long medic video!
"I hope a thousands spies descend onto your nest"
D:
YESSSSSS THE SERIES IS BACK LETS GOOOO
I think the Southern Hospitality should do more healing for buildings to quickly repair them while under enemy fire, acting sort of like an inverse to the Jag's lower repair rate.
My favorite more unique changes to make the southern hospitality more unique