Hardtail Vs. Full Suspension Mountain Bike - What is Faster?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 2. 07. 2016
- Pro cross country racers are often seen switching from hardtail to full suspension race bikes depending on the track. We test out the new Scott Scale and Spark that have been co developed with Nino Schurter to see which is fastest around the Lenzerheide World Cup XC course.
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i Love my hardtail simply because I can't afford a fully.
Alexander Dubberke is hardtail good enough for just forrests like this not anything extreme or super fast
i got fully for 250$ it price is almost like a hardtail
Nikola Golic same here
Nikola Golic what is the name of yours
Stringing Machines mine is haro
I loved my hardtail but at age 46, I for sure enjoy the ride of my full suspension. I'm not trying to break any record times so for me the upgrade to a full sus was no doubt a good choice for my overall riding experience.
4:16 that cow was admiring your skills!
for all you folks its not a cow its a rock. thank you and sorry.
I have been riding full suspension since 95 simply because it is more fun. However, I have been thinking of getting a hardtail this summer. It is just so different to ride, so it probably improves my overall riding technique and makes me faster what ever bike I ride.
Nice comparison.
After full suspension, I'm back with hardtails. I'm not skillful or strong. Not only do I not really work the rear suspension, but my miniscule power output is sucked by it anyway. It's also simpler and lighter and in my opinion, always looks better.
Full suspension with remote lockout , I only ride a hardtail because I ride street and flowy trails , plus I'm broke asf
THANK YOU! Great video editing as always!
Proper riding footage included. Super nice!
excellent demonstration of the 2 types of bikes - thank you very much for taking the time and sharing your expertise - this is a very big help to me
Also you should have done a lap where you were using the Twin-Lockout system.
We'll save it for another video! :)
I agree with the above comment. The Spark lost most of the time when out of the saddle. It's got Twin-lock for a reason, you should use it to make it a fair comparrison between the two. Anyway, the video was still very interesting. For all those on bikes without a remote lockout and are too lazy to reach down and flick the switch, this shows how much time/effort they're losing when out of the saddle.
Chris Barrett w8, wasnt it a test fully vs hard? why using lock at fully to make it more like a hardy? that makes no sense at all xP
I have a Scott Genius with Twin-loc. I was shocked at how much locking the suspension improves efficiency.
jmdelapp yeah myb, but why testing such a thing in comparison then? u would only see if it acts like it or comes close or whatever. as an example u dont take a ferrari and do a lap on a course abd then idk a mercedes, putting the ferrari engine into it and compare that two cars on the track.
this must have been one of the most accurate comparisons i've seen. Congrats
Thank you! Glad that you enjoyed it... :)
Global Mountain Bike Network I think this is sarcasmđ
the last full suspension i rode seat sprung up and hit me in the family jewels as i was sitting down never bought one since
Personally I loved this video (no sarcasm) because it was a real scientific analysis.
Maybe it could be longer where the lockout mode could be used, showing everything that can be done with the fully, but the difference between the two bikes was explained.
Absolutely love this video: Kinda funny in the beginning (plus super nice music), smooth riding in the midsection and a surprising outcome in the end...
Nice edits and Scott, great energy!
Sweet Editing!
You should try fully ridget bikes as well!
The more I check out the market today the more i fall in love with my 24 years old rigid Trek 970. :-)
Armin Sommer I do the same with my Wheeler 7700
A guy racing against full and front suspension rocked up with a ridged to a hardcore cross country event and destroyed the field. Suspension is overrated
+AdelaideBikeFreeway Suspension isn't overrated. Sometimes it really is just the rider, and they'd win on anything.
I started racing when rigid was the norm, and people made fun of front sus. Trust me, bombing down a rough hill seriously sucks on a rigid bike. And it is not fast. It's super course dependant though.
Why would you not use the lockout on the smooth climbs, that's one of the great advantages of the full because you can have both when you need it, kinda invalidates the test if you ask me
Ummm invalidates the test that turns it into a hard tail if you lock it sooooooo that would invalidate the test
+ben green no, that would just be using the bike to its fullest capability, the remote lockout is a huge reason full sus is popular for CC racing, without it of course there are major losses due to the suspension, however every rider would use the lockout to maximise efficiency
I would argue not using the lockout would be more reason to invalidate the test since you are intentionally handicapping the full suspension bike.
I feel like the lockout should have been used because you should use every thing on the bike that is stock.
not that their tests are good in any sense anyway .... as much as I love this channel
I have a Cannondale F5 and I have ridden FS bikes both mid and high end. I am completely happy with my Cannondale hardtail. No plans to upgrade it unless I need to. I'll ride that bike until it falls apart and have no regrets that I should have an FS bike.
awesome vid, really liked the analytics at the end.
I have both hardtail and full suspension, I love my hardtail but when I ride that for a while and I switch to my full suspension it just feels great
Excellent video and cool edit - nicely done!
Would love to see you guys come out to Utah and Colorado for some big mountain riding. Our trails are much different - a few miles climbing followed by miles of descending.
I was riding the Advanced trails at Kirkwood, CA. On a hard tail Giant STP 2. Keeping up with people on full Suspension down hill bikes.
Getting a lot more confidence on camera, mate! Keep it up!
It made my day when he said 'Same rider' and also because of his pose! But I am really learning a lot about bikes in GMBN! Thanks you guys!
We got some of the lightest mountain bikes in production. "Puts mallet dh's on them"XD
Maybe lightest production bike. Definitely not the lightest possible. There is a huge difference
+Stunt Vist AFAIK the canyon exceed is around 7,9kg with the most expensive standard setup
+Stunt Vist do you know how light the new 2017 scott spark is?
+Vanadium No idea. It could be estimated if we knew the frame weight. Canyon exceed frame weights 870g at size M
Spark is as light as 1779g for the 29er, thats with all hardware and the shock
For the terrain and trails I ride on in the mid south United States, I haven't been on a trail where I wished I had a full suspension. I love my hard tail 29'er and sometimes I even break out the good old 26er
This just shows how much you got better over the years, I'm here since 200K and since then you got way awesomer!
since 200 thousand? WOW!!!
I'm going to buy a FS in the future but over the summer I've been rocking a Trek Procaliber 8 and I love it. Made some mods here and there to fit my preference and it's been a joy, much better than my first few hardtails. It's a really cool design too, made for XC, with the IsoSpeed decoupler it's definitely a little smoother than other hardtails I've had.
Never apologize for your bike, ride what you have with confidence, and have fun!
Same rider! đ the Head spin arms crossed, nice lads
I own both a FS XC and hardtail XC bike. I usually race on the hardtail unless I know the course is really technical. The hardtail is almost always faster for racing. But, the FS bike is the one I grab when I'm going to new trails. It has a wider range of capabilities.........and it's more fun to ride in most cases.
Hmm Id say full sus is less fun riding, less connected to road, slower in most cases, requires less skill, and so on
Testical Descent Lab (c)
Rediscovered the long time known stuff.
When rough terrain makes you slow down - more suspension helps, when extra weight and less effective pedaling power distribution make the difference - less suspension is better.
I love how they've go Scott riding a Scottđ
you should try an all mountain hardtail vs an all mountain full squish
definitely
Does an all mountain hardtail even exist?
I have a 2014 Kona Taro. I bought it as it was one of the only all mountain hardtails I could find. Aggressive geo, dropper post ready and 130 mm travel. Not a large market for them for some reason.
+Spyreax II yes diamond back makes ones Kona makes one a few brands do
+Spyreax II yes
brilliant editing đ
Amazing editing
Ive got both these bikes and have tested and raced on both, i wanted so badly for my newer fully to be faster (or at least the same) bc i wanted the comfort & technical advantage it gives, so i even turned it into a 14sp to lighten it up to within 1lb heavier than my hardtail. Even using the lockout and tweaking the geometry for better pedalling efficiency the fully still feels like im riding from within a lazy-boy armchair (really ineffeciant) compared to the racey hardtail, fully is even slower on dh segments! Tho the hardtail is 26inch wheel and fully 27.5 so i think the hardtails smaller wheels are more manageable on tight single-track giving an advantage too. Bummed really. :(
When i first saw you at Marc's place, i thought you had some massive shoes to fill, but you seem to be improving your presenting skills really fast. Gr8 job m8, i r8 it 8/8.
Thank you, much appreciated!
Love the videos guys, keep it up! But when editing try not to have the music twice as loud as the talking, just my feedback
Awesome video guys!
I love a nice hardtail especially CroMo. But do I hate a technical climb. Great video I really like this MTB series.
It would have been awesome to compare "hardtail vs full-sus vs hardtail plus bike."
You missed a golden opportunity Scotty - if a plus bike turns out to be better on a technical XC course, you would have started a gear revolution on the XC scene :-)
(And why not throw in a fatbike, just for Neil?)
hey gmbn ive been riding a single speed up hills and down on fridays and its really fun you should make a vid of just single speeds
Great video guys!!
hello! I'm from Mexico and I been following your channel since last year and in personal opinion I think is the best comparison that you have made..same "bike" and same rider, cause in other videos you made a vs with not the same things. I hope I can explain myself good. thanks for reading!
Thank you, love your feedback especially when it is so positive, if you have any ideas for vs then let us know! We'd love to produce them...
+Global Mountain Bike Network of course... maybe you can try this... 3 riders and 3 bikes In the same line (hard tail , double suspension, enduro, ) the point is the same kind. then each rider ride 3 bikes and make a rest before another test so we can have a more detailed results, of course make a test of what we liked of the bike and what don't. hope I can help, I'm very happy that you answer me :)
The Best intro ever!
great review!
it really all comes down to budget and personal preference and what style of riding both are good at different things I personally go with full suspension because its a lot more comfortable on long enduro rides and is a lot more comfortable on the DH although a Higher end hardtail can smash the dh but it also comes down to how good of a rider you are.
I have been riding hardtail since 98 simply because it is more fun (and faster and easier to handle). However, I have been thinking of getting a full suspension rig now that I'm old and prefer more comfort to a fun speedy ride.
Good job mate
From the footage of the spark it looked like you did not have enough air. Bottomed out a lot and that will make it bob more then usual. Also could have your the twin lock to put into one of the climb modes to stop it from bobing while keeping traction
This was a really damn good video.
I have a hard tail giant fathom 2 2018 model and I find it better than any of my previous full Susp bikes, I find power more important than comfort đ
I love my hardtail and biking trails in general! But my knees do give me a hard time tho. Will a full sus help knee problems or does it matter?
If it will help then I'm definitely considering the changeover but that's really my only reason for the consideration...
What y'all think about it??
The 26" bicycles were the most beautiful. Really miss them.
yeah you can lock out a rear suspension - but the full sus bike will always weigh more. Personally I'm a hard tail fan. I prefer light + direct power over comfort
hmn on the decent it will be handy. high frequently hits will make any hardtail a pain in the ass and slow because you will lose control if you don't slow down.
I don't see the weigth difference anymore. almost 1kg more for a full sus is not the world. my 2 year old XC hardtail is close to the weigth of new expensive enduro bikes with 170/170 mm
If you compare the weight of each frame its a very noticeable difference, few lbs actually if i recall?
I've been riding mountain bikes since before their was full suspension. If hardtails are a pain in the ass you are doing it wrong. On downhills you are suppose to get out of the saddle and use your legs as suspension.
It's not in the downhills the hardtail is uncomfy in my opinion. It's at flat to slight inclines with *rough* terrain (technical trails) where you want to keep pedalling sitting down rather than standing up. But I'm all for hard tail too, at the moment.
Jeff K do you take every word literally but don't look what the sentence before, after and the actual sentence means? You can and must dampen the hits with your legs and arms but if you really do use mountainbikes for what they are made then you know that a full suspension bike will beat a hardtail on most downhill sections with frequently high hits and even if they are small. You will bounce to much around if you going fast. There is no way you can compensate this with your legs because you dont have a rebound.
Like other say it is also not really a comfy thing uphill or on the flats, it is a practical thing to be faster with more efficiency.
That place looks amazing
Pro's and con's for both bikes, all I know is I have not long got my first full sus bike after riding years with a hard tail. The full sus is definately faster on the down hills, corners I would have breaked before hand on the hard tail, I can just let the brakes off with the full sus once I got used to it. With the lockout on the up hills I can't notice a difference. I'm no professional and definately prefer my full sus bike, no going back for me.
I've used Strava to do the same testing. The winner was... anything with plus tires. My 32 lb DMR Trailstar with 27.5 x 2.8 tires was faster up and down than my Carbon Norco revolver 29er and my Rocky Mountain Pipeline with either 2.8 or 3" tires was faster than my Niner Rip 9 RDO. Between hardtail and full-sus, it all depended on the trail and how much crud (roots and rocks).
Very nice video !!
Ich love the effects when he stand apart of the track an the same person came a cross with the bike, but how you do this? 2 spread videos and cut together ore green screen ?
Maybe the time difference was caused just because you run HardTrail secondly? Maybe you got more used with the track...
Did you know the track very well before? Were you use to it?
Thank you for the video.
I tried my dads full suspension bike and oh my god, my hardtail doesn't compare to the full, its so much more fun and comfy, I do feel like I have more control over my hardtail, but then its 2 sizes down from my dads fully, so maybe that why but dropping off curbs while sitting down hurts like hell on my hardtail, its so relaxing and smooth on the full sus. I don't normally sit down and go off curbs on any bike, it's just a test I do on lots of bikes I try.
A hardtail is a lot more responsive imo. The fs is great for them bumps, but the bounce at the rear would just slow you down. Going through trails on a fs and a hardtail, i prefer hardtail.
Haha I was just on a load of videos with the chillest music and guys shredding DH and here we have metal and XC on a tarmac trail
Good vid tho, feel the guy isn't as used to a hardtail as a full sus?
All I know is my hardtail bucks me off more and leaves my hands dead tired at the end of the ride from constant rattling. I like it for trekking around but that full suspension let's me ride down stuff I never thought possible.
I can easily ride hardtail without any problems
@No Comps asshole comment
@Animagus Borealis did i say that?
@Animagus Borealis i had yeah. Bought a hardtail and i ride in a trail full of mud and slippery tree roots. Just find it more easy to control hardtail
A lot of full suspension bikes have lockouts for the rear which basically makes them hard tails. I would have like to have seen him lockout the suspension during the less technical aspects to see if the weight difference, which basically the only difference at that point, made up for lost time.
I wasn't surprised by these results.
Great video!
What about a fully with rear lock up? As quick as a hard tail? I missed this comparison in the test.
With lockout its even worse, its simply kilogram heavier, and still loses power. Lockout just makes it directly a lot inferior hardtail
When do these bikes come out? I'm lovin the spark đ
They are 2017 models, at the moment no official ETA but later on in the year we'd imagine!
It's a 29" or a 27.5"?
Thks
Wow, this guy has a super sick job! Oh what I wouldn't give to be able to do that
can you do a comparison review of the Bird Cycles range!?
I would like to see hard tail with a Cane Creek Thudbuster. I think after some practice Thudbuster could be better than both as you can use it to absorb shock from the rear but also you don't lose much or any power when climbing.
Thanks Scott. Did the full suspension bike have remote lockout? If it didn't, it might be interesting to install one and rerun the test to if you could close the gap.
It will come at a later date! The Twinlock system fully locks out front and rear so it would definitely climb more effectively...
Yeah, being able to lock out the rear suspension for long smooth climbs would probably help a lot.
Great video...would have been nice to know the price point for each bike, but I can find it. Thanks for the vid
Scott +Scott =sick edit
I've got a remote lock out so could have locked the suspension on my full sus for those climbs. Do you reckon that feature would have put the full sus back in front?
Please do a similar comparison between a hardtail fat bike and a FS fat bike !
I would of liked to see the times for each segment, a bit more of a breakdown of climbs, v decent ect . of course riding up a tar hill is always going to be faster on a hard tail but by how much?
How they made this video is really good
Could you please do a similar video but with the same bike and different tire pressures. As an XC rider/racer I am trying to figure out whether its faster to have higher PSI (say 35-40psi) for more efficient climbs but with slower descents (due to less traction), or a lower psi (say 25psi) to improve traction on the descents. Does the uphill gain in efficiency make up for the downhills (or vice versa)?
This test was used some kind of blocking the full? I would like to see a test on a rise with blocked fork vs. open fork.
The real question is: What bike did you take for your sighting lap when the camera wasnt rolling? My guess would be the Full Suspension bike.
I like the contrasts in this video: First it is said that Lenzeheide is the perfect place to test, and then when the results point in a direction that is unwanted, then all of a sudden there might be other places where the full-suss is better. Which is it? Was this the best place to test it, and then the HT is faster, or it was actually not the best place and then the test i useless?
These bikes look cool.
I would only go back to hardtail if it was a plus bike. love those things.
Hardtails ftw
I ride a hardtail and my friend that I mainly ride with has a full susp. we both have high quality bikes and I notice that he has a slight advantage on steppy uphill things, where I have the advantage on things like downhill single track stuff. I guess it just depends where you ride and where you want your advantage to be. Most of our riding is in Sedona Az.
That's really interesting, would have thought it'd be the opposite, with hardtail being faster up and full sus faster down. But maybe that's also down to the riders!
Ya me too, but those Sedona steps often have sharp edges like steps in a house, they are also compressed red sandstone that chips and flakes a bit when you ride over it which often causes my hardtail to slide out and 'skip' where that dub susp can react to it in a cleaner way. My friend also says that the dub susp 'hops' on him in the rear from the (downhill) steps despite many attempts on his part to tune it so that doesn't happen. So ya it may be the way he rides ,he doesn't get over his back wheel like I do in the sketchy stuff as well so he tends to have weight more to the front which may be the cause of his hopping rear end problem, or it may be just the Sedona terrain, which is much different than the terrain you film many of your videos on.
I think the course you're racing on definitely has an effect on results
Don't stress FS folks, this was anything but a valid scientific study. I'm sure if you had 40 riders, who some start with full and others with a hard, and have each do 3 laps with each bike in mixed order you would get a lot more randomized data points to give you a better idea of the trends. That said, it looked like the course chosen favored the hard, but then again, I've never ridden there. This was more or less a fun video that these guys are known for producing so take it as such and ride what you want/can afford!
The gold cassette looks nice.
full suspension makes more fun thats my opinion.
Well for normal commute around town I donât like the thin wheel street bikes I rather have something that can cushion the impact on a rough road I donât need a full suspension bike maybe something with front suspension and that will be ideal lol
used to love hardtails
got a full suspension few days ago
never want a hardtail again... fullly's fucking rule
May I ask why a fully suspension is better for you? :)
just so much more control over the bike during downhill sections and bumpy terrain
don't get me wrong hardtails are cool too, but once I got that full sus feeling I just can't let go of it
I wonder how the result would be with someone with much lower skill levels?
William Ng when I started i preferred full suspension just because I was going over the handle bars, but I just find hardtails so much more fun
Great Video Thanks
What is most affirmed when you slip?
any chance you guys could do something similar with Cannondale F-Si? there are hardly any real life reviews out there for this model (I know you already had Fontana's model featured last year) Thank you :)
but your 2nd run would usually be faster, plus u could of locked off the suspension when needed
I did a pre sight lap, checked lines before any racing kicked off...
+Global Mountain Bike Network But you still could have locked out the suspension, every non technical hills and some technical I always dampen or stiffened my rear suspension sometimes my front as well.
+Global Mountain Bike Network was it timed using strava or good old fashioned stopwatch?
Timed using Strava.
+Global Mountain Bike Network would be good to see a video on how accurate strava is.
maybe same ride with different devices.
I love full suspension ebikes, so much fun
i will love to see better geometry(like enduro) on short travel hardtail bikes. and maybe more 26+ wheel size. all of that with on budget drivetrain to keep cost low. do i ask too much ?
I have both HD and FS and hardtail sucks for very technical trails but rocks on easy trails because acceleration is amazing. different trails call for different rides!
Truth to the matter is, no matter how much tech you put in a full suspension bike, the climb will always belong to a hard tail because there is no suspension to eat up some of the energy you put into pedaling. However, a full sus bike will always win on a downhill trail because the bounce of the bike is reduced, therefore, less impedance and more speed. Nice comparison video though! Kudos to GMBN!