Great video, very timely for me- I have an old (2005?) CycleOps (Now owned by Saris it seems!) Magneto, one of the originals that at the time got good reviews, and a Vittoria TT tyre I've just dug out of the shed. I've only recently moved up a gear, technology wise, from a HR/Cateye "computer" to a Garmin 530 with the Speed Sensor 2 and a 105 4iiii power meter crank(rest of the groupset is Sora lol). Tonight I put it all together and had a go on it- 200w sure seems like it's in a lot lower gear than on the real road, and with no proper linkage to any apps I'm not really any further forward than 17 years ago- it would be my own timed intervals say, to power and/or HR and no real structure.... I'd been looking at the Saris H3 the last 2 nights especially as Halfords has it for a ridiculously cheap £474, and I'm tempted just to get it as it's a long old winter here in the Scottish Highlands and even with all the gear and the best intentions winter riding can be bleak... I think the money spent on Zwift or something similar would be money well spent. How has the H3 been ? Any issues? All the reviews I've seen seem to rate it (a few user error issues over some "top hat" over tightening behind the freehub??).....
I've got a dumb trainer. An Elite set of rollers. They have a reasonable road load W/kmh. I also have a Garmin Venu SQ Activity watch to monitor my heartrate and kCals used. Comparing road and rollers sessions, after the maths is done, I only forcibly pedal on the road for around 60% of the distance. Upshot is, the distance recorded on the trainer should be multiplied by 1.6 to get a road distance. Advice. To sim road riding, take freewheel breaks for 40% of the time on the trainer. You can sprint a bit between freewheels. Its the sprint intervals that build power !
Do you feel the wheel set you previously discussed was worth the money? I also would like you to get on a mountain bike and do some single track riding. You are really missing out on some wonderful fun if you haven’t been off road and see what an off road bike can enable you to do😁
Hi Leonard! Great vlogs! Keep it up! How about a vlog on Zwift and its possibilities? Show us how you do group rides, races, HIIT workouts in ERG mode, time trials, mountain biking, ftp test etc etc The list is endless. 👍🏻👍🏻
I had a dumb trainer several years ago. I hated it & gave it away after 10-15 uses. About two years ago I bought a used smart trainer. I was afraid to spend too much money after my previous experience. I have to say, I love my smart trainer on Zwift. It's now kind of fun. I bought an Elite QUBO Smart B+ (what a name) for $150 on ebay. For me, it was a steal.
I’m only just getting into cycling, mainly for weight loss, and have purchased a dumb trainer, a couple of cheap Xoss sensors and a Zwift subscription. I’ll give it a year and see how I fair and will upgrade to a smart trainer as I’m actually enjoying indoor cycling. Thanks for the tip about the rear tyre, I had been wondering why mine was close to bald!
Never used a dumb trainer, got a Direto X and I'm never looking back. Love erg mode for workouts, and it's smart resistance adjustments when I'm just riding in Zwift.
I started Zwifting using a dumb trainer for well over a year, using a cheap one from Aldi costing about £50 and it certainly gave me a work out. I was drawn to the hype of the smart trainers watched many videos and eventually decided on a wheel on trainer, I chose the Wahoo Snap. The difference between the two devices was as different as chalk and cheese. Both trainers gave you a workout but the smart trainer was more like riding on the road where the trainer release resistance when on the flat or virtual downhill but wow when hitting the hills you felt the resistance , so riding felt more road like and realistic. The bottom line for me the extra outlay on a smart trainer has made my indoor exercise during the British winter months more enjoyable.
Thanks. I assume one could get a recumbent on one but I am a “desert Jew”.... I have to go where it is warm. Outta here this weekend and heading south. My grandparents immigrated to US from Russia 120 years ago...settled in Boston then migrated to Miami Beach. Must be in the DNA. I hate the cold. Have a wonderful, healthy, prosperous New Year. Thanks for your wonderful vlogs this year. Keep up the good work. When this craziness ends come visit this summer on Cape Cod and enjoy the cycling and great food. Plenty of room to accommodate you and your wife.
If you have a smart trainer you can also use downloaded workout files. This will allow you to then follow a specified FTP intensity and ensure your training is very targeted 👍🏻
I have a dumb trainer, earlier this year I was looking at upgrading to Wahoo Kickr. I decided to stick with dumb trainer, because we just don't get enough bad weather to justify the cost. It was sometime last year when I last used my trainer. This morning was 44 degrees, no wind, partial sun and I rode 30 miles. Great vid though, very informative. Ride on.
@@jollygoodvelo Rarely. Out here in SoCal, I enjoy riding a great deal due to the weather and with the lockdown in effect again, It's a must to get out and ride, if not riding, I'm out running instead. That being said, I don't use a turbo trainer as a part of maintaining my fitness.
Great video. Money being an objective thing, my better half objecting to my spending it. I'll have to stick to my dumb trainer for a while longer or until she's not looking. A very Merry and Happy holidays to you and yours and to all.
@@jollygoodvelo My Xplova Noza S has a Simulation mode. I can take any Strava ride I've done and save it as a route. Then I can download it as a gpx file from Strava's website and import it into the Noza's own app on my phone/tablet. I can then ride the route with the trainer simulating the gradients and distances
I've always used Smart trainers from Tacx. I started out with the I-Magic. Tacx had their own 3D software because Apps like Zwift didn't exist yet. Then Tacx came out with the Fortius Trainer and to bait the sale also had new software with new worlds to ride in. Tacx introduced another software program which worked with their next flagship trainer the Neo. Tacx has other Smart trainers but I always went with the top models. I still use the Tacx Training Software for my exercises because why pay for something I already have. Zwift just doesn't impress me and Tacx nailed the 3D world graphics. It's a shame Tacx doesn't still offer that software because it is awesome.
I really want them to step up even more in this technology. I know some of the top end ones can raise the front end of the bike to simulate a climb. But I also want to be able to lean the bike over so it has a more realistic feel out of the seat. Also while I'm wishing I want more in terms of the video situation. I'd like to have like a 180 degree view as well as real locations like my fav climbs back Switzerland.
Thanks for the info about the different trainers. But I have a burning question: How do you manage to keep all those windows so clean? Who gets that delightful chore? Keep up the good work, Leonard!
Hi Leonardo After looking at your video, about trainers,i came to one conclusion,I preferred the whine bottles on the rack behind the bike. Ciao from Italy.
@@jollygoodvelo Nice but,you are missing the nice part.The hills,food and country side of Toscana. I will see you there next year,rain or shine. Un Abbraccio.Saverio.
@@jollygoodvelo I live on the coastal plane along the Mississippi Gulf Coast. My house elevation is 19 ft above sea level and I live in one of the highest places in town.
@@jollygoodvelo I started with a Cyclops Fluid Pro dumb trainer, moved on from that within 6 months to my first smart trainer, an Elite Rampa wheel on trainer, unfortunately this failed within 2 months with a known fault, so I returned the unit and upgraded to my first direct drive, an Elite Direto. This one didn't end well either as it developed a fault in the control board causing signal drop out. Elite were brilliant in that they sent me a replacement board which I fitted and it cured the problem. However I had soured on Elite trainers by then plus I needed to find the quietest trainer to keep the noise to a minimum. So I bought a Tacx Neo (it was an original model which Wiggle were selling off cheap because the Neo 2 had just come out). This is it I thought, top of the line trainer, no more problems. How wrong I was, within 10 weeks the trainer developed several faults including making horrible graunching noises, Neo got sent back to Wiggle who duly gave me a refund. So I finally arrived at buying a Wahoo Kickr along with a Climb when they were doing a bundle discount deal. That was fourteen months ago, the Kickr is silent, very consistent to ride, the climb works great. I'm a Wahoo convert now. I couldn't justify buying a Headwind but found a Vacmaster fan on Amazon thats just as good (except for the bluetooth control) for a lot less money. You won't regret it if you invest in a Kickr.
im a big fella like you 114 kg ,have a dumb trainer from Aldi ,but think im to heavy for it ,very noisy when i increase my speed, just ordered a pair of Xoss speed and cadence sensor's as cant afford a power meteor ,living in Australia im lucky ,can ride outdoors, just want something for wet weather days ,any suggestions pls
I’ve been using a Tacx Bluematic dumb turbo trainer up until recently. It all supported my eight just fine. Just under £100 in the U.K. so not sure what that would be in Australia.
Let me recommend rollers. Nothing better for high cadence drills and smoother pedaling. Now that's old school! Also I worry about the stress trainers put on the bike frame. You never know when the frame will suddenly fail on the road.
@@deanokelly29 The basic ones I have don't support this. If your bike has a power meter certainly this would work. The hills could be simulated by shifting to bigger gears. I'd have to guess this would be impractical. My view is who cares this time of year. Spend the money on your bike. Ride mtb in woods out of the wind. Ride slowly on road for light wind days. Rollers good if weather horrible for weeks. Just do something!
My dilemma is where to put my hard earned cash. Buy a better bike or buy a smart trainer? My bike is 12 years old but pristine as I’ve looked after it very well. It is heavy by modern standards, but so am I! Best way to get a lighter cycling system is for me to drop some pounds!
It’s a tricky one. I think the question you need to ask is how much do you ride on the road over winter? If you do it a lot, go for a better bike. If your bike gathers dust over the winter, go for a trainer.
@@jollygoodvelo my heart is more up for a new bike. I can ride on my dumb trainer ok and think I would benefit from a more up to date bike than popping my old bike on a swish smart trainer it’s a tough call though!
It also depends on your feelings about Zwift. For some folks the interactive social element is a big deal and really enhances things. You can benefit by getting minimally sensored and seeing if the experience is a good fit. Smart trainers will be going at a premium in the short term due to the lock downs, and they will only be getting more reliable and less expensive, so there are incentives to getting stuff that is less specialized and does double duty inside and out. Taking the time to get a good fit is important either way.
In Canada is winter for at least 6 months and the in door trainer will be the way to go. Thank you for the video.
Great advice as always. Thank you!
"heart's content"...good one!
Well explained. Thank you
Great video, very timely for me- I have an old (2005?) CycleOps (Now owned by Saris it seems!) Magneto, one of the originals that at the time got good reviews, and a Vittoria TT tyre I've just dug out of the shed. I've only recently moved up a gear, technology wise, from a HR/Cateye "computer" to a Garmin 530 with the Speed Sensor 2 and a 105 4iiii power meter crank(rest of the groupset is Sora lol). Tonight I put it all together and had a go on it- 200w sure seems like it's in a lot lower gear than on the real road, and with no proper linkage to any apps I'm not really any further forward than 17 years ago- it would be my own timed intervals say, to power and/or HR and no real structure.... I'd been looking at the Saris H3 the last 2 nights especially as Halfords has it for a ridiculously cheap £474, and I'm tempted just to get it as it's a long old winter here in the Scottish Highlands and even with all the gear and the best intentions winter riding can be bleak... I think the money spent on Zwift or something similar would be money well spent. How has the H3 been ? Any issues? All the reviews I've seen seem to rate it (a few user error issues over some "top hat" over tightening behind the freehub??).....
I've got a dumb trainer. An Elite set of rollers. They have a reasonable road load W/kmh.
I also have a Garmin Venu SQ Activity watch to monitor my heartrate and kCals used.
Comparing road and rollers sessions, after the maths is done, I only forcibly pedal on the road for around 60% of the distance.
Upshot is, the distance recorded on the trainer should be multiplied by 1.6 to get a road distance.
Advice. To sim road riding, take freewheel breaks for 40% of the time on the trainer.
You can sprint a bit between freewheels. Its the sprint intervals that build power !
Nicely explained - thanks
I've used trainers since the 80s. The new smart ones are remarkable n what they can do. Winter here is 5 mos. ride every day the Wahoo makes it fun!
Do you feel the wheel set you previously discussed was worth the money?
I also would like you to get on a mountain bike and do some single track riding. You are really missing out on some wonderful fun if you haven’t been off road and see what an off road bike can enable you to do😁
I do like the interactive component of zwifting, that'd be the one I'd be tempted to get
I suppose you could call it the market leader. They even do a free trial!
Hi Leonard!
Great vlogs! Keep it up!
How about a vlog on Zwift and its possibilities? Show us how you do group rides, races, HIIT workouts in ERG mode, time trials, mountain biking, ftp test etc etc The list is endless. 👍🏻👍🏻
Good ideas. It’s food for thought.
I just love that fact that there is a wine rack a few centimetres behind the back wheel! Italian vino????
Bikes and booze: makes the world go round. Some very nice Italian wine in there....and French......and Spanish....
My momma would beat me if I left the wine in the sun, though.
@@whazzat8015 Sun...in the U.K. in December???
I had a dumb trainer several years ago. I hated it & gave it away after 10-15 uses. About two years ago I bought a used smart trainer. I was afraid to spend too much money after my previous experience. I have to say, I love my smart trainer on Zwift. It's now kind of fun. I bought an Elite QUBO Smart B+ (what a name) for $150 on ebay. For me, it was a steal.
I’m only just getting into cycling, mainly for weight loss, and have purchased a dumb trainer, a couple of cheap Xoss sensors and a Zwift subscription. I’ll give it a year and see how I fair and will upgrade to a smart trainer as I’m actually enjoying indoor cycling. Thanks for the tip about the rear tyre, I had been wondering why mine was close to bald!
Sounds like a great set up. Enjoy.
Love a smart trainer but have you seen the price, wow!
They aren’t cheap but it’s a high tech piece of kit.
Never used a dumb trainer, got a Direto X and I'm never looking back. Love erg mode for workouts, and it's smart resistance adjustments when I'm just riding in Zwift.
I started Zwifting using a dumb trainer for well over a year, using a cheap one from Aldi costing about £50 and it certainly gave me a work out. I was drawn to the hype of the smart trainers watched many videos and eventually decided on a wheel on trainer, I chose the Wahoo Snap. The difference between the two devices was as different as chalk and cheese. Both trainers gave you a workout but the smart trainer was more like riding on the road where the trainer release resistance when on the flat or virtual downhill but wow when hitting the hills you felt the resistance , so riding felt more road like and realistic. The bottom line for me the extra outlay on a smart trainer has made my indoor exercise during the British winter months more enjoyable.
Great video. I’d buy one but I prefer just heading south to Florida to ride in the winter. Happy healthy holiday season to you and the family.
Bit tricky to get get a recumbent on one. Safe trip and have a great Christmas.
Thanks. I assume one could get a recumbent on one but I am a “desert Jew”.... I have to go where it is warm. Outta here this weekend and heading south. My grandparents immigrated to US from Russia 120 years ago...settled in Boston then migrated to Miami Beach. Must be in the DNA. I hate the cold. Have a wonderful, healthy, prosperous New Year. Thanks for your wonderful vlogs this year. Keep up the good work. When this craziness ends come visit this summer on Cape Cod and enjoy the cycling and great food. Plenty of room to accommodate you and your wife.
If you have a smart trainer you can also use downloaded workout files. This will allow you to then follow a specified FTP intensity and ensure your training is very targeted 👍🏻
I have a dumb trainer, earlier this year I was looking at upgrading to Wahoo Kickr. I decided to stick with dumb trainer, because we just don't get enough bad weather to justify the cost. It was sometime last year when I last used my trainer. This morning was 44 degrees, no wind, partial sun and I rode 30 miles. Great vid though, very informative. Ride on.
I think you have hit the nail on the head: how often do you use a turbo trainer and Virtual cycling apps?
@@jollygoodvelo Rarely. Out here in SoCal, I enjoy riding a great deal due to the weather and with the lockdown in effect again, It's a must to get out and ride, if not riding, I'm out running instead. That being said, I don't use a turbo trainer as a part of maintaining my fitness.
Great video. Money being an objective thing, my better half objecting to my spending it. I'll have to stick to my dumb trainer for a while longer or until she's not looking. A very Merry and Happy holidays to you and yours and to all.
Maybe Zwift some of those Tuscany rides? 😉
Great idea but I’m not sure how to do that or if it’s even possible. I’ll investigate.
@@jollygoodvelo My Xplova Noza S has a Simulation mode. I can take any Strava ride I've done and save it as a route. Then I can download it as a gpx file from Strava's website and import it into the Noza's own app on my phone/tablet. I can then ride the route with the trainer simulating the gradients and distances
Hey I just upgraded to an H3 too! It's really nice. Huge upgrade over an old mag trainer but my old dumb trainer got the job done for many years.
My basic one did a great job for 25 years or so but I think my days of using a dumb trainer are over now I have the H3
I've always used Smart trainers from Tacx. I started out with the I-Magic. Tacx had their own 3D software because Apps like Zwift didn't exist yet. Then Tacx came out with the Fortius Trainer and to bait the sale also had new software with new worlds to ride in. Tacx introduced another software program which worked with their next flagship trainer the Neo. Tacx has other Smart trainers but I always went with the top models. I still use the Tacx Training Software for my exercises because why pay for something I already have. Zwift just doesn't impress me and Tacx nailed the 3D world graphics. It's a shame Tacx doesn't still offer that software because it is awesome.
Try the training plans in Zwift. I am doing the "build me up" but I regretted I started it in 8 weeks instead of 10 weeks😂.
That’s a good idea. I’ll look into them, thanks.
Thanks Leonard, never considered a “smart” trainer, but I’ll price one see if the budget allows.
If you have a regular trainer it’s a bit of a step up. Really depends on how much virtual cycling you do.
Just priced one at $1000 dollars so I’m holding off! 😳
Might I recommend GPLama? His channel might point out some options that might otherwise go unnoticed
How did you come to chose the H3 over its competitors like the Wahoo, Elite, or Tacx?
I was asked to try it out by Raleigh and Saris.
I really want them to step up even more in this technology. I know some of the top end ones can raise the front end of the bike to simulate a climb. But I also want to be able to lean the bike over so it has a more realistic feel out of the seat. Also while I'm wishing I want more in terms of the video situation. I'd like to have like a 180 degree view as well as real locations like my fav climbs back Switzerland.
I think the easy solution to the climb simulation might be some kind of rocker plate.
The Tacx has some lean built in, and the Kickr climbs and can change the wind for those that want the experience.
Thanks for the info about the different trainers. But I have a burning question:
How do you manage to keep all those windows so clean?
Who gets that delightful chore?
Keep up the good work, Leonard!
We have someone do it every month!
Hi Leonardo
After looking at your video, about trainers,i came to one conclusion,I preferred the whine bottles on the rack behind the bike.
Ciao from Italy.
Hey Saverio, it’s my post ride reward!
@@jollygoodvelo Nice but,you are missing the nice part.The hills,food and country side of Toscana.
I will see you there next year,rain or shine.
Un Abbraccio.Saverio.
That would be fantastic. Some nice Tuscan food and wine. Bellissimo!
I enjoy riding my direct drive trainer on Zwift. It gives me the opportunity to ride hills other than bridges.
Do you live somewhere flat?
@@jollygoodvelo I live on the coastal plane along the Mississippi Gulf Coast. My house elevation is 19 ft above sea level and I live in one of the highest places in town.
Its a Wahoo Kickr and Climb for me, makes multiple hours on Zwift quite bearable.
I need to research the Wahoo Kickr.
@@jollygoodvelo I started with a Cyclops Fluid Pro dumb trainer, moved on from that within 6 months to my first smart trainer, an Elite Rampa wheel on trainer, unfortunately this failed within 2 months with a known fault, so I returned the unit and upgraded to my first direct drive, an Elite Direto. This one didn't end well either as it developed a fault in the control board causing signal drop out. Elite were brilliant in that they sent me a replacement board which I fitted and it cured the problem. However I had soured on Elite trainers by then plus I needed to find the quietest trainer to keep the noise to a minimum. So I bought a Tacx Neo (it was an original model which Wiggle were selling off cheap because the Neo 2 had just come out). This is it I thought, top of the line trainer, no more problems. How wrong I was, within 10 weeks the trainer developed several faults including making horrible graunching noises, Neo got sent back to Wiggle who duly gave me a refund. So I finally arrived at buying a Wahoo Kickr along with a Climb when they were doing a bundle discount deal. That was fourteen months ago, the Kickr is silent, very consistent to ride, the climb works great. I'm a Wahoo convert now. I couldn't justify buying a Headwind but found a Vacmaster fan on Amazon thats just as good (except for the bluetooth control) for a lot less money. You won't regret it if you invest in a Kickr.
Would someone be nice enough to mention prices, please? Thanks.
The problem is, when someone watches this vlog in five years time all the prices will have changed.
I use the dumb road method. It may or may not be as useful but the scenery is much better. Well, that is until you get hit by a bus or a cargo van.
I probably wouldn’t recommend the dumb method on the road. Being hit by bus would spoil your day somewhat.
im a big fella like you 114 kg ,have a dumb trainer from Aldi ,but think im to heavy for it ,very noisy when i increase my speed, just ordered a pair of Xoss speed and cadence sensor's as cant afford a power meteor ,living in Australia im lucky ,can ride outdoors, just want something for wet weather days ,any suggestions pls
I’ve been using a Tacx Bluematic dumb turbo trainer up until recently. It all supported my eight just fine. Just under £100 in the U.K. so not sure what that would be in Australia.
@@jollygoodvelo ty 7,000 ks in 11 mths on the road getting stronger each week not to shabby for 68 yrs
Let me recommend rollers. Nothing better for high cadence drills and smoother pedaling. Now that's old school! Also I worry about the stress trainers put on the bike frame. You never know when the frame will suddenly fail on the road.
Thinking of getting rollers they any good on swift
@@deanokelly29 The basic ones I have don't support this. If your bike has a power meter certainly this would work. The hills could be simulated by shifting to bigger gears. I'd have to guess this would be impractical. My view is who cares this time of year. Spend the money on your bike. Ride mtb in woods out of the wind. Ride slowly on road for light wind days. Rollers good if weather horrible for weeks. Just do something!
Trump Turbo Trainers vs Smart Turbo Trainers :)))
I wonder what he would ride?
A balance bike :)
About to dip my toe into the smart trainer world, but first to fix that puncture, how on earth do you get a flat on a dumb turbo, see you in Watopia
What tripod is your computer sitting on?
It’s a music stand I bought at my local dump for £2!
My dilemma is where to put my hard earned cash. Buy a better bike or buy a smart trainer? My bike is 12 years old but pristine as I’ve looked after it very well. It is heavy by modern standards, but so am I! Best way to get a lighter cycling system is for me to drop some pounds!
It’s a tricky one. I think the question you need to ask is how much do you ride on the road over winter? If you do it a lot, go for a better bike. If your bike gathers dust over the winter, go for a trainer.
@@jollygoodvelo my heart is more up for a new bike. I can ride on my dumb trainer ok and think I would benefit from a more up to date bike than popping my old bike on a swish smart trainer it’s a tough call though!
It also depends on your feelings about Zwift.
For some folks the interactive social element is a big deal and really enhances things. You can benefit by getting minimally sensored and seeing if the experience is a good fit.
Smart trainers will be going at a premium in the short term due to the lock downs, and they will only be getting more reliable and less expensive, so there are incentives to getting stuff that is less specialized and does double duty inside and out. Taking the time to get a good fit is important either way.
@@whazzat8015 thanks. It looks like it’s new bike then😊
@@richcrompton6891 Yeah, it’s looking like a new bike.