Do You Need A Subwoofer In Your Studio
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2021
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Setting your sub up properly doesn't make it go "BOOM BOOM BOOM" It simply allows extension of you bass response and allows you to hear to level of bass that you are adding. If you don't use one you might overdo the bass levels to compensate for the lack of bass response available in your monitors. You can't hear the kick drum on a kit or low basd guitar notes properly without one, they just don't come through.
I have a sub, in a treated room and get really good results. My room is not big (9 x 14) so I keep the sub level as low as possible. Just enough to hear the low rumble. I also use the sub’s high pass filter which helps my satellite speakers. I think subs are great if your room is treated and the speakers are setup correctly..
I agree with you! You even (unknowingly) repeated something I learned in a Critical Listening Class at Berklee College of Music. You said that it’s better to mix in rectangular or odd shaped rooms, not square shaped ones. We learned that at Berklee!
I am going to review more videos on your channel, you are very knowledgeable!
I have a sub in my studio. I like it. I don't care for mixing without it. It's not an extreme thing and it's taken a LOT of time to make it sound right, especially in my small room. I have listened to a LOT of reference material in here and know wat it sounds like. I have a pretty SQUARE room, but I've made it kind of less than square by putting my mix position to be kind of in the middle of the room and slightly tilted from corner. So, it's definitely an "odd shaped" room and has some treatment. I'm always working to make the room sound like my other sources (i.e. car). I'm using Yamaha MSP5 speakers and an M-Audio Sub. It's a lot of work to get it to work right. But it's worth it to me. I like music to sound awesome in my room and if produced stuff sounds great in here, so should the stuff I'm doing - or something it wrong. Thanks for the video.
My Genelec 7050Cs are an integral part of my product completion result,
Admittedly mostly sales related so the check writers feel what they will in a club
Of course this is genre related but lots of my clientele over the last 15 years or so have been home producers that are psyched about their laptop FL Studio or Garage Band masterpiece and want to take it to the top level without a Berkeley degree or emptying their piggy banks on “all that analog gear” that so many of us love to buy
I agree with you when mixing I don’t turn them on
I never mix with cans only use them to reference “those” areas that give my older ears trouble,
I will use visual tools, scopes that I know will translate true
But yeah you bring in potentials or talent that want to hear that finished bit
A little mood lighting , multiple displays, mechanical mixer sliding all over the place, a frivolous sweep test, then the mid or far fields come on with the subs, up the level a few Db
And smiles abound
Often I’ll pass around a
djtt Midi Fighter 3D and program the gyroscope and compass to allow folks to hold and simply tilt the midi controller to hear different room IRs or filter controls including those 20db earth shakers and soon they are selling themselves
Composing whole show ideas down to the lighting right in front on us
It’s the entertainment business after all and I personally don’t even enjoy EDM but you can’t argue with results and word of mouth keeps me working
Affordable studio monitors start responding from around 80-100Hz up to 22KHz. If you make lots of mistakes that cause low-end buildup, (Forgot to apply high pass on some channels) It is impossible to identify the problem with your ears, as those cheap monitors still SOUND GOOD, HIDE THE PROBLEM.
You won't buy the studio subwoofer to enjoy the music. Instead, you should detect low-end problems and fix them, make your track ready for massive speaker systems.
Hum, the majority of well known and respected mix engineers mix solely with NS10’s to this day. I’ve been mixing without using a Sub for decades. Yes I have one, that only gets turned on if I’m watching videos in the studio.
If you learn your monitors, regardless of price, you’ll be able to effectively mix your music.
I use Adam A7V s with Adam Sub10 Mk2 i don't use the sub for more bass , I use it for lower bass and depth .
Hey Barry, you're so damn right. I got myself a WA76 and I love to turn the knobs and I love the way it sounds.
i just stumbled on to this one Barry, a bit late for sure. But you missed a basic point about using a sub. with compact monitors. Compacts are usually 2 way so that woofer is covering a whole lot of frequencies. You will get modulation of the cone and the midrange will be a bit compressed. They are basic facts. Adding a sub to extend the range will help free up the midrange a fair bit.
I am ready to buy a new set of monitors and i really dont know if i want a compact set plus sub or get what you have. Unfortunately, you didnt cover this all that well for my circumstance.
Many, many people do not know how to balance a sub with their speakers volume and set the crossover so that the transition is smooth from the sub to the speakers. If used correctly and an appropriate speaker and sub size for the room is used, your speakers should just sound like they are bigger and punch above their weight. You should not even be able to tell where the sub is located. This will also greatly increase your headroom and available volume in your monitors. Look it up and setup correctly.
I appreciate your comments, and yes, if a person does decide to use a sub, the way you mentioned this completely accurate, and that is the way I have mine set up in my space. All that said, I don’t think you quite understood my overall point.
@@BarryJohns Anyone who attempts to mix or even properly hear a kick drum or bass guitar with studio monitors that cannot reproduce the frequencies you are trying to hear or adjust will overshoot their levels.
@@jerbear1601 Jerry please understand I’m not trying to be difficult and I’m certainly not trying to argue with you. Please please please understand that. That being said the majority of records over the last 40 years, were mixed on the equivalent of NS10’s.
I’ve been mixing, I guess for 30 years, maybe, and the last thing in the world I need to hear is a subwoofer. Now keep in mind I have one, and I listen to music to it all the time and enjoy it. But I never ever mix with it.
You adjust your mixing style to the speakers you mix with. You’re making a mix that needs to translate across the spectrum of all types of listening sources. The overwhelming majority of people will never listen to that music where there’s going to be a ton of low end. Now I have a $3000 stereo in my car that can literally shake the walls, but the vast majority of people are not listening to music that way. They’re listening on AirPods.
@@BarryJohns Nobody sems to be looking for an argument and stating an opinion or just having a dialogue is normal. If opinions differ this is an opportunity to learn from one another by absorbing other viewpoints. Anyone would admit that you can mix or listen on any system that one wishes. They would also likely agree that any given speaker has an effective frequency range and that in a perfect world all frequencies would be available equally. I believe that is why we have more expensive and more accurate ones available to try to attain this.
I mix dialogue for stereo and 5.1. I need and use a sub speaker for verification. Voxengo BMS functions as a bass management system with safety limiters right after it. THERE it makes sense. For games, video viewing and music listening I don't use it. I have a consumer 5.1 system in the living room for movies(including absorbers). The sub is fun, but for production requires a good room. WIthout that, good speakers and building absorbers are a much better investment. Kali has a range of excellent speakers that are inexpensive and have great bass response.
I think the trick with adding a sub is that you have to get the phase correct. To me, adding a sub (Which I just ordered Genelec 7360A) will allow me to have a crossover point at 100hz to help me get my low end to sitt better. I've always wondered about the whole NS10 thing where so many engineers swear that's all they need. I mean, how do you mix a song when you can't hear certain low frequencies. To me it's like guessing... I've read that those engineers focus on the mids and magically the lows are sitting great but if you listen to recordingsfrom the 80's, most mixes in the Rock area sound kinda thin compared to Rock mixes for modern music today. My room is 20 x 35 and I tend to mix at very low volumes to begin with so I feel having a sub for balance is worth it, but I guess I'll find out soon enough.
I think the angle is that if mixing with monitors only, your ears ‘calibrate’ to that setup. By eliminating the sub you can better focus on the detail of the mid and hi, and you just get to know how the bass will sit because that’s the only way you mix. Like he mentions, flicking the sub on can throw his judgement out and while you could get one, the option to cross reference the bass elsewhere when you are checking the full mix anyway makes sense and saves a ton of cash in some cases. I think the point of contention here is if the ‘studio’ is sometimes for mastering but also jamming/live set/streaming etc. then you may want to feel the bass to get in the groove.
I have Yamaha HS5's with the Yamaha sub. It's an 8" sub so it's smallish and I have it set mostly for bass, not sub-bass. I find it more clean and clear than a 3 way cabinet for what I paid. I think how you place your sub settings make the difference. Thanks for the videos.
This is the only way subs make since in a small room to me
I just building a simple surround system in my living room, I've got my dad's Polk Monitor 60 or 70 (not sure), using them for my front speakers. I recently purchased a pair of Polk XT20 for surround and another pair of speakers for my back left and right. BTW my room is 22x14 and before dad bought the Polk Monitors he had a pair of AR speakers but with all the moving from the military they eventually gave out.
I will use one for produce music and have fun, but listening to you, I will turn it off for mixing. Love the low end 😅😅😅
Could you make a video about the differnece between downfiring and frontfiring subwoofers?
I recently bought A sub woofer. You are correct I do not like mixing with it. I do Treat my room I hang Heavy moving blankets Around me into an eight foot square. But I do like it on my stereo system for listening to some Music.
Hey, fair enough. Bigger monitors and no sub then reference elsewhere to jam out. My home theatre doubles as my stereo in the home so I can go there to see if I like the mix and tune my ears. Thanks for the savings.
100% agreed, it's about balance ....and subs usually mess things up dynamically. If it doesn't sound good on my 5" mono speaker check, it's simply not good enough. It's a steep learning curve. Sub frequencies cloud up everything, even with basstraps. Simple physics.
Imo -> proper! speaker setup is your best friend. If that image makes the walls dissappear, magic... I have seen people do such ridiculous setups. Like a 15" inch subwoofer cabinet , and like 2,5 " mids in their 'surround' setup. Seriously, they wonder why the bass is so heavy!....uhm.........
Barry I currently have no choice but to mix in a very small room. Approximately 8x8 feet. Its treated fairly. Im sure I need some deep absorption, and maybe I can get that installed this year. Im currently mixing on a pair of Kali LP6s. Man the top end and mids are great but ive got a HUGE bump at 130hz. Very narrow bump too. Probably 5-7db. This makes mixing bass guitars and snare drums a major PITA. I realize the LP6 might be slightly too big for my small room, and im open to getting rid of them for something else. I dont remember having this major issue in the low mids with my Yamaha HS5 monitors in the same room, those just had NO low end at all. Anyways, would you recommend smaller drivers and maybe an 8" sub? Keep the LP6s and treat the room better? Keep the LP6s and add a sub, or maybe just introduce some room EQ on the mains?
Just wanna say, regardless of the quality of your studio advice (which I find honest and helpful), I love your visual production. So many mixing and studio channels have really flat visuals, which, fair, it's about they way things sound, not the way they look, but a bit of eye candy never hurt.
Thanks Ross!
I'm getting a small 7 inch eve audio sub to pair with eve audio sc305 speakers. I'm not planning on mixing on it, but when I'm watching movies, playing games and having clients over to listen to mixes, they'll be impressed.
That’s a great plan for a Sub!
Which subwoofer would you recommend to pair with pmc result 6?
absolutely neccsary for producing techno though. Even HS8's need a sub because impact is everything, and while they go low they don't hit you. You can A/B with well engineered recordings to get levels right. But if you mix folks music or a genre like that of course a sub is not needed at all. Great video though. Opinions make the earth spin!
No sub in Hip-hop r&b and alot of pop EVEN country and rock TODAY???? I DON'T need them to mix BUT definitely on playback. I can mix either way. Enjoyed the commentary 👌👍
Probably true for many, but there can be circumstances. I´ve been thinking about getting a sub to move the low frequency source to another location without moving my speakers or listening position. This might reduce the SBIR I get from the front wall, or in fact counter room modes with it.
Personally not after the hyped bass. Just extention. ;)
I guess the best option then would be mix on monitors / headphones. Test out in car or on separate set up with a subwoofer to see how the low end translates. Or maybe just have a sub but turn off when mixing ? Idk this videos just made me even more confused lol
What sub you have?
I like your energy. Sub'd. Nice
My favorite discovery on CZcams yet!!
Ok, that doesn't put any pressure you me...Ha.. Man I'm just like you, on my journey. Thanks for watching, I really appreciate it!
Thanks Barry.
I liked the part where you got more down to business. Appreciate the video very much!
I don't know what type of music you mix, but I couldn't imagine mixing trap, hip hop, edm or r&b with out a sub now. I do listen and balance on ns-10 and Avantones without the sub that's wired to my mains. If I balance a hip hop mix and send it out without checking on the subs, I guarantee they'll send it back cause in those genres bass is the drive force of the music. To each his own but I love my Neumann 310's and 805 combo.
There are monitors capable of reproducing the effective low end such as Eve Audio sc3012. Using a sub woofer while mixing down can be counterproductive and trick the mix engineer to reduce the low frequencies.
@@ermessete I guess I should have said I still check the low end with and with out my sub. My sub is generally on with my mains when mixing though I go back and forth between them and the NS-10 and Avantones. Though I stick to my statement about I need to hear the sub bass in the genres I mix...as well the clients. They love to feel the bass.
Facts!! Seems to be a glorified guessing game.
Agreed!
You need a sub period!
Never turn mine on.
Well delivered content
Gotta disagree with this statement/video because subs like speaker size isn’t space dependent. Never has been and never will be. Also ns10’s are mixed with subs all the time and to great useable degree. Even a home space can benefit from subs inside of them which has been proven time and time again. Sorry my friend but this is an opinion piece, not a fact, especially when we’re talking room tuning.
Everything I do is opinion based. Not my place or my role to tell anyone what to do.
I disagree wholeheartedly that Subs are common place in professional mixing. Many if not most have a Sub in the room, but are not used when mixing. They are used when testing a mix or playback for talent.
@@BarryJohns maybe not in the genre you work in but for Hip-Hop/Pop they most definitely are used professionally. If you don’t know how to properly use one then please just say so, don’t discourage people who both do and should.
@@BarryJohns Subs are used constantly in modern production studios. Look at all the top end production spaces with Barefoot and other high-end brand 3-ways. Not simple mid-range and tweeter. Sure they aren't independent units but are very much subs nonetheless!
Subs are great
thank youu
I’m a new subscriber. Enjoy your videos
Thanks Michael!
Well said. Can't really get mixes that translate in that scenario
Just came across your Channel with this video. Love nerdy discussions like these. I mix 95% on Yamaha ns-10’s. I’ll check low end on my better dynamic 990’s. I’ve been debating on whether or not to get a sub for the yamahas but this video solidified my reason to NOT go through with the sub. Thanks for the video
I have a pair of PreSonus A.R. five and they are sitting on foam pads there was no walls behind them the room is a long room maybe 100 feet not treated because it’s my house and living room my piano is behind the walls or would the ceiling has acoustic tile or something on it, and A pair of Tannoy gold running through a tube amp, with no tone controls a 7 foot for Grotrian Stein vague 106 years old to record with. Too old to Lottie microphones a couple of CAD Mike’s one manly gold reference wish I had a second one, :-) an a Nord stage two I viscount legend organ expander for my Hammond sounds no room for a Leslie, so it all Hass to go through the interface which is plugged in directly to the speakers with balanced inputs and a PreSonus interface ProTools 19.6 any suggestions would be quite helpful thank you so much I love your posts.
Since you never turn it on, you could donate it to me i would love to use it all day everyday😄
I’ll think about it :)
@@BarryJohns 🤞🏽🤞🏽
my subwoofer is a Dual 18inch 6400watt 138db R.I.P My neighbours
👍🏽
I dislike sub-woofers. Ever since those stupid cars with the below 60 hz extended. Bla!. But I mix folk and county. I can see if one worked in EDM or rap or hip hop it would be very important.
I listen with it but never mix with it. You're fooling yourself if you do.
you are a complicated man, there is no doubt about it lol