FRONT LOCKER vs REAR LOCKER vs TWIN LOCKED COMPARISON! + AIR vs AUTO vs E LOCKER - Shock answer!
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 04. 2021
- Jocko explains the pros and cons of front & rear lockers, different kinds of lockers and asks a handful of industry experts what they think!
Whether you're thinking about a front auto locker or a rear air locker, there's a lot to consider! Let us know below if you've made up your mind on what you're going to do with YOUR 4WD! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Jocko is by far my favourite presenter, seems so genuine and down to Earth. Not to rag on the other boys too much, but they should dial back the TV act they put on.
I have
Totally agree. Love the group but damn jocko knows his stuff
I really enjoyed shuno when he had the old dirty 30 just was a really build it drive it something anyone could do
More attainable I’m trying to say
jock's mechanical knowledge is fantastic. a great addition to the show.
Graham - "I've had air lockers in shorty for 15 years and never had any problems..." -- I've got some old 4WD Action Dvd's that say different. ;)
Yeah, makes it evident that the channel is more about selling stuff than giving actual useful advice.
@@NBM397 They are OGs in the 4wd youtube game and helped run a magazine and were making DVD's long before them. give them some credit and cut them a break. They gotta make a living too. If they dont like something, they'll tell it like it is.
@@intimatespearfisher it means they're one of the originals
@@NBM397or just maybe that he hyperbolized like all humans do on a day to day basis.
few minutes into this and loving how Jock explains things. Top guy. 👍
Thanks mate!
Yep , the knowledge this bloke can share is privileged to us..
Jock is a great addition to the team! So much knowledge and great presenting skills 🤙🏽
For sure my faith in 4wd 24/7 (to me it will always be 4wd Action!) is restored...finaly a review not based on sponsorships and brand royalties! Well done Jock, when brands aren't shoved down our throats, the fans are raving and can't wait for next episode...even the ol boys took a break from the sales and spoke their minds even if they disagreed...best episode for the last 6 months at least!
Hey Graham! Load a wheel barrow and try pushing it up a step. Now turn around and try pulling it. 😁
That is a great comparison.
Love Graham’s comment you push a wheel barrow you don’t pull it. I would love to see him push a full wheel barrow up a step. If you get to a step you pull it up. Front locker is the way to go and just weld it.
just weld it?????
why do you need to weld a locker? lol
@@MrTonaluv if you know someone that can weld depending on what they charge you, you only need to replace the oil. Dont do it if it doesnt have free wheeling hubs or converable auto hubs
Clearly Graham has never worked in a job involving a wheelbarrow
@@bradhaines1905 welding an open diff turning it into a permanently locked diff is crazy on the front. How do you steer? It will wind up badly on the bitumen!
I've never understood diffs quite like I do right now. Jock, you're a winner.
Jocko that hilux of yours is a awesome rig 👍👍
Love watching that diesel Hilux just nearly idle up obstacles like that! Hard core off road vehicles and diesels are almost not even in the same worlds here in America, and that low-end torque looks amazing!
I’d like to see testing in different terrain.. soft sand in particular...
Exactly. How does each locker perform on the arctic tundra?
I find my lockers pretty useless in sand. I just seem to bury myself faster.
Agreed we have more sloppy mud than rocky hill climbs where I am
I find the opposite 🤔@@volvogt21
@@terrydactyl7708 that's interesting. Do you do your challenging sand driving in high or low range? A patrol mate I crossed the Simpson desert. He did most of it in low. Yet my t/d landcruiser was far happier in high. Low just dug holes and gave me no momentum.
Awesome, been driving four wheel drives for 34 years. First time I have had a proper grasp on lockers.
Jock is such a great dude to do these parts of the show! We love ya jock.
Also great getting quick opinions at the end from different cars. Great idea
I have an auto-lokka in the front of my ZD30 D22 navara with manual locking hubs, and i can say that they are damn amazing. I have definitely noticed the stiffer steering when on higher traction surfaces, and in most cases, just backing off the power a bit helps immensely. You can even leave the hubs in and engage 2HI, and barely make a difference to steering, but on smooth surfaces you can sometimes hear them clicking. In saying that, they are mind blowing on soft sand, you can feel the vehicle clawing its way through instead of being pushed. Super easy to install.
I think the most amazing thing though is with descents. With the lokka automatically engaged, you get both wheels braking forces even if one wheel is in the air, and descents are incredible more controlled. Without the lokka, if you lose traction on one front wheel it will more then likely spin faster as its being forced to spin via the transfer case, and the other wheel will lock up, causing a slide, as there is nothing actually forcing it to spin anymore, because the other side is in the air. That just doesn't happen with the front locker, and the control while on a gravel hill suprised the hell out of me.
So yes definitely a vote for the autolokka. Yes, occasionally you will get the stiffer steering, and probably the most inconvenient time will be when you are about to go around a corner, but if you let your foot off, its fine.
As for front/rear, scientificly, its a hard choice. I mean, LSDs are already in rears, so a locker would also help more. But in saying that, the front locker on an IFS vehicle is a no brainer. With a rear LSD already helping, the front locker works well with IFS's lack of traction.
The way i think of it is this: going up hill, most of the power and center of gravity would be over the rear wheels, so those two wheels will more then likely ALWAYS be on the ground. Like jocko said, once you have one of the front wheels are in the air, you now have a 2wd vehicle. A front locker will at least give you a 3wd vehicle. A rear locker would not. You see this in never every clip here in this video, its usually one of the front wheels in the air. Hell its probably 90 percent of the time, you have a front wheel in the air. Once a front wheel is in the air, the entire front becomes useless.
3wd vs 2wd.
In the case of ute with more weight on the front due to the engine, and an empty tray, your two front wheels will spend more time on the ground, and with the rear LSD already helping, giving you a rough "2.5wd" a front locker would go back to give you 3.5wd. That, and with the front locker helping prevent one wheel from spinning wildly, and then when hitting the ground it causes the CVs to snap, you simply dont have that issue anymore, and there is no need to "Send" it as hard, also make the case for a front locker first. I also see a lot more failed front diffs in utes all for the same reason. Going up a hill, front wheels go up in the air, come back down, and pieces of money fall out of the diff.
So yes. i work on the principle - whatever wheels you see spin the most up in the air, they are the ones you should put a locker onto. See a wheel spinnin? lock it up!
Just about to fit one to my 2015 Pajero. IFS like u said will make huge difference
Outstanding work Jocko.
Love this comparison great job jockko
Love how every single person but one said rear locker going against what jocko found
I feel like it’s just what different people want. Even Graham said with a good Nissan LSD you can get a front one but he likes rear better. But jock also does more rocky stuff where a front would be better
You also notice that their cars are heavier than his hilux
Yup.....Funny how perception vs reality(per jocko's testing) never aligns
Personally I would do front locker just to pull that front through and over stuff vs trying to push it through which never seems to work well. Having front locking hubs allows you to adjust accordingly to keep the turn radius at least for the mechanical locker set ups.
In North American you will find usually Front first for climbing.. Its all about application.. Rear first seems to be an Australian thing.. Even MadMatt4WD did the same test and found, to his surprise, the "front only" more efficient then rear only..
@@jefftenhave8038 also found it alot safer due to the lean the rear can cause
Nice work Jock, comprehensive overview. Legend.
The knowlage this group supplies is unreal and soo helpful
For a street/trail rig, I really like the combo of an aggressive limited slip e.g. worm gear type TrueTrack for the rear and an air locker for the front. Helps keep costs down while still being capable and streetable. I'm with Graham - auto lockers are just not my thing anymore. Been there, done that.
I've heard of this setup elsewhere, too. Why not torsen in the front,
why not auto lockers
@@annabanna666 They are no good on hard and paved roads.
@@BuildingByFaith For one thing, it isn't selectable on and off. It's easy to be in a situation where you need to turn and can't with the front locked.
Thanks for the information Jocko. Great presentation. Good to hear the other guys opinions too.
You've helped me make my decision on where (front or rear) and what type of locker. Thanks mate!!
Having an IFS wagon with a good LSD in the rear I love my front auto locker, In my old Zook however the rear locker worked wonders especially with the short wheel base and the tendency to lift the front wheels when climbing, not to mention the on the spot donuts!!!
Hands down the best video on lockers I have ever found! Thank you man!
Great video. I have the factory front and back elocks on my Jeep Rubicon, but have always just used both. Now I want to do some experimenting and try one set against the other to see how they compare. This was an excellent idea for a video.
This video is amazing, it’s exactly what I’ve been looking for, and I appreciate that you considered IFS vehicles
Awesome vid jocko I love how in depth your are about the mechanics of 4wds and can give Shauno a run for his money lol
I find this stuff with Jock so much more informative Thanks buddy. I always learn something from you.
Thanks for the very informative rundown of front/rear lockers Jocko. Now I know what I need. Greetings from Papua New Guinea mate! Keep those wonderful content flowing, we love em to pieces. Stay Safe! Cheers!
My 2010 mn glx triton came from the factory with a rear air locker. It’s been a help on a few occasions now, so I’d probably have air locker in at least the rear of another 4wd when I get one, if the budget stretches I’ll have front too
My personal perfect setup: LSD in the rear and ARB airlocker in the front. This will get you everywhere...
I am in process of doing a very similar setup
I’ve got the same set up in my patrol shimmed the lsd so it’s tight as and pro locker in the front
@@trueaussie3097 I went for a torsen lsd in the rear no maintenence required or special oils and transfers power better then a clutch style lsd and am prepping my front axle for a detroit locker
Me too. My 3.1D Trooper(old but gold) has Lokka front locker(cheapest in UK) added to stock rear LSD, part time 4WD means I can shift it on/off as required. Top job. Still has FW hubs too, so dragging nothing along.
I'll be running spartan in the rear and an arb up front!
"Jocko's Toolbox" should be a regular segment. Honestly Jocko the enthusiasm you show when you are explaining the technical aspects of things is amazing! I have a 2011 Amarok equipped with a factory electric rear locker, if I was looking towards getting a front locker down the track, would it be worth converting the rear to an air locker if I was going to put an air locker(including compressor and all other needed bits) in the front? Can E locker rear and Air locker front work together or would it be a smarter option to have them both the same? Cheers
I have a front weldy in mine and it does so much better then all open!! nice video guys!
Best video ever!! Thank you on explaining everything there is to know on the front and rear lockers.
detroit style auto locker is the way to go, i have them front and rear and they're totally unnoticeable and always locked, i do have a selectable 2 and 4 wheel drive, separate from the high low, rear disconnect and sticky tires.
Thanks jock, great video. I'm currently building my daily driver into a weapon, very informative. Gave me some food for thought.
I've been toying with ideas, one is an auto lokka in the back, and either an air or elokka in the front, because i want to be able to turn off the front for steering
Jocko is bringing something excellent to this channel. Hope to have more videos like this.
Hi jock, thanks you have talked me in getting a locker in the back as l don't do the large rock climbing but some rough steep country, cheers.
Excellent topic and very well presented by Jocko and co. Hope you discuss about suspensions and tire sizes too.
I am first time watcher and if your still around i hope cause its been 2 years since this video i want to tell you thank you so much! I have been wanting to find out about the different locking situations and you did it great and humbly with no cockyness and i truly preciate that buddy.
I have two 4x4s. Both from factory have limited slip rears and full time lock in front. Both are old 4x4s but great trucks.
So when i fill like i dont need both lockers in front i just put them back in 2x4 and then i have limited slip rear and single tire pull front only difference in mine and yalls is yall have a real nice fancy switch that would be so convenient and i have a manual shifter i have to pull but it works.
One of mine is a w 1994 Dodge Ram 2500 5.2 motor 5 speed manual looks brand new. Single cab.
The other 1988 GMC ext cab K2500 with 1992 Chevy Tahoe 350 motor and a 4 speed Chevy Bulldog manual transmission. Great trucks. 88 dont look pretty but drive train is great. But it takes 40 acres to turn it around thats the only fall back with it.
But i realy preciate your help but also not just talk but you did a out on trail illustration and so we cant ask for anything more than that. By what you showed and taught me i believe im good but i am always eager to learn and i sure got a whole lot to learn.
Take care buddy and thanks again!
I'm currently building up a 80 series and I've installed a auto Lokka in the rear and an Elocker in the front, I've also fitted a part-time kit in the transfer case and installed free wheel hubs in the front.
Good one Jacko 👍 For my 80, I'm planning to put a front locker first. With the type of driving I do, if I only fit a rear locker, this can increase more front wheel lifts and potentially cause a flip (torque front wheel lifts) as it pushes the vehicle up obstacles. Front lockers prevents this as it pulls the vehicle up and over obstacles. But will eventually fit both.
That's a very good point, thank you. You alone helped me decide which to do 1st
Keep in mind that you will lose steering ability with a front selectable lock. Especially so when weight has transferred onto front axle, ie driving down a rutted step. Front locker great at holding back vehicle on steep, loose downhills, at the expensive of steering.
When going up hill the weight shifts to the back rear locker will do more good more often. I would get rear first then front.
I've seen loads of videos on diffs, a million diagrams, this was one of the best demos I've seen,
this is so helpful, understanding how diff. lock works
Nice one, good fair assessment
I went for a rear e-locker in the mighty Maximus. Purely and simply because I didn't know where I could reasonably fit an air compressor in the setup that I had. It has evolved slightly since then, but I'm sticking with the e-locker, and I'm considering putting one up front as well.
Jocko, I have the same model Hilux as yours and I put an air locker in mine 12 months ago and can't be happier. I found the LSD to be very tight and having the front locker in I get to most places I need to go.
This just gave me the info I need to pick the locker for my 4wd, cheers blokes 🤙
Very good info all the better for the demo!
Many thanks for doing the video.
I love this channel guys....you are going to grow to a bigger platform and take 4wd to the next level people....🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯
Great presentation, Jocko.
Rocket. Been missing the right boot monster, Would be great to see him back on the track with Shawn and Gram.
Got an TD5 and I put ann Ashcroft ATB Limited SLip Differential in both axels. It´s more of an overlander and the fact that it always provides best traction even on dirt roads was important for me. Plus the TD5 got a traction control, so even when one wheel should spin it will be stopped and the wheel with traction gets some force. Very happy with that setup, it´s simple, it works and it holds up.
When are we going to see Rocket Rod again?
Love the video. I would probably go with read and air locker first. I have a 4WD van that is already a beast but sometimes I do get stuck a bit.
So, a locker would be awesome.
Very comprehensive info indeed-good job man.
Twin ARB Air Locked in my Discovery 4 💪🏼 ideal to have both lockers in action, plus having one of the better selectable variable terrain response traction control systems is a bonus.
Great video, Jocko really knows his stuff, good to see these more in depth explanation and technical videos too 👍🏻 keep up the goodness
🏴🇬🇧🏴
Thanks mate! Your disco sounds very capable
@@jocko4wd281 one day I’ll ship it down under and see what it’ll do on some proper tough stuff 🤞🏻
Excellent presentation. Thank you
It's certainly a "depends on your driving" type of answer. Rock crawling, a front locker comes into its own but for most people, the rear is the most useful.
I've a Discovery 2 with air lockers at both ends. The rear gets more use but having both is excellent.
Thanks Boys.... Another great Video
Thanks Jocko, great info!
Nice one Jocko, great presentation
Love it. Great advice. Put it in the rear first.
Very good informative video. Thanks joko. I put an auto lokka in first up the front and then 12months later an E lokka in the rear. Its in an older ifs hilux, and both lokkas were needed as flex is very poor. Its a little mountain goat now.. So i would strongly suggest for ifs rigs get both..
Thanks mate, helped me to understand it in no time. Ledge!!!
Considering the $ spent on mods, the budget issue is really out the window. Nobody seems to think twice about fitting a front bar but they cost twice what a locker does fitted. The price of a second air locker for example is insignificant in the grand scheme of what average Aussie spends on 4wd mods.
I have an auto locker in the front of my 4WD mainly due to budget, having said that I will be installing an air locker in the rear later this year. With regards to the auto locker in the front, it isn't an issue in the front when on the road, just unlock the hubs and the locker isn't even engaged. When in 4WD with the hubs locked, the locker is noisy but it's not something you don't get used to. If you shift out of 4WD, then the locker is not engaged any longer and there is no noise. The only disadvantage with an auto locker is you can't use 4WD without it being engaged whereas an e or an air locker can be disengaged. Steering is compromised a little with an auto locker but it isn't that bad which is the advantage of the auto locker over the other two.
Great video, awesome to hear all the recommendations, front locker in my GQ maybe shim the lsd if it gets loose
Thanks you guys!...coming from the States...You all have some nice rigs!
Coming from across the big pond, I found this to be very enlightening and educational and...love the Aussie dialog. We Jeep over here but have the same concerns about the use of lockers. Myself, my LJ Wrangler is getting ARB air lockers installed next week as I already have the compressor and tank onboard for frequent deflation refills. Passing this on to my mates here in Georgia...keep up the great work.
I can't see any reason to use a front locker without the rear engaged. Other than for test purposes.
Great video, I appreciate what you guys do. I have often wondered, can you get a rear lsd that can be locked at the press of a button, but remains a proper lsd when unlocked? Or, an in-car adjustable lsd that can be turned up to 100% lock?
Nice job Jocko!!!
great episode guys
Great video Jocko!
From BC Canada
Outstanding video! Greetings from Brazil.
Great video man! Thanks!
Good on you Jocko!
I find the argument for the front makes the most sense
I love these informative, 'real life' test vids
Jocko don’t get trapped Lad make your own channel you’re the only reason we watch anymore!
Wouldnt say trapped, hes probably absolutely loving making videos for these guys and more then likely prefers it
Great video, guys 🙂
On my Ford Maverick (european = Nissan Terrano 2) I have the original rear LSD (H233B, same as on the Patrol) which is very good, and a front Lokka locker thanks to your videos. This is a perfect and cheap combo on this front IFS 4x4 😀 👍
Great video jock they guys at back very good answered a few questions for me personally thanks mate u seen be more down to earth a blokes guy out wheeling every chance not running a production company
Nice informative video Jock! Thanks mate! well, for me the very best would be twin locked air compressor, as you make your vehicle crawl obstacles hence having less risk of damaging your rig. My request would be if you could do a video about the tire system which is used on the 6x6 mercedes focusing specially on how did they wire the air to the tires. That we be aswesome! Once again, nice vid mate!
You should also explain the difference in locker type to pick for IFS vs SA. I've noticed a front LSD or Torsen type up front for ifs it takes some of the shock load out of the CV's vs a fully locked elocker or air one.
Yeah Jock, good onya mate!!
Great video. Very informative and helpful. Thank you. 😊👍🇺🇸
I really appreciate the explanation! I thought "lockers" might be similar to positraction, or what Chevrolet called "Limited Slip Differential, but was unsure until Jocko's explanation. He a natural-born teacher!
QUESTION: You talked about AIR LOCKERS... what compressor do you that use them have onboard?
in The Shed with jock'o is awesome info and should be a regular thing. Ironjack's up cheers
This is why I love my FJ cruiser! A-Track!! + Rear locker from factory. I am surprised they did not mention offroad traction control systems.
Awesome video jocko
Thank you, that was probably the best vid on lockers I've seen. "new subscriber"...
My question is, why aren’t we seeing Jocko’s beast of a Hilux on the big trips?
He’s always in the handicap vehicles, the boys don’t want to be out driven
Because Isuzu pays the sponsorship money.
Thanks for the great video!
Great comparison of the options available.have a front auto locker in my R50 pathfinder and suits it as is a soft core 4wd. Just wondering if centre diff locks help as pathy has one.?
Both have their advantages. Just figure out what you want your vehicle to accomplish. I’ve had front and rear only until I got the other locker. Twin locked is always my end goal.
Good info Jock should be helpful to many.
Technically though an auto locker will allow one wheel to turn slower than the other around a corner not the other way around like you mentioned 👍
I enjoy your tutorials.
Live axle front and rear, rear air locker first. IFS with open diffs, rear locker first. Any vehicle with a strong rear LSD (and honestly, this is only Patrols), front locker first. My Ol’ Jackaroo had a strong rear LSD, so it got a front air locker. My current MQ Triton (GLX poverty pack) had no lockers. It got a rear first, then a front. Twin air (or “e”) lockers always ultimate. The early “Pony” videos with twin auto lockers and shit small road tyres, proved how dramatic an improvement lockers make. Really enjoying the way you present the tech stuff Jocko.
In the cars I used with e-lockers I've found they can take a while to lock in. G-wagons have front, centre and rear e-lockers but they can take ages to lock and unlock and it can be fairly jerky when they do. I'm guessing air would be a lot quicker.
A well done and fair comparison of lockers. My personal preference is rear first, unless it's IFS or like a Patrol with a solid LSD in the back.
It may be worth mentioning too that some e-lockers can temporarily unlock when you change direction e.g. you reverse a little to take another go at climbing, which can make technical driving more difficult at times. For those interested AllOffroad 4x4 Adventures TV, Filthy Motorsports and other CZcams channels do a good job of explaining it.
Thanks mate.
I originally had that in the video but decided to remove it as that refers to one particular brands design and not all e lockers do that I believe. But it’s interesting nonetheless!
Thanks for your feedback, yep filthy motorsports and Alloffroad do some great vids on this too!