We Need To Talk About These Track Redesigns…
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Gran Turismo 7 April 2023 Update: Introducing Apricot Hill! - This fan favourite circuit has been reimagined as a Super Speedway located on the Moon.
Please enjoy!
Music (in order):
Interplanetary Spark - ZENTA (Yakuza 0)
Hypnosis - Isamu Ohira (Gran Tursimo 4)
Glamorous Lips - KEMMEI (Gran Turismo 6)
Dolphin Shoals - Atsuko Asahi (Mario Kart 8 Deluxe)
Moon Over the Castle (Groove OST) - Masahiro Andoh (Gran Turismo 2)
Mirage - KEMMEI (Gran Turismo 6)
Silver Stream - Tetsukazu Nakanishi (Rage Racer)
Channels credited:
/ @paragleiber
/ @rynogt4
/ @awiibo
/ @zocker1990
/ @swerutufon
/ @xtimelessgaming
/ @playscopetimeline
/ @saurabh611
/ @numbuh_4wd
/ @thepsgtv
/ @tpl-motorsport
/ @gtracingyt
/ @rsr9377
/ @motogamestv
/ @hsgautomotive
/ @mattj155
Sources:
gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/...
www.gtplanet.net/gt7-more-cla...
www.gtplanet.net/forum/thread...
www.gtplanet.net/forum/thread...
www.gtplanet.net/fia-boss-ste...
0:00 Introduction
2:34 High Speed Ring
3:34 Trial Mountain
7:34 Deep Forest
10:07 Making the Circuits More 'Realistic'
11:54 Grand Valley Highway
17:17 GT's History with Track Redesigns
20:01 Why Redesign Them At All? - Hry
I might be the only one but what I really want is more street circuits. I love the challenge of having no room for error while trying to drive as fast as possible.
racing on street circuits in GT4 will always be one of my favorite things to do
Hong Kong from GT4, Tokyo special (the one with the Polyphony building ^i dont remember the name^) Opera from GT5 and Madrid from GT6
I will love those coming back
ur mom wants street circuits
THIS. gosh i miss Costa di Amalfi
@@FurryestX Tokyo R246 (It also has a Honda dealership where you can see their robot, Asimo, in the back)
Still miss the Special Stage night tracks, they would look fantastic with modern lighting
Yep. Special Stage Route 5, 7, 11, and X all are still legendary.
They would redesign those track to make them be 99% tunnels
Special stage route 5 clubman is my favorite
The rome night too
That was something I noticed was missing right away when playing GT7, I have so many fond memories of 5 and 7 in specific so I would love to see them back
The only thing I really miss in Grand Valley is the big blue bridge :(
Also the city in the background from the PS1 era
Isn't it now at St. Croix?
@@clintwestwoodrp Yeah I saw st. croix footage and assumed it was grand valley when I got the game. I think it’s why they went with highway one redress, else it would have looked like a repeat track. There’s another european one that looks a lot like apricot hill, so curious to see if that one gets a redress too if they decide to put it in the game.
@@clintwestwoodrp st croix sucks tho
@@bigbosssnakecorn8834 Grand Valley Highway in GT7 looked like downgraded Grand Canyon from GT4 PROLOGUE, man. 😂
I remember being surprised Laguna seca was actually a real life circuit. I thought gt designed it
And after when I saw an actual race there on TV, it blew my freaking mind.
Good Lord it happened so long ago, now I'm sad...thx man😢
i grew up on gt5, i must have like 3k+ hours on it.
when i was younger i didn’t know any of the track names, i just knew that was monza because of the track map. i remember being surprised when the nordschleife or monza was an actual track and not just original
First saw Laguna Seca as a WorldSBK round in 1998 or so, then played it on Gran Turismo 2 a few months later
I remember thinking a lot of the Forza tracks were real when I was younger. I think I sussed out that Bernese Alps and Maple Valley wasn't real, but I thought Iberian Raceway, Sedona, Susnet Peninsula (I'm not sure if its the correct name, its the one that is a lot like Daytona but the start finish is on the back straight instead of the tri-oval corner) and the Ladera Test Track were real.
I remember that The Crew 1 had the track (even though its nowhere near close to the actual track)
And Seattle was one of the best street circuits real or fictional. The layout of streets, the position of curbs all felt just right.
Yep. Dont forget GT3 Rome Circuit and Super Speedway in USA and Motegi Superspeedway in GT4. Also not featured in 7.
Seattle was very nice track for rp. because the parking lot. As a child when me and my brother droved in that track, we always drove our cars to parking lot and just chilling there. Good memories.
@@purwantiallan5089Motegi is a real circuit, actually
The Seattle track was technically real, as it was based on real streets in Seattle. Sadly if the track came back and they kept that ideology, part of the track is now gone.
Fairly sure that Kaz stated in an interview that city tracks take a lot of manhours to develop because of the complex geometry surrounding them. Most city tracks in the series are laid out on real roads (with the exception of the SSRs and Amalfi), so getting all of the trackside architecture right would be an insane amount of work.
If the car models take so many months to make, immagine remaking the New York track with all details, laser-scanning and whatnot
Not having Special Stages Rt 11 and Rt 5 were huge disappointments for me.
No SSR11 with yellow light overpass from GT1 has been my disappointment since GT3
Yeah it's so disappointing they mis like 99% of the tracks anyone cares about.
If they add it then they could probably integrate them into Tokyo Expressway
@@jackraptor695 me too. Even Ayumu Uehara also ever used the SSR11 in GT1 and 3.
@@tilburg8683 no SSR5, 11, and 7 in GT7 makes me wanna NO BUY. Also online only for even playing offline career mode.
I really miss Apricot Hill, Autumn Ring and Midfield Raceway!
I had actually forgotten about the street circuits disappearing until you mentioned it.
Speaking of redesigns... I preferred the GT2 version of Rome to the GT4 onwards version. Ideally having both would be spot on.
And endurance races! Bring them back too!
And more cars. Like interesting ones such as the Lotus Carlton. And fast estates.
I could swear Spoon was in the game as a manufacturer at launch but vanished at a later update.
Yeah man where's our little starting race in Autumn Ring Mini? I remember doing the race over and over again with the Mazda Demio to afford a better car. But now we can get a Mitsubishi GTO right from the start and only change cars for specific races. I remember people could get the 500.000 credits from pre-order bonus which was just dumb.
Ive got my weird lore about this grand valley being like the original layout of grand valley back in like 1950 (hence the update featuring old cars) before slowly it was turned into a full on race track for 1997
Sort of like how Bathurst in the 1960s looks like some terrifying janky race up a hill in Australia and now it looks a lot more like a normal road course.
14:00 completely agree. Should have been named California Route 68 or something
Should've gone for Route 69 but whatever...
Well, it is placed into the area of Highway #1, so the "Highway-1" part makes perfectly sense. As a newbie to the game, I haven't got nostalgic feelings about the "Grand Valley" name. So, for me, this is all fine. ;)
@@everpuremusic i envy you in a sense :)
i still miss the sunset on laguna seca in GT3, it really lets the track stand out even as a real-life circuit.
plus that hdeat haze seeing through the headlights
As for Trial Mountain, you hit the nail on the head. I actually don't mind how long the straights are but the final chicane was ruined and they could have done what they wanted without ruining it, just as you said. I also agree with your take on the tunnel losing it's character.
As a kid, that final chicane saved my skin sooo many times in older GTs
You gotta admit the final chicane was a totally unrealistic launch ramp most of the time. I think they wanted more realistic tracks and made the changes they did (like deep forest getting a hairpin at the end).
@@DVSnark As this video explained, that's only useful for faster cars/online competition. In the career mode (especially with slower cars), it just sucks the fun out of the game and makes grinding for cash harder to do quickly and easily. The latter being the obvious motivation for doing it as corroborated by the overall construction of the game. At least until you unlock the Le Mans race, you're not supposed to be able to get game credits quickly and easily by playing the game, you're supposed to buy those credits with several times more real money than the game cost.
@@Where_is_Waldo I think the game is much more geared towards race cars and track oriented sports cars (or tuned to such) than in the past. Thus the lack of city street courses as well. As far as progression I haven’t had to spend a dime to get to level 50. It is uneven though and a lot of the game imo suffers from not knowing exactly what it is vs what it’s been in the past. For sure the basic car experience is not really there outside of stepping stones. It does give you the cars you need too.
@@DVSnark Level 50 collector status? No, I don't imagine you'd have to pay for that. I'd understand building the game to only suit race cars in online gameplay since that seems to be the way that online gameplay leans (I'm no expert on that, I've never played GT online) but it seems like they're going beyond neglecting the offline gameplay and the people who fell in love with the game when online play wasn't even an option. I first played Gran Turismo (1) when I was nine years old on my older brother's playstation and I was instantly hooked. I truly loved the series for the first four (numbered) games (I didn't own a PS3, just briefly tried GT5 Prologue at a friend's place) but GT Sport and GT7 are not at all the series I fell in love with.
I see no reason they should go out of their way to ruin the career mode gameplay for the fans who built the success of the series by completely redirecting the focus of career mode and the way the opponents function, greatly reducing their speed if you fall (or start) far behind and greatly increasing their speed if you get too far ahead (among other problems yet). I can't tell you how many times I was massively leading a race near the end only to have an opponent zoom past me from way back just before the end like it was need for speed underground 1. Is that supposed to be fun? No, I'd say it's supposed to make you think "I already paid for the game, I wonder if online mode is any good" (correct me if I'm wrong but I believe online mode is pay to play) or "I already paid for the game, maybe paying for game credits so I can actually get the cars I want before I've finished the game without grinding the same boring race for ten hours straight just to get one or two great cars would actually be worth it".
I miss the good old days of GT2 when the cheating didn't involve on the fly changes to physics or opponent skill during the race, back when they just gave the computerized opponents extra power beyond the limits for the race because they sucked at driving so it really just made the race even and if you had the ability to beat the race then you just had the ability to beat it. It didn't punish the driver for being a mediocre driver (like I am) driving a car tuned to compensate for mediocre driving (like I do). Tuning a good car was a relevant skill as much as driving well. The only thing I ever took pride in while playing Gran Turismo was tuning a car so well it could beat cars you wouldn't expect it to (even with me driving) and it's not just PP that gets in the way of that, it's the way the opponents abilities can change on the fly to be whatever it takes to keep up... and the hive mind the opponents share, causing the opponents further from the front to slow down excessively while blocking you to create a bigger gap between you and first as part of the manufactured difficulty. I will only briefly mention the credits reward (for lack of a more accurate term) for custom races. I can understand making it less than what you would get for comparable racing time spent in career mode races but it might as well just be arcade mode with no prize at all. I could go on ranting but this comment is long enough. In short, they didn't just ignore the long term fans, they insulted us... and they seem to have no intention to change course from that.
We want some original circuits back!!
- Grand Valley Speedway/East
- Special Stage 11 (with possibly integration with Stage 5)
- MIdfield Raceway
- Red Rock Valley
- Grindelwald
- Gran Turismo 2 Rome Circuit
- Cote d'azur (Monaco)
- Cita Di Aria
- Costa di Amalfi
- Test Course (Yatabe)
I loved Red Rock Valley and Rome Circuit. I'm surprised Red Rock Valley didn't make it into GT3 or GT4.
Esteban Ocon also mentioned the old trial mountain chicane at the gt world nations final, saying it was fun. That chicane is iconic, so many fun memories.
Deep forest raceway still looks like a "Deforest raceway" to me since I first saw it in-game. I wish there was some more tree coverage on certain sections kinda like the older games lol.
Or maybe I just can't fully recall how much tree coverage there was before-
honestly the best looking foresty track (atleast in GT7) is ironically Trial Mountain... Deep Forest doesnt look all that foresty
Original SSR11 was my favourite track. It was challenging as hell for a child.
Racing against decked out Lancer EVOIII on SSR11 in special event is still a nightmare even today...
Jap ver. IA-7 license on Griffith 500 had 3 seconds tougher bronze requirement then US/EU version!
I would love it if they added them back in
I view it as a Mario Kart Retro track situation.
Most of the retro tracks in Mario Kart 8 were given anti-gravity sections to spice them up, and the designs and scale were vastly changed compared to the original tracks, but the core layout and hints were still there.
I didn’t grow up with Gran Turismo, but I do think this is the best analogous situation.
The decision to remove the chicane section from Special Stage Route 11 must have happened later in GT3 development as there's a few videos of demos of the game floating around on CZcams using the original layout of SS R11.
I am more neutral towards the changes. A part of me does miss the old versions to some degree, but it is also nice to see how the changes actually effect the racing for better or worse.
High Speed Ring is a gem no matter what GT it's in due to the simplistic nature of the track.
Trial Mountain's new Chicane, while I agree does ruin the flow slightly, does make for some intense finishes in online lobbies.
Deep Forest I think is an improvement over the older games overall, and is more fun with the new flow in the third sector.
Grand Valley is the most mixed due to the tightness in some areas, but I love the location as it us Photo Mode eye candy. I prefer the reverse layout for some reason, but both ways are pretty good.
Trial Mountain's new chicane is rather silly as it'd be terribly unsafe IRL - They could've had an earlier faster chicane with run-off area if they wanted a realistic mod, something Deep Forest' extension actually achieves
Grand Valley is just awful, it makes no sense with/without context. Even as a completely brand-new track it'd suck.
BTW, what's the last good OG track from Gran Turismo? As much as I find Maggiore enjoyable, the fast left-right near the end of the lap would be a death trap IRL
@@DiegoRuiz1991 I don't know, man. The new Grand Valley has been a blast. I always thought all of the old versions were boring and lifeless (I've played every GT since GT2). Even doing the endurance races in past GT titles at Grand Valley, I was bored out of my mind by lap 10. But this new one not only has some phenomenal flow, like that final tight chicane with the concrete aprons (when you nail that and get a great release out of it, it feels so rewarding), but it is just beautiful and scenic. Also, I've noticed that the new Grand Valley rewards people who are better at trail braking more than most other circuits, which has honestly made me a much better driver on the game. I think it is perfect.
@@DiegoRuiz1991 i always crash into other cars on the chicane... specially on the reverse track
that track probably wasnt meant for the Camaro ZL1 since i just crash everywhere but even with better handling cars like the tuned R32 its still pretty common to crash on the first tunnel or on the chicane, i like high speed ring and deep forest but trial mountain sucks
@@DiegoRuiz1991 Dragon Trail seaside i find to be pretty fun in race cars and faster road cars, its not great with slower ones but still
Coming from a serious racer. I agree with what you said about Trial Mountain, Deep Forest and High Speed Ring. The changes have grown on me as I have had some insane battles in the new alterations that most likely would never be possible with the old layouts.
Grand Valley on the other hand, it's alright. I wish it atleast kept the same general layout but that last tightening right hander into a left-right chicane really kills it for me. The track looks amazing with its new location but the difference is that there is too many differences that it doesn't feel like Grand Valley while Deep Forest, Trial Mountain and High Speed Ring still have many iconic sections like you said.
If there is another returning original track then I would hope they keep the general location/layout similar but if they need to make "realistic" changes to the layout to help encourage racing then sure.
I'm mostly fine with the redesigns, but I do understand why people don't like the new look of "Grand Valley" and I would also prefer the original version of it. And give how there is another original circuit from GT2 (Red Rock Valley from the data mining leak) is supposedly going to return, I wouldn't be surprised if people won't like the redesign of that one too.
Honestly, even with the track record of the redesigned circuits in GT7, I feel like everybody probably will be at least happy to a certain degree that Red Rock Valley returns *AT ALL* after being such a cool track in GT2, refusing to elaborate and then disappearing from the franchise.
Waiting for Red Rock Valley to return for over 20 years now 🙈
So you are telling me, that you are totally fine with them turning a fully flourished valley scape into some barren, sandy cape?
No wonder this series is being on a downhill for so long.
While I do prefer the original version of Grand Valley, I can tolerate the highway one in this game at least mate not permanently.
@@STRIDER_503 there’s only two memorable visuals for Grand Valley Speedway on the old games, and with originals like Sardegna, Sainte Croix and Kyoto it’s not like GT7 is lacking for bland green environment tracks, the Highway 1 idea is unique to look at in comparison
Thank you for putting my footage from the SSR11 guide in this video!
(Yes despite the channel name, it was a patreon collab where I made the video to support the channel and he advertised it)
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words! I've always felt like GT7 was missing something from the previous games. I missed being able to drive my favorite cars in unique and visually stunning locations that have fun track designs (not necessarily competitive). I don't like that they are going all in on appealing GT to E-Sports, the fact that they threw out a lot of the classic fun stuff in recent installments really frustrates me
Agree 100%. This is pretty much the way I've felt for a while as far as the lack of original courses, or how, in GT7, changes have slowly been made that overall are losing the charm and spirit of the original tracks and the goal they set out to accomplish. This video more or less gave me the 'why' of what's going on.
But I have concern about what future updates will bring because when you consider the philosophy they're working from now, it makes me believe that many, many, original courses won't return and the ones that do, will have edits made to them solely for the purpose of e-sports racing. Now I actually fully understand why Sport took such a radically different direction from the past games and how things just seem to have a different feel overall now.
Maybe this is also why the campaign mode in GT7 feels compromised.. because the focus was on the competitive online racing, and not the traditional single player experience and gameplay style that many fans had become familiar with and loved over the years. I'm happy that their foray into the e-sports world is working well for them, but you can't start rebuilding your series from the ground up at the expense of losing the traditional fan. They make up a large portion of the player base even now and they're the ones who have supported your series all these years
Seattle is by far and away my favorite GT track, and I really hope it shows up at some point in the future either in 7 or a later game. And I love the redesigned GVS, I've been playing since GT1 came out when I was 18 and the new version is admittedly not the same as the original, but it reminds me of the course in Ridge Racer Revolution with it being near the beach, which I absolutely love. It also isn't great for cars under the 950 pp level, but for those cars, particularly the Super Formula cars, it's the most fun I've ever had on a racing game. It works to their strengths so perfectly, and I can't wait to do that race in VR when my headset gets here sometime today.
FUN FACT - Seattle is one of at least THREE different street circuits no longer possible. Seoul lost the medieval arch you drove around (one of Seoul's original gates to the city) to a fire, some bits of Tokyo R246 were modified for the 2021 Tokyo Olympic Games and Seattle got changed a lot earlier (the new baseball stadium ruined the right-left left-right bit).
@@DiegoRuiz1991 don't be faithful to the real world layout then, make something better.
@@IPlayKindred - ALL street tracks in the Gran Turismo series are rather faithful to the original place so, no, they won't butcher a real city
@@DiegoRuiz1991 their loss lmao
A little wishlist:
Deep Forest Raceway Classic (the hairpin really bugs me a lot)
Special Stage Route 5 & 7
Tokyo R246
Apricot Hill Raceway
Cape Ring
EIGER NORDWAND! (it's so gorgeus I love the track)
Yes I only played from GT5P ongoing, how did you know
Ahh yes, Grand "Valley". A circuit on a highway on the side of a mountain beside the ocean....it's almost like they forgot what words mean.
Also, I miss that circuit from 1&2 that was small and the different layouts were at different seasons. Like the smallest layout was in fall, the longest was summer. Can't remember the name but gawdamn they were fun
Also-also; I *REALLY* miss Pike's Peak.
I believe that's Apricot Hill and Apricot Hill short....
The track crosses a valley twice, when you traverse the bridges.
8:46 so many times I have seen spinouts at the down-up the change with light, fast cars and turning is a spin adding fun and challenge
I was pleasantly surprised by GVS: the road markings actually make sense in context, rather than slavishly following the race track like every other psuedo-road circuit original (looking at you, Alsace).
The redesigns are all great and make for excellent racing. I've been playing since GT dropped in '98.
Kaz did an interview recently and was asked about the lack of city circuits - it's not due to sport mode or anything but just because the development costs of a city circuit have increased massively as graphical fidelity increases on new hardware, saying the development time/cost of 1 city circuit is now worth 5 normal circuits.
Honestly, at the rate we get new tracks anyway - I'm happy to forgo city circuits. I'd rather 1 track every 3 months than 1 city circuit every 15.
(happy to post the link but I think my old comment got autonuked for including it)
Interesting, do you know where I can find this myself?
@@Roflwaffle16 It's an interview he did with IGN Japan.
If you need a link (not sure how easy it is to google) there's a GTPlanet thread about city circuits in the GT7 section that I posted it in.
@@nebuc72 No worries, I found your post. It does make sense but it's a shame that graphical fidelity has gotten to the point that certain types of tracks just aren't feasible to make anymore. Issues like this didn't exist 20 years ago and I guess the only temporary solution would be to make street circuits at a lower quality, but we know PD aren't going to do that.
Like Kaz says in the interview hopefully this should be resolved with new innovations. Didn't PD showcase some sort of procedural generation of city environments at some point? That would be a good start.
@@Roflwaffle16 They did yeah - I believe it's what they used in the Tokyo tracks to save them placing it somewhere "real".
The one thing that surprises me there is that they don't just use the SSR5 (and maybe 11 or 7) layout using the same tools. The Tokyo Expressway tracks are gorgeous at night, and I don't see why that environment wouldn't work when the SSR tracks are literally a representation of the Tokyo Expressway anyway, It seems like an easy decision to me, at least with something like SSR7 that's just a highway in the void - there's no character to lose by plonking it in Tokyo.
Kaz has actually done a fair few interviews like this with Japanese outlets, and you get a lot of insight about what he wants to do or why certain decisions have been made (though this is all stuff like tracks, cars etc. rather than "why is the AI still bad after 20 years", but I digress). It's a shame they don't get posted or translated to places like GTP.
I want them to remake some of the older street circuits. I think Madrid and Tokyo R246 could work really well with the whole realistic track philosophy. And they could provide some decent racing that is challenging.
What I will say, is that the original tracks that they added for GT Sport do make online racing so much better. Those tracks offer overtaking spots, and you have to be strategic of when to make your move. I also personally think that they are a lot of fun to drive.
It literally hurts nobody to have the iconic bridge. This is the one redesign I really have ZERO clue why they did it.
Honestly would love if they updated the circuits and incorporated "classic" routes. The sweeping chicane on trial mountain and the long banked left of deep forest. Or hell, even when making these tracks initially, it wouldve been a cool detail on deep forest if there was a cutting in the track that showed where the old turn used to be. Giving the illusion that the track is the same as the old one, just repaved in modern years
Citta di Aria is a real urban track, set on the streets of Assisi, Italy.
Fantastic video, I liked a lot . Thank you.
You nailed about the online, competitive side of the game that we don't care .
I think Polyphony should make a vintage offline version with all old circuits as a love letter to old players like me that remember all corners of Gran Canyon, Pikes Peak, SS 11,Andaluzia , and ALL those city circuits and rally circuits of the past games.
With GT Sport, I can somewhat understand. They wanted to keep their FIA ceritifaction for the Championships. My assumption is that they couldn't use "fake" tracks, os they didn't quite see the point of using development time to make the original tracks. Not saying I agree with it, but it makes sense to me. But for the later games, all the changes and the missing tracks has no excuse. Mostly for GT7 that was marketed for their anniversary.
The perfect middle ground for us is literally releasing the old tracks and labeling them with a (classic) tag by its side, would not produce the best pro racing results but would be hella fun to drive around
Excellent video, but two things in here stood out to me and totally earned you a sub from me:
1. The jab at Riverside Raceway being demolished for Moreno Valley Mall (I live in the area)
2. Using Silver Stream from Ridge(Rage) Racer as BGM towards the end of the video.
Oh and I guess I agree with all points made in the video as well 😅🍻
X2
I'm super late, so I wanted to find the comment that said exactly what I was thinking, thanks for being first.
I would like to see old versions of real worlds tracks (and even original tracks), making them look like what they were in so and so amount of years ago.
Another ace, and i lol´ed on the GT7 part lmao, my favorites tracks from the ogs:
Original tracks: Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, High Speed Ring and Midfield (GT2 version)
Real tracks: Cote d´azur (Monaco), Costa di Amalfi, Laguna Seca (absolute favorite) Spa, Le Mans and Sardegna.
I've always had such a love/hate relationship with Citta di Aria. It was so frustrating in some parts, but so much fun in others. Now I just straight up miss it.
I don’t really mind the redesigns. True, Tilke seems to have had a hand in some of the corners. But I would’ve been disappointed to get an old track back and already know every inch of it before my first race. A bit of a learning curve is always nice, although GV is still a steep one for me. Should’ve been situated in the Andes…
I like very much how the environment looks so nice now. Trial Mountain, I wanna move there after retiring! Fishing for trout, making campfires, worrying about grizzlies… yep. Build a cabin and a winter store, plough up the ground by the cold lake shore. They could’ve just called it Telegraph Road and have done.
I get your point but I disagree in the part of already knowing every inch of the track. By that logic, I already know irl circuits like Nurburgring, Spa or Monza, so they should bring back edited versions of those circuits, right? What I mean is, a circuit is what it is, even if it's original, changing it means changing it's identity. Ofc with time circuits don't stay the same, but GT in the past brought circuits with their different versions in the past. I would've been completely glad to have old and new versions of these tracks, with upgraded graphics and looks. But changing them so much... eh I'm not really a fan of it although I don't really hate it either. I like what they are but I don't feel they respect what they were.
You're just making a lame excuse for not understanding the feeling when nostalgia being taken away.
Once I saw in the previews that Trial Mountain had lost its iconic (to me) tree tunnel I knew this game was going to let me down in so many ways. Sadly, I was right. I still play it a lot, but my old faves just don't feel right. If that's how it's going to be I'm not really missing the tracks that haven't made it over yet :(
Interesting take on past circuit designs and there appeal. Mind you that even circuits in real life also can change dramatically over time. Laguna Seca itself had a double cork screw during the 60s and during the 2010s added sausage curbs.
I can't get into that Grand Valley remake. It reminds me of GT6 where people would upload real life tracks in the track maker, but they were all on the 3 predetermined settings and lacked any of the elevation or landmarks.
The awesome thing I loved about Grand Valley was it felt like a really unique race track situated in a city or country side that wasn't trying to be an international event for Grand Prix races. It looks like a pure racing track with some bonkers additions that could be used for Super GT or Super Formula as an icon track. The different layouts, elevation, landmarks and atmosphere made it amazing to drive and race on. Slapping a California highway aesthetic on it and calling it the same feels wrong.
Genuinely love your videos, your points are very correct and your editing is great, keep it up!
11:39 Formula E tracks? If they introduced FE cars into the game, we could have 'point and squirt' tracks. It would also give the Volkswagen IDR some kind of use. Plus, can you imagine the chaos of Formula E in Sport Mode?
11:12 I think this is probably because to create the detail on those tracks for the PS5 would be an insane amount of work, so perhaps they are making these now but they won’t be released for a while
I find the Deep Forrest redesign actually pretty good, I think it made the track more varied. And I really miss Madrid, such a lovely track.
3:28 High Speed Ring layout was copied from Pole Position game. Which was basically a Fuji Speedway from the 70's scaled down
Hmm interesting I thought it was based off of the first game pd made Motor Toon Grand Prix
@@justcallmedj3273 well yes and no. Its all based on the old Fuji track in Japan
It is crazy how vividly I remember ramming into that tunnel entrance on trial mountain.
And another reason for the redesign of Grand Valley from GT1, GT2 to GT4 with the entrance to the first tunnel was that it was getting dubbed "The Skyline corner".
If you wondered if the car behind you or in front of you was a Nissan Skyline, that corner would always showcase it as they always failed to complete that corner and would crash into the entrance of the tunnel, causing interesting pileups in the grid if you were in front.
So a running joke was that me and a friend always joked that the Ai Skylines would only have a working left headlight and the right one was always smashed to bits.
1:11 theres even a Monaco and Indianapolis hidden in beta version of GT2. Not finished though.
I fully agree with everything you said about Grand Valley... except I have yet to have a fun race on the new version.
Great video, I agree with you on almost every point!
As with your previous videos, your takes are so spot on. PD should hire you haha.
Unfortunately, the original tracks have been ruined by putting way too much emphasis on esports, which happens in any type of game when Esports are prioritized over everything. Its a shame because most of the players are not pro Esports player and just wanna have fun.
As much as I love the scenery of the new Grand Valley, it doesn't have the same feeling. I don't know why PD seems to screw up such easy things to get right. It would also been an easy one to add a classic 300 km endurance event in the update.
Some people speculate that the new scenery was made to wow the new PSVR2 users at launch which makes some sense.
Keep up the good work, its always a pleasure to watch your videos !
As an avid sport mode tryhard, I agree that the chicane at trail mountain is not very well made, because of the sharp turn to both the right and the left, it makes it very risky to go for an overtake since if you can't make it past before the second turn, you'll lose the position again and get a horrible run out of the chicane on to the main straight.
Deep Forest Raceway should be in the US actually. It seems to have been based by a track in Iowa called Greenwood Roadway that only ran for 3 years (1963-66) before closing. The track layout is very close to the original layout from the PS1 days, elevation changes and all.
Edit: They could also add the old layouts for Deep Forest and Trial Mountain as the "Historic Layout." But knowing PD from over the years, they'd lock the track for only historic cars and/or low powered cars.
16:45 what a lovely line to hear In late January 2024
I jumped off the GT series at PS2 and GT4.
However me and a friend used to race a lot in GT2 and GT4 on Grand Valley, so to me, that track is the holy grail to me.
Since I upgraded my PC and focused on that rather than a console, I ended up bringing Grand Valley with me to Assetto Corsa, rFactor and GTR 2 and have a lot of fun times driving on that circuit.
What I do know however, is that the latest incarnation will not ever get the same track miles from me, it may be driven a little while I go back to the Speedway to rack up more miles afterwards.
Just looking at the original design for Grand Valley you could say which track it was inspired: Fuji Speedway
They just adjusted some of the corners to make it different
But with Fuji in the Asian section already, I think they scrapped that and moved it... again... in the US
FFS Poliphony
That being said despite the only detail now most of these tracks have high-end racing cars events, hence it being outdated but that's normal, it is a crystal clear expositions of their qualities and flaws
Watching this video, this is the first time finding out Grand Valley has been added to GT7. And my first reaction? *Look how they massacred my boy!*
Still beyond me that the original Tokyo 246 isn't present. Also amen to any one saying more street circuits.
Deep Forest doesn't even look like its in a deep forest anymore.
Oh man, I would love to have Citta di Aria back. It was really challenging to find those last hundredths of a second there. In general, more really tight, challenging tracks or hillclimb events would be great. In my opinion, that fits in perfectly with the character of GT, pimping everyday cars into racing cars.
It's fantasy! They could make both layouts, new and old. It's a game, sure we can bulldoze a mountain and recreate it next race!
Nostalgia sells so much if well done
I often used Trial Mountain as the test track to try out new cars in GT5 & GT6, now, not so much
Special Stage is in California, which is about 2 Englands away from Utah.
Another wonderful video!
Great video man, well done.
I've been playing GT games since the first one. I feel weird finding myself in the middle. I just like having new tracks to drive on. I do miss the street courses and wish to have those back, Paris in particular. Maybe I'm not really bothered because my longest gaming history is in fighting games, where change is the rule. Same name, altered layout? Fine by me, I watched Jin go from Tekken 3 to Tekken 4 and be a completely new character. Just to be clear, this isn't meant to dismiss the feelings of loss my fellow older players feel for not getting modern versions of classic tracks. I just don't feel the same sort of connection to most tracks. GT was always about the cars and customization for me.
They have an amazing game in their hands, I hope they unleash it and let it be as fun as Gran Turismo 5 was, that was also in the HD era and had online, it should be the blueprint
I hope the dev and kaz realize there is 4 different type of player in gran turismo
1- Race tryhard
2- Casual racer
3- Drifter
4- Roleplayer
I wish drifter and roleplayer could have more fun track and street oriented to enjoy the game
Grand Valley Speedway was my favorite course ever since the beginning..
Seeing the new layout is a joke-
All the original courses from the previous Gran Turismo’s were the best original courses out of any game ever-
Grand valley speedway
Deep forest
Trial mountain
Apricot hill
Red rock Valley
Grindelwald
Seattle circuit
Clubman stage
Special stage route 11
Remember complex string???
Just to name a few..
All of these courses were just so amazing and me and my buddy spent days on end doing races with our force feedback wheels once that became a thing, but back before that we were of course playing on controllers, but each game was always so great and it was always so much fun to see the amazing new graphics and your favorite courses!
Now you have to be depressed and just about cringe when you see an original course brought back???
16:50 RIP Riverside. i don't get why an AC/Rf2 mod is the one and only video game representation of that track across all platforms and eras it seems.
It's got the twisty sand trap element of Willow springs which PD loves, one big camber hairpin which PD also loves, and a long, wide straightaway that ends with a high bank nascar right-hander. It's as if the original Riverside had been designed by Polyphony in the first place.
The thing I like in GT7, it's they put Interlagos, a very difficoult circuit. Then there's Willow Field, Daytona and Mount Panorama Bathrust (this was in Need for Speed Shift 2 Unleashed with good sections and hard to drive, cause you have to stay focused and the game it's so good and realistic with dynamic and damages)
The thing I miss most is just the atmosphere. Look at 8:54 the old corner is comfy, lush with dense trees, the racing equivalent of walking through a forest. And then the redesign, just a completely generic, empty racetrack corner.
Gran Turismo always had this balance between 'lifelike' graphics and realism, but with tracks that made the game fun as an arcade, casual game as well. Nowadays GT leans so extremely into the realism that, well, not surprisingly they are losing the casual car enthusiast audience or even general casual gamers to Forza; filling the balance between arcade and realism perfectly like GT once used to do.
The next topic video I would like to see in the future is the cars we loved from the past, and the NIKE 2022.... oooh the NIKE 2022, I heard is on Vision project lineup and there are 5 of them left, Ford, Tesla, Jordan, GM, and last but not last NIKE is on the list as well.
City circuits are one of my favorite track genre’s, more games need them, and if they have any they need more.
I don't mind the redesigns. I do lean more on the competitive side of the player base, so I like what they did to improve the racing of these tracks. As for grand valley, I love it. To me it's a very refreshing take on an old circuit. It feels like taking a Sunday cruise along a winding seaside road. Imo, for SSR5, 7, 11, I can definitely see them placing them into the Tokyo Expressway location. It wouldn't feel out of place to do that either considering those tracks were LOOSELY based of Tokyo and it's surrounding highways anyway.
I dont know if it is just me, but high speed ring is like a reverse Fuji Speedway in the 70s
I don't think it's just you. I think High Speed Ring probably was based on Fuji Speedway but reversed in its primary direction and tweaked to work better for low-downforce sports cars.
@reillywalker195 it's still a fun track
At 2:39 I bet they only called it high speed ring because high speed circuit doesn’t have the same “ring” to it
I just miss the fact that they replaced the suspension bridge with a viaduct on that straight before turn seven on Grand Valley
I really wish we could get more of those street circuits. I don’t mind them adding more of those original tracks but at the same time, I don’t know how I feel about the changes they’re making with them, like trial mountain and grand valley.
Who knows, maybe we might see Special Stage Route 5 return as a Street Circuit in either San Diego or Los Angeles, and Special Stage Route 11 in either Dubai or Singapore.
Côté d'Azur, a.k.a. Monaco, is also a possibility, unless EA has a tight fist on the rights to almost all the F1 Circuits aside from the Japanese Circuits.
Rome is still possible, both GT2 and GT5 versions. Rome-Night was purely fictional, with no real roads that matches its layout.
5:45 I know I'm being nitpicky, but SSRX is supposed to be along the southern coast of California, likely somewhere in Orange or San Diego County, not Utah. (This is probably just a mistake though)
Originally weren't the Special Stages based on the infamous C1 Loop/Wangan Highway in Tokyo which is why there were so many variations of the Special Stage tracks?
That trial mountain chicane was something, that I hated as a kid and loved as an adult.
So many times I got launched into a barrier or got flown almost upside down due to the earlier titles not letting your car flip.
13:20
I literally played GT Sport so much and I never even noticed it was an outline of Grand Valley East
No clue why Polyphony moved SSRX to Utah, as this track already had a geographical location in the previous games, that being "Somewhere next to Antarctica" by the way the Sun was moving on this track. With how insanely ridiculous this track is, it being this super-remote futuristic secret test facility fitted it perfectly.
Old versions of the tracks have been ported to Assetto Corsa (and probably RFactor 1 and few other games) by modders, so you can still drive on those on a modern game engine if you so desire.
Citta di Aria is a rally stage/track hybrid located in an almost 1:1 street layout of town of Assisi in Italy with trees and roadside clutter removed and some walls and rumble strips added.
Polyphony preferred to not include the A-B tracks in GT4 with only almost unused Vegas drag strip being this way, and instead had rally stage maps be circuits at the same time. They fully acknowledge this with Costa di Amalfi, George V Paris and Citta di Aria by the choice of rivals you face on these tracks, being Rally and Rally-derived cars.
Didn't knew Okutama was a fictional circuit lol. The touge running right next to it and sharing one part with the big layout of it should have made me suspicious with its convenience, but they didn't.
Good to hear the unfortunate development of Special Stage street circuits-5 lost its charm, 7 completely vanished, 11 got an amnesia. Now I can imagine the horror of Red Rock Valley if it's ever coming back.
Speaking of, I would like to shed some spotlight on the semi-fictional Test Course, predecessor of Route X. It actually based on Japan's 'field of speed' Yatabe proving ground, hence the shape and environment is surrounded by plants instead of located in an open space. Sometimes I wonder why can't we just have real life location similar...
ive been up and down the 1 highway in california many times and it baffles me what people find beautiful about it. wow cliffs, rugged grass covered hills, and ocean. the cliffs of dover offer a better, more picturesque version of the same thing. it seems like they picked the 1 and didnt know about the far more beautiful stretch of hwy just north of it; when the 1 turns into the 101 north of San Francisco this is when the hwy starts winding through the monstrous California Coastal Redwood forest, dense forests of the tallest trees known to man hanging on to the foggy coast.
what the 1 has can be seen in so man salt blasted coasts and i think it's kinda ugly.
Rome circuit and Rome Night, Red Rocky Valley, El Captain... Miss those
I like the ufo abducting the otter. Lol nice Easter egg in GV.
I like the grand valley track , I’ve been wanting more road tracks since I mostly drift and do RP free roam sessions . I would like to see the Isle of Man track added and maybe the SC500 as a nürburgring competitor
Isn't Grand Valley Speedway (the one we all know and love) near a city? Cuz I remember everytime I entered turn one, I see a glimpse of buildings behind the grandstands. I always wondered about where the original tracks like Grand Valley Speedway are located. My question is that which original track is gonna be returning next? Apricot Hill? Midfield Raceway? Circuito de la Sierra?
The funniest thing about Deep Forest being in Switzerland instead of the USA is that there was a news story which claimed Deep Forest was based on a track in Iowa from the 1960s by the name of Greenwood Roadway. The track is long overgrown, having only been in use from 1963 through 1966 and the news story is complete rubbish. They even called Gran Turismo 5, "Deep Forest 5."
I always felt that Special Stage Route X made sense to be in Japan instead of the USA because of how the harbor is and how the other Special Stage tracks are in Japan, but I guess PD called it a USA track because oval. The only original circuits that I think could be USA are Grand Valley (despite the poor redesign) and Autumn Ring.
For once, I disagree with a fair bit of this video.
First thing that is very important to know to put things in context is that since GT5, all newly designed original tracks have been placed in real life locations on real life terrain that they scanned, then designed a layout on top of. One of the reasons is that with technologies available now, it is actually much easier to build: you have premade data for 3D mesh, and pictures for surroundings. This is why the old OG tracks weren't in GTS: they decided to have them placed on IRL locations as well because that is now their standard, but this meant having to find interesting real life locations that matched more or less the tracks, which is possible as evidenced by someone's civil engineering end of studies project (guy wanted to show Apricot Hill could be built IRL, did all the work you'd do for an actual project, with the extra constraints of having to match an existing design, even calculated the amount of dirt displacement required... and all suitable locations he found were in the US). Only exception now is Tokyo Expressway, which is more of a sheinked mashup of real parts of the Shutoko network with procedurally generated buildings around iirc.
Surprisingly, Grand Valley's environment was the most unrealistic one from all GT1's OG track, and I remember Kaz talking about it years ago. Yet, I find the layout of the new one, despite the different elevations, to be much more faithful to the OG than Deep Forest, which is an absolute massacre to me. The whole second half of the track has been ruined to me, and doesn't even really favors racing that much because the stupid windong flatout bit after the hairpin means there's only one line you can take there, thus preventing any cutback or taking advantage of a better exit there, while completely killing the flow there. GVH's end is similar in that regard, but it doesn't take away one of the better parts of the track so I don't mind as much. And while I prefered the faster tunnel corner, the chicane on GVH is actually nicely designed for once. Really, while I understand people who still prefer the old one, I don't understand the outrage, or saying you'd rather not have had it at all. It's fantastic, and good tracks are THE type of content we desperately need more of in racing games.
Regarding Trial Mountain, I'm not a huge fan of the new chicane's profile, but let's be fair, the old one didn't serve much purpose aside the meme jump. The longer backstraight actually makes it more balanced, and the rest of the layout is unchanged, aside the two bits before and after runnel one which are slightly longer ( and make the first braking zone not under lateral load anymore, which is a bit disappointing, but ultimately pretty minor). And TM has always been my favorite track ever, to the point I tested all GT6 road cars on it (nearly 800 cars) and compiled all the times to build my custom PP system. Really, it's fine still, even with low powered cars. It's now even better to BoP custom classes.
The curb width shenanigans were such bad faith from Kaz were hilarious, but now I do think it was just him being bad at finding plausible excuses for the OG tracks not being there at the time while not revealing their actual plans with them. But now we know how things are going. They just better not mess up SSR5 like they did with Deep Forest or I'm legit gonna riot.
No problem, I don't make these videos to represent the popular opinion, but rather to express my own. The track redesigns are anything but a cut and shut case so I knew there would be many different takes on this when compared to my previous videos where there was more unanimous agreement.
I am somewhat aware of how they create these original circuits based on real-life locations. I didn't know that it's more due to convenience, but that does make sense. Even still, it is a shame that because of this PD are seemingly not willing to create something completely original and have to base it on a real place. That may explain why there's a disproportionate amount of originals in the US (at the moment) but ultimately it's something they should weigh up when they make these decisions: "Should we design another track in this area of the US (or another location they've already used) because it's the most convenient, or place it somewhere else in the world that may be more difficult to design a track on but would be interesting and add more variety (and in the case of the returning originals make more sense when compared to their previous iterations)?
For me the issue with GVH isn't rooted in comparing it to the original. Like I said I barely relate it at all to GVS beyond the rough outline. My main point was more that it felt like a waste to do this rather than create a completely brand new circuit where they could let their imaginations run wild and create something even better then GVH which is inherently limited to being 'sort of' like GVS. Technically they could still do this as a separate layout (like Dragon Trail Gardens to Dragon Trail Seaside) but since they've already filled that niche I don't think it's likely that they will. And this pretty much all but de-confirms a more faithful remake of GVS as well as it is effectively a replacement. This is what I mean by saying I'd rather not have it at all since by having it they've now closed of these two different possibilities (the completely original circuit on Highway - 1 and the faithful GVS remake).
I can see why people dislike the new ending at DF and to be fair I expected to as well but then I drove it and realised I still enjoyed it a fair bit. Of course the original was still better (and had more of a forest...) but I don't see it as a travesty and the reverse variation is actually a lot better than forward imo.
TM is just too stretched and the most iconic corner has been removed. Sure, the ramp would've been very silly to bring back but other than that it was fine. As I said I really don't like it with slower cars and it doesn't hold a candle to the original in that regard. On my lap with the MX5 I spent about a minute of that on the straights... Doing nothing. It's just tedious and I avoid driving it in anything with less than 300hp.
@@Roflwaffle16 Well, they can still create pretty wild stuff basing themselves on real terrain, like the banked hairpin at Maggiore. I don't really see that as a limitation for layout design. The thing is I don't think they're just willing to do something in an otherwise unremarkable location, because they also want the sceneries to provide great cinematic shots for replays and good photo opportunities, and I think that's what's driving the location choices.
One thing I definitely agree with though is the game does indeed needs more tracks for low powered cars, tracks that are more focused on driving experience rather than trying to make it more raceable for GT3s.
@@gt4lex Yep, completely agree. That's why I was so surprised when they added Goodwood back in GT Sport since it's pretty much the only track they've added since GT6 which feels suitable for slower cars at the cost of not really working for Group 4, Group 3, etc...
@@Roflwaffle16 To be fair, GT7 has those new Maggiore layouts. They're bad, but hey, they tried. Maybe we can have mostly unaltered Autumn Ring next ?
I think exactly the same, either i get nothing or i get the right track, i was thinking of that when you talked about SS R11, if it wasn't going to be right, i'm glad they didn't make it return
That's insane that GT Sport and GT7 almost don't feature any track from GT6/5 (Silverstone, Sonoma, Midfield, Grand Valley Raceway, the real one). Wtf did happened in the mind of Polyphony ?!
2 comment cuz that 30 lap race at R11 in GT1 was actually my favourite over the Grand Valley race. For endurance racing fans, a night endurance race on a long, technical circuit was a dream. The atmosphere of that race was unmatched and honestly not bringing it forward in the same way as the Grand Valley race was a big mistake
My biggest take on Grand Valley redesign is that it is very good, but my question is: Why?
Why change the track's design? There was nothing wrong with it before.
Were they unrealistic? Yes, but thats why theyre fictional tracks. Out of all the redesigns, this one was the weirdest one so far (Tho taking the yeet chicane in Trial Mountain is a massive bruh moment)