How Tires Can Save You Money on Gas & Some Shocking Truths About ECO Tires!
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
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In this video I look at how simply changing your tire pressures can save you money on petrol / fuel / gas, and how the new breed of ultra low rolling resistance tires are perhaps not the best idea despite some significant fuel savings!
Tyre pressures has a significant effect on the rolling resistance of a vehicle. The U.S. Department of Energy, states that for every 1-psi drop in pressure, you can expect your gas mileage to lower by 0.4 percent.
Even more significant is the rolling resistance of the tire you're fitting, which is why there's new ultra low rolling resistance tires. These tyres have up to 30% less rolling resistance than normal car tires, however that lower rolling resistance does come at a cost, a safety critical cost. Wet grip, wet braking and wet handling is significantly reduced, and the hydroplaning performance of the tires are severely limited.
The test article the data was taken from for the second half of the video can be found here: www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2...
What does the future of this tire type look like? It will be interesting.
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This video exposes something which is at the edge of hypocrisy in the automotive industry... Awesome stuff, Jonathan! Thank you!
1)get uhp tires so you can go round corners quickly and not slow down then speed up again. Also, it's way more fun.
Science
Saving the planet on every turn. My thoughts exactly.
Exactly how I drive 👍
that shreds and wears tires like crazy. i'd know, my tires look like i've been racing on a pretty abrasive track even though my car never went near a track. there are pieces flaking out.
i still do it but i don't recommend it.
@@tyrereviews Afternoon , you are the master of tires and need some advice please. At present I’ve got Bridgestone potenza s001
225/40/18 92y on a 2015 Audi diesel but the tires on sooooo noisy.
Been doing a little research and heard Goodyear are a good choice. Couple u please recommend what Goodyear tire would be the best for cabin noise in the uk.
Thanks Dan
The wet grip issue is SCARY. There's an old saying : You can't put a price on safety. Great video as ever. Cheers.
I had some of the Yokohama orange oil technology summer tires. Holy moley, downright dangerous in the wet. Like driving on oil. Never again.
Why major tyre manufacturers would risk their reputations by producing tyres with abysmal wet performance is beyond me. I have used Yokohama all year tyres in the past and they were great. Terms like "Eco" and "Summer" should act as a red flag for wet performance even with recognised brands it seems ? 🤔
The reduced tread life of low rolling resistance tires is also irritating. You're certainly not saving the environment by replacing tires more frequently.
Indeed. I think the counter from the tyre manufacturers is that the compound in the eco tyres should last as long, but there's no data to prove or disprove that.
I had some Conti eco contact 5's that wore out very quickly.
I had Continental Eco on a sporty rim, terrible on the wet. I switched for a good all seasons tire and I saved money by buying just one set for the whole year. Best eco solution in my opinion.
Lower rolling resistance tyres should have a feature of higher less- treadwear characteristics as they are very different in compound to make them efficiently with eco-friendly term for the environment.
@@tyrereviews They didn't last very long on my Civic. Mostly highway driving. I'll never get these types of tires ever again.
Wasted $800 on a set of e-Primacy for my daughters car. A bad decision due to a distinct lack of grip, especially wet braking and handling. Replaced 6 weeks later with Primacy 4 New Generation
Totally agree Stephen.
Here in the europe Continental sell an eco tyre/tire called the EcoContact 6, my new car was delivered with them fitted and I swapped them for a set of BF Goodrich tyres/tires after just 1500 miles. The Continentals were horrible in the rain and aquaplaned really easily, the BFGs are a much better all round drive.
I’m all for saving money on petrol/gas but not at the expense of safety.
@@RickyG84 I guy from work bought Poverty(Eco)Contact 6, even though the Hankook Ventus Prime 4 that I was looking for him where better and also 30$ a piece cheaper then Continental. He claims Continental has better wet braking, because EU label gave it A for that, while Hankook got B, even though in tests Contis had a significantly worse wet braking than Hankook.
@@DashCamSerbia Very true - Hankook seem to be making some excellent tyres - definitely more than a match for most these days. A friend of mine bought a Skoda recently it was running on Hankook’s he is very pleased with them.
I agree too it’s odd how a tyre can get an A rating on the EU tyre label but perform worse in real world tests then tyres with a lower rating. I wonder if Mr Benson can shed any light on how this happens? Thank god we have TyreReviews and Mr B to show us how these tyres actually perform when we spend so much money on them 👍🏻👍🏻
@@RickyG84 I've heard some tyre makers make the first bit of tread out of a softer compound to get better ratings on tests, once this outside layer is worn off the tyres reduce in performance.
My eco tires are the opposite, great in the wet but terrible in the dry
Here in the EU, the German magazine Autobild more or less confirmed what you stated: low rolling resistance tyres comprimise driving in the wet.
Sorry for the gap in content everyone, been super busy making content for winter so there's now at least 12 videos ready for the rest of the year! Get on board the lithium powered Oak and Iron tire inflator Kickstarter here! www.kickstarter.com/projects/oakiron/the-worlds-1-smart-tire-inflator-0 .
The test article the data was taken from for the second half of the video can be found here: www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-ViBilagare-Eco-and-Regular-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm
@iNSTAGiB if you’re based on the European tyre market (includes UK), and if snow/ice are only occasional with the o eram weather being described as ‘mild’, I would recommend the Bridgestone WEATHER CONTROL A005 EVO.
Why? Because in their bigger sizes and lower side profile, they behave very similar to a summer tyre, with a very good steering feel and excellent capabilities in shallow water down to very cold temperatures. They do the job under the odd snowy day but are far from the best competitors on it. Their main trade off is that they wear quicker than others.
Of course than this is based on past year reviews and personal experience, but Jonathan will surely come up with amazing suggestions in his new videos 🙌
Don't know if it's too late to include, but since every tyre tread width differce a bit even if the section width on side of tyre is same.
I know Pirellis are know for narrower tread width. Reflects on some of your reviews too. Michelin's bit wider.
Would be interesting to know.
@@baranguler1168 these days michelin seem to be some of the narrowest tires available!
Appreciate your dedication m8
Thanks for the video.
I bought Bridgestone t005 due to the low rolling resistance, AND having impressive wet braking performance.
Your video's are my only guide for tyre's!
Thanks a lot 🙂
Glad you're liking them :)
this is a OE tyre for so many car companies from Ford to some JDM makes. is there a difference from the T005 and T005A though? @tyrereview; from where I reside, we definitely can't get the T005 ‘off-shelf’ as its, really, OE only. But we can get the T005A, i checked the thread they do look very slightly different!
@@gordonho5986 they’re different tyres. The T005 is the successor for the T001 Evo, while the T005A (a = asean) is the successor to the GR100.
They’re both premium touring tyres, but the non-A is more well rounded while the A more comfort orientated.
I really enjoyed my set of t005's, particularly the wet weather performance and I've not had anything better for economy. However after 2 years they were all perished with dry rot, cracking and the centre of the tread bubbled out and punctured.
Average speeds are interesting… I used to drive 35K a year cross country here in the UK and average speeds were typically between 35-40 mph. 45mph was a really good run and 30mph was poor, traffic bring the variable. A throttle and brake driving technique doesn’t make it faster, totally agree with the driving advice in this video. And there were times I was so thankful for having premium tyres with excellent wet grip. Great video.
Conclusion, ignore rolling resistance testings and go for wet grip. That rolling resistance problem will be solved by inflating the tyres correctly 👌
i have a pair of Falken ZE310 which is an excellent tire brought down by its high rolling resistance in Tyre Review tests. I just inflate it at between 33~35psi, higher than what I normally use with my other tires at 30~32psi. With 33psi you still get a fairly comfortable ride, while at 34psi it's beginning to feel a bit rough and bumpy already.
dry grip better 70mph on bald rsrrs is fine
one grade better on braking on wet rating is a lenght of car, one grade better on consumption is 1dcl better on 100km. i choose better braking anytime as i can save more money by not hitting anything when driving the car.
@@tomast9034 Yeah, length of a car can be a difference between a scratched bumper and totalling of the car. 1dcl/100km or something stupid like that surely isnt worth it - dont know about you but Im at 9-13l/100km depending on the driving style and traffic so it would have to save a liter to be considered worth it for me thats for sure :D
@@MisoElEven i have small cars with like 4,4 diesel /100km and tha other if not hustled does 6 /100 gasoline . but still just a new bumper is worth of fuel for half a year of driving for me :D:D
I always consider wet performance as the paramount factor in choosing the tire. What sense does it make to save yearly 200€ and wreck the car resulting in thousands of € in repair costs.
Death is also VERY expensive.
@@maxwellkeeling3781 well when that happens you are not around anymore to be bordered with
I've needed fuel savings on every drive, I've rarely needed the reduced stopping distance in wet or snow.
@@aaron___6014 but it takes only 1 time where you needed the reduced stopping distance in wet and you re gone
@@t-r-k7534 true, but it's very unlikely you'll die or kill someone because you selected tires for fuel economy over wet weather braking. You're better off buying new tires before they harden up or lose too much tread depth. A wet performance tire that's old and worn won't beat a newer mpg-focused tire. Life is full of situations where you only need one mistake to end it, best to be cautious but not overly cautious and fearful, as people are with tires.
I think it's important to note that the sacrifice in wet performance may be worth it if you live in a particularly arid place, but it would be nice if the manufacturers stated this clearly in their marketing and promotional materials. The same way that a winter tire comes with a 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol, maybe an eco tire should come with a symbol of the sun embossed in the sidewall. Or something.
That would be genius
Wet grip, wet grip, wet grip. My favourite criteria for tyre selection, balanced out with noise and resistance...
My favourite criteria are steering response, steering feedback, dry grip and driver confidence in the dry! I can't stand tyres with soft sidewalls, I'm a big fan of traditional stiff sidewalls like a Potenza S007A -- there are way too many Europeanised UHP tyres around with soft sidewalls these days (even the Potenza Sport has been given a softer more flexible construction than the S007A, sure it improves wet grip, but at the expense of being more vague in the dry than the old model... Is that worth it?).
Most UHP summer tyres have acceptable wet grip (I live in Australia where it's 10 degrees C at the height of winter and we use summer tyres year round :) ), and that's not a massive concern IMO. Obviously priorities in places where it's excessively cold and damp, like say the UK, are quite different than southern Australia, California or other dry Mediterranean climates!
With regard to fuel consumption it is your driving STYLE that can save you the most.
In a conventional car it is easy to conserve up to 20-25% by adapting your driving style: calm acceleration, quickly shifting up to the highest possible gear avoiding high revs, look farther ahead to avoid having to brake or stop, use CC when ever possible, remove roof racks if not being used, avoid lugging around unnecessary junk in the trunk (boot), leave AC off if not needed.
Agree, your right foot is best economy device and its fun.😅
Good stuff. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. It might be the middle of summer but it has just been a couple of days since I was driving on very wet roads and appreciated how surefooted the crossclimate 2 is in adverse conditions.
Welcome back john !!!!!
I never buy tyres until I've looked through your back catalogue of videos. I'm about to buy Michelin Primacy 4 for my new car. Thanks for doing all your hard work for us, even if it looks like your having a lot of fun!
A fantastic tyre, great choice!
@iNSTAGiB I've not tested the prime 4, I expect they're very close
Primacy 4 plus , so much quieter than the primacy 3s I had, so enjoying the comfort and safety they provide .
Thank you for your honesty about tires.. i admire your telling the truth..
Very good video!!!
Much appreciated this video! I’m in the market for tires and thinking about low resistance tires. I’m not thinking about low resistance anymore. I’ll instead go with what is safest and works best in wet conditions. My safety is worth more than the gas savings of low resistance tires.
Thank you for the excellent review and point of views.
Thank you very much. Love your videos.
Respect and admire your work and attention to detail with tyres.
I have EcoContact 6 on my Škoda Octavia mk3 (they were fitted from factory, I'm replacing them soon). I can confirm. It's absolutely terrifying how quickly you reach the limit in wet. Especially when cornering. Avoid at all costs. They are however, very very quiet. I give them that.
Thank you. Those words we needed. Those are two oponent things on tyres. Safety vs rolling resistance.
Just an idea, a feature on doing the moose avoidance test (slalom) using different tyres (squishy to sporty) would be interesting 👀😁
U r the best Jon. Always enjoy your non bias, scientific journalism. Biking is good!
Excellent report and true.
Brilliant! You are preaching to the convertted with me - but people need to hear all this! Practically my Falkens which have poor rolling resistance were actually barely any different to the Dunlop SP Sport Blue response or the Continental PC5's that I had previously. How I drive, reading and planning and being aware of my gears and throttle - make much more duifference - so does correct tyre pressures!
I looked at ultra low rolling resistance summer tyres and eventually concluded that for most U.K. drivers who want one set of tyres for all year round, look no further than the excellent all-season Michelin CrossClimate 2: its pricey but it wears very slowly (and is designed to still grip well when worn); it’s has excellent rolling resistance for an all-season tyre and of course functions well in cold weather.
The biggest thing you can do to save fuel is to read the road better as Jonathan says; also try a lower cruising speed: 65mph will save a noticeable amount of fuel compared to 75mph and you really won’t get there any later if you just leave a few minutes earlier!
60mph is even more optimal for cruising speeds. The reason HGVs are typically limited between 54-56mph instead of the actual legal limit of 60mph is because of the significant fuel savings for haulage companies.
If you are on £20-50 an hour, setting off early and say still having 5 miles to go on an hours journey is more expensive than the money saved cruising at 65mph instead of 70.
Imagine a three hour journey at 75mph instead of 65mph. That’s 30 miles. That’s almost half an hour at 65mph.
@@paarker it doesn’t work out as much as that in practice I find - try using your car’s on board computer to measure the average speed over two entire journeys at 65 and then again at 75. I found that the average speed is only a few miles per hour higher - you can then make your own judgement as to what works for you.
Great reviews, thank you.
Such an informative and honest video, loved it! Thanks and keep up the excellent work on this channel! 🙏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you this is just the video I needed. I live in a rainy city and was wondering about these exact trade-offs and benefits of eco-tires
Great advice..we need people like you..Thanks.
Excellent information here! I was very much hoping that you touched on the wet grip compromise topic, and you nailed it. Other fuel saving ideas are to get a scooter, find public transport options, organise a ride-share or carpool deal, or just stay at home and watch Tyre Reviews videos on CZcams instead of going to work and stuff.
Glad it was helpful!
This video was amaizing, clear as the sky
As always, an excellent review and point of view. I love this planet, it is the only one we have but, I can't sacrifice wet performance because I value my safety, my loved ones' safety, and those around me. You can't put a price (or cost) on that!
By the way, have the alignment checked/adjusted at least once a year. The car uses less energy, and the tires last longer.
Good point about getting alignment checked, I should have included that!
If you love the planet drive an EV.
excellent breakdown
I always love your videos and your tests. I only average maybe 5000 miles per year. I've always heard for optimum performance and safety that it's recommended to replace tires after 5 years regardless of mileage or if there's tread left.
One thing I'd be interested in would be comparing two identical tires, one set being new tires to maybe a 5+ year old set with still good tread life, in order to see how the performance of tires degrades with time.
and one set regardless of age with a the minimum Tread life left and a set that’s worn out.
That's a great idea. Would love to see a vid like that.
Extreme temperatures and UV exposure have a dramatic effect on tyre performance. It is obvious. Why does that need measuring and what constitutes a relevant test?
@@idonotwantahandle2 it's obvious that not everyone lives somewhere that experiences extreme temperatures or high UV exposure. Thankfully I'm in Seattle that experiences neither extreme temps nor much UV exposure. I wasn't asking whether you thought this test was relevant. Al, why don't you keep your useless comments to yourself?!
@@grocerylist Because my comments are not useless or self centred. It is you who is only interested in factors which may affect you. That speaks volumes for you. There are other people who experience different conditions than what you do. They should be able to get good advice too.
Spot on advice. You can often coast fully (in gear) on steeper descents too. I say in gear as I had to explain to a friend who was doing this in neutral why that didn't work for fuel saving!
In gear and above a certain RPM the injectors are totally shut off
Another excellent video!
Agreed! I had Michelin Eco something back in 2016 when I bought my bmw and was crap with water at any speed. And I had a small accident with them, lost control with rain and did a spin at 80km/h.... Moved to cross climate. And all ok now and the average consumption is the same.
Can't wait for more content...keep those videos rolling buddy :)
Trying my best :)
What a shocking result - more people need to see this video! I'm running Michelin Cross Climate 2 now on my A3 (a TR recommendation - thank you!). I'm sure it's not the best in every (or any?) category but they have plenty of wet and dry grip over a massive range of road conditions and temperatures. I'd hate to run a tyre that was hobbled in some regard, especially wet braking!
Great video as always.
And I just backed my first kickstarter, since I was looking for this and blow up my tires in front of my house.
Hope to get it in September!
I really like mines. My wife's tires have never been so inflated lol
Good info thanks
Honest review about so-called eco tyres. Respect. Just on pressure: tyre pressure is critical. On a track day, I drove their at the recommended 43 PSI (300 KPA) for high speed operation. After a few hot laps the tyres warmed up and the pressures read 49 PSI (338 KPA), resulting in feathering of the rubber and jolting on cornering. After decreasing the pressure to 41 PSI, the tyre feathering disappeared and the the cornering was smooth. Also, the footprint of the tyre on the road was even, meaning wearing become even. When driving on the road, given tyres never reach track temperature, I always inflate them to about 41 PSI, given the temperature won't change hardly under normal road driving conditions - at least for this specific vehicle. While not everyone has the means to track test their tyres specific for their own vehicle, just like the video says, always stick to the manufacturer's recommendation for tyre pressure, and don't ignore your tyre pressure warning indicator - if you have one! Top video 🙂.
.... the tyre pressure on the tyre is not the tyre pressure you should use. That is listed on the car., usually in the door jamb on a sticker or the car manual. Use that.
@@Nieheh Agreed, at least for ordinary driving conditions.
Solid advice :)
Best video out here on eco tires
Can’t agree more. My Accord hybrid comes with Energy Saver A/S tires which I started to complain about in my first day behind the wheel. The front tires easily lose traction even on dry surfaces!!!
As always, a really good video!
I would love to see motorcycle tyres videos. I know some people here would also like it, and there is not as much info and tests compared to car tyres.
Hope it happens some day :)
Keep up the good work!
I used to ride motorbikes but I was never goodenough to test. Have you seen the Fortine channel? He's excellent!
@@tyrereviews Of course I follow the Fortnine channel! It's one of my favourites, but it reviews like 3 tyres a year, I need more cause I'm a tyre geek 😂
In the US I bought a '19 Honda Accord hybrid with Michelin Energy Saver tires in 150 50r 17". I just changed those Michelin tires out after 33,000 miles with a expected life of over 50,000 miles and after reading reviews I'm not alone. I now have Bridgestone Firehawk AS v2 and I have hit 48 miles per gallon using the new tires, but it requires more work to do the same job in being gentle with the pedal. It's been three years since buying the car, but I vaguely recall that the new Michelin's LRR tires didn't immediately give me benefits either. Maybe it's they had more tread and became more efficient yet possibly more risk driving on LRR tires with less tread.
Great info! Have read different articles hinting at much of what you said; but you lay it all out in a plain & understandable way. Side Note: On my Harley, tire pressure plays a BIG role in both handling and tread wear, so it's something I check every week, and possibly even more often when I'm on a road trip where daily temperatures and elevation can change quite often.
I can imagine a soft bike tyre on a big heavy bike is a great combination for high wear!
Well done. Only correction is the low tread depth for RR being air pumping. The reduced mass along with the bending (flattening) of the curved tread to the road as it bends to the central plain that is between the steel belts. The less distance between this plane between the belts and the road makes the tire roll easier (less RR).
Thanks to your reviews, I run Continental DWS06's on my BMW 7 series and LOVE them....Thank you!!!!
Great to hear! Get a review on www.tire-reviews.com sometime :D
Another effect of increasing tyre pressures over standard is a reduced contact patch, which means less grip.
Good video anyway, oh and btw, I've worked in garages for decades, and until TPMS came along, most (about 3/4 I reckon) don't check their tyre pressures regularly, some don't check it all between services!!! (FI's!)
That does not surprise me. TMPS at least help us a little!
Roll on Autumn so I can cool down and... more all season and winter tyre tests. Which I love thankyou 💪😁
There's a lot this year!
Thanks for such important information! At least recent years the eco tires will not be in my tire buying plan.
Excellent, Thank you! I did find that switching to low rolling resistance tires did in fact save me a lot of money, and yes I also carefully put extre air pressure in my tires which my records who's also improves fuel economy. I have done that for over two years in all my cars and I use a tore tread depth gauge to check for overinflation and it has never happened, so what I have learned is that radial tires are not easy over inflated, that was actually very easy with the ancient bias belted and bias ply tires that we have not used on passenger vehicles for decades. I also spoke to a few of the vehicle manufacturers' engineers in person (I'm an engineer) and they verified that extra air is helpful and most people arr not sensitive enough to discern the difference in ride quality at all, they also told me that it helps normal drivers with emergency maneuvers but I have no way to test that scientifically.
Interesting information, thank you! That said, I would hope even the most average of driver could notice the slight change in comfort from extra air, but everything else should be fairly similar
@@tyrereviews I have actualy experenetd with tore pressure for years (I'm an engineer) and have run teh pressure all the way up to 44 PSI cold which is the limit for the tires I was using (I checked with eh manufacturers and it was safe for my use) and the passengers never noticed a difference, yet the fuel economy increased noticeably. I ran that experiment on two of my cars for 10 years and checked the tread wear weekly, they wore completely evenly across the tread, which is exactly what the tore manufacturers (Continental, Michelin and Goodyear) wold me would happen because radials do not bulge in the center of the tread like the old bias tires used to do very easily.
@@Billy123bobzzz Good info, thanks!
I have the TruContact tires that have Eco+ advertised. I wouldn't mind it not being a true Eco tire since I love how quiet, smooth and how it grips dry and wet roads.
Great video and well done for bashing the manufacturer on compromising safety. The next train rumbling along must be the new tire regs, from what I could see noise is a big factor. They’ll end up with tires that can do 100,000 miles, silently. But then first sight of water become ditch finders.
My new car came with the EcoContact 6 tyres mentioned in this video. It took me 1000 miles to conclude that I was better off throwing them away. I now have something that actually works in the wet.
Based on the presented bargraphs, I think the Good Year Eff Grip Perf might be a very good choice. It does not excell in anything, but does everything well.
Regarding efficiency (low fuel consumption) it is up there with Conti Eco 6 and e-Primacy, but unlike the two eco champions, the GY EGP can hold its own in the performance oriented disciplines.
They were also the third cheapest!
Goodyear have done a great job positioning that tyre in the market!
Kind of what i thought, although not in the area i suspected like in the wet. Thought it would be a harder compound and less grip overall. But so bad in the wet? Oohh i haven't seen that one coming...
Thanks again for a great explanation about tyres!
I still drive and love my Continental PremiumContact 6's after seeing multiple of your videos and testing myself for what i want and need.
Have been inflating them more lately and try to avoid highways as much as possible and anticipate a bit more.
Thanks again, and i'm looking forward for more content soon
I still run PC6 in the UK and inflate them 2psi over recommended :)
Love my Good Years EGP , they give so nice feed back , go streight , hold the longest , simply dance and in my country is no speedlimit ...
I have known about better wet and snow handling tires lowering fuel efficiency for a while when I switched from Toyo Open Country tires to Michelin Defender LTX tires. The Toyo was rated for 35,000 miles and had poor wet and snow grip. Michelin is rated for 70,000 miles and has excellent wet and snow grip and much deeper treads. However my MPG dropped by 1-1.5 MPG in my light pickup.
For bicycle tirres, there’s a surprising amount of nuance on this topic. Higher pressure is faster on perfect road but as the road gets rougher, lower pressure becomes more efficient as the tyre deforms more around the bumps.
I’m curious to what extent these concepts also apply to automobile tires?
Interesting question!
Great video. Regarding wet grip, I am always amazed that it is such a big deal. Sure if you live in a wet climate but for vast areas of the great plains it is not that wet. Vancouver Atlantic coast sure a big deal, but elsewhere?? Who is driving in a total deluge every day. Also there are two components of wet tire performance. Grip and hydroplaning. From what I understand, grip on merely wet pavement is highly affected by tire compound. Softer is better. So your racey summer tires will grip GREAT until you hit standing water. Hydroplaning is a different beast entirely. Lots of sipes and a narrow tire being the best option. Being from Canada my choice is to run Full Winters (massive mileage hit around 10%) Then find as blocky as possible 3 season tire that gives up a bit of rain performance. Then for the 7-8 months these are on (drier weather as well) I am getting some mileage back.
I would love to see a tire test of how much gas big mudder tires so fashionable on pick up trucks burns up. I am certain at highway speeds each gigantic tire/wheel is burning as much fuel as an entire small car. Between the rolling resistance and the thrashing of the air, it must be remarkable. So a test of how much WORSE you can make your mileage would be interesting.
Yet another great video, thanks for the comeback!
I have for years been wondering if tyre pressure recommendation changes with different tyre size on the same vehicle.
For example, the manufacturer of my vehicle recommends a 32psi on 195/60-15 tyre, but I'm running 205/45-17s.
Should I consider 32psi on that setup equivalent to stock, disregarding comfort impact with such a setup, should I go higher or lower?
Top advice has iam a taxi driver ill stick with new budget tyers cheap and reliable
Thanks mate you saved me loads of money.
Good video
I honestly can't think of a situation where I'd ever recommend using these. Tires are the only part of the car touching the road (unless you are doing something very wrong), so the most important factor for them to have is grip. If your tire has no grip, nothing else on the car is gonna be able to make up for that. There's plenty of other ways to get better fuel efficiency though.
This video pretty much highlights the biggest complaint I have about LRR tires. My Bolt EV ships with narrow (for a 3600lb car) 215 width Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires. The dry grip is ok, but the wet grip in any direction is horrible. Anything more than about 1/4 throttle below 20mph means a burnout, or about 1/2 throttle below 50mph. Part of that is down to almost 270 ft*lbs of torque, but it’s mostly down to the tires. Braking is the same, lots of ABS activation. They also become basically unusable in the rain at freeway speeds after about 5/32” tread depth, the hydroplaning and constant direction changes when hitting little puddles becomes unbearable. Cornering grip is acceptable when wet but a noticeable step down from dry grip. The exact same car with a set of 225 width Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 is like a night a day difference. You can floor it from a stop with only minor slippage in the wet and the braking will pull your eyes out (relatively speaking). Unfortunately, you lose about 10-15% of your range just between these 2 tires. There might be a better happy median, like a good Touring tire with good all around grip vs a UHP all-season tire, but still.
Oddly, my Ioniq5 doesn’t use a specific LRR tire. It uses the Michelin Primacy Tour A/S, and a wide 255mm width. The efficiency isn’t great, but the grip is pretty good.
Also oddly, despite the fact that gas has hit nearly $6/gal here, 2022 has been a record year for the number of people getting pulled over for driving over 100mph near where I live. This is also despite the fact that, due to the “defund the police” jackasses getting their way, traffic patrols are nearly nonexistent around here.
A few points I want to add :
The starting thread depth of LRR tyres is lower than other tyres, that mean three things :
1- the difference in RR is actually lower when looking at the average during the entire tyre life, test the PRimacy 4+ and the e-Primacy RR at the wear limit and the difference will be much smaller.
2- same for the wet performance actually, compare the, Primacy 4+, the e-Primacy and the budget tyre when they are both at the wear limit, both Michelin will perform a lot better than the budget and the e-Primacy won't be that far behind the Primacy 4+.
3- if it's the environment you want to save, not a good solution as the shorter life will compensate for the gain in fuel.
For me, standard Touring tyres are the best compromise and remember that the way you drive can make a huge difference in fuel consumption.
All good points. The counter argument is that the compound in the ULRR tyre will be tweaked to provide the same life as a normal tyre at a higher starting tread depth. I've not seen any data to back this up though.
@@tyrereviews Michelin Energy Saver A/S on our US spec Ford Focus Electric lasted for 70k Km. Combined with 49f/51r weight distribution on an fwd car it was the worst tire I have ever used. In the wet outright dangerous.
One of my car has the Primacy 4 and the other has Goodyear Efficientgrip performace 2. I love both tyres and goodyear now has very impressive even longer lifetime than michelin.
totally agree!!!
Funny seeing people from USA saying how $5.30 per gallon is expensive... it is literally just catching up with "OLD" fuel prices in EU just now.
Yeah but all our vehicles do 18mpg. My car in the UK does 40mpg so cost per mile is now around the same for me in the UK or US
@@tyrereviews well, the gallons are bigger there too :) So you have that going for you. That 40mpg (Imperial) might be around 32mpg for the US gallon as the Imperial gallon is about 20% larger than the US gallon.
Having lived in both Europe and the US, I do appreciate the lower fuel prices we have here.
Well, where i live(eu) is currently around that old price.
Your best video ever
That is usually the way I shop for tyres, fine the tyre which is best at wet grip, then as high as it can be on economy and dB rating is kind of nice to have. AB or BB or AB is usually available for most sizes and at acceptable dB ~70. So wet grip always first, then economy and then "comfort" although there are more subtle differences, which is why tyre reviews are go to channel to find out.
I have the EcoContact5 and wet braking is indeed pretty bad, stability in the wet at least straight is alright though (no aquaplanning). I have almost 100k kilometers on them and the fronts are nearly gone but I’m happy with that mileage. I have a friend who has 40k on his EcoContact6 and his fronts are nearly gone. Driving style and weight of the vehicle over the driving wheels seems to be crucial.
Since every local petrol station in the UK started to charge to inflate tyres I now use my mountain bike track pump in the car. It inflates faster that all those 12v pumps and then a quick check with a digital pressure gauge. No need for a "car" inflator device
Great stuff as always. Whenever I hear "low rolling resistance", to me it just reads "low grip". It's really pretty simple. I didn't realize that they had less tread depth as well. Jeez, what a crock, just pure marketing antics. Good gripping tires are arguable the safest thing on any car- and no, that doesn't mean everything has to have super performance tires.
PS: What's up w/ the Utah license plate? Don't expect to hear a Brit on a channel spelled "Tyre", not "Tire" having my home states plates. Kinda neat!
Thanks for the excellent video. I really hate gimmick like low rolling resistance tires. They are garage in luxury box. Handling bad, not comfortable, expensive, no grip in wet and dry, low thread depth. We loose everything about a good tires is supposed to be. The net probably not more than 2% but i will not sacrifice safety, comfort, and fun just for 2% less fuel consumption. 6% gain in fuel minus price, low usable profile. We are willing to pay 10% more to have more comfortable rides.
Can confirm, Michelin Energy Saver was scary in the rain.
I LOVE your site and your reviews are incredible: Next stop is to test "All Weather" tires: winter rated but usable all year round. We just put Nokian WR G4 on my partners Audi Q5 and may do the same on my 328 X drive in the fall...Nice to get rid of a second set of rims to drag around. Whats best?????
Great and informative video, it's really a shame we don't have many if any tests about this.
I'd like to add that low rolling resistance tyres "might" make more sense for electric vehicles because for those cars rolling resistance makes up a bigger percentage of the energy losses so a 30% reduction won't apply to a 20% rolling resistance loss but to say 40%. This is also the reason things like aerodynamic wheel covers are a thing for electric cars but not so for ICE cars.
Still, the reduction of wet performance and the reduction in thread depth, especially considering EVs are heavier and have more torque thus wearing tyres faster, are pretty big issues.
You are totally correct, from what I understand tires have around a 3x impact on EV compared to ICE.
I totally agree with you but you don't necessarily need an ultra low rolling resistance tyre but one that performs well at rolling resistance on a standard group test like Goodyear for instance with the EfficientGrip performance and performance 2 having good rolling resistance in a number of reviews not only on tyrereviews. Something like the conti ecocontact 6 will only be slightly better but with much worse all round performance.
Thanks, Jon, for another interesting and informative video.
Achieving lower rolling resistance by using shorter tread depth seems like a bone-headed solution to me. I don't mind driving my tread height down through normal wear, as that contributes to less tread block squirm and better handling as the tires wear, but I don't like the idea of paying for a new tire that already effectively has the tread depth of a used tire. It's like paying more for performance tires with a softer rubber compound that will result in shorter tread life but not getting the performance benefit. As you well said, every tire is a compromise of competing performance characteristics and one has to accept that there is usually no free lunch when one selects a tire that excels in only one aspect of performance.
I'm okay with the degradation of wet road handling on tires with short tread depth, whether through normal wear or by initial design. When the road is wet I just adjust my speed and driving style appropriately, so wet performance is not a high priority factor to me in a tire. To me, it's a bonus as long as other more important characteristics are there. In fact, I view the stellar wet road performance of my Michelin PS4S tires on my 370Z as a waste of money for my driving conditions and what I do need the tires to be able to do if I do encounter wet roads.
That looks like a good gig Jon, being required to drive a Porsche Cayenne S by the company😉
I think the tread depth issue is because the EU label, and testers like myself, all test tyres at new tread depth, so if they want a better score in tests they have to start with less. It would be interesting to shave down tyres to the same tread dpeth then retest
Actually, those eco tyres seem ideal for you. The ecocontact 6, for example, will cover more distance than most other tyres that have a higher starting tread depth.
@iNSTAGiB Hope! Not in Europe.
@iNSTAGiB in the video, he said the ExtremeContact DWS06 Plus is a great tire, and I completely agree. I use them on my car for daily driving, and very much can recommend them for spirited driving. They don't have the grip levels of, say, Pilot Sport 4 S, but for on-road driving, I've never encountered a situation where I felt more grip was needed.
@iNSTAGiB ah! My apologies
You should also adjust your tire pressure seasonally as temperatures change. cold weather, more air, hot weather less air to maintain the same pressure.
excellent study. e.Primacy perform horribly bad in wet.... learned from crash
Good and honest review and info. This is why I am subscribed! Keep up the good stuf. I have one related question: hoe much does the Profile width make on the fuel economy? My Honda CR-Z has two options 195 or ,205 in width
Usually narrower is less fuel use, but I'm not sure about the specifics, maybe the EU label can give you an indication
As a quality tyre inspector in Nokian Tyres I really liked this video very well researched.
Many consumers dont think about MPG when they buy the cheapest tyres that say "Made in China"
Nokian make some great tyres!
@@tyrereviews I can agree! Thanks for the compliment
The Nokian Hakka Green 3's seem okay and give better performance in the wet if you are concerned about that it might be a good option. One thing people should take into account though is how often it is actually wet in the area they live and do most of their driving.
I live here in Yorkshire, England in the UK and you would think that isn't it always raining here? Well that's what I thought as well until I checked the average rainfall per year and when I calculated the hours of rain per year in total and converted it to days it didn't see to be very high at all (it was less than a month) and certainly not high enough to justify going for tyres that are better in the wet than the dry, or even better for rolling restistance.
In my city I think we only have about 15 inches of rainfall per year. Why do we always get that image of being a rainy country? My city is one of the windiest in the UK but at the moment we are very hot and dry. When I check the forecast for other parts of the country it seems to be only Wales and Scotland that are experiencing any rain.
If you lived in Cherrapunji or Mawsynram in India, or any tropical region of the world then I would definitely have some wet tyres to hand for rainy season. But even there the rainy season doesn't last all year maybe five or six months of the year and the rest of the time it is mostly dry.
For where I live I think a dry tyre or a tyre that gives better rolling resistance would be the better options right now over one that is better in the wet. On the odd times that you do have some rain you can always take more care driving. Out of the times when there is rain it is unlikely to be heavy and for the few times that it might be you can always drive slower and more carefully.
Wet grip being compromised is definitely one safety factor. Another i find is braking distances which are severely reduced in emergency stops. All 3 of our cars were fitted with Nokian Hakkapelitta R3 tires and the stock brake pads dont slow them down fast enough upon braking like the way the stock tires did. We definitely lost a few feet in the braking department. And is definitely a safety issue to me. The cars literally dont slow down any more😂
I believe in tires that have related with silica compound which most manufacturers are now racing to produce such high quality materials at the same time in accordance with eco-friendly environmental compliance.
Great! For me wet grip is more than crucial! And the transition between dry and wet the most tricky . For now i use Goodyear f1 5 in the bmw f40 and contieco. In the Yaris. Bridgestone t005 as bmw standard is not good choice!
A different aspect on rolling resistance to consider is wheel diameter. Changing from 17inch to 15inch (@ the same overall diameter, so mounting a tyre with a higer sidewall) can make a petrol saving of about 5%.
Didn’t know about the thread depth, was well aware of the compromise in grip (as you can’t have sticky for grip and less sticky for less rolling resistance). So not on my cars !
I was using Bridgestone EP300 economy tires for a number of years on my 1800cc CVT car. Normally getting over 700km with 50L tank and my fill ups when needle hits bottom and car indicates range 0, is around the 45L. I drive mainly highway to get to and from work. Changed to Michelin PS4 this year in February for a bit of a change. Michelins are very soft and noticed after driving, a lot of debris like leaf matter stuck together the tire. However better cornering, stopping distance and overall comfort and noise levels but range has dropped dramatically. I’m getting 100km less for each tank of fuel! Really regret the decision for the PS4‘s. I’d change back to the Bridgestones next time but don’t think they had shallower tread depth mentioned in this new era of eco tires as they lasted 4+ years and 55 500miles/89 000km. Always be coasting at red lights regardless of fuel prices and driving conservatively to squeeze range to maximum. Paying USD3.18/L here where I am but sometimes special offer discounts can save some cash.
On my e-Golf, I swapped out the 16” wheels (Bridgestone Turanza T001 205 55 R16) for some 17” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4 225 45 R17. There was an efficiency/range hit of ~15% from the stickier rubber. There is weight increase for both wheels and tyres but I think the rolling resistance is the main cause of the efficiency hit. Would be great to find the holy grail of a low rolling resistance tyre that can hold on in the wet.
Hopefully someone will make one! The Asymmetric 6 seems to be pretty good
@@tyrereviews Looking at your 2022 Tyre Reviews 17 Inch Summer Tyre Test, the rolling resistance of the Asymmetric 6 was 8.48 kg.t. This is pretty similar to the PS5 of 8.84 kg.t (I haven't been able to locate a value for the PS4 though). The T005 value of 7.01 kg.t is impressive but the wet grip won't there (though the 2022 ViBilagare Eco vs Normal Tyre Test placed it 3rd out of 9 compared with 5th of 9 in your test (not that the tests are for the same tyre size or class)). It would be really interesting to see a test done with an EV using different tyres that looked at the usual parameters plus energy consumption. Also a test with an EV using different wheel sizes (say 16, 17 & 18), different wheel weights and styles (aero etc) and tyre widths (say 205 vs 225) with the same model tyre would be awesome. I know the Model 3 has better range with smaller wheels.
I do high milage
need low resistance tyres to reduce fuel bill
don't mind slippy tyres in wet as I have x drive and I enjoy slipping out.
It would be cool to have an ev focused tyre review video, where this message can be given as well. I'm wondering how regenetive breaking affects all of this. In Teslas, if you let off the throttle mid-corner and start regening, it is possible to get the rear out of line a bit. But range is also important. Seems like a vast area of content to explore.
I have an ev video explaining why things are more important on EVs, check it out!
I'm impressed with Michelin Energy Savers & the Plus ;-)
Haha Yesss was waiting for a new episode. The only problem is that I have ti wait for your next episode :P
There's lots coming in autumn! Perhaps too much!
@@tyrereviews haha never enough :)