The paradox of charming character flaws
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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Frieren's characters are deceptively charming. It was one of the more pleasant surprises of the show and I think it's one of the main reasons Frieren works as well as it does. I think a major component of this success is based off of the way they navigate character flaws.
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00:00 Intro
00:37 Part 1
01:34 Part 2
02:53 Part 3
05:14 Ep 4 Synopsis
06:06 Faults
#frieren #anime #pey - Krátké a kreslené filmy
The moment that hooked me on Frieren was when she got so happy to reveal Stark’s birthday gift to Fern. The simple, goofy, smug pride she showed was priceless
I totally agree that she feels like she's in her 20's (really happy to see other people with that sentiment) and I find that to be extremely refreshing and engaging. Does not come off as the typical goofy teenage anime character at all. Mature in ways and immature in others. And all the more fitting for a 20's something character to be going on this journey of self discovery and how you want to live.
Personally, I've come to see her as in her early 20s, maybe a bit younger, seeing how adolescent she acts sometimes, but her heavy past made her mature more quickly and imperfectly
It's refreshing to not have the tired old argument that "Frieren is just another 1000 year old demon loli lmao". Whose only real "concrete" argument is comparing her to Kraft, and setting an expectation that elves age linearly and go through the same journeys of maturity as humans - a notion which shatters the moment we meet Serie.
More importantly, as far as the trip of learning how to live in the present moment goes, the story itself just... doesn't work if Frieren is still a teenager.
I really appreciate the world building reasons as to why Frieren can be a thousand year old elf, but still have flaws. As for ep4, on my rewatch I really enjoyed the moral of the beach cleaning and sunrise. It may not be that crazy of an idea, but the delivery with likable characters really elevates it imo. Love the series!
It's important to note that Frieren was an orphan. Flamme took her in after her village was massacred by demons & she was basically still a child then. Even in the story's present-day, Kraft, who is many thousands of years older & appears to be approaching early middle age (for an elf) regards her as being a youngster. I think that many of these traits, like sleeping in, come from her still being basically an adolescent
Calling Frieren a "26 year old" couldn't be more accurate. She dead on feels like she would be at that point in her life. I love these videos, keep 'em coming.
Thing about flaws is that they, like everything else, have to be well considered. New writers often stumble out of "perfect characters doing perfect things" ditch and steer right into the other ditch on the side of the road - that of useless, spineless, rotten, cowardly dumpster fire characters that cannot reasonably function at all without years of therapy. "Oh, look at all these faults and flaws, aren't they so relatable?" thinks the budding writer. But such characters are just as bad if not worse than the do-nothing-wrong types. Neither are good for story, but where a flawless character has no stakes in their story, a flawed dumpster fire character cannot conceivably have payoffs to any of their arcs, because they're just so useless that any success seems accidental or gifted by the writer.
And indeed, often enough these "flawed" dumpster characters get the One Special Trick at the end of episode one or two that suddenly makes their flaws meaningless and voila, the budding writer has figured out how to have their cake and eat it too! Unbelievable character growth in one writing session, and the rest of the story they can do cool things while occasionally the writer can wag the finger to any criticism and say "oh yeah this character is actually super flawed really so them being so strong is just overcoming their flaws". See just about every isekai ever for examples.
That is why Frieren has such great characters. Every single one of them, first of all, is baseline competent. They're not the best at everything, but they are all good at something that's important in the story, and that means that every time you see them, you know they are going to progress the story. They will come across obstacles, yes, but their strengths will get them through somehow, while all their flaws are then the natural shortcomings of others expectations and there is a tension between the two.
Eisen and Stark are both incredibly powerful warriors, but they're also deeply scared before every battle, and so must first win it in their own minds before the physical victory can follow. And they are afraid, because each know all too well what it means to lose everything - so they put incredible pressure on themselves to succeed. Frieren and Fern are both incredibly powerful mages, but each have a different kind of emotional immaturity to them, which affects their favored magic types and the creates the gaps in each mage's skill. Frieren prioritized hiding above all else, so she's adept at concealing mana, but flawed in controlling the flow of her own because she completely neglected the fundamentals of magic for a millenium. Fern is orderly and dependable, but also fussy and unable to put her frustrations to words, and so her magic is very tried and tested and polished, but she never dares to experiment on her own without someone else's approval.
Even the all-mighty Serie is a flawed old lady living in an ivory tower, unable to process her own loss of her best and brightest student, trying to cope away Flamme being right about her approach to magic by just focusing on teaching combat monsters because that's what she knows best.
All these flaws come from their personalities and character. All these traits are mental hang-ups each character has, that are then amplified by their skills and proficiencies and naturally create gaps in those skills stemming from that flaw. The narrative tension in each episode is then the fact that we know that these characters are strong, we know they can do it - we're just witnessing them wrestle their inner demons first, before they make a paste of the actual demons in the story itself.
I don't have time to read this all right now. but that first paragraph is hilarious. I think I agree? lmaoo
Coincidentally, this episode also showcases where Fern gets her inability to deal with frustration from - as the old priest Heiter never raised his voice in anger, just passive-aggressively clicked his tongue. Indeed, why was Heiter such a drunkard in the first place, if not to be able to somehow cope with his inability to put his frustrations to voice? In his later years, Heiter kicked his habit, but hardly changed otherwise, so naturally, that's what Fern has learned as the proper way of expressing frustration - bottle it in and not let it be shown, just like her foster-father Heiter did. It's also why she's so adept at taking care of Frieren in a comically motherly fashion, because that kind of care for an elderly, nearly bed-ridden parent figure is what she knows best.
And similarly, Eisen is now deeply religious and we first see his current day self praying before lovingly crafted gravestones. Perhaps it is how he learned to deal with his guilt of not being able to protect his family, and maybe it's a way for him to ease his fears and deal with his occasional mistake like with Stark - but it's no coincidence that he seems to mirror to Frieren what Heiter had said in the past. It's not just that they were pen pals - it's that he has clearly read and re-read those letters so much that some of Heiter's character has absorbed into him. It wouldn't be too surprising that even taking in Stark was his way of emulating his dear friend's good example.
All this to say - look how much mileage can come out of such simple flaws. Look how multi-faceted they make the characters when you contrast them to that central mental hang-up each character has, despite otherwise being competent, admirable, powerful. When you give character a flaw, always consider how it impacts everything they do and think and how they try to deal with them. That way, these flaws gain so much more meaning and become a natural source of character interactions and narrative tension, than if one were just to add flaws from a checklist and call it a day.
"What will you have after 500 years!?" my childish personality
Think Frieren Think
Frieren's dislike of cold weather is very funny as her name is literally '(to feel) cold'.
Wow, 😮 how many details did the writers think about?
@@NoidoDev ah, now now. You might be shocked by this one. Their party (Frieren party) is on journey to going to place called Auerole or Heaven and....do you know what Himmel translated to English ? Himmel translate to Sky, it also used for describe Heaven.
All of the characters' names are related to their personality or goals. Fern means 'far away', which probably relates to the far away rock she was trying to hit as a child. Ubel (or Übel) is sick/evil, Lawine is avalanche, Stark is strong. Sein means to be, as he has to learn to exist in the here and now, and not in the past. It's really cool
@@NoidoDev with the exception of Gorilla Warrior, all of the character names are German words which describe the character. Storieswithstyle is a German CZcamsr who has a lovely 3hr long video going into all of the names in the first 16 episodes.
The author's knowledge of German is pretty good it seems.
@@zwiebeldogs what about Gorilla Warrior? 😆
For what I underestand she is like a old adolescent but with alot of experiencie behind, after all, years have accumulated. This is a big difference that shows when other elfs come to play along
I love this weekly series that you're creating. I find it very clever to use each episode of the series to explore different elements that make up a good narrative.
I’m glad you decided to make this video about Friren, instead of the obvious choice most might make, like Stark.
the great thing ahbout this show is that he could have made this video about each and every character in the show. for you the obvious choice would have been stark. i immidiatly thought of heiter the drunken priest. but the video could have been about fern eisen and even himmel himself. the other side characters of the later arcs share this way of writing aswell. its one thing to have 1 or two greatly written characters but frieren manages to give every character on screen this level of detail (ecepts background characters obviously... there is such a thing as to much detail )
@@tobiasweber2517 Another obvious choice can fern but hey the list can go on in this anime
Yep this would work with lots of characters… Serie would be another great example.
Apart from the writing, the other key elements that make Frieren charming is the art, animation and voice acting. I’ve read the manga, and all the people involved in the anime, seem to have added their own little touches to bring out and strengthen charm of the main character. I applaud the adaptation skills of the people working on this. A topic for a future video perhaps?
This anime its a full graduation of being a human and selfredemption. Hits hard emotionally, teach us the preciless of little things, take our heart out if the mouth with so goddam platonic romance, we cheers in the moments of Joy and be full of adrenaline when the action comes. Its so well written that make us all feel inside this wonderful world. Your videos are the frieren fridays of my weak, i miss the show so much and you with your magistic work can bring New contents to add the feelings about the anime. Thank you! You are blessed!
Please don't apologize for being sick. Thank you for the wonderful video, and take care of yourself.
Excellent observation. Flaws and mistakes are what humans do all the time. Frieren is endearing because she does make some serious mistakes. One very public mistake was after the defeat of Aura. Graf Granat invites her to stay with him for as long as she likes. But for some, unknown reason, Frieren is hasty, and wants to get going, so she takes her party on to the road into the Schwer mountains with Winter approaching. All the time she lectures Fern and Stark about how dangerous these mountains are in Winter. Of course she and her party get caught in a major Blizzard, and themselves are in danger of perishing if they do not find shelter. She remembers a cabin from 80 years ago in the foothills, and is lucky to find it still there where she meets another Elf, Kraft. This was an absolutely thoughtless decision and a major mistake on her part!!! Reminds me of the Donner Party attempting to cross the Sierra-Nevadas in Winter (1846-1847). Same mistake.
bro i’ve been watching ur vids without connecting the dots that ur the musician 🤦♂️ they’re so well made keep it up 👍
4:25 "which is maybe me projecting cuz I'm 26" same XD that's me on my last therapy session while I was talking about this anime
I found the whole Frieren playlist a couple days ago. I have no idea how this only has 20,000 views. Very good videos!
Frieren has changed my whole out look on how a fancy word is written, and your videos of the show is making me love it even more then i did.
I love Frieren due to its approach on story telling. It's about the journey, but that journey is different for everyone. It's not simply going to the night big location, and fighting something strong. Frierans journey is more of self discovery. She's learning about herself, and trying to understand the people around her. As someone who struggles to understand people, I relate to her this way. I dont see the beauty in things. Meteor shower? Sunrise of the ocean? I'd be kind of bored to. Now that I'm pushing 30 and lost just about everyone in my life, I'm starting to understand the value of the moments shared with them. Who you're with is the most important part of the journey, and ideally, most people will realize this before it's too late. Her relationship with Fern shows that Frieran still has a lot to learn, and although Frieran is Ferns master they're both teaching eachother valuable skills. She feels human, shows weakness, and has different values than most anime protagonists that seem copy and pasted between animes.
I have saved your Frieren series in my phone and watch it whenever I'm idle. It's relaxing and meditative, and informative too.😍👍
One of the things I like best about elves in general in this series is that Frieren looks just a LITTLE bit older than she did a thousand years ago. Physically, she's still literally like fourteen tops and often acts like it. And eventually, assuming she lives long enough, she'll actually be an adult in elf terms. None of that stuff where the long lived species ages like a human until they're twenty and then remain perfect and pretty forever. She ages, just REALLY slowly.
The story as a whole really does do the 'it's not about the destination, it's about the journey' thing very well because almost all of the writing focus is on how the characters change and develop over time. What they're actually trying to accomplish in the long term is not really important in itself, if at all, but only about what it means to them personally.
the easyest to grasp "paradoxes" which come to mind
this elf is NOT a baby
This is one of my favorites chap
Not in the episode mentioned but when it was revealed that Frieren stops detecting mana when she casts a spell was a great way to humble an OP character. When this was discovered by the other characters they where wondering why she never fixed a basic problem for low level magicians and she says "I've never been good about it" in embarrassment.
Keep making these videos, these have been the best video essays on frieren, and I’ve been so obsessed I’ve watched it twice in a month
The older you get, the more you realize that age has little to do with how people are. The way people carry themselves is mostly built on experiences and Frieren fits the bill perfectly. I find Frieren perfectly believable.
This screenshot right here is why they are Frieren and Fern are alike but different
2:41
1:35 I'd argue that's also the problem with a lot of isekai series being written these days as well. The ones were the main character is either so painfully ordinary while simultaneously being the most powerful being existence from day 1 or so painfully edgy they could cut paper with their very presence while simultaneously being the most powerful being existence from day 1. Both character archetypes are meant to be self inserts for the reader/viewer while simultaneously being a wish fulfillment of being so amazing that everyone falls at the self insert character's feet and praises them for their inherent awesomeness.
But ironically because the characters are meant to be self inserts they often don't have many if any character flaws. They're not really supposed to stand out because the reader's supposed to see themselves as this character. But ironically that's precisely why so many isekai heroes feel kind of interchangeable. Because in a way, they are. And the storie's they tell often wind up being kind of forgettable as well because they often wind up being a conga line of "This season's flavor of flawless and OP hero effortlessly succeeding at everything they do." By being "the best" these characters ironically all wind up feeling the same.
And I think that's part of why Frieren has stuck with people so well. She's powerful yes, but she also has flaws and quirks. She's not a bland self insert, she's a character in her own right with hopes and dreams and struggles. And that actually makes her stand out, in no small part because even though she's not a self insert she's still identifiable because many of us can see one or more of her quirks in ourselves. Who hasn't wanted to sleep in, or has a problem dealing with the cold, or been a loot goblin in a dungeon crawler? And how many of us have dealt with deep loss or regret at some point in our lives? She's her own character, but she's a character many of us can see a bit of ourselves in.
It's actually kind of ironic that so many of these self insert fantasy/isekai heroes are written to be self insert characters without real flaws, but at the end of the day it's the character with flaws we can sympathize with and a journey to overcome that in a way actually seems more identifiable to us
I am looking forward to your next videos on Frieren SOOO MUCH.
Amazing work on the ones youve done so far (watched and like them all)
glad i found your channel! love your content and style
She's definitely in her 20s, Serie is in her 70s or 80s and kraft somewhere in the middle
love your content man
Such great videos!
Why u love frieren as a character? The answer is simple enough, she's silly and eepy 😂
The other two elves we meet treat Frieren as a child, particularly a young teenager, so she might still be one from her racial development point of view.
Of course only one of those elves actually acts mature, so ymmv
Frieren is an awesome show / manga. I hope that the anime gets another season ❤
Humans irl and characters are flawed but then theres Himmel
Himmel had a few flaws here and there like him being obsessed with his statue and calling himself handsome every now and then. Still these flaws aren't big enough to make him any less of a ideal hero
@mdtaj7563 A flaw not many seem to realize he has is actually his overly huge Empathy. I'm not saying it's a bad trait, opposite really, but there are instances of it bringing harm. Ep7 gave us a flashback of Himmel's first encounter with a demon, and him falling for its word manipulation like most people dua to empathy, despite Frieren's warning him against it. It's the first time in the whole series we saw him expressing regret and bitterness for his own judgment.
People have flaws, and its okay to have flaw.
Good video overall..wud come bak nxt week
Yes flaws are what make charracters interesting. That is why a character like Asuka who is deeply flawed character is so beloved in her fanbase.
Frieren wants to know when she's gonna start to fill out...
The character with the most charming flaw must be rudeus greyrat 😤🤗
Frieren is a cinnamon roll :3
How do you explain charm of perfect characters like Übel
How am I just realizing this channel is the same pey as the musician?
Haha yeah. People stumble into that realization a lot and it's always pretty fun
Flaws make us human. How do you make a hero likable? The hero has to be strong to overcome adversity but power makes people distant, especially if everything about them is perfect. There needs to be some deficiencies to balance this appearance. If a personality can be constructed that will counterbalance physical or mental prowess, a character will appear less threatening. This counterbalancing can be physical, mental, by personality or a simple weak spot like a McGuffin. It is part of the ancient heroes story to have one or more flaws like Hercules who is easily enraged and killed his family or Achilles and Sigurd who had weak spots in their skin which in made them die to "some normal guy" in the crowd. It shows the limits of power, turning heroes into humans instead of gods.
The biggest difference between an older person and a young person is a deteriorating body. Thats it. People generally are the same people they were in highschool but age limits what they can do.
looooovvvveee this videos 🥹
I don't think she lived thousands of years, only more than thousand. And that means she's the equivalent of somewhere between 10 to 18 in Elven years.
Gintoki sakati, orihime inoue
Bro thinks of freiren before kronk, or kuwabara, or Gintoki, or the genie? Freiren? Ehh ok
Frieren has some great plot in it, you just rarely see it because of those long skirts ... OK, I'll get me coat.
Frieren is lazy because there is always tomorrow. There will always be latter, until there isn't.
bro said peak of youth is 26 nah unc you is old
lmaooo fair
I've been thinking about this idea of Flawed characters a lot particularly since I watched "Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation".
I'm going to avoid spoilers, because I'd be interested to hear you're thoughts on it however please feel free to stop reading this whenever you want if you haven't seen it yet and want to just go in blind/watch it with as little information as possible which is what I suggest.
Its a fantastic story and I feel the writing is incredible and visually its breathtaking and every single character feels like a real flesh and blood person with incredibly well written flaws. My and a lot of other people's biggest issue with the main character flaws however. My partner had to stop watching and I know it gets mixed reviews which i completely understand because even though i love the show and highly recommend it my feelings on it are quite "mixed"
Going a little more into detail, I will still avoid spoilers but I highly recommend you come back to this comment after watching the first few episodes.
I also find this surprising because I stopped watching Seven deadly sins and Konosuba because I hated the flaws of the main characters, I suspect it was just the level of writing/directing and/or the fact im not the target audience, but im not sure without going back and watching them again. I am also seriously struggling with the characters flaws in the Light Novel (or at least the English Audiobook) I remember feeling a certain way when watching the anime and it feels worse when listening to the audiobook.
These characters flaws take me right out of the story completely breaking my Immersion because I need a moment to collect myself and yet I was able to see the potential where my partner wasn't (in the anime, in the audiobook I can't see it and would stop if it wasn't for my love of the anime).
But please I'd love to hear you're thoughts on this subject some more. Subscribed.
I lovin' the series!
I learn an opposite concept called Mary Sue. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue