Puder lost fan favorite after he displayed poor mic' skills. So they tried to make him a heal by getting on the mic' annoying the crowd and then they had benoit and eddie come out and eliminate him. I think they chose benoit and eddie to have puder take that heat you are talking about. Just my opinion though I could be wrong on that.
Just to clarify: you don't normally put a rookie you are trying to push into being humiliated by 2 strong veterans unless a fued is to follow. As we.all know puder never had that fued or any.other major apperances.after the rumble.
Puder is a stand up dude! He’s a super nice guy and very down to earth! I’ve met him a few times in the past few years. He does a lot for youth anti bullying.
Bruce is really entertaining but sometimes he can be too much a company guy. They tried to rough this guy up and he surprised everyone and they have to say well Kurt was tired from stretching the challenger.
Angle was a champion and true competitor in every sense of the word. But he ran himself way too hard and was a shell of his former self by the time this happened with Puder.
That's where I think Angles ego got the best of him. He knew he was in bad shape. And this young kid coming in was a real fighter. Angle must of thought. No big deal.
Hes also just not good enough. Hes not a complete grappler. Ever version of Kurt would get wrapped up because the only technique he knows is very restricted
@@Matt-cr4vv that wasnt a keylock. You could call it a reverse key lock but it actually has a wrestling name, because it's a wrestling hold, in the kind of wrestling they were doing. It's a double wrist lock...and a pro wrestling move. They werent having an amatuer match, it was a shoot
Hazing? Making them run and eat pasta is hazing? Mr. Fuji once ribbed a guy by cooking his dog and feeding it to him and only telling him after the fact. No but eating fettuccine is hazing. Bro you are the biggest pussy
I didn't know hazing meant being on live television on the most watched wrestling show of all time to promote yourself for FREE, and on top of that having the opportunity to win 1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! As well as a guaranteed contract with the biggest wrestling company on the planet
@@tomsawyer7721 Yeah no, killing someone's dog then cooking it to serve to the owner of said dog is not hazing, that's psychopathic behavior, nothing "tough" or "badass" about that, you have a warped sense of reality if you think otherwise.
@@tomsawyer7721 Also, that story is unconfirmed and is basically a wrestling urban legend, from what I heard, Tanaka was a powerhouse that would have fucking murdered Fuji if he pulled something like that.
pissed off about how dumb that sound eating pasta and drinking milk to try to make the guys puke that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life, I was stretched and beaten up by Mad Dog Buzz Sawyer for months before I ever wrestled so I understand the rough training but the pasta Etc in the back and doing something like that while having a multi-billion-dollar TV show I just can't believe how stupid that is
@@OzzyOscy Yeah it's so stupid. There were plenty guys on the roster like Rikishi, Viscera, etc. who don't look like they'd be able to do 10 push ups nevermind all the sprints and squats. The truth is Tough Enough came about at a time when the WWE was fighting for legitimacy. The UFC was on the rise so to try and prove how tough pro wrestlers are the WWE thought it would be a good idea to get a much of guys and put them through months worth of hazing. They never really had any intention on finding "the next superstar" through Tough Enough.
This is why I’m thankful for the enhancement talent today! You don’t allow a shoot and think the kid is just going to lie down! He wants the fans to know that he’s tough but credit to Kurt for taking Puder on like a champ!
Kurt wasn't in the best of shape at this point. Olympic Medal winner or not, he had no business shooting on people in 2004. I watched this live and remember how awkward it was. Almost as dumb as the Brawl For All. Almost.
I had no idea they made them do all that crap; sprints, squat thrusts, gorge and pasta and milk, then run again and Puder still handled Angle like that... damn. It was a wise move on Kurt's part not to take a shoot fight that Dana White tried to set up with him and Puder. Puder would have killed him in anything but a wrestling match.
It was supposed to be an amateur wrestling match, Kurt wasn't worrying about submission defense. As an amateur wrestler, there are no submissions it's all about gaining position so you're not thinking the dudes gonna snap your arm or neck off. In an MMA match or grappling match Angle would have used submission defense to wrestle the guy. I don't care how tough that dude is, Angles a fucking Olympic wrestler.
@@josephmatthews7698 Olympic wrestling and submission wrestling are two very different things, and even Olympics level grapplers get beaten by talented submission fighters; Hidehiko Yoshida was an Olympic gold-medalist judoka, but he still got rag-dolled and submitted by Josh Barnett.
I am hardly a Daniel Puder fan, but in this incident I really cannot fault him. He grabbed his shot, he didn't cheat in any way. The Royal Rumble killed off the illusion that there were no hard feelings. He was punished for upsetting plans. 'I am in the main event' LOL
Wasn’t supposed to be an mma match. Puder screwed himself. Imagine had he broken Kurt’s arm. Puder would have a whole lot more hurt coming his way than what he got.
@@samclark379you could tell Puder did NOT want to take any more chops the way he kept falling down after every one. Then they held him up and just went to town 🤣
Kurt was an all American wrestler and that kid showed what having some MMA experience can do. He made cake work out him and Kurts lucky he didn't get his arm snapped in half.
Instead of burpees, fettucine and milk, and wind sprints like a bunch of psychopaths, they should have just told the candidates: you're going to go out there, you're going to get bumped and stretched, you're going to pay dues and like it, and you're going to put Kurt Angle over. And if you don't, And if you try to stunt, we're going to send Farooq and Bradshaw down there to beat your ass for 10-minutes, and then you'll be on a bus home by the end of the night. They wanted them to be wrestlers right? Then treat them like wrestlers. What you don't do is then torment guys who are there by their own volition, put them in a position to bury your top guy, and then blame THEM when they bury your top guy.
I think this idea was stupid but I think the logic was to teach them respect and it backfired. They wanted them to get worked up by Kurt and learn that they don't have it all figured out. They just didn't account for the fact a shooter would place him in a kimura
@@Matt-cr4vv "THey just didn't acount for a shooter deploying a kimura" Yes, and that's the problem. That's my whole argument. A Booker would have. There is no way in FUCK a BOOKER would put his promotion on the line like that by risking his TOP GUY getting punked in front of a live crowd on t.v. A booker tells the talent what's going to happen in that ring, and that's supposedly the business they're in. So they should have acted like it by treating these guys like the wrestlers they wanted them to be. If you want to haze them have them carry guys' bags or something. Run drinks around back stage. What you don't fucking do is piss off guys and then put them in a position to bury YOUR GUY on YOUR TV.
They got butthurt because one of the top guys challenged a rookie to a real fight, and he lost. Accept it and deal with it, and maybe develop an angle between Kurt and Puder based around this and draw in some viewers. Or, have three guys slap him around in the Royal Rumble as punishment for him daring to win and never see him again afterwards.
He challenged him to an amateur wrestling match and then got slapped with a jujitsu move. He didn't lose, considering that would never happen in an amateur wrestling match. Would Kurt have lost in an MMA match or jujitsu feud? Absolutely. He wasn't trained in that, same as why they had trainees wrestling an Olympic gold medalist. Puder wasn't ready to be wrestling on the main roster. He was brand new to pro wrestling when he won the show. It was fairly normal for the tough enough winner to do some stuff on the main roster while the name was fresh and then be sent to developmental. Puder won the million dollar contest, which in reality was a four year contract with a $250K downside that was terminable after a year. Once the first year was up WWE cut his pay and sent him to developmental and he quit shortly after. It's not like he got cut because of this. It just isn't worth paying a guy $250K to be in OVW. That show produced some good talents but overall I'm just not sure it's set up to work well. How can you capitalize on the tv exposure when you have to send the winner to developmental to learn the craft?
@@Matt-cr4vv There were no rules forbidding submissions. The only rule was that they weren't allowed to strike (hence why Kurt beat the guy before Daniel with a guillotine choke breaking 2 of his ribs in the process). Thing is it was a shoot, Kurt got shot, looked like a bitch and didn't like it
@@Matt-cr4vv this is the comment i was looking for. idiots who thought it was a real mma ufc grade fight on WWE just because it was unscheduled are psychos. This brain child who is on a show learning how to play a character and fake fight for some reason magically thinks its time to really throw down and break a performers arm. It would have been more reasonable if he had just punched angle as hard as he could then to go for a keylock.
I totally understand blowing the boys up and even beating them up a bit. But making them eat fettuccine and drink milk is over the line and stupid. That’s the difference between making guys sick from exhaustion and sick from being force fed. Again...blow em up, stretch em out, beat em up...but making them eat seems like borderline abuse. I know that sounds ironic, but if you think about it...excessive and unnecessary.
Was there ever any point in Tough Enough contest? It always looked weirdly out of place and very few winners actually achieved recognition in WWE. It was like they were trying to shoot, script, preserve and expose business - all at the same time.
yeah I was annoyed when Bruce was saying himself along with everyone else backstage got mad at Puder for not wanting to eat bullshit pasta lmao it's so stupid
So, the most athletic guy in history (Bruce Prichard) decided to be a pretend green beret for a day and the drunk driving dynamo (Kurt Angle) acted like the meathead that he is. Ah, wrestling
@@smokebreakmma6524 To be fair, Kurt was an olympic gold medalist so there's no way Shamrock would have beat him in a real amateur wrestling match...now if it was an MMA match, that might have been different.
@@smokebreakmma6524 It's obvious Kurt doesn't have any MMA experience, to be honest those are two completely different sports, but if you think Ken could grapple with Kurt straight up, I think you're out of your mind.
brian Rockwood do you know how to read? I said very clearly and plainly a fist fight. A mma fight. Not a wwe match not a steel cage match not a Olympic wrestling match, a fight
@@Kobe24brady12 Even though this stuff is staged the whole situation was out of line. Look at what they had those guys doing and the to put them in the ring Come on dude. I'm not a wrestler or MMA guy but wrong is wrong. Think About It.
@@Kobe24brady12 it was a shoot. Vince told Angel to go out and rough them up, Angel broke the first guy's ribs, and then when Puder got the best of him, The ref counted to 3 to end it. The ref did an interview and said that Angel was really fighting them and Al Snow said that he tried to talk Vince out of it, because it was too risky to have a shoot, but Vince wouldn't listen.
it wasn't a 'misunderstanding' about rules. Kurt was so high off oxy and cocaine that he thought he could take on the world, he picked on a legitimate fighter and paid the price.
Both his shoulders weren't down, the referee thought on his feet to quickly get Angle out of the situation. Puder was given a shoot fight to get himself noticed, he took exactly what WWE offered him.
Yes, apart from his right shoulder being up and then his left, clearly down. I sincerely hope Jimmy Korderas got a MASSIVE bonus for that week, because he saved WWE and one of their prized assets from colossal embarrassment.
So they tried to haze Puder, he said "No", and since he was a former MMA fighter they couldn't do anything about it? Now we know why they didn't like him.
I met Puder in a Starbucks In Kentucky across river from Cincinnati! He was cool as shit took a picture on his phone sent it to mine and I’ve kept in contact here and there. Cool ass guy!
They made them run sprints, then made them eat all this pasta complete with the creamy sauce and only gave them milk or butter milk to wash it down with, then had them doing sprints again. They were pushing hard and trying to make them puke, trying to see who would break and who toughed it out. Puder was not sprinting as instructed and didn't eat the pasta which is essentially cheating the whole thing.
It was fettuccini alfredo, milk and sprints. The combination of all that would have made the men extremely vulnerable (fatigued and nauseas) against Angle in a wrestling match.
Holden308 They were essentially trying to make sure nobody would embarrass Angle. Puder knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he was going to put Angle in that hold to get himself over.
Which one of the podcasts was the first one that Conrad started? The one that I first found, a few years ago, that introduced me to his podcasts and the idea of talking to and about all of these guys from wrestling’s past was the one Conrad did with Jim Ross (JR). I had actually forgotten about his JR podcast until one of the clips Popped up in my recommendation other day. I thought it was very good but I don’t think it ever got the traction like this one with Bruce Prichard or the one he has with Eric Bischoff. Regardless, I find the content of The Grilling JR podcast to be as good as any of their other stuff. Cool to get a lot of these stories, sometimes being the same story but from 3 different points of view on the 3 different shows.
What was Puder supposed to do? If Angle wanted a worked match with these guys, then do a worked match. But, he challenged these gentlemen to a shoot match, shit happens. Nobody should be pissed at Puder. At all.
but there were none, were there? Puder had Angle SHOOK. Vince is lucky that Puder wanted to play ball, because if he'd have pimp slapped Angle right then it would have buried that whole organization. A fucking kid with 1 MMA fight under his belt embarrasses your top 'shooter' in 30-seconds, Angle couldn't have done shit to that kid even if he wanted to.
@@maxdecphoenix I have to agree. The kid wasn't even an expert in any style of ground game and its pretty clear from the one video alone. I don't think it would've killed the organization though. People knew he was a legit MMA competitor so him winning the match would've just put extra hype on him. He could've legit been the next big thing but Kurt got salty. He lowkey probably actually fucked up his rotator cuff a lil bit though. If someone doesn't tap, you're specifically told to keep applying pressure cause you might not have it locked it properly.
There's a lot of hindsight going on here. No one said anything about Puder. Angle went in and went a bit too far. Vince was convinced that 'Wrestling God' Kurt Angle could beat anyone. I doubt Puder even knew what he was going to do before he did it. It really didn't have as much thought as what they try to make out.
Got to be a good wrestler to have control in MMA fights. Look at Henry Cejudo. 2008 Olympic gold medalist in wrestling who's the current UFC bantamweight champion.
@Itheworst Very fair...MMA and Olympic wrestling is a completely different sport. Having said that, Kurt beat Lesnar in a strictly Olympic-style wrestling match and Brock was an NCAA champ, as well had at least 70-80lbs on Kurt. If you hear Kurt talk about it, NCAA, no matter how good you are, is ENTIRELY different than Olympic level. Obviously Puder was trained in MMA, and likely Jiu-Jitsu, which again, is a completely different sport than Olympic level wrestling.
Not sure why humiliating people helps prepare them for a career in professional wrestling, where the art is to pretend to hurt people. Personally in Putter’s position I would have done the same thing. The only thing Putter do wrong, is he didn’t batter Hardcore Holly in the Rumble.
Uh Brucie kurt didnt decide to pin him. Ref Jimmy Korderas dropped and did a fast count even puders shoulders were not flat on mat. Did it to if not prevent puder injuring kurt at least lessen the damage because angle was not going anywhere until puder let him go and his ego and image would not let him tap even if/when pudrr broke his arm..
Before i watch any of this I am willing to bet my life savings that at some point Bruce is going to claim credit for some or all of the story and lead up to what happened.
I love how they're talking about blowing these guys up and Puder is not having any of it. I guess I fail to understand why wouldn't they let these guys be at 100% before they get "stretched".
I mean, Kurt was old as fuck in fighter years and Puder was probably in the middle of his prime. Kurts not a Randy Coutour wrestler and he's never trained his stand up a day in his life from my knowledge. He would've got wrecked.
@@noconaroubideaux9423 not even in 2004 with all the beating angle took in wrestling maybe but wrecked? Nah if kurt trained I'm sure he would of been fine
I think it sucked the way they f***ed over Puder after this. The guy was in great shape and was a real fighter, kind of like a smaller Brock Lesner. But because he embarrassed Kurt, who was out to legit hurt someone they treated him like shit
They did it to save face after he in feont of dverybody almost broke kurts arm. That really made them look bad. Daniel did what he was told. They should've let him improv.
From what I understand, he wasn't really tryna be in the WWE anymore by the time this took place and he was just after that prize money. How true that is, I don't fucking know lol
Conrad describing a squat thrust as if it's a brand new dance. Jeez man, I know you don't do any exercise, but are you telling me you haven't even heard of it?
Also there is a difference between wrestling and jujitsu. Wrestling teaches the student to take the opponent down and control while jujitsu teaches the strongest attacks while being underneath an opponent. Pretty simple how he put kurt angle in a kimura lock. The crazy part is that he held it on kurt because the move takes strength imo
Tbh, they minimize what happened to an extreme degree. They got lucky that Puder got the kimura and wasn't a real high level grappler like that. Kurt's story is, beside the numb arm shit, was that he could've picked Puder up and slammed him on his neck but he gently laid him down on the mat and that these were supposed to be completely different rules. But the funny thing is the kimura was locked in prior to Kurt attempting to slam him so he couldn't even rotate his right shoulder to be able to pick him up which is why he got him like 2 inches off the ground and was like 'oh, fuck this' lol then, Kurt didn't even take him down, Puder pulled for half guard cause thats the position you want when you're on bottom and working a kimura. Puder had a full kimura in before they went to the ground and Kurt has enough experience to know that he don't want to be on the ground in away because chances are the kimura is gonna get deeper, which it did. Plus, you can't hide the fact that the refs were doing 3 counts for both matches. If the refs don't know you're supposed to be going by amateur rule then thats not what the fuck you doing lol they counted to 3 for his first opponent and when the match was over, nobody told the refs, 'hey, we're supposed to be doing a 1 count, not a 3 count.' claiming amateur rules when that obviously ain't what is going on is classes from an Olympic gold medalist.
@@noconaroubideaux9423 the entire thing was one big fuck up. Shouldn't have been doing it all, shouldn't have called out multiple guys, should've been counting for amateur rules, and shouldn't have been placed in a jujitsu hold in an amateur wrestling match. The entire thing was bad.
Wow. Sprint, eat all this pasta, drink all this milk. Sprint some more, do a workout, THEN wrestle. That’s FUCKING BULLSHIT. Clearly trying to set them up for embarrassment. But it was WWE who was embarrassed.
@@nathanjones1209 yea and wheres puder now no where to be found and is a nobody while kurt has a podcast and still gets recognize around the world. You dope learn your facts
Well yeah they were ending it. There are no submissions in amateur wrestling, Angle wasn't thinking submission defense. He was thinking of getting the position. Kudos to the kid but this was an amateur wrestling match, that joint lock would have gotten him disqualified instantly. If it was an MMA or grappling roll Angle would have been considering submission defense and was twice as big as the kid. Seriously he's an OLYMPIC WRESTLER kid had no chance.
How did he whip Kurt's ass? Kurt legitimately won a shoot wrestling match. Even if it was because Puder didn't know the rules of a shoot wrestling match, Puder still lost a shoot wrestling match.
They tried to embarrass those young kids wanting to be wrestlers. By all means they need to be tested, but putting them in their with an Olympic gold wrestler for a shoot wrestling match? Over the line. I’m glad that Puder did that to Angle. I’m glad that he didn’t break his arm, but could’ve if he wanted to and showed a lot of those fake tough guys that you can’t fuck with everyone.
Daniel Puder and Bart Gunn got screwed over for being legitimate tough guys. Prichard is falling over himself to justify why Angle lost. This sounds like Ross and Cornette crying over the Brawl For All.
They were having a wrestling bout and one guy shot with a kimura. That isn't wrestling lol. Of course Kurt wasn't prepared for it because that isn't what you do in wrestling.
A clear thing from all that tough enough stuff was that only 2 people showed respect for the industry/superstars andwould sell moves done to them. And they became miz and ryback. If puter went in and showed himself to be able to keep angle on his toes but then take the loss he would of got the respect he wanted.
As soon as he said "what are you doing" about the refs counting 3 ....i was like "yeah but ...your in a pro wrestling ring, i what do you want them to do, we as an audience aint gonna fucking know" And then he adressed it lol
I don’t understand the ‘hazing’ thing. Like why when you’re new to the business does it mean you get bullied for years to ‘prove you can handle the business’? Puder was legit, I’ve trained with him myself, Bruce is right, it should never have happened. But if I ask you to have a wrestle and you get me in a hold, that doesn’t make you wrong does it? You got me, great! It’s just confusing to me.
Shortly after Daniel was in the royal rumble and Benoit and Bob Holly smacked that kid silly . Watch that on CZcams. They tore him apart with real chops
Angle used a neck crank on the first guy. That's an illegal move in amateur wrestling, which Angle, being a gold medalist in wrestling, would know. He was cheating and high as fuck off of pain killers.
Sorry Bruce, you are wrong. Watch the video again, Daniel's right shoulder is not down. It is up for 1 and 2 but goes down at 3. He looks back at the ref counting and his shoulders go down at 3. Probably because of the confusion of the count: Is it a 1 count or a 2 count or a 3 count (all three are valid depending on what kind of wrestling)? and why is Bruce not addressing the real reason why this happened: Puder was pissed because he felt that Angle was being a bully and injured his friend. We all know accidents happen. But Kurt was working stiff and taking liberties to boost the storyline and himself. That's the story.
I don't think people get that its almost physically impossible to have a kimura in from half guard and have both shoulders on the ground. He was giving up the submission on the 3rd count.
If there was no heat on Puder what the hell happened at the Royal Rumble?
Triple H wasn't involved in that so Bruce didn't know about it.
Guess there’s a difference between head with management and heat with the locker room
Puder lost fan favorite after he displayed poor mic' skills. So they tried to make him a heal by getting on the mic' annoying the crowd and then they had benoit and eddie come out and eliminate him.
I think they chose benoit and eddie to have puder take that heat you are talking about. Just my opinion though I could be wrong on that.
Just to clarify: you don't normally put a rookie you are trying to push into being humiliated by 2 strong veterans unless a fued is to follow. As we.all know puder never had that fued or any.other major apperances.after the rumble.
I think the story was that Puder had a cocky and bad attitude backstage. So they had to humble him.
Angle put himself in that position no one else
So?
Brisco never said to do a fast count. Jimmy took the initiative to do a 3 count to protect Angle.
You 100%?
@@Bigunk-hc2ri Jimmy states this on his Hannibal TV interview from 2 yrs ago
@@blueringoffire you 100% he ain’t blowing smoke that he wasn’t instructed beforehand to give a one count and he ignored it?
Puder is a stand up dude! He’s a super nice guy and very down to earth! I’ve met him a few times in the past few years. He does a lot for youth anti bullying.
Daniel?
Do you think it’s possible that he was “humbled” into being the guy you met?
He’s a little princess
@EBC-ENThe was the bully for enduring this BS hazing nonsense?
Bruce is really entertaining but sometimes he can be too much a company guy. They tried to rough this guy up and he surprised everyone and they have to say well Kurt was tired from stretching the challenger.
Angle was a champion and true competitor in every sense of the word. But he ran himself way too hard and was a shell of his former self by the time this happened with Puder.
That's where I think Angles ego got the best of him. He knew he was in bad shape. And this young kid coming in was a real fighter. Angle must of thought. No big deal.
Angle was a legit junkie by this point in his career, pill head/alcoholic.
@@MrJjburgess11 To be fair he's thinking they're gonna wrestle, he isn't thinking he's gonna get put in a key lock
Hes also just not good enough. Hes not a complete grappler. Ever version of Kurt would get wrapped up because the only technique he knows is very restricted
@@Matt-cr4vv that wasnt a keylock. You could call it a reverse key lock but it actually has a wrestling name, because it's a wrestling hold, in the kind of wrestling they were doing.
It's a double wrist lock...and a pro wrestling move. They werent having an amatuer match, it was a shoot
training? kinda sounds like hazing to me.
Hazing? Making them run and eat pasta is hazing? Mr. Fuji once ribbed a guy by cooking his dog and feeding it to him and only telling him after the fact.
No but eating fettuccine is hazing. Bro you are the biggest pussy
I didn't know hazing meant being on live television on the most watched wrestling show of all time to promote yourself for FREE, and on top of that having the opportunity to win 1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! As well as a guaranteed contract with the biggest wrestling company on the planet
Fuck. Someone haze me then
@@tomsawyer7721 Yeah no, killing someone's dog then cooking it to serve to the owner of said dog is not hazing, that's psychopathic behavior, nothing "tough" or "badass" about that, you have a warped sense of reality if you think otherwise.
@@tomsawyer7721 Also, that story is unconfirmed and is basically a wrestling urban legend, from what I heard, Tanaka was a powerhouse that would have fucking murdered Fuji if he pulled something like that.
pissed off about how dumb that sound eating pasta and drinking milk to try to make the guys puke that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life, I was stretched and beaten up by Mad Dog Buzz Sawyer for months before I ever wrestled so I understand the rough training but the pasta Etc in the back and doing something like that while having a multi-billion-dollar TV show I just can't believe how stupid that is
Agreed
Vince's psychotic idea of what it takes to "prove you're a man", this mentally ill form of hazing..
Love when people say "your lying" like they have a fuckn clue! Such jealous haters out there Hahahaha!!!!!!
@@OzzyOscy Yeah it's so stupid. There were plenty guys on the roster like Rikishi, Viscera, etc. who don't look like they'd be able to do 10 push ups nevermind all the sprints and squats. The truth is Tough Enough came about at a time when the WWE was fighting for legitimacy. The UFC was on the rise so to try and prove how tough pro wrestlers are the WWE thought it would be a good idea to get a much of guys and put them through months worth of hazing. They never really had any intention on finding "the next superstar" through Tough Enough.
You survived Buzz Sawyer's training? Hat's off...
The thing I remember the most from this tough enough. Was Big Show shoving Puder across the locker room.
what i hate about this story, is that everybody has different details on the story....
lol that seems to be the way with every wrestling story.
Well goddamn, pal... The refs are a lot smarter than anybody ever gives them credit for...
ogarstyle how do you mean?
they were told what to do through an ear piece
This is why I’m thankful for the enhancement talent today! You don’t allow a shoot and think the kid is just going to lie down! He wants the fans to know that he’s tough but credit to Kurt for taking Puder on like a champ!
I love Bruce’s, Cornett sounding “Motherrrr Fuckerrr”!
Kurt wasn't in the best of shape at this point. Olympic Medal winner or not, he had no business shooting on people in 2004. I watched this live and remember how awkward it was. Almost as dumb as the Brawl For All. Almost.
John Doe Come up with something better 🤪
I agree. Furthermore, UFC is no joke. Really, Vince fucked up by allowing it to happen.
kurt was such a loser clown, a rat like jeff jarrett managed to snake his wife away.
Kurt was a mean DRUNK around late 2004 and took around 25 Vicodin pills a day
do u remember what kurt said to puder after the match
Rewatch the video, and when Puder cranks Angles arm, you can hear Angle yell, "COUNT HIM! COUNT HIM!"
Yup Puder was about to snap Angle's arm!
@@blaketindle4703 ok?
@@blaketindle4703 yeah sure and in fairness to Kurt Angle this was after his injury when Kurt's arms were at its weakest.
The refs had to stop it because Pudue was about to break Angles arm and Angle had to make it look like he was in control. What a jerk.
Angle never pinned him, Bruce is wrong once again.
I had no idea they made them do all that crap; sprints, squat thrusts, gorge and pasta and milk, then run again and Puder still handled Angle like that... damn. It was a wise move on Kurt's part not to take a shoot fight that Dana White tried to set up with him and Puder. Puder would have killed him in anything but a wrestling match.
They showed a clip of it as they came back from commercial.
It was supposed to be an amateur wrestling match, Kurt wasn't worrying about submission defense. As an amateur wrestler, there are no submissions it's all about gaining position so you're not thinking the dudes gonna snap your arm or neck off.
In an MMA match or grappling match Angle would have used submission defense to wrestle the guy. I don't care how tough that dude is, Angles a fucking Olympic wrestler.
Yeahhhhhhh, you’ve gotta be an idiot if you’re thinking Daniel Puder is gonna beat an olympic Gold medalist.
@@josephmatthews7698 Olympic wrestling and submission wrestling are two very different things, and even Olympics level grapplers get beaten by talented submission fighters; Hidehiko Yoshida was an Olympic gold-medalist judoka, but he still got rag-dolled and submitted by Josh Barnett.
Eh, I really don't think Kurt expected a submission like that in the environment they were in. Who knows, though?
I am hardly a Daniel Puder fan, but in this incident I really cannot fault him. He grabbed his shot, he didn't cheat in any way.
The Royal Rumble killed off the illusion that there were no hard feelings. He was punished for upsetting plans.
'I am in the main event' LOL
Agreed. Holly, Benoit, and Guerrero basically had a competition to see who could chop him the hardest.
Benoit won that one lol
It was a amateur wrestling match not an mma fight
Wasn’t supposed to be an mma match. Puder screwed himself. Imagine had he broken Kurt’s arm. Puder would have a whole lot more hurt coming his way than what he got.
@@samclark379you could tell Puder did NOT want to take any more chops the way he kept falling down after every one. Then they held him up and just went to town 🤣
Kurt was an all American wrestler and that kid showed what having some MMA experience can do. He made cake work out him and Kurts lucky he didn't get his arm snapped in half.
Instead of burpees, fettucine and milk, and wind sprints like a bunch of psychopaths, they should have just told the candidates: you're going to go out there, you're going to get bumped and stretched, you're going to pay dues and like it, and you're going to put Kurt Angle over. And if you don't, And if you try to stunt, we're going to send Farooq and Bradshaw down there to beat your ass for 10-minutes, and then you'll be on a bus home by the end of the night.
They wanted them to be wrestlers right? Then treat them like wrestlers. What you don't do is then torment guys who are there by their own volition, put them in a position to bury your top guy, and then blame THEM when they bury your top guy.
Only a trained shooter like Puder would mop the floor with those guys
@@Arayig1982 He'd mop them in an MMA fight but not in an amateur wrestling match.
I think this idea was stupid but I think the logic was to teach them respect and it backfired. They wanted them to get worked up by Kurt and learn that they don't have it all figured out. They just didn't account for the fact a shooter would place him in a kimura
@@Matt-cr4vv you mean Greco-Roman? The best so called mma fighters , have a base in Greco-Roman wrestling.
@@Matt-cr4vv "THey just didn't acount for a shooter deploying a kimura" Yes, and that's the problem. That's my whole argument. A Booker would have. There is no way in FUCK a BOOKER would put his promotion on the line like that by risking his TOP GUY getting punked in front of a live crowd on t.v. A booker tells the talent what's going to happen in that ring, and that's supposedly the business they're in. So they should have acted like it by treating these guys like the wrestlers they wanted them to be. If you want to haze them have them carry guys' bags or something. Run drinks around back stage. What you don't fucking do is piss off guys and then put them in a position to bury YOUR GUY on YOUR TV.
They got butthurt because one of the top guys challenged a rookie to a real fight, and he lost. Accept it and deal with it, and maybe develop an angle between Kurt and Puder based around this and draw in some viewers. Or, have three guys slap him around in the Royal Rumble as punishment for him daring to win and never see him again afterwards.
He challenged him to an amateur wrestling match and then got slapped with a jujitsu move. He didn't lose, considering that would never happen in an amateur wrestling match.
Would Kurt have lost in an MMA match or jujitsu feud? Absolutely. He wasn't trained in that, same as why they had trainees wrestling an Olympic gold medalist.
Puder wasn't ready to be wrestling on the main roster. He was brand new to pro wrestling when he won the show. It was fairly normal for the tough enough winner to do some stuff on the main roster while the name was fresh and then be sent to developmental. Puder won the million dollar contest, which in reality was a four year contract with a $250K downside that was terminable after a year. Once the first year was up WWE cut his pay and sent him to developmental and he quit shortly after. It's not like he got cut because of this. It just isn't worth paying a guy $250K to be in OVW.
That show produced some good talents but overall I'm just not sure it's set up to work well. How can you capitalize on the tv exposure when you have to send the winner to developmental to learn the craft?
@@Matt-cr4vv There were no rules forbidding submissions. The only rule was that they weren't allowed to strike (hence why Kurt beat the guy before Daniel with a guillotine choke breaking 2 of his ribs in the process). Thing is it was a shoot, Kurt got shot, looked like a bitch and didn't like it
@@Matt-cr4vv this is the comment i was looking for. idiots who thought it was a real mma ufc grade fight on WWE just because it was unscheduled are psychos.
This brain child who is on a show learning how to play a character and fake fight for some reason magically thinks its time to really throw down and break a performers arm. It would have been more reasonable if he had just punched angle as hard as he could then to go for a keylock.
I totally understand blowing the boys up and even beating them up a bit. But making them eat fettuccine and drink milk is over the line and stupid. That’s the difference between making guys sick from exhaustion and sick from being force fed. Again...blow em up, stretch em out, beat em up...but making them eat seems like borderline abuse. I know that sounds ironic, but if you think about it...excessive and unnecessary.
Agreed. That was embarrassing to listen to. No justification for it. Makes wrestling sound like a fraternity.
Bottom line is kurt angle would of got his ass kicked
I agree that was dumb and didnt make sense
I never could understand the point of it.
@@Rschr101 and they make them do the lemon juice cactus slide.
Was there ever any point in Tough Enough contest? It always looked weirdly out of place and very few winners actually achieved recognition in WWE. It was like they were trying to shoot, script, preserve and expose business - all at the same time.
Where's High school dxd season 5?
The point was to make money on a reality TV show with no regard to how much it would damage the entire wrestling industry
tbf while he didn't win, the Miz is now a rather succesful Wrestler and even former WWE Champion
They should've just picked nunzio
I mean they do
Kurt had no issues with Puder apparently. He was pretty cool with Puder backstage, even after Kurt got put in the keylock.
The older I get, the more I realize that Puder was smarter than the rest of the guys and was just not going to put up with WWE's silly bullshit.
And he is rewarded well. Financially, Puder is richer than most pro wrestlers thanks to his business ventures.
yeah I was annoyed when Bruce was saying himself along with everyone else backstage got mad at Puder for not wanting to eat bullshit pasta lmao it's so stupid
They should be happy the ref saved there ass by counting.. he said in a interview that nobody told him to count he just did it to save curts ass
Kurt was totally feeling himself after bullying the first guy then Puder knocked him down a notch real quick.
Someone needed to knock Angle down a few pegs and Puder definitely did!
not really
@@jakelang806 yes really
@@jakelang806yes really
So, the most athletic guy in history (Bruce Prichard) decided to be a pretend green beret for a day and the drunk driving dynamo (Kurt Angle) acted like the meathead that he is. Ah, wrestling
I heard Kurt was high on Vicodin and drank like 5 shots of whiskey when he almost got owned by Daniel Puder
@@joeysbestfriend2614 accordingly to Angle he was taking far more than 5 more like 50 if you can believe that.
(The next smallest size to a gallon) Come on Bruce I'm pretty sure that's a 1/2 gallon of milk... lol
3/4 gallon. Lol
@@harpliver Must be a regional thing. We dont have 3/4 gallon milk jugs here.
7/8ths of a gallon
He's talking about pints.
Shamrock-Angle would have been nice.
Shamrock was a actual fighter though. Kurt was amazing but ken would beat him in a fist fight in there prime
@@smokebreakmma6524 To be fair, Kurt was an olympic gold medalist so there's no way Shamrock would have beat him in a real amateur wrestling match...now if it was an MMA match, that might have been different.
brian Rockwood Kurt was a phenomenal wrestler but I’m talking Mma here. Shamrock has real fighting experience
@@smokebreakmma6524 It's obvious Kurt doesn't have any MMA experience, to be honest those are two completely different sports, but if you think Ken could grapple with Kurt straight up, I think you're out of your mind.
brian Rockwood do you know how to read? I said very clearly and plainly a fist fight. A mma fight. Not a wwe match not a steel cage match not a Olympic wrestling match, a fight
Come on Bruce,Kurt was in real trouble with that kid.......Bottom Line.
It was a WRESTLING match not a MMA Fight. Daniel had no right putting him in a Key Lock.
@@Kobe24brady12 Even though this stuff is staged the whole situation was out of line. Look at what they had those guys doing and the to put them in the ring Come on dude. I'm not a wrestler or MMA guy but wrong is wrong. Think About It.
@@Kobe24brady12 it was a shoot. Vince told Angel to go out and rough them up, Angel broke the first guy's ribs, and then when Puder got the best of him, The ref counted to 3 to end it. The ref did an interview and said that Angel was really fighting them and Al Snow said that he tried to talk Vince out of it, because it was too risky to have a shoot, but Vince wouldn't listen.
@@Kobe24brady12 Angel is the only person that swears it was supposed to be a "wrestling match".
Yeah when you are not expecting it sure
Rules need to be clear before the fight if the fight is fair.
it wasn't a 'misunderstanding' about rules. Kurt was so high off oxy and cocaine that he thought he could take on the world, he picked on a legitimate fighter and paid the price.
@Sgt. Giggle Mittens Unless there's balls getting kicked and hair pulling.
Kurt coulda just told Puder 'get the hell outta here,,i don't wanna hurt ya" really obnoxiously & no one woulda thought shit about it...
For all Puder's faults, he did nothing wrong here, WWE should have learned their lesson on shoot fighting from Brawl For All.
Both his shoulders weren't down, the referee thought on his feet to quickly get Angle out of the situation. Puder was given a shoot fight to get himself noticed, he took exactly what WWE offered him.
Yes, apart from his right shoulder being up and then his left, clearly down. I sincerely hope Jimmy Korderas got a MASSIVE bonus for that week, because he saved WWE and one of their prized assets from colossal embarrassment.
@Maester Gryphon no they weren't. He had one shoulder up and one down fuckwit.
So they tried to haze Puder, he said "No", and since he was a former MMA fighter they couldn't do anything about it? Now we know why they didn't like him.
Exactly. Damn man the wwe company is a piece of shit
It's called a burpee Conrad
Warren305 not exactly
squat thrust? I've heard it called both.
Bends n thrust. USMC.
I met Puder in a Starbucks In Kentucky across river from Cincinnati! He was cool as shit took a picture on his phone sent it to mine and I’ve kept in contact here and there. Cool ass guy!
"This guy didn't eat his pasta..." lol. Wtf does that have to do with wrestling?
Carbohydrates dumbass.
They made them run sprints, then made them eat all this pasta complete with the creamy sauce and only gave them milk or butter milk to wash it down with, then had them doing sprints again. They were pushing hard and trying to make them puke, trying to see who would break and who toughed it out. Puder was not sprinting as instructed and didn't eat the pasta which is essentially cheating the whole thing.
It was fettuccini alfredo, milk and sprints. The combination of all that would have made the men extremely vulnerable (fatigued and nauseas) against Angle in a wrestling match.
Holden308 They were essentially trying to make sure nobody would embarrass Angle. Puder knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he was going to put Angle in that hold to get himself over.
@@Holden308 "cheating" my ass. It's bullshit hazing and Puder kobayashi maru'd that dumb crap.
Which one of the podcasts was the first one that Conrad started? The one that I first found, a few years ago, that introduced me to his podcasts and the idea of talking to and about all of these guys from wrestling’s past was the one Conrad did with Jim Ross (JR). I had actually forgotten about his JR podcast until one of the clips
Popped up in my recommendation other day. I thought it was very good but I don’t think it ever got the traction like this one with Bruce Prichard or the one he has with Eric Bischoff. Regardless, I find the content of The Grilling JR podcast to be as good as any of their other stuff. Cool to get a lot of these stories, sometimes being the same story but from 3 different points of view on the 3 different shows.
What was Puder supposed to do? If Angle wanted a worked match with these guys, then do a worked match. But, he challenged these gentlemen to a shoot match, shit happens. Nobody should be pissed at Puder. At all.
When Kurt got in Puder's face, I thought we was about to see more than verbal shots...
but there were none, were there? Puder had Angle SHOOK. Vince is lucky that Puder wanted to play ball, because if he'd have pimp slapped Angle right then it would have buried that whole organization. A fucking kid with 1 MMA fight under his belt embarrasses your top 'shooter' in 30-seconds, Angle couldn't have done shit to that kid even if he wanted to.
@@maxdecphoenix I have to agree. The kid wasn't even an expert in any style of ground game and its pretty clear from the one video alone. I don't think it would've killed the organization though. People knew he was a legit MMA competitor so him winning the match would've just put extra hype on him. He could've legit been the next big thing but Kurt got salty. He lowkey probably actually fucked up his rotator cuff a lil bit though. If someone doesn't tap, you're specifically told to keep applying pressure cause you might not have it locked it properly.
Work everything, because stuff like this can happen
please Conrad, do an interview w/ Jim Cornette
There's a lot of hindsight going on here. No one said anything about Puder. Angle went in and went a bit too far. Vince was convinced that 'Wrestling God' Kurt Angle could beat anyone.
I doubt Puder even knew what he was going to do before he did it.
It really didn't have as much thought as what they try to make out.
Listening to this really makes you understand h ou w Bill Demont got away with abusing talent for so long.
I think you mean Bill DeMott
How did he get away with it?
Lol “this mother fucker over here”
Kurt was or is an Olympic wrestler. Please don't compare Olympic wrestling to mma fighting. Different goals and purposes.
Considering this whole video is about an Olympic wrestler getting outdone by a guy trained in MMA....Of course it's going to be compared.
Got to be a good wrestler to have control in MMA fights.
Look at Henry Cejudo. 2008 Olympic gold medalist in wrestling who's the current UFC bantamweight champion.
@Itheworst Very fair...MMA and Olympic wrestling is a completely different sport. Having said that, Kurt beat Lesnar in a strictly Olympic-style wrestling match and Brock was an NCAA champ, as well had at least 70-80lbs on Kurt. If you hear Kurt talk about it, NCAA, no matter how good you are, is ENTIRELY different than Olympic level. Obviously Puder was trained in MMA, and likely Jiu-Jitsu, which again, is a completely different sport than Olympic level wrestling.
I've decided I need to be tough enough so I'm getting my squats up. I can do 250 before I do the rest of my leg workout. I hope I can do 1000 someday.
Sounds like if you wanna be “tough enough” you need to work on how much pasta and milk you can handle in your stomach
Not sure why humiliating people helps prepare them for a career in professional wrestling, where the art is to pretend to hurt people. Personally in Putter’s position I would have done the same thing. The only thing Putter do wrong, is he didn’t batter Hardcore Holly in the Rumble.
After the match Dan had a shirt made that said "I hurt Kurt"
Lol Jim Corbett at the end
EXCUSES
Love y’all into
Uh Brucie kurt didnt decide to pin him. Ref Jimmy Korderas dropped and did a fast count even puders shoulders were not flat on mat. Did it to if not prevent puder injuring kurt at least lessen the damage because angle was not going anywhere until puder let him go and his ego and image would not let him tap even if/when pudrr broke his arm..
Haha yup
My way of training 😂😂😂
Before i watch any of this I am willing to bet my life savings that at some point Bruce is going to claim credit for some or all of the story and lead up to what happened.
We gotta run em’
😂
Michael Hayes Voice 🤣
I love how they're talking about blowing these guys up and Puder is not having any of it. I guess I fail to understand why wouldn't they let these guys be at 100% before they get "stretched".
If you've never seen the video go see it.
The fact that angle still defend himself on this makes me have very little respect for him. He owes Daniel puder a huge apology
What a stupid idea to sent them out there after eating fettuccini.
eh
@@jakelang806 Shut your bitch ass up!
Whenever i hear these stories the only guy i respect is puder.
Be a star huh
I was hoping they'd talk about the payback on p
Puder
Kurt should’ve taken up the offer by Dana White to fight Puder. But Kurt knew he would’ve gotten a beat down. 🤣
Lol cute joke
I mean, Kurt was old as fuck in fighter years and Puder was probably in the middle of his prime. Kurts not a Randy Coutour wrestler and he's never trained his stand up a day in his life from my knowledge. He would've got wrecked.
no he didnt
@@noconaroubideaux9423 not even in 2004 with all the beating angle took in wrestling maybe but wrecked? Nah if kurt trained I'm sure he would of been fine
If it was a amateur match than their were some illegal moves being used...
clearly
Sounds like the writers must a been on MTV "Real World Challenge" kick or something..
Bruce has clearly never heard of minoru Suzuki.
Well he's not alone then is he.
Did the previous guy get a one count or a three count??? Cause if he got a 3 then????
I think it sucked the way they f***ed over Puder after this. The guy was in great shape and was a real fighter, kind of like a smaller Brock Lesner. But because he embarrassed Kurt, who was out to legit hurt someone they treated him like shit
They did it to save face after he in feont of dverybody almost broke kurts arm. That really made them look bad. Daniel did what he was told. They should've let him improv.
From what I understand, he wasn't really tryna be in the WWE anymore by the time this took place and he was just after that prize money. How true that is, I don't fucking know lol
Conrad describing a squat thrust as if it's a brand new dance. Jeez man, I know you don't do any exercise, but are you telling me you haven't even heard of it?
Also there is a difference between wrestling and jujitsu. Wrestling teaches the student to take the opponent down and control while jujitsu teaches the strongest attacks while being underneath an opponent. Pretty simple how he put kurt angle in a kimura lock. The crazy part is that he held it on kurt because the move takes strength imo
Tbh, they minimize what happened to an extreme degree. They got lucky that Puder got the kimura and wasn't a real high level grappler like that. Kurt's story is, beside the numb arm shit, was that he could've picked Puder up and slammed him on his neck but he gently laid him down on the mat and that these were supposed to be completely different rules. But the funny thing is the kimura was locked in prior to Kurt attempting to slam him so he couldn't even rotate his right shoulder to be able to pick him up which is why he got him like 2 inches off the ground and was like 'oh, fuck this' lol then, Kurt didn't even take him down, Puder pulled for half guard cause thats the position you want when you're on bottom and working a kimura. Puder had a full kimura in before they went to the ground and Kurt has enough experience to know that he don't want to be on the ground in away because chances are the kimura is gonna get deeper, which it did. Plus, you can't hide the fact that the refs were doing 3 counts for both matches. If the refs don't know you're supposed to be going by amateur rule then thats not what the fuck you doing lol they counted to 3 for his first opponent and when the match was over, nobody told the refs, 'hey, we're supposed to be doing a 1 count, not a 3 count.' claiming amateur rules when that obviously ain't what is going on is classes from an Olympic gold medalist.
@@noconaroubideaux9423 the entire thing was one big fuck up. Shouldn't have been doing it all, shouldn't have called out multiple guys, should've been counting for amateur rules, and shouldn't have been placed in a jujitsu hold in an amateur wrestling match. The entire thing was bad.
All puder did was,make it a fair fight.
Wrestling is real.
Wow. Sprint, eat all this pasta, drink all this milk. Sprint some more, do a workout, THEN wrestle. That’s FUCKING BULLSHIT. Clearly trying to set them up for embarrassment. But it was WWE who was embarrassed.
They should bring pewter back for Kurt angle's last match.
Angle doesnt want to lose his retirement match
Nathan Jones too late
@@nathanjones1209 yea and wheres puder now no where to be found and is a nobody while kurt has a podcast and still gets recognize around the world. You dope learn your facts
This is what happens when you fuck with a real G
That wasnt even an amateur pin...prichard is really reaching to defend kurt
Well yeah they were ending it.
There are no submissions in amateur wrestling, Angle wasn't thinking submission defense. He was thinking of getting the position.
Kudos to the kid but this was an amateur wrestling match, that joint lock would have gotten him disqualified instantly. If it was an MMA or grappling roll Angle would have been considering submission defense and was twice as big as the kid. Seriously he's an OLYMPIC WRESTLER kid had no chance.
4:40 yet another silly attempt to bury DP. He whipped Kurt's ass.
How did he whip Kurt's ass? Kurt legitimately won a shoot wrestling match. Even if it was because Puder didn't know the rules of a shoot wrestling match, Puder still lost a shoot wrestling match.
@@dexdorrey9834 he made Kurt his bitch
@Maester Gryphon by nearly snapping his arm in half lol
That whole segment never should’ve happened in the first place
I remember the crowd being so bored and they barely cheered
They tried to embarrass those young kids wanting to be wrestlers. By all means they need to be tested, but putting them in their with an Olympic gold wrestler for a shoot wrestling match? Over the line. I’m glad that Puder did that to Angle. I’m glad that he didn’t break his arm, but could’ve if he wanted to and showed a lot of those fake tough guys that you can’t fuck with everyone.
Daniel Puder and Bart Gunn got screwed over for being legitimate tough guys. Prichard is falling over himself to justify why Angle lost. This sounds like Ross and Cornette crying over the Brawl For All.
NOBODY is Beating Kurt Angle in a "Mat" Wrestling Match in his Prime... NOBODY!
WEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL - you know
They were having a wrestling bout and one guy shot with a kimura. That isn't wrestling lol. Of course Kurt wasn't prepared for it because that isn't what you do in wrestling.
"that isn't wrestling"
You know what else isn't wrestling? Striking and gymnastics.
A clear thing from all that tough enough stuff was that only 2 people showed respect for the industry/superstars andwould sell moves done to them. And they became miz and ryback. If puter went in and showed himself to be able to keep angle on his toes but then take the loss he would of got the respect he wanted.
As soon as he said "what are you doing" about the refs counting 3 ....i was like "yeah but ...your in a pro wrestling ring, i what do you want them to do, we as an audience aint gonna fucking know"
And then he adressed it lol
I don’t understand the ‘hazing’ thing. Like why when you’re new to the business does it mean you get bullied for years to ‘prove you can handle the business’? Puder was legit, I’ve trained with him myself, Bruce is right, it should never have happened. But if I ask you to have a wrestle and you get me in a hold, that doesn’t make you wrong does it? You got me, great! It’s just confusing to me.
So, Paul Heyman IS to blame 17:30...
0_0
Shortly after Daniel was in the royal rumble and Benoit and Bob Holly smacked that kid silly . Watch that on CZcams. They tore him apart with real chops
To be fair, if the idea is to have an amateur match then you can't use submissions anyway
Angle used a neck crank on the first guy. That's an illegal move in amateur wrestling, which Angle, being a gold medalist in wrestling, would know. He was cheating and high as fuck off of pain killers.
Daniel made Kurt look bad and Kurt got pissed. Wooptie fucking doo.
Sorry Bruce, you are wrong. Watch the video again, Daniel's right shoulder is not down. It is up for 1 and 2 but goes down at 3. He looks back at the ref counting and his shoulders go down at 3. Probably because of the confusion of the count: Is it a 1 count or a 2 count or a 3 count (all three are valid depending on what kind of wrestling)? and why is Bruce not addressing the real reason why this happened: Puder was pissed because he felt that Angle was being a bully and injured his friend. We all know accidents happen. But Kurt was working stiff and taking liberties to boost the storyline and himself. That's the story.
I don't think people get that its almost physically impossible to have a kimura in from half guard and have both shoulders on the ground. He was giving up the submission on the 3rd count.
Had Corderes not counted three as soon as possible Pruder would have snapped Angles's arm.
There's a reason pro wrestling is worked.
Kert got his ass kicked
Who’s kert?
They can say whatever they want,but Puder kicked Angle's ass,I would ve paid to see them fight for real.
Again,Puder won,period.
not really
Like how Bruce tries to explain how legit killer fighters arent trained yet to play pretend in a wrestling ring.
yeah bruce sorry but there aint no covering this one,angle was found out and no amount of defense is gonna change that