Heroes in History: Shinobi
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- čas přidán 20. 09. 2021
- I wanted to get this out of the way early since the testing grounds end soon and I'd rather use footage for updated shinobi instead of the current meta. I've already done a video where I discuss in great detail the true history of the shinobi, and I've done more than one reply to Gaijin Goombah where I address some of the misconceptions in his videos, so consider this my final nail in the coffin of this particular discussion point. I love shinobi, but there are only so many ways I can say the same things. ^^
This video was fun to work on, but it definitely gave me a headache. I'm taking a short break now from Heroes in History since I just released two in a row and I'd like some time to rest my head. Thanks for your understanding.
Please consider subscribing, liking, and commenting on the video! Join the discord if you haven't yet, and stay awesome. - Hry
Thank you! I’ve literally got told I was wrong by a history teacher when I said that ninjas were more like spies then assassins
High School teachers basically just spout bs at their students about their own fantasy’s
Something that would've been interesting as a nod to the Shinobi's origins is that some of the outfits he wears are actual disguises for the other factions, such as attire that makes him look like a Peacekeeper, a Berserker or later on, Shaolin.
I agree
That would be awesome
You honestly bring more respect to the shinobi than Gaijin Goomba has ever done.
More like Gaijin prefers to teach through pop culture and get more people to watch it while Raven is Basically doing "Which ninja" for for honor and shinobi. Gaijin does more justice to shinobi because he spreads the truth to more people
@@beatdeath9962 i agree, takes his time critec ones in media and pop culture and shows whats wrong with all of them. Siting his sources as well, that a real big part
While Gaijin does cover various pop culture shinobis and rank them, the problem is that his choice of sources are questionable and his own rules often lack consistency. Raven points these out and more in his own response to Gaijin's Which Ninja series. czcams.com/video/6LzWFWloYcc/video.html
@@GeistDrachen Except one problem.
Everything Raven said about what the shinobi really were and what they're like I already learned FROM Gaijin Goomba. Raven didnt bring anything new to the table or dispelled any misconceptions Gaijin hasn't already done himself.
he really didn't gaijin basically already has said all this
"sorry weeaboos and Gaijin Goomba fans" as if they're different lmao
Ten thousand 14 year olds cry out with dislikes and rage comments
@@laserlights9684 so far only one dislike 😂
@@mozambiquehere5903 yes yes. But time will tell
@@laserlights9684 this did not age well 😂
You know, considering how many Okinawan weapons are often assocaited with the Shinobi nowadays, I have a feeling that modern day ninjas combined the actual Shinobi folklore with the Okinawan's history with the Japanese. I mean, that whole “farmers rebelling against the Samurai” possibly had some origins in Okinawa...from what I found on it of course.
I think that has more to do with movies.
@@eagle162 Hm…yeah probably.
The Octogon with Chuck Norris mixed the Kobudo weapons with Shinobi history.
That's another myth
Oh God finally!? I learned all this when watching Metatron and I'm glad even you know the non fantastical version of history. Unfortunately pop culture and fiction have distorted what was actually true
The story you gave to paint the idea of what actual shinobi would’ve operated reminded me of something I heard a long while back. “It’s not the shark you see that you should be scared of, it’s the shark you don’t.”
You got a new subscriber here! I love Japanese history and culture and I’m always interested in knowing more.
Welcome to the club man glad to have you 👍
I’m excited for this one, surprisingly.
How I like to imagine this is that the pop culture interpretation of ninjas was a way for the samurai to cope with the real ninjas, as looking out for a sillouhette is a lot easier and less terrifying than having NOTHING to go off of and never knowing where, or even WHO were them
Yep. That's right. I appreciate video like this because help spread the message.
A lot of people still believe a bunch crap about ninjas but I can't completely blame them, the misinformation about the shinobi can be dated even back to the Edo period.
I think that's the point, misinformation is a great tool for stealth
This one was a great video, and it’s great to see Shinobi get a breakdown they deserve, even if, for the most part, it wasn’t about comparing For Honor to the actual historical characters. I have to ask, what were those hand to hand combat demonstrations between those men in armor?
That's a reenactment of samurai fight
You totally scared the shit out of that Warmonger at 12:06. Great video overall. I am absolutely loving Shinobi right now.
I truly love these types of videos. I just like sitting down and listening to it in the background. That ending segment had me rolling.
I honestly love this series please don’t stop till you have done all of them 😂👍🏻
Just found your channel and im liking these videos in particular. Cant wait for shugoki
Raven thank you for the amazing videos you make my day a little better bc I'm having a bad and with each video keep up the amazing content and your thoughts on everything you would like to cover
I like that even more that a For Honor video, this is a great explanation of what the shinobi really where in contrast to the social media adaptation, maybe this video is too similar for me to the first part of your other shinobi video (where you explained his history) but I still enjoyed a lot.
Take care.
Interesting thing with that story concerning Oda nobody knows if that guy was actually a ninja or not it is said he might have come from koga but no conclusive evidence.
The thing about ninja being founders of new techniques may have its roots with the likes of the samurai clans in koga and iga( among others) being specialized in information gathering and Commando tactics because of their situations and environments.
Shinobi also had many different names depending on the region or Clan they are associated with like Suppa,Rappa and Kusa.
the other jobs shinobi were use for included Commando/Guerrilla work the Rappa were notorious for their brutality.
About the kusarigama in close range the chain could actually be use in more a grappling situation wrapping around your opponent, the image of the sickle shown is a farming one but kusarigama's sickle was a Jingama they were use on the battlefield some schools still teach them like Yagyu Singan Ryu, came in many different versions,different kind of blades, some have points on top or a second blade on the back, some with more like a war pick then a sickle, could even come with handguards.
Which the Shinobi in for Honor kusarigama looks to take more inspiration from a flying kama.
czcams.com/video/vrTi17J7zzM/video.html
Interesting enough there does seem to be some references to kusarigama in a battlefield context.
togetter.com/li/1656600
This is only in Japanese however sorry about that.
About Stephen Trumbull, I have not read his Ninja Book my friend does say it's decent, however which I do not wish to discredit the man he doesn't have the best reputation among other Scholars or Japanese history Buffs, he did another Ninja Book after this one from the little I read and from one review it appears to be riddled with Ninja Myths, don't know why, the book and the article he published a few years ago on ninja came across to me as him trying to sabotage reputation by going extreme in the opposite direction that is my impression however, at the very least he is better than Anthony Cummins, just wanted to share that.
Thanks for the info dump, stuff is pretty interesting
Excellent video raven! Love these heroes in history videos.
This was so good! I love these historical videos.
Nice work on the videos, hope lark is doing well. I'm sick, too, hopefully not with the bovid, and your videos are always nice to watch when sick or healthy. I have been seeing some of the posts on the discord server from you, hoping comments aren't getting to your brain. Keep up the good work, my guy, the "grind" is only good when you feel good, so take it easy.
Love this series although it takes a while to make but I'm glad you focuse more on quality over quantity
Great video, as always, Raven
I knew they were spies but I totally forgot where I learned it. I'm glad to have it confirmed.
I obviously expected that most of the things that are said about them are just a fabrication, it's interesting to have the actual historic description. They are honestly very fascinating.
The Shinobi in For Honor could never have been realistic because of the nature of the game. They wouldn't even be in the game if they were in their realistic form. But it's pretty cool, they still tried to make them somewhat accurately, but they kept some pop culture things like them disappearing and all that.
well this is a great idea for a video I'm excited for the next one
Raven great vid
Great video makes me like Shinobi even more now.
Loved this video
Ninja will always be represented by the pop culture variant in games because it’s more interesting. The more historical the better but taking liberations to have an interesting take on Ninja that people want to play is most important. It’s why we play as Snake or Sam Fisher in stealth games. They’re exaggerated one man armies.
I’d love to see a ninja stealth game where you can play accurate to a ninja, like no traces runs in metal gear or the hitman game challenges.
I wouldn't say it's more interesting, besides spy work ninja were involved with arson, Commando work,criminal captured agents, military camps /Castle Defense, Etc.
Id say tenchu but thats an assassin game
17:40 love the edits lmao for a short clip it was pretty funni
Lov the vid homie...still cant believe I ran into you in a game of for honor
Love the video! By the way, what's the name of the music at the end? It's awesome!
Exhalent work just like all your content
He actually did it!
Awesome vid I assume the idea of the black suits come from sneaking indoors since they don’t have natural blue light indoors if they were scouting for guards on a property I’d assume they would use blue suits since natural light is blue
As a main Shinobi, this video was SO AMAZING
10/10 content
Cool vid!
Another great vid raven
Keep it up
Who's next?
I want to see shugoki
The idea of Samurai vs Ninja originates from the Shinobi who stood against Oda Nobunaga for many years, they were experts of guerrilla warfare and Nobunagas armies of samurai were almost useless against the Shinobi who lived off the land, eventually Nobunaga won but it was one of history’s most notable accounts of Shinobi and it was a time where they stood against samurai. So it is still a misconception but there is truth to its origin
If I remember correctly they also took one of his castles.
5:55 "Nekko-kagi" lol, I think the cat people just got into the Raven's head
Raven just got the Neko-te and Tekko-Kagi mixed so bad he said Neko-Kagi
Amazing video, Raven! Question, though: at one point you mentioned a samurai was something you were born in to, while I know thats true wasnt there a period where you could become one? Just dont want to get my history mixed. Thanks!
Yes. Before the Edo period, you could become samurai by moving up the social ladder. This could be done through favor of daimyo, local governors, the Emperor, the Shogun, and other means. But after the Edo period, Toyotomi Hideyoshi passed law that all were locked to their social status. Samurai were born samurai. Peasants were born peasants.
@@RavenKnightYT Thanks, man! Love your content!
The clip that is around 6:50. Where is that from? I am trying to get into HEMA and i want to learn more about that specifically. Also great video look forward to more content. Especially knight content.
that's not hema, hema is european. this is some form of japanese combat, something like iaido combined with grappling techniques from something like jiu jitsu. if you want to learn more about japanese fighting check out Metatron, he has several videos about martial arts and has knowledge of kendo. he also refers to other channels or peoplee sometimes that might offer more information on specific topics.
I would love one about tiandi!
Another heavy inspiration that wasn’t noted here was the Onmitsu, although this name has actually been given to an armor set for the Kyoshin. The Onmitsu (or Oniwaban), which translates literally as spy or agent, was a secret service agency used by the Bakufu (Tokugawa Shogunate). These agents were hand hand picked by the Bakufu for special operations and intelligence, as well as some alleged assassinations, and serves as a major inspiration for the modern depiction of ninja.
Sources:
Ninshidan
Wikipedia
Can you make a video on which factions in For Honor will win?
I already did. I made three videos on the subject.
@@RavenKnightYT title or link?
@@dairydregone7146 They’re called For Honor Analysis: Who Would Win. I’m assuming you’re a recent viewer of Raven Knight?
Personally, historical Shinobi r just as cool as fictional Shinobi.
very nice closing comment
Oh cool he did the thing I wanted him to do at the end of videos
I enjoy the information of Shinobi and how they were in real life, they were spy master of information and disguise, it made me like them even more then the fantasy version especially the samurai story you told. and can you please do tTandi it my main and I would like to more information about them and how realistic or fantasy they are in the for honor game
I haven't played for honor in 2 years now, might go back. Please do zhanhu that's my boi !!!
One thing that is often forgotten about The Shinobi in For Honor is that they and The Aramusha are a part of the same assassin group.
I think that in History, some Ninja or Shinobi are samurai. I means Hanzo Hattori, famous Shinobi is a samurai general under Tokugawa.
Another interesting fact is that orochi had training from the ninja clans, meaning shinobi
@@Hadras7094 oh that’s clean.
I think the shinobi is more a samurai who fights by combining ninjitsu and samurai training. After all the kuru-gama was a samurai weapon, also? All the samurai weapons save for the kanabo would suck against knight armor.
I mean, the darkness of the night depends on the moon and weather. In a brighter night I have no issue discerning details, but a moonless or obscured one gives host to so much black that details simply aren't there.
Black isn't so bad to wear, but know when.
100% accurate
Honestly a healthy dose of both fact and fantasy is the idea that I like most I like to see the roll of assains highlighted but I also love the idea of them being able to be anyone and using hidden weapons. For example a fluut player on the street who's fluut is made out of the stam of bamboe which makes it hard like a mace then can smash your head while you walked by. The whore who had steel hair needles in her hair she could use to stab you with while you were getting busy. Your wife with poision on her lips. The old wander which walk around with a cane sword which takes you out while your traveling the road. The farmer armed with kama you walk past at your way to the castel. The noble woman at the palace which fan's are made of steel and sharpend tips. The marshellartist street performer. The monk with his staff. A other samurai with his sword. Everyone can be a warrior and everything they carry a weapon, but you will never know who and what before it's to late. That for me is the most scary concept of a ninja. But I do understand ubisoft's take her these are ninja thrown on to the battlefield you wouldn't want them to be heavely armed and armored cause the most logical rol for them would be to run into enemy territory to cause chaos which let's be honest they do well. Also some kusarigarma had the chain connected to the bottom of the handel and not the top this means you can knot the part of the chain with weight around your arm and then you get what shinobi is doing. Which also would make sense in a battle sinds it also keeps you from dropping the blade. For pulling back a projectiel like that I have a lot of expierence with heavy whip like weapons(9 section whip, rope dart, 3 section staff) and you can actuely throw them out and catch the projectiel out of the air as cleanly as shinobi does, but it takes a lot of training sinds you have to pull back at preciesly the right moment or this wouldn't work with enough training it is easly possible however. Pulling someone close scorpion style I have to give you that one not gone happen it probably will just rip out the blade instead. Also you should give the kama more credit there not exactly light and hit with a lot of force, but yes you will have to move in dangereusly close and then retreet a lot sow not the best pick for a weapon in general, but if they had to choose any ninja style weapon I would probably have choosen this too. Also sai aren't knifes or daggers there baton's. There bassicly round staves of metal with pronges sticking out to catch attacks with. They don't even have a sharp point there rounded of or even flat ofcourse they can still trust, but that's like trusting with a staff it won't go deep, but it will still do some serieus blunt impact damages. They only look very light that's why people think there daggers in reallty there pretty darn heavy for there size and weigh close to the weight of all steel europeen buckler which I think you can agree on is a awfull lot more then you would possibly expect. Hope fully this practical info might actuely help out a little.
I won't deny, Kensei would be kinda cool
Well this is nice
Ninjas could be hired for a lot of things, one of my favourite stories of ninja is during Oda nobunagas conquests of Japan his allies hired hattori hanzo to strike fear into the people laying siege, they opened the gates and 5 ninja came out and killed some, and the rest fled, and something funny is that there were hundred of men laying seige. Yet there was only 20 men and 5 ninjas in the building…
Hey Raven, if you're not sure about where you stand concerning Shinobi videos check the number of views and the 'like to dislike' ratio. I think the way you mentioned Goombah is what triggered a few fans and it's normal when that sort of thing happens; that part is just a learning lesson.
On a more general note, Ninjas is a very popular topic and you do have over 15K subscribers. As your channel grows, some negativity is inevitable so don't let it discourage you. Please don't stop making certain videos unless you genuinely have no interest or passion to make them.
Samurai-To Serve. Yep. Born to Serve.
I hope for honor does add the tekko kagi as a weapon but not for another ninja type but make a brawler or angry kinda character
Speak of the devil I went on discord and this popped up immediately
Overall great video as people said, I do disagree with you calling out Goomba on the subject since there is a reason he has been hailed as a source of Shinobi information, the guy regularly goes to Japan to learn about the subject and has lived there for a long time, while I agree that sometimes he can make the Shinobi seem greater than life he always makes a point to not overstate their powers.
Besides that one thing that irked me slightly because I think this video and the original Shinobi video he made are excellent sources on introduction to Shinobi this has been an excellent watch as always and I wish I found your channel sooner than I did
The thing is not only does he get stuff wrong concerning ninja but Japanese history in general, and I'm sorry but just because somebody goes to a country or formerly lived there does not mean they are a reliable source it gives them an advantage but only if they do proper research, for example just because somebody lives in America does not mean they are a expert on the Civil War.
@@eagle162 I never claimed this made him an expert, I said that fact means he is someone who constantly tries to get new research, footage and information whenever he can.
Just because someone lives in the US doesn't make him an expert in civil war, but if he goes there every year to a location of a battle to learn more about the war it does give him some credibility.
I'm not saying he couldn't have been wrong, or that he never said anything that was incorrect, but unfortunately the subject of Shinobi is hard to follow, seeing how they were an esoteric group of people who's knowledge of existence could lead to torture and death
@@samaeltheangel3434 he said stuff that is incorrect however like his video about chain weapons and whatnot that one actually got me mad, shuriken coming from shaving coins (seriously where did he get that), referring to iga and koga as Clans when iga is a name of a province and koga is a town not Clans or never mentioning ninja was a job title most coming from the Samurai class instead treating them as separate groups.
Outside ninja related topics there's also referring to Samurai starts as Mercenaries when by definition no they are not or information regarding katanas that have been repeated for the past couple years like being made with bad Steel.
Seems to lack information regarding other historical topics like referring to the Spartans as a candidate for the greatest warriors ever when there was actually no evidence that they have a warrior culture often depicted in people's imagination that comes from way later works and their overall performance in their battlefield history is just average at best.
@@eagle162 look, I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes, he could have made many, many, many mistakes.
At the end of the day a lot of what he says is true. My problem with the video were the call outs. It felt... Childish and unnecessary. Look I'm all for some humour in videos about subjects like history, it helps making it more memorable, but that just felt... Unneeded.
For one I would love to hear a debate about the two as it could be very interesting, but secondly this just felt like a dig at people who enjoy learning on CZcams.
Yes a lot of his fans are weebs who love anime, but a a lot of his fans are people who also love learning about histories and cultures, and it felt like calling them out as well was wrong since I assume most people are here for the same thing
to quote his reply to a similar comment:
"Let me be clear: Goombah sensationalizes the ninja. He has claimed they “pioneered” combat, weapon, medical, and survival techniques. He has claimed they use near superhuman feats like overcoming physical hinderance through meditative trances and mantras, and while he has never called them assassins per-say, he HAS attributed many things to the ninja which are untrue, and uses a fraudulent source to support his reasoning.
I did not insult him in this video. I was teasing him. I’m sorry if you got the former impression. If you watched my previous videos replying to Goombah, you know I respect the man, but that doesn’t mean he’s immune from criticism or joking. Since he’s widely considered to be the “ninja CZcamsr” since it’s what he discusses the most, I think it’s funny to poke fun at some of his past claims. But if it bothers you, I’m sorry."
i hope this helps. also if you want to learn more about the shinobi no mono and their real history check out metatrons video on them (he also lived in japan for several years and actually studied the cultures of eastern asia at university and is now teaching that subject if i remember correctly).
Ninjas are awesome.
Maybe they couldnt implemnet the actual kusarigama since ut wud be hard to make if fit with the game's rules
Do Shigoki next please
They always wait for the right moment to strike 🥷🏽🙏🏽
-General Shinobi-
From a pesent to a hore got me dieing then I heard the part where raven talked about if the monk fisherman and gaisha could be a Shinobi then I was like. . .oooooohhhhhh
I'm still waiting for orochi, kensei and tiandi tbh
When you started off talking about the Ninja as the superhuman assassins, I was immediately like "Oh not this crap again, the Shinobi were just SPIES"
Glad I stuck around. I hate the idea of the super-human ninja. Or...well, I love the idea of it, but I don't like how it is nowhere NEAR the truth of the Shinobi.
I mean most pop culture icons are accurate so who cares
Yo raven maybr you can do a vid on why u hav a prob with narato's srory i wanna see your toughts
Sure!
Thnks man
For honest 😤
1:54
Use a VPN and all your fear of getting your information sold will disapear!
Just need pirates to settle the pop culture rivalry.
I mean, japan had pirates all over and nobody talks about them anymore.
We sure that rivalry is still ongoing? XD
3/4 shinobi opponent = easy win
1/4 shinobi opponent = wtf just happened
So, as someone who is a big fan of historically accurate shinobi, yes hollywood ninjas are cool, i like them for gaming cause i can have fun, but im much more a fan of history, what book or resource would you reccomend to learn more about shinobi? Anthony Cummings doesnt seem to reliable since hes basically selling us the bansenshukai
Ninja: Unmasking the Myth by Stephen Turnball is a good one.
@@RavenKnightYT anything else that would be as reliable? more then one source is always nice
@@OniLifes
Handbook to Life in Medieval and Early Modern Japan by William Deal.
Japan: its history, traditions, and religions: With the narrative of a visit in 1879, Volume 2 by James Reed.
Sengoku Shinobi no Sahō by Yuji Yamada.
I also recommend Metatron’s videos on the Shinobi which are very well done and researched. I would also offer “Way of the Samurai.com” the creator is a bit biased I admit, but many of the articles he places on his site are intriguing.
I would also lead you to the article: “Guns and Government: A Comparative Study of Europe and Japan” by Stephen Morillo. While it’s not about Shinobi specifically, it gives a very unique overview of the government in Japan that led to the need for Shinobi and how the powerful but harsh government led to revolutions that required information gathering (though I confess that’s my hypothesis into my analysis of the article). Given more time, I could contact my professor from college who has more resources than I do. Hahaha.
@@RavenKnightYT sheesh. More? Thats something aha. But thanks for all that. I gotta get on that when I have some down time from college. Probably starting with turnells book just to really clear up what i know as fact and fantasy. Not that fantasy ninja arent bad. They are the reason im here
amazing video just please work on your audio :)
What was that called at 15:05 ? That looked dope to watch
It's like how you can search up tournaments and fights of Knights fighting but it's in Japan and its samurai instead maybe try searching up
"Real life Samurai tournament"
Or something like that probably
@@beatdeath9962 thanks man
So based on what you've taught us about actual shinobi...
Does that mean of all the shinobi of pop cultures, Spy from Team Fortress 2 is by definition, a shinobi? Or at least how he's suppose to be played?
How about Tiandi?
Someone trying to steal and sell your info sounds like you need NordVPN
I feel like For Honor's Shinobi is quite a bit more historically accurate to the real historical Ninja than almost all other fictional Ninja types at least as far as pop culture Ninja depictions go anyway. For example, they are a part of the Samurai faction which in turn means they are allies to the Samurai. Samurai and Ninja, particularly if they were in the same clan, were allies historically. They wear a variety of colors historically which is shown ingame with the variety colors and armor materials which can be equipped and Ninja in history did wear white headbands at night so they could see eachother in the moonlight when working in teams which is also shown with some armor variations of Shinobi. They wear a variety of masks that existed in some way shape or form in medieval Japan. The Ninja mask has been called into question and was most likely never a standard for the Ninja but they likely did wear masks on certain missions and at least as much as the average Japanese citizen. Shinobi in For Honor wears masks just as much as most of the other Samurai heros so this one gets a pass for me. Shinobi's dual kama were a Ninja tool historically but were used to break fences and not as a weapon probably except as a surprise and/or backup improvised weapon as a secondary use so Shinobi using it as a primary weapon is inaccurate but if the game was realistic as far as weapons and armor go, there'd be nothing but Lawbringers, Shugokis, Conquerors, Warlords, Black Priors, Jiang Juns, and maybe Raiders with Chainmail, Wardens, Centurions, Kenseis with metal armor, and Tiandis so I'll give Shinobi a pass with his gear. Whether intentional or not, Shinobi in For Honor feels quite a bit more accurate than most other pop culture Ninja types. It's almost like Shinobi is a combination of the historical and pop culture Ninja.
17:35 DUDE IS THAT FARAAM?!
FARAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
🤠👍🏿
By the end of Naruto it should be clear the show was never about ninja
So by the definition that you gave isn't Kyoshin in someway a shinobi ?
There are similarities, yes.
Just want to point out “Honor” is subjective.
And cultural
So there old time secret agents?
OMG he just said it lol
Anyone know the song for that ending montage?
Strong and Strike from Naruto OST
12:08 how dare you backstab a respectful warrior
we were talking about for honor yeah nah I prefer the history lesson I was getting
Me as a shinobi main: *Enjoying the video and agreeing with pretty much everything with the help of some previous knowledge*
Also me: Why didn't you use super sprint in 6:08 to stop the point from being captured?!
I am all of the squee
Hello :3
hi raven
my favorite hero class in For Honor.. CIA agent
Shinobi: 殿方