Until 2018, I didn’t even know that there were any extraordinary forms of the Mass in use. Then I was invited by a fellow fan of Church Militant to attend a Tridentine Mass (called “Traditional Latin Mass” in my diocese) at a parish about 20 miles from my home. It was so beautiful that I cried throughout - I had to restrain myself from crying out loud! ✝️😭 I ended up leaving the parish that’s one mile from my home (which has Novus Ordo Masses full of liturgical abuses) and joining that TLM parish (which also has an excellent ad Deum Novus Ordo Mass). I have no regrets.
Long after the Novus Ordo will just be an unucky footnote in the Church's history, the Tridentine Mass will still be alive. The Tridentine Mass is eternal, and making a huge comeback. Go to an average Novus ordo parish and watch: the elderly and the babyboomer generation attend. These parishes will disappear within 10 to 15 years. Go to a Tridentine Mass and see the young families. The future is traditional.
The boomers would suppress the Mass of the Ages until their last breathe. The Church will triumph and return to tradition. However, much harm have already been done, and it would take very long, probably more than a hundred years to recover from them… But we must encounter death in order to be raised from the dead and become more glorious than ever. Maybe our Lord allowed such oppression in these five decades, so that the Tridentine Mass will be even more treasured when it makes its comeback; for we have seen how precious yet fragile it is through these tribulations.
@@larryjohnwong The Church never left tradition. Those that adhere to Vatican II simply left the Church. The Catholic Church is the same as it always was. This cannot be changed by the actions of men. The remnant exists as prophecy foretold, and through those people the Church has not fallen. The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass, and bears striking similarities to how things are set up in a Freemason lodge.
@@ClergetMusic V2 isn't just influenced by Freemasonry. IT IS FREEMASONRY. It's Satanic. Here's how blatantly obvious it is. Almost all of the same changes were made to the Mass in the protestant reformation and V2. One, "Catholics" clearly call out has heretical, while on the other they think is perfectly fine. "Catholics" tend not to care about the truth or blatant heresy so long as a Freemason is telling them it's fine. They don't look into anything for themselves and allow themselves to be blindly taken where ever a heretic in a costume says. No, I'm not going to explain it to you. Just look up... "Why the New Mass and New Rite of Ordination are Invalid" here on CZcams.
@@audioelitist3677 you don’t really have to explain much: I’m familiar with this topic to a decent degree. Also, everything that changed with the Mass ( ie the new options given) were all condemned by Pius VI in Auctorem Fidei.
As a teenager in Ireland (I was born in 1968) I was very interested in the 'Liturgical Movement' and had begun to hope for a new approach to the celebration of the Tridentine Mass. That was to have the low Mass in the Tridentine rite said in the language of the people in all parts of the world but that any High Mass ('Missa Solemnis') would be sung in Latin. Such an arrangement would, I believe, have pleased everybody other than the modernists and freemasons in Rome and elsewhere who wanted to "open the Church to the modern world." The implementation of that policy had the disastrous consequences that we have had to simply like it or lump it...
@@jayjaykay111 For the bread to become Christ, the Mass has to be valid. That means there has to be a validly ordained priest saying all the necessary prayers. If either of these elements isn't there, which in the Novus Ordo, at the very least the prayers are missing, the mass cannot possibly be valid. Vatican II isn't Catholic. I'd recommend you looking into what I'm saying before you simply write me off as a heretic. Most of what I've learned is from vaticancatholic, where the Dimond brothers make an ironclad case. The video "Why the New Mass and New Rite of Ordination are Invalid" from there is excellent. You would be correct to say I'm outside of the Church if the Novus Ordo was valid. That just isn't the case.
The suppression of this most reverend and true form of Mass does not surprise, nor the amount of rejection it gets from the faithful. Miserere Nostri Domine, Miserere Nostri
At age 17 I asked my mother what religion I was supposed to be. At age 7 I went to the episcopalian church on my own because it was very close to where I lived and I didn't know any better. My mother told that I should be a Roman Catholic. At around age 18 a friend and I went to a Catholic Church but we were in shock to see women behind the alter rail and handing out communion in the hand. We knew this was wrong. After that I prayed for a traditional Catholic Church that was the real Catholic Church, is the best way to put it. One with nuns who wore long habits, etc.. One evening a city bus driver asked me what religion I was. I told him and told him how I didn't like the church. He told me about Mount Saint Michael's, a Tridentine church in our city. Long story short, at age 19 I went there and it felt like home. That was 33 years ago and I'm still going there. I won't even go into a norvus ordo church, or any other church. The FSSP is wrong as well.
I wish this mass was available in my area on a more regular basis. What a beautiful mass. It seems strange that there is so much hatred towards it. It's as if people forget that it is beauty more than words that truly evangelizes a culture, not to mention the grace that flows from such a mass. This is how we will evangelize the culture, through the mass, and the mass of the Saints no less. I'm sick of the catch phrases and the empty one liners from the pulpit. I want our traditions back, I want access to our patrimony as Catholics.
If the Novus Ordo was so good, why are the churches that offer it essentially empty? Look at the people attending -- they will all be dead I. about 20 years. If the Church does not return to the Extraordinary Form, it will cease to exist.
A reverent Novus Ordo would have to have at least these changes: - Mass said ad orientum - majority of the prayers in Latin, Especially the Eucharistic prayers - Prayers of the faithful revised to be a more permanent and cohesive part of the mass and said by the priest (like the prayers for the faithful in eastern rites.) - The communion meal administered at the restored communion rails, on the tongue while kneeling. (and that's where the meal symbology rests, not on the altar, the altar should be an altar of sacrifice not a dinner table.) - Delete Eucharistic prayers 2,3 and 4, only option would be the Roman Canon. - And the Order of Readings needs to be revised to come more into line with tradition if Benedict's changes had not already done this.
I went to my first sung Tridentine Mass today in Madrid. It's had such a big effect on me, I've never experienced anything so beautifully Catholic is all my life.
Glad that this video was propose to me by CZcams. It gives light on thé no sense of the new motu proprio. Simple and clear video showing the legitimity of the Mass that has been given from the begining… Thank you ! ✨🙏📿🕊
I think more than anything in the Novus Ordo that I miss, more than the prayers and the Mass being said Ad Orientam is the silence. The Latin Mass has long periods of uninterrupted, beautiful, silence. It helps you contemplate God, the sacraments and the Church in general. Without it, Mass just feels empty, diminished.
And I disagree with you there, it’s one reform that I do appreciate. Lex credendi lex orandi. If we believe, we should profess that belief with our lips as Christ commands us in Sacred Scripture. Most often today, people who attend the Latin Mass go the entire time without praying anything out loud and that doesn’t show me anything about faith. It is true God knows your heart but it’s a good visible sign of unity in the Church. The Consecration is solemn in both Masses and that’s what’s important.
I love the Tridentine form of the Mass greatly and think that the reform that bore the Mass of Paul VI was not done all that well, but to say that it is a liturgical abuse to celebrate versus populum when celebrating under the most current Roman Missal is an outright lie, unless you reject the authority of Holy Mother Church to revise canon law and the rubrics of the Mass.
The Novus ordo is sacramentally valid, but the Tridentine Mass does it better with Ad Orientem, It is Christ Centered instead of man. I agree, it is not abuse. The Novus Ordo can still be devout. There have been several eucharistic Miracles. But I like the tridentine form better.
@@juanpabloesparza1285 I doubt that Novus ordo mass is valid, since it changed the words of transubstantiation, Roman rite always said "this is chalice of my blood, the new and eternal covenant, that is shed for you and for many" this was always used, but in Novus ordo we have "this is chalice of my blood, the new and eternal covenant, that is shed for you and for all" This is the problem. They changed the words, thus invalidated it. (and no mention about ommiting of Mysteri fidei - the mystery of faith). Also, when we look at other Catholic rites, they always say "for you and for many". Catholic Church throughout her history taught that these words cannot be changed, otherwise the mass is invalid.
I'm very blessed to have a Tridentine in the city where I live and very blessed to attend the Mass there. The beauty of the Tridentine Mass! I don't only go to the Tridentine Mass and never the novus ordo, but I also wear long skirts and tops that are NOT revealing along with my brown scapular. I have a good friend who goes to a novus ordo church every week and I'm shocked at the things he tells me (all the things the novus ordo church has omitted) from its religion.
Do you leave your poor friend in darkness? Invite them to mass at Mount Saint Michaels and see whether or not they convert as they must to be saved as the Novus Ordo religion is not Catholic as you know. God bless you!
Dr.Who1980 Productions Dr.Who1980 Productions unfortunately I could never get him to go to the TLM with me. He seems to be against the traditional Latin Mass. A couple of years ago he and his wife moved out of state.
The use of the maniple has not been abolished, it is simply not required anymore. I have seen several priests wear it while celebrating the Novus Ordo.
Marie-Julie Jahenny recieved the following revelation from Our Lord on On November 27, *1902 and May 10, 1904* (Our Lord and Our Lady announced the conspiracy to invent the "New Mass"): "I give you a _warning_. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas and under the influence of the enemy of souls a _Mass_ that contains words that are *_odious_* in My sight. When the fatal hour arrives when the faith of my priests is put to the test, it will be (these texts) that will be celebrated in this _second_ period ... The _first_ period is (the one) of my priesthood which exists since Me. The _second_ is (the one) of the persecution when the ENEMIES of the Faith and of Holy Religion (will impose their formulas) in the book of the second celebration ... These infamous spirits are those who crucified Me and are awaiting the kingdom of _the new messiah_." [EMPHASIS MINE]
The audacity of the Novus Ordo diaspora to call the Mass of all time (see _Quo Primum_) 'out of the ordinary' or 'not the ordinary' (which is what extra-ordinary [outside-the-ordinary] means).
Now let me as you a question: John 20: "When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." Now, did Jesus give to men the ability to "forgive" or even to "retain" other men's sins?
The extraordinary form is the novelty of the Novus ( New ) Ordo which is only 50years old and the ordinary form is the 1,500 year old Mass of the ages the Traditional form which has produced a multitude of saints and charisms in the church, by contrast the novelty has produced conflict, division, banal liturgies, empty churches and Catholics who know nothing of the catechism or true teachings of the popes throughout history
"Novus ordo" means new order, enough said. The Church of the last 60 years is not even recognizably Catholic and it gets more and more protestant every day.
Marie-Julie Jahenny recieved the following revelation from Our Lord on On November 27, *1902 and May 10, 1904* (Our Lord and Our Lady announced the conspiracy to invent the "New Mass"): "I give you a _warning_. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas and under the influence of the enemy of souls a _Mass_ that contains words that are *_odious_* in My sight. When the fatal hour arrives when the faith of my priests is put to the test, it will be (these texts) that will be celebrated in this _second_ period ... The _first_ period is (the one) of my priesthood which exists since Me. The _second_ is (the one) of the persecution when the ENEMIES of the Faith and of Holy Religion (will impose their formulas) in the book of the second celebration ... These infamous spirits are those who crucified Me and are awaiting the kingdom of _the new messiah_." [EMPHASIS MINE]
I would not deny the validity of Masses said according to the Novus Ordo, its intrinsic essence is the same as every other valid Mass in any rite, that is, the sacrifice of Calvary. But the extrinsic expressional value of the Tridentine Mass is much higher than the Novus Ordo. The traditional Roman Rite is the first fruit of the Roman church. The Novus Ordo is not. God gave us His first born Son, we shall also offer Him with our first fruit rite.
I go to a Catholic Church that does Novus Ordo mass. I LOVE the Church I go to, I consider it family and community and feel so much love there. But, I really want to try out Latin Mass (Even if I were to only visit it once!) I know that Latin mass is the correct and real way all Catholic Churches should be doing. But I feel as if I'd be so confused if I went to one :( I'm in RCIA (I was baptized Catholic but am still awaiting my First Commnion & Confirmation so the Priests at my parish put me in RCIA) so if iwere to visit a Latin mass, what is the proper ettiquete to show the Priest you will NOT be recieving communion? someone please tell me. Also, please pray for me that I will be able to have the opportunity to visit a Tridentine mass at some point. Thank you!
+TheRoman Catholic If you don't want to receive communion at Latin mass, then just stay in your seat when people go up to the altar rails. Also, you shouldn't be confused or nervous. A novus ordo mass is actually more difficult to participate in since there's so many replies, but in the Latin mass the replies are done by the altar servers and the people remain quiet for MOST of the mass, however there are some replies before the gospel reading and before the canon (the preface) and a few other minor places. Before gospel: Priest/Cantor: Dominus Vobiscum People: Et cum spiritu tuo Priest/cantor: Sequentia sancti evangeli secunudum _______ (whichever gospel is chanted) People: Gloria Tibi Domine Preface: Priest: Dominus vobiscum People: Et cum spiritu tuo Priest: Sursum corda People: habemus ad dominum Priest: gratias agamus domino Deo nostro People: Dignum et iustum est (then the priest chants the preface for that day) I wouldn't be too nervous if I were you, just relax and enjoy and fully devote yourself to God in this glorious form of the Roman rite. There's few replies and once memorized they'll become second nature to you. GOOD LUCK!
The Catholic Teen : Greetings, just take your time, God knows your heart ❤️. Graciously learn your present RCIA and after learn more about the blessed Tridentine Mass. In the mean time, go to a Goodwill store ( or second hand store) and look for a pre Vatican II Missal. I have found some beautiful Missals at these second hand shops for a few dollars, they are treasures you can learn from ( I usually thank the previous owner in my heart). Take care, God bless you
Latin is not dead, it is the language of the Church. Each and every official papal document is first written in Latin and only afterwards translated into other languages. "Not being able to understand Latin" is just an excuse for laziness. Missals are bilingual: one column gives you the Latin text, the other column on the page gives you the translation into the local language. You can walk into any Traditional Mass anywhere in the world and be able to participate, as opposed to your Novus Ordo.
I don't think the Tridentine Mass is allowed to be said in any language other than Latin. The readings can be said (or chanted) in vernacular instead, and the sermon (which is not really a part of the Mass in the traditional rite) has always been in the vernacular, but everything else remains in Latin. Are you attending an Anglican Ordinariate Mass instead? With the given choices it can look very Tridentine (with some Novus Ordo alterations), but it still isn't Tridentine.
There's so much variation it's hard to generalize. I've never seen one of those at an OF. I imagine the video author has had a similar experience. Now I follow the TLM only.
Catholics are at Mass to worship God not each other. Its amazing to me that instead of discussion how Catholics can worship in the most beautify way that gives glory to the Most High, its always about what can I get what can we understand. The faith is not man centered
In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'"
Another perspective here. I'm a cradle Catholic born after Vatican II. The Novus Ordo was what I grew up with and all I ever knew, till I went to a Latin Mass a year or two ago. I've been to a few more since then. I understand the appeal of the Tridentine Mass to those who grew up with and remember it. It's conducted with much more reverence. But it also feels (to me) distant and removed. I prefer the communal aspect of the Ordinary Form, but the casualness does grate on me at times. I don't like seeing communion in the hand, and I don't like seeing laypeople distributing the body and blood. "Extraordinary minister" should mean just that -- that they're used only under extraordinary circumstances, when the priest and deacon can't possibly distribute communion to everyone, which is almost never the case. So to me there are pluses and minuses to both. I do think a Novus Ordo can be done well, especially if you attend a high Mass in a place like a cathedral. I love my bells and smells -- pipe organs, incense, choirs. That's like heaven coming down to earth. I'm allergic to guitars and pianos and modern hymns in church -- might as well be in a Protestant service when all that rolls around. Bottom line, to me, is that the Real Presence is there in both forms of the Mass. In the end, that's what really counts. We can bring our own sense of awe and reverence to communion, regardless of what's going on around us. I'm actually growing fond of the Eastern Catholic way of doing things. Very ancient liturgies, sung almost all the way through, and no extraordinary ministers distributing communion. Priest faces ad orientem. Perfect balance for someone like me who appreciates the reverence and tradition of the Extraordinary Form but also the communal/participatory aspect of the Novus Ordo. I'd recommend trying at least one Eastern Catholic liturgy for anyone dissatisfied with the Latin rite for any reason.
The good thing about the Novo Ordo is, in my opinion, that the Eucharist Prayer is spoken instead of "whispered" (no offense). Besides that, a Mass in the local language can be as devote as a Mass in Latin. Not everything about the Novo ordo is bad and not everything about the Tridentine Mass is good (and the other way round). Just my opinion.
Hans Coessens But without the ability to participate completely, the faithful's thoughts drift. If they can hear the prayer, they can focus and pray along with the Priest... Offering everyones prayers up to God, not just one mans.
+Cheryl Dahl Faithful in Tridentine Mass exactly pray, but in silence, with their Missal. And thoughts drift? The fact is Nervous Ordo Mess makes faithful's thoughts drift since it is like a social gathering, and nowadays Nervous Ordo "Catholics" are more and more compromising on Catholic doctrines such as abortion and LGBT, while Traditionalist are uncompromising, and their community is increasing.
I didn’t realize you have more authority than Rome. The order of the Mass is mostly disciplinary, not doctrinal. Therefore you are bound by Rome’s judgement whether you like it or not. Be lucky they never abrogated the Mass in the first place like Pius V did to previous Masses.
Who gave people like you the authority to declare what was establised by an ecumenical council invalid, and approved by four Popes'. I pray that the Lord will give you the grace of humility, repentance and obedience. Do you know Latin? Most lovers of the so called Tridridentine Mass, a misnome, because you know little about the history of the Liturgy. The Council of Trent did not "create" any Mass. Rather the council asked the Pope at the time Pius V, to reform the liturgy. He and those who worked for him did their best with the limited historical knowledge they had at the time. Latin was retained due to the struggle with Protestantism at the time. The Roman Church celebrated the Eucharist in Greek well into the 3rd century. Innstead of fighting about "the Tridentine Mass, which never existed, you ought to try to evangelize those the nominal catholis who deprive themselves of the Eucharist. The liturgy has evolved over the centuries and some abuses crept into it and had to be eliminated. I invite you to read Fr. Righetti's three volume work on the history of litrygy and get an idea of how this evolution happened. I suppose you consider the way St Paul ad the other apostles, as well as the Fathers of the Church celebrated the Eucharist invalid or wrong also. I agree with you if you decry abuses, but please don't throw out the baby with thebath water.
The gospel was originally not part of the Mass, but now it is. In fact, it is written in one of the altar cards (left side, called the gospel side because of it).
I am from Romania. It's a country majoritary orthodox, We have many catholics in Transylvania, Bucharest and Iasi. I asked some seminarians from Iasi and they don't know about something like this.
In Romania, you have Eastern Catholics who are in full communion with Rome. The Eastern rites have never used Tridentine. They use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
Yes, they don't want ... because they think that all the meeting projects proposed by Rome imply to accept the Novus Ordo Missae ... moreover, that's why the Pope stopped the discussions ... he thought that the canonical question could not be settled as long as the dogmatic and liturgical question had not been settled (implying, as long as the SSPX had not accepted the Novus Ordo Missae)
2 Timothy 3:16,"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right." ARE YOU SAYING THIS SCRIPTURE IS A LIE?
Unfortunately, I really think that among less educated Catholics the Tridentine Mass was little more than magic performed by a priest who was pretty much the same as the Shaman or another purveyor of pagan rites and rituals. The common people were and to a great extent still are superstitious more than "religious" in a theological sense. This is not just from my ministry, when I was an active priest, but fully supported by a number of priests from Europe and the USA who ministered to people in South American countries. One priest that I knew personally who ministered in Uruguay eventually quit because he simply could not stand being equated to the local Shaman and class or no class, they had no intention of viewing him as anything else. This is a common complaint.
That's not true, even in medieval times people could understand what's happening during mass, and all of them knew Basic latin prayers such as Ave Maria, Pater Noster, Credo... The idea that no one could understand Tridentine mass was spread after V2 in order to dishonor it.
A priest friend commented that the "silence" was really an Irish thing, and as the U.S. church is dominated by the Irish, we think it's the only way. Apparently the Latin Mass in France is not said that way. It makes sense to me, because the orthodox liturgies I've been to don't have long silences.
We never have silence at the oratory we go too. Even if the clergy are silent, there are so many children that it's never completely silent. We must be very thankful for that!
thanks for the info above on the hymn being sung...it could have been the words to Jingle Bells for all we knew.....I bet it is a beautiful hymn...lets hear it in English so we ALL can understand
i'm not talking about parts of the mass being removed. i'm talking about DEVOTIONALS, not mass parts, being removed. as i said, i like having them there, but people (it seems yourself included) mistakenly have believed that devotionals AFTER the mass are part of the mass itself, which is not true. also, i don't know where you got the idea that the mass is not taught to be a sacrifice anymore.
I suppose for me it comes down to this: Supposing, arguendo, that there are or have been "Bad Popes" and the Church is in "Error" - it wouldn't be the first time! - Yet the Holy Spirit has always protected the Church and in time brought her back into God's graces. SO, the Question becomes - IF the Church is in Error, HOW should a Christian respond? As St. Francis of Assisi did? As St. Catherine of Siena did? OR - As Martin Luther did?
A prominent Catholic priest says he believes “youngsters” are often to blame for sexual abuse by priests and that priests who are first time offenders should not be jailed for their crime. well known as the host of Sunday Night Prime with Father Benedict Groeschel, a weekly show on Catholic television network EWTN.
let me start by saying, overall, i do prefer the extraordinary form of the mass. i want to mention a couple things though. the second scripture reading in the N.O. is, i believe, an improvement. i also think the audible canon helps a lot of people to better reflect on the sacrifice of the mass. and, as my uncle (now a bishop) explained to me about the last gospel and leonine prayers, they were devotionals added over time that people were mistakenly starting to believe were part of the mass.
The priest does not have his back to the people. He is leading the people in the worship of Our Lord in the tabernacle. When Our Lord returns, it will be in the east and all his people at Mass will be facing in that direction. You would seem to have a very limited idea of the worship of God. You should check out the Orthodox, both Greek and Russian as they worship Our Lord in the same way. In fact in eastern churches you can see anything except an Iconostasis or rudescreen.
Act 17:20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean. Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
None of us were old enough to witness the council of Constantinople, yet we know all about the background, there heresies refuted and the canons that came out as a consequence.
Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter's statement "The church here in Babylon ... sends you her greeting" (from I Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further: "Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18
I'm not sure what he's referring to, but what I notice is that the slide at 3:01 fails to mention the Gospel under the Novus Ordo column. Likewise, the slide at 3:19 fails to mention Communion under the Novus Ordo column.
***** 3:01 The Novus Ordo is structured differently on Sundays. On weekdays there are two readings but on Sundays there are three (the Gospel is the third reading, which isn't mentioned on the slide). Regardless, the responsorial psalm comes between the first and second readings, not after them. 3:19 I was referring to how the slide says "Communion & Postcommunion Verse" in the Tridentine column but doesn't mention anything similar in the Novus Ordo column. I'm not sure if there is a Communion verse in the Novus Ordo or not, but I know that there's a post-Communion prayer.
Correction: both Last Gospel and others after the dismissal. My point still is the changes brought in the 1960's were fabricated, despite what you were told or believe, which in turn changed the believers. Hence, many do not believe dogma and the Truths of the Church, eg, the Sacrifice.
I agree with you on some points, but not on versus populum. In practice, I think it often allows Mass to be even more of a spectactle rather than an act of communal worship. Also, it must be noted that historically, versus populum is a confusing minority practice not in accord with the ancient practice of facing east, which is preserved among the Eastern Churches almost universally (excepting those who have unfortunately Latinized).
actually, the left side is the gospel side because when christianity was spreading around in the beginning, the heathens were located to the north in europe, so the gospel was preached to the north (the left side of the church faces north). the epistle is read at the south (right), to those who already believed. the mass ends with "ite missa est" ("the mass is ended") after the final blessing. the last gospel is read after that. i like the last gospel reading, but it is not a part of the mass.
Pope Innocent III 1198-1216 Innocent called the Fourth Crusade, which was diverted to Constantinople. The pope excommunicated the Crusaders who attacked Christian cities, but he made no move to halt or overturn their actions because he felt that the Latin presence would bring about a reconciliation between the Eastern and Western Churches. Innocent also ordered a crusade against the Albigenses, which successfully subdued the Cathar heresy in France but at a great cost in life and blood.
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all." Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy," (Rev. 19:10).
As to this video, it omits many things that are common between the structures of the two forms of Mass. IMHO, it focuses on the wrong things that make the EF vastly superior.
I personally believe: The Altar should be lined: Tabernacle, cross, candles, table, etc. on the center of the church. The priest to use the Cope and the Amice Facing the Faithful Local Language Incense on Sacraments, Solemnities, Funerals, Thanksgiving and Sunday Asperges Me Lectern Traditional Vessels, Baroque (ex.) not modern All Solemn Ceremonies in Latin
the anathema did not refer to future popes authorizing changes to the mass. the codification of the mass at trent and the anathema on changing any parts was in direct response to the protestant reformation and the heretical teachings of the reformers that were leading to changing the liturgy.
I like the old style mass but that's just a personal preference. It was originally in Greek, actually, but changed to Latin (excepting the Kyrie) so it could be understood by the Romans who didn't know Greek. And many elements of the Tridentine Mass are just that, Tridentine. They don't date back further than the 1500's, and many medieval parts were suppressed at Trent.
@priest008 Sorry to hear that, been there, done that. But it comes a moment that you cannot digest the silliness anymore. I stopped going to church altogether, just praying at home. Thank God, there was a SSPX parish at 1 hour from here, hesitant at first and alert, I came to know the Mass of the ages, and there is no comparison among them . No turning back to the novus disorder for me , friend, they claim they are the same, but no way in this world!!
The Tridentine can't be practiced in some churches because of the way the church is built. My church has the pews facing each other, and a large aisle between them. The altar, a baptismal pool (yes, pool), and the priest's chair are in that aisle. Basically, the Nave and sanctuary are the same, then the tabernacle is in a totally different room. How would a traditional mass be practiced in such a space?
The first part of your comment seems to suggest that the building doesn't matter at all but then you say, "a building is a place where faithful assemble to worship and revere God Almighty". I'm confused. Do you think the building matters or not? If it does, then what structural characteristics would best be conducive to worship and reverence to God Almighty?
The Greek tenses of John 20:23 make it clear that the apostles were authorized only to announce the terms of forgiveness, and that upon the basis of God’s previous appointment. Literally, the text suggests: “Those whose sins you forgive, have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive, have not already been forgiven.” verbs are in the perfect tense. The perfect tense verbs imply an abiding state which commenced before the action of the aorists.
OK, no labels then. Simple question: If I can demonstrate using the Bible, history, and logic that your position is incorrect, will you change your mind, yes or no? The point of debating is to convince the other person of one's argument. If, out of hand, you refuse, then there's no point in casting pearls before swine.
Until 2018, I didn’t even know that there were any extraordinary forms of the Mass in use. Then I was invited by a fellow fan of Church Militant to attend a Tridentine Mass (called “Traditional Latin Mass” in my diocese) at a parish about 20 miles from my home. It was so beautiful that I cried throughout - I had to restrain myself from crying out loud! ✝️😭 I ended up leaving the parish that’s one mile from my home (which has Novus Ordo Masses full of liturgical abuses) and joining that TLM parish (which also has an excellent ad Deum Novus Ordo Mass). I have no regrets.
Long after the Novus Ordo will just be an unucky footnote in the Church's history, the Tridentine Mass will still be alive. The Tridentine Mass is eternal, and making a huge comeback. Go to an average Novus ordo parish and watch: the elderly and the babyboomer generation attend. These parishes will disappear within 10 to 15 years. Go to a Tridentine Mass and see the young families. The future is traditional.
The boomers would suppress the Mass of the Ages until their last breathe. The Church will triumph and return to tradition. However, much harm have already been done, and it would take very long, probably more than a hundred years to recover from them…
But we must encounter death in order to be raised from the dead and become more glorious than ever. Maybe our Lord allowed such oppression in these five decades, so that the Tridentine Mass will be even more treasured when it makes its comeback; for we have seen how precious yet fragile it is through these tribulations.
@@larryjohnwong The Church never left tradition. Those that adhere to Vatican II simply left the Church. The Catholic Church is the same as it always was. This cannot be changed by the actions of men. The remnant exists as prophecy foretold, and through those people the Church has not fallen. The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass, and bears striking similarities to how things are set up in a Freemason lodge.
@@audioelitist3677 could you elaborate on the similarities to the Masonic Lodge? I’ve recently been exposed to how V2 has influences from Freemasonry.
@@ClergetMusic V2 isn't just influenced by Freemasonry. IT IS FREEMASONRY. It's Satanic. Here's how blatantly obvious it is. Almost all of the same changes were made to the Mass in the protestant reformation and V2. One, "Catholics" clearly call out has heretical, while on the other they think is perfectly fine. "Catholics" tend not to care about the truth or blatant heresy so long as a Freemason is telling them it's fine. They don't look into anything for themselves and allow themselves to be blindly taken where ever a heretic in a costume says. No, I'm not going to explain it to you. Just look up... "Why the New Mass and New Rite of Ordination are Invalid" here on CZcams.
@@audioelitist3677 you don’t really have to explain much: I’m familiar with this topic to a decent degree. Also, everything that changed with the Mass ( ie the new options given) were all condemned by Pius VI in Auctorem Fidei.
As a teenager in Ireland (I was born in 1968) I was very interested in the 'Liturgical Movement' and had begun to hope for a new approach to the celebration of the Tridentine Mass. That was to have the low Mass in the Tridentine rite said in the language of the people in all parts of the world but that any High Mass ('Missa Solemnis') would be sung in Latin. Such an arrangement would, I believe, have pleased everybody other than the modernists and freemasons in Rome and elsewhere who wanted to "open the Church to the modern world." The implementation of that policy had the disastrous consequences that we have had to simply like it or lump it...
I wish that every Catholic parish has one Tridentine mass every Sunday. It is much more prayerful and uplifting than the Novus Ordo mass.
:(
@@teenherofilms NewChurch (the Modernists' parody of Catholicism) is that, but the true (Roman Catholic) Church is holy and unyielding to the Truth.
I wish someday, the Tridentine Mass will become the normative, Ordinary Form of the Holy Mass, just like it had always been before.
The Tridentine mass isn't just more uplifting, it's valid. The Novus Ordo is not.
@@jayjaykay111 For the bread to become Christ, the Mass has to be valid. That means there has to be a validly ordained priest saying all the necessary prayers. If either of these elements isn't there, which in the Novus Ordo, at the very least the prayers are missing, the mass cannot possibly be valid. Vatican II isn't Catholic. I'd recommend you looking into what I'm saying before you simply write me off as a heretic. Most of what I've learned is from vaticancatholic, where the Dimond brothers make an ironclad case. The video "Why the New Mass and New Rite of Ordination are Invalid" from there is excellent. You would be correct to say I'm outside of the Church if the Novus Ordo was valid. That just isn't the case.
The suppression of this most reverend and true form of Mass does not surprise, nor the amount of rejection it gets from the faithful. Miserere Nostri Domine, Miserere Nostri
The faithful don't reject The Mass, but they ought to reject the non-Catholic so-called new mass.
@@mrearly2 Exactly. I was going to respond with almost exactly that to find somebody had already done the job.
At age 17 I asked my mother what religion I was supposed to be. At age 7 I went to the episcopalian church on my own because it was very close to where I lived and I didn't know any better. My mother told that I should be a Roman Catholic. At around age 18 a friend and I went to a Catholic Church but we were in shock to see women behind the alter rail and handing out communion in the hand. We knew this was wrong. After that I prayed for a traditional Catholic Church that was the real Catholic Church, is the best way to put it. One with nuns who wore long habits, etc.. One evening a city bus driver asked me what religion I was. I told him and told him how I didn't like the church. He told me about Mount Saint Michael's, a Tridentine church in our city. Long story short, at age 19 I went there and it felt like home. That was 33 years ago and I'm still going there. I won't even go into a norvus ordo church, or any other church. The FSSP is wrong as well.
That last line of yours about the FSSP prompts me to ask, Do you think the Holy See sits vacant?
Isabella A Rossellini I am thinking you are in Spokane. I've been to Mount st Michael's.... They are sedevacantist.
You're spelling it wrong. Novus ordo church is actually spelt CATHOLIC CHURCH
The F.S.S.P is not bad itStemmed off of the Society of Saint Pius the 10th they are the ones that the group that is not reconciled to Rome
Hello fellow sedevacantist.
I wish this mass was available in my area on a more regular basis. What a beautiful mass. It seems strange that there is so much hatred towards it. It's as if people forget that it is beauty more than words that truly evangelizes a culture, not to mention the grace that flows from such a mass. This is how we will evangelize the culture, through the mass, and the mass of the Saints no less. I'm sick of the catch phrases and the empty one liners from the pulpit. I want our traditions back, I want access to our patrimony as Catholics.
If the Novus Ordo was so good, why are the churches that offer it essentially empty? Look at the people attending -- they will all be dead I. about 20 years. If the Church does not return to the Extraordinary Form, it will cease to exist.
A reverent Novus Ordo would have to have at least these changes:
- Mass said ad orientum
- majority of the prayers in Latin, Especially the Eucharistic prayers
- Prayers of the faithful revised to be a more permanent and cohesive part of the mass and said by the priest (like the prayers for the faithful in eastern rites.)
- The communion meal administered at the restored communion rails, on the tongue while kneeling. (and that's where the meal symbology rests, not on the altar, the altar should be an altar of sacrifice not a dinner table.)
- Delete Eucharistic prayers 2,3 and 4, only option would be the Roman Canon.
- And the Order of Readings needs to be revised to come more into line with tradition if Benedict's changes had not already done this.
I would say the entire Mass should be in Latin.
So would I.
***** They are sourced from Eastern Traditions and modified out of context. They do not fit the Latin liturgy.
I went to my first sung Tridentine Mass today in Madrid. It's had such a big effect on me, I've never experienced anything so beautifully Catholic is all my life.
Catholic teen..just go to a tridentine Mass and have a word with the priest.
Where's the Tabernacle in the Vatican 2 church? I'm so happy to be a Tridentine! It was an answer to a prayer! The greatest gift on earth!
Me too...
Glad that this video was propose to me by CZcams. It gives light on thé no sense of the new motu proprio. Simple and clear video showing the legitimity of the Mass that has been given from the begining… Thank you ! ✨🙏📿🕊
Bring back this traditional mass and restore the reverence that once was. God never changes only we do.
I think more than anything in the Novus Ordo that I miss, more than the prayers and the Mass being said Ad Orientam is the silence.
The Latin Mass has long periods of uninterrupted, beautiful, silence.
It helps you contemplate God, the sacraments and the Church in general.
Without it, Mass just feels empty, diminished.
And I disagree with you there, it’s one reform that I do appreciate. Lex credendi lex orandi. If we believe, we should profess that belief with our lips as Christ commands us in Sacred Scripture. Most often today, people who attend the Latin Mass go the entire time without praying anything out loud and that doesn’t show me anything about faith. It is true God knows your heart but it’s a good visible sign of unity in the Church. The Consecration is solemn in both Masses and that’s what’s important.
I love the Tridentine form of the Mass greatly and think that the reform that bore the Mass of Paul VI was not done all that well, but to say that it is a liturgical abuse to celebrate versus populum when celebrating under the most current Roman Missal is an outright lie, unless you reject the authority of Holy Mother Church to revise canon law and the rubrics of the Mass.
The Novus ordo is sacramentally valid, but the Tridentine Mass does it better with Ad Orientem, It is Christ Centered instead of man. I agree, it is not abuse. The Novus Ordo can still be devout. There have been several eucharistic Miracles. But I like the tridentine form better.
@@juanpabloesparza1285 I doubt that Novus ordo mass is valid, since it changed the words of transubstantiation, Roman rite always said "this is chalice of my blood, the new and eternal covenant, that is shed for you and for many" this was always used, but in Novus ordo we have "this is chalice of my blood, the new and eternal covenant, that is shed for you and for all" This is the problem. They changed the words, thus invalidated it. (and no mention about ommiting of Mysteri fidei - the mystery of faith). Also, when we look at other Catholic rites, they always say "for you and for many".
Catholic Church throughout her history taught that these words cannot be changed, otherwise the mass is invalid.
Very good video, God bless you for making it.
I'm very blessed to have a Tridentine in the city where I live and very blessed to attend the Mass there. The beauty of the Tridentine Mass! I don't only go to the Tridentine Mass and never the novus ordo, but I also wear long skirts and tops that are NOT revealing along with my brown scapular. I have a good friend who goes to a novus ordo church every week and I'm shocked at the things he tells me (all the things the novus ordo church has omitted) from its religion.
Do you leave your poor friend in darkness? Invite them to mass at Mount Saint Michaels and see whether or not they convert as they must to be saved as the Novus Ordo religion is not Catholic as you know. God bless you!
Dr.Who1980 Productions Dr.Who1980 Productions unfortunately I could never get him to go to the TLM with me. He seems to be against the traditional Latin Mass. A couple of years ago he and his wife moved out of state.
@@psychedelicpython Oh my. I'll pray for them.
0:48 this one is so accurate lol
The use of the maniple has not been abolished, it is simply not required anymore. I have seen several priests wear it while celebrating the Novus Ordo.
what is its use or significance?
Msza Świeta Trydencka,Doskonała po wsze czasy ! Deo gratias.
Thanks for educating me
Marie-Julie Jahenny recieved the following revelation from Our Lord on
On November 27, *1902 and May 10, 1904* (Our Lord and Our Lady announced
the conspiracy to invent the "New Mass"):
"I give you a _warning_. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas and under the influence of the enemy of souls a _Mass_ that contains words that are *_odious_* in My sight. When the fatal hour arrives when the faith of my priests is put to the test, it will be (these texts) that will be celebrated in this _second_ period ... The _first_ period is (the one) of my priesthood which exists since Me. The _second_ is (the one) of the persecution when the ENEMIES of the Faith and of Holy Religion (will impose their formulas) in the book of the second celebration ... These infamous spirits are those who crucified Me and are awaiting the kingdom of _the new messiah_."
[EMPHASIS MINE]
The audacity of the Novus Ordo diaspora to call the Mass of all time (see _Quo Primum_) 'out of the ordinary' or 'not the ordinary' (which is what extra-ordinary [outside-the-ordinary] means).
Now let me as you a question:
John 20:
"When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."
Now, did Jesus give to men the ability to "forgive" or even to "retain" other men's sins?
The extraordinary form is the novelty of the Novus ( New ) Ordo which is only 50years old and the ordinary form is the 1,500 year old Mass of the ages the Traditional form which has produced a multitude of saints and charisms in the church, by contrast the novelty has produced conflict, division, banal liturgies, empty churches and Catholics who know nothing of the catechism or true teachings of the popes throughout history
At an early age I saw my first Latin Mass and have seen nothing since then to compare with it.
"Novus ordo" means new order, enough said. The Church of the last 60 years is not even recognizably Catholic and it gets more and more protestant every day.
We love our Subdeacons, God bless them.
My grandmother's funeral was a tridentine mass and I can't say I had the privilege to understand what was happening
Y en 2021, toda esperanza del retorno a la santa gloria y santidad de la Misa y su misterio, nuevamente fue abolido...
I rather Traditional Mass, but Novus Ordo Mass is also valid. Jesus is also there and if you can't see is because of you.
Amen. Tridentine Mass is ideal while the Novus Ordo is flawed BUT still valid. God hasn't just abandoned His Church because of this.
Marie-Julie Jahenny recieved the following revelation from Our Lord on On November 27, *1902 and May 10, 1904* (Our Lord and Our Lady announced the conspiracy to invent the "New Mass"):
"I give you a _warning_. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas and under the influence of the enemy of souls a _Mass_ that contains words that are *_odious_* in My sight. When the fatal hour arrives when the faith of my priests is put to the test, it will be (these texts) that will be celebrated in this _second_ period ... The _first_ period is (the one) of my priesthood which exists since Me. The _second_ is (the one) of the persecution when the ENEMIES of the Faith and of Holy Religion (will impose their formulas) in the book of the second celebration ... These infamous spirits are those who crucified Me and are awaiting the kingdom of _the new messiah_."
[EMPHASIS MINE]
Libera Nos Domine And Pope Pius made Roncalli a Cardinal.....Just saying.
Joseph Vu yes but also banished Roncalli to be the archbishop of Venice. He was in trouble with the FBI.
I would not deny the validity of Masses said according to the Novus Ordo, its intrinsic essence is the same as every other valid Mass in any rite, that is, the sacrifice of Calvary. But the extrinsic expressional value of the Tridentine Mass is much higher than the Novus Ordo. The traditional Roman Rite is the first fruit of the Roman church. The Novus Ordo is not. God gave us His first born Son, we shall also offer Him with our first fruit rite.
I go to a Catholic Church that does Novus Ordo mass. I LOVE the Church I go to, I consider it family and community and feel so much love there. But, I really want to try out Latin Mass (Even if I were to only visit it once!) I know that Latin mass is the correct and real way all Catholic Churches should be doing. But I feel as if I'd be so confused if I went to one :( I'm in RCIA (I was baptized Catholic but am still awaiting my First Commnion & Confirmation so the Priests at my parish put me in RCIA) so if iwere to visit a Latin mass, what is the proper ettiquete to show the Priest you will NOT be recieving communion? someone please tell me. Also, please pray for me that I will be able to have the opportunity to visit a Tridentine mass at some point. Thank you!
+TheRoman Catholic If you don't want to receive communion at Latin mass, then just stay in your seat when people go up to the altar rails. Also, you shouldn't be confused or nervous. A novus ordo mass is actually more difficult to participate in since there's so many replies, but in the Latin mass the replies are done by the altar servers and the people remain quiet for MOST of the mass, however there are some replies before the gospel reading and before the canon (the preface) and a few other minor places.
Before gospel:
Priest/Cantor: Dominus Vobiscum
People: Et cum spiritu tuo
Priest/cantor: Sequentia sancti evangeli secunudum _______ (whichever gospel is chanted)
People: Gloria Tibi Domine
Preface:
Priest: Dominus vobiscum
People: Et cum spiritu tuo
Priest: Sursum corda
People: habemus ad dominum
Priest: gratias agamus domino Deo nostro
People: Dignum et iustum est
(then the priest chants the preface for that day)
I wouldn't be too nervous if I were you, just relax and enjoy and fully devote yourself to God in this glorious form of the Roman rite. There's few replies and once memorized they'll become second nature to you. GOOD LUCK!
Buzz Targaryen Thanks!
TheRoman Catholic anytime
The Catholic Teen : Greetings, just take your time, God knows your heart ❤️. Graciously learn your present RCIA and after learn more about the blessed Tridentine Mass. In the mean time, go to a Goodwill store ( or second hand store) and look for a pre Vatican II Missal. I have found some beautiful Missals at these second hand shops for a few dollars, they are treasures you can learn from ( I usually thank the previous owner in my heart).
Take care, God bless you
N. C. Hi! I actually have been going to Latin Masses at different parishes lately :D and thank you!
Latin is not dead, it is the language of the Church. Each and every official papal document is first written in Latin and only afterwards translated into other languages. "Not being able to understand Latin" is just an excuse for laziness. Missals are bilingual: one column gives you the Latin text, the other column on the page gives you the translation into the local language. You can walk into any Traditional Mass anywhere in the world and be able to participate, as opposed to your Novus Ordo.
Since attending my first tridentine mass (in english), I have not attended any other mass - every Sunday without fail.
Redpilled by the power of God.
I don't think the Tridentine Mass is allowed to be said in any language other than Latin. The readings can be said (or chanted) in vernacular instead, and the sermon (which is not really a part of the Mass in the traditional rite) has always been in the vernacular, but everything else remains in Latin. Are you attending an Anglican Ordinariate Mass instead? With the given choices it can look very Tridentine (with some Novus Ordo alterations), but it still isn't Tridentine.
The maniple is abolished? Nonsense! Our priest wears one during the Novus Ordo Mass.
Paige Karls very good!
There's so much variation it's hard to generalize.
I've never seen one of those at an OF.
I imagine the video author has had a similar experience. Now I follow the TLM only.
Paige Karls so much YOU can do with a "proper Novus ordo" 😂😂😂
I know that in the new missal is not ''quoted'/''mentioned''. So it was interpretated as an abolition.
what is a maniple?
It's not about whether it's valid or not. I mean, a black mass can be valid! It's about which one has more reverence.
Catholics are at Mass to worship God not each other. Its amazing to me that instead of discussion how Catholics can worship in the most beautify way that gives glory to the Most High, its always about what can I get what can we understand. The faith is not man centered
In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20).
Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'"
Another perspective here. I'm a cradle Catholic born after Vatican II. The Novus Ordo was what I grew up with and all I ever knew, till I went to a Latin Mass a year or two ago. I've been to a few more since then. I understand the appeal of the Tridentine Mass to those who grew up with and remember it. It's conducted with much more reverence. But it also feels (to me) distant and removed. I prefer the communal aspect of the Ordinary Form, but the casualness does grate on me at times. I don't like seeing communion in the hand, and I don't like seeing laypeople distributing the body and blood. "Extraordinary minister" should mean just that -- that they're used only under extraordinary circumstances, when the priest and deacon can't possibly distribute communion to everyone, which is almost never the case. So to me there are pluses and minuses to both. I do think a Novus Ordo can be done well, especially if you attend a high Mass in a place like a cathedral. I love my bells and smells -- pipe organs, incense, choirs. That's like heaven coming down to earth. I'm allergic to guitars and pianos and modern hymns in church -- might as well be in a Protestant service when all that rolls around.
Bottom line, to me, is that the Real Presence is there in both forms of the Mass. In the end, that's what really counts. We can bring our own sense of awe and reverence to communion, regardless of what's going on around us.
I'm actually growing fond of the Eastern Catholic way of doing things. Very ancient liturgies, sung almost all the way through, and no extraordinary ministers distributing communion. Priest faces ad orientem. Perfect balance for someone like me who appreciates the reverence and tradition of the Extraordinary Form but also the communal/participatory aspect of the Novus Ordo. I'd recommend trying at least one Eastern Catholic liturgy for anyone dissatisfied with the Latin rite for any reason.
The good thing about the Novo Ordo is, in my opinion, that the Eucharist Prayer is spoken instead of "whispered" (no offense). Besides that, a Mass in the local language can be as devote as a Mass in Latin. Not everything about the Novo ordo is bad and not everything about the Tridentine Mass is good (and the other way round).
Just my opinion.
+Plethrin Indeed
I agree. Jesus is present in both, and THAT is who really makes them extraordinary!
Hans Coessens
But without the ability to participate completely, the faithful's thoughts drift. If they can hear the prayer, they can focus and pray along with the Priest... Offering everyones prayers up to God, not just one mans.
+Hans Coessens Then why aren't other prayers being said/sung in silence as well?
+Cheryl Dahl Faithful in Tridentine Mass exactly pray, but in silence, with their Missal. And thoughts drift? The fact is Nervous Ordo Mess makes faithful's thoughts drift since it is like a social gathering, and nowadays Nervous Ordo "Catholics" are more and more compromising on Catholic doctrines such as abortion and LGBT, while Traditionalist are uncompromising, and their community is increasing.
I’m happy to attend a Parish that celebrates the Traditional Latin Mass.
Summorum Pontificum is about to be abolished. May God help us!
If you could stop calling the extraordinary form. It's the ordinary. The new mass is inferior
I didn’t realize you have more authority than Rome. The order of the Mass is mostly disciplinary, not doctrinal. Therefore you are bound by Rome’s judgement whether you like it or not. Be lucky they never abrogated the Mass in the first place like Pius V did to previous Masses.
Who gave people like you the authority to declare what was establised by an ecumenical council invalid, and approved by four Popes'. I pray that the Lord will give you the grace of humility, repentance and obedience. Do you know Latin? Most lovers of the so called Tridridentine Mass, a misnome, because you know little about the history of the Liturgy. The Council of Trent did not "create" any Mass. Rather the council asked the Pope at the time Pius V, to reform the liturgy. He and those who worked for him did their best with the limited historical knowledge they had at the time. Latin was retained due to the struggle with Protestantism at the time. The Roman Church celebrated the Eucharist in Greek well into the 3rd century.
Innstead of fighting about "the Tridentine Mass, which never existed, you ought to try to evangelize those the nominal catholis who deprive themselves of the Eucharist. The liturgy has evolved over the centuries and some abuses crept into it and had to be eliminated. I invite you to read Fr. Righetti's three volume work on the history of litrygy and get an idea of how this evolution happened. I suppose you consider the way St Paul ad the other apostles, as well as the Fathers of the Church celebrated the Eucharist invalid or wrong also.
I agree with you if you decry abuses, but please don't throw out the baby with thebath water.
The gospel was originally not part of the Mass, but now it is. In fact, it is written in one of the altar cards (left side, called the gospel side because of it).
0:37 is the church we're I regularly serve the extra-ordinary form near me !! delighted to see it !
I am from Romania. It's a country majoritary orthodox, We have many catholics in Transylvania, Bucharest and Iasi. I asked some seminarians from Iasi and they don't know about something like this.
Fast forward to July 2021 and Jesus cries with sadness.
Francis said no more. 😥😥😥
Beautiful
In Romania, you have Eastern Catholics who are in full communion with Rome. The Eastern rites have never used Tridentine. They use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
Translated from the Greek Liturgy in 210AD? I had no idea. Source? Also, did you make this video?
Same her I went to Tridentine Mass over 4 years ago this September .
I have stop going to NO on A Sunday about 3 years ago.
thanks archbishop lefebvre and others, we can still pray like the church alwais ask of pray... long live FSSPX and all other traditionnal communities
Yes, they don't want ... because they think that all the meeting projects proposed by Rome imply to accept the Novus Ordo Missae ... moreover, that's why the Pope stopped the discussions ... he thought that the canonical question could not be settled as long as the dogmatic and liturgical question had not been settled (implying, as long as the SSPX had not accepted the Novus Ordo Missae)
It's also common to hear the faithful say the leonine prayers after Mass, even though it isn't in the Missal.
2 Timothy 3:16,"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right."
ARE YOU SAYING THIS SCRIPTURE IS A LIE?
Unfortunately, I really think that among less educated Catholics the Tridentine Mass was little more than magic performed by a priest who was pretty much the same as the Shaman or another purveyor of pagan rites and rituals. The common people were and to a great extent still are superstitious more than "religious" in a theological sense. This is not just from my ministry, when I was an active priest, but fully supported by a number of priests from Europe and the USA who ministered to people in South American countries. One priest that I knew personally who ministered in Uruguay eventually quit because he simply could not stand being equated to the local Shaman and class or no class, they had no intention of viewing him as anything else. This is a common complaint.
That's not true, even in medieval times people could understand what's happening during mass, and all of them knew Basic latin prayers such as Ave Maria, Pater Noster, Credo...
The idea that no one could understand Tridentine mass was spread after V2 in order to dishonor it.
A priest friend commented that the "silence" was really an Irish thing, and as the U.S. church is dominated by the Irish, we think it's the only way. Apparently the Latin Mass in France is not said that way. It makes sense to me, because the orthodox liturgies I've been to don't have long silences.
We never have silence at the oratory we go too.
Even if the clergy are silent, there are so many children that it's never completely silent.
We must be very thankful for that!
Can we have a version of this video that's slower. I can't read that fast
thanks for the info above on the hymn being sung...it could have been the words to Jingle Bells for all we knew.....I bet it is a beautiful hymn...lets hear it in English
so we ALL can understand
i'm not talking about parts of the mass being removed. i'm talking about DEVOTIONALS, not mass parts, being removed. as i said, i like having them there, but people (it seems yourself included) mistakenly have believed that devotionals AFTER the mass are part of the mass itself, which is not true.
also, i don't know where you got the idea that the mass is not taught to be a sacrifice anymore.
I love the Latin Mass!
Im here for the music
I believe there was a picture at 0:36 of the shrine of the most Blessed Sacrament, when was that mass?
I suppose for me it comes down to this: Supposing, arguendo, that there are or have been "Bad Popes" and the Church is in "Error" - it wouldn't be the first time! - Yet the Holy Spirit has always protected the Church and in time brought her back into God's graces.
SO, the Question becomes - IF the Church is in Error, HOW should a Christian respond?
As St. Francis of Assisi did?
As St. Catherine of Siena did?
OR - As Martin Luther did?
I love this song.Who made it?
Thank you.... Vivat vetus Ordo! W the latin Tridentine Mass.... God bless
A prominent Catholic priest says he believes “youngsters” are often to blame for sexual abuse by priests and that priests who are first time offenders should not be jailed for their crime.
well known as the host of Sunday Night Prime with Father Benedict Groeschel, a weekly show on Catholic television network EWTN.
The Church's guarantee of indefensibility prevents her from promulgating invalid sacramental rites. Theology 101.
I started going to the Tridentine Mass, and have never went back to the NO!
let me start by saying, overall, i do prefer the extraordinary form of the mass. i want to mention a couple things though. the second scripture reading in the N.O. is, i believe, an improvement. i also think the audible canon helps a lot of people to better reflect on the sacrifice of the mass. and, as my uncle (now a bishop) explained to me about the last gospel and leonine prayers, they were devotionals added over time that people were mistakenly starting to believe were part of the mass.
The priest does not have his back to the people. He is leading the people in the worship of Our Lord in the tabernacle. When Our Lord returns, it will be in the east and all his people at Mass will be facing in that direction. You would seem to have a very limited idea of the worship of God. You should check out the Orthodox, both Greek and Russian as they worship Our Lord in the same way. In fact in eastern churches you can see anything except an Iconostasis or rudescreen.
In Truth and Spirit Worship... 💜✝✝✝💜
Act 17:20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
How many of you were even old enough to know what was going on during Vatican II. I am willing to bet that none of you were.
None of us were old enough to witness the council of Constantinople, yet we know all about the background, there heresies refuted and the canons that came out as a consequence.
I'm pretty sure that Lectors can read the Epistle at Mass... Maybe just in a Missa Cantata or even at a High Mass?
Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter's statement "The church here in Babylon ... sends you her greeting" (from I Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further: "Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18
TLM is so rich and beautiful! We have been robbed!😩
@Alvarado68 I'm curious where exactly are the lies in the slide at 3:01?
I'm not sure what he's referring to, but what I notice is that the slide at 3:01 fails to mention the Gospel under the Novus Ordo column. Likewise, the slide at 3:19 fails to mention Communion under the Novus Ordo column.
djenni12 3:01 "1st and 2nd Readings." 3:19 "Consecration." They're in there.
*****
3:01 The Novus Ordo is structured differently on Sundays. On weekdays there are two readings but on Sundays there are three (the Gospel is the third reading, which isn't mentioned on the slide). Regardless, the responsorial psalm comes between the first and second readings, not after them.
3:19 I was referring to how the slide says "Communion & Postcommunion Verse" in the Tridentine column but doesn't mention anything similar in the Novus Ordo column. I'm not sure if there is a Communion verse in the Novus Ordo or not, but I know that there's a post-Communion prayer.
Correction: both Last Gospel and others after the dismissal. My point still is the changes brought in the 1960's were fabricated, despite what you were told or believe, which in turn changed the believers. Hence, many do not believe dogma and the Truths of the Church, eg, the Sacrifice.
If i said it was all oral tradition would that satisfy you?
I agree with you on some points, but not on versus populum. In practice, I think it often allows Mass to be even more of a spectactle rather than an act of communal worship. Also, it must be noted that historically, versus populum is a confusing minority practice not in accord with the ancient practice of facing east, which is preserved among the Eastern Churches almost universally (excepting those who have unfortunately Latinized).
actually, the left side is the gospel side because when christianity was spreading around in the beginning, the heathens were located to the north in europe, so the gospel was preached to the north (the left side of the church faces north). the epistle is read at the south (right), to those who already believed.
the mass ends with "ite missa est" ("the mass is ended") after the final blessing. the last gospel is read after that. i like the last gospel reading, but it is not a part of the mass.
Pope Innocent III 1198-1216
Innocent called the Fourth Crusade, which was diverted to Constantinople. The pope excommunicated the Crusaders who attacked Christian cities, but he made no move to halt or overturn their actions because he felt that the Latin presence would bring about a reconciliation between the Eastern and Western Churches. Innocent also ordered a crusade against the Albigenses, which successfully subdued the Cathar heresy in France but at a great cost in life and blood.
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy," (Rev. 19:10).
1 Corinthians 14:5 "He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."
In the Tridentine mass the Priest is the celebrant AND reads the Gospel and Epistle !
what is the musical piece on this video ?
As to this video, it omits many things that are common between the structures of the two forms of Mass. IMHO, it focuses on the wrong things that make the EF vastly superior.
I personally believe:
The Altar should be lined: Tabernacle, cross, candles, table, etc. on the center of the church.
The priest to use the Cope and the Amice
Facing the Faithful
Local Language
Incense on Sacraments, Solemnities, Funerals, Thanksgiving and Sunday
Asperges Me
Lectern
Traditional Vessels, Baroque (ex.) not modern
All Solemn Ceremonies in Latin
what's the music?
Mentioned on the desc. Sincerely...
@@abcdefghi3043 ok
the anathema did not refer to future popes authorizing changes to the mass. the codification of the mass at trent and the anathema on changing any parts was in direct response to the protestant reformation and the heretical teachings of the reformers that were leading to changing the liturgy.
I like the old style mass but that's just a personal preference. It was originally in Greek, actually, but changed to Latin (excepting the Kyrie) so it could be understood by the Romans who didn't know Greek. And many elements of the Tridentine Mass are just that, Tridentine. They don't date back further than the 1500's, and many medieval parts were suppressed at Trent.
Well said
You're welcome
@priest008 Sorry to hear that, been there, done that. But it comes a moment that you cannot digest the silliness anymore. I stopped going to church altogether, just praying at home. Thank God, there was a SSPX parish at 1 hour from here, hesitant at first and alert, I came to know the Mass of the ages, and there is no comparison among them . No turning back to the novus disorder for me , friend, they claim they are the same, but no way in this world!!
The Tridentine can't be practiced in some churches because of the way the church is built. My church has the pews facing each other, and a large aisle between them. The altar, a baptismal pool (yes, pool), and the priest's chair are in that aisle. Basically, the Nave and sanctuary are the same, then the tabernacle is in a totally different room. How would a traditional mass be practiced in such a space?
The first part of your comment seems to suggest that the building doesn't matter at all but then you say, "a building is a place where faithful assemble to worship and revere God Almighty". I'm confused. Do you think the building matters or not? If it does, then what structural characteristics would best be conducive to worship and reverence to God Almighty?
but the Mass is a Holy Sacrifice, that is why the prist must face Christ in the altar, not the congregation
The Greek tenses of John 20:23 make it clear that the apostles were authorized only to announce the terms of forgiveness, and that upon the basis of God’s previous appointment. Literally, the text suggests: “Those whose sins you forgive, have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive, have not already been forgiven.” verbs are in the perfect tense. The perfect tense verbs imply an abiding state which commenced before the action of the aorists.
OK, no labels then. Simple question: If I can demonstrate using the Bible, history, and logic that your position is incorrect, will you change your mind, yes or no? The point of debating is to convince the other person of one's argument. If, out of hand, you refuse, then there's no point in casting pearls before swine.
In my country I can't even know if this exists. You're lucky