The 13 speed cog may work if you put in an original one from a cassette, plus add two thin spacer rings on both sides, to keep the plastic guide discs apart wide enough. Like the ones you get when you want to put a 10speed on a Tacx Neo… I also would do that with the Shimano 14 cog you showed. That would be a 1/10 mm spacer on each side in that case. Just measure the 13speed one and get the correct ones…
I have an Ekar 13s and it does work perfectly without any modification to the hub. I ride more than 150km last week on Zwift with the kick core and hub one, it is smooth, no strange sound. It is for me perfectly fine for me. Go for it!
From my understanding, it's a simple protocol that increases and decreases trainer resistance at defined increments. The cog itself doesn't do anything apart preventing from accidental chain slips. This begs the question surely they could simply release an integration to the companion app, the same way you can control the FTP base in Ergo mode. Not to say that the physical button is definitely better
@@atan0725 likely response from all the other manufacturers will be a similar device as it's not exactly rocket science, if you think about it it's almost a reverse ergo mode
This already exists, you need to be in a workout with erg off, and on the left of the pause button theres a ramp icon with up and down arrows which allow you to manually set resistance, the only issue is that it doesn't give you the full range of resistance so the max optional resistance can be a fair bit below what the trainer is capable of even in erg mode. You can also set this in zwift next to the erg offset buttons in the menu or + and - on the keyboard. Virtual gears seem like a more refined implementation of that
For me if they can somehow a plug and play belt drive solution over my existing chain rings and it ignore my rear derailleur I’d spend some money on a silent zwifting experience.
Shane, you made my day! This was the news I needed to know. The Zwift Cog seems to fit on a Wahoo Kickr. Let us know please when Zwift will open their software protocol and bring the virtual shifting to Wahoo & Co. Keep on your good work! Happy Weekend!
It'll fit onto your Wahoo Kickr but all you'll effectively have is a single-speed. The new Clicker only talks to Zwift hub trainers for it's gear changing, not to the Zwift Cog. Or am I missing something?
@@paulwalker6153If it’s like zwift play controller (which also has virtual shifting) I would think it just gets paired to your streaming device like normal… but someone needs to confirm! Who’s it gonna be… you or me 😂
Informative video as usual. It still surprises me Zwift doesn't ship this stuff for sale in Australia. You may be off the beaten track but there are still 26 million of you down under so I'd have thought it would still be a market worth being in. Hope they change that for Aussie customers soon.
Overhead camera on a white surface, I felt like I was watching rides of Japan 😄 I had a Zwift hub commercial pop in while you were comparing the cogs haha.
My question EXACTLY! If it works perfectly with HUB Classic and its standard cassette, then WHY bundle up with Cog? If virtual shifting can be upgraded by updating game version (1.50) and HUB Firmware (5.2) then new Cog is actually not necessary... 🙄👈⁉️
I was just thinking about this - the teeth are taller, so that if you're a gear up or down from the optimal one the chain won't derail. The taller teeth are able to hold it in line much better than the teeth on a regualr cog. So if you opt to change the cog from the original one, you'll have a much harder time keeping the chain on.
Why would it be any worse for chain retention compared to the regular geared cassette cogs that people have used since these trainers came into existence? What you say is true in essence, but I have never heard of anyone dropping a chain for any reason other than a poorly timed shift. That is user error and will be a non-issue if people just pick a 14t cog (solo or leave it on there with a normal cassette) and pedal along. Sure, there is potential improvement in retention in the single-speed cog design, but I fail to see it as an issue in this use case no matter what. TL:DR there is no reason to be concerned with chain drops on a trainer.
I think the tech is super cool! I still prefer my standard cassette - I kind of like the fact my shifting etc will always feel like it does on the road.
I really like it can’t wait for Garmin to support virtual shifting. I’m surprised that it wouldn’t work in erg mode only on any trainer with a shimano frehub for training sessions only.
It’s all in the software. This is just using the erg mode function to give you “gears” the hub part is just to make the rear a fixed gear to work with.
Somehow!!! stripped cassette fixing ring so was going to have to get a freehub anyway and the cassette would need replacing at some point also. Will make keeeping the chain clean easier also. I Was glad to hear my apple should pair HR, cadence, power and shifting.
This was my exact thinking too, was waiting to see if that was a question Shane would answer! Especially since I have a 12 speed and an 11 speed bike. Generally I only ride the 11 speed on the trainer, but know I could easily swap and do a session (for whatever reason) would be handy.
Yes, if you only even use ERG mode in an app or head unit, a single-speed conversion like the Cog can work. Pick the right cog that works for your chain/gear count (11 or 12 speed as key ones) and you can mix between bikes of different gear setups as needed.
@@Chader9 one appealing part of the 14T zwift cog is its compatibility with 8-12-speed chains if I understand it correctly. Not sure what the compatibility with chain speeds (e.g. 8-12) would be for the shimano 14t 11 speed cog shane uses in his video.
@@j0lynchconsidering that the Shimano cog is narrower than the Zwift one, the Shimano will work will 8-12 speed as well as the Zwift one. The main issue with chain to cog interface is when the cog is wider than the inner width of the narrow section of chain. If you use an 8-speed cog with an 11 or 12 speed chain, you will bind the chain onto the wider cog and actually risk pushing the links apart for a wider fit on the pain, which is a safety issue. So, using a narrower cog is basically a non-issue compared to a wider one that could present problems.
A Shimano freewheel, a 14 cog, and a bunch of spacers at each side and you can DYI one. You can 3D print the plastic cones if you are technically inclined.
You don't even need to do anything. you just need the zwift play controllers and you have virtual shifting. That 14 teeth cog is not a regular cog tho. It has taller teeth, which hold the chain on the cog better. The regular cogs have very short teeth, so the chain can easily slide from one cog to the other when shifting. This one has tall ones so that if you're one gear lower or hihger from the ideal one, it won't drop the chain. That's why it can support so many different shifting systems. If you DIY it, you will probably need to index the derailleur quite a lot for it to work and not drop the chain .
@@andraznovak6735I used a single speed cog 14 tooth cog for a single speed conversion kit. The tooth profile is tall and thick like the zwift cog. However, my chain keeps skipping when I put down power and I can’t figure out why. Would the plastic guards that come with the zwift cog make a difference ?
Then there is only one reason to buy a Wahoo. And that is that it works with the KICKR Climb. If my KICKR 2018 or the Climb is defective, I will choose the Zwift Hub and sell the device that is not defective. So either the KICKR 2018 or the Climb.
That zwift cog looks like a single speed BMX cog. I use one on my elite direto for my track bike adapter. It'd be great if it is. They're inexpensive, plentiful and very stout.
Yup, many of the BMX ones have a wider base to reduce chances of damage to aluminum freehub bodies. That and proper torque with metal spacers (even with thin cogs like a regular cassette has for the 14t range) can minimize risk of damage to the freehub splines.
Crap - I jumped the gun and assumed that the Zwift Cog/Click would be plug-n-play with a Wahoo Kickr, my assumption being that since Zwift is already controlling the gradient resistance in my Kickr, well then it will also control this virtual shifting thing in the Kickr too. But apparently I was wrong-o! 🙂 Oh well - back my new Cog/Clicker goes to Zwift. Dang. Great video, btw! Thanks!
Would be great if the COG could work on a Tacx Neo gen 1 but I suppose Garmin would still need to support virtual shifting. I don’t see that happening or Garmin providing firmware updates for gen 1’s anymore
Received my hub one yesterday, virtual gearing itself is great, but it's very noisy as Shane mentions, unusable for me, and vibrates much more than my kickr v5. Unfortunately it'll be going back, hopefully wahoo will be able to introduce virtual gearing asap.
There are countless "single-speed conversion kits" to buy or DIY if you just search a bit. Zwift has the shroud aspect that is unique here, but converting a geared freehub to single speed is an age old option... i.e. nothing new.
@@Chader9 I did mean printing a shroud similar to the Zwift one but as you say it’s probably not even needed if you can dedicate a bike to this and run single speed. That’s my plan now anyway!
@@niallsimpson OK. The shroud likely helps with bike install and chain alignment initially. It's not likely beneficial once installed, but I see it as a decent 'helper', especially for those that may not be as familiar with things like wheel changes with derailleurs.
I have seen a video from a guy where he just remove the plastic and kept just the cog on it. It was way more quiet like a normal cassette. So before buying another cog or a whole cassette, try to remove the plastic.
I find the distance between the gear ratios to be too big, especially for riding at higher speeds where you need to fine tune your cadence for optimum power. So, I really hope that Zwift will make changing this in the software possible in the future. How are your experiences regarding this?
1. If you are talking about the COG single-speed setup, that could actually be purchased and then removed from the Hub freehub body and installed on the regular HG freehub present on any other wheel-off trainer. That would give you the clean single-speed rear end at least, but not the latter part below. 2. If you are talking about the CLICK and virtual shifting, we don't know. It seems logical that this is a feature that other trainer makes could / would / should offer, but we really don't know if any/all of them will head this direction. It is possible that Zwift and those companies will come up with an agreement to allow the Click to control the other trainers in the same way it does the Hub, but we just don't know right now.
This may be a theoretical scenario, but does virtual gearing reduce the maximum simulated incline if you are using a high Trainer difficulty setting? Say, for example, you are in a virtual gear setting which requires the equivalent resistance of a 5 degree incline, and you hit a 13 degree slope at 100% TD. Total required resistance will be greater than the 16% rating of the Zwift hub. I recognise that in practice you won't be holding that gear for any length of time so the actual 16% functional threshold is probably more than enough for most people, whether its virtual gearing, simulated incline or a combo of both, but it will be a bigger issue if virtual gears come to other platforms where simulated inclines can be greater than Zwift.
Can I put a 20t cog on there. If I do, would it mess up my power / speed readings? I bought the adapter for my kids and he's basically stuck in gear 1 because it's too hard to pedals. The 8 speed cassette worked great for him. I was just trying to make it quieter.
A 20t cog will work. I’m not sure it’ll solve the resistance issue though. If you’re using a Kickr CORE you can adjust the wheel size setting within the Wahoo app to adjust the gearing/resistance.
Thanks so much for this! I just bought it, waiting for it to come in. So with the cog, is it basically like having a 1x setup? My dedicated indoor bike is an older Trek 1200 with a 3x9 drivetrain. If so, what is the recommended ring I set my bike to?
Yep. The tooth profile of the first generation 14t Cog can cause a little drivetrain noise. Swapping it for another standard cog will quieten things down with some setups.
Shane - great video as always. You touch on sound output but one particular question I have would be: is the setup quieter overall for neighbours of, and others sharing, an apartment with me? Gear shifts prior to the Cog + Click require a fair few mechanical movements such as lever clicks, derailleur shifts and chain skips, which all clack and crang, especially when racing routes with ever changing gradients. I assume that fewer [zero?] physical movements will be generally a far more peaceful experience for anyone next-door or downstairs, is this true? If so I'll buy this upgrade just out of consideration for others. However, will it just make the strange man grunts and wheezes even harder to explain? One last question, would it be a terrible idea to not use the plastic guides, I'm sure accidentally shifting the derailleur is the biggest risk, but let's say the derailleur is disconnected, would those long cog teeth be enough to keep the chain on? Cheers in advance!
There's no clunks/crunches when changing gears. For the quietest operation, I'd use a full cassette and put the bike in the 14t on the back and use the Play/Click to change gears.
3:57 thanks again Shane, so would you reckon swapping the factory cog out for an 11spd 14T shimano cog will help reduce the noise of the drive train if youre running an 11spd groupset?
@@gplama Thanks Shane. Just got my setup and slapped a shimano 14T cog on it. Indeed the loudest parts are the rest of my drive train, it's so loud I can barely hear any component of the trainer!
I would have chosen bigger cassette for this, the higher number of cogs you have, the lower chain wear is. This one is too small and will lead to premature chain replacement probably.
So with the gear ratio, if you then have a standard cassette on and shift between your real life gears, does that then extend the ratio to a huge amount somehow?
Isn't that then just ERG mode done differently? If you change physical gears, the trainer won't then adjust it's virtual resistance because how would it know?
My question would be: can you technically install it on a Wahoo Kickr if you're only using ERG mode? If it uses a shimano freehub, and the width is similar to a casette I see no reason why it wouldn't work? Yes I know virtual gears and the click won't work for shifting, but in ERG mode, you don't need that. What do you think Shane?
So, do I understand that cones and the fixed cog could be removed and install a regular casette if needed, right?. Reverting to a "Classic" version for using the bike shifters? (removing the clicker unit, of course)
@@gplamaI purchased the zwift play to upgrade my kickr core for virtual shifting. I have a 9 speed my wife has an 8 Speed. Rather than buying the click and cog, I purchased an identical single speed 14 tooth conversion cog and spacers for $20. Unfortunately, the chain skips on the teeth of the single speed cog teeth when I put down a decent amount of power on both 9 speed and 8 speed bikes. For the life of me I can’t figure it out why. The chain line is perfect. The cog is spaced to be in the position where the 14 tooth cog would be on the 9 speed cassette along the hub. I’m wondering if the plastic guards on both sides zwift cog would prevent this ? I don’t understand why this is happening.
Hi Shane Can i ask you somerhing about the new Zwift hub one? I am using the new s-works world cup mtb with the new sram xx eagle transmission. Now i saw the new zwift hub one and my question is…is it possible to use this trainer with my sworks mtb (sram xx - also a new chain) and if „yes“ what do i need? I hope you can answer - i really lime your channel. Greetings from austria
8:34 Campag Ekar, SRAM Flat Tops. My god, your viewers sure are loaded 💰 💰 💰 I believe this product is to make indoor more accessible. If you’re running latest Campag, SRAM AXS or Shimano Di2, you probably are riding a Kickr Move or something of that caliber 😅 this product is not for you.
I've an 11 speed bike. I've not managed to get the rear derailleur into gear 5/6 as suggested, but 4 or 7 (depending which way you count). I suspect it's because I fiddled with the cable adjust. I'm guessing I may have to take the bike off again, put my rear wheel on and set the bike up again. Then put it back on the Zwift Hub. Does this sound correct? Also, is there a calibration sequence or does the Zwift Hub just know what to do? Great videos by the way!
Hallo, ich habe mir dieses Set gekauft und lediglich den Swift Click am Lenker montiert. Die Schaltung habe ich vorne auf dem großen Blatt und hinten auf dem 14er Ritzel. Funktioniert einwandfrei. Ich werde jetzt auch mal probieren, nur mit den montierten Swift Play zu schalten und den Swift Click deaktivieren. Der COG ist bei mir überflüssig.
Currently on two smartbikes..., but always had a dream of a single speed Gates bike on a trainer... Would it be possible to fit a gates ring instead of the cog on this one ? ( video idea 😁)
Assuming you use a normal HG compatible belt pulley, space it appropriately for alignment to the front, and have tensioning via frame setup... a belt drive should work here.
If I may ask... I love my Neo 2T, but switching bikes (we are a family) would be much easier with the zwift hub. I am thinking about selling the neo, because I only see andavnateges for us. Is there anything I am missing? Happy to ready your thoughts!
Selling the neo means you are buying the Zwift HUB. Depending on room/ economy/+++, I would consider keeping the neo. It will reduce your need for bike switching (e.g. a larger bike permanently on the neo, smaller bikes/ switching on the hub)
Hey thanks a lot for the video ! Will this work with say the 13 or 15 tooth cogs from a 12 speed cassette for example ? I can imagine that someone would want to reuse old cogs that are not weared out.
If you aim to use a standard width cog (without a wider base), I highly recommend using metal spacers on the freehub. This will allow proper torque of the locknut, which is how we minimize freehub damage on a typical cassette assembly for these thin, "loose" cogs. Zwift gets away with less torque on the plastic spacer/shrouds setup since their cog has the extra wide base. So anyone hacking a setup of their own will benefit from metal parts and good torque.
I'm using virtual shifting with Zwift Plays and my normal 10 speed cassette. Since my optimal cog (most silent) is the 16 one, I stick with it and see no issues.
Since the hardware has no electronics does it mean that the Zwift click communicates only to the Hub by adjusting resistance? If that's the case is it the same protocol like what Garmin 840 (for example) uses when it is connected to smart trainer by adjusting trainer's resistance from Gamin 840's screen? And also this is still manual (virtual) shifting right?
The Click pairs to Zwift (not the trainer), so the communication chain for setting a virtual shift is as follows: Click shifter > Zwift app > Hub trainer resistance change It is similar in ways to an ERG mode resistance change, but this is unique in how it determines the front chainring via flywheel rpm early in a ride and then sets the base for the 24 gear ratios. That's needed since people could be using a small MTB gear (30t) or a large road gear (50t) which will mean the function of the virtual shifting will need to be tweaked in order to hit the same function range between use case like this. Yes, it is still manual in that the app won't shift until you press the Click button.
Without a tensioner of some kind you won't be able to get the bike on/off. Unless you size a chain while on the bike that'll never come off the trainer.
Save a couple watts off drive train! perfect drive line, no derailleur wrap around loss. I don't like my best bike beat on trainner anyway. Have lots of old decent bikes with some rear dropout adjustment and quick links could be tried. All To much , yeah but I may fool with it.
Hi Shane, great video - I am looking at either the Zwift Hub at £549 or the Wahoo Kickr Smart Trainer V5 at £499 - which would you choose (is Wahoo likely to adopt this update?) I already have the Zwift Play...
In my opinion, it's not a matter of Garmin, Wahoo, or any other smart trainer company 'adopting this virtual shifting.' IMHO, Zwift could be implemented for any EPG smart trainer compatible device. Shane, what do you think?
@@josemanuellopezdona6040 Trainers will have to know how to receive the virtual gear command. There's nothing in ANT+ that I'm aware of that does this... or BLE FTMS.... I'll have more information on this in the coming days.
Is the chain tensioner easy to fit/adjust? I have an old road bike which I was going to refurb for turbo use... but can now use it bare bones instead. Much cheaper and easier.
@@Chader9 great stuff, will order one now. I'm sure you can spend much less but as every pedal stroke will pass through it I'll go for the gold standard. How do I choose between up/down spring orientation?
@@neil_down_south the Surly instructions cover it well, but here are my $0.02 for reference. If possible, I like the Push Up idea since it gives the greatest amount of chain wrap around the cog. This helps prevent any skips if the chain gets slack in high power efforts and sprints. But not all bikes and chain/cog combos will allow for the up direction, so they use the down one. I would suggest trying up and use that if it works. surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/Surly_Singleator_Instructions.pdf
now if they can make one to put track bikes on........ so i can get a freewheel but train on my actual race bike virtual gearing has 3 gears larger then a standard 53/11 so thats def a bit upper range. conversely .75 is REALLY small and should enable nearly anyone to pedal "reasonably" comfortably up adz or ven top. heck even the radio tower might be more normal cadences lol
If virtual shifting works with a normal cassette, what user benefit does the hub bring? Could it be that profit margins are hit by Zwift including a cassette?
It simplifies things with an otherwise complex product. A lot of us know all about speeds/compatibility/etc. This removes that friction and gives people an easy option for something that should just work, easily. It also stops people using a 10spd cassette on a 9/11/12 speed bike and complaining it doesn't shift properly, even though they shouldn't be shifting. It's some insurance against having to provide a load of customer support.
@@gplama thanks! So for the informed cyclist no benefit. For Zwift, lower costs and reduced support tickets. Can’t blame them for that. That adding a cassette for quieter use is possible is a good thing too.
Sorry if this has been asked before. But is there any advantage of using the cog instead of the cassette. I use the Play controllers to shift gears and I use only one bike! i just wonder if I should get a cog or simply stay with my recent configuration.
I think that for single bike households the main advantage is that it's marginally easier to get your bike on and off and there's no wear on your road cassette. But this advantage is negated if you use other platforms as well as Zwift because they don't do virtual shifting yet so you need a cassette to ride on them (except in ERG mode I suppose or if you're ok being in fixie mode). I'm almost certainly going to try out virtual shifting once I find a way to get a cheap shifter but most likely will use a cassette as I'd like to keep the option of using other platforms from time to time. But given that the cog I'll use in virtual shifting mode will wear out prematurely since I won't be physically shifting to other ones, I'll probably put an alternate cog in it from an old cassette or that I buy as a standalone so that it doesn't affect outdoor ride shifting.
Check the rear hub spacing. It'll need to be at least 130mm to fit onto the Hub. More details on the Zwift site here: support.zwift.com/en_us/zwift-hub-bike-compatibility-SJb5xCVgs
So if I've understood this correctly - I can use my hub classic (with cassette), switch on virtual shifting and use my play controllers to change gears. As long as I keep the bike in the same gear on the cassette, then I don't need to get the Zwift cog - right?
Hi any idea if they will add race mode to wahoo kicker later versions as in v4 and down seeing that zwift hub has been able to do it though and software update ?
I"m in the market for buying a new trainer, should I get the Zwift hub one or the classic? They are the same price. I have some spare 105 cassettes at home. Am I better of getting the one.l so I have that piece of hardware ?
As most here probably know Wahoo and Zwift announced that the Zwift Hub One is being discontinued and will be replaced by the new Wahoo Core Zwift One, which is basically a Core with a Zwift Hub One single cog hub instead of the standard Core hub. However they claim that the Hub One upgrade kit that allowed you to upgrade the older Zwift Hub classic to be a Zwift Hub One cannot be used to upgrade a regular Core to a Core Zwift One, because their hubs are incompatible, and that a Core-specific upgrade kit will eventually be released. Looking at the Zwift Hub One 14T cog next to a standard Shimano-splined 14T cog I can see why. The Shimano cog has a wider/narrower spline pair whereas the Zwift cog has identically sized spline pairs, so while a Shimano cog might fit onto the Zwift One hub, the Zwift One cog won't fit onto a Shimano splined hub. Odd that they'd do this but that's the way it's designed. That said, though, it should be relatively easy to jerry-rig one's own one 14T cog "hub" onto a Shimano splined hub, using a single 14T Shimano splined cog and two equally sized spacers on either side, with some sort of twin "bowls" to mimic the design of the Zwift Hub One "hub". Of course you'd still need some way to shift virtually, with the 2-button Clicker that comes with the $80 upgrade kit or the $99 Play controllers being the only known ways of doing that at present (but hoping that someone cracks the Bluetooth code for shifting to allow 3rd party controllers to be made).
I’m not sure actually - I thought that Zwift automatically works out what fixed ratio you are in by looking at flywheel speed and cadence - to account for difference in chainrings etc - and then sets the ratios accordingly. Following this logic, the number of teeth on the cog won’t change anything?
Whilst this wasn't answered directly, I believe it would work - from the sounds of things the click controllers communicate with the zwift hub rather than zwift itself which suggests that the firmware in the zwift hub understands what's going on.
No, as of now (per the video info), virtual shifting only works in Zwift, with the HUB trainer. It may change in the future and it appears the JetBlack Volt may be the first non-Zwift trainer to be added (since it is the same physical trainer with different firmware).
@@syrus3k "from the sounds of things the click controllers communicate with the zwift hub rather than zwift itself" You have that backwards. The Click pairs with Zwift, that then controls the Hub trainer resistance in reaction to the virtual shift. - Click shifter > Zwift app > Hub trainer resistance change. Zwift is the middle person in the exchange. This makes the most sense if we consider that it opens the door for a Click and virtual shifting potential being used for trainers other than the Hub. The Click could possible use ANT+ to pair to a trainer since that is a common channel for most trainers. That would sidestep the limits on BLE communication that exist for most trainers. But I think their use of Zwift as the go-between is likely the right solution with more potential down the line.
This and other trainers have a 130mm minimum axle spacing. Most track bikes I've seen have 120mm spacing, so you'd need one of those conversion axle spacers to use one like that with this trainer.
Since the cog has no smarts in it, does that mean that someone can use virtual shifting with a Zwift Play controller and a Zwift Hub with a normal cassette?
You can mount a COG onto the Neo freehub, but the CLICK shifter control will NOT work. The only reason to consider a COG for a non-Zwift Hub trainer is if you want a single-gear solution to use ERG mode in some app other than Zwift.
I just upgraded my Wahoo Snap setup to a Zwift Hub One and I'm finding it to be really noisy with my 11 speed Di2 drive train. Could that be due to the deeper and wider cog ? Have you noticed a difference after installing it ? I guess I'll try to put an 11 speed cassette to see if it helps...
Mine was really noisy too. Not Di2 but 11 speed. After working with support who said the noise was typical or normal I went back to the cog and now ride in peace. I see that you can put a shimno cog in place of what is provided but at this point I do not think it is worth the bother. Sadly there was no response from customer support when I went to the cog other than that is great. I bout the hub system and all I use is the clicker. I honestly was shocked that they did not offer a replacement or some kind of refund or discount.
Customer support contacted me often but it seemed to mostly stock responses to adjust derailleur and cable. Then after several attempts they said it was normal. I took it apart a few times thinking maybe I missed something. In the end no consideration that I bought a hub that I can’t use. At this point I am not interested in bothering with it but someone who planed to use different bikes with different cogs I would not bother unless you ride with really loud music
Actually SRAM AXS question rears its head again. Is the SRAM hub compatible with the AXS. if so you could use the free hub, the AXS cassette and take advantage of the virtual gears... thoughts?
@@gplamaActually strange thing : on the french website there was a "compability page" with an column for the classic hub and the hub one. In the hub one cells it was marked that it's not compatible with a Sram cassette. Can't find this page anymore tho
@@gplama I just received an answer from them : First of all, I must inform you that your bike is not compatible with the standard Zwift configuration. For this reason, your bike is not compatible with Zwift Cog, which is not compatible with the XD/XDR system. To make your configuration compatible, I recommend that you also order an XDR freewheel body. Then install an XDR freewheel body and a cassette with the same ratio.
GP Lama is so much better than watching the news.
I ordered this system after I saw your review. Supposed to arrive today. Can't wait to see how it works with my Cannondale Adventure One.
Such a fiendishly simple device!
If you had control easy to build.
The 13 speed cog may work if you put in an original one from a cassette, plus add two thin spacer rings on both sides, to keep the plastic guide discs apart wide enough. Like the ones you get when you want to put a 10speed on a Tacx Neo…
I also would do that with the Shimano 14 cog you showed. That would be a 1/10 mm spacer on each side in that case. Just measure the 13speed one and get the correct ones…
that would be awesome for the ekar users out there
I have an Ekar 13s and it does work perfectly without any modification to the hub. I ride more than 150km last week on Zwift with the kick core and hub one, it is smooth, no strange sound. It is for me perfectly fine for me. Go for it!
From my understanding, it's a simple protocol that increases and decreases trainer resistance at defined increments. The cog itself doesn't do anything apart preventing from accidental chain slips. This begs the question surely they could simply release an integration to the companion app, the same way you can control the FTP base in Ergo mode. Not to say that the physical button is definitely better
Yup that's what i am thinking too and if that's the case my Garmin 840 can also do resistance change in my Tacx Flux S by clicking on its display.
@@atan0725 likely response from all the other manufacturers will be a similar device as it's not exactly rocket science, if you think about it it's almost a reverse ergo mode
This already exists, you need to be in a workout with erg off, and on the left of the pause button theres a ramp icon with up and down arrows which allow you to manually set resistance, the only issue is that it doesn't give you the full range of resistance so the max optional resistance can be a fair bit below what the trainer is capable of even in erg mode. You can also set this in zwift next to the erg offset buttons in the menu or + and - on the keyboard.
Virtual gears seem like a more refined implementation of that
I was tyring to get reverse ergo mode in my head also. Hey, you could set an RPM (if had reason!)@@albe56
Thank you. This was exactly what I needed to know !
Shane … tnx heaps for all that info. You amaze me how you keep all that in your head and explain it in clear Ozzie
🍻🦘🇦🇺👍🏼
For me if they can somehow a plug and play belt drive solution over my existing chain rings and it ignore my rear derailleur I’d spend some money on a silent zwifting experience.
Shane, you made my day! This was the news I needed to know. The Zwift Cog seems to fit on a Wahoo Kickr.
Let us know please when Zwift will open their software protocol and bring the virtual shifting to Wahoo & Co.
Keep on your good work!
Happy Weekend!
It'll fit onto your Wahoo Kickr but all you'll effectively have is a single-speed. The new Clicker only talks to Zwift hub trainers for it's gear changing, not to the Zwift Cog. Or am I missing something?
@@paulwalker6153 Yes, it doesn‘t talk to Wahoo or any other smart trainer for now. Let‘s wait and see …
@@paulwalker6153If it’s like zwift play controller (which also has virtual shifting) I would think it just gets paired to your streaming device like normal… but someone needs to confirm! Who’s it gonna be… you or me 😂
Informative video as usual. It still surprises me Zwift doesn't ship this stuff for sale in Australia. You may be off the beaten track but there are still 26 million of you down under so I'd have thought it would still be a market worth being in. Hope they change that for Aussie customers soon.
Overhead camera on a white surface, I felt like I was watching rides of Japan 😄
I had a Zwift hub commercial pop in while you were comparing the cogs haha.
Thank you for this. My biggest interest is in buying just the Click!
My question EXACTLY! If it works perfectly with HUB Classic and its standard cassette, then WHY bundle up with Cog? If virtual shifting can be upgraded by updating game version (1.50) and HUB Firmware (5.2) then new Cog is actually not necessary... 🙄👈⁉️
I was just thinking about this - the teeth are taller, so that if you're a gear up or down from the optimal one the chain won't derail. The taller teeth are able to hold it in line much better than the teeth on a regualr cog. So if you opt to change the cog from the original one, you'll have a much harder time keeping the chain on.
I can't imagine a scenario where the chain falling off would be an issue?? Especially with the plastic guides.
Why would it be any worse for chain retention compared to the regular geared cassette cogs that people have used since these trainers came into existence?
What you say is true in essence, but I have never heard of anyone dropping a chain for any reason other than a poorly timed shift. That is user error and will be a non-issue if people just pick a 14t cog (solo or leave it on there with a normal cassette) and pedal along. Sure, there is potential improvement in retention in the single-speed cog design, but I fail to see it as an issue in this use case no matter what.
TL:DR there is no reason to be concerned with chain drops on a trainer.
I think the tech is super cool! I still prefer my standard cassette - I kind of like the fact my shifting etc will always feel like it does on the road.
I really like it can’t wait for Garmin to support virtual shifting. I’m surprised that it wouldn’t work in erg mode only on any trainer with a shimano frehub for training sessions only.
Zwift still does not ship to Australia. Great video as always..cannot believe cannot buy these products in the 21C!!!!
already want to build one myself, only need a freehub, 1 cog and spacers ;-)...
Yup, DIY single-speed conversion ideas aplenty around the web.
It’s all in the software. This is just using the erg mode function to give you “gears” the hub part is just to make the rear a fixed gear to work with.
They should add multi shift through a long press (eg up or down 3 gears). Would be handy if you get to a hill or a sprint
I asked the same question in Desfit’s video and someone replied it does support fast shifting (press and hold) on the click and/or Zwift controllers.
They already do that.
Somehow!!! stripped cassette fixing ring so was going to have to get a freehub anyway and the cassette would need replacing at some point also. Will make keeeping the chain clean easier also. I Was glad to hear my apple should pair HR, cadence, power and shifting.
It looks like Zwift could be implement virtual gears for all epg compatible trainers (such as IndieVelo does right now, and free). What do you think?
yes, they could be implemented with up/down gears using only the +- keyboard. I have to test a bit the virtual gearing in Indievelo
Since I only use ERG mode on Zwift, this might be a good thing to pick up and install on my Kickr.
This was my exact thinking too, was waiting to see if that was a question Shane would answer! Especially since I have a 12 speed and an 11 speed bike. Generally I only ride the 11 speed on the trainer, but know I could easily swap and do a session (for whatever reason) would be handy.
Yes, if you only even use ERG mode in an app or head unit, a single-speed conversion like the Cog can work. Pick the right cog that works for your chain/gear count (11 or 12 speed as key ones) and you can mix between bikes of different gear setups as needed.
@@Chader9 one appealing part of the 14T zwift cog is its compatibility with 8-12-speed chains if I understand it correctly. Not sure what the compatibility with chain speeds (e.g. 8-12) would be for the shimano 14t 11 speed cog shane uses in his video.
@@j0lynchconsidering that the Shimano cog is narrower than the Zwift one, the Shimano will work will 8-12 speed as well as the Zwift one.
The main issue with chain to cog interface is when the cog is wider than the inner width of the narrow section of chain. If you use an 8-speed cog with an 11 or 12 speed chain, you will bind the chain onto the wider cog and actually risk pushing the links apart for a wider fit on the pain, which is a safety issue.
So, using a narrower cog is basically a non-issue compared to a wider one that could present problems.
Wish the Kickr Core couple have virtual gears. Using a mtb as i do i always run out of gears.
First ride with the upgrade / retrofit. Click kept dropping out. My setup is an iPad and companion app. All firmware is up to date. Thx!
A Shimano freewheel, a 14 cog, and a bunch of spacers at each side and you can DYI one. You can 3D print the plastic cones if you are technically inclined.
I was thinking exactly the same!
You don't even need to do anything. you just need the zwift play controllers and you have virtual shifting. That 14 teeth cog is not a regular cog tho. It has taller teeth, which hold the chain on the cog better. The regular cogs have very short teeth, so the chain can easily slide from one cog to the other when shifting. This one has tall ones so that if you're one gear lower or hihger from the ideal one, it won't drop the chain. That's why it can support so many different shifting systems. If you DIY it, you will probably need to index the derailleur quite a lot for it to work and not drop the chain
.
@@andraznovak6735I used a single speed cog 14 tooth cog for a single speed conversion kit. The tooth profile is tall and thick like the zwift cog. However, my chain keeps skipping when I put down power and I can’t figure out why. Would the plastic guards that come with the zwift cog make a difference ?
Then there is only one reason to buy a Wahoo. And that is that it works with the KICKR Climb. If my KICKR 2018 or the Climb is defective, I will choose the Zwift Hub and sell the device that is not defective. So either the KICKR 2018 or the Climb.
That zwift cog looks like a single speed BMX cog. I use one on my elite direto for my track bike adapter. It'd be great if it is. They're inexpensive, plentiful and very stout.
Yup, many of the BMX ones have a wider base to reduce chances of damage to aluminum freehub bodies. That and proper torque with metal spacers (even with thin cogs like a regular cassette has for the 14t range) can minimize risk of damage to the freehub splines.
Crap - I jumped the gun and assumed that the Zwift Cog/Click would be plug-n-play with a Wahoo Kickr, my assumption being that since Zwift is already controlling the gradient resistance in my Kickr, well then it will also control this virtual shifting thing in the Kickr too. But apparently I was wrong-o! 🙂 Oh well - back my new Cog/Clicker goes to Zwift. Dang. Great video, btw! Thanks!
Would be great if the COG could work on a Tacx Neo gen 1 but I suppose Garmin would still need to support virtual shifting. I don’t see that happening or Garmin providing firmware updates for gen 1’s anymore
Where can you find the 14T cog that you mentioned would make the unit quieter and smoother without disabling an entire cassette by removing one?
Received my hub one yesterday, virtual gearing itself is great, but it's very noisy as Shane mentions, unusable for me, and vibrates much more than my kickr v5. Unfortunately it'll be going back, hopefully wahoo will be able to introduce virtual gearing asap.
Out of interest, try use a standard Shimano 14t cog (if you’re using a Shimano group).
its only noisy because of this cheap peace of metal. At the end a chain sounds on every trainer the same when its well adjusted
the zwift cog looks like any normal wide engagment cog you'd getin a single speed conversion kit.
well done Zwift for keeping it nice and simple. Your fellow Aussie CZcamsr Hugh Jeffreys would (I think) applaud the user serviceablilty.
I’d say it won’t be long before there’s 3D printed spacers to do this on a standard free hub with a single cog from a cassette.
There are countless "single-speed conversion kits" to buy or DIY if you just search a bit. Zwift has the shroud aspect that is unique here, but converting a geared freehub to single speed is an age old option... i.e. nothing new.
@@Chader9 I did mean printing a shroud similar to the Zwift one but as you say it’s probably not even needed if you can dedicate a bike to this and run single speed. That’s my plan now anyway!
@@niallsimpson OK. The shroud likely helps with bike install and chain alignment initially. It's not likely beneficial once installed, but I see it as a decent 'helper', especially for those that may not be as familiar with things like wheel changes with derailleurs.
@@niallsimpson Could one remove the derailleur and shorten the chain on a dedicated bike in addition to converting to a single speed?
this is oddly similar to something I had designed for single speed cross conversions so you didnt have to buy a separate wheel.
I have seen a video from a guy where he just remove the plastic and kept just the cog on it. It was way more quiet like a normal cassette. So before buying another cog or a whole cassette, try to remove the plastic.
Do you know what would prevent it to work on a bike with today a 7speed cassette from shimano ?
I find the distance between the gear ratios to be too big, especially for riding at higher speeds where you need to fine tune your cadence for optimum power. So, I really hope that Zwift will make changing this in the software possible in the future.
How are your experiences regarding this?
Can we expect competitors such as Wahoo to follow suit and release their own ‘hub’ addition for their existing trainers 🤔
1. If you are talking about the COG single-speed setup, that could actually be purchased and then removed from the Hub freehub body and installed on the regular HG freehub present on any other wheel-off trainer. That would give you the clean single-speed rear end at least, but not the latter part below.
2. If you are talking about the CLICK and virtual shifting, we don't know. It seems logical that this is a feature that other trainer makes could / would / should offer, but we really don't know if any/all of them will head this direction. It is possible that Zwift and those companies will come up with an agreement to allow the Click to control the other trainers in the same way it does the Hub, but we just don't know right now.
This may be a theoretical scenario, but does virtual gearing reduce the maximum simulated incline if you are using a high Trainer difficulty setting? Say, for example, you are in a virtual gear setting which requires the equivalent resistance of a 5 degree incline, and you hit a 13 degree slope at 100% TD. Total required resistance will be greater than the 16% rating of the Zwift hub. I recognise that in practice you won't be holding that gear for any length of time so the actual 16% functional threshold is probably more than enough for most people, whether its virtual gearing, simulated incline or a combo of both, but it will be a bigger issue if virtual gears come to other platforms where simulated inclines can be greater than Zwift.
Just spotted that when trying the shimano cog there is no spacer so would it not be loose?
Any information about plans to make it EKAR combatible?
Discussed in this video - You’ll need to use a different cog.
Wonder if there will be something similar to allow belt drive bikes.
I’m quite surprised that thick cog would work with a 12-speed chain
Chains from 9 speed upwards all have the same inner dimension so it works fine - it's the outside that varies (they have thinner plates, etc)
Can I put a 20t cog on there. If I do, would it mess up my power / speed readings? I bought the adapter for my kids and he's basically stuck in gear 1 because it's too hard to pedals. The 8 speed cassette worked great for him. I was just trying to make it quieter.
A 20t cog will work. I’m not sure it’ll solve the resistance issue though. If you’re using a Kickr CORE you can adjust the wheel size setting within the Wahoo app to adjust the gearing/resistance.
Thanks so much for this! I just bought it, waiting for it to come in. So with the cog, is it basically like having a 1x setup? My dedicated indoor bike is an older Trek 1200 with a 3x9 drivetrain. If so, what is the recommended ring I set my bike to?
If I was going for a single ring for this, I'd go a 42T on the front.
Can you hold down the shift buttons for multi-shifting a la di2?
Yes.
aside from lubing the chain, if i swap out the 14t to 15t cog, will it make it quieter? thanks
Yep. The tooth profile of the first generation 14t Cog can cause a little drivetrain noise. Swapping it for another standard cog will quieten things down with some setups.
Not selling the controller because you could build your own easily? Right? If I am not confused.
Shane - great video as always. You touch on sound output but one particular question I have would be: is the setup quieter overall for neighbours of, and others sharing, an apartment with me? Gear shifts prior to the Cog + Click require a fair few mechanical movements such as lever clicks, derailleur shifts and chain skips, which all clack and crang, especially when racing routes with ever changing gradients. I assume that fewer [zero?] physical movements will be generally a far more peaceful experience for anyone next-door or downstairs, is this true? If so I'll buy this upgrade just out of consideration for others. However, will it just make the strange man grunts and wheezes even harder to explain? One last question, would it be a terrible idea to not use the plastic guides, I'm sure accidentally shifting the derailleur is the biggest risk, but let's say the derailleur is disconnected, would those long cog teeth be enough to keep the chain on? Cheers in advance!
There's no clunks/crunches when changing gears. For the quietest operation, I'd use a full cassette and put the bike in the 14t on the back and use the Play/Click to change gears.
A belt drive free hub could easily be built. Just need a belt and front beltwheel. Glad I don't need to worry about neighboors!@@gplama
3:57 thanks again Shane, so would you reckon swapping the factory cog out for an 11spd 14T shimano cog will help reduce the noise of the drive train if youre running an 11spd groupset?
Yep. Using a standard Shimano 14t cog seems to quieten it down a little.
Perfect. What about putting in some noise dampening foam into the open spaces within the plastics caps as well?
@@gplama Thanks Shane. Just got my setup and slapped a shimano 14T cog on it. Indeed the loudest parts are the rest of my drive train, it's so loud I can barely hear any component of the trainer!
Great video. What happens if I use it with a standard cassette? Will the virtual shifting works the same?
Works the same. Just keep it in the 14t cog.
I would have chosen bigger cassette for this, the higher number of cogs you have, the lower chain wear is. This one is too small and will lead to premature chain replacement probably.
It cannot be too high because the flywheel speed will be too low to control power.
Will make keeping the chain clean easier and chain not going thru multiple turns on derailleur should decrease wear.
wenn du das Rad nur indoor verwendest, nützt sich nichts ab
So with the gear ratio, if you then have a standard cassette on and shift between your real life gears, does that then extend the ratio to a huge amount somehow?
No, the trainer adjusts to the gear you're in and provides resistance to achieve the gear ratios listed in the video.
Isn't that then just ERG mode done differently? If you change physical gears, the trainer won't then adjust it's virtual resistance because how would it know?
@@mrwezbo yeah, it's like erg mode, but rather than adjusting to a specific wattage it's adjusting to a virtual gear ratio.
My question would be: can you technically install it on a Wahoo Kickr if you're only using ERG mode? If it uses a shimano freehub, and the width is similar to a casette I see no reason why it wouldn't work? Yes I know virtual gears and the click won't work for shifting, but in ERG mode, you don't need that. What do you think Shane?
The spacers and cog will install on any other Shimano HG hub.
Hi Shane, will you do a review of Van Rysel D500?
Unlikely.
So, do I understand that cones and the fixed cog could be removed and install a regular casette if needed, right?. Reverting to a "Classic" version for using the bike shifters? (removing the clicker unit, of course)
Yes
Excelente video!
Este accesorio es compatible con el Tacx NEO 2T?
No. Please contact Garmin/Tacx support and let them know it's a feature you'd like to see on their trainers.
@@gplama Muchas gracias!
if you put a standard shimano 14t will it be quieter than the cog supplied?
So you could basically just install one of those single speed conversion kits and not have the plastic bit rattle around?
Sure
@@gplamaI purchased the zwift play to upgrade my kickr core for virtual shifting. I have a 9 speed my wife has an 8 Speed. Rather than buying the click and cog, I purchased an identical single speed 14 tooth conversion cog and spacers for $20. Unfortunately, the chain skips on the teeth of the single speed cog teeth when I put down a decent amount of power on both 9 speed and 8 speed bikes. For the life of me I can’t figure it out why. The chain line is perfect. The cog is spaced to be in the position where the 14 tooth cog would be on the 9 speed cassette along the hub. I’m wondering if the plastic guards on both sides zwift cog would prevent this ? I don’t understand why this is happening.
Is it a problem running the mounted Zwift cog with Shimano HG+ chains - as they are quite particular for Shimano?
Hi Shane
Can i ask you somerhing about the new Zwift hub one?
I am using the new s-works world cup mtb with the new sram xx eagle transmission.
Now i saw the new zwift hub one and my question is…is it possible to use this trainer with my sworks mtb (sram xx - also a new chain) and if „yes“ what do i need?
I hope you can answer - i really lime your channel.
Greetings from austria
8:34 Campag Ekar, SRAM Flat Tops. My god, your viewers sure are loaded 💰 💰 💰
I believe this product is to make indoor more accessible. If you’re running latest Campag, SRAM AXS or Shimano Di2, you probably are riding a Kickr Move or something of that caliber 😅 this product is not for you.
Can I use it with a track bike?
Technically, if I have the good chain size, it's gonna work
Track bikes typically have narrow rear dropouts that won’t work with any smart trainer.
I've an 11 speed bike. I've not managed to get the rear derailleur into gear 5/6 as suggested, but 4 or 7 (depending which way you count). I suspect it's because I fiddled with the cable adjust. I'm guessing I may have to take the bike off again, put my rear wheel on and set the bike up again. Then put it back on the Zwift Hub. Does this sound correct?
Also, is there a calibration sequence or does the Zwift Hub just know what to do?
Great videos by the way!
Hallo, ich habe mir dieses Set gekauft und lediglich den Swift Click am Lenker montiert. Die Schaltung habe ich vorne auf dem großen Blatt und hinten auf dem 14er Ritzel. Funktioniert einwandfrei. Ich werde jetzt auch mal probieren, nur mit den montierten Swift Play zu schalten und den Swift Click deaktivieren. Der COG ist bei mir überflüssig.
Can you use the shifter buttons along with an Elite Sterzo?
No.
So I have a SRAM flat top chain. Will I need to get a different cog so it doesn’t prematurely wear the chain? Where do I get a sram cog
Currently on two smartbikes..., but always had a dream of a single speed Gates bike on a trainer...
Would it be possible to fit a gates ring instead of the cog on this one ? ( video idea 😁)
Assuming you use a normal HG compatible belt pulley, space it appropriately for alignment to the front, and have tensioning via frame setup... a belt drive should work here.
If I may ask... I love my Neo 2T, but switching bikes (we are a family) would be much easier with the zwift hub. I am thinking about selling the neo, because I only see andavnateges for us. Is there anything I am missing? Happy to ready your thoughts!
Selling the neo means you are buying the Zwift HUB. Depending on room/ economy/+++, I would consider keeping the neo. It will reduce your need for bike switching (e.g. a larger bike permanently on the neo, smaller bikes/ switching on the hub)
Hey thanks a lot for the video ! Will this work with say the 13 or 15 tooth cogs from a 12 speed cassette for example ? I can imagine that someone would want to reuse old cogs that are not weared out.
Should be fine. The virtual ratios might be a little off if you’re not using a 14t.
If you aim to use a standard width cog (without a wider base), I highly recommend using metal spacers on the freehub. This will allow proper torque of the locknut, which is how we minimize freehub damage on a typical cassette assembly for these thin, "loose" cogs.
Zwift gets away with less torque on the plastic spacer/shrouds setup since their cog has the extra wide base. So anyone hacking a setup of their own will benefit from metal parts and good torque.
I'm using virtual shifting with Zwift Plays and my normal 10 speed cassette. Since my optimal cog (most silent) is the 16 one, I stick with it and see no issues.
Since the hardware has no electronics does it mean that the Zwift click communicates only to the Hub by adjusting resistance? If that's the case is it the same protocol like what Garmin 840 (for example) uses when it is connected to smart trainer by adjusting trainer's resistance from Gamin 840's screen? And also this is still manual (virtual) shifting right?
The Click pairs to Zwift (not the trainer), so the communication chain for setting a virtual shift is as follows:
Click shifter > Zwift app > Hub trainer resistance change
It is similar in ways to an ERG mode resistance change, but this is unique in how it determines the front chainring via flywheel rpm early in a ride and then sets the base for the 24 gear ratios. That's needed since people could be using a small MTB gear (30t) or a large road gear (50t) which will mean the function of the virtual shifting will need to be tweaked in order to hit the same function range between use case like this.
Yes, it is still manual in that the app won't shift until you press the Click button.
Have you been able to test this using a SRAM 12 spd set up since that chain is different that say a Shimano 11 spd chain.
Disregard i should have watched the whole video 🤣
Could you have dedicated use without derailleur with chain length and if needed a tensioner?
Without a tensioner of some kind you won't be able to get the bike on/off. Unless you size a chain while on the bike that'll never come off the trainer.
Save a couple watts off drive train! perfect drive line, no derailleur wrap around loss. I don't like my best bike beat on trainner anyway. Have lots of old decent bikes with some rear dropout adjustment and quick links could be tried. All To much , yeah but I may fool with it.
Hi Shane, great video - I am looking at either the Zwift Hub at £549 or the Wahoo Kickr Smart Trainer V5 at £499 - which would you choose (is Wahoo likely to adopt this update?) I already have the Zwift Play...
Your call on that one. If Wahoo or any other company adopt this virtual shifting, I’ll cover it here.
I recently got the hub, it's very good. It doesn't make the climb portal any easier though lol
In my opinion, it's not a matter of Garmin, Wahoo, or any other smart trainer company 'adopting this virtual shifting.' IMHO, Zwift could be implemented for any EPG smart trainer compatible device. Shane, what do you think?
@@josemanuellopezdona6040 Trainers will have to know how to receive the virtual gear command. There's nothing in ANT+ that I'm aware of that does this... or BLE FTMS.... I'll have more information on this in the coming days.
Could you use this with a non zwift trainer in erg mode?
$79 for plastic, a 14 tooth cog, and a standard shimano freehub that costs $40? So about $39 for plastic and a cog?
Or $0 for the Cog and $79 for the Click shifting device it comes with.
What about track / fixed gear / single speed frames with 120mm dropout?
Is is possible to use them with the Zwift Trainer and Cog?
No. The Hub needs at least a 130mm rear axle width.
@@gplama damn… this would be a quite simple and cheap indoor training solution.
Thanks for the answer.
Is the chain tensioner easy to fit/adjust? I have an old road bike which I was going to refurb for turbo use... but can now use it bare bones instead. Much cheaper and easier.
Yes, cone wrench and main hex is all it takes. The Singleator can be set for push up or down directions too.
@@Chader9 great stuff, will order one now. I'm sure you can spend much less but as every pedal stroke will pass through it I'll go for the gold standard. How do I choose between up/down spring orientation?
@@neil_down_south the Surly instructions cover it well, but here are my $0.02 for reference. If possible, I like the Push Up idea since it gives the greatest amount of chain wrap around the cog. This helps prevent any skips if the chain gets slack in high power efforts and sprints. But not all bikes and chain/cog combos will allow for the up direction, so they use the down one. I would suggest trying up and use that if it works.
surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/Surly_Singleator_Instructions.pdf
now if they can make one to put track bikes on........ so i can get a freewheel but train on my actual race bike
virtual gearing has 3 gears larger then a standard 53/11 so thats def a bit upper range. conversely .75 is REALLY small and should enable nearly anyone to pedal "reasonably" comfortably up adz or ven top. heck even the radio tower might be more normal cadences lol
old school XTR M950 8-speed: 24 granny in front and 32 largest sprocket on the cassette = 0,75x and yep you are correct about the radio tower
👌🏻👌🏻👍🏻
If virtual shifting works with a normal cassette, what user benefit does the hub bring? Could it be that profit margins are hit by Zwift including a cassette?
It simplifies things with an otherwise complex product. A lot of us know all about speeds/compatibility/etc. This removes that friction and gives people an easy option for something that should just work, easily.
It also stops people using a 10spd cassette on a 9/11/12 speed bike and complaining it doesn't shift properly, even though they shouldn't be shifting. It's some insurance against having to provide a load of customer support.
@@gplama thanks! So for the informed cyclist no benefit. For Zwift, lower costs and reduced support tickets. Can’t blame them for that. That adding a cassette for quieter use is possible is a good thing too.
Sorry if this has been asked before. But is there any advantage of using the cog instead of the cassette. I use the Play controllers to shift gears and I use only one bike! i just wonder if I should get a cog or simply stay with my recent configuration.
I think that for single bike households the main advantage is that it's marginally easier to get your bike on and off and there's no wear on your road cassette. But this advantage is negated if you use other platforms as well as Zwift because they don't do virtual shifting yet so you need a cassette to ride on them (except in ERG mode I suppose or if you're ok being in fixie mode).
I'm almost certainly going to try out virtual shifting once I find a way to get a cheap shifter but most likely will use a cassette as I'd like to keep the option of using other platforms from time to time. But given that the cog I'll use in virtual shifting mode will wear out prematurely since I won't be physically shifting to other ones, I'll probably put an alternate cog in it from an old cassette or that I buy as a standalone so that it doesn't affect outdoor ride shifting.
I've got a 3x7 Shimano Altus bike left in the garage, will there be any possibility to use it with the new cog? Thanks
Check the rear hub spacing. It'll need to be at least 130mm to fit onto the Hub. More details on the Zwift site here: support.zwift.com/en_us/zwift-hub-bike-compatibility-SJb5xCVgs
Thanks! And keep up with your awesome videos :) @@gplama
So if I've understood this correctly - I can use my hub classic (with cassette), switch on virtual shifting and use my play controllers to change gears. As long as I keep the bike in the same gear on the cassette, then I don't need to get the Zwift cog - right?
Correct.
@@gplama perfect! You’ve saved me a few pounds there Sir 👌🏾
Hi any idea if they will add race mode to wahoo kicker later versions as in v4 and down seeing that zwift hub has been able to do it though and software update ?
Unlikely.
I"m in the market for buying a new trainer, should I get the Zwift hub one or the classic? They are the same price. I have some spare 105 cassettes at home. Am I better of getting the one.l so I have that piece of hardware ?
Entirely your call.
As most here probably know Wahoo and Zwift announced that the Zwift Hub One is being discontinued and will be replaced by the new Wahoo Core Zwift One, which is basically a Core with a Zwift Hub One single cog hub instead of the standard Core hub.
However they claim that the Hub One upgrade kit that allowed you to upgrade the older Zwift Hub classic to be a Zwift Hub One cannot be used to upgrade a regular Core to a Core Zwift One, because their hubs are incompatible, and that a Core-specific upgrade kit will eventually be released.
Looking at the Zwift Hub One 14T cog next to a standard Shimano-splined 14T cog I can see why. The Shimano cog has a wider/narrower spline pair whereas the Zwift cog has identically sized spline pairs, so while a Shimano cog might fit onto the Zwift One hub, the Zwift One cog won't fit onto a Shimano splined hub. Odd that they'd do this but that's the way it's designed.
That said, though, it should be relatively easy to jerry-rig one's own one 14T cog "hub" onto a Shimano splined hub, using a single 14T Shimano splined cog and two equally sized spacers on either side, with some sort of twin "bowls" to mimic the design of the Zwift Hub One "hub".
Of course you'd still need some way to shift virtually, with the 2-button Clicker that comes with the $80 upgrade kit or the $99 Play controllers being the only known ways of doing that at present (but hoping that someone cracks the Bluetooth code for shifting to allow 3rd party controllers to be made).
Will changing the cog to one with more or fewer teeth impact the virtual gearing translation accuracy resulting in an unfair advantage in races?
Likely it’ll change the virtual ratios. The power reported should change.
I’m not sure actually - I thought that Zwift automatically works out what fixed ratio you are in by looking at flywheel speed and cadence - to account for difference in chainrings etc - and then sets the ratios accordingly. Following this logic, the number of teeth on the cog won’t change anything?
Will the virtual shifting work with other virtual platforms such as MyWhoosh, Trainer Road, etc?
Whilst this wasn't answered directly, I believe it would work - from the sounds of things the click controllers communicate with the zwift hub rather than zwift itself which suggests that the firmware in the zwift hub understands what's going on.
No, as of now (per the video info), virtual shifting only works in Zwift, with the HUB trainer.
It may change in the future and it appears the JetBlack Volt may be the first non-Zwift trainer to be added (since it is the same physical trainer with different firmware).
@@syrus3k "from the sounds of things the click controllers communicate with the zwift hub rather than zwift itself"
You have that backwards. The Click pairs with Zwift, that then controls the Hub trainer resistance in reaction to the virtual shift.
- Click shifter > Zwift app > Hub trainer resistance change.
Zwift is the middle person in the exchange.
This makes the most sense if we consider that it opens the door for a Click and virtual shifting potential being used for trainers other than the Hub. The Click could possible use ANT+ to pair to a trainer since that is a common channel for most trainers. That would sidestep the limits on BLE communication that exist for most trainers. But I think their use of Zwift as the go-between is likely the right solution with more potential down the line.
Can it be used in other softwares like MyWoosh or Rouvy?
Not at this point in SIM mode. ERG will work with any platform that supports it. I demonstrated TrainerRoad compatibility in a previous video.
Have you tried it on a bike ? is compatible with real wheels ?
Given it’s a HG cog… yes… but it’d be about as useful as eating it.
Can it work with a track bike horizontal dropouts?
This and other trainers have a 130mm minimum axle spacing. Most track bikes I've seen have 120mm spacing, so you'd need one of those conversion axle spacers to use one like that with this trainer.
any reason for traditional 7- speed bikes not to work, I know it doesnt say its compatible but how different are 7/8 speed chains
7 speed bikes usually don't have 130mm spacing in the rear, so they are not compatible with Zwift Hub to begin with.
I have cold spread them but it is not easy! @@brofessor3016
Since the cog has no smarts in it, does that mean that someone can use virtual shifting with a Zwift Play controller and a Zwift Hub with a normal cassette?
I wouldn't have any doubt that it can be used like that. Zwift doesn't have any way to detect the type of cassette you're using
yes
Can I mount It on my tacx neo? Will It work?
You can mount a COG onto the Neo freehub, but the CLICK shifter control will NOT work. The only reason to consider a COG for a non-Zwift Hub trainer is if you want a single-gear solution to use ERG mode in some app other than Zwift.
if we want we can transform ziwft hub one to zwift hub ?
Install a standard cassette.
It is posibolle install a standart casette ?
@@TelmoRogado Yes. Answered at 5:49 in this video.
if I put a 14T cog from a sram cassette would that keep the chain happy?
12 spd AXS cassettes aren’t HG spline compatible. Nor do the cogs seperate, iirc.
curious, if you put a 14t cog on will it make the hub quieter in general? I find it to be exceptionally noisy@@gplama
I just upgraded my Wahoo Snap setup to a Zwift Hub One and I'm finding it to be really noisy with my 11 speed Di2 drive train. Could that be due to the deeper and wider cog ? Have you noticed a difference after installing it ?
I guess I'll try to put an 11 speed cassette to see if it helps...
Mine was really noisy too. Not Di2 but 11 speed. After working with support who said the noise was typical or normal I went back to the cog and now ride in peace. I see that you can put a shimno cog in place of what is provided but at this point I do not think it is worth the bother. Sadly there was no response from customer support when I went to the cog other than that is great. I bout the hub system and all I use is the clicker. I honestly was shocked that they did not offer a replacement or some kind of refund or discount.
@@tonyp4536 yes I'd ended up doing that too. It's hard to believe there aren't more reports about the terrible rattling noise made that contraption!
Customer support contacted me often but it seemed to mostly stock responses to adjust derailleur and cable. Then after several attempts they said it was normal. I took it apart a few times thinking maybe I missed something. In the end no consideration that I bought a hub that I can’t use. At this point I am not interested in bothering with it but someone who planed to use different bikes with different cogs I would not bother unless you ride with really loud music
Actually SRAM AXS question rears its head again. Is the SRAM hub compatible with the AXS. if so you could use the free hub, the AXS cassette and take advantage of the virtual gears... thoughts?
That’ll work. 👌🏼
@@gplamaActually strange thing : on the french website there was a "compability page" with an column for the classic hub and the hub one. In the hub one cells it was marked that it's not compatible with a Sram cassette. Can't find this page anymore tho
@@Alex-px7cg The freehub the Cog ships with isn't compatible with any SRAM XDR cassette. That might have been the reference.
@@gplama I just received an answer from them :
First of all, I must inform you that your bike is not compatible with the standard Zwift configuration. For this reason, your bike is not compatible with Zwift Cog, which is not compatible with the XD/XDR system. To make your configuration compatible, I recommend that you also order an XDR freewheel body. Then install an XDR freewheel body and a cassette with the same ratio.
@@Alex-px7cg Well... That's interesting.
Is the Zwift Hub even available in Australia?
Not yet.
@@gplama He said “yet”… yay!
Bloody hell it’s like dating. “She said there’s a chance!”
But srsly, is it coming?
They’ll have to offer it here one day. When is still unknown.
@@gplama unless you're gplama 😢. Seems our Aussie product tester isn't that influential yet re zwift play etc