After ranting in so many MLB videos, I have officially destroyed my microphone. LOL. I'll be getting a new one very soon. Thanks for watching my video, dudes! Also, I recommend listening to this album while looking at the stars at night: czcams.com/play/OLAK5uy_lOBp2mPxNulohlUpAXaJpPy8MI8cLQS4E.html
I use to like his character. A single father learning how to take care of his son, slowly realizing that his Hawkmoth shit wad putting adrian in danger. But then it was like the show needed a villian, (someone to use in the what if eps too, they couldnt give him a conflict in those about his son being chat noir since the only point was to show adrian and marinettes relationship n stuff) they needed people to feel sorry for chat noir/adrian.
And We all know someone with unhealthy obsession: Marinette. I think If she realises that Adrien is sentimonter she would do the same for Adrien. she will try to fuse both Miraculous just to make Adrien fully human. Because in her eyes him being a sentimonter is something imperfect, something she has to fix. Just like Gabriel trying bring Emilie back to life. Ok maybe i’m overeacting but imagine that scenerio Adrien in Emilie situation and Marinette in Gabriel situation. I mean it’s not impossible
no really, a lot of stuff in good stories got writted by pure share coincidence and it wasn't an attempt of the writers to begin with. A good writer will monopolised on this "happy accidents" to create a better story... which it isn't this case
i love how an adult psychopath is viewed as a sympathetic villain, but an emotionally abused teenager (*cough cough* chloe *cough*) is viewed as irredeemable. i mean come on thomas -_-
I would not call him a sympathetic villain just because he has a motivation, unlike this video. As for Chloe, she is nowhere near as evil to be redeemed from, just a childish, spoiled brat.
@@pkmntrainerdee6153 RIGHT? Yet this video needed him to be a "sympathetic villain" so as to complain about him being so *villainous* and a "bad parent."
@@Bezaliel13 I agree with what you're saying, but wdym by "in this video"? Cyrus is only saying this because that's what the writers and creators of the show is saying about Gabriel, not what he personally thinks, obviously. I mean he keeps saying what he truly feels throughout the whole video?? We're _supposed_ to feel bad for Gabriel, and he's supposed to be "sympathetic" but we all know that's not the case bc of all the reasons listed in this video. And the creator is always trashing on Chloe and saying she's "irredeemable" which is why Cyrus said this as well. And he absolutely is a bad parent after all the things he's done to his son! The writers have no idea what their doing with this show, it's all over the place, and yet nothing at the same time! (well, I don't think their to blame entirely, Thomas Asstruc is most likely to blame, he's the worst!) These characters, their stories and everything in this show is just wasted potential :(
Gabriel Agreste: *Neglects his children, terrorizes Paris, etc* Writers: Nah, he is sympathetic Chloe: *Literally only bullies people.* Writers: THAT WOMAN IS IRREDEEMABLE AND WORSE THAN THE CORPORATION OF NESTLE-
Don't forget In the Shanghai special Gabriel and Nathalie were involved in the actual murder of Fei's adoptive father and we don't see any correlation as to why he did this for Emilie so it seems as if he took someone's life all for the sake of lusting after power. If at the end they do show him in a sympathetic light then shouldn't they do the same for Chloe.
@@baconboiii67 Lila is a pretty terrible person too, but Marinette is way too flawed and Thomas AssTruck is a hypocrite by protecting her and crying to fans about how unfair we are and he blocks ppl who criticise him.
Fun Fact: The creator of mlb left for awhile so that gave the writers time to write Chloe's redemption arc, but then the creator came back and nerfed all of Chloe's character development
He nerfed everything. The writers retconned everything in Season 3. Don't fall for it. Don't take it to heart. It's a scam. Ignore this blatant sabotage.
It would be a good idea if they revealed that the Butterfly Miraculous slowly distorts his users mind making Gabriel less emotional and more obsessed with bringing back Emily, that way he can be a symphatetic and a ruthless villain
Doesn't exaclty feel fitting with nuru (kwami of that miraculous), as usually after the transformation the character of Miraculous user and its qwami seemed to mix together (weirdly Gabriel's and NAtalie's never seemed to be the case) -and that features seems nothing like nuru...
I feel so bad for the s2 writers, they gave Chloe a redemption arc, they tried to make Gabriel more sympathetic, only to see how all of this went to trash in the next seasons thanks to Thomas Astruc. Very sad. Also, no backstory for him and Emilie? Y'all this show is soo cursed 😢
If they would ever give Adrien or Gabriel screentime, then we would learn more about the Agreste Family backstory. But no, the writers concentrate on Marinette when she has a basic life with 0 depth, and the show gets repetitive.
It also begs the question: does he truly love his son for HIM, or is it merely because Adrien is the very last living reminiscent and symbol of his and Emile's love and nothing more?
He did. We saw the episode. He was hoping for Adrien to be Cat Noir so he could be safe. He was alone with no one to perform for. He loved him and the writers destroyed that.
I know he is supposed to be someone we should feel sympathetic to,but it kinda sucks how they are expecting us to be sympathetic towards a guy who was redy to murder thousands of people just to get the miraculouses of Lady and cat.... sometimes I feel like he is just doing it for the fun of it,and not to save his wife...He isn't a tragic villain,but a tragic attempt at writing a villain.
I feel that Gabriel's "excuse" for abusing his son is that when he finally rewrites the world, he creates one in which Adrien was never abused, so his treatment of the current Adrien will be nullified. ... which is all shades of disturbing.
@@sh4dowperson Probably Nox. Except Nox had the sort of excuse of being genuinely mentally unwell and delusional to some extent that made him less personally vile.
@@MillyKKitty To be honest, when I was watching Wakfu my stupid ass didn’t see the problem with Nox’s plan. He’s not traveling back in time, but reversing time so even though he killed a bunch of people that timeline would get erased. But then he only went back 30 minutes instead of 300 years and I was like oh that’s why it’s bad but it was too late for me to take him seriously as a villain.
so let me get these writers straight.... Chloe: put a train full of people in danger to receive love and affection specially from the one person who legit fucking stood up and left her when she was a little kid/toddler (+ had another kid while being away and was maybe more involved with her for longer than her) and the one other teen she admired to be like = unredeemable, evil, will never be a true hero Hawkmoth: Grown ass man who caused the apocalypse twice by abusing the fuck out of his 14 yr old child for 'the sake of his wife' while also causing daily destruction in paris (and if it wasn't for the restart button ladybug has most likely would also have a bodycount higher than the population there) = Sympathetic, a grieving father trying his best UnU)!! yeah no I am calling bullshit
Gabriel is kinda dumb when you realize all he had to do to bring back wifey was to give someone the power to resurrect dead people and have them go into his basement and do the thing.
It was understandable that Gabriel was cold towards his son, he was so focused on bringing back his wife that he overlooked his Adrien. There were instances where it was clear that although he is cold, he deeply cares about Adrien and he doesn't want to hurt him. He wants to bring back Adrien's mother after all, so he was doing it for Adrien's sake as well and Adrien is what's left of Emily. I think it was Cat Blanc that completely ruined it for me. It was the episode that made me go, wait what? I thought he cared about his son?! And from there on Gabriel was shown as more and heartless and the sympathy for him just went out completely...
I really don’t understand why people treat Akumatizing as this Super Evil Unforgivable act. Oh he Akumatized his Son he gave him more Super Powers that unforgivable. Like Come on how this any different than anyone else he done this with. They still have the Will to disobey him if they want.
@@KavinCatastrophe it's not that simple to disobey, if you've noticed when he akumatized his son it was done in the worst times for Adrien to resist, he was having a mental breakdown after discovering that his mom is kept undergroud hawkmoth being the one behind it AND Gabriel being hawkmoth (not to mention the theory of him being a sentimonster makes him obey against his will easier if it's true due to the amoked object).
@@pen_gui He didn’t have the ring at the time and yeah it is hard to resist but not impossible. Adrien was clearly conflicted on helping his father or helping Ladybug. But it clear akumatizing is like a deal being made so Adrien agree to kind of help his father save his mother it only when confronted with ladybug he regretted that decision and couldn’t choose. Every time people gets akumatized they are saying YES in their sadness,grief, or anger as an agreement.
Thomas hates morally grey characters, period. He just wants to have bland characters and not make them multidimensional and complex. Gabriel could have been a great villain with great motivation, but now his motives are becoming more and more ridiculous as show goes on.
As with all the the characters, he destroyed them when Season 2 tried to make them more than one dimensional traits established first episode. Gabriel, Chloe, Natalie, Lila, and so many more. Any interesting plot thread, they ignore. Don't fall for the retcons of Season 3. It's a scam.
Season 1 and 2 are good but season 3 and 4 aren't. I feel like he should've been defeated already but they release so many pointless episodes. I really hate it. I get tired of the same super villians and I think we should have a new hack moth or miraculous holder by now and in this final he still isn't defeated and it upset me
I will never get over the fact that the episode "Gabriel Agreste" wasn't a flashback episode. Sure, Felix returning was cool, but 50% of the episode's plot was so pointless and repetitive by having Marinette failing to confess as if we haven't seen it for the 100th time. Episode "Felix" would've also been a good episode to be clear with the audience about Emilie's death, but no, let the theorists do the show writers' job for them, because I swear if you ever had any question about the show, you can never rely on the show to tell you shit. I heard that after the 5th season, the main story will be complete and I believe we have 2 seasons left before the show ends. The same applies to Lila as well; we barely know anything about her and like I said, everything that is being said about her is through theory videos.
yes i also thought that the episode "Gabriel Agreste" would be a flashback episode - but no. Then I hoped that the 100th episode would be a flashback episode and I'm really disappointed. With these two episodes they would have had the perfect opportunity to finally explain what happened to Emelie, but they didn't use it! The 100th episode was supposed to be something new and a flashback episode would have been perfect for that, but no! Instead we get one of the most illogical and worst episodes ever!!🙄😠
It is painful to watch these show without a clear explanation.You know what I know these is a Shock for most people but I think I would rather watch the worst anime ever made than see this show.Because at least they give viewers accurate reasons for their action.
The expectation: this is gonna be about how gabe and emilie were got miraculous Reality: Just showing a shitty infiltration from Creepynette & humiliation to Chloe who actually do the right thing in the episode. Soon or later, people will realize and saying Marinette is problematic characters as same as SpongeBob and Jerry the mouse
Santa: What do you want for Christmas young girl. Girl: A dragon Santa: c'mon be realistic Girl: Gabriel to be a good father, and Chloe to be a hero again. Santa: What color do you want your dragon.
You know what I hate. When people say Gabriel loves Adrien. He doesn't. I get abusers can love thier victims but still abuse them, but Gabriel does not care about Adrien. If he did, he would have tried more to keep him safe. I don't care if in risk he tried making his son leave before he started his masquerade on Paris, kind actions towards someone doesn't mean you love them. Look at Mother Gothel,she fed and raised Rapunzel lovingly for 18 years. Gothel shows kindness to Rapunzel but never loved her. Gabriel is emotionally abusive and so controlling. If Adrien is a sentimonster, his cruelty would reach a new high. Adrien would have to listen to everything his dad wants and his dad doesn't care if Adrien doesn't want to do it. Abuse doesn't grow overnight. Adrien was being abused even before his wife died. It's implied that Adrien was never allowed to make friends, got the same lame pen for about three years and has no childhood dream. I believe since Adrien is finally getting some freedom, he starting to see awful is dad is. If Gabriel really loved Adrien, Cat Blanc wouldn't have happened. Don't come at me with "Oh its a different timeline" no is really not. It's just what would happen in the future if Adrien ever figured out Ladybug's identity. It happened also in Ephemeral. Gabriel just straight up akumatized his son without a second thought. Like yes, because loving parents do jump on the best opportunity to manipulate and control their kid for their own gain. Loving my ass. Gabriel sees Adrien like an extensions of himself (like a narcissist), the way he keeps saying Adrien is perfection, he sees what he like about Adrien as perfection but hate when he doesn't have control over his son or hates what he doesn't consider good enough from Adrien. He wants Adrien to be perfect, his own way and nothing else. He loves the idea of Adrien and not Adrien himself. No loving parent would like an image or idea of their child, they would most likely want their kid to be themselves honestly. I get Gabriel doesn't have to be the best parent but it's evident he doesn't care one bit. I wish he was kept as neglectful but still loving dad but he wasn't, he just got worse and worse.
Gabriel 100% is the kind of parent who gets a kid to further himself. Adrian is a free labor model who brings in money for Gabriel's fashion. That's all his use for Gabriel atm. Which. Yikes.
i guess I was holding on to the fact that he was "a good parent" because my parents are similar, the moment they don't have control over us they stop us from doing the activity that gave us some sort of control.
I think he was supposed to be a sympathetic villain until season 2. I think that’s what writers were aiming for. But they changed him from a sympathetic villain to a classic cartoon villain in season 3, right after Astruc took over the story telling. I honestly feel sorry for the poor soul who went through the pain of writing season 2(Chloe’s arc, Gabriel’s Kong episode, Master Fu also visiting Cat Noir about power up food) only for Astruc to walk all over it cause he though train wreck drama style story telling is likely to attract more eyeballs, even though it’s a kids show.
The thing is when you do more and more evil Stuff,you will gradually become evil,it's like lieing,for example you lie one day then again you lie tommorow,and then lie Everyday,gradually you will become a liar who can't live a day without lieing,same thing is going on with Gabriel,akumatising people Everyday has corrupted his mind,he has had done more and more evil and gradually his mind has become corrupted
Exactly! He was! If we're not hating S3 and S4 Chloe for the blatant retcon, we should extend that courtesy to Gabriel. Ugh, everything would have been so much better if Season 2's writers had control of Miraculous.
Abusers always use the “this is what I do for you. I love you. This is what you deserve” excuse. This is what they know. That’s it. So as a villain, they did a good job showing what abusers say, unintentionally, of course.
I think my biggest frustration is that the writers are trying to make Gabriel like Mr. Freeze in backstory but characterize him like how Spectacular Spiderman characterized Norman Osborn and in action he's somehow worse than Norman (and Norman literally broke his own sons leg while he had an overdose and passed out to frame him as the Goblin) due the fact that Gabriel is treated as sympathetic cause "mY wIfE iS dEaD" (like he didn't exploit his own sons weakness's to control him more than once)
@Emo Gamer R yeah that's my problem. The writers are trying to make both of those things work (Norman's personality with Mr. Freezes back story) but it doesn't. You either have a deplorable villain or a sympathetic one but the writers can't decide on which so they do both and as you can see. It's garbage
He's not a sympathetic villain by any means, nor is he a well-written character (Which is almost every character in this show), but I must say that he wasn't wrong about one thing: That Adrien's friends aren't a good influence. I mean, they encourage Marinette and enable her to stalk and obsess over his son. And we're supposed to be rooting for them and believe that they're 'good friends' for doing such a thing 😑 (Although, it adds more to Gabriel's hypocrisy in that he also allows LILA to hang out with Adrien just because he had an alliance with her... an alliance that was barely touched upon because a certain someone hates Chloe's guts so much that he was busy making her as unlikable as he can that he almost forgot that Lila exists)
Everyone in the school besides Nino and Marinette barely knows Adrien. When has Alya or Marinette’s other friends talk to him without Marinette around.
@@Sparklecakes13 Umm just making sure for that reason its still ok to convince someone to stalk em? To invade their privacy? There's also one thing that they could've did and that's asking..
actually Juleka is writen perfectly, like she is Thomas's favourite. Julerose get the most screentime (not counting love square) and development, Juleka got 4 eps for herself( refleka/doll, crocoduel, guiltrip), beautiful, has flaws, best Kwami and outfits (both normal and Purple Tigress)...
@@Sparklecakes13 The fact that they encourage Marinette's behavior towards Adrien means that they're not treating him well because they don't consider his feelings on whether he likes Marinette or not. And even if he did, that doesn't give them the right to encourage her stalkerish tendencies.
Lets be real here, Felix was just vibing in London most of the time, visited paris 3 times and made more of an impact on the plot, had more interesting reasons, didnt have a brain as smooth as gabe. Chloe is ruined at this point but I still hold hope for Felix to stay consistently awesome. And Lila to step up already and give Nooroo a more competent owner.
Felix has an impact on the plot? He has interesting reasons? Ha! We don't even know what he wants. We don't know what's important about those rings, or what he was doing in Gabriel Agreste. It meant nothing. All he is is smart. Nothing more. Don't be a hypocrite. 😂
@Bessie Burnet we only saw Felix like only 2 times or something and yet it is still going on so it is normal that we still don't know what he is exactly up to but we had frickin Gabriel for 4 seasons, do you get it?
9:18 “Gabriel hates Adrien” Knowing now that Adrien existence potentially killed Emilie as she used the peacok miraculous to create him, that statement hits harder and is so close to be true..
//// s5 leaks Just like colt fathom .. he created Felix not aware of the consequences and hated his son when he found out he was the reason for the sickness. Messed up tbh
I think Gabriel is the perfect metaphor for insanity. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. What does Gabriel do 24/7?
It's like the writers are Fighting in two different factions : One that wants Gabriel as Sympathetic and one that wants him as irredeemable. I have the suspicious that fandom was starting to like too much Gabriel and understanding him too much to the point they had to say something like "NONO HE'S THE VILLAIN! HE WANTS TO DESTROY THE WORLD AND HATES HIS SON SO STOP LIKING HIM!"
Gabriel was sympathetic. He really was. But it's just like witth Chloe, you know. He's in the exact same boat as Chloe is with the writer's treatment of them. He was getting depth in season 2, just like Chloe, he was becoming something more. He just wanted to bring his wife back. He showed fear and remorse at the idea of Adrien being Cat Noir. We all saw that episode. He wanted Adrien to be safe, he wasn't some opportunistic villain. But just like they did with Chloe's development, they spat on Gabriel's development and retconned it completely in the next season. Making him not care if Adrien is Cat Noir, and making his goal with the Miraculouses more comically nefarious. He wanted his wife back to life, but apparently he now wants to reshape the universe? Where did that come from? Gabriel is just another victim of Astruc coming back to destroy everything Season 2 did right, a victim of Astruc not wanting his characters be anymore than the one dimensional trait we know them for. Just like Chloe. I can't hate Gabriel when it was there, but then they just decided to blatantly go against what they set up for no reason. Just like I can't hate Chloe for being horrible now. It's a sabotage of his own series. Astruc is just keeping it running on the spot on a treadmill, and with Gabriel is really shows. He's only being a more dramatic villain to fight in this series because it needs to be interesting, but it's still the same old monster of the week format. Wouldn't be a problem if he didn't have lore and motive, and connected to Adrien. But he does, and Astruc doesn't do anything with it. We don't know crap about Emilie, why should we care about her resurrection? As well as the fact the Miraculous duo aren't anywhere close to finding and defeating him. The only attempt to advance that was the Collector, and that was shot right down. Annoying for me as my first episode. And what about everything we saw in Feast?! The Miraculous writers are sitting on a goldmine, and they'd rather have the surface dirt instead.
Babe, this is a brilliant comment. You know? At this point I would believe if someone says to me that they’re sabotaging every deep character (Chloe, Gabriel, etc.) because of two reasons: 1.- That would give them the attention Asstruc only wants for his virtual daughter (Marinette) 2.- If Gabriel or Chloe or anybody else is actually a good person inside, they would be good to Adrien. They already are close people to him AND GOD FORBIDS ANY OTHER PERSON IS GOOD TO ADRIEN, cause we all know that Marinette “is the only one that understands Adrien” 🙄
Personally I think Gabriel's current motivation and irrational decisions like trying to destroy entire world, without thinking about his son could be excellently explained If the writers made him unhealthy obsessed over Emilie like Marinette is to Adrien. I know in this scenario I'm putting away concept of sympathetic villain and It couldn't appear in show for young kids, but think about it. Under façade of normal and loving family Gabirel is madly in love with his wife and nothing more matters to him, so when Emilie dies, he's completely devastated and promises himself to bring her back no matter what, or who he have to sacrifice. In this scenario Adrien is nothing more, but constant reminder of dead wife, so he want to keep him close and treats him like his property, a really important one, but still nothing but a thing. That explains why in the time of decision, he doesn't hesitate to use Adrien, Natalie, or anyone for his obsessive love. But for this to work we would need many literal hints and a few flashback to flesh out unhealthiness of his affection. Also it could be magnificent way to redeem Marinette. When Gabriel's reasons and obsession is showed to heroes, ladybug realizes her mania over Adrien was wrong and can lead to terrible consequences, and finally she let's it go, to build up real healthy relationship.
holy crap, this means they're going the One Piece route where the protagonist and the antagonist are the same but different honestly, if the last season is all about Marinette overcoming her flaws and learning to let go, to contrast her character development with Gabriel's lack there of, it'd totally make up for all the creepynette moments
Don't take the rewriting the world motive to heart. They're just ruining his motivation to be comically nefarious and have an illusion of danger eith the Miraculouses. That was not how it was set up to be. That is a retcon out of nowhere.
This would be bone chilling wish this was the case it can be applied to characters like lila and Marinette they are the 2 different sides of the same coin
Your description reminds me of Viego from League of Legends. He too was obsessed with bringing his wife from the dead and was ready to sacrifice the entire world. Interestingly his wife, once he put the pieces of her soul together, resented him for using their love as a tool to hurt others and not letting her rest. It would be amazing if Emily as well would hate Gabriel for putting so many lives in danger (but knowing Miraculous' writer that probably won't happen)
At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if Gabriel’s reason for being evil is becoming less about Emilie and is more about because he’s enjoying it more and more 🤦♀️
So Chloé is an emotionally abused child that's completely neglected with barely any good parenting. Yes she would be a bully because there wasn't much positive influences in her life. I could understand why she did the things she did and I have sympathy for the character. Gabriel just lost his wife but ends up abusing their son. It doesn't seem like he actually loves his son just wants to possess as well as hurt him. The fact the writers want him to be seen as sympathetic while characters like Chloe are seen as straight up evil due to the writer hating blonde girls is weird to me.
I feel like he could've been a good villain if it wasn't for the fact that he's badly written. Being sad about the death of a loved one and being willing to do anything to bring them back is a very understandable motivation. And still caring about your son makes you very complex together with the motivations. But the issue is that he stops caring about his son when he finds out that he is chat noir. And he also wants to use the miraculous to create a new universe. Like, what?! Anyway, the way he's written is disappointing
And whats pathetic to me is Gabi wants to create a new universe just to have his wife in it like what? Why destroy a universe and make a new one with ur wife in it literally destroy a universe, KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE for one person like someone please explain to me 🗿
It would be wayyyyy better if Gabriel needed all the miraculouses instead of two, what with one having time powers and all. He just needed them all to bring back his wife. Also give him some DAMN standards
Gabriel is best when he cares for Adrien, it adds a lot to him as a character, and any moment where he _at least_ seemed to care was a great moment for him but, that was ruined by _"Chat Blanc"_ which tosses that out the window, he went from caring about Adrien to willingly tossing Adrien aside for Emilie, and not caring for him in the slightest, it ruins every time he says he's doing it for _"their"_ family, and for _"us"_ by making the multiple people he's referring to _only_ himself, and Emilie... _not_ Adrien... even if it _was_ for Adrien, he'd still be a bad father for not consulting his son about basically _everything_ regarding Emilie... Adrien doesn't care if his mother is gone, _not to say he doesn't care at all,_ he just wants his father, Adrien has had to deal with his grief alone, and Gabriel has entangled himself in his own grief to the point where he's basically blinding himself from everything else, he doesn't seem to realize that Adrien is upset that he rarely gets to see him, and rather thinks he's doing what's best for Adrien by buying him things, and getting him the best education for things like fencing. Child neglect is still neglect, and to be exact it's _"Emotional Neglect",_ which has an example that goes like this _"Emotionally neglectful parents usually have no idea they neglect their children's emotions."_ which seems to be exactly what Gabriel does... the guy couldn't even bother to get Adrien a _birthday_ gift. This wouldn't have been _such_ an issue if Gabriel perhaps went through some sort of development like perhaps Emilie is running out of time, and he ends up willing to use his son, that isn't to say he doesn't care for him but, he gets to the point where he's desperate enough to use Adrien for the sake of their _"family",_ and perhaps he even knows what he's doing is wrong or, hitting the point of no return but, can't find it in himself to stop due to his inability to get over his grief but, that just _isn't_ the case sadly.
There’s multiple types of a villains. I’ll be discussing two of them. 1. The Psychopath This is the type of villain that wants power, control, that wants to destroy the world and rule it their way. This type of villain doesn’t really have a reason to take over the world besides being power hungry, they don’t have an interesting backstory, they just want control. They don’t have the emotion sadness, they’ve never even experienced it. They don’t have a weakness, they’re ready to destroy/kill whatever and/or whoever keeps them from achieving their goal(s). That’s why they’re called “The Psychopath”. 2. The Sympathetic Villain (aka the one we’re supposed to feel sorry for) This is the type of villain that wants power, control and/or revenge and/or (rarely) wants to destroy the world and rule it their way. But this type of villain has an interesting backstory and a reason to be evil. Their motive can be very interesting and intriguing. It can be from childhood trauma, the hero or someone once being their friend but then leaving them or betraying them and more. They have experienced the emotion sadness and that broke them, they still have the sadness in them but they try not to show it. They have a weakness, they won’t destroy/kill whatever and/or whoever keeps them from achieving their goal(s). That’s why they’re called “The Sympathetic Villain”. The mistake that the writers did is trying to combine these two and it doesn’t make sense. I think Hawkmoth was first trying to be written as a Sympathetic Villain at first, we were supposed feel sympathy for him. He was a man who was trying to bring his dead wife back to life. He probably has an interesting backstory, like how and where did he find The Butterfly Miraculous? Why did Emily use The Peacock Miraculous? How did The Peacock Miraculous get broken? But we have almost no info about his backstory. Another Sympathetic Villain trait that Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth doesn’t have is weakness. He doesn’t have a weakness but if you’re trying to write a Sympathetic Villain they should have one. For example his weakness could’ve been Adrien. Since he lost his wife, that could’ve been the reason for isolating his son. But Adrien has been homeschooled for all his life, so if that was the reason, Emily should’ve passed when Adrien was very young. And since he doesn’t have a weakness, unlike a Sympathetic Villain he’s ready to destroy whatever and kill whoever keeps them from achieving his goal(s). Chat Blanc is a very good example of that. I’m okay with him wanting to hurt Ladybug and Cat Noir to get their miraculouses but akumatising your own son to get them is ridiculous. Isn’t he supposed to be an overprotective father? If he is, why would he ignore the probability of his son potentially hurting himself from getting akumatised? You can argue and say “No one has hurt themself from getting akumatised.” but even if hurting yourself is impossible from getting akumatised that isn’t the only problem. He USED his son, like a puppet or a soldier. He didn’t even see him as his son, he saw him as an easy way of getting the miraculouses. If Adrien was his weakness, when he found out he was Cat Noir this whole time, he’d have a mix of emotions, not an idea of akumatising his own son. Personally, I would’ve been okay if Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth was a Sympathetic Villain, who had an interesting backstory and his weakness was Adrien. And I also would’ve been okay if Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth was a Psychopath who didn’t have an interesting backstory, had no weakness, who was ready to destroy whatever and kill whoever keeps them from achieving his goal(s). But trying to mix these two doesn’t make sense.
The writers retconned everything in Season 3. Don't fall for it. Don't take it to heart. It's a scam. He is still sympathetic. He still cares for Adrien. This is not the Gabriel that was set up. It's just like with Chloe. Ignore this blatant sabotage.
There is another type of villain that I call the ''hero-villain''. The type of villain that hurts others or do bad thing/ questionable things for a ''greater good'' or what the villain thinks it's the greater good. One could be the main antagonist of Made in Abyss because he's torturing children to ''save humanity''. He's basically insane or lost his humanity even if he had a good intention at first. I wouldn't call him a psycho because he has a motive more than just revenge or sadism. Another one could be Eren from AOT, but this one is extremely controversial.
@@berserker3414 There’s a lot of different villain types. I only explained two of them because I think Gabriel is in the middle of both. But I don’t think Gabriel is a “hero-villain”. To be honest I would’ve been okay if he was a “hero-villain” because they’re enjoyable to watch. But watching Gabriel is just frustrating.
It’s astonishing how Thomas Astruc wanted Gabriel to be the sympathetic villain and Chloe the irredeemable villain and someone made Chloe a somewhat fan favorite and aGabeiel a smooth brain with cartoonishly bad luck when he’s smart
I want an episode where Gabriel gets his wish, brings Emily back. I want to see Emily being a character and Gabriel would live a “happy” life with her but without Adrien because Gab had to kill him to achieve his goal. After Emily finds out what he had to do to achieve this, Emily is shocked and furious and rejects Gab. Gab is left there stunned and about to cry since he lost his son and the love of his life. Then Bunnix shows up seeing him cry, and tells asks him if he would like a second chance to fix his mistakes while he still can. Gab agrees but he has to give up his miraculouses to do so. She brings him back to the past (in our normal view the present). And Gab isn’t hawkmoth anymore, and hugs Adrien tightly. He knows he is Chat Noir but doesn’t care, and starts becoming a better father after that and accepts that he cannot bring his wife back.
THIS. Sure what he did is incredibly not okay but if he is a good person who really regretted his decision even for the love of his life Emily does not want him any longer, it means his life is just starting to be bad or good. My mom is the example of that, overprotective and bad parenting but what she did and took my happiness away made me incredibly more rebellious and stopped caring about love stuff. My resentment for her grew larger than her sickness, I don't really care for her if she's very willing to take my change of life. Changing school because I don't feel safe, won't make me grow up and treat me as a CHILD. I am 16 years old! Of course I still have lot ways to go, but that doesn't make me nurture or growing up in discipline way! It just makes me so mad to the point I'm dreaming of how to kill her.
It’s so funny to me how Gabriel can’t move on from his wife’s death/unconsciousness/whatever, but Amelie(I think that was her name, just Felix’s mother yknow) also lost her sister(maybe husband too idk), yet she’s still able to make normal decisions and love her son😻 Be like Amelie, not Gabriel
Yeah y'all! Everyone grieves but you eventually gotta move on and not become a literal villain unless you wanna be like Gabriel Agreste 🤷♀️ Just saying.
Fun Fact: Lila’s “A girl doesn’t need a costume to be amazing, you know!” line has teached me a better lesson than all the Miraculous Ladybug episodes combined (expect for season 2)
Chloe- a literal child with an emotionally abusive mother lashing out because she's hurting/reasonably hurt from said abuse ML: "oh she's unredeemable" Gabriel- a grown man who abuses his son and consciously decides to hurt other people to evilize them because he's so stuck bringing his wife back from death ML: "oh he's a good guy he's got hope of being better" logic- is gone. Tho in a serious note, I always viewed Gabriel's thing as like what goes on in The Willoughbys, parents with so much love but not for their children- just for each other. Gabriel having all his love but its only for HER, no one else and never had been, so he becomes mad from his grief- but thanks to the miraculous he became powerhungry too and began using his grief as a mental validation for his actions. he'd be more- in a way, sympathetic like that, because then things are actually a bit more understandable- like the My Strange Addiction shows, it starts out from something traumatic but becomes something else completely that begins affecting those around them. He'd be a man stuck in his delusional mind, afraid to accept reality and the exact awfulness of what he's done because "she'll be back and the world will be perfect because she and I will be together, thats all that matters", all while he's knowingly tormenting children and even a baby- though yeah the show is trying to present just him being sad his wife is dead as what makes him a sympathetic villain itself and less what they have actually built up which is- sad
This entire show is inconsistent in their characters. If you look at a show like ATLA, every episode has an important purpose and it cannot be avoided. Each episode either develops the characters, the world around them, or the plot as a whole. But in MLB, the show just explores and either regresses or just loops back around and doesn't go anything. Actually there is one consistent thing about MLB. They are consistently inconsistent with everything in this show.
So the writers are meaning to tell me that an adult who abuses his own child and literally caused the end of the world twice and possibly three times after strike back is more redeemable then a teenage girl?
i just think that his character would be a lot better if he had a GOOD motive instead of "oh no my wife is dead I'm just gonna go terrorize an entire city instead of accepting her death and move on" like maybe the writers should try to make gabriel at least more likable instead of making his entire personality being a cold ass and caring about his dead wife more than his alive and well son
He would've been much better if he didn't have his son that way people would be sympathetic towards him as they'd be like oh he lost his wife he doesn't have children he doesn't have anyone no family no friends he's got nothing to lose as he's already lost everything
Gabriel is stubborn, and he don't accept change, I can tell that is a congruent with his character that he don't want to move forward. But It still isn't enough, we don't have context about why he is able to do all this for her, we haven't had a real reason that justifies his actions. She was nice, good. But why he is doing this? Why if he fixed the peacok miraculous he did not create a sentiEmilie for him, because if he is mad enough to manipulate his own son and is willing to create the 3rd WW. Well man, do a senti of your beloved. He in many times showed intentions of surrender... To only came back to the duty without hesitation, man, if You really had doubts at this point (Risk) Made a senti of Emilie to have the opinion of your memories of her. And, with all the awful things that Gabriel made, still missing an answer, If Emilie a Goddess or something? Why is she so special? She made him the man he is today? She is the most loving and a the pure soul in the universe? She is his goddes of his cult? He wanted to bring her back because he knows that Adrien needs a mom!? No. Theres no justification or explanation about why is so crazy for this. (And acting like a dumb when he tries to create a villian like the baby or Mr. Pidgeon)
Welp, that was the case in Season 2, but just like with Chloe, Astruc can't have his character development beyond the one dimensional traits established from day 1.
A cool plotline could've been Gabriel taking Marinette on as an apprentice which would give Marinette a reason to be in the story besides being Ladybug.
It's interesting to see that the main character (Marinette) and the antagonist kinda have the same problem. They cannot let go and are obsessed with two people. Marinette is obsessed with Adrien and Gabriel is obsessed with Emily. That's interesting writing but doesn't help making the audience like the heroine once you've understood this
It's funny how his willing to erase the universe and create a new one just to bring back his wife. And man I thought marinette was the biggest simp in mlb
Don't take the rewriting the world motive to heart. They're just ruining his motivation to be comically nefarious and have an illusion of danger eith the Miraculouses. That was not how it was set up to be. That is a retcon out of nowhere.
@@Twat_Dirt well instead of moving on he choose to destroy the current universe basically killing every human and replacing them in the new universe where what he wish come true
@@bessieburnet9816 i'm glad that isn't just me that find that they ruined his motivation. I was even wanting him to win until they say that "ThE wHoLe WoRlD wiLL bE rEWrited", if this was the case why didn't the writers explained that before?
Gabriel is also the *DUMBEST* Villain! Think about it, he has the power to grant powers to other people, and HE gets to pick the powers, so why doesn't he just make a wish-granting genie villain to get what he wants? He could have the Miraculouses in an instant, or just cut out the middle man and just wish his wife back directly
@@emircanozad914 reached that point yet? Gabriel can akumatize HIMSELF, he doesn't need to terrorise Paris or have ONE person ONCE a day to get angry, he can just akumatize himself and then BOOM, grants himself the power to heal and bring back his dead wife!
@@itspienoon7883 There is a possibility the effects will be reversed once he de akumatizes himself. There must be a reason why he is after the LB and cn's miraculous.
@@emircanozad914 while that is true that an akumatized person loses their powers once the akuma is gone, what's stopping him from strengthening his powers so it still stays active?
The writers didn't think. There are many of the Miraculouses that could get the job done soooo easily. The writers really don't hear themselves when they try to spice it up and make it look cool. It's cool, but Ladybug, Hawkmoth and the Rooster could definitely end this with their powers.
Some good plot points for Gabriel (If the Thomas would friggin do something) could be: 1.) He hates Adrian because Adrian is a constant reminder of his wife, his pain, and he wants to be with a good dad to Adrian but it just pains too much to even look at him and he knows he’s failing his son and Gabriel thinks the only way he can love his son is to bring Emily back 2.) He’s been trying to form Adrian to be the most perfect person ever because Gabriel’s wife Emily seemed perfect in his eyes and since Adrian reminds Gabriel of Emily whenever Adrian get’s something wrong Gabriel takes it to heart and feels like Adrian is disrespecting Emily
I find a couple things ironic, One Is that Gabriels VA(Keith Silverstein) in real life is actually a Good dad. And also Keith happens to voice act for some shit Dads like Masayoshi Shido(Persona5),Professor Tomeo (Sailor Moon Manga/Crystal), and IDK if this counts but Chairman Rose (Pokemon Twilight Wings).
@@rcl4737 Ha. Trying to compare them is just comedic to me. Gabriel was so inconsistent. They couldn’t keep his character in balance. They don’t address the fact that he deliberately gaslights, neglects, and abuses his son. I bet that somehow he isn’t going to face consequences, Emile will somehow return, and they all live happily ever after.
@@Justin-ui5ti I mean as the actor. I was agreeing that he’s a pretty good voice actor and it’s a shame he voices a character who’s has no development put into him.
At the beginning he was very interesting but later on he just started to become a joke villain. Gabriel’s arc should’ve ended with what happened after Style Queen, make him realise what he’s doing is wrong and is affecting his own son. Make him try and move on from his wife and spend more time with his son and being a better father instead of neglecting him. But no, the writers don’t know how to write a good antagonist/parent. :/
I just had a realization: If Gabriel is going to destroy the world, knowing it’ll kill everyone including Adrien, why did he have that sympathetic moment in Gorizilla? If Adrien did die by splattering on the ground, why would it matter to him? He could just get the miraculous & destroy the world & wish it anew with Emillie & Adrien in it alive?
It's a retcon. Like so many other things. Don't take it to heart. The writers deliberately destroyed it. Rewriting the world was not how Gabriel was set up, and he was also set up to love his son. Don't fall for it. It's a scam.
Natalie points out in season 5 that while he starts out as a sympathetic villain, his constant obsession drove him to insanity and it became more of a drive for victory than for family.
imagine he revives his wife but being dead messed with her mind and she sees flashes of her old life and wants it back so she slowly becomes the real villain as her mind slowly deteriorates
LoL Gabriel is the real "Irredeemable" here not a freaking 15 year old who's being expressed hate by a grown up yet childish creator that go boo hoo on Twitter!
Felix is my favourite charecter, just because it's absolutely hilarious to me that he's able to outsmart all of the charecters in the show, just because he has common sense.
The Mystery of Emily Agreste's death/coma was definitely confirmed in Risk. She probably died/in a coma due to her using the Peacock Miraculous to create Adrien.
Someone once said Chloe was supposed to represent someone who just is too stuck in their ways to change, or is unwilling to change. This character type actually works better for Gabriel, because Chloe was gonna change and shows that she can be a better person (and she's 14 so it's hard damn her to being unable to change.) Gabriel, on the other hand, has shown that he can't change, and is so obsessed with bringing his wife back that part of him probably thinks it's too late to turn back. And I do think he loves Adrien, but love =/= good treatment. He's definitely an abusive father who hurts his son, whether unintentionally or because he thinks it's tough love, and it makes him a bad person.
2:27 I cared until the god awful S5 finale transpired, Gabe literally had the two miraculous he was trying to get for 5 fucking seasons and doesn’t even bring back his wife when that was his stupid ass goal?! He instead decides to make Adrien an orphan and say “Nathalie is your new mom because I don’t want to raise you anymore” like huh? I legit wanted to drop the show but decided to stick around but pretend the Emilie doesn’t exist (she is a mere plot device not a character) Amilie is an only child and a milf, she never had a twin sister. Adrien never had a mom up until Nathalie decided to adopt him,Gabe is a single dad and never had a wife and Felix never had an aunt. Emilie Agreste? Never heard of her! Honestly I’m shocked that I cared for this long. In conclusion, Emilie Agreste never existed.
I still remember in season 1, he once said he'll use the Miraculous to rule the world. I don't care if that's a writing error or not, it's a sign he plans more than just saving his wife.
I liked Gabriel from the first moment. I can understand him, yes we don't know much about his wife but the fact that he lost her makes his actions understandable. Losing his wife is painful, as a viewer you don't have to know her, knowing that she is his wife and that he loves her is enough. If you look at real life it's the same, if you hear that someone has lost their wife you feel sorry, whether you know her or not. I also like that Gabriel has moments where he's there for Adrien and abandons his plan for him. Gabriel is the only one who respects Chloe, besides Adrien. he has called her special and called her queen. he said he won't akumatize her anymore, but he did anyway which shows he thinks highly of her.and he defended her from lila. i like all those things, i also like the fact that he's clever. these are the reasons why i still like him, but i have to say that they did some things wrong with him in the new episodes.
This comment is why I still found Gabriel likable throughout the nonsense. I also feel sad about Chloe being absolutely ruined by the creator having a temper tantrum over Chloe having redemption and being more realistic than any other character (aside from Gabriel, and maybe Adrien) in the entire show. I didn't like her at first, but her reasoning made her relatable, in a way. I wasn't mean from my mistreatment, but she still was relatable in some aspects and I could honestly see a kid like Chloe existing out there. And for Thomas to insist anyone mean is always mean just hurts, it's an awful message to kids to tell them that. Went off track, I just felt the need to mention her, too. Overall, Miraculous could've been a incredible show. I hope someone rewrites the entire show someday and makes it far better so it isn't entirely butchered.
That is a good point. But yet again, Gabriel isn’t a real life person, he’s a character, and his motivation needs to be clear. Sure, he lost his wife, and that’s sad, but it isn’t enough to horn in the fact that we’re supposed to be sympathising with him. We need a backstory, to see how Emalie and Gabe met, even see what personality Emalie had or how she got into the coma, that would’ve made more emotional impact than seeing her do nothing in a coffin. We know nothing of this woman or what she was to Adrien or Gabriel, Cyrus is right, she is a plot device, so why should we care about a plot device? Also, I honestly don’t think Gabriel is that intelligent. He repeats the same mistakes, and only few times does he actually think through his strategies, and he doesn’t even do it by himself, Natalie mostly comes up with the plans.
@@megakittenex i feel you so deamn much. I totally agree, I feel sorry for Chloe too. There are children like her out there, if the parents don't do their job properly, the child suffers a lot. you can see that with Chloe. Yeah, i wish someone would rewrite the show, it has so much potential but is wasting it.
@@laris_life Exactly! Showing kids that 'mean' kids don't change is awful, what if one of those kids is a die-hard fan, having relied on Chloe's situation as support? It's not okay, it's messed up to do that, even if it's fictional. Thomas doesn't deserve the respect he has for things like his idiotic childhood 'trauma' that lead to him creating Chloe for the sake of getting back at his bullies. I only still watch this show because I want to see the ending, really.
@@megakittenex Absolutely! Shows are meant to teach kids, but this show is teaching them the wrong things. I know people who haven't gotten the attention they need at home or who get bullied at home. When I found that out I understood why they do what they do. that's what understanding others is all about. when you do that, it's easier for you, but also for others. children should learn that mean people can change too (chloe has shown that it works). wait, he gets respect for that? "I had trauma so now I'm traumatizing a character I created myself,,. how does that make sense?
I had a theory once that what if Emily was pregnant the time she used the peacock miraculous which also weakened her even more and in result, giving her a deep coma and Gab hating Adrien....? but nah he cared for him like twice I swear the story this show has is messy af💀
@@jujublue4426 yeah exactly her pregnancy and the miraculous *weakened* her resulting in coma when she couldn't take it anymore so basically, her body gave up at some point of time just not right after she gave birth to Adrien
Just realised that if Adrien never had any birthday... That means that Emily never gave him one either?? And we're supposedly to think of her as angelic?
IKR THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN THINKING also the fact Adrien only got a pen every birthday until the one in Bubbler even when Emilie was alive so I genuinely doubt the "nice and caring" description they give her
I know what I’m about to comment has nothing to do with Gabriel But the fact that some marishit simps are literally excusing her behaviour of stalking Adrien is absolutely disgusting, like do they know what she’s done? Have they SEEN Chat blanc and puppeteer 2? And their excuse is “Adrien is blind”💀💀
And Marri shoots herself in the foot she’s had many chances to tell him how she feels then she stutters and flatters around sending weird messages to adrien how dosent understand cause he was homeschooled most of his life
@@bessieburnet9816 His harassment is actually acknowledged tho and he apologizes and he realizes that he's being pushy, him going back to square one every episode of him harassing ladybug is just Thomas' bad writing, but there was no point in time creepynette's actions where confronted which makes her worse and more unlikable
@Jeff do you realise how hypocritical marishit/ ladybitch is being? •Said to cat noir that they can’t reveal their identities, but she tells alya •Doesn’t give a miraculous to Chloe because hawk moth knows her identity, but he knows carapace, Rena rouge, viperion, ryuko, Pegasus, king monkey etc. and still let’s them be heroes Here are more points that she’s a total creep: •Stalked Adrien to Shanghai •stole his phone •knows his timetable off by heart for like years •Sabotaged Kagami in animaestro •Stole kagami’s phone and was looking on it •Sniffed Adrien’s pillow •Has birthday gifts for Adrien for all his birthdays •Always makes passion fruit macaroons for Adrien because she knows that’s his favourite Yeah…I don’t know what you’re even talking about at this point. Your clearly a marishit and ladybitch simp.
(writing this before the vid so I don't forget so sorry if Cyrus addressed this) Something that baffled me about Gabriel was the fact they changed his wish. Initially, he just wanted to bring Emilie back which is understandable. Plus, the cost of that wish would be the death of _one_ person. But now, he wants to create an entire universe where he and Em can never be apart????? Wtf? If they wanted him to be a sympathetic villain, why change his goal from costing one person to costing *_billons?_* And why make him care so little about Adrien? It makes Emilie look like a bad person, too.
The writers retconned everything in Season 3. Don't fall for it. Don't take it to heart. It's a scam. He is still sympathetic. He still cares for Adrien. He doesn't want to rewrite the world, he just wants to revive his wife. This is not the Gabriel that was set up. It's just like with Chloe. Ignore this blatant sabotage.
I hope in a few years down the line, Miraculous Ladybug gets a reboot where they rewrite the story and characters to follow a consistent plot with consistent character personalities and character arcs. As much as I love this show, at this point its about just waiting for the dumpster fire to release some golden moments. This show has so much potential but it suffers from so much inconsistencies and backtracking. I seriously hope it gets a reboot like ducktales to get a properly fleshed out story in the end.
It is sad. The relationships had so much potential for growth and change. Instead they dumbed down everyone. They failed to develop people across episodes and instead made it into formulas. Look at ATLA. Every single episode allowed for development and also adding depth to each character and also advancing the plot in a clear direction. Now MLB is not that.
I think the write made up the whole “destroy the universe” thing to make Gabriel a bigger. In season 2 Master Fu said if someone make a wish, then someone opposite of the wish must occur to keep eternal balance. In season 1,2,3 Gabriel reason was to bring back his wife, so either Adrien or Natalie would had be sacrificed to keep balance. The whole destroying the universe wish only appear in season 4! It wasn’t his original wish! This is so to justify why Chat Noir can’t reveal his identity to Ladybug because the world will end! It’s stupid!
Don't take the rewriting the world motive to heart. They're just ruining his motivation to be comically nefarious and have an illusion of danger eith the Miraculouses. That was not how it was set up to be. That is a retcon out of nowhere.
Wait I haven’t watched season 4 yet. Really, THAT’S what they’re going for? If reviving his wife will destroy the universe, then _why would he do that_ ?! Both he and is wife are in the universe?!
If you thought Gabriel was a terrible parent before just wait until season 5. Especially the last few episodes of season 5. They make Season 1-3 Gabriel look like father of the year by comparison.
Has anyone here read the miraculous fanfic dear son where Gabriel rethinks his parenting of Adrien if not you should try it sometime it’s nice but the ending is kinda unsatisfying I won’t spoil it for you
It’s funny. Today I had a dream about him. About him once again abusing his own child (only this time I was there) to point of nearly driving him into suicide. At that point I said to him right in his face to just “F*** OFF!”
It’s a shame really, Gabriel could have been one of the best written and complex characters in the show but the writers don’t know how to write an interesting antagonist. Some part of me hopes we get a prequel series about him which develops him but I feel like that would ruin his character more.
They don't know how to write characters at all, they can't even agree ( Chloe's redemption put to trash, Gabriel showing some care for his son until Chat Blanc when he has no problem putting his son in danger and using him for his own goals...)
The whole hating your kid but loving your wife angle could work; maybe Adrian never met his mom cause she died during childbirth. Gabriel could be at war with himself, trying to connect with the child his wife left behind while also blaming that son for her death (this would make the situation in Chat Blanc more believable). Maybe he can be inadvertently comparing Adrian to Emily and trying to mold him into a replacement; he sees some traits that he loved about Emily in Adrian (i.e. she could've played the piano or compete in fencing). If we want to go even more dark, Gabriel could've been the reason behind Emily's state, having him treat her like he does with Adrian is a form of domestic abuse; isolating her from the outside and friends, controlling her life, having his people monitor her whenever she went out. All of it could've stressed her out and lead to a heart condition and maybe premature birth. Gabriel could've been delusional with everything being fine until Adrian was born. None of these make Gabriel sympathetic, but they're more compelling then "it's all about family" 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Thing is, destroying the world wasn't originally a "package deal" (shall we say) of making a wish via the LB and CN Miraculous. If you recall the Season 2 episode "Robustus", there it was said that making a wish causes something of equal value to die or disappear so as to balance things out. It's very obvious the writers changed that for Season 4 so as to add more drama to the thing, but it doesn't. It's just like what was said on a episode of Chilean puppet series "31 Minutos": the world ends, but then an identical world (or almost identical in the case of this trainwreck of a series) forms, so no one realizes it - or gives a d*mn about.
Gabriel giving up on being Hawkmoth, and then immediately going back to it, is actually a very believable, futile attempt of breaking with obsession, made by a fraction of reasonable mind left. I know, because I experienced it. One day I say to myself that it's pointless, that it just hurts me, and those around me, I go out and reconcile with others, do one or two decent things. The same fu****g day I go back to it, because I simply am not able to function otherwise. Obsession is mostly overlooked as a character flaw, while in reality it's a nasty, disgusting disease. I am not saying it's making Gabriel a better person, but I do think that it was a very realistic moment in the show.
Yeah,I don't care if his wife is dead. Okay,I may feel sorry for Gabriel but God I wish he's interesting and at least smart. Not the less,he should have care for Adrien like a father should be and move on from his wife's death. A villain is no excuse neglecting their child. Look at doofenshmirtz,he may be a supervillain and have a sad past but at least he try to care for his daughter and also having had a divorce but somehow accurate. Everytime perry and doofenshsmirtz fight,I love it because perry will try to teach him how to care for his daughter. Okay,that's what a good villain dad should be. Even a villain,he won't akumatize a child and a baby but he did that anyway because he runs out of ideas. What's next? He's gonna send an akuma to a fish or or a desk? I dare him to try to akumatize animals and inaminate objects. I dare him because it will be even funnier. And more hilarious. Hah,sometimes I want him to akumatize water.
"While abusing his son emotionally" and physically too in chat blanc before even akumatizing him how did he get to the Eiffel Tower? Did they battle it out until then? (Which would've been just as bad on its own) no, gabe straight up used a cane to fucking launch chat (which he knows is his own son) into the Eiffel Tower WHICH IS WHO KNOWS HOW MANY MILES AWAY this among many other reasons is why I started to hate this man and I'll continue to do so
You know what would have fixed “Chat Blanc” for me? Gabriel finding out that Adrien is chat AND actually being concerned. Like: Nathalie: (she, also surprised and at some point, terrified of what would Gabriel do with the information) Sir… your… your son… Hawk Moth: WHATS GOING ON NATHALIE?! SPIT IT OUT! Nathalie: (scared) Your son… He is… Chat Noir. At this point, everything falls in Gabriel’s mind. He didn’t expect that. It is the hardest thing to realize, cause if that’s real, then he would have fighting his own son, HIS ONLY SON, the only person in his life that is as same as important as Emily to him. He frees the akuma willingly and de-transforms. Later, in the night, he’s with Nathalie, alone in a room: Gabriel: Nathalie… please… I have to know… Did you really see Adrien as…? Nathalie: … you didn’t know it. No one of us did. It is… (silence). What do we do next? Gabriel: … it was Adrien Natalie… all this time… I’ve been fighting my son all along… Natalie: …it’s not your faul- Gabriel: IT IS MY SON NATALIE! I ALMOST KILLED MY OWN SON! I-I thought that I was keeping him safe, but I don’t even know him, I don’t know where he is, and he’s been taking care of Paris… he’s… my son is a hero… he… he should have take it from his… from Emily. Nathalie …Sir… Gabriel: (Sobbing) … I’m a horrible person Natalie… I’m a terrible father… Maybe in later episodes Gabriel will struggle with the fact that his son is his enemy, but in a deeper way. He would try to be a better dad, he would try to know him better, maybe at the beginning he would still want the miraculous but he would try to get it from Adrien from winning his confidence, but from then on, he would learn more about Adrien and will question himself if he still wants to b Hawk Moth.
The fact that Emilie isn't even a character at this point, but just a plot device for Gabriel to play his role makes things so much worse. We know nothing about her aside from her being "sweet and kind" like every other character in the MLB universe. I still remember a Peacock Miraculous user being teased called "Le Paon" who looks exactly like Emilie, but nothing came out of it. We know they're not Nathalie as Mayura because they look nothing alike. Still hoping that Emilie somehow gets revived and uses her Miraculous in some way to make the story semi-interesting again.
He really should’ve actually given up being the villain the first time it looked like he would, so someone else could steal his powers to become the new main antagonist. While he finds some other way to save his wife.
You know what would've made Gabriel more sympathetic? If over the series, it'd show that Emilie was extremely manipulative and controlling but Adrien knows, and Gabriel is just a victim of hers and is influenced by her controlling-ness, thus why he's so controlling and manipulative towards Adrien. Then after she died, he would fall into such a craze that without her, he believes that he can't do anything, thus giving us a real reason as to why Gabriel wants to bring her back SO DAMN BAD, that he'd be willing to sacrifice his entire city and fight two teenagers constantly for their jewelry.
I think Gabriel would’ve been better off having an episode featuring younger him and his wife. If it was something like his wife entrusting him with a mission I would’ve already been satisfied. At this point how it’s written makes me feel as though Gabriel does evil stuff for the sake of being evil using his wife as an excuse. If he ends up killing Adrien (which won’t happen bc its a kids show and I’m getting needlessly annoyed over this huge L), I have a feeling Gabriel wouldn’t even be remorseful, just “For the greater good” type beat. It wouldn’t even move the storyline further or improve it in anyway but y’know, if they ever want to get rid of Adrien and add a new ML that can actually slap some common sense and respect for other’s boundaries into Marinette that’d be fine too.
After ranting in so many MLB videos, I have officially destroyed my microphone. LOL. I'll be getting a new one very soon. Thanks for watching my video, dudes!
Also, I recommend listening to this album while looking at the stars at night: czcams.com/play/OLAK5uy_lOBp2mPxNulohlUpAXaJpPy8MI8cLQS4E.html
can you please react to penalteam?
@@Yurisubscribenowuwu he will have a lot of things to say
Why are they hidden?
Lmao- that explains things- XD
I remember when his character had this thing called consistancy. Then the writers needed a villian and a conflict for adrian.
at this point thomas is the main antagonist of the show 💀
Lol agree
Accurate.
Always has been
fr
True tho
Last time i was this early, Gabriel was still a compelling character that actually had depth.
Me too
So you’ve never been early before?
@@arthurvale6748 💀
@@arthurvale6748 💀💀 That killed me twice
I use to like his character. A single father learning how to take care of his son, slowly realizing that his Hawkmoth shit wad putting adrian in danger. But then it was like the show needed a villian, (someone to use in the what if eps too, they couldnt give him a conflict in those about his son being chat noir since the only point was to show adrian and marinettes relationship n stuff) they needed people to feel sorry for chat noir/adrian.
The “love” he has for his wife is just an unhealthy obsession at this point
And We all know someone with unhealthy obsession: Marinette. I think If she realises that Adrien is sentimonter she would do the same for Adrien. she will try to fuse both Miraculous just to make Adrien fully human. Because in her eyes him being a sentimonter is something imperfect, something she has to fix. Just like Gabriel trying bring Emilie back to life. Ok maybe i’m overeacting but imagine that scenerio Adrien in Emilie situation and Marinette in Gabriel situation. I mean it’s not impossible
@@xwhitewolfiex1190 Idk how she would react really
@@xwhitewolfiex1190 adrien isn't a sentimonster its confirmed but I can see that those ring control him
Kinda like marinettes love for adrien🤔
Every time the writer tried to write love it just turn into an unhealthy obsession
Gabriel is a Sympathetic Villain. The "Sym" is silent
@GusIsCool Thanks
Exactly 👏
nice one🤣🤣🤣
🤣
He's also a sympathetic but take away "athetic" and replace the "y" with "i" 😉
They did Chloe dirty. She was the most interesting character, and the fact that it might have been an accident says a lot about the writers.
She's more interesting than Mari
no really, a lot of stuff in good stories got writted by pure share coincidence and it wasn't an attempt of the writers to begin with. A good writer will monopolised on this "happy accidents" to create a better story...
which it isn't this case
I don't really get why she's so interesting when she's literally just a bully in the entire series. EVEN racist, descriminates people etc.
@@raolegends4413 becasue she has a sad past with a bad mom, and due to everyone having mother issue since 1985, they identify with her~
@@poijnve3912 Wait but how is that an excuse when she gets all the love from her father and still doesn't care?
i love how an adult psychopath is viewed as a sympathetic villain, but an emotionally abused teenager (*cough cough* chloe *cough*) is viewed as irredeemable. i mean come on thomas -_-
Rightt?!!
I would not call him a sympathetic villain just because he has a motivation, unlike this video. As for Chloe, she is nowhere near as evil to be redeemed from, just a childish, spoiled brat.
Hawk Moth or Gabriel is more of a sociopathic villain. I don’t feel sorry for him trying to bring his dead wife back to life and abuses his own son.
@@pkmntrainerdee6153
RIGHT? Yet this video needed him to be a "sympathetic villain" so as to complain about him being so *villainous* and a "bad parent."
@@Bezaliel13 I agree with what you're saying, but wdym by "in this video"? Cyrus is only saying this because that's what the writers and creators of the show is saying about Gabriel, not what he personally thinks, obviously. I mean he keeps saying what he truly feels throughout the whole video?? We're _supposed_ to feel bad for Gabriel, and he's supposed to be "sympathetic" but we all know that's not the case bc of all the reasons listed in this video. And the creator is always trashing on Chloe and saying she's "irredeemable" which is why Cyrus said this as well. And he absolutely is a bad parent after all the things he's done to his son! The writers have no idea what their doing with this show, it's all over the place, and yet nothing at the same time! (well, I don't think their to blame entirely, Thomas Asstruc is most likely to blame, he's the worst!) These characters, their stories and everything in this show is just wasted potential :(
Gabriel Agreste: *Neglects his children, terrorizes Paris, etc*
Writers: Nah, he is sympathetic
Chloe: *Literally only bullies people.*
Writers: THAT WOMAN IS IRREDEEMABLE AND WORSE THAN THE CORPORATION OF NESTLE-
BRO J4JSKDIK ES TRISTEMENTE CIERTO
Terrible
just Thomas
Don't forget In the Shanghai special Gabriel and Nathalie were involved in the actual murder of Fei's adoptive father and we don't see any correlation as to why he did this for Emilie so it seems as if he took someone's life all for the sake of lusting after power. If at the end they do show him in a sympathetic light then shouldn't they do the same for Chloe.
@@baconboiii67 Lila is a pretty terrible person too, but Marinette is way too flawed and Thomas AssTruck is a hypocrite by protecting her and crying to fans about how unfair we are and he blocks ppl who criticise him.
Fun Fact: The creator of mlb left for awhile so that gave the writers time to write Chloe's redemption arc, but then the creator came back and nerfed all of Chloe's character development
It possible for that to happen again. Sure plenty of shows how been taken from their creators
And the rest of the show while he was at it TT-TT
He nerfed everything. The writers retconned everything in Season 3. Don't fall for it. Don't take it to heart. It's a scam. Ignore this blatant sabotage.
I remember he left as head director not head writer. Doesn’t matter at all if he still involve in this show
@@leopardnosepaws True enough though at this point I think our only hope for Chloe is in the new movie timeline. Different take altogether.
It would be a good idea if they revealed that the Butterfly Miraculous slowly distorts his users mind making Gabriel less emotional and more obsessed with bringing back Emily, that way he can be a symphatetic and a ruthless villain
Amazing Idea!
Doesn't exaclty feel fitting with nuru (kwami of that miraculous), as usually after the transformation the character of Miraculous user and its qwami seemed to mix together (weirdly Gabriel's and NAtalie's never seemed to be the case) -and that features seems nothing like nuru...
Both Butterfly and Peacock should've been broken. To where the Peacock deteriorates the body, the Butterfly deteriorates the mind.
@@theycallmedaddy1307
Yeah. That makes sense.
@@theycallmedaddy1307 that’s a perfect idea
I feel so bad for the s2 writers, they gave Chloe a redemption arc, they tried to make Gabriel more sympathetic, only to see how all of this went to trash in the next seasons thanks to Thomas Astruc. Very sad.
Also, no backstory for him and Emilie? Y'all this show is soo cursed 😢
If they would ever give Adrien or Gabriel screentime, then we would learn more about the Agreste Family backstory. But no, the writers concentrate on Marinette when she has a basic life with 0 depth, and the show gets repetitive.
I want- no we NEED the season 2 writer's back!
@@chatnoirsimp1171that’s what I’m saying
It also begs the question: does he truly love his son for HIM, or is it merely because Adrien is the very last living reminiscent and symbol of his and Emile's love and nothing more?
Definitely option 2.
He did. We saw the episode. He was hoping for Adrien to be Cat Noir so he could be safe. He was alone with no one to perform for. He loved him and the writers destroyed that.
That would be interesting question that would add nuance to his character. Too bad Arstuc won’t allow that.
@@encyclogeekia1865 *asstruck
@@encyclogeekia1865 Wait a sec I just thought I commented here... I used this pfp for like forever lol
I know he is supposed to be someone we should feel sympathetic to,but it kinda sucks how they are expecting us to be sympathetic towards a guy who was redy to murder thousands of people just to get the miraculouses of Lady and cat.... sometimes I feel like he is just doing it for the fun of it,and not to save his wife...He isn't a tragic villain,but a tragic attempt at writing a villain.
He's also capable of mentally/emotionally tormenting/breaking/abusing his own son to get what he wants
The thing is,if he succeds,he will reset the world and hence nobody will remember
@@arash.a2358 He will destroy the world and create new one
@@needle1025 true...
@@arash.a2358 yeah....
I feel that Gabriel's "excuse" for abusing his son is that when he finally rewrites the world, he creates one in which Adrien was never abused, so his treatment of the current Adrien will be nullified. ... which is all shades of disturbing.
Huh. He's like the worse version of the antagonist from Wakfu.
@@MillyKKitty uh which one?
@@sh4dowperson
Probably Nox.
Except Nox had the sort of excuse of being genuinely mentally unwell and delusional to some extent that made him less personally vile.
That is such a good reason and some of his desperation can literally be his son and wanting to escape from all the horrible things he's done
@@MillyKKitty To be honest, when I was watching Wakfu my stupid ass didn’t see the problem with Nox’s plan. He’s not traveling back in time, but reversing time so even though he killed a bunch of people that timeline would get erased. But then he only went back 30 minutes instead of 300 years and I was like oh that’s why it’s bad but it was too late for me to take him seriously as a villain.
so let me get these writers straight....
Chloe: put a train full of people in danger to receive love and affection specially from the one person who legit fucking stood up and left her when she was a little kid/toddler (+ had another kid while being away and was maybe more involved with her for longer than her) and the one other teen she admired to be like = unredeemable, evil, will never be a true hero
Hawkmoth: Grown ass man who caused the apocalypse twice by abusing the fuck out of his 14 yr old child for 'the sake of his wife' while also causing daily destruction in paris (and if it wasn't for the restart button ladybug has most likely would also have a bodycount higher than the population there) = Sympathetic, a grieving father trying his best UnU)!!
yeah no I am calling bullshit
Gabriel is kinda dumb when you realize all he had to do to bring back wifey was to give someone the power to resurrect dead people and have them go into his basement and do the thing.
Oml ur right
Spoiler:
Now he has the Bunny miraculous and he can just bring her back. But then the show would end and they don't want that.
@@nikosrnec3193 even though the writers and Thomas won’t allow it this makes Gaberial look dumber than Zoe in Total drama all stars
Wow i can't believe that Gabriel is being dumb down in season 3 and 4 because of his smooth brain.
FRRR
It was understandable that Gabriel was cold towards his son, he was so focused on bringing back his wife that he overlooked his Adrien. There were instances where it was clear that although he is cold, he deeply cares about Adrien and he doesn't want to hurt him. He wants to bring back Adrien's mother after all, so he was doing it for Adrien's sake as well and Adrien is what's left of Emily. I think it was Cat Blanc that completely ruined it for me. It was the episode that made me go, wait what? I thought he cared about his son?! And from there on Gabriel was shown as more and heartless and the sympathy for him just went out completely...
Just like Marinette and Chloé he got flanderized, it's getting worse throughout the seasons these characters are just caricatures of themselves now.
Same
I really don’t understand why people treat Akumatizing as this Super Evil Unforgivable act. Oh he Akumatized his Son he gave him more Super Powers that unforgivable. Like Come on how this any different than anyone else he done this with. They still have the Will to disobey him if they want.
@@KavinCatastrophe it's not that simple to disobey, if you've noticed when he akumatized his son it was done in the worst times for Adrien to resist, he was having a mental breakdown after discovering that his mom is kept undergroud hawkmoth being the one behind it AND Gabriel being hawkmoth (not to mention the theory of him being a sentimonster makes him obey against his will easier if it's true due to the amoked object).
@@pen_gui He didn’t have the ring at the time and yeah it is hard to resist but not impossible. Adrien was clearly conflicted on helping his father or helping Ladybug. But it clear akumatizing is like a deal being made so Adrien agree to kind of help his father save his mother it only when confronted with ladybug he regretted that decision and couldn’t choose. Every time people gets akumatized they are saying YES in their sadness,grief, or anger as an agreement.
Thomas hates morally grey characters, period. He just wants to have bland characters and not make them multidimensional and complex. Gabriel could have been a great villain with great motivation, but now his motives are becoming more and more ridiculous as show goes on.
As with all the the characters, he destroyed them when Season 2 tried to make them more than one dimensional traits established first episode. Gabriel, Chloe, Natalie, Lila, and so many more. Any interesting plot thread, they ignore. Don't fall for the retcons of Season 3. It's a scam.
The dude is seriously childish
You can tell me Season 4 is the first season and I would believe you. The character development isn't even non-existent, but it degrades itself.
Season 1 and 2 are good but season 3 and 4 aren't. I feel like he should've been defeated already but they release so many pointless episodes. I really hate it. I get tired of the same super villians and I think we should have a new hack moth or miraculous holder by now and in this final he still isn't defeated and it upset me
He must love mary sue characters.
I will never get over the fact that the episode "Gabriel Agreste" wasn't a flashback episode. Sure, Felix returning was cool, but 50% of the episode's plot was so pointless and repetitive by having Marinette failing to confess as if we haven't seen it for the 100th time.
Episode "Felix" would've also been a good episode to be clear with the audience about Emilie's death, but no, let the theorists do the show writers' job for them, because I swear if you ever had any question about the show, you can never rely on the show to tell you shit.
I heard that after the 5th season, the main story will be complete and I believe we have 2 seasons left before the show ends. The same applies to Lila as well; we barely know anything about her and like I said, everything that is being said about her is through theory videos.
yes i also thought that the episode "Gabriel Agreste" would be a flashback episode - but no. Then I hoped that the 100th episode would be a flashback episode and I'm really disappointed. With these two episodes they would have had the perfect opportunity to finally explain what happened to Emelie, but they didn't use it! The 100th episode was supposed to be something new and a flashback episode would have been perfect for that, but no! Instead we get one of the most illogical and worst episodes ever!!🙄😠
It is painful to watch these show without a clear explanation.You know what I know these is a Shock for most people but I think I would rather watch the worst anime ever made than see this show.Because at least they give viewers accurate reasons for their action.
@@Tanaka-kun9313 ¿would you see the poor attempt of "anime" that was "bolivar el héroe"?
Yes
The expectation: this is gonna be about how gabe and emilie were got miraculous
Reality: Just showing a shitty infiltration from Creepynette & humiliation to Chloe who actually do the right thing in the episode. Soon or later, people will realize and saying Marinette is problematic characters as same as SpongeBob and Jerry the mouse
Santa: What do you want for Christmas young girl.
Girl: A dragon
Santa: c'mon be realistic
Girl: Gabriel to be a good father, and Chloe to be a hero again.
Santa: What color do you want your dragon.
As kids, we celebrate the heroes. As adults,
we still don't understand this villain
True but well Gabriel aka Hawk moth is so halirous that it makes sence that we don't have a clew bout him 😂😂
You know what I hate. When people say Gabriel loves Adrien. He doesn't. I get abusers can love thier victims but still abuse them, but Gabriel does not care about Adrien. If he did, he would have tried more to keep him safe. I don't care if in risk he tried making his son leave before he started his masquerade on Paris, kind actions towards someone doesn't mean you love them. Look at Mother Gothel,she fed and raised Rapunzel lovingly for 18 years. Gothel shows kindness to Rapunzel but never loved her. Gabriel is emotionally abusive and so controlling. If Adrien is a sentimonster, his cruelty would reach a new high. Adrien would have to listen to everything his dad wants and his dad doesn't care if Adrien doesn't want to do it. Abuse doesn't grow overnight. Adrien was being abused even before his wife died. It's implied that Adrien was never allowed to make friends, got the same lame pen for about three years and has no childhood dream. I believe since Adrien is finally getting some freedom, he starting to see awful is dad is. If Gabriel really loved Adrien, Cat Blanc wouldn't have happened. Don't come at me with "Oh its a different timeline" no is really not. It's just what would happen in the future if Adrien ever figured out Ladybug's identity. It happened also in Ephemeral. Gabriel just straight up akumatized his son without a second thought. Like yes, because loving parents do jump on the best opportunity to manipulate and control their kid for their own gain. Loving my ass. Gabriel sees Adrien like an extensions of himself (like a narcissist), the way he keeps saying Adrien is perfection, he sees what he like about Adrien as perfection but hate when he doesn't have control over his son or hates what he doesn't consider good enough from Adrien. He wants Adrien to be perfect, his own way and nothing else. He loves the idea of Adrien and not Adrien himself. No loving parent would like an image or idea of their child, they would most likely want their kid to be themselves honestly. I get Gabriel doesn't have to be the best parent but it's evident he doesn't care one bit. I wish he was kept as neglectful but still loving dad but he wasn't, he just got worse and worse.
Gabriel 100% is the kind of parent who gets a kid to further himself. Adrian is a free labor model who brings in money for Gabriel's fashion. That's all his use for Gabriel atm. Which. Yikes.
i guess I was holding on to the fact that he was "a good parent" because my parents are similar, the moment they don't have control over us they stop us from doing the activity that gave us some sort of control.
Facts
"He loves the idea of Adrien and not Adrien himself." Sound like anyone we know 🤔
@@rutsanchez7023 mhm
Gabriel: I'm doing this for her Adrien. For you. For us.
Jacksepticeye: Sneezes. Sorry. Sorry. I'm allergic to bullshit!
lol
Antisepticeye is a better antagonist/villain.
I think he was supposed to be a sympathetic villain until season 2. I think that’s what writers were aiming for. But they changed him from a sympathetic villain to a classic cartoon villain in season 3, right after Astruc took over the story telling. I honestly feel sorry for the poor soul who went through the pain of writing season 2(Chloe’s arc, Gabriel’s Kong episode, Master Fu also visiting Cat Noir about power up food) only for Astruc to walk all over it cause he though train wreck drama style story telling is likely to attract more eyeballs, even though it’s a kids show.
Season 2 was MLB at it's peak
@@kingmin9491 Agreed. I felt dirty watching season 3.
The thing is when you do more and more evil Stuff,you will gradually become evil,it's like lieing,for example you lie one day then again you lie tommorow,and then lie Everyday,gradually you will become a liar who can't live a day without lieing,same thing is going on with Gabriel,akumatising people Everyday has corrupted his mind,he has had done more and more evil and gradually his mind has become corrupted
Exactly! He was! If we're not hating S3 and S4 Chloe for the blatant retcon, we should extend that courtesy to Gabriel. Ugh, everything would have been so much better if Season 2's writers had control of Miraculous.
You mean "eyebrows"
Abusers always use the “this is what I do for you. I love you. This is what you deserve” excuse. This is what they know. That’s it. So as a villain, they did a good job showing what abusers say, unintentionally, of course.
Bruh if he actually revived her wife, she'd be leaving his ass for neglecting their son 🤭
Yeah
That is if she is actually a good person and not the true villain of the series once she wakes up.
YUHHH
@@zerofudou5689 that would be so interesting
As she should
I think my biggest frustration is that the writers are trying to make Gabriel like Mr. Freeze in backstory but characterize him like how Spectacular Spiderman characterized Norman Osborn and in action he's somehow worse than Norman (and Norman literally broke his own sons leg while he had an overdose and passed out to frame him as the Goblin) due the fact that Gabriel is treated as sympathetic cause "mY wIfE iS dEaD" (like he didn't exploit his own sons weakness's to control him more than once)
@Emo Gamer R yeah that's my problem. The writers are trying to make both of those things work (Norman's personality with Mr. Freezes back story) but it doesn't. You either have a deplorable villain or a sympathetic one but the writers can't decide on which so they do both and as you can see. It's garbage
i wrote the same thing 1 day too late I guess
@@swiifareSD he'd break the show
Why doesn't he just use his powers to create a villain with healing powers to save his wife from coma???
@@swiifareSD there is zero limitations to the powers he can give to others.
He's not a sympathetic villain by any means, nor is he a well-written character (Which is almost every character in this show), but I must say that he wasn't wrong about one thing: That Adrien's friends aren't a good influence. I mean, they encourage Marinette and enable her to stalk and obsess over his son. And we're supposed to be rooting for them and believe that they're 'good friends' for doing such a thing 😑
(Although, it adds more to Gabriel's hypocrisy in that he also allows LILA to hang out with Adrien just because he had an alliance with her... an alliance that was barely touched upon because a certain someone hates Chloe's guts so much that he was busy making her as unlikable as he can that he almost forgot that Lila exists)
Everyone in the school besides Nino and Marinette barely knows Adrien. When has Alya or Marinette’s other friends talk to him without Marinette around.
@@Sparklecakes13 Umm just making sure for that reason its still ok to convince someone to stalk em? To invade their privacy? There's also one thing that they could've did and that's asking..
actually Juleka is writen perfectly, like she is Thomas's favourite. Julerose get the most screentime (not counting love square) and development, Juleka got 4 eps for herself( refleka/doll, crocoduel, guiltrip), beautiful, has flaws, best Kwami and outfits (both normal and Purple Tigress)...
@@hoppityhops Exactly. Besides, they never gave him a chance and got to know him better, much less tried to help him with his problems.
@@Sparklecakes13 The fact that they encourage Marinette's behavior towards Adrien means that they're not treating him well because they don't consider his feelings on whether he likes Marinette or not. And even if he did, that doesn't give them the right to encourage her stalkerish tendencies.
Lets be real here, Felix was just vibing in London most of the time, visited paris 3 times and made more of an impact on the plot, had more interesting reasons, didnt have a brain as smooth as gabe.
Chloe is ruined at this point but I still hold hope for Felix to stay consistently awesome. And Lila to step up already and give Nooroo a more competent owner.
Felix sexually harassed ladybug...
@@l-403 we know. They're just saying Felix is a more compelling character. A better character. Not a morally compact person, a good character.
The reason Nooroo is stressed is not bcs he's being used for evil, but bcs his owner is dumber than a goldfish swimmimg in piss
Felix has an impact on the plot? He has interesting reasons? Ha! We don't even know what he wants. We don't know what's important about those rings, or what he was doing in Gabriel Agreste. It meant nothing. All he is is smart. Nothing more. Don't be a hypocrite. 😂
@Bessie Burnet we only saw Felix like only 2 times or something and yet it is still going on so it is normal that we still don't know what he is exactly up to but we had frickin Gabriel for 4 seasons, do you get it?
9:18 “Gabriel hates Adrien”
Knowing now that Adrien existence potentially killed Emilie as she used the peacok miraculous to create him, that statement hits harder and is so close to be true..
//// s5 leaks
Just like colt fathom .. he created Felix not aware of the consequences and hated his son when he found out he was the reason for the sickness. Messed up tbh
I think Gabriel is the perfect metaphor for insanity. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. What does Gabriel do 24/7?
I agree, I think that's the point. He is driven mad with power. He didn't start out as power-hungry but became power-hungry, basically like drugs.
It's like the writers are Fighting in two different factions : One that wants Gabriel as Sympathetic and one that wants him as irredeemable.
I have the suspicious that fandom was starting to like too much Gabriel and understanding him too much to the point they had to say something like "NONO HE'S THE VILLAIN! HE WANTS TO DESTROY THE WORLD AND HATES HIS SON SO STOP LIKING HIM!"
so kinda like Chloe?
@@RobinParravel Basically ya.
@@RobinParravel totally like Chloe!!
@@RobinParravel Not exceptionally love her,but understand her choices.
@@RobinParravel I would say Yellow Diamond, personally.
Gabriel was sympathetic. He really was. But it's just like witth Chloe, you know. He's in the exact same boat as Chloe is with the writer's treatment of them. He was getting depth in season 2, just like Chloe, he was becoming something more. He just wanted to bring his wife back. He showed fear and remorse at the idea of Adrien being Cat Noir. We all saw that episode. He wanted Adrien to be safe, he wasn't some opportunistic villain. But just like they did with Chloe's development, they spat on Gabriel's development and retconned it completely in the next season. Making him not care if Adrien is Cat Noir, and making his goal with the Miraculouses more comically nefarious. He wanted his wife back to life, but apparently he now wants to reshape the universe? Where did that come from? Gabriel is just another victim of Astruc coming back to destroy everything Season 2 did right, a victim of Astruc not wanting his characters be anymore than the one dimensional trait we know them for. Just like Chloe. I can't hate Gabriel when it was there, but then they just decided to blatantly go against what they set up for no reason. Just like I can't hate Chloe for being horrible now. It's a sabotage of his own series. Astruc is just keeping it running on the spot on a treadmill, and with Gabriel is really shows. He's only being a more dramatic villain to fight in this series because it needs to be interesting, but it's still the same old monster of the week format. Wouldn't be a problem if he didn't have lore and motive, and connected to Adrien. But he does, and Astruc doesn't do anything with it. We don't know crap about Emilie, why should we care about her resurrection? As well as the fact the Miraculous duo aren't anywhere close to finding and defeating him. The only attempt to advance that was the Collector, and that was shot right down. Annoying for me as my first episode. And what about everything we saw in Feast?!
The Miraculous writers are sitting on a goldmine, and they'd rather have the surface dirt instead.
GRITALO, MI VIDA. ESTO ES TAN CIERTO
Exactly
Babe, this is a brilliant comment.
You know? At this point I would believe if someone says to me that they’re sabotaging every deep character (Chloe, Gabriel, etc.) because of two reasons:
1.- That would give them the attention Asstruc only wants for his virtual daughter (Marinette)
2.- If Gabriel or Chloe or anybody else is actually a good person inside, they would be good to Adrien. They already are close people to him AND GOD FORBIDS ANY OTHER PERSON IS GOOD TO ADRIEN, cause we all know that Marinette “is the only one that understands Adrien” 🙄
You hit it outta the fucking park!
Astruc really embodies the definition of insanity.
Personally I think Gabriel's current motivation and irrational decisions like trying to destroy entire world, without thinking about his son could be excellently explained If the writers made him unhealthy obsessed over Emilie like Marinette is to Adrien. I know in this scenario I'm putting away concept of sympathetic villain and It couldn't appear in show for young kids, but think about it. Under façade of normal and loving family Gabirel is madly in love with his wife and nothing more matters to him, so when Emilie dies, he's completely devastated and promises himself to bring her back no matter what, or who he have to sacrifice. In this scenario Adrien is nothing more, but constant reminder of dead wife, so he want to keep him close and treats him like his property, a really important one, but still nothing but a thing. That explains why in the time of decision, he doesn't hesitate to use Adrien, Natalie, or anyone for his obsessive love.
But for this to work we would need many literal hints and a few flashback to flesh out unhealthiness of his affection. Also it could be magnificent way to redeem Marinette. When Gabriel's reasons and obsession is showed to heroes, ladybug realizes her mania over Adrien was wrong and can lead to terrible consequences, and finally she let's it go, to build up real healthy relationship.
holy crap, this means they're going the One Piece route where the protagonist and the antagonist are the same but different
honestly, if the last season is all about Marinette overcoming her flaws and learning to let go, to contrast her character development with Gabriel's lack there of, it'd totally make up for all the creepynette moments
Don't take the rewriting the world motive to heart. They're just ruining his motivation to be comically nefarious and have an illusion of danger eith the Miraculouses. That was not how it was set up to be. That is a retcon out of nowhere.
This would be bone chilling wish this was the case it can be applied to characters like lila and Marinette they are the 2 different sides of the same coin
Your description reminds me of Viego from League of Legends. He too was obsessed with bringing his wife from the dead and was ready to sacrifice the entire world. Interestingly his wife, once he put the pieces of her soul together, resented him for using their love as a tool to hurt others and not letting her rest.
It would be amazing if Emily as well would hate Gabriel for putting so many lives in danger (but knowing Miraculous' writer that probably won't happen)
Damn, literally thousands of random strangers on the internet can write a TV show for kids better than "Thomas Twitter main". Yo I really like this!!
At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if Gabriel’s reason for being evil is becoming less about Emilie and is more about because he’s enjoying it more and more 🤦♀️
So Chloé is an emotionally abused child that's completely neglected with barely any good parenting. Yes she would be a bully because there wasn't much positive influences in her life. I could understand why she did the things she did and I have sympathy for the character.
Gabriel just lost his wife but ends up abusing their son. It doesn't seem like he actually loves his son just wants to possess as well as hurt him. The fact the writers want him to be seen as sympathetic while characters like Chloe are seen as straight up evil due to the writer hating blonde girls is weird to me.
#JusticeforChloe
I feel like he could've been a good villain if it wasn't for the fact that he's badly written. Being sad about the death of a loved one and being willing to do anything to bring them back is a very understandable motivation. And still caring about your son makes you very complex together with the motivations. But the issue is that he stops caring about his son when he finds out that he is chat noir. And he also wants to use the miraculous to create a new universe. Like, what?! Anyway, the way he's written is disappointing
@@Poke_Miracle_Owl_Universe they keep rectoning his motivations it's so bad
And whats pathetic to me is Gabi wants to create a new universe just to have his wife in it like what? Why destroy a universe and make a new one with ur wife in it literally destroy a universe, KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE for one person like someone please explain to me 🗿
It would be wayyyyy better if Gabriel needed all the miraculouses instead of two, what with one having time powers and all.
He just needed them all to bring back his wife. Also give him some DAMN standards
@@Poke_Miracle_Owl_Universe oh ok
actually so true lmao
Gabriel is best when he cares for Adrien, it adds a lot to him as a character, and any moment where he _at least_ seemed to care was a great moment for him but, that was ruined by _"Chat Blanc"_ which tosses that out the window, he went from caring about Adrien to willingly tossing Adrien aside for Emilie, and not caring for him in the slightest, it ruins every time he says he's doing it for _"their"_ family, and for _"us"_ by making the multiple people he's referring to _only_ himself, and Emilie... _not_ Adrien... even if it _was_ for Adrien, he'd still be a bad father for not consulting his son about basically _everything_ regarding Emilie...
Adrien doesn't care if his mother is gone, _not to say he doesn't care at all,_ he just wants his father, Adrien has had to deal with his grief alone, and Gabriel has entangled himself in his own grief to the point where he's basically blinding himself from everything else, he doesn't seem to realize that Adrien is upset that he rarely gets to see him, and rather thinks he's doing what's best for Adrien by buying him things, and getting him the best education for things like fencing. Child neglect is still neglect, and to be exact it's _"Emotional Neglect",_ which has an example that goes like this _"Emotionally neglectful parents usually have no idea they neglect their children's emotions."_ which seems to be exactly what Gabriel does... the guy couldn't even bother to get Adrien a _birthday_ gift.
This wouldn't have been _such_ an issue if Gabriel perhaps went through some sort of development like perhaps Emilie is running out of time, and he ends up willing to use his son, that isn't to say he doesn't care for him but, he gets to the point where he's desperate enough to use Adrien for the sake of their _"family",_ and perhaps he even knows what he's doing is wrong or, hitting the point of no return but, can't find it in himself to stop due to his inability to get over his grief but, that just _isn't_ the case sadly.
Shut up and stop talking like Cyrus there’s only 1 Cyrus and it’s not yOu
@@ihatezoelee1103 are you a troll?
There’s multiple types of a villains.
I’ll be discussing two of them.
1. The Psychopath
This is the type of villain that wants power, control, that wants to destroy the world and rule it their way.
This type of villain doesn’t really have a reason to take over the world besides being power hungry, they don’t have an interesting backstory, they just want control.
They don’t have the emotion sadness, they’ve never even experienced it.
They don’t have a weakness, they’re ready to destroy/kill whatever and/or whoever keeps them from achieving their goal(s).
That’s why they’re called “The Psychopath”.
2. The Sympathetic Villain (aka the one we’re supposed to feel sorry for)
This is the type of villain that wants power, control and/or revenge and/or (rarely) wants to destroy the world and rule it their way.
But this type of villain has an interesting backstory and a reason to be evil. Their motive can be very interesting and intriguing. It can be from childhood trauma, the hero or someone once being their friend but then leaving them or betraying them and more.
They have experienced the emotion sadness and that broke them, they still have the sadness in them but they try not to show it.
They have a weakness, they won’t destroy/kill whatever and/or whoever keeps them from achieving their goal(s).
That’s why they’re called “The Sympathetic Villain”.
The mistake that the writers did is trying to combine these two and it doesn’t make sense.
I think Hawkmoth was first trying to be written as a Sympathetic Villain at first, we were supposed feel sympathy for him.
He was a man who was trying to bring his dead wife back to life.
He probably has an interesting backstory, like how and where did he find The Butterfly Miraculous? Why did Emily use The Peacock Miraculous? How did The Peacock Miraculous get broken? But we have almost no info about his backstory.
Another Sympathetic Villain trait that Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth doesn’t have is weakness. He doesn’t have a weakness but if you’re trying to write a Sympathetic Villain they should have one.
For example his weakness could’ve been Adrien.
Since he lost his wife, that could’ve been the reason for isolating his son. But Adrien has been homeschooled for all his life, so if that was the reason, Emily should’ve passed when Adrien was very young.
And since he doesn’t have a weakness, unlike a Sympathetic Villain he’s ready to destroy whatever and kill whoever keeps them from achieving his goal(s).
Chat Blanc is a very good example of that.
I’m okay with him wanting to hurt Ladybug and Cat Noir to get their miraculouses but akumatising your own son to get them is ridiculous.
Isn’t he supposed to be an overprotective father? If he is, why would he ignore the probability of his son potentially hurting himself from getting akumatised?
You can argue and say “No one has hurt themself from getting akumatised.” but even if hurting yourself is impossible from getting akumatised that isn’t the only problem.
He USED his son, like a puppet or a soldier. He didn’t even see him as his son, he saw him as an easy way of getting the miraculouses. If Adrien was his weakness, when he found out he was Cat Noir this whole time, he’d have a mix of emotions, not an idea of akumatising his own son.
Personally, I would’ve been okay if Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth was a Sympathetic Villain, who had an interesting backstory and his weakness was Adrien.
And I also would’ve been okay if Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth was a Psychopath who didn’t have an interesting backstory, had no weakness, who was ready to destroy whatever and kill whoever keeps them from achieving his goal(s).
But trying to mix these two doesn’t make sense.
The writers retconned everything in Season 3. Don't fall for it. Don't take it to heart. It's a scam. He is still sympathetic. He still cares for Adrien. This is not the Gabriel that was set up. It's just like with Chloe. Ignore this blatant sabotage.
Okay, just curious: What do yo think Felix is? Is he a sympathetic villain? If you can even call him a real "villain". :)
There is another type of villain that I call the ''hero-villain''. The type of villain that hurts others or do bad thing/ questionable things for a ''greater good'' or what the villain thinks it's the greater good. One could be the main antagonist of Made in Abyss because he's torturing children to ''save humanity''. He's basically insane or lost his humanity even if he had a good intention at first. I wouldn't call him a psycho because he has a motive more than just revenge or sadism. Another one could be Eren from AOT, but this one is extremely controversial.
While gabby fails the joker succeded cuz how society work
@@berserker3414 There’s a lot of different villain types. I only explained two of them because I think Gabriel is in the middle of both.
But I don’t think Gabriel is a “hero-villain”. To be honest I would’ve been okay if he was a “hero-villain” because they’re enjoyable to watch. But watching Gabriel is just frustrating.
It’s astonishing how Thomas Astruc wanted Gabriel to be the sympathetic villain and Chloe the irredeemable villain and someone made Chloe a somewhat fan favorite and aGabeiel a smooth brain with cartoonishly bad luck when he’s smart
Genuine Healthy romantic feelings are rare in MLB. It's pretty much just toxic obsession all the way around 😩
I want an episode where Gabriel gets his wish, brings Emily back. I want to see Emily being a character and Gabriel would live a “happy” life with her but without Adrien because Gab had to kill him to achieve his goal. After Emily finds out what he had to do to achieve this, Emily is shocked and furious and rejects Gab. Gab is left there stunned and about to cry since he lost his son and the love of his life. Then Bunnix shows up seeing him cry, and tells asks him if he would like a second chance to fix his mistakes while he still can. Gab agrees but he has to give up his miraculouses to do so. She brings him back to the past (in our normal view the present). And Gab isn’t hawkmoth anymore, and hugs Adrien tightly. He knows he is Chat Noir but doesn’t care, and starts becoming a better father after that and accepts that he cannot bring his wife back.
THIS. Sure what he did is incredibly not okay but if he is a good person who really regretted his decision even for the love of his life Emily does not want him any longer, it means his life is just starting to be bad or good. My mom is the example of that, overprotective and bad parenting but what she did and took my happiness away made me incredibly more rebellious and stopped caring about love stuff. My resentment for her grew larger than her sickness, I don't really care for her if she's very willing to take my change of life. Changing school because I don't feel safe, won't make me grow up and treat me as a CHILD. I am 16 years old! Of course I still have lot ways to go, but that doesn't make me nurture or growing up in discipline way! It just makes me so mad to the point I'm dreaming of how to kill her.
That's y script writing is for grown ups
@@jamalakinade8175 yeah lol sorry, I am not a great writer, I just want an episode where we get to see his wish.
@@amanekaze What the fuck...
@@justice8718 Well I am sorry that I have a mind of psychopath, maybe you should've blame on my borderline personality disorder instead 🤔
It’s so funny to me how Gabriel can’t move on from his wife’s death/unconsciousness/whatever, but Amelie(I think that was her name, just Felix’s mother yknow) also lost her sister(maybe husband too idk), yet she’s still able to make normal decisions and love her son😻 Be like Amelie, not Gabriel
Yeah y'all! Everyone grieves but you eventually gotta move on and not become a literal villain unless you wanna be like Gabriel Agreste 🤷♀️ Just saying.
0:01 this is the best lip sync so far in March 👌😂
Fun Fact: Lila’s “A girl doesn’t need a costume to be amazing, you know!” line has teached me a better lesson than all the Miraculous Ladybug episodes combined (expect for season 2)
Chloe- a literal child with an emotionally abusive mother lashing out because she's hurting/reasonably hurt from said abuse
ML: "oh she's unredeemable"
Gabriel- a grown man who abuses his son and consciously decides to hurt other people to evilize them because he's so stuck bringing his wife back from death
ML: "oh he's a good guy he's got hope of being better"
logic- is gone.
Tho in a serious note, I always viewed Gabriel's thing as like what goes on in The Willoughbys, parents with so much love but not for their children- just for each other. Gabriel having all his love but its only for HER, no one else and never had been, so he becomes mad from his grief- but thanks to the miraculous he became powerhungry too and began using his grief as a mental validation for his actions.
he'd be more- in a way, sympathetic like that, because then things are actually a bit more understandable- like the My Strange Addiction shows, it starts out from something traumatic but becomes something else completely that begins affecting those around them. He'd be a man stuck in his delusional mind, afraid to accept reality and the exact awfulness of what he's done because "she'll be back and the world will be perfect because she and I will be together, thats all that matters", all while he's knowingly tormenting children and even a baby-
though yeah the show is trying to present just him being sad his wife is dead as what makes him a sympathetic villain itself and less what they have actually built up which is- sad
This entire show is inconsistent in their characters. If you look at a show like ATLA, every episode has an important purpose and it cannot be avoided. Each episode either develops the characters, the world around them, or the plot as a whole.
But in MLB, the show just explores and either regresses or just loops back around and doesn't go anything.
Actually there is one consistent thing about MLB. They are consistently inconsistent with everything in this show.
So the writers are meaning to tell me that an adult who abuses his own child and literally caused the end of the world twice and possibly three times after strike back is more redeemable then a teenage girl?
Well since they redeemed Jagged Stone, I'll take that as a yes.
LITERALLY
@@itspienoon7883and Chloe's father🤡
WHY DID THE INTRO FIT SO PERFECTLY LMAO 💀😭
i just think that his character would be a lot better if he had a GOOD motive instead of "oh no my wife is dead I'm just gonna go terrorize an entire city instead of accepting her death and move on" like maybe the writers should try to make gabriel at least more likable instead of making his entire personality being a cold ass and caring about his dead wife more than his alive and well son
He would've been much better if he didn't have his son that way people would be sympathetic towards him as they'd be like oh he lost his wife he doesn't have children he doesn't have anyone no family no friends he's got nothing to lose as he's already lost everything
Gabriel is stubborn, and he don't accept change, I can tell that is a congruent with his character that he don't want to move forward. But It still isn't enough, we don't have context about why he is able to do all this for her, we haven't had a real reason that justifies his actions.
She was nice, good. But why he is doing this? Why if he fixed the peacok miraculous he did not create a sentiEmilie for him, because if he is mad enough to manipulate his own son and is willing to create the 3rd WW. Well man, do a senti of your beloved.
He in many times showed intentions of surrender... To only came back to the duty without hesitation, man, if You really had doubts at this point (Risk) Made a senti of Emilie to have the opinion of your memories of her.
And, with all the awful things that Gabriel made, still missing an answer, If Emilie a Goddess or something? Why is she so special? She made him the man he is today? She is the most loving and a the pure soul in the universe? She is his goddes of his cult? He wanted to bring her back because he knows that Adrien needs a mom!? No.
Theres no justification or explanation about why is so crazy for this. (And acting like a dumb when he tries to create a villian like the baby or Mr. Pidgeon)
Welp, that was the case in Season 2, but just like with Chloe, Astruc can't have his character development beyond the one dimensional traits established from day 1.
A cool plotline could've been Gabriel taking Marinette on as an apprentice which would give Marinette a reason to be in the story besides being Ladybug.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 Oh rayos, si
It's interesting to see that the main character (Marinette) and the antagonist kinda have the same problem. They cannot let go and are obsessed with two people. Marinette is obsessed with Adrien and Gabriel is obsessed with Emily. That's interesting writing but doesn't help making the audience like the heroine once you've understood this
It's funny how his willing to erase the universe and create a new one just to bring back his wife. And man I thought marinette was the biggest simp in mlb
Don't take the rewriting the world motive to heart. They're just ruining his motivation to be comically nefarious and have an illusion of danger eith the Miraculouses. That was not how it was set up to be. That is a retcon out of nowhere.
How does caring for his wife make him a simp
@@Twat_Dirt well instead of moving on he choose to destroy the current universe basically killing every human and replacing them in the new universe where what he wish come true
@@bessieburnet9816 i'm glad that isn't just me that find that they ruined his motivation. I was even wanting him to win until they say that "ThE wHoLe WoRlD wiLL bE rEWrited", if this was the case why didn't the writers explained that before?
Gabriel Agreste : BooHoo my wife's dead
Me: Everyone have lost their family.That doesn't mean you have to be so dump af
Gabriel is also the *DUMBEST* Villain!
Think about it, he has the power to grant powers to other people, and HE gets to pick the powers, so why doesn't he just make a wish-granting genie villain to get what he wants? He could have the Miraculouses in an instant, or just cut out the middle man and just wish his wife back directly
Maybe we haven't reached that point yet.
@@emircanozad914 reached that point yet? Gabriel can akumatize HIMSELF, he doesn't need to terrorise Paris or have ONE person ONCE a day to get angry, he can just akumatize himself and then BOOM, grants himself the power to heal and bring back his dead wife!
@@itspienoon7883 There is a possibility the effects will be reversed once he de akumatizes himself.
There must be a reason why he is after the LB and cn's miraculous.
@@emircanozad914 while that is true that an akumatized person loses their powers once the akuma is gone, what's stopping him from strengthening his powers so it still stays active?
The writers didn't think. There are many of the Miraculouses that could get the job done soooo easily. The writers really don't hear themselves when they try to spice it up and make it look cool. It's cool, but Ladybug, Hawkmoth and the Rooster could definitely end this with their powers.
Some good plot points for Gabriel (If the Thomas would friggin do something) could be:
1.) He hates Adrian because Adrian is a constant reminder of his wife, his pain, and he wants to be with a good dad to Adrian but it just pains too much to even look at him and he knows he’s failing his son and Gabriel thinks the only way he can love his son is to bring Emily back
2.) He’s been trying to form Adrian to be the most perfect person ever because Gabriel’s wife Emily seemed perfect in his eyes and since Adrian reminds Gabriel of Emily whenever Adrian get’s something wrong Gabriel takes it to heart and feels like Adrian is disrespecting Emily
I find a couple things ironic, One Is that Gabriels VA(Keith Silverstein) in real life is actually a Good dad.
And also Keith happens to voice act for some shit Dads like Masayoshi Shido(Persona5),Professor Tomeo (Sailor Moon Manga/Crystal), and IDK if this counts but Chairman Rose (Pokemon Twilight Wings).
I will forever enjoy Keith's voice as the Geo Archon Zhongli in Genshin Impact.
@@Justin-ui5ti And the fact Zhongli is a better written character than Astruc’s show main “villain”.
@@rcl4737 Ha. Trying to compare them is just comedic to me.
Gabriel was so inconsistent. They couldn’t keep his character in balance. They don’t address the fact that he deliberately gaslights, neglects, and abuses his son.
I bet that somehow he isn’t going to face consequences, Emile will somehow return, and they all live happily ever after.
@@Justin-ui5ti I mean as the actor. I was agreeing that he’s a pretty good voice actor and it’s a shame he voices a character who’s has no development put into him.
Hawk Moth/Gabriel: damn brat i'll sue >:(
At the beginning he was very interesting but later on he just started to become a joke villain. Gabriel’s arc should’ve ended with what happened after Style Queen, make him realise what he’s doing is wrong and is affecting his own son. Make him try and move on from his wife and spend more time with his son and being a better father instead of neglecting him. But no, the writers don’t know how to write a good antagonist/parent. :/
They don't know how to write a good anything. This is exactly what they did with Chloe.
I just had a realization:
If Gabriel is going to destroy the world, knowing it’ll kill everyone including Adrien, why did he have that sympathetic moment in Gorizilla?
If Adrien did die by splattering on the ground, why would it matter to him? He could just get the miraculous & destroy the world & wish it anew with Emillie & Adrien in it alive?
It's a retcon. Like so many other things. Don't take it to heart. The writers deliberately destroyed it. Rewriting the world was not how Gabriel was set up, and he was also set up to love his son. Don't fall for it. It's a scam.
S I K E
Planet : explodes
Gabriel: listen man my wife is dead
Natalie points out in season 5 that while he starts out as a sympathetic villain, his constant obsession drove him to insanity and it became more of a drive for victory than for family.
this felt like Thomas getting too lazy to write Gabriel and just killing him off.
imagine he revives his wife but being dead messed with her mind and she sees flashes of her old life and wants it back so she slowly becomes the real villain as her mind slowly deteriorates
I still can't believe they made Chloe looks so beautiful as Queen Bee and then just said nah 🤬
LoL Gabriel is the real "Irredeemable" here not a freaking 15 year old who's being expressed hate by a grown up yet childish creator that go boo hoo on Twitter!
@@victorivluis6045
Thomas's fragile ego is why Chloe & this show is terrible.
Exactly chloe deserves better maybe some day, her character will be in the hands of people that can write competently and she can have a good story.
These videos are better then the entire show
lmao
I love this videos
lmao true
Imagine the writers give Gabe a happy ending…I’m hoping on ✨prison time✨
Mhhh....
My child how do I explain this to you...?
@@vennystupiddeer2003 Don't tell me...
@@joseleonardofarfanperez2838
Want me to be honest or I keep it to my self?
@@vennystupiddeer2003 Na, I'm joking. I already know. Still, very disappointing
@@vennystupiddeer2003
Brooooo I know he dies and is considered as hero😀 I’m shocked
Felix is my favourite charecter, just because it's absolutely hilarious to me that he's able to outsmart all of the charecters in the show, just because he has common sense.
He’s the smartest one.
If only the miraculous ladybug writers saw this video before the end of season 5 😔😭
What bothers me is that Gabriel rarely seems to have an emotional connection with Adrien, yet claims he's working in Adrien's best interests.
That's because he's a narcissist.
The fact that Gabriel could've been such an amazing villan, but he was sadly wasted with horrible writing is such a shame. It sucks.
The Mystery of Emily Agreste's death/coma was definitely confirmed in Risk. She probably died/in a coma due to her using the Peacock Miraculous to create Adrien.
It was confirmed in "Ladybug".
Someone once said Chloe was supposed to represent someone who just is too stuck in their ways to change, or is unwilling to change. This character type actually works better for Gabriel, because Chloe was gonna change and shows that she can be a better person (and she's 14 so it's hard damn her to being unable to change.) Gabriel, on the other hand, has shown that he can't change, and is so obsessed with bringing his wife back that part of him probably thinks it's too late to turn back.
And I do think he loves Adrien, but love =/= good treatment. He's definitely an abusive father who hurts his son, whether unintentionally or because he thinks it's tough love, and it makes him a bad person.
I agree
2:27 I cared until the god awful S5 finale transpired, Gabe literally had the two miraculous he was trying to get for 5 fucking seasons and doesn’t even bring back his wife when that was his stupid ass goal?! He instead decides to make Adrien an orphan and say “Nathalie is your new mom because I don’t want to raise you anymore” like huh? I legit wanted to drop the show but decided to stick around but pretend the Emilie doesn’t exist (she is a mere plot device not a character) Amilie is an only child and a milf, she never had a twin sister. Adrien never had a mom up until Nathalie decided to adopt him,Gabe is a single dad and never had a wife and Felix never had an aunt. Emilie Agreste? Never heard of her! Honestly I’m shocked that I cared for this long. In conclusion, Emilie Agreste never existed.
I still remember in season 1, he once said he'll use the Miraculous to rule the world.
I don't care if that's a writing error or not, it's a sign he plans more than just saving his wife.
He has stated that countless times he's just a boring, dull and generic world domination villain
I liked Gabriel from the first moment. I can understand him, yes we don't know much about his wife but the fact that he lost her makes his actions understandable. Losing his wife is painful, as a viewer you don't have to know her, knowing that she is his wife and that he loves her is enough. If you look at real life it's the same, if you hear that someone has lost their wife you feel sorry, whether you know her or not.
I also like that Gabriel has moments where he's there for Adrien and abandons his plan for him.
Gabriel is the only one who respects Chloe, besides Adrien. he has called her special and called her queen. he said he won't akumatize her anymore, but he did anyway which shows he thinks highly of her.and he defended her from lila.
i like all those things, i also like the fact that he's clever.
these are the reasons why i still like him, but i have to say that they did some things wrong with him in the new episodes.
This comment is why I still found Gabriel likable throughout the nonsense.
I also feel sad about Chloe being absolutely ruined by the creator having a temper tantrum over Chloe having redemption and being more realistic than any other character (aside from Gabriel, and maybe Adrien) in the entire show.
I didn't like her at first, but her reasoning made her relatable, in a way. I wasn't mean from my mistreatment, but she still was relatable in some aspects and I could honestly see a kid like Chloe existing out there. And for Thomas to insist anyone mean is always mean just hurts, it's an awful message to kids to tell them that. Went off track, I just felt the need to mention her, too.
Overall, Miraculous could've been a incredible show. I hope someone rewrites the entire show someday and makes it far better so it isn't entirely butchered.
That is a good point. But yet again, Gabriel isn’t a real life person, he’s a character, and his motivation needs to be clear. Sure, he lost his wife, and that’s sad, but it isn’t enough to horn in the fact that we’re supposed to be sympathising with him. We need a backstory, to see how Emalie and Gabe met, even see what personality Emalie had or how she got into the coma, that would’ve made more emotional impact than seeing her do nothing in a coffin. We know nothing of this woman or what she was to Adrien or Gabriel, Cyrus is right, she is a plot device, so why should we care about a plot device?
Also, I honestly don’t think Gabriel is that intelligent. He repeats the same mistakes, and only few times does he actually think through his strategies, and he doesn’t even do it by himself, Natalie mostly comes up with the plans.
@@megakittenex i feel you so deamn much. I totally agree, I feel sorry for Chloe too. There are children like her out there, if the parents don't do their job properly, the child suffers a lot. you can see that with Chloe.
Yeah, i wish someone would rewrite the show, it has so much potential but is wasting it.
@@laris_life Exactly! Showing kids that 'mean' kids don't change is awful, what if one of those kids is a die-hard fan, having relied on Chloe's situation as support? It's not okay, it's messed up to do that, even if it's fictional. Thomas doesn't deserve the respect he has for things like his idiotic childhood 'trauma' that lead to him creating Chloe for the sake of getting back at his bullies. I only still watch this show because I want to see the ending, really.
@@megakittenex Absolutely! Shows are meant to teach kids, but this show is teaching them the wrong things. I know people who haven't gotten the attention they need at home or who get bullied at home. When I found that out I understood why they do what they do. that's what understanding others is all about. when you do that, it's easier for you, but also for others. children should learn that mean people can change too (chloe has shown that it works).
wait, he gets respect for that? "I had trauma so now I'm traumatizing a character I created myself,,. how does that make sense?
I had a theory once that what if Emily was pregnant the time she used the peacock miraculous which also weakened her even more and in result, giving her a deep coma and Gab hating Adrien....? but nah
he cared for him like twice
I swear the story this show has is messy af💀
You can see on some pictures that Adrien was already a teenager when she was still here, so her coma/death is still recent.
@@jujublue4426 yeah exactly
her pregnancy and the miraculous *weakened* her resulting in coma when she couldn't take it anymore
so basically, her body gave up at some point of time just not right after she gave birth to Adrien
That was a pretty good theory though
Just realised that if Adrien never had any birthday... That means that Emily never gave him one either?? And we're supposedly to think of her as angelic?
IKR THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN THINKING also the fact Adrien only got a pen every birthday until the one in Bubbler even when Emilie was alive so I genuinely doubt the "nice and caring" description they give her
Weird how the accidentally gave Chloe, who was never supposed to be developed developement, but then fail at the ones they do want to be developed.
Pinocchio's voice in the start is pretty much the whole relationship of Adrien and Gabriel 😆😆
I know what I’m about to comment has nothing to do with Gabriel
But the fact that some marishit simps are literally excusing her behaviour of stalking Adrien is absolutely disgusting, like do they know what she’s done? Have they SEEN Chat blanc and puppeteer 2? And their excuse is “Adrien is blind”💀💀
And Marri shoots herself in the foot she’s had many chances to tell him how she feels then she stutters and flatters around sending weird messages to adrien how dosent understand cause he was homeschooled most of his life
The same way people defend Cat Noir harassing Ladybug.
@@bessieburnet9816 His harassment is actually acknowledged tho and he apologizes and he realizes that he's being pushy, him going back to square one every episode of him harassing ladybug is just Thomas' bad writing, but there was no point in time creepynette's actions where confronted which makes her worse and more unlikable
@Jeff do you realise how hypocritical marishit/ ladybitch is being?
•Said to cat noir that they can’t reveal their identities, but she tells alya
•Doesn’t give a miraculous to Chloe because hawk moth knows her identity, but he knows carapace, Rena rouge, viperion, ryuko, Pegasus, king monkey etc. and still let’s them be heroes
Here are more points that she’s a total creep:
•Stalked Adrien to Shanghai
•stole his phone
•knows his timetable off by heart for like years
•Sabotaged Kagami in animaestro
•Stole kagami’s phone and was looking on it
•Sniffed Adrien’s pillow
•Has birthday gifts for Adrien for all his birthdays
•Always makes passion fruit macaroons for Adrien because she knows that’s his favourite
Yeah…I don’t know what you’re even talking about at this point. Your clearly a marishit and ladybitch simp.
@Lead Walker i acknowledge that Adrien has mistakes
BUT MARINETTE
HER MISTAKES WERE NEVER
EVER
ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE SHOW
(writing this before the vid so I don't forget so sorry if Cyrus addressed this)
Something that baffled me about Gabriel was the fact they changed his wish. Initially, he just wanted to bring Emilie back which is understandable. Plus, the cost of that wish would be the death of _one_ person. But now, he wants to create an entire universe where he and Em can never be apart????? Wtf? If they wanted him to be a sympathetic villain, why change his goal from costing one person to costing *_billons?_* And why make him care so little about Adrien? It makes Emilie look like a bad person, too.
I think it's so Emilie will never be in a coma again.
The writers retconned everything in Season 3. Don't fall for it. Don't take it to heart. It's a scam. He is still sympathetic. He still cares for Adrien. He doesn't want to rewrite the world, he just wants to revive his wife. This is not the Gabriel that was set up. It's just like with Chloe. Ignore this blatant sabotage.
well to be fair the miraculous wish destroys the current world and rebuilds it so why not add that along with bringing back emille
He has absolutely no excuse to cause the apocalypse twice.
what a sentence XD
I hope in a few years down the line, Miraculous Ladybug gets a reboot where they rewrite the story and characters to follow a consistent plot with consistent character personalities and character arcs. As much as I love this show, at this point its about just waiting for the dumpster fire to release some golden moments. This show has so much potential but it suffers from so much inconsistencies and backtracking. I seriously hope it gets a reboot like ducktales to get a properly fleshed out story in the end.
It is sad. The relationships had so much potential for growth and change. Instead they dumbed down everyone.
They failed to develop people across episodes and instead made it into formulas.
Look at ATLA.
Every single episode allowed for development and also adding depth to each character and also advancing the plot in a clear direction.
Now MLB is not that.
Gabriel’s voice actor sounds like a text to speech translator
Really? Everyone loves his voice in genshin impact
I liked him in the first My Hero Academia movie.
Hmm, must be the bad voice direction.
@@entropy2134 yeah it's sounds so smooth
Keith Silverstein sounds great in his other roles, probably the voice direction
I hate the whole "the universe will be destroyed!1!1!1!1!" Just make him lose adrien in reviving his wife. It makes way more sense.
I think the write made up the whole “destroy the universe” thing to make Gabriel a bigger. In season 2 Master Fu said if someone make a wish, then someone opposite of the wish must occur to keep eternal balance. In season 1,2,3 Gabriel reason was to bring back his wife, so either Adrien or Natalie would had be sacrificed to keep balance. The whole destroying the universe wish only appear in season 4! It wasn’t his original wish! This is so to justify why Chat Noir can’t reveal his identity to Ladybug because the world will end! It’s stupid!
@@yawagavlo3178 exactly.
Don't take the rewriting the world motive to heart. They're just ruining his motivation to be comically nefarious and have an illusion of danger eith the Miraculouses. That was not how it was set up to be. That is a retcon out of nowhere.
@@bessieburnet9816 honestly its hard to tell with this show nowadays 💀
Wait I haven’t watched season 4 yet. Really, THAT’S what they’re going for? If reviving his wife will destroy the universe, then _why would he do that_ ?! Both he and is wife are in the universe?!
The video started and I immediately snorted, this was so unexpected but fitting.
Can't wait to watch the whole video. It's gonna be great.
If you thought Gabriel was a terrible parent before just wait until season 5. Especially the last few episodes of season 5. They make Season 1-3 Gabriel look like father of the year by comparison.
Has anyone here read the miraculous fanfic dear son where Gabriel rethinks his parenting of Adrien if not you should try it sometime it’s nice but the ending is kinda unsatisfying I won’t spoil it for you
It’s funny. Today I had a dream about him. About him once again abusing his own child (only this time I was there) to point of nearly driving him into suicide. At that point I said to him right in his face to just “F*** OFF!”
Oh wow,what a coincidence
Hey, maybe you're predicting the future:))
Well said 👏
Wow.. I like you already (°д°)...
I had literally the exact same dream!
It’s a shame really, Gabriel could have been one of the best written and complex characters in the show but the writers don’t know how to write an interesting antagonist.
Some part of me hopes we get a prequel series about him which develops him but I feel like that would ruin his character more.
They don't know how to write characters at all, they can't even agree ( Chloe's redemption put to trash, Gabriel showing some care for his son until Chat Blanc when he has no problem putting his son in danger and using him for his own goals...)
They don't know how to write interesting anything. If only Season 2's writers have control of everything Miraculous.
@@bessieburnet9816 too bad, the guy who handle season 2 was quit or even got fired by asturd.
The whole hating your kid but loving your wife angle could work; maybe Adrian never met his mom cause she died during childbirth.
Gabriel could be at war with himself, trying to connect with the child his wife left behind while also blaming that son for her death (this would make the situation in Chat Blanc more believable).
Maybe he can be inadvertently comparing Adrian to Emily and trying to mold him into a replacement; he sees some traits that he loved about Emily in Adrian (i.e. she could've played the piano or compete in fencing).
If we want to go even more dark, Gabriel could've been the reason behind Emily's state, having him treat her like he does with Adrian is a form of domestic abuse; isolating her from the outside and friends, controlling her life, having his people monitor her whenever she went out. All of it could've stressed her out and lead to a heart condition and maybe premature birth. Gabriel could've been delusional with everything being fine until Adrian was born.
None of these make Gabriel sympathetic, but they're more compelling then "it's all about family" 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Thing is, destroying the world wasn't originally a "package deal" (shall we say) of making a wish via the LB and CN Miraculous. If you recall the Season 2 episode "Robustus", there it was said that making a wish causes something of equal value to die or disappear so as to balance things out. It's very obvious the writers changed that for Season 4 so as to add more drama to the thing, but it doesn't. It's just like what was said on a episode of Chilean puppet series "31 Minutos": the world ends, but then an identical world (or almost identical in the case of this trainwreck of a series) forms, so no one realizes it - or gives a d*mn about.
Gabriel giving up on being Hawkmoth, and then immediately going back to it, is actually a very believable, futile attempt of breaking with obsession, made by a fraction of reasonable mind left. I know, because I experienced it. One day I say to myself that it's pointless, that it just hurts me, and those around me, I go out and reconcile with others, do one or two decent things. The same fu****g day I go back to it, because I simply am not able to function otherwise. Obsession is mostly overlooked as a character flaw, while in reality it's a nasty, disgusting disease. I am not saying it's making Gabriel a better person, but I do think that it was a very realistic moment in the show.
Exactly
Yeah,I don't care if his wife is dead. Okay,I may feel sorry for Gabriel but God I wish he's interesting and at least smart. Not the less,he should have care for Adrien like a father should be and move on from his wife's death. A villain is no excuse neglecting their child. Look at doofenshmirtz,he may be a supervillain and have a sad past but at least he try to care for his daughter and also having had a divorce but somehow accurate. Everytime perry and doofenshsmirtz fight,I love it because perry will try to teach him how to care for his daughter. Okay,that's what a good villain dad should be. Even a villain,he won't akumatize a child and a baby but he did that anyway because he runs out of ideas. What's next? He's gonna send an akuma to a fish or or a desk? I dare him to try to akumatize animals and inaminate objects. I dare him because it will be even funnier. And more hilarious. Hah,sometimes I want him to akumatize water.
"While abusing his son emotionally" and physically too in chat blanc before even akumatizing him how did he get to the Eiffel Tower? Did they battle it out until then? (Which would've been just as bad on its own) no, gabe straight up used a cane to fucking launch chat (which he knows is his own son) into the Eiffel Tower WHICH IS WHO KNOWS HOW MANY MILES AWAY this among many other reasons is why I started to hate this man and I'll continue to do so
A home one I might add
You know what would have fixed “Chat Blanc” for me?
Gabriel finding out that Adrien is chat AND actually being concerned.
Like:
Nathalie: (she, also surprised and at some point, terrified of what would Gabriel do with the information) Sir… your… your son…
Hawk Moth: WHATS GOING ON NATHALIE?! SPIT IT OUT!
Nathalie: (scared) Your son… He is… Chat Noir.
At this point, everything falls in Gabriel’s mind. He didn’t expect that. It is the hardest thing to realize, cause if that’s real, then he would have fighting his own son, HIS ONLY SON, the only person in his life that is as same as important as Emily to him.
He frees the akuma willingly and de-transforms.
Later, in the night, he’s with Nathalie, alone in a room:
Gabriel: Nathalie… please… I have to know… Did you really see Adrien as…?
Nathalie: … you didn’t know it. No one of us did. It is… (silence). What do we do next?
Gabriel: … it was Adrien Natalie… all this time… I’ve been fighting my son all along…
Natalie: …it’s not your faul-
Gabriel: IT IS MY SON NATALIE! I ALMOST KILLED MY OWN SON! I-I thought that I was keeping him safe, but I don’t even know him, I don’t know where he is, and he’s been taking care of Paris… he’s… my son is a hero… he… he should have take it from his… from Emily.
Nathalie …Sir…
Gabriel: (Sobbing) … I’m a horrible person Natalie… I’m a terrible father…
Maybe in later episodes Gabriel will struggle with the fact that his son is his enemy, but in a deeper way. He would try to be a better dad, he would try to know him better, maybe at the beginning he would still want the miraculous but he would try to get it from Adrien from winning his confidence, but from then on, he would learn more about Adrien and will question himself if he still wants to b Hawk Moth.
Ooooh very interesting and makes Gabriel actually sympathetic 😃👍
I honestly have to say this should've been what the writers should've written
The fact that Emilie isn't even a character at this point, but just a plot device for Gabriel to play his role makes things so much worse. We know nothing about her aside from her being "sweet and kind" like every other character in the MLB universe.
I still remember a Peacock Miraculous user being teased called "Le Paon" who looks exactly like Emilie, but nothing came out of it. We know they're not Nathalie as Mayura because they look nothing alike. Still hoping that Emilie somehow gets revived and uses her Miraculous in some way to make the story semi-interesting again.
He really should’ve actually given up being the villain the first time it looked like he would, so someone else could steal his powers to become the new main antagonist. While he finds some other way to save his wife.
You know what would've made Gabriel more sympathetic? If over the series, it'd show that Emilie was extremely manipulative and controlling but Adrien knows, and Gabriel is just a victim of hers and is influenced by her controlling-ness, thus why he's so controlling and manipulative towards Adrien. Then after she died, he would fall into such a craze that without her, he believes that he can't do anything, thus giving us a real reason as to why Gabriel wants to bring her back SO DAMN BAD, that he'd be willing to sacrifice his entire city and fight two teenagers constantly for their jewelry.
Thats what they tried to do with
Chloes dad and it backfired
Terribly.
@@elongatedmanforever1252 Terribly.
@@Culo_Sniffin_Cheezit
Yep.
I think Gabriel would’ve been better off having an episode featuring younger him and his wife. If it was something like his wife entrusting him with a mission I would’ve already been satisfied.
At this point how it’s written makes me feel as though Gabriel does evil stuff for the sake of being evil using his wife as an excuse. If he ends up killing Adrien (which won’t happen bc its a kids show and I’m getting needlessly annoyed over this huge L), I have a feeling Gabriel wouldn’t even be remorseful, just “For the greater good” type beat. It wouldn’t even move the storyline further or improve it in anyway but y’know, if they ever want to get rid of Adrien and add a new ML that can actually slap some common sense and respect for other’s boundaries into Marinette that’d be fine too.
I noticed that Gabriel Agreste and Zhongli from genshin impact sound almost exactly alike...
*THEY SHARE A VOICE ACTOR.*
Lol ikr, keith silverstain..
at this point nathalie and gorilla are the only parent figures Adrien has
THE FACT THAT GORILLA HAS NO NAME 💀💀💀💀💀💀
9:24 - "I'm doing this for her, Adrien. For you, for us!"
John Marston: I've never heard so much sh*t come out of one mouth.