Crash of a Cessna 172S Skyhawk SP at Addison Airport (ADS/KADS), Addison, Texas (August 18, 2018)
Vložit
- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- On August 18, 2018, about 1500 central daylight time, a Cessna 172S airplane, N893JA, was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident near Addison, Texas. The pilot and two passengers were seriously injured. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 discovery flight.
The pilot reported that, shortly after departing on a discovery flight, the airplane began veering left. He applied right rudder and aileron; however, the airplane continued to veer left. He recalled hearing the stall warning horn and stated that he lowered the nose and adjusted the trim, but the airplane continued in a nose-down position and impacted the ground.
A video of the accident flight showed the airplane in a high- pitch attitude shortly after takeoff, followed by the left wing dropping and a rapid descent, consistent with an aerodynamic stall. Given that the pilot had just taken off, there was insufficient altitude to recover from the stall.
The airplane sustained substantial damage to the fuselage, wings, and empennage. A postaccident examination did not reveal any evidence of a preimpact failure or malfunction that would have precluded normal operation. The examination revealed a flap setting of 30°. Weight and balance calculations determined that the airplane was loaded about 138 lbs over its maximum gross weight, which, in combination with the flap setting during takeoff, would have adversely affected the airplane's climb rate. In an attempt to maintain a positive rate of climb, the pilot inadvertently exceeded the airplane's critical angle of attack and aerodynamically stalled the airplane.
- Probable Cause: The pilot's improper flap setting for takeoff and subsequent exceedance of the airplane's critical angle of attack, which resulted in an aerodynamic stall. Contributing was the overgross state of the airplane.
- Report:
data.ntsb.gov/...
- Docket:
data.ntsb.gov/...
From the brief video alone, you could easily see this crash was all pilot error causing a stall (or stall/spin just didn’t have enough altitude for the first rotation to occur). I really hope when the pilot sees the crash video he reevaluates his choice to continue flying. Nobody deserves to be a student of his because it’s just way too risky if he couldn’t see what was happening with the plane before he stalled it. At least he should not be allowed to teach anyone until he undergoes remedial training to overcome his deficiencies. I’m so happy that everyone on board survived. That’s a real blessing.
What remedial training after his pax sue him for 10 million dollars for gross negligence.
Seems the plane was carring a lot of weight. Requiring you to have a shallow t/o till you burn fuel and weight off. You can not do full load, full fuel and go like a 182.
Flaps 30, 100+ pounds over weight, and the absolute refusal to lower the nose. What was the instructor thinking?! Guy should not be a pilot
You for got, Texas in August. What about density altitude?
@@erictaylor5462 Field elevation @ KADS is 645' with a 7200' runway. DA is not really a factor for summer flights here.
And calm winds!
So were there 3 pob or 4?
Not sure how can be so far overweight with 3
@@leigh6113 They were obese.
Damn, that did not look survivable. Also, 10 degrees is max for takeoff...you're going nowhere with 30 degrees flaps.
/s. Excuse me. You are 100% wrong. He went somewhere, straight down.
Except for soft/short field, zero flaps is recommended. With that much runway, there should have been no problem doing so.
Could where they hit have saved them?
With plenty of hard surface runway and no obstacles at the far end, the POH probably recommended 0 degrees of flap.
So why was flap 30 used ? Simple - he thought that with all that weight a little bit of extra ‘ lift ‘ might be necessary. It wasn’t.
If an a/c can climb out of ground effect, then its lift equals its weight and the latter goes down as fuel is burned.
From then on angle of climb/descent depends only on excess thrust (thrust - drag ). So the less drag ( flap ) , the better.
What probably happened was, he pitched up to the angle which he usually used for flaps zero or 10 , or even greater than that, and that angle was sufficient to stall him.
I flew a Cessna that had 40 degrees of flaps available. That's a lot of Flaps. Especially if you didn't want to land on the front wheel.
You have to you have to really work hard to stall a 172 on takeoff like that.
And this guy put in all that work, no need for flaps on a 172 take-off.
@@dwaynemcallister7231yep and flaps actually push the tail down making everything worse
@@jonasbaine3538 Sort of. Sometimes. If you put in the flaps flying straight and level, the nose rises before it drops. But trim overcomes that.
No, you don't have to be working harder, just being totally brainless, same as all the can't even write cursive Gen Xers.
Obviously wasn’t monitoring his speed and maintaining it. I used to flight instruct and have had many years of pro flying. Whenever a guy would climb to steeply with a slow speed I would tell them to lower the nose, watch your speed in such a harsh way he’d never forget.
That crash probably has about a
I just saw something earlier today that stated stalls under 1000 ft have an 80% fatality rate. I think it was for landing though. Unsure about take off stats. I know this is semi unrelated but it's still interesting
@@victoriarees4540 that’s believable. The closer you get to the ground obviously it’s a little more survivable. Anyway, this case is insane. I don’t get how one can survive it
Tool.... trained by other tools. They're becoming legion now.
Notice how the "pilot" avoided using the word stall? Admission of guilt. He knows dam well what happened.
Damn. Dam is something a beaver builds.
@@atlaswest U R rite
From the looks of that flight, he was never taught what a stall is. He certainly didn't react to it like he should have.
Perfectly executed full flap takeoff to departure stall and spin entry procedure... 😬. The 'bawls' of the "instructor" pilot to even try to circumvent the obvious high angle of attack, low airspeed, stall & spin entry, then to explain using right aileron and trim to attempt recovery is the icing on the cake of absurdity.
Anyone who has ever done a go-around/balked landing knows that it takes a surprising amount of forward elevator to prevent the nose from rising sharply upward.
Being over max gross weight just adds to the negligence. Ironic that he admits to having put the flaps all the way down TWICE during the preflight, but apparently missing the flaps check during his pre-takeoff checklist. Even a CIGARS style checklist would have caught full flaps being extended. Reciting a checklist without actually doing each step is just complacency.
The worst part besides being entirely avoidable is that the two passengers paying for the "skyline tour" were badly injured. They will likely never fly in a small plane again. Gives private pilots, instructors and general aviation a bad look, even though this "pilot" violated all kinds of basic flight rules and procedures while claiming to have adhered to them all.
I really don’t think there are any words which are either needed or appropriate here. Some things just boggle the mind…
So true
Interesting how the pilot’s account kept referring to what the plane did. The plane behaved exactly as expected. The problem is what the pilot did.
Pilot stated the airplane kept veering to the left. That wasn't veering, that was rolling. He caused it but didn't know how he got into it or what to do about it. The guy simply doesn't know how to fly.
Gravity is suspected of playing a major role in this accident.
There should be a warning in the 172 flight manual...that the 172 will not climb with flaps down.
I got almost bit by that something on a go around.. As soon as the airspeed started dropping I dropped the nose... you can't use Educated Wish's to keep flying..
Of all the places I thought I'd see a Deadpool reference, it wasn't here. lol. Well done.
CP 55 yrs here:
I learned to never use flaps except to get INTO very short fields.
You can get in, but you cant get out.
MOST pilots ive flown with never learned how to land.
Great comment 👍
You are right. My Taylorcraft never needs flaps. It has none. Yet l have never had any problems flying in the Utah Rockies. Hard to overload because it has no luggage space.
I flight instructed for over a decade all I can say is wow
I thought no one was going to survive that but, according to the report, the plane had “seatbelt airbags”. I’m sure those are expensive but they paid for themselves on that flight
They always refer to these accidents as a stall. It was a spin. Yes it stalled, but when one wing dropped it was starting a spin, a so-called incipient spin. Just didn’t have enough height to complete a full rotation. Reading the pilot’s account, he didn’t do the proper recovery technique. He says he applied right rudder AND aileron. Opposite rudder, yes … opposite aileron, never. There is always the temptation to try and pick up the dropping wing with aileron input. However, adding right aileron drops the left aileron, creating more drag on the left side, that is not compensated by drag on the raised right aileron (because the wing is stalled and had very little apparent wind above the wing.) Applying opposite aileron just aggravates the spin. These accidents make it clear that spin training should be part of the private pilot training curriculum in the US (just as it is in most other countries.) We have it drilled into us to kick in the opposite rudder and hold neutral ailerons. The rudder when acting alone and use aggressively, is very powerful, especially on a Cessna. A good exercise is to get configured for slow flight and just use the rudder to keep the aircraft level, even rocking the wings back and forth, with just the rudder and never applying any aileron. This is a skill used in glider training and taildragger check outs. Too many power pilots simply don’t learn how to use their feet!
There is such thing as a wing drop in a stall. Doesn’t mean it will go into a spin.
This guy was a CFI, he had spin training.
Why does a private pilot need spin training? It’s better to teach him how to avoid them all together.
Should we teach pilots how to fly through a thunderstorm? Or do we teach how to avoid a thunderstorm. 🤷🏻♂️
The most dangerous flight is when you go flying with your best friends. Constant joking and heckling by your friends are extreme distractions and strip away your concentration and removes the sterile cockpit. This will make any pilot lose focus, skip procedures and checklists. I have a special ritual when I fly with my "dumb" friends which includes minimal talking once we are at touch distance to the airplane. Once in the plane I am the only one who can talk and they are only allowed to answer my questions with "yes" or "no". The restriction is lifted after I say so....usually after we leave the pattern. Same goes with landings in reverse.
I'm not a pilot or anything but I find it hard to focus when driving if there are 2 or 3 passengers yapping. I can easily imagine this making it very hard to focus on the myriad of things pilots need to keep an eye on.
And yet, he failed to set the flaps properly, may not have set the elevator trim to the takeoff position, and didn't control his airspeed. And if you want to stall the left wing, give it right aileron as it's about to stall. You must keep the ailerons centered when you're about to stall, and lower the nose.
Within the first few seconds of this video I heard the AOA going off in my headphones...Angle... Angle... Push... Push...
Imagine that being your first discovery flight.
I am just a PPL and working on my instrument rating add on. How does this dumb stuff keep happening? Honestly I do (small) stupid stuff all the time. I do find faults in my procedures. But by the time I am at the hold short line, OR the final approach fix I have been able to trap them always.
Flaps 30? Over gross weight? Man the lawyers are gonna make out big time. Sorry for all three but that pilot's career is done and that is sad too. Hope they all recover from that seemingly unsurvivable stall spin crash.
Man, I'm a PPL too and read these reports and think how does this happen.
@@scottbeyer101 Agree. I’ve had my PPL for threes and have over 500 hours on my 150 and rented Skyhawks and Cherokees. I obsess about issues like this every time I preflight and take off. These mistakes will get you killed fast. I think some people have the risk aversion instincts to fly safe and others are just screwing around and relying on luck.
During climbout veers left and close to stall speed, if right aileron goes up and left aileron goes down to level wings, the left wing stall and will drop...
Actually a departure. Once the rotation is established and the wing remains stalled, it’s a spin
These kids are playing with Microsoft Flight Simulator Airbusses and Boeings, monitoring altitude restrictions while the computer flies the simulated airplane - and think they know how to fly. This is the result.
"Took off as normal, rotated, Suddenly started to veer to the left" .......So this was a normal takeoff? The disturbing thing is he doesn't appear to recognize that his aircraft steeply pitched up after rotate. The left turning tendency at takeoff power, should have come as no surprise when the aircraft is placed near or beyond stall angle of attack. While this may have come about from a failed pre take-off check (flaps unintentionally full), a nose high condition at, or just after lift off, particularly in a low performance airplane, should be immediately corrected. It doesn't appear the pilot pushed forward till after the stall. He teaches students but has he learned to fly himself??? Glad they all survived.
‘Look at me im flying!!(almost)’
Damn. So sorry. Better instructions & more respect (unless a tech issue).
All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up. He got himself into a slow flight, reverse control regime. A man's got to know his and his plane's limitations.
30°flaps, huh, 100 or so lbs overweight, in the heat of the day, Aug at 4 pm, zoom climb that ran out of energy, nose high slow flight, losing altitude and afraid to push the nose over to break out of slow flight and finally rolling in right aileron to raise stalling left wing, signed, sealed and delivered. Future airline pilots, I think I'll take the car, thank you.
There are so many of these wannabes around; fake it till you make it in aviation, is deadly.
In my early days of flight training I was practicing touch and go's (C-172) and the only sole on board. I had my flaps and trim set for landing (don't recall the exact setting) and after touch down I throttled up to go around and completely forgot to retract the flaps and set trim for take off. When the plane lifted the nose up pressure was extream! I was man handling the yoke to keep the nose down and wondering "what was happening?" Then I realized my mistake. That event scared me half to death. I never made that mistake again and it's been 45 years.
My instructor talked (yelled) me through a full flap go around in a 172. The force required to keep the nose down was impressive. One of the best lessons I ever had.
Well, at least you weren’t flying barefoot,even if your instructor was ! /s
I did the same thing as a solo student. Landed with full flaps and just hit the throttle, whoa, nose high, full throttle and jolted😮 I realized what I'd done and reacted by retracting flaps and the plane just settled down on the runway, from about 5-10 ft, just a nice soft landing. Pulled the throttle back and turned off the active. While I back taxied it gave me some time to take a breath and review and reflect what I just f'd up.
The handbook permits takeoffs with 30% of flaps when over gross weight ONLY if the JATO option is installed.
Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect
If flaps were all the way down and very nose high attitude, that's a recipe for a stall and wing over into the ground.Despite the pilot saying flaps were up. Those high wing Cessnas have very effective flaps!!
The stupidity in the general aviation world amazes me; no instructor is dumb enough to let this happen
But this instructor did this himself.
@@bmoulas He should now be a former instructor; the FAA needs to ground him forever
lol YT keeps suspending with right to comment for making statements like yurs. Fuk YT. 1st amendment guarantees free speech for all.......
Wanna bet.
Ive flown with 10,000 pilots that were beyond unsafe.
What do I know, Ive only got 4,000
@@hotrodray6802 So you are saying every 15 minutes of your short flying career you have flown with a different pilot ?🤣
The middle of the afternoon in the middle of August in Texas. I start thinking of density altitude also. A Cessna 172 is essentially a very good 2 place aircraft that under limited conditions can carry a third passenger. With that third passenger it becomes unforgiving unless those limiting conditions are carefully observed.
And full tanks
When I flew three the passengers always ended up in the back due to weight and balance
What's with the sudden uptick in these "it doesn't want to fly so I'm gonna force it and try and peel the damn thing off the ground" incidents lately?
And 6 years ago like this one 😅
@@Plutogalaxy I'm seriouly so very sorry for my lack of observation and apparent lack of knowledge. There's seemingly been a ton of these popping up in my feed lately......perhaps change in algorithm but I guess I'm just too damn stupid to be commenting on anything so thank you for whipping my dumb ass I'm back into line. I really am sorry for bothering you and I'm so very terribly sorry for making an observation that should obviously be left to the experts like you that we are so very blessed to have here in the CZcams comments section to tell all of us pissants how things really work in life. Thank you so very much for your enlightened comment and filling me in on the subject so that maybe someday I may "have a clue" and perhaps if I work harder and get good grades with any hope I can be 1/1000 as smart as you on the subject of aviation.
@@tonyf9076 My bad how dare I make a mistake 🙄😱🤪
@@sebrofc you naughty naughty boy...😂
The accident rate has been declining for decades. You just keep seeing them because you are looking for them.
Power on stall. Pretty simple. If the flaps were down, the die was cast. And if overweight, a triple whammy.
It's a tragedy for the friends and family but at the same time? What the F is wrong with people nowadays?the cognitive decline is massive.
I’m not even a pilot and I could recognize from the climb angle he had the flaps set wrong. Simulator computer games teach you that as one of the basics.
Pilot either is in denial that he made mistakes or doesn’t know he made mistakes. I don’t know which is worse.
If my references are correct, the pilot is now flying for a commercial airline. Not everyone who has an accident should be eliminated from the field; the best learn from their mistakes and become the best pilots.
I hope you're kidding, on multiple points.
A Regional airline?
Qualifying written Exam:
Spell…Pilot.
Answer:
‘Pie…laut’
“WELCOME ABOARD!
Here’s your Captains stripes”🤭
This is the sort of "mistake" that crosses a line as to whether the person really should be flying at all.
There are no words, accept, TAKE AWAY HIS FLIGHT CERTIFICATE!!!!
He couldn't even properly evaluate this crash!? He has no skill as a pilot not to mention an instructor and no right to be flying!!! No way! NO F WAY!
30 degrees of flaps on takeoff? He must’ve forgotten to retract them after the preflight.
That would have been obvious as he brought the pax over. At the same time if it was somehow inadvertently deployed as they were taxing out.. You would hear the noise of the motor. Strange one.
Lets not forget it also gets real hot out there in Texas, wonder of density altitude also played a factor here.
Pilot error and pilot error. That’s it.
Why are you taking off with flaps at 30? Pretty sure nothing in the POH calls for that setting at take off.
His handwriting (and spelling) says a lot IMO. Besides, he's clearly lying, which also says a lot too. He should have his license permanently revoked (if I were one of the passengers I'd put a seious effort into making that happen).
The report says "The examination revealed a flap setting of 30 degrees", not that the flaps were actually at 30 degrees. It didn't look like it in the photo or the video, although it's not clear. Clearly he stalled, but I don't see how he would have even gotten that far and high with 30 degrees of flaps on that aircraft at over MTOW.
Full flap take off????
138lbs OVER GROSS???????
I’m surprised he got it high enough to crash at all.
Someone take his cert. that’s just an incredibly scary thing to know someone that daft is out giving rides.
I guess this pilot felt it was impressive to rotate as quickly as he could like someone was timing him.
Striker, that was the worst landing in the history of this airport.
amazing what the human body can survive..
There's at least one other crash i know of where the pilot forgot to check his flaps and tried to take off with full flaps and stalled just after liftoff, killing all on board.
How did he ever get 350 hours in a Cessna 172? By that amount of time, the engine run up and pre-takeoff checklist should be engrained in his head. He would NEVER take off with full flaps. Something sounds very fishy. Falsified log book? Where are these pilots getting their certificates from? CG was within limits, maybe? What about max weight? That’s important, too. At what airspeed did the plane become airborne? Did he ever look at the airspeed? The video doesn’t lie, though.
MAN ON A DISCOVERY FLIGHT!?????? Worst day ever for them.
That's what I was thinking. Guy destroyed any aspirations they may have had.
He's ok. The ground broke his fall.
Wing over stall... what the heck was going on!
Been in a similar situation. Slammed the nose forward for a few seconds. Kept flying. That's sad. 😥
Ya know, many times pulling back doesn't mean you're going to go up, especially when you're behind the power curve with that silly nose attitude. Just saying 🙂
Cause: Dan Gryder
Part of the problem is the dangerous lack of energy management concerns in the numbers driven, not flying driven, ACS maneuvers. Neither Vx nor Vy are ever appropriate on long runways. Failure to seek the extra free energy of ground effect as default on every takeoff projects orientation and muscle memory for too high pitch attitude. When too low to recover from inadvertent stall, airspeed and not altitude, is life. Until we drive the law of the roller coaster, from Stick and Rudder, into the mind of all pilots, we will continue having this problem. Until we teach serious consideration of what the airplane wants to do, both when pitched up higher than trimmed and when turning, Wolfgang didn't engineer dynamic neutral stability, but he understood it, sought it, taught it, used it in his normal flying.
Will you do a review of N661TC ? I think there should be a conversation about how the cause of the crash was missed over several inspections cycles and other concerning facts.
right now I am only using the channel to share NTSB reports that contain a video along with them. I might pass that accident to another youtuber who does briefings
@@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases thank you for a quick reply. Any attention brought to this crash may help to explain why nobody lost their A&P license even after that particular airplane had three starter Jen failures in the past 15 months, along with an easily accessible area to detect chafing on a wire the size of my pinky. That particular plane flew on a regular basis and had regular inspections that should have detected the chiefed wire and or hydraulic line
Somebody didnt do their maths/checklist.
A CFI doesn't know the proper response to an impending power on stall?
Typical dept. Stall
Stupid pilot. Overloaded plane. The very bad flap setting. I’d wager the CG was too far to the aft causing the pilot to be unable to point the nose down when the plane stalled on climbout.
It's actually very hard to get a 172 outside of it's CG range.
It's nose heavy to begin with and you'd have to have a couple of real butter balls in the back seat with no front passenger. It's easier to exceed forward CG limits and even then you might be going over MTOW to accomplish it.
Pilot who landed with flaps 30 on previous flight didn’t clean up after clearing runway then next pilot simply hopped in and took off without 1. Using the Checklist. 2. Conducting a preflight inspection. 3. Conducting a run up- pre departure checklist thus departing with flaps 30.
You drop the flaps for preflight on a 172 and I'd say that's true for most planes.
4 year old video gets a big fat thumbs down.
wait till you see the 2011 video filmed with a 70s camera
Karen strikes again
It's like nobody wants to do the math anymore. JFC we have so much tech now. GA pilots are ignoring simple math that can save lives.
Don't fly again , please.
Gotta learn somehow
Sometimes God doesn't intervene. People are given the free will to do things that will kill them.
Too steep!
Pwr-on stall
There are more navy divers looking for pilots than pilots looking for divers
Aviation is not meant for zoomer and millennial kids. The safe operation of a plane needs more than your texting and being offended skills. Being a barista for a summer isnt enough.
Pretty idiotic take.
Yeah, I'm older than a Millennial...who by the way are reaching middle age now.
Not even remotely grounded in reality.
@@JoshuaTootell so you personally represent the throng of dead zoomer and millennial kids that are failing their way to a free cremation in some plane they shouldnt be in? What a narcissist ahaha