We React to Reddit New Underrated Cards | Commander Clash Podcast 120
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- čas přidán 6. 11. 2023
- Let's see if Reddit can unearth some new hidden gems for us!
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Open the way can also be 6 mana ramp. Doesn't say opponent just players.
Did you mean 6 CMC ?
Correct They got this fact wrong. You yourself are always counted as one of the players. So in a 4 player game you can pay 4 into x.
I came to say the same thing!
Came to say the same thing, they got this wrong
Richard likes it so he'll figure it out once he plays it to kill everyone
Truth be told, the vast majority of these cards are fairly recent, and many, me included, stopped updating theyr decks due to the overwhelming amount of product coming out. We get upgraded versions of existing decent/good cards all the time now and people are getting more and more tiered. Keeping up now feels more like a chore than actual enjoyment. That's the reason why many solid good cards aren't taking over old timers
I don't think it's even just new product I think the number of possible commanders has skyrocketed so now its more exciting to build that new commander rather then upgrading your existing decks.
100% agree. I love playing commander, but I enjoy other TCGs and games as well. I don't have it in me anymore to actively scrub through every new magic release like I used to.
Super super true. A lot of these cards I either didn't know or were on my "to buy list" but slipped my mind. Naturally I got real life stuff to do so I just can't keep track with updating my decks, brainstorm new possible synergies and Yada yada.
I need a lot of free time and be in the right mood to do that whole updating process
Pretty sure that’s why they’re doing the podcast episode lol
@@LilSenwolfFew of the new Commanders ever do anything new. They just power creep the same deck archetypes, so you can effectively just replace a Commander in an existing deck (moving the old Commander into the 99) and buy any new staples that offer significant power creep.
The Doctor Who release was the only set that did something new with the Timey-Wimey deck (which notably now costs 2x the other precon decks for Doctor Who).
Fallout will finally give an Energy deck (so that will probably go up in price significantly) but otherwise just an Equip/Aura deck, a Token deck and a Mill deck. Hardly innovative or inspiring any new creativity to the game. I was looking forward to Fallout but then I was like “I already have these decks more or less”.
Most of the new mechanics are just we-worked old mechanics.
I think Make An Example is good for every reason Crim and Tomer said, but nobody even mentioned the political component. There are so many times when I have cast Fact or Fiction and got all 5 cards because I had a friend at the table. Make An Example allows you to wheel and deal and pick and choose who are your friends, and reward people for those alliances. There are so many possible decision paths with this card.
oh absolutely. I've played make an example and had people make deals to spare their commanders or just kill one problem creature and spare the rest. On top of that, it ignores hexproof, indestructible, and protection!
this is basically 4 mana cripple each opponent's board (if you so choose) and your board stays squeaky clean. I jam it in every black deck and it does great work every time.
Plus sac synergies and gets around hexproof & indestructible.
I will have to try this card out!
Yep, the Richard guy was absolutely clueless on this card. at WORST, it's 4 mana delete everyone's best creature dodging hexproof/shroud, which is already great. And on top of that, you will likely hit even more, and you can rebalance the power dynamic of the table. fantastic card
Any card that has the wording "whenever an artifact eneters the battlefield" should hold a lot of respect. Treasures, clues and foods along with any played artifact can quickly make those cards become extreme threats.
My buddy has a temur artifact deck that makes food, clue, treasure, thopters, basically all sorts of artifacts. He just added the blue card that turns all artifacts he controls into 4/4s, then had artifact tokens gain flying, and we thought we delt with it for him to play the new Dino card that turns them into 7/7s. We all laughed and couldn't believe how evil all his tiny token artifacts became just pure terror
2:34 - Sword of Once and Future
6:36 - Hoarding Broodlord
10:30 - Feast of the Victorious Dead
14:47 - Make an Example
21:00 - Tribute to the World Tree
21:20 - Sarinth Steelseeker
27:35 - Glimmer Lens
32:56 - Green Sun's Twilight
38:54 - Mishra's Research Desk
42:35 - Wildfire Awakener
47:21 - Open the Way
53:28 - Symmetry Matrix
59:15 - Irenicus's Vile Duplication
Is Tribute to the World Tree under rated? Everyone I talk to thinks it's really strong.
It would be nice to see them rate what % they all think it *should be* and THEN look it up to make their conclusion on it being underrated or overrated
I really like Hoarding Broodlord in a reanimate deck. You can mill it and then cast reanimate on it, tutor for any card and have a 7/6 flying body. You can sacrifice it for value and reanimate it again. The convoke ability on it is just the cherry on top for me
My reanimator deck pulls this nonsense.
Broodlord>saw in half>entomb Scholar of the lost Trove>reanimate Scholar>re-cast saw in half on Scholar>re-cast entomb (any target)>re-cast reanimate on scholar>to cast second entomb target.
You can reanimate any creature/artifact (instead of the second Scholar), OR, cast any instant/sorcery...
Or in Prosper/Tibalt.
Not only is Irenicus's Vile Duplication criminally underplayed, but Quantum Misalignment from Dr. Who I'm SURE is going to track that way as well. Its 1 extra mana... but it rebounds making 2 copies. 1 extra mana to clone your commander this turn, and again next turn... yes please.
26:02 I really need crim to say what card he was thinking of because "that card that cares about artifacts and graveyard" narrows it down to 255.
I think he misspoke and was trying to talk about Teething Wurmlet
Hording broodlord can be a 1 card win con with saw in half! The combo package has been making it's way into cEDH! And the convoke is what pushes it over the edge!
Yeah, it really is a 7 mana tutor+fast mana card... And you can only answer the fast mana unless, of course, they tutored an instant.
My gy deck likes to pull this nonsense.
Broodlord>saw in half>entomb Scholar of the lost Trove>reanimate Scholar>re-cast saw in half on Scholar>re-cast entomb (any target)>re-cast reanimate on scholar>to cast second entomb target.
4 cards, cast for a total of 8 times, for the lols...
The best part about vile duplication is the fact that it makes a token, and there are now so many token doublers it’s amazing!
And now tripler's ! and you can triple those doublers and double those triplers!
It's just gotta feel SO bad when someone blows up your copy target while it's on the stack.
@@jeffe2267 it hurts, not gonna lie
I love dropping IVD in my Adric and Nev deck. "I'll have three copies of my commander now, thanks! Then, since a creature entered the battlefield, my Gala Greeters will now make 8 treasure tokens."
Something that gets overlooked a lot with aristocrat decks is that you’re still flooding the board with creatures. So even in a deck that doesn’t specifically care about counters, Feast of the Victorious Dead gives you the ability to swing for huge chunks of damage before sacrificing all your creatures. That’s just value.
Never heard of “make an example” but that’s a nice partial one sided board wipe.
I agree that Hoarding Broodlord is underrated, especially for its immediate mana discount effect. I have, on more than one occasion, used it to tutor a Bone Shards or Tragic Slip or similar 1 mana removal spell, that can be cast for free off of just the Broodlord itself. Same goes for cards like Reanimate, Entomb, Dark Ritual, etc.
I like Sword of Once and Future in my Zada deck, being able to get those cantrips that target Zada back is really nice plus that protection can be really helpful for keeping Zada alive
That’s an acceptable use of it 😂
I feel like they're just a tiny bit too harsh on the sword. It's narrow, but in the right spot it definitely has a solid role to play.
Yeah. I was talking about feather the redeemer.
@@zoeysheldon5634 solid and passable but never great:/
Symmetry Matrix does great in my Krenko deck. Not many good budget draws in red.
If you're untapping with Krenko after putting 4 mana into a card that does nothing, I'd really hope you have better things to do than spend 1 mana to draw 1 card over and over. You should be winning if you untap with Krenko, not filling your hand.
Green suns twilight is X+1 so if the rest of your deck is all creatures and lands you could cycle it for G or even get a draw 2 for 2 if your lucky.
Green Sun's Twilight isn't just a worse Genesis Wave. It can get a creature of any mana value, not just X or less. That's a big deal. It means it's much more like a worse version of See the Unwritten!
Good point!
Yeah I don't think Genesis Wave, Green Sun's Zenith, or Finale of Devastation are proper comparisons over stuff like See The Unwritten or Summoning Trap. I think the main thing that Green Sun's Twilight offers is the "divination" mode, being castable for less mana.
@@babatazyah AKA the "Gift of the Gargantuans" mode, yes. I'm not a big fan of how few cards it looks at in that mode; feels like you have to be really desperate to fire it off for X
Brood-lord makes kriik cedh lists and people seem to really love it. I think it’s rated well it’s just not expensive(which is nice) bc you need it to fit in your deck the right way. It’s not a jam.also I love the twilight cycle.
Broodlord plus Saw in Half is crazy 😎
@@Amascutsaw in half > peer into the abyss & sacrifice > win
I’m on the other side of the camp of just jam it in anything without Ad Nauseam. The 4 card package is compact enough to just slam in anything, all you need is a combo that you can just put out immediately post Peer.
@@Amascut true.
My underrated picks are :
- bitter reunion (80% of the time a better thrill of possibilities)
- scale the heights (kinda on a cultivate/kodama's reach power level if you have a 37ish land count and counter and/or life gain synergies)
these are 2 solid cards 👍
I think volcanic offering is underrated you should be running more incidental land removal and volcanic offering lets you take down two creatures and two lands at instant speed.
Card is literally juiceddddd
Broodloord is good cause it's a one card combo. With the etb you serach for saw in half, csat it on itself. With the 2 new broodlords you get sacrifice and peer into the abyss.
For green suns twilight, seems like the group was missing the fact that its x+1. You cast it for 5, you look at the top 5 and grab a 5 drop and a land.
You cast gen wave for 5, you'll look at your top 2 and whiff.
Def underrated with any green deck that has a high concentration of utility creatures.
Not to mention, with top deck manipulation it becomes much better.
You can grab a 10 drop even. This card can grab any mana value even if X is 5. Card isnt too bad.
It's always wild to me that they'll see a card like Mishra's Research Desk, and be like "I'm going to combine every possible cost on this card into a single mana cost" as though there aren't times you'd play it as the last card on your turn, wait a round, then activate it on your upkeep or next end step, or play it on turn two, activating it the next turn to draw a land.
Like, it's only bad because it hits two and you only get one, but Prosper would appreciate that card because it's both an impulse effect and an artifact. And even in a pure artifact deck, you can always fish cards out of exile with Karn.
Irenicus Vile Duplication goes in every single deck i make that includes even a modicum of blue in it
The only point I feel is worth pointing out for Sword of Once and Future: Surveil 2 is very real if your deck cares about the graveyard (it's an EDH deck, so it does care) - it's so much better than Scry 2. I don't think SoFI is all *that* much better when taking that into consideration: the shock and flashback triggers are both just... fine, and Surveil 2 is actually pretty equivalent to Draw 1. While the flashback takes up much more space, it's the weaker trigger imo.
That said I think the Swords fall off extremely hard after "untap all your lands" anyways.
Sword of once and future is absolutely underrated. I think the primary reason y'all don't rate it very highly is because you're intentionally lower power level, but when half of your combo pieces/answers are 1-2 mana instants and sorceries, it shines far more than in decks with a curve of 4 and up.
Crim is absolutely right about Make an Example... The card is an absolute slapper. Because you get to choose which pile you are always going to choose the best decision. If you think Merciless executioner is an alright card because he takes a creature from every opponent for 3 mana this card is WAY more bonkers in that you will be often getting more than one creature and also will always be getting to make the best decision for yourself. And I havent even mentioned the fact that it doesnt hurt you.
As far as sword of once and future I can think of 4 great green 2 mv sorceries everyone plays
and at least 2 1-2 mana black sorcery/instants
Yeah but the point is that running this sword just for a handful of targets isn't worth it. You gotta have 20-ish or more 2mv instants or sorceries for it to reliably hit something. Can you find 25 2mv instants/sorcerers worth playing in your deck?
My izzet spellslinger deck loves this sword
@darianm9741 Yeah, but you're not gonna just jam this is any deck. You're gonna put in a deck which is already Conniving and Surveilling stuff to the graveyard, so by the time you get the sword in for damage you already have targets in the graveyard. Not to mention you could just be getting second casts off your early ramp, draw, or removal spells.
One that comes to mind is [[Master Warcraft]] in Boros. Being able to control both attackers and blockers on ANY turn for any player is just game-breaking. Great offensive card but can also save lives in a pinch (just declare no attackers, or full send and tap down an opponent's board).
It's one of those cards that's so good it's almost boring to play, because it pretty much always kills a player (sometimes more).
[[Out of Time]] is another great one..pseudo-boardwipe (and commander prison) for 3cmc. Depending on your playgroup, sweeping up 3-4 threats for 3-4 turns can be enough to end the game, and situationally is much stronger than outright killing everything. It's the perfect balance of strong and fun, IMO...people tend to really get into the ticking timebomb aspect of it.
Master Warcraft stinks after you try it once. You can declare attackers, but you do not declare who they attack. You're opponents still can full send against you. I prefer a fog instead. Does the same thing now.
@@twilightwolf90 You're 100% right! Misplayed the card and didn't catch that detail.
Make an Example is INSANE!!! It gets past Hexproof and Shroud. It gets past Indestructible. At its worst, you are killing the best creature each enemy has on board with nothing stopping you. At its worst, youre getting half of a one-sided-board-wipe for only 4 mana. This is so damn good. Richard not getting how this is good confuses me so much.
Yes you can only kill half of their stuff if they choose right, but lets say the enemy is playing combo: they either split their combo up into piles and you kill half and disrupt it, OR they pile poorly and you kill their whole combo lol And against agro its pure gas
I think make an example can be really good, it will get around hexproof, industructible, its 4 mana for a 3 player edict that might hit more than 1 creature.
You guy's experience with Tempt of Discovery is way different than mine. Everyone always takes the tempt and gets Strip Mines or Wastelands and blows up the person that casted Tempt's lands.
This is a popular reply, but the problem with this is now you've given the Tempt player their best lands in their GY to recur later. Instead of simply saying no and not letting them Entomb 3 times for free.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander that's true. Most of the ppl in my play group don't have a lot of graveyard decks. And the couple that do just have creature ones. So it hasn't been an issue. But yeah, I agree, just don't accept the tempt.
I feel like you're wasting your resources just to be cute. Why wouldn't it be easier to leave the cards in their deck?
I'm not trying to make fun of Richard's vendetta against spot removal but like all the problems with spot removal don't apply to make an example. Spot removal is bad in Commander because it's a one-for-one but MaE when used correctly is a three-for-one with extra potential that you lose nothing for. One-sided board wipes are in a completely different overcosted category. This lets you actually do things. If your board wipe has to remove more than three things it's an escape button which this won't replace but it isn't trying to be it's just syphon mind for removal.
29:05 a lot of equipment decks do try to have a lot of creatures. Akhri wants at minimum two other creatures a turn. Most go wide decks already play pretty small creatures so an 2/2 with a curiosity effect is fine. It's also only two mana to equip so it's pretty easy to get going after a bosrd wipe. Equipment decks really suffer from essentially having two pieces: equipments and creatures to equip to and that solves this problem. A sword is five mana for your first activation plus a creature; this is 2 plus a(nother) creature and after they gets removed both are two mana a piece. Obviously swords are more powerful but they're also more expensive in every sense of the word.
49:49 comparing this to hour of promise is a massive mistake. The ability to get non-basics is an upside to having an explosive vegetation that scales with the game. Still, I think this only goes in really big mana decks. Many decks already don't need four mana for two lands so tapping 5 or 6 mana for 3 or 4 is a lot to ask, especially because if it's really situational, just run Skyshroud's claim and get untapped Forests of any kind.
Yeah, I agree. I never even knew of the card but glad to know about it now haha. I'm definitely putting it in a few of my black decks
I think Once and Future becomes more appealing if you've stacked your deck with things like tutors (Demonic/Vampiric,Mystical,) and the suspend cards without mana costs (Ancestral Vision, Crashing Footfalls, Inevitable Betrayal.) I can see myself using it in my deck if I had more creatures in it.
Hoarding broodlord is so good in blink decks that make tokens. It'd one of my favorite cards from most recent sets. And I love make an example because it gets around indestructible, shroud, hexproof , protection and other things it. An also be like a 4 mana 12 for one which is insane. Like I don't understand how richard doesn't get these things especially if you're running sac payoffs in the deck already. Also Open the Way can be cast for 4gg
[[Pheobene, Boss's Confidante]] is a criminally underrated commander. Had it built as landfall tokens and it was insane
Richard just has brain rot from playing in a pod with such an absurd amount of boardwipes.
Open the way can look for 4 cards in a game. X can be the amount of Players, not opponents.
It's not just 3, 4 ,5 mana ramp, but can also be a 6 mana +4.
In a landfall deck or lategame if you want to filter your deck paying 4GG for 4 lands is amazing.
50:19 and 6 mana ramp, its each player so in theory you could get 4 of your next lands onto the battlefield tapped. I think it is super underrated I finally was building a green deck and slammed it, sadly haven't drawn it yet so I don't know how it plays yet. Also Open the Way gets around opposition Agent.
I got a list of cards that are underrated (2% or less on EDHREC), from most underrated to least:
AUTOINCLUDE TIER -
Tenuous Truce - Basically Ghostly prison + secret rendezvous. Let the aggro player 1v2 the others while you draw some cards. Also lets you keep 2-land hands.
Protection Racket - Cognitive bias prevents people from understanding that exile-milling doesn't really matter unless you go to mill out or depend on tutors. This card draws me on average 6-7 cards a game and deals like 10 damage.
Sculpting Steel & Copy Artifact & Thieving Skydiver & Dack Fayden - 3-mana sol ring is still an amazing card.
Ghostly Pilferer - draws you like 2 cards if it comes out early enough. CEDH but not EDHREC for some reason
Ingenious Mastery & Skullwinder - I got these from Richard so enough said.
unexpectedly absent & soul partition & alchemist's retrieval & submerge - CEDH but not EDHREC. People don't value premium temporary removal all that much.
Tithe - CEDH but not EDHREC it's like land tax but less cool I guess? This, weathered wayfarer, land tax, ten truce lets you build low-land countdecks.
ALMOST AUTOINCLUDE TIER -
Keen duelist - like tenuous truce but painful and more fragile. Allows you to keep 2-land hand.
Primeval Herald & Atalan Jackal - can ramp you 2-3x potentially for cheap. usually someone is not playing early blockers or is mana screwed. Only reason to not play these is green has so many good ramp options.
One with Nature - if you have a cheap or evasive commander, this is a 1-mana sword of the anime
ACTUALLY THESE ARE KINDA BAD TIER -
Jailbreak - 2 mana recursion. Generally can find garbage to give an opponent or helps in archnemesis situation.
Vicious Shadows - underrated red wincon to play before a big ol' wipe.
Mystic Reflection - so versatile
Relic of Legends - The best 3-mana mana rock maybe?
Rona, Herald of the Invasion - superlooter
Diluvian primordial - Surprised that this is below 2% but easily the best of the primordials.
Erinis, Gloom Stalker - generally ramps you if playing with fetches
Masterwork of Ingenuity - meta-dependent but equipments are good
See the Truth - just needs a small shell to be a 2-mana draw 3. Otherwise it's a preordain in a pinch.
Gluntch, the Bestower - it blocks for days and gives you some good stuff
Walk the Aeons - imo the premium extra turn spell in landfall decks. Also it's like $2
Lethal Scheme - kills and loots
Goggles of Night - a little worse than mask of memory
TOO NEW TO SEE I GUESS BUT NOT ENOUGH TALKERS:
Zoyowa's Justice
Kellan, daring traveler
The Indomitable - better reconnaissance mission
The Belligerent
Brass' Tunnel Grinde
Only 20 minutes in and Richard is already making me crazy lol. His thoughts are so linear. Make an Example is a sweet card and his defense of why it is bad is "well it doesn't work against Teferi's Pro" - that's one card my dude and that shuts down almost anything. Even then you are getting effects that are essentially multiple single target removal against your other opponents because you can choose the pile with the creature you were going to target and it gets around protection. Please make an example out of him, Tomer!
Teferi's Protection makes almost any card useless. Using that as an example makes no sense.
@@michaelgwartney2672 Agreed. Following his logic Cyclonic Rift would be considered unplayable garbage.
Make an Example *is* terrible though. Letting your opponents make the piles is awful, a 4 drop is standard for boardwipes so not even getting all your opponents best creatures for 4 mana at Sorcery speed is a terrible rate. Like he said, the only good part is that it is sacrifice and not destroy. The rest of his logic was dumb though.
Honestly, if it exiled, it'd at least be playable. Toxic Deluge is better, Damnation is better, Supreme Verdict is better, Wrath of God is better, Damn is better, Cyclonic Rift is better, Meathook Massacre is better. Like, unless you are running boardwipe only why would you include it with so many better options?
@@casteanpreswyn7528 Your assessment isn't correct though; You choose which pile they sacrifice. Each opponent loses at least 50% of their creature assets, because you'll always choose the pile that's the worst option for them.
Make an example also gets round indestructible, is only 4 mana and is one-sided. 4 Mana wipes aren't usually one-sided.
heck, if it just said "For each opponent, choose a creature, that player sacrifices that creature." it'd be playable.
Opponents have no choice here. Sure they make they piles, but you will still choose which pile they sacrifice.
@@NessiahAriesHe HAS said that Cyc Rift is bad before...
I think Invasion of Kaldheim is a criminally underrated card, it's in 1% of decks on edhrec and is less than dollar. Red's card draw can be a little dicey, but it can function similarly to a red harmonize. It's not unreasonable to cast it, play a land you exiled with it, and then play a land and spell from exile with it the next turn. Plus you get upside if you flip it, since you can basically cycle dead lands in the late game while hitting opponents for two, picking off utility creatures, or even mucking combat. I think people get too caught up on the backside and don't think of it as generic red draw.
I play Sword of Once & Future in my Historic Wizards deck because the limit of pulling back low value mana spells & even pumping up Dreadhorde Arcanist is a great effect since I'm using low cost spells anyway, but in Commander, it's probably only for the Protection.
I played Make an Example in my Glissa the Traitor artifacts deck and it was, next to vonas hunger, one of the best edict effects in the deck due to functioning as a one sided board wipe in the way that I needed to get lots of triggers, but even outside that shell, I enjoy the Lili ult style separate piles edicts a lot as inexpensive one sided board wipes when I don’t feel like paying 7 mana for a similar albeit more powerful effect.
Magda and Hoarding Broodlord is so good in my Mardu deck
Glimmer Lens was in the precon commanded by either Neyali or Otharri. It does work in there, but I believe the reason they are both hovering around a 65% usage has more to do with the fact that people did not cut it from the deck when upgrading the precon.
Walmart puts up Christmas stuff in September. 😓
I don’t shop at Walmart any more, but that’s when the stuff was put up when I did shop there.
Irenicus's Vile Duplication reads "you win" in my Brudiclad HB deck. The turn the copy comes into play, it's already doing numbers and could very well take the win, but if the copy sits out one more turn, you get exponential growth and have like 38 4/4 flyers. It completely demolishes board stalls and closes games, and that deck runs a lot of Yung Peezy effects like Third Path Iconoclast, so it being a spell that creates a token is huge. I know that that's kinda the optimal scenario to run this card, but I have never lost a game where I got to cast this card with Brudiclad out.
Richard; *** hates sword of blue black
also richard: Surveil is extremely powerful!
Surveil is good cuz its usually far cheaper mana cost wise and works well in little bursts when you need it
Make an example is great. Being a sorcery isn't ideal, but it's too powerful to be an instant.
Is Richard actually trolling on Make an Example? It basically reads, "4 mana, for each opponent, kill their best creature plus a little extra, regardless of hexproof and indestructible." The only thing that could make it better would be if it also gave you a sac outlet for your creatures, since you have an option to make an empty pile.
Love that the quality of the opinions shoots through the roof without Seth being around
Idk Richard is a very set-in-stone kind of thinker, where he compares things to strategies he enjoys and doesn't really try to understand why certain cards can be good if they don't align with those criteria. Crim is kinda edgy and likes to go for the wall in either direction to make bold statements while not supporting his assertions well. I feel like the only person on this episode who was fairly objective and nuanced was Tomer. Seth has the opposite problem from Richard, where constantly doing Against the Odds has kinda fried his evaluation and made him too much of a believer. Phil plays chess while everyone else is playing checkers, so he's not well-suited to general discussions like these and is instead to be idolized as the King of Jank.
Hazardous Blast and Cosmotronic Wave...those cards are actively underrated. Cosmotronic Wave is the red card that won me most games in EDH. It is very unappealing, until you realize how many cards you have at your disposal that shut down the defense of every opponent. In Krenko it is a must.
I just found those cards as well while getting rid of my old bulk cards. They made really great upgrades for my Ragavan deck. Port Razer + Cosmotronic Wave = GG. There's also Fire of Orthanc, Seismic Shift, and Tectonic Rift which also destroy lands.
My favorite card that I never see anybody else play is Wildfire Devils. Its good early to mid game at snagging ramp and card draw spells. Late game it often requires some politicing to make work.
I think of it highly in prowess and spellslinger decks to recast your own card draw or big finishers. In Fireson and Sunspeaker it is really good for example.
Collector's Vault and Currency Converter I think are underrated. Lots of incidental synergy. Colorless card filtering and ramp. Seems like everything I want to be doing early game and still useful late game.
I like Sword of Once and Future in Young Pyromancer style decks. Like Aragorn the Uniter, which I also run with every other young Pyromancer I can get my hands on. Otherwise, it feels very hard to both reliably have a creature to equip this to, and a cheap spell in your GY
Open the Way is so good in my Omnath Locus of Creation deck. The X cost making it able to scale during longer, more drawn out games makes it sing.
My ramp package in that deck is:
- Crop Rotation
- Entish Restoration
- Awaken the Woods
- Farseek
- Nature's Lore
- Open the Way
- Pir's Whim
- Reshape the Earth
- Scapeshift
- Three Visits
- Titania's Command
- Invasion of Ikoria (for Dryad Arbor)
Plus a bunch of "you may play an additional land this turn" cards, "you may play lands from your graveyard" cards, landfallers that generate mana, and 9 fetch lands (6 dual color fetches, fabled Passage, Prismatic Vista, and Krosan Verge).
I only run four basics so the Entish Restoration and 2 basic fetches may feel excessive but the odds that I see all of those in one game is slim and if I do i can usually stick a Rootpath Purifier backed up with a counterspell or some other protection and opps all its all basics lol.
Easily my favorite deck. I love lands.
I like research desk for eggs. I run this in a couple different decks that care about playing little eggs and drawing cards. Kurkesh likes it, Kykar likes it, Osgir likes it, and Jhoira likes it. Really any deck where you want to storm off with little low mana artifacts can use it pretty effectively. Plus, it's another thing that's nifty to loop around with welders and such. Farid probably loves this card.
Underrated and pet cards:
Stormtide leviathan- A great budget finisher. Comes down after everyone has used up their resources and locks out most creature decks. If your group plays lots of board wipes, then getting rid of it generally won't open you up to being attached because everything else will also be dead. Hits for 8 a turn unblockably. Also fixes your mana just for fun.
Morbid curiosity - does your deck get out creatures for less than their retail price? Do you play big creatures with a good etb but not much else? Draw a whole lot of cards for pretty cheap.
Dig through time, treasure cruise - remember these? They are both under a dollar and still just as good as they were in standard.
Congregate: does your deck have sanguine bond in it? This card will just kill someone. It gains an average of over 30 life. Works with tainted pact too.
My underrated card is Glimmer Bairn. Discounted color-shifted Nantuko Husk that procs off of sac'ing TOKENS in the token doubling color. The card works really well, and it is showing up in only 1,700 or so decks on EDHREC. It's in only 2% of Lonis and Chatterfang decks, when it's one of the most reliable one drops you can get in those decks. I have no idea why it doesn't see more play.
I'm a Runescarred Demon/Hoarding Broodlord believer. They get reanimated or cheated into play in another manner. Hard casting is the backup mode forwhen you didn't cheese everyone by dodging a board wipe for lmao
I use once and future in my Mizzix Voltron deck! Yes, OG Mizzix voltron and yes I’ve won with commander damage.
Also no storm or copy spells in the deck. 😂
I tested Symmetry Matrix in Greensleeves and it's been one of the best cards in there. Landfall strategies (without blue) sometimes have card advantage issues and playing a land then using it to pay for the draw after a token is made feels so good
For Kane decks, turn 2 you ramp a land with a 2 mana ramp spell like Three Visits or Arcane Signet. Turn 3 you play Kane. Turn 4, you tap kane, play Open the Way X=4, and put 8 lands into play (basic + nonbasics). It's incredible. And this doesn't even factor in things like Instill Energy or Twiddle or whatever else you run to untap Kane.
Having more twincasters than there are known stars is one of my favorite ways to win. Every way to copy legendary creatures helps.
sword of once and future , in a thousand year storm deck , storm / relay , attack choose your 1 or 2 mana card and Multiply.
All this tells me again is we need more blood moons, price of progress, back to basics, magus of the moon, and from the ashes(to be nice, they may actually have basics).
My thoughts on Make an Example: it's actually a really good card and underrated IMO. It's a great blend between a board wipe and spot removal, allowing you to nueter your opponents' creatures without harming yours. Yes, they still get to keep something but the point is you lose absolutely nothing while each opponent loses value. And 4cmc is the gold standard of a boardwipe-ish effect. If MaE was 3cmc, the card would be a staple
Even at 3 it'd be hard to include in most decks, however if it exiled it'd be playable at least.
@@casteanpreswyn7528
Sacrifice-exile a minimum of 3 creatures for 3cmc would be absolutely absurd lol
@@ammonaustin9081 my bad, I didn't mean both 3 and exile. I meant one or the other.
At 4, if it exiled, you no longer have a chance of helping/not impacting a player or 3 and it makes it nearly impossible for them to get back their resources.
At 3, it is better, but I still don't think it gains a spot in most decks, especially while Toxic Deluge exists.
I will say though, it is an auto include in Tergrid.
@@casteanpreswyn7528
I wouldn't really compare MaE to true boardwipes because the main attraction of MaE is that it doesn't affect your own board state. In order to get the full effect of a 1 sided boardwipe, you're paying like 9 mana IE Kindred Dominance.
So I view MaE more like a Kindred Dominance that exchanges having selective destruction for lower cmc
@@ammonaustin9081 it's entirely fair to compare it and real boardwipes, especially when you yourself did.
That's the whole reason it is in this video, cause people think it is just as good just because you keep all your stuff when your opponents only keep half their stuff. To make it even worse, common strategies straight up make this bad. In a token deck, are you making them sacrifice the 40 1/1s they have or the 6 token generating creatures that'll give them those 40 tokens back next turn? Either way, you might just be dead anyway. You don't have to worry about that with an actual boardwipe.
With stop removal, the cost is low enough to not care if you only get one thing, especially when it comes to off color removal. What if your choice is a stack of 3 eldrazi titans and 2 eldrazi titans and a Blightsteel? Again, probably dead either way. Always evaluate a card at its floor before checking what the ceiling will be.
The floor of this card is you spend 4 mana and don't set anyone back more than a single turn, you can't kill, and then are killed in response. There is no upside in the floor of this card, in fact, it's all downside(and in this situation I'm assuming an opponent put all creatures in one pile to be nice to you and you chose to have them sac them all). The ceiling is very high, especially in Tergrid, but with a worthless floor it has no spot in a deck.
Also, let's not pretend like Dictate of Erebos and similar effects straight up make this card pointless and those effects are very common in many archetypes.
I agree with Crim. Green Sun works for me.
It can also be a pseudo divination which they are overlooking
On Irenicus's Vile Duplication: Building a deck AROUND your commander is not an ideal circumstance. But building a deck around a theme, where your commander shines, is ideal. Or else your deck just flops when you commander is solved, just folds your opponents too easily for it to be fun.
Hoarding broodlord is the truth. If you get saw in half you can generate insane value with.
Mishras research Desk is quite good in things like Prosper. Artefact count for things like Mopal, Sac triggers for mayhem devil. I have it in my Cedh Prosper Deck and it does some good work. There are so many times you have 1 colourless around. Wrens resolve is obviously better but Id still recommend to try this in Prosper. You have enough mana and the unearth comes up a lot of the time surprisingly. Also Hoarding broodlord is very good with things like saw in half and clone effects.
24:50 I do run Sarinth Steelseeker in Lonis. It's pretty absurd, especially if you have Kodama of the East Tree as well. That being said, it's in 68% of Lonis decks and close to 50% in Samwise. It might be more of a very archtype specific then an underrated card.
No worries, I feel quite fine about my highlighted comment. My card has hit 20% in many cedh decks haha.
Richard, I need to know your take on Healing Technique. It's a skullwinder without the deathtouch body, but you get 2 cards and some life.
This was dope content. Crim made a pretty good note. Problem with some of these cards are yeah, theyre good, some only in the ideal situation, but for the most part, there are better cards and you only have so many slots in a deck. Staples are staples for a reason.
I was hoping someone would have mentioned cosmic voyage. Tomer tweeted about it and since then I've put it in all of my decks with white.
I play once and future in my orzhov and boros control decks mainly just for protection from dimir. I feel like 75% of games I play are against dimir. There are so many good one and two drops in R/B/W (cut down/go for the throat/ destroy evil ect.) And white is so easy to cheat equipment then u get to cast all that removal again for free. I even like it in golgari sometimes.
Sword of Once and Future is great in Feather the Redeemed. Having it in the deck gives fat protection colors (green would be better to have protection from but still) i NEED to target her with red/white so those colors are fine. Moreover, if i know she’ll be a target i can actually choose to not cast her and just leave stuff in the grave knowing I have tutorable cards like this sword to attach to any creature or cast her later and this combat damage trigger gets incredibly good mid to late game. Note: my feather deck is a spellsplinger/equipment go wide deck so it’s not really the worst thing to go without feather as again she gets targeted a lot. She just makes the deck churn way faster. It’s designed to outgrind rather than voltron kill a player then die to the other two.
A fairly underrated card, I’ve found, is Odric, Master Tactician. He’s definitely a card that needs support, but the ability to control which creatures block when you attack and how they block is very powerful, especially in formats that don’t run as many boardwipes.
I think the most underrated recent card is Barrow Blade from LTR. Cards gas and makes any voltron commander even better for super cheap
I agree that people really need to think through that card and how it works when reading it, but I don't know that it's severely underrated like you say, just a tad underrated.
50:58 Another part of the argument is the opposite of what Richard had said, Commander as a format was created for variance, so a card that let's you grab a bunch of lands without tutoring is a pretty big deal, same goes for Green Sun's Twilight.
Personally built a Tovolar Werewolf deck with no tutor effects, I run all ramp cards that play an addional land from hand since Tovolar draws so many cards.
Mishra's Research Deck is really good in VERY narrow scenario: red artifac resurrection
It is an artifact that can put itself in grave, and can get itself to the battlefield! It's perfect when you have your Blightsteel Colossus in grave and Welder on the battlefield, but you have nothing to swap
I know it's not really relevant for your guys's conversation but hoarding brood Lord is a one card combo in CEDH with saw in half.
I mean, it's a 2 card combo not 1 card combo. But I mean, who would lower themselves to playing something from Unfinity when you could do better.
My vote for an underrated card for commander is Majestic Genesis (Imposing Grandeur is another favorite of mine if you want to talk about it). It’s run in about 1% of valid decks with the most popular commander being Ghalta at 38%.
With the right commander, this card becomes “eight mana: put any permanents from the top 7, 8, 9 cards into play”. That’s insane. For a similar scenario with Genesis Wave, for eight mana, you look at the top five cards and can only put permanents 5 CMC or less into play. I think Majestic Genesis should go in pretty much every single deck with commanders 7+ CMC because you are probably ramping to that number anyway and it gives you incredible value.
I also like this over Last March of the Ents for a few reasons. Yes, March is un-counter-able, but people can respond by killing the biggest thing on board, drastically reducing its effect. Casting March onto an empty board becomes “eight mana put one or two creatures from your hand into play”. Majestic Genesis on the other hand is always going to get you a lot of value (once again, as long as the commander is big enough). You don’t need cards in hand or creatures on board. You just need eight mana and you can plop a bunch of creatures, lands, artifacts, etc. into play.
This card at least deserves 3% in my opinion (matching Genesis Wave) as a lot of commanders that could be running it simply aren’t. Maelstrom Wanderer comes down, you play Majestic next turn and destroy everyone. You play Majestic the turn before Ur-Dragon and get a pack of dragons and lands on the field. You play this off the Etali Primal Conquer ETB (magical Christmas land of course) and you feel great about life.
Anyways, rant over. I just love this card 😊
Hoarding Broodlord I think is rated and underpriced. If you can't use his etb multiple times it's better to just run a diabolic tutor. If you can use his etb multipe times there's still a chance that other cards do a better job like Sidisi, Undead Vizier or Burning-Rune Demon or some massive etb card draw like Regal Force or Keruga. That being said it does have the saw in half combo to draw half your deck for 10 mana and for 12 there's a blink line that tutors your entire deck (broodlord, felidar guardian, eerie interlude, glorious protector, cloudshift).
The fact that it's a 7/6 Dragon ain't bad though. Also that it instantly synergizes with any deck that is casting from exile.
I like open the way in greedy mana bases. Getting "4" random lands is going to help quite a bit.
Sword of Once and Future is perfect in the new Ojer Axalon
When Richard starts listing off the 10% of deck cards while vile duplication is 3% 🙈🙈🙈
As a person who built a Bess deck with literally only 1/1s, I can say from personal experience that symmetry matrix isn’t worth it. There’s no amount of mana paid into this artifact that makes the card draw worth it, the rate is always bad. I would much rather prefer a Tocasia’s welcome or a welcoming vampire.
Thank you for being a voice of reason, this was my exact thought when looking at 7 mana draw 3.
Imo Uba Mask is underrated, simply because of the face that the "at the end of your turn..." players make when all their counterspells and instants get banished to the shadow realm, and their card draw is soft locked. I wouldn't put it in random decks tho, i run it in ungabunga aggro decks that want to be casting whatever i draw anyways.
Symmetry matrix has been doing a lot of work for my monoW, its great.
Richard nailed symaty matrix. It is the colorless mentor of the meek, that said nowdays we often dont need to pay msna for draw effects. As someone with tokendecks in pretty much any variation of color i still dont realy play it anywhere.
Hope you guys see this comment… but damn, Sword of Once and Future is EXTREMELY GOOD. But in the right deck.
Mirko, Obsessive Theorist has flying, and gets a +1/+1 when you hit with Sword of Once & Future. You get to bin big creatures with Surveil or cards like Reanimate, Persist, Exhume, Chart a Course - the list goes on.
In a graveyard/Reanimator deck the card is insane. Especially since Mirko grows and reanimates bigger creatures each turn. Granted, I also play Blackblade Reforged. But always happy to see SOOF in my Mirko deck!
Open the Way is a game winner in my gate deck, and a great ramper in my big mana Gishath deck
I play Hoarding Broodlord in my Prosper deck and the convoke + Tutor is broken. Not to mention a flying 7 power. This card is balanced and powerful
Mirage Mirror is great, 2 mana to become the best card on the field for a turn is both very fun and usually very strong. Neurok stealth suit is awesome in anything where you might float 2 blue anyways, gives all your creatures soft hexproof since no one will want to waste targeted removal
Cracks me up when Richard says a card is weak against single target removal when he doesn't play any and says they are trash lol
Doesn't matter what he thinks if he still lives in a world where people play spot removal.
I'm playing Sarinth Steelseeker in Rocco Street Chef and it's an absolute house.
I recently added glimmer lens to Isshin, go wide, draw 2 cards on attack trigger.
Hoarding Broodlord is used alot in cEDH, it normally grabs saw in half if its not already in hand and then gets two combo pieces. It is probably a low percentage because its a tutor and can create bad feels for casual pods. Saw in half is the same percentage.
Sarinth Steeseeker in Brenard seems like its a great card and Crim saying no to this is kind of funny, he was pretty pumped to build Brenard IIRC