What Did Oscar Wilde's Voice Sound Like?
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2017
- This is a video essay discussing the existence of a voice recording, claimed to be that of Oscar Wilde, and whether it is authentic or not. Below are links to some of the sources used in the making of this video. If you enjoy Wilde related discussions, you might also like this video I made: "The Truth About What Oscar Wilde Looked Like." • The Truth About What O...
Wilde voice recording
• Oscar Wilde reads from...
Second Wilde voice recording
/ the-voice-of-oscar-wil...
The Voice Of Oscar Wilde:An Investigation, Jonathan Vickers and Peter Copeland www.mr-oscar-wilde.de/words/ar...
Vyvyan Holland TV interview
• Video
Wilde, 1997 film
• Video
Oscar Wilde, 1960 film
• Video
The Trials Of Oscar Wilde, 1960 film
• The Trials of Oscar Wi...
Wilde at 1900 Paris Expo 1900
• Oscar Wilde caught on ...
Wes Craven scene from Paris Je t’Aime
• Paris Je t'aime - Pére...
Early Edison wax recording from 1890s
• Early cylinder recordi...
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At least Wilde lived during the age of photography.
I think that's so cool- his photos seem to be so different from the rest in that era.
There's also unconfirmed speculation that he was caught on film during the 1900 Paris expo. The footage is up on youtube. There is a man that appears in the footage and that stands out from the rest of the crowd because of his white suit and his distinct walk, an "elephant like gait" as it was described by his friends, and also because of the fact that he was the only one who looked straight into the camera. I genuinely think that it is him.
It is so cool to find a community of people interested in Oscar Wilde, I haven't met anyone else who cared. Thank you for uploading this.
I just began reading his other works after reading The Picture of Dorian Gray. All I can say is he has so much more underrated works that aren't being discussed and analyzed like his poems 😔
My Granny has a first edition copy of De Profundis ( I think that's how it's spelt)
I love how CZcams can be such a positive place for enthusiasts of all subjects. I made this video because it is the sort of content I enjoy consuming, and the response has been so cool!
❤
I have allways admiered I
Oscar Wilde. 🇲🇽
My sins may be crimson but at least I’ll still be read - Oscar Wilde
is... is that a pun
@@ghostking6700 It's a bon mot.
I have always liked "work is the curse of the drinking classes".
Wrong
Great quote but that was Hillaire Belloc
Hillare belloc said this
Bottom line: No one knows what Wilde sounded like and never will.
Maybe with a dna sample, we could bring him back.
Well, some people do know, but they're dead :(
@@annereilley4892 Even with a perfect genetic clone the clone still wouldn't sound quite the same since his accent would be different
@@yallevereatenbeans2723 That's a good point, but maybe with our knowledge of accents we would have a sense of what it would sound like. At least we'd know his basic voice and maybe he could learn the accents.
Oscar Wilde wouldn't have sounded much like any of them as he was Irish
According to Lillie Langtry ".. he had one of the most alluring voices that I have ever listened to, round and soft, and full of variety and expression, and the cleverness of his remarks received added value from his manner of delivering them." The Fall of the House of Wilde by Emer O'Sullivan '
Dear 8ohm * Seeing How This Lillie Langtry, I Shall Believe It.
That first guy sounds like a slightly lispy Stephen Fry with a head cold ... Then again - actual Stephen Fry sounds pretty much like I imagine Oscar Wilde.
That's Robert Morley.
@@cisium1184 The guy who makes wah pedals?
Stephen Fry sounds like Robert Morley, yet another person Fry has stolen a personality from to make “ his own”! The guy has made a fortune from portraying other people and making it look like it’s his talent, his wisdom and his humour. If one looks at every thing he has done and looks to the past you can see that’s all he has done, take others wisdom and talent and made it look his own.
Of course teachers do this all the time, they just repeat others wisdom and put a spin on it to make it looks like they were the first to come up with it!
@@ianmedium There is nothing abnormal about that in the arts. It's not cheating. You still have to do some pretty damn decent shit with what you steal and make it your own and recontextualize it so it's actually not the same thing any longer. Any artform rests on stuff that went before in some sense. It's what you do with it that matters. Don't get me wrong it still has to have some contextual freshness and something reasonably novel to it or the way it's pulled off ...
Rest in peace all those who suffered and died for their sexuality. An eternal shame for any society that calls itself civilised.
EJ T what you talking about
He apparently produced at least one child, so maybe not totally gay.
And the spouses, wives usually deceived...
@@Hudson1910 lots of gay men can do the deed if required,
Mock God and you will not rest in peace, sorry, better to be celibate then sin against God laws.
In the back of Richard Ellman's biography of OW, there is a whole speech by him broken down, by a woman who was present. She used a code to identify which parts of his voice went up, down, loud etc. Being a Wilde nerd I spent weeks studying it and you can actually get a good idea of what he sounded like. Really.
Which of the interpretations in this video is the closest to her account, in your opinion?
@@TobyHonest420 His son. But with an added soft Irish lilt. The recordings seem to me as if who ever is speaking KNEW Oscar enunciated certain words in a certain way without knowing what they were. A man as large as OW is highly unlikely to have such a high pitch to it. Also in view of his spectacular fall from grace, it is doubtful he would be sought out to do anything for the sake of theirs' or his own, publicity. IMHO.
Whether it is Wilde's voice or not there can never be a doubt that the man was a pure genius.
@Paddy Mcdoogle He was a victim of homophobia, which is awful. A great user of words and and great playwrite...............but to declare one's self a genius is a touch egotistical maybe? People like Stephen Fry laud him ....but like many ...it's easy , like Fry, to be a lovable persona when you have thousands in the bank. Life is different when you live it from beginning to end at the bottom, no matter how hard you try.
He had nothing to declare except his genius. ☺
@@iseeolly9959 Genius is measurable. Quantifiable.
@@meursault7030 So was he 14, 378 or 12982 on the Genius scale? (just a joke my dear) ; )
@@iseeolly9959 Lol nah I was just talking about IQ. But yes, his head was as big as a lorry.
He was, by all accounts, a loving and devoted husband and father to two little boys who were forbidden from seeing their father ever again. He produced an astonishing amount of work, as we all know, in several genres, all of stellar quality, and all of which, appallingly, have been eclipsed by his love for another man.
True Matthew but not today aye pal. Such a shame we were so ignorant then. I blame religion I detest it.
@@paulanthony5274 it's not religion but a rule of life
@@athayphom3551 Based on a false religion.
He clearly led two lives as he spent much of his time in the company of young men. His wife Constance overall appeared to be tolerant of Oscar's proclivities but with the scandal of Oscar's trial and imprisonment, it proved to be too much and she changed her name and moved out of the country with their 2 sons. As Constance died shortly after Wilde was released from prison, I'm not sure who forbid Oscar to see his own sons? Oscar himself died 2 years after Constance. Their poor sons lost both parents very young. Tragic all around.
@@firenze5555What a pity he never realized that his actions would gravely affect his wife and children.
Well, at least he is still being talked about.
@ 2ndviolin LOLOLOL indeed, he put it well, " My sins may be crimson, but I'll still be read."
the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about
That is more that we'll be able claim in a century.
Am I the only one who finds these recordings slightly haunting, real or not?
'..Be yourself, everyone else is taken...'. Fantastic. THATS the voice of Wilde.
No evidence that Oscar said it.
cochiseap No evidence that he didn’t say it either !
I find it hard to believe he lost every trace of an Irish accent.
I don't believe that there are any recordings of Oscar Wilde's voice. I'm disappointed that there are none. It would thrill the inner "fan-girl" in me if one truly existed.
I don't care what Oscar sounded like. I love his works and that's all that matters. I don't believe the recording is him speaking. It is simply someone reading one of his poems. I do believe that recording could be cleaned up with modern equipment and made a bit clearer.
Two things: first, I used to own the full recording of the alleged voice of Wilde, and the person did say 'Oscar Wilde' at the end. It was taken from a Dutch radio series. Secondly: you can draw something from the film footage, which is the height. I've compared the figure to the photographs of Wilde in Italy, and the height, length of trousers etc. all are the same size. It's not too far fetched to think that if someone was filming, and a 6,3" famous person in a light suit was walking by, the filmmaker would try and film them. The recorded voice is in my opinion fake and made somewhere in the 1920's. The film footage however to my mind, really is Oscar.
I agree. One other thing. Given Wilde's alternative fashion sense, it seems to be that white dressed man is the only one wearing white. Everyone else is in either black, possibly dark blue, red velvet, etc., etc. I think that really might be him. Also, why would the filmmaker pan slightly to keep that figure in frame? Things that make you go Hmmmmm?
@@Fandango541 Good point. Also there are a few photographs of Wilde in light coloured suits so it really isn't a stretch. It's been speculated that both Oscar and his mother may have had gigantism. His height really stood out in a time where an average man would be about 5,6 and working class men would be even smaller because of a lack of nutrition.
I posted this video a year ago, and since then, it's been lovely to see people engage with it and add their own thoughts and knowledge on the subject. Reading what fellow Wilde enthusiasts have to say is encouraging. Thank you.
A. O'Farrell I just came upon this, and I would like to say thanks to you, and all the other tubers who spend their effort and time to put up so much fascinating content. It’s absolute heaven for a history geek like me. I’m in the middle of reading the house of Wilde and this is a nice aside. And the recording, if his own son has a hard time, I guess we could call it close enough🤷♀️. Your own accent is pretty cool, btw.
Just came across this whilst looking up the film with Stephen Fry. Thank you has made me want to look into his life more.
While every actor brought something to the role I think none of them made any real attempt to research what Wilde might have sounded like. He would not have sounded like your average upper class English Man. Even the Anglo Irish of the time, had a distinct Irish 'twang' all their own unless they were educated overseas in England from an early age. While not as pronounced as Shaws, he most likely would have had what Michael Gambon calls 'The Trinity' accent, which given Wilde had spent his formative up to his early college years in Ireland makes most sense.
Lian McGuire : 'Even the Anglo Irish of the time, had a distinct Irish 'twang' all their own unless they were educated overseas in England from an early age.' The 'twang' you refer to, seems to me to relate to the Ulster/Northern Ireland accent; mind you, he was enroled at Portora Royal School, Enniskillen, Northern Ireland; so that may have lent a certain 'twang', as you say. The Wilde family spent some time, how much I cannot ascertain, around Lough Corrib, Co.Galway - even though quite an isolated place, he may have picked up a soft West of Ireland lilt. I agree that, as you state, he may well have had 'The Trinity' accent; not easy to describe on paper. [And for those reading this + Lian Maguire's comment above, Michael Gambon was born in Dublin]
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@@77777aol
The Northern Irish accent is not particularly 'musical' compared with the South so I would imagine that would not be the quality that made his speech attractive to listen to. No offence intended to the North, but that is just the way it is.
Everyone else shut up. Lian knows the business. No, this isn't irony. Thanks Lian.
@metropolitan1966
Yes. I can imagine him delivering his witticisms with an upper class accent like Noel Coward!!
@metropolitan1966 I'd say, that you are right. The taking on of accents in Britain has been a big thing for 200 years or more. First, theatre actors took on a transatlantic accent, so audiences all around the English speaking World could understand it, then it became fashionable in schools for even non-theatre people to take on this "sophisticated" accent. Before this all became the fashion in the 1800's, the British sounded like Americans.
I think it’s quite possible he had more of an accent than ever he’d let on...I’m aware he said his Irish accent was something he ‘lost at oxford’ but then how many people are utterly adamant they don’t have an accent yet really, really do. My personal opinion is he probably spoke like a well spoken dubliner but a dubliner none the less
The Wilde recording is too detailed, meaning it has a wide range of frequencies, especially high frequencies, which is incompatible with a recording from 1900. It also means the voice was likely recorded close to the speaker, with the speaker speaking at a lower volume than was required for a mechanical recording. Probably, it was done with electrical recording equipment, after 1930 or so.
Wilde was a large man - about 6 feet 3 inches and corpulent. I'd imagine he was more likely to have a deeper voice.
It does depend, Stephen Fry is 6'5" and hasn't the deepest voice.
yes but he was also described as quite effeminate - many gay men do enunciate words well
based on what evidence? i dont want an argument im genuinely interested
I always noticed that (although certainly not always the case) people with more body weight have deeper voices
@@sophiem6050 That statement is borderline asinine. Does it also apply to Russian, Japanese, Sudanese, German, Korean, Brazilian and, for that matter, all gay men in every country around the globe?
People do not always use their natural speaking voice when reciting poetry. Take for example the intensely artificial, histrionic, "hammy" (to modern ears) way Shakespeare's language was spoken by actors as recently as the 1940's, and compare it with the vastly different realistic and natural approach of modern actors. Factor into the equation technical issues related to the primitive nature of voice recording in the 19th century, which may account for the high-pitched quality of Wilde's voice; then yes, these could be primitive recordings of Oscar, speaking in a very artificial, flowery tone of voice which, to his mind and in his day, suited the seriousness and pathos of the subject matter.
Wonderful video essay! The connection people have with Oscar is so unique, and really beautiful. I feel you can kind of get a sense of what his voice would've been like by merely reading his works again, and being as close to him as you can possibly get. It's just so fun to imagine.
Thanks man for putting so much effort in this video... I love Oscar Wilde and it’s always interesting and fascinating to find out more about him😍😍
Firstly, I think it is possible that Peter Copeland and Jonathan Vickers are mistaken. The loud clicks you hear in the recording are certainly those of a damaged phonograph cylinder revolving at 120 rpm - I timed the clicks and compared them with the clicks on a genuine phonograph cylinder running at the same speed on a modern cylinder reproducer I have and which I use for my work as a sound restorer….and found them to be entirely compatible. Moreover, the acetate recording disc that "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" cylinder's audio signal was dubbed onto in circa 1950s (apparently in New York) would have been running at 78 rpm. I think it is quite possible that the surface noise of the acetate disc running at 78 rpm included clicks, and when these became mingled with the genuine cylinder clicks the result may have caused Copeland and Vickers to mistakenly conflate the sound of the cylinder with the sound of the 78. In other words, the voice on the cylinder is likely to be genuine in my opinion, though that does not mean it is Oscar Wilde's voice! But it is unreasonable of Copeland and Vickers to claim that it "cannot" be Oscar Wilde on purely technical grounds. Having said that, however, I think it is unlikely to be Wilde's voice for another reason, which I will explain. I have hunted through the original catalogue of the 1900 Paris Exposition and can find no mention anywhere of Edison exhibiting / demonstrating his phonograph machines and associated cylinders. The Edison company had several booths at the 1900 Paris Exposition, but these were in the main demonstrating heavier machinery, as well as the Edison Company's latest developments in moving images (films). It was in fact the earlier Paris Exposition of 1889 that Edison used to show off his phonograph developments, and the company's booth at the 1889 Paris Exposition allowed visitors to record their own voice - as a contemporary engraving clearly shows. I cannot find any evidence that the exercise was repeated in 1900. In any case, by 1900, cylinder recordings (and this is certainly true for Edison cylinders) were normally cut onto "masters" from which thousands of identical wax cylinders could be moulded. The days of shouting down a mouthpiece to inscribe one's voice onto a soft wax cylinder had long gone by 1900, except for very early office dictation systems. Therefore, I cannot see the Edison Company demonstrating its latest phonograph equipment in such an antiquated way in 1900. It wouldn't make commercial sense. Now, if Oscar Wilde had attended the 1889 Paris Exposition, it would be a different matter! But he didn't! Incidentally, the photograph you have reproduced in your video showing "The types of Edison phonographs" is definitely from the 1889 Paris Exposition NOT the 1900 one. Did you realise that?
Thanks for sharing expertise . . .
Just by changing the playback speed on the CZcams settings to .75, it's much easier to hear the details and compare the different recordings. Seems to me, that the cadence and syllable accents matched father and son. Also, I changed it to .25 and can hear the mechanisms of the equipment.
I wouldn't hesitate to guess, that the "experts" mentioned in the video, were just a couple of dismissive, know it all librarians!
I can’t help it, I liked Stephen Fry best.
I recognized Fry, and Robert Morley: who was the actor in between?
Fry is probably the closest in looks.
Lucius1958 Peter finch
If that recording had been made on the Edison commercial recorder of the time there would have been far less surface noise and far better intelligibility. Mark Twain is another great literary figure whose voice has not been captured . Evidently he did record several readings at the Edison studio but they were not to his satisfaction and were never released. These archived recordings were lost on December 9, 1914 in a fire that destroyed Thomas Edison's laboratory complex in West Orange, New Jersey.
It is not known whether Twain ever recorded for Edison. He did, however, record for Bettini: unfortunately, those cylinders are also lost to history.
The recitation is ludicrous. It seems impossible to me that the man who wrote the 'Ballad of Reading Gaol' could have performed such a reading.
The poem is snide - it was written by a man in prison with a serious psychiatric problem - he is arguing that his form of ancient punishment is more civilising than the legal punishments of his day - it's an lunatic's argument against his imprisonment, not an argument against capital punishment.
@@ShowalterdontlikeME forgive me but I'm not sure that's for you to say
If he had a beautiful voice, then I'd say that is NOT him in the recording. He sort of reminds me of Bob Geldof, and I picture his voice like Sir Bob's, which would be nice.
Back in the 70s, I read a news article that a study was made to see how the voice of the Mona Lisa would have sounded, based on the appearance of her throat. I never heard anything more about it, but it may be interesting for the purpose of this article.
Should one simply read Wilde as he wished we would, clearly his voice will appear to us. For me it is the sound of genius, intellect, compassion, and the sound of a man whose life was lived not in shame but rather in pain, the pain he surely suffered due to his trial and cruel punishment. Reading his work we can hear his voice clearly.
so in the Richard Ellis biography of Oscar Wilde, there are varoius apendices. One of them is one of his lectures with dictation symbols over every vowel/syllable denoting how he would have pronounced his words and speed etc . This was made when he was alive , since doing impressions of celebrities and people in general was a Victorian past time and talent; thus mimicking Oscar Wilde was a "must know" for those who wanted to be good mimics. Wilde's manner of speaking was very deliberate, as everything about him was deliberate and he made sure of that. Hence the way he speaks, like his clothes, are theatrical (his clothes were tailored by a theater tailor), especially because he made most of his money doing lecture.
He spoke slowly , slow enough to enunciate everything as he wanted and for the audience to understand him, with pauses in the middle of a sentence. His words would lilt up and down at certain points and , for example, he would pronounce the word "poor" as "poah". Thus a sentence of his could potentially be: "Thare IS ...NO ....foah even the MOST of the< poah>....to LIVE ....in a that is AESTHETICALLY just as.... ..." (Here, the words in all caps would be an upward inflection and the words in would be a downward inflection).
Hope that helps and gives an idea. basically, Stephan Fry in "Wilde" was doing his best at this.
Thank you for assembling these pieces. The person in the video doesn't look tall enough to be Oscar. One of my books described his tone, phonetics, lilting and emphasis of particular syllables very clearly. Another book given to me by the Oxford professor who wrote it, tells anecdotes by Wilde's friends there, and these give an idea of how he spoke. It's his anniversary on 30th November. I used to go to The Cadogan Hotel for Green Carnations (Champagne and Midori) invented by the sommelier.
My opinion is that the recording is not of Oscar Wilde's voice. The intonation of the speech does not sound appropriate to the poem's emotional content. A writer would read his own work with a more authentic tone. But this was very interesting -- thank you so much for posting! I appreciate hearing from another Wilde fan.
Thank you for this wonderful piece of research. Amazing idea to juxtapose the two voices! i find the voice of Vivian Holland quite similar to that of the recording but I would not describe it as a beautiful voice whereas Wilde's voice was described as beautiful. So mystery, mystery...
What a great dissection and analysis of both Wilde (possible voice) and his son Vivian's voice! Great argument made!
Superbly researched and riveting as feck! Well done! 👏👏👏
Are there any recordings of Lord Alfred Douglas's voice?
One thing about vintage recordings I don't understand (as a musician and sound designer) - why don't they remove all the clicks and crackles? The original recording on its first playback would have had none - they only appear later as a result of repeated playing and mishandling. Removing them is very easy (if time-consuming) with currently available software, and will hardly affect the quality of the recording. I would really like to hear the alleged recording of Wilde once it has been "cleaned up."
The second alleged recording of Wilde sounds like the first one, except played at a higher speed. In the early days of recording, the speed among recording as well as playback machines varied signifigantly.. We could monkey with the CZcams settings on this video and listen to them at various speeds.
I don't think, that the testimony of Wilde's son is necessarily accurate. Listening to a familiar voice, which someone hasn't heard in years, can take a dozen listens over several days, to come to recognize it again. I hadn't heard my grandfather, since he died 50 years ago. I was very familiar with his voice and uncovered a tape recording of it. Playing it back, it didn't quite sound familiar, until I'd listened to it over a few days, then it was just as if he were alive and speaking to me, when I was 10 years old. When I first listened to the recording, it was kind of like listening to a recording of my own voice. Many people are familiar how a recording of their own voice, doesn't sound like their own voice to them.
Anyway, I'm inclined to give the alleged recording of Oscar Wilde the benefit of the doubt, rather than dismiss them.
I really enjoyed your video,it's excellent. Yes it would be very nice to know for sure if it is his voice. Every day I pass the house where he was born and the house he lived in as a child. I read somewhere that if Wilde was alive today he'd get a tougher sentence. The under age boys that he had relations with would be considered even more underage nowadays. I wonder if he lived today would people enjoy him and at the same time still want to pull him down as they love to do. The recording sounds so authentic just like the accent. This was before all these phony accents came about that we hear around us. He was so entertaining.
Thanks so much for your research. This was fascinating.
Vyvyan Holland had his father's lips, and sons often sound like their fathers. It's interesting to see how Vyvyan aged; it shows us what Oscar might have looked like if he'd lived longer.
exactly what I was thinking, I would bet that Oscar's voice was not that different from his son's.
@@omfug7148 they would Oscar was born in Ireland, his son in England completely different accents
A shame he didn't live in more enlightened times. A posthumous pardon is too little to late. Where were his dinner friends when he needed them? Shame on them.
More to the point: Oscar Wilde was a Freemason... so where the hell were they at the time of their brother's arrest, prosecution + conviction???
Freemasons never were of any value to society - not even to themselves.
@ Hubert Lane-Nicholson Freemasons have done as much good as any secretive, males-only club has ever done; charitable causes, fraternity among males of all races (Black masonry was a reality in the United States in the 1700s, with white masons avidly advancing their cause). Masons, Elks. Oddfellows, etc. are generally a way to preserve power in a society where class structure is threatened, and it certainly was in O.W.'s day. Even in an Empire that spanned the Earth, sympathy towards conquered peoples, Socialism, feminism were gaining the support of the intelligentsia and the social justice advocates of the day (Sorry, the term social justice warrior conjures up fat, screaming women with bare breasts and blue hair, hardly something an aesthete would care to rub elbows with). Allowing that Oscar enjoyed his privileges as the Lord of the Language, his personal kindness and -dare I say-humility were touching and childlike. His fellow prisoners in Reading were astonished and moved by his tales and stories, in the words of one old worthy "Ee do talk nice, don't ee, gov?" I remember TRYING to read "The Happy Prince" to my children and giving up each time, bursting into sobs before finishing. Without his jewels, gold, even in the days when he was an eyesore, our Prince's most beautiful gifts WERE his broken heart and sparrows, the most faithful of the little seed gatherers being Frank Harris. I am quite sure you have read his bio of O.W. if you have not, you are missing a treat. But as to 'where they were' they could not publicly identify themselves or Oscar as a Freemason. The strict protocol of silence and anonymity was taken VERY seriously at the time, with suspected cases of murder involving the betrayal of secrets. Heads of nations, those in power (to include prime ministers, parliament, the house of Lords) were members of the masonic order and to be associated with a scandal this shocking-no modern equivalent can I think of that could convey its meaning, at a time when Queen Victoria did not believe that pedophiles or prostitutes even existed, they were the 'vile aspersions of disordered minds.' Sad but true.
Everyone thinks the time they live in is more enlightened than others. People of the future will sneer at ours as would people from Oscar's time if they could see into the future to see ours. The only way we can judge is how someone is compared to the morals of their time.
@andrew chambers I was responding to the original poster. I don't disagree with what you say.
@Anne Reilley "Celebrity gets into legal trouble, loses A list status, ends up on skid row.' The more things change, the more they stay the same.
As a lifelong Wilde fan, thank you for your fascinating video. In terms of the performances of actors as Wilde, I'm actually a big fan of Peter Finch. Stephen Fry is just simply too nice and urbane. Wilde's curtain call caused a scandal (he was also smoking at the time, which was considered vulgar, particularly in the presence of ladies), and I think Finch gets the subtle posturing of defiance must better, based on what I've read. Wilde said he lost his Irish accent at Oxford, but I can believe that Finch's Wilde may *once* have had an Irish accent, not Fry's (maybe being Australian, not English helps).
Appendix B of Richard Ellmann's biography gives an impression of how Wilde spoke, from the book Impersonations by Helen Potter, published in 1891. It uses signs to mark the pitches and transitions of his speech. "The closing inflection of a sentence or period is ever upward". Have you seen it.
Brilliant investigation, thank you very much for it!
Very interesting! So, Vyvyan Holland visited my current hometown of Seattle, did he? He must have had good taste in stopovers. Also, where did you get that footage of two actors next to Oscar's tomb in Paris? I'd love to see the rest of that. I visited that tomb in April 2006 during a month-long solo trip to Ireland; it was a kind of pilgrimage I'd been wanting to make since I was in high school, and I finally found the right opportunity. This was before Oscar's tomb was covered by glass plates after being cleaned of lipstick kisses. In fact, I visited the site twice while I was in Paris; and both times, I truly hated to leave. Just being there firsthand was immensely moving. Have you been to see Oscar's tomb yourself? Anyway, great job with this video... :)
Alas, the Vyvyan Holland interview video is no longer up!! And I was really looking forward to seeing and hearing the whole thing. Dammit... >:(
I personally think that Fry’s performance was best and that he resembles not only Wildes appearance best, but also simply must resemble his voice.
Fry always loved Wilde, grew up with his stories and he is, to this day one of his greatest idols. Because of his deep connection to Wilde, I believe that he just knows how Wilde spoke and behaved.
He wrote beautiful fairy tales.
Heartbreaking ones.
Mark T. Yes. Like jewels dropped from Gods heart. Always wanted to see them adapted to the stage by SOMEONE.
Stephen Fry was wonderful
I think his timing was poor. (and i like him so that's not a factor)
And I like ya' and I want cha'
Alejandra Fragoso Marín SuJu,TVXQ/JYJ&2PM in the movie Stephen Fry come over as Stephen Fry.
Great video. Sadly inconclusive, yet very enlightening. Thanks for posting.
Wow Robert Morley is really young and Stephen Fry is a dead ringer for Wilde..
Stephen Fry was Born To Be Wild.
Peter Finch in the second clip.
Who doesn’t love listening to Fry speak! His elocution is perfect!
As I recall, from an article by Allen Koenigsberg, the "Wilde" recording referenced by his son came from the collection of one Roscoe Conkling - the same source as the disputed "Whitman" recording.
The voices of Oscar and his son are very similar. Oscar is known to have had that white suit in Paris and to have been very tall. His gait was also described as fairly clumsy by some people who knew him. I see and hear things that convince me it is him.
He sounded like a cross between John Inman and Julian Clary with overtones of Larry Grayson.
You can't compare the two wax cylinder recordings for one reason: one was sample was digitally taken directly from the source, and the other is clearly a recording of a wax cylinder being played through a speaker.
Everything else you spoke about holds up, though.
Until somebody invents a time machine, there's no way to prove if any recording is actually Wilde.
OW has always been a personal hero for me ... thank you so much for creating this !
I was just thinking about Oscar Wilde voice and this video appears! What a research, this was amazing. Thank you so much! I love Wilde. Can you tell me what film is showed in the minute 16? It looks quite new.
Some were bothered by Wilde's slow cadence when speaking. Yeats noted the slowness as well as his "precise" modulation of expression, "My first meeting with Oscar Wilde was an astonishment. I never before heard a man talking with perfect sentences, as if he had written them all over night with labour and yet all spontaneous.[....]I heard him say a few nights later: “Give me The Winter’s Tale, ‘Daffodils that come before the swallow dare’ but not King Lear. What is King Lear but poor life staggering in the fog?” and the slow cadence, modulated with so great precision, sounded natural to my ears."
Stephen Fry gets it right. The first two interpretations are arrogant and supercilious; characteristics British people naturally despise.
The comment could only have been made ironically from a person who , like Stephen Fry, was generally regarded with affection by the contemporary public and who understood the in-joke .
Don't forget, accents have changed since those days. Virginia Woolf and Nancy Mitford (later) were laughed at because of what people considered affected accents. As far as they were concerned, these ladies were just talking normally.
Fry doesn't have any expertise in the matter, though, being Fry, he figures that it being his opinion is all that anyone needs to take it as definitive. The answer is that there is no way to be certain.
Have you actually lived in England?
Have you or Stephen Fry lived in the time of Oscar Wilde? Did you ever hear his voice?
Anthony McCarthy: And you have?
Nice video / essay. Thanks.
I've been fascinated by Wilde for umpteen years. I'd seen the interview with Vyvyan Holland some years ago and then bought his autobiography to see what light it might shine on his dad. It's certainly a fascinating (and very sad) book.
I too would love to think that was Oscar in the white suit. And I've s sneaking suspicion that it just might be. I mean look at everybody else dressed head to toe in black! The person in the white suit (and there certainly are photographs of him dressed similarly) just leaps out at you as someone who wanted to be different. Which isn't conclusive, of course. But it is similar to his build (also from contemporary photographs).
It's a shame that the quality of the recording is so poor. Cleaning it up some with some basic hiss-removal etc might work wonders. (OK. So if no one else does it, I might be tempted to have a crack myself...)
And nice to see there's so many Wilde fans out there!
The recordings sound like the voice of a much older man than Wilde lived to be. The fact that they sound like his son as an old man only underlines this.
Max Beerbohm said something mysterious about Wilde's way of speaking. He described it as like a flower unfolding.
Wilde was probably broken by his prison and post-prison experiences. Also, he was reciting with a "bardic" diction as in recordings of Eliot and Yeats.
Sounds like Bertrand Russell
Bonjour! J'ai écouté votre commentaire avec grand intérêt... L'idée que la voix d'Oscar Wilde ait pu être enregistrée, miraculeusement sauvée de l'oubli, était incroyable, mais restait dans le domaine du possible. Techniquement réalisable avec les moyens de l'époque. C'était beau. Trop peut-être, pour être vrai et je dois vous avouer que jamais je n'aurais pensé il y a 25 ans (lorsque j'ai découvert l'enregistrement) que celui-ci ait pu être "bidon". J'ai cru comprendre qu'Oscar Wilde s'était rendu à l'Exposition Universelle; un stand Edison était effectivement là, avec la machine capable de graver des sons (d'enregistrer, donc) sur des rouleaux de gomme-laque. Quel dommage! C'était magique, d'entendre cette voix en imaginant Oscar Wilde en 1900, en train de réciter son poème, laissant là un ultime témoignage, peu de temps avant qu'il ne meurt.
Many years ago I was told that this recording was a spoof by Max Beerbohm.
Peter Baxter If that is so, it may sound v. much like Wilde.
Indeed. Beerbohm did have a wicked sense of humour, so it could have been by way of a caricature.
Hmm, yes indeed, you could be right! I wouldn’t put it past him.
You would think that with the technology available most of the ambient sound could be nullified greatly. This is a very good doco. Do more. I believe also that he was 6ft 2in and in that period he would have stood out.
My take on the side by side comparison of the old recording in question and that of OW's son: they seem very similar to me in terms of tone, timber, accent and delivery. Perhaps more astonishing is that, given that Edison's commercial product and recording technology was around for over a decade before Wilde's death and in addition, the fact that Wilde is known from his time to ours as the foremost speaker of his day (or of any other time) makes it even sadder that in terms of that technology, this is all we have... and maybe not even that. I'm reminded of the equally frustrating fact that, long after audio and visual recording had a high degree faithful reproductin, we have many instances of a similar absence of audio-visual records of so many people of note, people who were well esteemed in their own time. There are so many examples of this, but the one that always sticks with me is the absence of audio-visual records of Lennie Bruce, who was as much a figure of controversy in the 1950s and 60s as Wilde was in his day. Bruce was and is recognized by critics, fans and many of the best standup comics since Bruce's time, to be one of the most highly respected founding fathers of standup comedy. There are a few record albums available on vinyl and now in digital form, that were professionally recorded on (I believe) professional equipment, but as for audio-visual recordings, there is not one second of quality recording.
“Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
― Oscar Wilde
You really do know who your genuine friends are, when you fall on tough times and people turn against you, the ranks tend to thin considerably.
01:38: Spot on. That I can only be as graceful and as snarky when I die as Oscar Wilde..thank you so much.💜
Anyone who knows a bit about early recording made in around 1900 knows that the supposed "Wilde" recording has more higher frequencies than any recording device of the era could achieve. The noise spectrum is also totally separate from the voice.
Oscar wilde was a analytical genius of man's culture
You left out the best rendition: Graham Chapman's from The Oscar Wilde Sketch.
Your highness is like a jelly donut.
@@lunacavemoth I wish I had said that... ;)
Oh wow, such an important person and is that the only recording of his voice?
That’s a pity :(
Mk3 did u not watch? It’s a fake
"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." ~ "There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." ~ "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.
" ~ "Ordinary riches can be stolen; real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
" ~ "Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
" ~ "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
" ~
A few of Oscars more in-depth, insightful, and emotional quips.
MyelinProductions he was the Shakespeare of his day, no doubt. Very few since have had such wit and intelligence that so many years after the are gone their words not only are still spoken but ring just as true.
“To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.”
@@PetroicaRodinogaster264 Amen Little Birdy! Love his Insight. Be Well & Safe.
Going on some of Oscar Wilde’s quotes I get the impression that although being treated appallingly for being gay, the man comes across aloof and condescending to the poor and less educated than himself.
This could be either standard Victorian/Edwardian attitudes, or a defense mechanism from a man who felt his own persecution far more sharply than he would ever admit.
Barbara 1 He wouldn’t have been seen dead with people like you and I unless we were his undertakers, fellow inmates in prison, or we were dressed in leather and were in the back room of a seedy brothel. Of course he was aloof and condescending. Because he was Irish, the English aristocracy looked down on him, and so in turn he looked down on the French middle class, and all of them looked down on us mere plebs.
But, what has that got to do with the sheer joy of listening to his wit? Caravaggio was a murderer as well as homosexual, but I don’t think of either when I am in front of one of his paintings. Nor do I care that the subjects are usually christian mythology. I just enjoy the brushstrokes. And with Wilde I just enjoy the way the words are knitted together.
@@artistjoh Well then, I'd likely have met him in my leather corsetry in some of those seedy back rooms, and shared a bon mot and raised eyebrow over absinthe and clove cigarettes. I doubt that it's coincidence that an old favourite bar with rather dubious back rooms that I used to frequent (and has unfortunately since closed), was called "Wilde Oscar's". Yes, they served absinthe, imported from the Czech Republic, and well overpriced. Delightfully decadent, darlings.
@@artistjoh "dressed in leather and were in the back room of a seedy brothel"... Is it the only thing that comes in your mind when thinking of gay people? Depraved people dressed in leather and getting banged in a borthel? Well, it seems we're not done yet with disgusting homophobia...
Jean-Alexandre Laigle You sir, are a priggish bigot if you think that in any way I was suggesting that the only possible gay experience was a leather experience at the back of seedy brothels. However, if you cared to read any history in depth, you might discover that in this time period, it was one of the few places where wealthy gay people could meet. Cole Porter was notorious for seeking his gay experience in this manner and was famously blackmailed for doing so. However, it is safe to assume that most people were not wealthy and therefore most gay people never used those services. However, even more ignorantly on your part, you failed to notice that I was painting humorous metaphors that were not intended to be taken seriously. Perhaps you should learn to think before talking and reflect on the limited scope of your imagination. Life has many more layers than your inner anger and intolerance. I do, however, applaud your ability to expose the limitations of your intellect in such a succinct and pointed fashion.
Richard Ellmann's book Oscar Wilde Pub 1987 in Appendix B has an interesting note by a woman who heard OW speak in America and offers a detailed account of his way of accenting and pausing, personally I think there must have always been a certain Irish 'lilt' to his voice, none of us really get away from our roots as it were, it can be perceived in the way he wrote his plays and prose.
This was a lovely video. Thanks for doing it. Wilde was one of a kind, never to be repeated, I think.
Oscar Wilde an Irishman though? I'm not too familiar with his history, more with his mother's work actually, but wouldn't it stand to reason that as an Irishman, he'd have an Irish accent rather than an English one?
“My Irish accent was one of the things I forgot at Oxford.” Wilde.
Emily Watson bate it out of him
he probably had a natural irish accent but put on a fake english one
He was indeed an Irishman, but was educated in England. Moved there as a young man, no reason to think he had a 'brogue' at all.
@@madamvaudelune3298 he was educated in Northen Ireland at Portura Royal School -a lycee in French terms .
fascinating stuff
the photographs are so revealing and lovely to have but it would be fantastic to have something substantiated beyond doubt of Wilde on audio or film
He died far to early he was an extraodinary human being
Thanks for the video. Very interesting.
Fry, visually, so close and amazing.
Hmm - Consider doing a similar BIOcast on Charles Dickens?
This is fascinating... Why doesn't someone do a digital clean-up of the static so that we can hear the voice alone? That should be doable, perhaps with some amplification, without losing the original signal.
You can do it yourself, with practice. It's called 'listening through', and it's a technique used in radio interception, to listen to a weak background signal through a powerful prominent one.
It leads to deafness, if you do it for too long.
In the case of this recording, it becomes abundantly clear that the voice recording is clear and precise, with no drop-outs or distortions; far above anything recorded directly by mechanical means only.
The 'surface noise' is clearly added over the voice recording, which would suggest that the final result is not what it is purported to be.
With the technology we now have to isolate voices or instruments from a full musical recording, I'm sure scratchy recordings like these can be cleaned up considerably if not completely. It would be a great thing to get that done!
Fascinating....very cool! Thanks!
His prison poem must have been recorded in the brief period between his release and subsequent death. He would already have been in poor health. Relying purely on logic I would say the voice on the recording does not sound like a person with failing health. The background noise, I think, is rather 'overdone,' while the voice quality is too full for such an early recording. I have heard other phonograph recordings of that period that, though distorted, are far easier to listen to. On the plus side, the recorded voice is similar in quality to his son. Surely there must be technology to removed the background noise so the voice recording can be analysed?
This raises the question of whether the son is the person on the recording.
Greg Camp,
I think that you have a very good point there.
This is fascinating, but for me it is "much ado about nothing". (Woops... wrong writer!) I already have Oscar Wilde's voice on my book shelf. It's called "The Complete Works of Oscar Wilde" and I've read the whole thing. He was so much more than just a writer of witty plays and a single phenomenal novel.. His short stories are wonderful, especially the ghost tale ( a riot!). The fairy tales are great fun as well, and he wrote poems. However, it is in his prison letters that one seems him at his most despairing of course, and his most nakedly vulnerable. He had that razor sharp wit and could probably shred a human being on the spot with his tongue when necessary, yet he was a hopeless romantic at heart. Human after all...
Another issue that must be considered is that Victorian English theatrical elocution was very different from today's. It sounds alien and 'forced' to us.
@Axgoodofdunemaul excellent point. The Royal Albert Hall, when it was built, has such poor acoustics that mushroom -shaped constructions were placed on the top of the ceiling to reflect sound, you couldn't have heard a bull bellow in the front row, and the orchestra was all but inaudible in the back. Some of the very early 'talkies' show the same type of 'classical' elocution, long before method acting realism was a 'thing.'
Alcohol, taken in sufficient quantities, produces all the effects of drunkenness.
Good work!
I think its him in the video. When you see the photo online of Wilde in his white suit and dark hat, that is exactly what the man in the video is wearing. Also, the length of the jacket appears to be the same.
I'd say that the supposed voice of Oscar Wilde is actually the voice of Vivian Holland. The two voices do sound very alike and have a similar speed and lilt.
That full cut white suit and the lumbering gate would seem to fit Wilde’s physique and style
if i could ask to know one single peson it would be Oscar Wilde i can just imagine how genious he was, his friends said he was better at talking that writing, wow i love him
Nice video. Well done.
I want it to be his voice. I've loved his books for so long. But feel down I dont think its him
The audio recording may be an actor, acquaintance, or impressionist of the time doing an impression of Wilde's voice, just as the closest thing we have to day of a recording of Mark Twain's voice is an actor who was familiar with Twain doing an impression of him.
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