🧙 Robb Stark's Resurrection and the next Red Wedding
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- čas přidán 11. 04. 2021
- Cut from Game of Thrones, the undead Catelyn Stark aka Lady Stoneheart has been an integral and fascinating part of the ASOIAF books. Her reign of terror over the Riverlands after taking over the Brotherhood Without Banners from Beric Dondarrion is just getting started with The Winds of Winter. Perhaps another Red Wedding is on the table, and a chance to reunite with her long lost son. And definitely hang a lot of Freys.
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... Completely random crackpot theory.
What if the first White Walker was a mistake by the Children of the Forest. What if Resurrection magic had been unknown to them until they saw, or heard about a human performing a similar rite? Could it be possible that the Children of the Forest attempted to do similar, with the intent on binding the one they raised to their cause - or perhaps raising one that had been supportive to their cause in the first place? Imagine their surprise, when they pray for the life to return to the fallen Man, and rather than Fire responding... Ice does - a perversion of the rite.
It turns out that too much time had passed since the fallen man's death - and the life in question had passed from the domain of Fire, and into that of Ice - and such was the birth of the first White Walker. What if Lady Stoneheart was raised at some point between the two states? If raised immediately, she would have retained much of her mind - but after three days, much of what made her human was unrecoverable. If they had waited, say... a week, or a month, or even longer - would ANY attempt at raising her make her into a White Walker, or something near to it?
Stoneheart hates ALL those that were involved in the red wedding - she hates the fact they remain alive - with no respect to the level of responsibility each one holds, she wants them ALL dead. She doesn't discriminate - if they were involved even by *proximity*, they need to go. If they had waited longer, would she have returned with a hatred of even more? Would she have blamed her family for not being there, or the Knights even from her own house, for failing in their duty? How much longer would it have taken before she simply blamed all that lives for the crime of... living, when those she cared for had passed?
What if... thats what the Walkers are? The first was raised after too much time had passed, and its hatred was strong enough that it simply blamed... everyone? If the Children were somehow excluded from their rage, it could be that they simply stepped back, and let the Walker do what it did?
Hi Chrissy, it's Tam Hutchins! It's been really long! I hope you are doing well and that your people are safe and healthy 💖
Wow .. so if sewing her father and brother’s heads back on their bodies and reanimating them is why Arya’s chapters have so much emphasis on her sewing I will be SHOOK.
Might be
…damn
Hmm. She's terrible at sewing that looks nice, but maybe she learned a basic blanket stitch. But I think she uses her other Needle, to stick various people with the pointy end.
I'm not sure how easy it is to sew bones back together, though.
Eww, imagine if Rob Zombie's off-putting head & neck area visible woundings are his neck being flaccid and his head flopping over to the side all the time 😬
A wolf headed demon returned from death to destroy the living would be unbelievably epic. And so much better then the tv shows bland night king.
And a Tragic duel between him and a resurrected Jon, and a possible reunion run in with a broken Theon Greyjoy. O my the possibilities are endless
It'd be epic indeed :D
But King Robb deserved better XC He and Jeyne/Margaery/Alys Karstark back at Winterfell, with firstborn son Eddard &the Lannisters defeated :(
Seriously. If that happens, it'll be straight up a scene right out of Dark Souls or Berserk
@@someorclad9738 yuuup
It would be really epic but it also would be very sad to see Robb become an evil monster!
Man my fan fiction from 2014 was that Rob came back with the head of a wolf, named the wolf king
Him an Jon in a way
Robb returning has been a popular fan fiction for a long time, I just decided to see if it was possible
Because Robb and Grey Wind were warg-bonded, a wolf-headed Robb could possibly work, as they are kind of the same "person"
@@bronhaller would be awesome
@@bronhaller Why should they be the "same person"? When Bran controls Hodor, he doesnt become Hodor, Hodor is still in there, terrified.
It occurs to me there's precedent regarding body preservation: Maester Aemon's body is currently preserved in a cask of rum. Maybe Walder Frey did the same to Robb's body to mock the Stark funeral customs.
I think this would be great but at the same time I don’t want Robb to suffer
a bit late for that!
Robb was legit my least favorite character. He couldn't act very well. Or maybe it was his story I didn't like. Either way. Least favorite character
@@lookItUp91 we’re talking about the boooms here brother
@@lookItUp91
Robbs acting was amazing besides the parts with his wife!
I loved Robb but him just giving in to love and risking it all just seems out of character for him.
He sacrificed THOUSANDS of soldiers on the riverrun battle to get jaime and in character he should have also killed Jaime because 1st The anger 2nd It would have been the right move to kill a lannister for a stark
@@davidryan7386 LMFAO 😂
I love this theory. If Robb was brought back, it would probably be as some kind of Frankenstein-like creation, kind of like Gregor Clegane. One has to wonder how stable he would be after being dead for such a long time...
Frankenstein! Yas!
"and how do you propose that you'll harm me or my brother jaime, you're just a dead man walking, a living corpse in shambles" the young wolf glared at the queen, his milky dead eyes getting colder the longer he stared. Colder than the wall, until they looked like balls of frozen saphire in his head, piercing cersei's soul. "your grace. Winter is coming" He managed to gargle through his decayed throat, sounding like death itself speaking. He reached out and grabbed his crown made of swords to place it upon his head, but when it touched the dead king's head, it turned to ice. "WE. are coming",his cold,leathery, rotted lips curling and pulling away from his teeth, his mummified skin being pulled back and stretched on his gaunt dead face as he spoke. Drawing his sword, mist coming off the blade as if it were made of ice on a cold winter's morning; he raises his sword, sunlight catching it, and refreacting like the sun hitting the wall on a cloudless day and in a flash that icy bright light was coming down upon cersei, aiming like to split her down the middle with one stroke. The mad queen jumped awake, fully alert in a fit of terror. Sitting in a pool of her own sweat in her bed, she glanced at the mirror to reassure herself that it was all just a dream. But there she sat, mouth agape upon seeing the mirror. Her scalp was cold and frostbitten directly in the center. Cersei touched the area, bits of frozen hair snapped into hundreds of bits, and fell off the queens head, revealing a bald spot in the shape of a scar, like those of knights who've tasted the bite of another man's steel, tho many who do seldom ever live to tell the tale.
did I capture the writing style of Lord George RR of house martin, king of the nerds and the realms of fantasy?
@@QockNobblr damn you did good I wanted to read more 😍😅
@@tamihellsing5045 honestly, it would be a fuckin roller coaster of a well set-up well thought out and kick ass deus ex-machina for rob to become the night king. Kinda like jon in the show and the books sorta becoming the defacto azor ahai reborn/ prince that was promised...until the show fucked it all up. Jons obvs still dead in the books, but george did confirm that jon snow is basically the george bittersweet ending hero, with him being the son of rhaegar and lyana and being destined to kill the night king. George has stated previously that he doesnf change his plans when ideas get leaked, cuz then its obvious they were right, and loves to leave them guessing until they read it themselves. My prediction, *if* rob becomes the nights king, and thats a big if, jon will definitely end up having to kill him. Probably in an end fight against kings landing, ala dany. Like rob's undead army massacreing innocents, to the point that dany and jon have to step in. Drogon gets downed with dany on his back, swarmed by undead. The crash killed the undead, but not dany...not fully. Crushed under the weight of her own child that she fought so hard to give life, she begs jon to kill her and put her out of her misery. Jon does it, with a heart filled with sorrow, whilst feeling like it's being ripped apart (gonna go ahead and make J+D official head canon, cuz it just makes sense. The books dany wouldnt mind sharing a throne and ruling side by side with a non-mad targaryen. In fact it'd make it wayy more fucking emotional if she was pregnant during the battle, but not like 6+ months, early enough that should could feasibly ride a dragon. Reason why: cuz that mcguffin witch's mcguffin curse was literally meant to be broken, and jon seems to be...gifted enough to make it a reality lol). Jon plunges longclaw into dany's heart, all the way to the hilt, transitioning from holding the sword to holding his now deceased beloved. That thing, assaulting the gates... It isn't rob anymore, and it killed the only woman he's loved besides ygritte. A look of silent, burning, rage, like molten steel overclouds jon's eyes (his eyes are literally steel colored in the books). His eyes, seeming to be rising in climbing in heat by the looks of it. At first looking like lightly charred steel fresh from being tempered in a smiths forge. The longer he holds dany, the hotter the color of his eyes become; grey, black yellow, orange, red, blue, white, then to a searing of vibrant violet. In his raging eyes exists only violence now. They burn, and begin to visibly emit small whisps of steam. His eyes began to singe parts of his skin, jon looked to the sky and screamed not just in pain but in rageful anguish. His eyes ceased to singe his skin. They, startled instead, to crackle. Like violet-hot lightning in bottle, the small cracks coming off of his eyes sounding like a raging crackling fire. Standing up, jon withdrew his sword from his beloved. Drawing his sword, it engulfs in flames, before enveloping jon. He could feel his skin cry out in pain, but he did not care. One thing was on jon's mind, killing the night king. Jon takes a step, the fire that has enveloped him, begins to subside, being contained to his hair, beard and clothes, eyes still letting off sparks of violet lightning. The flames of the sword and on jon growing hotter and hotter, until both are like white fire. The fire burnt off all of his actual hair, leaving behind charred sinders on the ground as he walked towards the dead king. Tho his hair burnt off, strangely the fire was not subsiding, instead replacing his actual hair, but not burning him only reddening his skin, as if the north raised prince were merely sunscorched. As jon walked, rhaegal flying over his head, he sees robs decayed corpse and the monster it has become. "face me, rob. You will pay for your crimes here today" jon said, pointing the flaming longclaw at rob. "bastards can't harm kings jon." The corpse king gurgled in that decaying, leathery, fleshy voice of his. "MY NAME IS JAHAERYS TARGARYEN, THIRD OF MY NAME, AND I WILL NOT LET YOU SLAUGHTER ANYMORE PEOPLE.". "Very well." the corpse king seemed to chuckle, like a raven with it's throat torn out croaking for more corn. The nights king raised his hands, and all of the dead within and without kings landing began to rise once more. From crypts, graves, buriald, the streets, the gutters even blackwater bay. Then a great and terrible roar boomed out from behind jon, as drogon rose once more, with ice of cold blue fire. Drogon, flew over to the night king before jon could reach him, "lets see if the dragon prince can fly" croaked the corpse king once more. The dead dragon took for the skies, master in tow. Jon immediately mounted rhaegal, and took off after the night king. The two clashed in skies, arya could see. But she forced herself to look towards her goal, the red keep. All of the dead, now noticing arya's existence, she broke off into a full sprint, dodging, blocking and parrying attacks whilst dashing past numerous amounts of undead. She knew she could dodge, block and parry all of their attacks if need be. However in the skies, jon and rob continued to clash, as if they were holding a tourney in the sky. Truly a dance of dragons and a feast for crows...no, no. It was a song of ice and fire as they clashed in the sky, until Jon unseated the dead king in a stroke of luck. Rob began plummeting to the earth, and rhaegal seized the moment of his dead brothers confusion to engulf him in dragonfire,destroying the dead dragon. As soon as it had been over, rhaegal went into a steep dive to resch the ground faster, before pulling up last minute and landing. Jon jumped off of rhaegal, long claw still burning hotter in his hand than his own hatred for this monster. The dead wolf stood up "and so it begins" croaked the corpse. "no, now it ends" said jon, the words felt like hot coal rolling off his tongue as he spoke, with such a certain rage and contempt filling his voice. Ser jaime, began climbing the steps of the tower of the hand, frantically, searching for his beloved cersei. Fighting off undead all the way up. When he reached near the door he heard cersei sobbing, and a handful of undead gnashing their blades into the door, like to render it to splinters. Ser jaime, slew them just as easily as the rest of the dead. " *the dead arent very good at fighting" he thought to himself. He pounded on the door. "CERSEI! ITS ME, WE NEED TO GET OUT OF HERE!". Cersei immediately swung open the door, upon hearing her brothers familiar voice. Arya's needle met the mad queen's throat, its insides and the other part of its outside and it delicatley slid into her throat. "the north remembers, your grace" said arya, pulling off the mask to reveal her own face. The mad queen died, gurgling and choking on her own blood. The two kings clash, perfectly matched in strength. They both lose their swords, as they grapple. The corpse king seemingly gaining the upperhand pummeling jon as he lay on the ground. Until join instinctively cried out the phrase "DRACARYS". Immediately rhaegal belted fire on them, the dragonfire began melting away the night king's frosted flesh, until rhaegal ceased, and jon frantically grabbed both his and rob's old sword, one coldee than the iciest winter and the other, hotter than the sun. With both arms he drove the two swords through and through rob, making him burst into thousands of bits of ice and whisps of steam, along with the rest of the dead. "its over" jon thought to himself. But, he had not yet finished the mission, the mad queen is still like to kill him, especially now that the dead are gone. Who knows what tricks she hids? Jon rushed the red keep, bursting into the throne room, seeing arya sitting upon the iron throne, ser jaim's skinless head, and cersei's head mounted on swords either side of arya on the iron throne. "what do we do now?" asked jon. "someone has to rule the seven kingdoms. it has to be you. You're the rightful heir, always have been." arya said. "I don't want to be king. I just want her back" jon's eyes began to well with tears. Longclaw ceased to be in flames as the flames on jon's own head began to die out as well. "I JUST WANT HER BACK" Jon said, falling to his knees and bursting into a fit of sobbing. He felt as if his whole world, his whole purpose in life was gone now. He isn't the prince who was promised anymore. He's just jon snow again now, known as ned stark's nephew/adopted son. "I'm not fit to be king" he said. "bran will do a better job than me, he's always been wiser than me, despite being half my age. He will be a good king. Not me. I don't know what to do now. I suppose I might go north past the wall...what remains of it, to live out the rest of my days with the wildlings". (ten years pass). "..and thats how I defeated the night king" jon told naeddard, named in honor of his uncle neddard stark. "right. Now off to sleep, no more stories tonight" he said. "daddy, who is danaerys?" little ned asked. "she was... A someone very close to me, she died in the fight against the night king...I..loved her, before I met your mother" jon admitted. "I miss mommy " said little ned. "as do I, but she gave her life so that you could come into this world. Now get some sleeep before you make her spirit stir from wherever she is" jon said. In the crypts of kings landing, danaerys targaryen's tomb sat, though something began to stir inside the tomb. Inside, the dead queens body saw no signs of decay. Her feet and legs began to seemingly mend, her pale dead skin showing the damage beneath plain as day, slowly reversing, though her flesh staying cold and dead. Then Danaery's eyes snapped open with eyes like blue saphire, and the night's queen pushed off her tomb's lid and and arose to her feet. For not even death will stop her from being with her beloved, jon snow. For nothing is so powerful as a song of ice and fire.
@@tamihellsing5045 I did my best on the second one not to make it cringe lol, yoir welcome btw
A huge part of me wants Robb to come back as a Wolfman hybrid. It would be a huge change up and a seriously interesting aspect to the story itself.
I never thought about Lady Stoneheart bring Rob back. I guess I just thought he was to long dead.
It's not possible. You need to be fast after the death, otherwise not much will come back. They even explain this in the book :)
@@umwha I just think that all the realistic theories have already been covered when the show was still a hit. Now youre only left with people who believe A Dream of Spring will ever be released and people who liked the show, so, obviously we theorize in crazy ways :D
Anyway his head could be on Robert Strong’s body way out there shot but maybe
@@umwha 6 months is more than enough to reduce somebody to bones. Plus I’m sure he got dumped in the river which speeds up decomp even faster. I just can’t see much being left of Rob
Robb is toast. His head is gone. Game over.
I'm not sure LSH is going to die. I think she might slink off deep into a forest and exist for decades. Once in a while, hunters, soldiers, and travelers will see her and tell tales. She'll become a legend.
Having her haunt the woods forever would be terrifying. Do. Not. Visit. Those. Woods.
this theory of resurrecting Robb Stark is very interesting, in the house of the immortals Dany saw a king at a banquet, with a wolf's head, and he was dying and not dead, maybe you are right.
He’s head was cut off no he’s dead for good
@@billybobsac4421 He will be like Gregor Clegane
@@artysarryn9111 Gregor clegane didn’t have his head cut off so no and he was saved by science not magic
@@billybobsac4421 you just watched the series, the book is different. In the book he was beheaded and his head was sent to dorne, Qyburn practices magic in the books, and the chapter that has Kevin Lannister’s point of view everyone says that "Robert Strong" (the mountain) doesn’t eat, breathe or sleep, and has no head behind the gap in his armor helmet.
@@artysarryn9111 I have read the entire book series 5 Time,it’s not gregors head
I think that she will give Jon the kiss not Robb. It's just the kind of retribution that GRRM writes about. She was horrible to Jon in life, so she will give him life and finally be a "mother" to him. She knows that Robb named Jon his heir as they think that Bran and Rickon are dead.
Hmm. Maybe Jon’s body will be preserved by the cold of the wall?
@@MikeWasHere_1 it will have to be soon because if he wargs into Ghost he might be gone forever
I think it's the opposite it's the fact that he wargs into Ghost that means he can be dead for a while but come back without the drawbacks of having been dead just a bit wolfie!
Completely agree with you Mel seems most likely but I really hope it's Stoneheart because of the relationship between her and John in life. There would be something poetic about Catlyn giving John life.
Cat doesn't seem to be heading towards the wall at all and she's shown no interest in going there and seeing Jon.
If you think about it, Dany’s vision could also be the red wedding 2.0 based on your theory. The guests don’t need to be the Stark forces, they can be the Lannister/Frey’s, and that’s why Robb is sitting above them all with his leg of lamb.
This is actually a super interesting idea. I always thought her vision was a bit off from the actual red wedding
- the whole lady stoneheart thing is kind of insane. So much of the magic in the show is subtle but then you have a legit zombie queen terrorizing the lands. It would of been crazy to see them try to do that story in the show.
You know what…that’s why the show didn’t do Lady Stoneheart. The show was going in on the WW and wights so they didn’t need a Cat zombie.
I agree. Shame as it was to cut Lady Stoneheart out, I do see why they did it. It would have telegraphed Jon's resurrection too much, and it would also have been pretty crazy to actually watch play out.
I think one of the most interesting parts of this is that if Robb returns as this undead monster completely merged with Grey Wind, Jon (after his own resurrection) would likely be able to feel his presence. The Stark siblings seem to share a bond through their Direwolves and skinchanging abilities. If they're close enough, the wolves can sense each other's presence. For example, Jon was able to briefly glimpse Shaggy Dog hunting a unicorn through Ghost's connection to him (all the way from Castle Black to Skagos). Given that Robb's entire consciousness would now be merged with Grey Wind (since he warged into Grey Wind upon death), Jon would feel him. I can just imagine what sort of horrific dream that would be. Bran, Rickon and Arya would all sense him too. Arya might even see him, since Nymeria and Grey Wind (Robb) would be close to each other.
I know your comment is super old, but I thought that specific dream of Jon's came because of Bran talking to him, and at the time Rickon was not in Skagos, so he kind of saw a glimpse of the future, by the hand of Bran.
great theory! One is also reminded of one of Melissandre's flame visions--"a boy with the head of a wolf, threw his head back and howled..."
We assume it is a metaphorical Bran she sees--but it could be a literal Rob/Grey wind....
I think it would be amazing for Euron to sense Robb's return, and regard him as a rival to being harbinger of the end times. There's evidence that Euron is a skinchanger, and that Shade of the Evening is a sort of inverted Weirwood Paste, so it would likely amplify his abilities when he takes it. So he may sense Robb in his dreams just like Jon can sense the other Direwolves through Ghost.
Also, this resurrected Robb would likely be a creature so filled with animalistic rage, hatred, and a burning desire to kill and feed, that it may willingly join the Others. There's a theory I believe, that the Others use an advanced form of skinchanging to resurrect the dead. If that's true, than Robb could detect their attempt to seize his corpse, and embrace it.
I desperately want Lady Stoneheart to bring Jon back, it would parallel what Dondarrion did for her and she’d die the true death finally released from her guilt.
If I 'm' it wrong, they re is a theory about a Testament or a document making Jon Snow the legitime heir of Rob and Lady Stoneheart is in the search of this document.
This would imo be the best way for Jon to return. Catelyn after learning about his true parentage and maybe the azor ahai prophecy redeems herself by bringing him back, the child she always hated. Also the document proclaiming Jon as Robbs heir is still with maege mormont, and Catelyn is fully aware of it and its contents. The only problem is shes in the riverlands which is like 1000 miles from the wall :( maybe she could travel there but she wouldnt even know hes dead and if she did it would take probably half the book just getting there.
If Jon is dead in the books, which is still unknown
@@umwha And Mance was burned alive. I don't think Jon died, but rather a glamoured Tormund
@@svilendenchev9984 He is both dead, yet still alive. He is in Ghost now, we didn’t get all that info about Varymir Six Skins and a wargs second life in the prologue for nothing.
Great analysis! I can't believe I have never made the connection that Robb's crown went from Ryman Frey's possession to Stoneheart's. Fantastic!
It's one of those things that can be easy to miss because Brienne doesn't know it's Robb's crown, and doesn't understand the significance of where it went post Red Wedding. Clever George.
Very clever. I guess the only reasonable thing to do is read the series again.
I believe that George R.R.Martin well write the most epic death scene for Walder Frey and his family.
It is GRRM we are talking about even if he kills everyone think about innocent Freys. We see good Freys like Jaime's cousin or Robb's squire. It might be tragic and satisfying.
Moreover, considering the number of Frey there are, they might die in a civil war
Sorry to break it to you, but GRRM made too many promises that he broke about WoW. Now, he's working on too many projects. 11 years, promises broke and nothing.
Robb coming back as a being like Coldhands would make me so happy.
That would be a hell of a twist if the Night's King in the books ends up being a resurrected monster version of Robb Stark. Catelyn/LSH has pale white skin and blue eyes as well, right?
Wow, Red Wedding 2.0. sounds so cool! I’m shocked to see Dany’s vision in a new light.
,
., u
Dude!!! There haven’t been many new ideas come out of the fandom that could actually happen in the story and not just something fun to speculate on and talk about but this makes so much sense from a characters perspective. I mean a lot of us thought Robb would be the hero of the story after Ned died which made his death hit home so hard but it was be just amazing story telling if somehow he came back and was the leader of the white walkers or something. I’m all for this theory lol
I feel like we're over looking the potential of robb returning with the wolf head still attached. Throughout the book and show there were often tall tales of robb turning into a ravenous wolf in battle, wouldn't it be something if he were brought back to life fully mad, and beating the head of a vicious dyre wolf.
I mean if he warged into his wolf before dying then doesn't that mean his consciousness would be saved in greywinds head
I’d love it if the Freys’ reason for killing Robb and his men is the reason most of them die.
It would be awesome if somehow jingle bells came back to haunt Lady Stoneheart. Like Brienne having a pair of jingle bells on her as she confronts Stoneheart.
"Ryman's lady friend" LOL
Was that the “Queen of Whores”? It’s been a while since my last reading
Yeah, I just didn't want to say it
@@JoeMagician smart move. I’m laughing because I imagined The Dude besieging Riverrun
Always appreciate a callback to The Princess Bride.
I get the feeling that it's going to be Lady Stoneheart, and not Arya Stark who kills Walder Frey in the books.
And his death is going to be grizzly 😬
Grey Winds Head.
Rob Starks Body.
The Dread Wolf-King.
That’s great! You’re awesome in the way that 10 years after the last book you’re still able to come up with new mindboggling intriguing theories. It’s hard to read new theories these days which are not 1000% tinfoil. This sounds crazy, but at the same time isn’t so crazy at all.
However, Jon could have dreamt of Robb, simply because he had a close relationship and his death was fresh on his mind.
"I shall listen for your call in whatever realm of death holds me, and come I shall, no matter what the laws of life and death forbid. At the end I will be there. For the final battle. For the Wolftime."
Leman Russ, the Wolf King. Might be relevant.
Wonder if grrm is a warhammer gamer
GRRM is a gardener. He sows seeds, some may grow, others wither...I doubt I shall still be alive to find out how his garden grows.
I think that if Robb comes back, he'll have Grey Wind's head. It's sewn on, after all, and his consciousness is in there.
💯 that’s the only way I can see it working.
I like this idea.
Remember that quote Robb had in the bran chapter of AGOT about being haunted by that dungeon under the dreadfort where they skin their enemies when he first met roose?
I always had this creepy feeling that that was foreshadowing robbs remains being taken north with roose and ending up in that very room. I could see roose asking Walder for them. Great video!!
I hate that you convinced me that Robb is the leading candidate for being the book Night King...and damn George may have some Ragnarokesque things planned..brother vs brother (and both as wolfmen) wow man, just wow.
In the book there is no night king, this was a change purely for TV. GRRM wanted a faceless evil, like global warming, not an evil king, but for TV it's just easier and more fun to watch.
@@olivertoth4122 dude I know. I'm saying if George wanted a figure to lead the Others a resurrected Robb may just work as per Joe Magician's theory here
@@alanthompson2753 Exactly, but the reason that I pointed this out is: the white walkers have no leaders and shouldn't have, because this would give the evil a face and that contradicts what George said about what he wants them to be.
@@olivertoth4122 I agree with your point, but technically Robb is faceless 🤣, which is also a nice tie in to the many faced God
@@alanthompson2753 Yeah, usually beheading also kinda takes your face :D I'm actually still on team Jaime is Azor Ahai, so I also have my crazy theory going for me :D
I like the idea of Catelyn trying to bring Rob back but it goes horrible. He is horrendous, showing the limits of resurrection. A fully functioning Rob does not coincide in my mind with George criticizing Tolkien's Gandalf revival
Agreed, whatever happens it will be the worst version of it for effect on the audience. You all want Robb Stark back? Okay, he's a horror movie monster now.
Love the new video! I had never thought about this - definitely was sitting on the assumption that Catelyn can't have Robb back & so the effort is going into making sure everyone who betrayed him is dead. The idea of undead Robb is terrifying. He has been dead for months by the end of ADWD & Catelyn after 3 days was bad enough. Either way, the Red Wedding 2.0 is shaping up to be one of the more horrific events in TWOW. George loves to give us what we want. Freys dead? Robb back? And reunited with Jon? Here, have it - and then he makes you regret what you asked for by dialling it up to 11. I am both excited & terrified to see how far he takes this one.
This video was an awesome ride - already looking forward to getting into this topic more in the stream on Saturday! :)
Exactly, a monkey's paw situation. Sure readers, I'll give you what you want. What's that phrase? When the gods seek to punish us, they grant our wishes.
This was a great one, Joe! At first I was totally unconvinced, but by the end you had me thinking! I can't wait to see what TWoW has in store!
Exactly how I felt!
Is winds of winter the story after season 8 of got.?
@@shaunpaulsen7960 More like the real story INSTEAD of Season 5 onwards.
Me, coming here after AltShiftX theory of Rob dying twice (with only a smidgen of hope): Aweyeaaaah. Gimme the good stuff.
Oh man oh man this was great. A theory ive never heard before too. Might be my favorite behind the bastard pups of brandon stark too. 10\10
There's just no way that dude didn't have kids
@@dlm9090 right?!? And the first chapter of the series makes more sense when you have Waymar as a stark bastard.
@@bensonrussell7232 Okay that's interesting... but, wouldn't he fit their bill then? The Others want a Stark, right? That said, I can see Waymar as Brandon's child. He was arrogant and kind of a dick, sure, but he was fearless in death. He died a knight.
@@dlm9090 true if they only want a Stark then hes fits the bill. I tend to think it isnt just a stark they want but Jon himself and if that's the case then that little game they played with Waymar seems like they were testing him to see if he was Jon. Just a theory though! He deff died a badass knight no one can take that from him
Also the story of the Night's King says a woman was his downfall, just like a woman was Robb's downfall. I'm surprised you didn't point this out.
This was so good!!! Makes me want to do another re-read for the X # of times. I keep hoping that each time I finish we’ll have the new book. Thank you for getting us through the long nights.
Valar Rereadis as a wise man says
I think the real problem is that Robb died twice, once as a man and again as a wolf
Same, graywind was not a skinchanger, robb did moved on, his body is not his body anymore.
That gives credit though to Ghost being special just as much if nor even more then Jon. If ghost is a skinchanger, Jon could jump from ghost back to his own body probably.....
Agree, but that does not mean stoneheart knows or would not try eitherway
If Clegane's head was sent to Dorne, Could Rob Stark's head be on Sir Robert Strong? Does it say anywhere in the text that Rob's head was not sent to Kingslanding? Think of Stoneheart meeting Ser Robert Strong, removing his helm only to find Rob Stark's head on Clegane's body.
Personally I don't think that was actually Clegane's head, that instead it was the head of a dwarf brought to Cersei for her Tyrion hunt. Ole Gregor still has his head IMO.
I never considered a dwarfs head. That makes a lot is sense considering some of them might be quite large, like the mountain that rides. You never cease to amaze me. Keep making great videos for us. We greatly appreciate it!!!
"Black blood" could be tar, so Ned's head or Rob's.
Excellent video! I can't wait to read what GRRM does with the Lady Stoneheart storyline!
ive watched this video upwards of 10 times and i keep coming back to it. Fantastic theory bordering on head cannon if we never get the other books. just love it.
The King in the North will rise again!
One problem I'm having regarding the resurrection and/or last kiss.
Nobody seems to die, when they resurrect quickly after the person died, but Catelyn could only be resurrected by Beric dying, which makes this sort of a "Only death pays for life" trade and not the last kiss to be fair.
I could have sworn that there is mention of a man with a wolf's head wandering the forests and killing Freys.
It's mentioned as a rumor,
But I believe it was brought up more than once.
Fascinating. I have never heard anyone come up with anything really related to this idea before. And you have backed it up with a lot of support from the books that would allow this to happen.
If Walder Frey is keeping Robb's head, it would be more likely that he would have it packed in salt. The tar slows decay in outdoor situations, but I would guess Walter would want to have a head that was easy to display in his solar. Tar is messy and sticky, salt would create a mummified head Walder could pull out to admire. The mummified head would hold its features better than tar.
Honey could be another option, and in RL it was poured into coffins to preserve corpses.
Anyone who can still put videos like this together after Season 8, you're hard core.
Great video!!! Love both yours and Chrissy’s voices. Oh god, the thought of Robb being resurrected is absolutely horrifying. I don’t think it will happen, but it is a really fun thought. I feel like LSH will give her last kiss to one of her other children or even Jon.
I love the imagery though and thought of Robb as a final enemy that Jon must duel. Would be tragic all around. Also you do bring up interesting and plausible points that Robb could return. It seemed so unfathomable to me but ... I can see it now.
One thought I got while watching this video was Ser Robert Strong, a man brought back to life through cruel means and possibly has another head sown onto his body. Frankenstein’s monster. Perhaps that is another hint toward this.
That would be a song of Ice and fire. A fire Wight leading army of ice zombies.
One thing though, for Rob to lead the others, his body has to reach beyond wall. That logistics part is very tricky. Something has to happen at the very beginning of twow.
You know what would be epic, imagine the others able to march down to riverrun reviving the dead, when they see robb stark’s body as a trophy with the wolf’s head and revive him
Lady Stoneheart gives me the shudders and listening to your very well done delivery on this theory (never heard of/ considered this very interesting!) I have serious heebie jeebies. Talk about horror. Robb has been dead for presumably a few months, maybe years now? But that would be a moment to read! I like it.
That gold skull/zhorse arik quote was one hell of a pull
I had an idea years ago that the white walkers would breach the north and the armies of the living would meet them and the twins becomes surrounded stuck in the middle, so Walder gets to feel the fear of what he is witnessing. Robb with Greywinds sewn head rises again and kills Walder.
I want to see Rob reanimated by the Night King and fight against the "Good Guys"
At the beginning I thought no way this could happen but this was a fantastic video. Even if this doesn't come true you've done a great job. God these books are just incredible.
This is the first I've heard of this theory. While it is sad I love it. It will even be more heartbreaking if we get something like a Jon vs Robb fight.
I had never thought of Rob being the King of Night oh my. Now IVe got to read again thanks Joe 😛
Well, because in the book there is no night king :)
The Nights King and the Night King are two different people and nowhere related.
Another thing to note is that Robb Stark has been stated by GRRM as being heavily inspired by Edward IV of England, the man that won the war of the roses which 'A Game of Thrones' is primarily inspired by. In history Edward IV would be betrayed by his brother and closest advisor for his choice in marriage, being forced to hide and flee, before organizing an invasion that would reclaim the throne that was taken from him. If Robb where to be revived as the Night King it would also not only make sense thematically, but it would give the threat of the 'Night King' Robb a clear motive, as perhaps the person most wronged by those south of the wall, and power as a being closely connected to the white walkers and other old magic of the first men through his stark ancestry while also being remembered as the man, who in life, never lost a battle.
Maaaan this is fresh. Great work Joe, I’m hyped for a Robb and Grey Wind return as one flesh.
There’s always talk about the names of the dire wolves spelling the fate of the Stark children. I’ve always found Grey Wind the hardest to fit to a fate.
Will he be the Grey Wind of Winter? Not dark, not light and good, but some sort of Grey force in between, the goodness of Robb tormented like Stoneheart by the trauma of his death and undeath, and no longer a force for good, but some kind of bad actor in the plot?
I want LSH to bring back Jon, redeeming her. Then Jon technically fulfilled his vows by giving his life to the nights watch. To then become King in the North.
Thank you so much, Joe Magician!
Bravo! Never even considered Robb returning in any form...that was 30 minutes of pure brain candy.
I watched at radio Westeros video in which Gwen pointed out how ghost notes he still has 5 living siblings he only mentions a dead sister thoughts
Great video! 👏👏👏👏👏
I wasn’t aware of this theory before you brought it up, but you totally bought me.
Freys keeping Robb’s body as a trophy is a great catch. I would see Walder displaying it at a great event such as the Lannister wedding to serve them as a cautionary tale. It actually reminds me of don Ferrante of Naples who used to mummify his dead enemies, dress them nicely and expose their bodies at dinner so people will think twice before betray him.
Finally got around to watching this - great job! 👏 👏👏 How fun to have a new theory to ponder now! Thank you!
A second red wedding that I would love to see but Freys, Boltons, and Lannisters getting killed.
Awesome video essay! It gave me goosebumps just like your "The Killing of a Ranger".
These videos have me salivating like a dire wolf for TWOW already!!
Whoa what an epiphany 🤯 This would also make Robb a song of ice and fire
So maybe the Starks are the Others and maybe "Winter is Coming" didn't start out so much as a warning but as a threat??? Also, the mechanics of the last kiss made we wonder whether giving the last kiss to a greenseer could make an Other? Like, what if Bran got powerful enough to warg people (other than Hodor) and then died and got brought back with the power of the last kiss and the ability to warg people, could he bring the dead back en masse???
There's definetly a relationship between the Starks and the Others, especially their switch from Kings of Winter to Kings in the North. A re-branding as it were.
@@JoeMagician Considering the "Starks = Blood of the Other" theory...
Undead robb stark with a wolfs head is possibly the coolest thing i can imagine
Between you giving lore and Chrissy reading the book passages this makes for such a well out together video.
Good work, I see you going places.
Awesome video! Thank you, so much for the content. 👍
The theories in this video are so good. Even if they don't end up becoming cannon in the story, what a creative list of ideas!
That's half the fun!
this was one of my favorites. wow.
Thank you! These are the best on CZcams!
Glad you think so!
What if Robb's head was brought to Kings Landing and sewn onto The Mountain's body.
Thanks for the video. I passed over the line about Robb from SH and completely missed it.
I'll never forget the day I watched The Red Wedding episode. I was so glad I found a show that was perfect in every way. I was late in the GOT game and gave it a chance and I hung on every scene. I am always the one that sees shit coming, predicts the unpredictable, and when that went down I swear I didn't breathe, and I remember the end like it was yesterday, the credits rolled up with the perfect silence. Like they knew breaths would be held in. Since then, until HOTD, I can not watch anything but reality based shows. Survivor, Big Brother, stuff like that. Nothing can ever come close to ever doing that again and my respect was won forever.
Now I'm watching Joe Magician's videos, and he's catching shit, like about Larys using the rats to see like the Wargs... and like it's unbelievable..like every part of every scene matters in some way. Each word, phrase, is so carefully worded. I mean you have to take everything in. What a great find I found in this channel. I can enjoy this now at such a higher level and just the live show after was just as good listening to the other fans interact. Like it brought up my reading game leaps and bounds. Like I read everything different.
This will have a negative effect when I go watching other shows and think the writing and production is at this level. Next I need to find other shows like at this level. I mean the way the show production must be organized is so well done. Like obviously fron the books there is so much they can do..I mean they could do three episodes every week if they wanted to like Raw wrestling...then you have to have someone in charge of editing to put all these pieces together, and you think wow, that was dumb...like the rats...I seen them everywhere and I just was them showing the conditions back then that rats were everywhere. 😂 Thank you so much this channel is great.
The dead wolf head king. Is snow. She is seeing a non dragon king. Jon fits the half dead part. He is a wolf. Like Bran & the reeds vision. Wolf in chains. Could the red wedding 2.0 be Arya showing up at the wedding instead of the Frey house feaat as in shows John is the wolf king asking for help. Jon is bigger than the north. It is the king asking Dany for help when she feels she is the rightful at this point.. what if Kat kisses Jon to save the north.. Great work.
I’m more interested to see what Stoneheart would do when she hears Jon is back at Winterfell (post-mortem) and possibly Rickon if Davos finds him. Would she make her way north and hand over Robb’s crown?
It might cause a situation similar to the First Blackfyre Rebellion, since post-resurrection Jon could be a mix of Daeron II and BloodRaven while Rickon post-Skaagos would be a mix of Bittersteel and Daemon Blackfyre!
Thank you for finding this. I like got alot.They left alot of episodes on cutting room floor.
Great video!!! Mind blown. But how unsettling? I don't want Robb to come back, he's too long gone. I can't see anything good from his resurrection but suffering and horror.
Can’t wait to hear this!
Great video, as always. The fresh take is great, too. You're the dude, homie.
🙌
I don’t know why I’m getting this video suggestion a year later, but so thankful I did. Awesome content!
I read a very long fan-fiction tale of Robb’s resurrection years ago that could have been from GRRM himself and I’ve held on to the theory that it could be possible to see Robb return in some form. Seeing all the possible evidence that could be used for it, and knowing that George regrets not using Robb more in the story gives me hope!
What if Robb will be resurrected with the wolf head still attached? Would be kinda symbolic.
Omg the princess bride cut so awesome! 👍👍
There's one big flaw in this theory that you lightly touch on: Robb no longer has a body, he has a skeleton. Also, while bringing back Robb would be Horror (that Martin likes so much), it's too manga like for me
I much more like the idea of SH finding Robb's remains, and as she cannot bring him back anymore, her heart breaks one last time
It's still a great video though and as always you bring up connections that flew past my head. And I agree, SH must have a bigger role than just killing some Freys
So I did bring that up with the Whispers example, that maybe all she can find is his head. And absolutely, this is more about this being a goal or something she wants to happen not necessarily that it will. Her failure at bringing him back after finding his corpse could be more heart breaking than her succeeding.
@@JoeMagician I wonder if there could be a scenario where Lady Stoneheart goes all the way right up to the line, and then realizes with some last vestige of Catelyn that Robb would have never wanted to become what he's going to be if she goes through with it. (Question then being what the heck is there to be done with this lingering fire wight power after that? Pass it along to someone else? Catelyn just joins Robb's funeral pyre in an echo of Dany and Drogo?)
@@JoeMagician exactly!
Yeah, only finding his head would be even worse for her. I would read that
A bag of bones means nothing.
@@mistermaestersirthomas9164 "Can I take a skull to bed with me? To give me confort in the night? Will it make me smile? Write me songs? Care for me when I'm old and sick?" - Ellaria Sand
Robb Stark could become the Night King.
I often think about what's left of A song of ice and fire, somehow It makes me believe that G. R. R Martin wants it to be released after he's dead, maybe as a way to be free from the fandom's complaints if the ending does not fulfill their expectations (maybe what happened with the TV series made him believe that people would look down on his work or maybe he's actually working as hard as it's possible to deliver something memorable even if he dies first as a way departure from the awful thing that was the Hbo's adaptation)
This is the first video of yours to popup in my lists, and I cannot fathom why. I have watched dozens of GoT lore/theory vids by this point, and this is amazingly the first time I've even heard of this theory. Love it, you have a new fan!
As for Robb, I don't know how Stoneheart would do it, but you gotta figure if Qyburn could reawaken Robert Strong surely there has to be something for Robb...but who says the power that revives Robb need be good? Oh, I can almost see a retelling of that fight where Beric blockades the door so Arya can run...except now it's Stoneheart, and she's keeping Nights King Robb away from Arya. I cannot wait for WoW.
Brilliant insight and foreshadowing Ser Josef...I never tire of the abundance of your what iffery, endlessly interesting. This One Salutes You
Well done!
Bro this thumbnail is insane, great job. Havent even started the video, just awestruck how effective that thumbnail was
Never mind A Dream of Spring, the last book in the series will be called "I was a Teenage Undead Werewolf ..."