Skaters on social media: You cannot judge me unless you can do what I can do. Same skaters: Judged by a panel of judges who cannot do what they can do.
A lot of skaters would have definitely given up. It's an inspiring story for sure. It helps that she is also very talented, and once she got her coaching situation straightened out and got used to her new body, she was able to improve.
3:00 - JUNIORS 7:48 - Ashley Wagner / oh boy, i just don't know what to say. We all know La La Land is not gonna top Moulin Rouge, and it looked unfinished, but what's worse is that I think Ashley completely lost the spark and fire that she had two seasons ago. This season her skating has looked boring and dull, it's almost like she has no motivation to skate or perform anymore. (21:05 - brief talk about watching Karen's skating in person) (32:24 - Selection of the MEN) (52:00 - roster of the Team Event at the Olympics) 58:36 - Bradie Tennell 1:00:03 - Starr Andrews / Indeed THANK GOD FOR STARR!! She was the star of the event!!! 1:01:22 - Gracie Gold 1:04:00 - General talk Men, judging and selection 1:14:30 - Nathan Chen 1:17:01 - Ross Miner 1:18:24 - Jason Brown 1:23:56 - Jimmy Ma 1:27:00 - Grant Hochstein PAIRS - 1:30:50 1:31:31 - Deanna Stellato 1:36:11 - Alexa and Chris 1:39:00 - Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran 1:41:12 - Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc 1:43:11 - Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier ICE DANCE - 1:44:32 1:44:32 - Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker 1:48:05 - Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue - So happy for them! Their FD is one of the best this season!!! 1:51:58 - Shibutanis / Im just sad and I feel so sorry to say that they have been throwing away points all season, the steps and twizzles(?!!!) keep losing levels throughout. Perhaps this loss can give them a push. (1:57:12 - *Pause* / L M F A O) 1:59:08 - Chock/Bates 1:59:56 - Parsons 2:02:22 - Moments of Nationals 2:06:04 - Fluff pieces on the legendary -Oksana- Pasha Grishuk
So glad to see the recap now posted! When the new video wasn't available this morning and I saw the Twitter update about the upload error, I felt more cheated than Ashley!
Hubbell/Donohue WON the Components for the Free Dance. And more importantly, they not only got ten "10's", but they also got "10's" from seven of the nine judges. And this panel was VERY Senior (8 of 9 Judges were ISU certified, and the entire Tech Panel was too; compared to, say, the women's event, where only 3 of 9 of the judges, and 2 of 3 of the Tech Panel were ISU). And they only got ONE 9.25 from one judge for transitions. Everything else was 9.50 or higher. So that REALLY bodes well for them moving forward in their careers. Compare that to Chock/Bates, who only got five "10's", and they were from only two of the nine judges. Meanwhile the Shibs got no "10's" at all for the Free. None. I think that's telling.
Johnathan - YOU'RE the highlight of this nationals!! Your commentary is knowledgable and insightful, you pose great questions and deliver it all with delghtful wit. Thank you for creating this amazing forum, Dave! Also really loved the larger panel from Skate America to really carry the conversation that you and Jonathan incite!! Regarding the podium - between the low scoring of Vincent and Ross' ultimate pass over...they needed Adam. His consistency is notable amongst the men and will be helpful in a team event long program with the high fall rate resulting from quads.
"I am only happy about my friends and I am not worries about.... What was your question?" Oksana Baiul's version of Mariah Carey saying "I don't know her......."
Yay! Waited for this all week, figuring it would be a bit late since Jonathan was there and Dave was sick, etc...going to settle in and hope my children can play peacefully together for a couple of hours!! Love!
Jonathan, you know I love you, no shade: but you can get a clip-on mic that works with a Mac or PC OR your phone (iPhone or otherwise) that you plug in, and clip it on your shirt collar. It’s cheap, it works, and u can carry it anywhere in a carry on bag like a pair of headphones. PLEASE I beg you, buy one. You’re going to be traveling a lot, so use a clip-on mic. It’s called the “Professional Grade Lavalier Lapel Microphone” on Amazon. 20 bucks.
Jason as the alternate was probably my biggest issue with the team selections. When will USFS disembark the Jason train? I saw no growth in the last 4 years compared to other skaters. I say this having been a big fan in 2014 but enough is enough.
Agreed. Loved him. But I haven’t seen any progression. I’m tired of him giving the same performance with the same happy face every time. Get mad and make improvements or hang ‘em up... as harsh as that is.
Anyone know the REAL reason why Hubbell/Donohue got a Spin called a Level 2? I looked down the list, and there were 8th place finishers getting Spins at level 4. What the HELL happened there? That almost cost them.
I hope Nathan will do both programs in the team event. He could water down to 2-3 quads and it would still be better than using Adam's quadless long. The ice dance scores have been so close that it would be appropriate to split the event between H/D and the Shibs. Regarding pairs... The twist scores were so inflated for everyone that in order to reward Knierim/Knierim for having the best twist/throws in the event (which they clearly do), they had to give big GOE for that quad twist no matter how it landed. Still, half the panel did deduct for the 2 foot. Denney/Frazier didn't help themselves with missed levels everywhere. They excel in lifts and still only managed one Level 4 lift the entire event. Likewise, Castelli/Tran were killed by doing a shaky twist on both days, especially in the LP, and multiple downgrades. Both of those teams should have been able to beat Cain/LeDuc because of C/L's weaknesses especially on pair elements, but they couldn't keep the problems limited to the jumps, and they got downgrades instead of underrotations. Stellato is a better skater than Kayne. Bartholomay isn't as good and pretty short, but I think they could have been 2nd in the SP. K/O's twist and throws are just too small and weak. But looking at those low international scores of S/B would make it terrifying to send them to Worlds. Even K/O don't have any decent international SP scores in this quadrennium. How would Alexa get to the "next level" of pairs by pairing her with someone who can't throw a twist and whose best assets are when he skates by himself? I've at least seen Chris do good jumps before (where is his confidence? He says he is over the injury now but he's still tentative. They are very good otherwise.)
Like you said, 7th at Worlds might be considered somewhat weak in ladies, but pretty strong in men. That's why it's important that the selection criteria not get SO specific, especially because every skating discipline is different and the fields at every event are different. Canada's selection criteria is similarly vague. Yet some fans want all the criteria weighted with made-up percentages so that the team is picked exclusively based on math formulas and doesn't allow for educated human judgement. I think you have to be careful with not allowing any leeway.
Yes, and weighted selection might mean you end up with a weaker athlete as judging and scores can vary from event to event. Like Bradie's Skate America bronze score was nearly 20 points higher than Wagner's bronze medal win. I know you can't always compare scores but you can compare potential.
Thank you for posting this. I would have been interested to hear more of Jonathan's comments about how the skaters looked in person. Sometimes JB would be poised to make an interesting comment and then Dave would interrupt, after which the discussion would take a different direction and Jonathan would never get the chance to finish his thought.
Ashley misses competing against Gracie. It seemed like she skated with more verve and fire when Gracie was nipping at her heels, fighting for World medals and National Titles.
I don't know what rock I've been under but I've only discovered this channel a few weeks ago. This is my first comment. Which patron saint of skating do I light a candle for to atone for my sins? #love #gearingupforthegames
I think Alexa is an incredible pair skater. I wouldn't want her paired with Danny, for several reasons. I'm not going to elaborate, but yeah. Alexa and Chris have potential if they can get his confidence back to a decent level because their pair elements are exceptional. "Everyone has their own reason for why no one likes skating" Lol so true, Jonathan, so true. And I'm amazed by people who follow skating closely without knowing the difference between the jumps.
I don't know why people constantly say "This is why people stop watching skating" People stopped watching skating because it stopped being on networks people could find. Even with my super duper cable package I can't watch the Olympic channel so half the events are lost to me. I think more parents will choose figure skating over gymnastics now for their children as the less "rapey" option for children that prefer a "prettier" sport. We also forget that the lack of talent we have coming up right now is directly related to the fiscal crash of 2008 where I'm sure many potentially talented skaters had to stop at the lower levels due to lack of funds. Though as a fan you have to ask how popular does figure skating need to be?
The TES in pairs was noticeably inflated all through the third and fourth groups. I wouldn't give a two footed quad twist +3 (even though it was amazing in the air), but I also wouldn't give sub-par triple twists +3s and +2s. This event didn't give a realistic depiction of how great/fine/weak twists score internationally. I thought Alexa & Chris's SP lead should have been bigger actually. I could have made a case for Deanna & Nate coming 2nd, mainly because they did a stronger twist and throw than Tarah & Danny. As for Adam, I don't think it's fair to compare him to skaters from the olden days who were put on Olympic teams based on body of work that included world medals and whatnot. All we can do is compare Adam to Ross (or Vincent to Ross). Both Adam and Vincent had substantially stronger international scores than Ross, who has struggled the past couple seasons.
I don't think S/B did a particularly good SP throw either, she was pitched forward and it lacked oomph. A little better than K/O's though. Their lift was stronger and the twist is better and cleaner but not so superior that they were going to get an even more inflated score. They may have been reluctant to put them in 2nd given how they have scored internationally their first two seasons.
Really loving this video. Well done, guys. The discussion breaking down singles selections was spot on in terms of issues raised. Kudos for being objective by taking TSL friend Brennan to task. Love her but fair point. Also HATE Chen's costumes. Very nice to look at, but it looks like no one shared the music with Wang before she made them. Could have just as easily been designs Evan rejected for all we know. I think these costumes detract from the programs.
I would be very grateful if you guys posted a video explaining the differences between the jumps! Or referred those of us who wish to learn to a good resource! Thanks for all the vids.
You guys are really underestimating the quality of Adam's body of work and his consistently hit programs this season. Ross may have been second, but if the PCS had been judged by international standards, it's quite possible Adam would have finished 2nd overall even with the mistakes. That's why I feel weird about any of these bubble decisions being based on nationals ranking since some of these skaters were receiving more inflation than others. The PCS for Ross was generous, even by nationals standards. For Wagner, it was ungenerous, both by national and international standards.
Great analysis. Thank you! Agree with what you said. If they have to bump someone, they should have selected Adam and Ross for Olympic team and send Vincent to 4 Continents and World and then give Jason the 1st alternative. In this case, Ross and Adam got their once in a life opportunity and Vincent will get the experiences.
I'm surprised USF didn't promote Wagner just for the publicity, especially since they had the wiggle-room to do it given the weakness of Chen. The rest of our team are absolute bores with zero personality - but on and off the ice.
She's not been doing well internationally. The US are looking for a new young lady to challenge the Russians. So they're sending two under 20s and then one nostalgic favorite
After watching the televised events and hearing so much commentary about under rotations, I wanted to check. Are there multiple technical callers at each event deciding whether elements are flagged for review? It seems like there should be at least 2-3 reviewers in this position since it was thought that quite a few under rotations were skipped or missed.
I thought I heard Tara mention the "technical caller" a couple times indicating just one person had this responsibility. I assumed this had to be wrong. Having just one person responsible for making a determination on under rotations is wrong. At least 3 people(from separate countries at international events) should have this responsibility to help minimize concerns of bias.
I actually really enjoyed this segment and although quite long, was in line with my own thoughts. You both seem really open and honest, so I pose a question: Do you think Mariah Bell took a fall on the axle, to set Ashley up for at least securing a bronze and a trip to the Olympics. My personal opinion it that she did, as they both share the same coach, and up until that little mishap, she was on her way to a clean skate.
I don't know where Ashley is going to be in media bc there's already diva-like, yappy, happy, blonde, talkative Caucasian girl who has an Olympic Gold Medal like Tara except Tara is sideways more that she could be more interesting (to the media/public, not to the skating fans). Same can be said to Adam too. There's Johnny already, so where can he go? They can't do the same business.
Also I was rewatching these nationals and how the hell did Vincent Zhou with all his cheated/under jumps get to go over Ross Miner whose Queen program gave me goose bumps. Unacceptable
I think Christine likes the idea that the judging is rigged. Honestly I'm not sure why Ashley thought her PCS should be higher with only one data point from one completed competition this season.
She seemed to be implying that Bradie had somehow taken Ashley's spot, and ignoring the fact that it came down to Ashley vs Karen? I was amused when she implied that "Russian jumping beans" are beating out "all-around skaters" like Ashley. I mean... are we going to ignore the fact that Ashley has mediocre spins and does a million crossovers? I was really hoping Ashley would nab that third spot, but with some of the reactions, you'd think she skated like Carolina Kostner.
How about interviewing some of the skaters you mentioned in this show-- Pasha Grishuk, Nick LaRoche-- I liked their skating and would love to hear what they've been up to and their thoughts on the current competitive skaters. Or interview Starr Andrews and her coaches, Alysa Liu and her dad-- they would probably like some media attention since everyone's focusing on the Olympians. Thanks!
Lmao what was that Easter egg at the end of the video 🙀 omg I died laughing, you can’t tell me that Pasha wasn’t Oksana in glasses 😆😆omg this was awesome 💀🤣
"If Ross places 12th and Adam places 8th, does that difference matter?" YES, it does. This the Olympics. You don't purposely try for weaker results. There are only 3 medals, so obviously the vast majority of competitors at the Olympics aren't going to end up in the medals, but that doesn't mean the rest of the placements are meaningless and that you should throw up your hands and say who cares and not bother trying to get your best results.
Liana -Stefanelli I totally agree, but I think they were more referring to “does it matter to the USFS Fed”. At least that’s what I picked up from the context.
agreed. comparing nancy's or other skaters' results seems irrelevant. nancy won those medals in a different skating era when the USA was dominant in skating. the thing that remains relevant across time is that nancy and adam are the best choices in the USA. (but agreed with johnathan's comments - sorry for ross, and there was no clean decision)
completely agreed on every front about Ashley. The short program seemed uninspired, she completely seemed complacent after the long program where note, she did make a couple major mistakes. Also true she wasn’t fighting for it in the practices. I also agree it’s outrageous how she stole the headlines, Mirai deserved her light of day - her dedication and showing here was in every way inspiring, and frankly, a stark contrast from Ashley’s.
Ting Cui was third and juniors and selected for the Junior Worlds and scored almost 120 in the FS. Would like to know your thoughts on her since you discussed the top 2 juniors
Nathan can EASILY do a watered-down LP for the team event, with 2-3 quads, and NOT peak at the Team Event. I mean, Dave, I know you hate it, but Nathan and Raf are totally capable of switching his jumps on the fly. And he does fine. He did it here at Nats. That would allow them to use Nathan for SP and LP at Team Event and allow Shibs for short and Hubbell and Donohue for Free Dance. That’s the solution.
I think they will put Bradie for both segments and allow two dance teams and two men a chance to medal. They have had the best results all season so deserve the chance more. I think it makes sense to allow athletes who qualify for the GPF the chance over the 3 ladies.
Natasha Estrada I agree with this largely and think having Bradie skate both makes the most sense, but Dave said in the video that they were informed that the plan is to have Bradie do the short and Mirai do the long. Not sure that’s the wisest strategy.
The only thing I can think of is that it is a gift to Mirai for 2014 AND it might seem a little on the nose to offer a medal potential position to Adam who bombed at Nationals. And NBC loves to show the ladies skating.
I was disappointed how little you guys talked about the medalists and how it was all about Ashley. I thought Mirai created a beautiful moment and strong emotion in her long program, and I don't find her program empty compared to her competitors. Whose program this year would you say is significantly better choreographed? Kostner's and Osmond's short, but who else has any actually noteworthy choreography? Of all the component scores I thought Mirai's were actually the most unfair. The "performance" portion of the component marks to me should go to the skater who creates the moment, not the generally more artistic skater. For example, in SLC, Sarah Hughes should have gotten a higher "performance" component than Michelle, even though Michelle was the more artistic skater overall, because Sarah owned that night. So I would have given Mirai the highest "performance" marks for the free skate. Her skating skills are also pretty good. She's faster than Ashley, has better extension and flexibility throughout her program, and all of her spin positions are prettier. Their edges are comparable (both have been skating a long time and it shows to some extent). She's way more mature and nuanced than Bradie. Karen actually has the nicest skating skills of this crop of US ladies IMO. Bradie should have been hit for composition with her Disney program, and the other three to me have comparable composition and interpretation of the music (mature enough theme, having an actual theme with packaging, costume, etc appropriate, fairly complex and sophisticated choreography). Ashley makes more faces than Mirai, but I don't buy it. She doesn't really make me feel anything. Karen is probably the most expressive in a way that seems actually genuine. Ashley to me feels like she's pulling faces so she can check off a checkbox of "feeling the music," and Karen actually does feel her music.
I have a question regarding Adam's 'fake quad lutz' and it's not meant to be snarky. When you say fake, do you mean he's never been able to complete the jump correctly and just takes the fall/risk in order to get the points? Or is the technique incorrect or something like that. Thanks for such a comprehensive video! I could not be more excited for Mirai and Hubbell and Donohue! Finally, they've managed to get to win. I wonder how many points ahead they would have scored had they not lost the levels. (Sidenote: those dance judges were seemingly taking no notice of technique with most of the teams and handing out level 4's like candy.)
It's sad when audience reaction sometimes seems to influence the scores because when you're there, you realize how many elderly people who may or may not know which jump is which are in the audience. No offense, elderly people, I know some young people don't know which jump is which either.
In all honesty, I am guilty of not being able to tell the jumps (besides axels) apart. Is there any way to get this besides having learned how to do them? Elderly or not, this will not happen before the Olympics start!
I was on the ice like 3 times in my life and I can tell the jumps apart. It's possible to learn. You just need to watch some youtube videos that explain the differences and that watch and learn, watch and learn.
I don't think now being able to identify the jumps means someone isn't a serious fan. Even the commentators sometimes get it wrong. The easiest one to identify is the axel because it is a forward takeoff. For all of them, it isn't intuitive; you have to learn the different entries, which is usually enough to identify the jump.
I'm curious what they would choose for her too. She's never been a good SP skater and whether she chose an old program or a new one, it probably would have been on the same level as Hip Hip. Of anything she could have done, I think Hip Hip was fine, at least she has fun while she performs it.
Amber Brennan For her final season -- whenever that may be -- she needs to skate to Sunset Boulevard (Barbara Streisand)... She is the Norma Desmond of ice skating.
TheSkatingLesson I want to see how she’d be skating to a fiesty sexy tango. I know she already skated to tango jalousie tho, but something sexier than that lol
I will never have words for Ross not being selected as first alternate. There are no words, there are no excuses. It is flat-out wrong and there is nowhere for the USFSA to hide on this BS decision.
You gave Alexa & Chris some well deserved compliments and didn't make fun of her for believing in god, this is progress. Although you did get another dig in about them being married and doing a romantic program. They've been an off-ice couple throughout the whole partnership, so it really doesn't matter that they're married. It's the same thing. Let them be. I'd rather a married team do a romantic program than one who doesn't give each other the time of day off the ice anyway.
1992 Paul vs Mark was a split decision, and the the judge who tied both men gave paul 1 tenth of a point higher than mark in presentation. That was the difference. 4-4-1, but REALLY, as you know just like with Nancy and Oksana, 5-4.
I have so many feelings on the men's event. I totally think they would've put Vincent above Ross, if they knew Jason and Adam were going to bomb/they skated before them (and I agree that they were prepping for Nathan/Adam/Jason on the podium). I also think Adam was going no matter what because, besides Nathan, he has been the strongest man. If anything, I think they would've put Ross, Adam, Nathan, and gave Vincent worlds, especially since, as Jonathan said, it doesn't really matter how they do at Oly because spots aren't up for grabs like they are at Worlds (and Nathan is the important one, and the only medal threat). I feel gutted for Ross, but it was definitely a hard decision and I think skate order determined a lot. It was ballsy getting rid of the silver medalist, and the alternate list was SO shady.
Unless Ross won the National title, there was no way he was going to the Olympics. I think the judges placed Ross above Vincent so they could get rid of Vincent for one of Adam/Jason if necessary. Ross was never going and Vincent was set up to be another sacrificial lamb. It never occurred to the powers that be that both Adam and Jason would do so badly in their freeskate and place behind Vincent. But after Adam and Jason both bombed, it became clear that both could not be put on the team. Thus Ross was yanked and Adam named to the team. I'm glad for Vincent. I would much rather he be on the team than Jason. Seriously, pretty is as pretty does. Men's figure skating requires quads. Those without any do not belong on the US Olympic team.
I theorize that singles skaters who bomb at the pre-Olympics worlds (and cost us a spot) tend to get put down and not make Olympics. Ross Miner follows Alissa Czisney and Tonia Kwaitkowski. FWIW, I think it does sound better to have a finisher in the top 10 (likely Adam) vs. someone who might not even make top 15 (Ross).
Can we discuss the selection committee naming Max Aaron as 3rd Alternate after a 9th place overall and 10th in the long finish???? USFSA stop trying to make Fetch happen!!
Like it or not, he has quads and a GP medal this season. It would make more sense to send him than someone who has never landed a quad and has a much weaker international resume.
Dave and Jonathan I love you both. I'm not sure who I like more. Aside from the competition, what do you think of NBCs complete lack of recognition of Michelle Kwan? They showed Tara watching her own Olympic performance twice for the 20 year anniversary, when in fact it was actually the 20 year anniversary of Michelle's phenomenal performance at the Philadelphia Nationals. In addition, they showed Rudy winning in San Jose in '96 but no mention of the first of Michelle's 9 national titles. Of course this wasn't the first time they have completely failed to mention Michelle. They pretend as if she never existed. I find it to be a complete disservice to the sport as a whole, and of course to Kwan who is undeniably the most decorated and beloved American skater. I mean they show clips of Rachel Flatt for Gods sake...
It could be because Rudy is a San Jose native. And I don't think anyone really keeps track of anniversaries of National titles. The anniversary of Olympic titles sometimes gets a mention though. Plus, Tara is a commentator for the event, so I've course they're going to make a big deal out of her.
Hanna, I understand all of that, but NBC won't even ever show a picture of her. Instead the likes of Rachel Flatt and Alissa Cziny are shown. I mean no offense to either of them and their accomplishments, but these women certainly do not have the resume or the star power that Kwan has. Most of the general public probably doesn't even know who they are.
You talked about sending Todd to the Olympics because of his World Medal, and Nancy being sent to the Olympics because of her Olympic Medal, and World medals. Would you have sent Sasha to the 2010 Olympics, even though she was 4th at Nationals (she did have an Olympic medal, and World medals)?
Jonathan you know i still love you dearly but i can't deal right now with you liking Nathan's unfitting abominations of a costume. I need time to process.
I can agree with leaving Ross off the Olympic team, but he should absolutely have been given a World's spot. Olympic-year Worlds with 3 men's spots is as low stakes a World's as you can get, and it would help combat viewer anger, and anger from skaters--not sending Ross to Olympics OR Worlds OR even making him first alternate is not just a slap in his face, but it's a slap in the face to all the senior US men who aren't in the group of Nathan, Adam, Jason, and Vincent. It says something about USFS's planning skills that they wouldn't do something that poses so minimal disadvantage but would likely help them in the long run (by alienating fewer viewers and athletes). I don't think it would be any huge burden for Adam to end his season at the Olympics instead of going on to Worlds.
Not all viewers are angry though. No matter who they picked, there would have been a faction of people who were upset. Adam has a significantly better scoring history than Ross in the past few years, including at Worlds. Adam has top 10 Worlds finishes on his resume, Ross doesn't. They could have kept Vincent out of Worlds, but he has also outscored Ross by quite a bit in the past year. Basically, Ross had plenty of opportunities to show his competitiveness internationally, not just this year, but in all recent years, and he didn't. I feel for him, but he didn't put himself in a good position heading into Nationals. All of the skaters were aware of the selection criteria. Perhaps they could have made him 1st alternate for Worlds, but I can understand the reasoning for picking Jason.
Skaters on social media: You cannot judge me unless you can do what I can do.
Same skaters: Judged by a panel of judges who cannot do what they can do.
I admire the guts it took for Mirai to overcome being left off in 2014. Her story is inspiring.
A lot of skaters would have definitely given up. It's an inspiring story for sure. It helps that she is also very talented, and once she got her coaching situation straightened out and got used to her new body, she was able to improve.
2 hours!!! See you later for comments! I need time to process!
Michael Buckley was
3:00 - JUNIORS
7:48 - Ashley Wagner / oh boy, i just don't know what to say. We all know La La Land is not gonna top Moulin Rouge, and it looked unfinished, but what's worse is that I think Ashley completely lost the spark and fire that she had two seasons ago. This season her skating has looked boring and dull, it's almost like she has no motivation to skate or perform anymore.
(21:05 - brief talk about watching Karen's skating in person)
(32:24 - Selection of the MEN)
(52:00 - roster of the Team Event at the Olympics)
58:36 - Bradie Tennell
1:00:03 - Starr Andrews / Indeed THANK GOD FOR STARR!! She was the star of the event!!!
1:01:22 - Gracie Gold
1:04:00 - General talk
Men, judging and selection
1:14:30 - Nathan Chen
1:17:01 - Ross Miner
1:18:24 - Jason Brown
1:23:56 - Jimmy Ma
1:27:00 - Grant Hochstein
PAIRS - 1:30:50
1:31:31 - Deanna Stellato
1:36:11 - Alexa and Chris
1:39:00 - Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran
1:41:12 - Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc
1:43:11 - Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier
ICE DANCE - 1:44:32
1:44:32 - Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker
1:48:05 - Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue - So happy for them! Their FD is one of the best this season!!!
1:51:58 - Shibutanis / Im just sad and I feel so sorry to say that they have been throwing away points all season, the steps and twizzles(?!!!) keep losing levels throughout. Perhaps this loss can give them a push.
(1:57:12 - *Pause* / L M F A O)
1:59:08 - Chock/Bates
1:59:56 - Parsons
2:02:22 - Moments of Nationals
2:06:04 - Fluff pieces on the legendary -Oksana- Pasha Grishuk
Nolan Go u
Omg your amazing
thank you!
THANK YOUUU!!!
Finally! I’ve been waiting all week for this! Yay!!
So glad to see the recap now posted! When the new video wasn't available this morning and I saw the Twitter update about the upload error, I felt more cheated than Ashley!
I admit to giving this video a thumbs up before even watching it.
Thanks guys! Ive been waiting for your video so I can listen while I clean my house!
The end of this video made my day! I haven`t laughed so much in awhile, and I haven`t seen that fluff piece since the first airing. thank-you Dave!
I have been waiting for this ..Can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about our nationals..
About time :) I was waiting for this all week. Thank you.
So excited for this!
OMG so excited all week waiting for this Yay!
Ily you both💙❤️💜💚 I saw people commentating to your joke on Facebook and people are crazy lolol!
Hubbell/Donohue WON the Components for the Free Dance. And more importantly, they not only got ten "10's", but they also got "10's" from seven of the nine judges. And this panel was VERY Senior (8 of 9 Judges were ISU certified, and the entire Tech Panel was too; compared to, say, the women's event, where only 3 of 9 of the judges, and 2 of 3 of the Tech Panel were ISU). And they only got ONE 9.25 from one judge for transitions. Everything else was 9.50 or higher. So that REALLY bodes well for them moving forward in their careers. Compare that to Chock/Bates, who only got five "10's", and they were from only two of the nine judges. Meanwhile the Shibs got no "10's" at all for the Free. None. I think that's telling.
Johnathan - YOU'RE the highlight of this nationals!! Your commentary is knowledgable and insightful, you pose great questions and deliver it all with delghtful wit. Thank you for creating this amazing forum, Dave! Also really loved the larger panel from Skate America to really carry the conversation that you and Jonathan incite!!
Regarding the podium - between the low scoring of Vincent and Ross' ultimate pass over...they needed Adam. His consistency is notable amongst the men and will be helpful in a team event long program with the high fall rate resulting from quads.
Jonathan and Dave suit each other so perfectly in this format.
I just found out that Jonathan is an opera singer.
"She's great at spinning" ----interruption --'In the MEDIA' - ha ha ha - my thoughts exactly.
Have been waiting for you for days!
Have been waiting for your video on US nationals badly. Thanks!
This just made my day!
"I am only happy about my friends and I am not worries about.... What was your question?" Oksana Baiul's version of Mariah Carey saying "I don't know her......."
I appreciated this. You guys were fair and reasonable about Ashley and Dave held back his snark. I will be tuning in again.
"program with smoke breaks," you guys are the best
Yay! Waited for this all week, figuring it would be a bit late since Jonathan was there and Dave was sick, etc...going to settle in and hope my children can play peacefully together for a couple of hours!! Love!
Oh, My. God. More.Than. Ever. PERFECT!!!
Been waiting for this vid lol. :D
Oh thank god. I need this.
Jonathan, you know I love you, no shade: but you can get a clip-on mic that works with a Mac or PC OR your phone (iPhone or otherwise) that you plug in, and clip it on your shirt collar. It’s cheap, it works, and u can carry it anywhere in a carry on bag like a pair of headphones. PLEASE I beg you, buy one. You’re going to be traveling a lot, so use a clip-on mic. It’s called the “Professional Grade Lavalier Lapel Microphone” on Amazon. 20 bucks.
I second that!
donate one. LOL
The problem isn't just the mic but that they aren't recording themselves separately and editing it together.
Jason as the alternate was probably my biggest issue with the team selections. When will USFS disembark the Jason train? I saw no growth in the last 4 years compared to other skaters. I say this having been a big fan in 2014 but enough is enough.
Agreed. Loved him. But I haven’t seen any progression. I’m tired of him giving the same performance with the same happy face every time. Get mad and make improvements or hang ‘em up... as harsh as that is.
Thought I was alone in this opinion
There’s more of us than I thought...
the constant smiling is creepy too, no one is happy all the time, sorry
Kat's POV I completely agree.
Love you guys
smiled like a loon when i saw this uploaded!
Anyone know the REAL reason why Hubbell/Donohue got a Spin called a Level 2? I looked down the list, and there were 8th place finishers getting Spins at level 4. What the HELL happened there? That almost cost them.
I hope Nathan will do both programs in the team event. He could water down to 2-3 quads and it would still be better than using Adam's quadless long. The ice dance scores have been so close that it would be appropriate to split the event between H/D and the Shibs. Regarding pairs... The
twist scores were so inflated for everyone that in order to reward Knierim/Knierim for having the best twist/throws in the event (which they clearly do), they had to give big GOE for that quad twist no matter how it landed. Still, half the panel did deduct for the 2 foot. Denney/Frazier didn't help themselves with missed levels everywhere. They excel in lifts and still only managed one Level 4 lift the entire event. Likewise, Castelli/Tran were killed by doing a shaky twist on both days, especially in the LP, and multiple downgrades. Both of those teams should have been able to beat Cain/LeDuc because of C/L's weaknesses especially on pair elements, but they couldn't keep the problems limited to the jumps, and they got downgrades instead of underrotations.
Stellato is a better skater than Kayne. Bartholomay isn't as good and pretty short, but I think they could have been 2nd in the SP. K/O's twist and throws are just too small and weak. But looking at those low international scores of S/B would make it terrifying to send them to Worlds. Even K/O don't have any decent international SP scores in this quadrennium. How would Alexa get to the "next level" of pairs by pairing her with someone who can't throw a twist and whose best assets are when he skates by himself? I've at least seen Chris do good jumps before (where is his confidence? He says he is over the injury now but he's still tentative. They are very good otherwise.)
WHOA 2 HOURS CANT WAIT
“You’re tricking the person when they finish second.” Yep. I agree. Very shady business going on.
Like you said, 7th at Worlds might be considered somewhat weak in ladies, but pretty strong in men. That's why it's important that the selection criteria not get SO specific, especially because every skating discipline is different and the fields at every event are different. Canada's selection criteria is similarly vague. Yet some fans want all the criteria weighted with made-up percentages so that the team is picked exclusively based on math formulas and doesn't allow for educated human judgement. I think you have to be careful with not allowing any leeway.
Yes, and weighted selection might mean you end up with a weaker athlete as judging and scores can vary from event to event. Like Bradie's Skate America bronze score was nearly 20 points higher than Wagner's bronze medal win. I know you can't always compare scores but you can compare potential.
i would rather take a chance on mirai's triple axel knowing you dont have anything to lose since the u.s. can't win gold or silver
Thank you for posting this. I would have been interested to hear more of Jonathan's comments about how the skaters looked in person. Sometimes JB would be poised to make an interesting comment and then Dave would interrupt, after which the discussion would take a different direction and Jonathan would never get the chance to finish his thought.
Ashley misses competing against Gracie. It seemed like she skated with more verve and fire when Gracie was nipping at her heels, fighting for World medals and National Titles.
OMFG at that Pasha fluff piece.
I don't know what rock I've been under but I've only discovered this channel a few weeks ago. This is my first comment. Which patron saint of skating do I light a candle for to atone for my sins? #love #gearingupforthegames
I think Alexa is an incredible pair skater. I wouldn't want her paired with Danny, for several reasons. I'm not going to elaborate, but yeah. Alexa and Chris have potential if they can get his confidence back to a decent level because their pair elements are exceptional.
"Everyone has their own reason for why no one likes skating" Lol so true, Jonathan, so true. And I'm amazed by people who follow skating closely without knowing the difference between the jumps.
Ashley and Mirai always bring the drama at Nationals. That picture of them embracing next to the big canisters of dog bones was surreal.
I don't know why people constantly say "This is why people stop watching skating" People stopped watching skating because it stopped being on networks people could find. Even with my super duper cable package I can't watch the Olympic channel so half the events are lost to me.
I think more parents will choose figure skating over gymnastics now for their children as the less "rapey" option for children that prefer a "prettier" sport. We also forget that the lack of talent we have coming up right now is directly related to the fiscal crash of 2008 where I'm sure many potentially talented skaters had to stop at the lower levels due to lack of funds.
Though as a fan you have to ask how popular does figure skating need to be?
The TES in pairs was noticeably inflated all through the third and fourth groups. I wouldn't give a two footed quad twist +3 (even though it was amazing in the air), but I also wouldn't give sub-par triple twists +3s and +2s. This event didn't give a realistic depiction of how great/fine/weak twists score internationally. I thought Alexa & Chris's SP lead should have been bigger actually. I could have made a case for Deanna & Nate coming 2nd, mainly because they did a stronger twist and throw than Tarah & Danny.
As for Adam, I don't think it's fair to compare him to skaters from the olden days who were put on Olympic teams based on body of work that included world medals and whatnot. All we can do is compare Adam to Ross (or Vincent to Ross). Both Adam and Vincent had substantially stronger international scores than Ross, who has struggled the past couple seasons.
I don't think S/B did a particularly good SP throw either, she was pitched forward and it lacked oomph. A little better than K/O's though. Their lift was stronger and the twist is better and cleaner but not so superior that they were going to get an even more inflated score. They may have been reluctant to put them in 2nd given how they have scored internationally their first two seasons.
Had the pleasure of seeing Mr Beyer in person at the rink and he is a tall drink of water! Was too shy to say hi tho ;)
Is there an interview with the Flag People coming up?!
Really loving this video. Well done, guys. The discussion breaking down singles selections was spot on in terms of issues raised. Kudos for being objective by taking TSL friend Brennan to task. Love her but fair point. Also HATE Chen's costumes. Very nice to look at, but it looks like no one shared the music with Wang before she made them. Could have just as easily been designs Evan rejected for all we know. I think these costumes detract from the programs.
Love seeing your faces!!
I would be very grateful if you guys posted a video explaining the differences between the jumps! Or referred those of us who wish to learn to a good resource! Thanks for all the vids.
can you guys just spill the Gracie GOld tea already...
You guys are really underestimating the quality of Adam's body of work and his consistently hit programs this season. Ross may have been second, but if the PCS had been judged by international standards, it's quite possible Adam would have finished 2nd overall even with the mistakes. That's why I feel weird about any of these bubble decisions being based on nationals ranking since some of these skaters were receiving more inflation than others. The PCS for Ross was generous, even by nationals standards. For Wagner, it was ungenerous, both by national and international standards.
Great analysis. Thank you! Agree with what you said. If they have to bump someone, they should have selected Adam and Ross for Olympic team and send Vincent to 4 Continents and World and then give Jason the 1st alternative. In this case, Ross and Adam got their once in a life opportunity and Vincent will get the experiences.
I'm surprised USF didn't promote Wagner just for the publicity, especially since they had the wiggle-room to do it given the weakness of Chen. The rest of our team are absolute bores with zero personality - but on and off the ice.
She's not been doing well internationally. The US are looking for a new young lady to challenge the Russians. So they're sending two under 20s and then one nostalgic favorite
The Frank/Gracie situation is interesting because Frank also gave his Worlds jacket away to the receptionist at the rink.
@tsl Just FYI it is impossible to play your review of Russian Nationals from Russia... video is blocked
After watching the televised events and hearing so much commentary about under rotations, I wanted to check. Are there multiple technical callers at each event deciding whether elements are flagged for review? It seems like there should be at least 2-3 reviewers in this position since it was thought that quite a few under rotations were skipped or missed.
I thought I heard Tara mention the "technical caller" a couple times indicating just one person had this responsibility. I assumed this had to be wrong. Having just one person responsible for making a determination on under rotations is wrong. At least 3 people(from separate countries at international events) should have this responsibility to help minimize concerns of bias.
The intro for this podcast is EVerything!!!!!
I actually really enjoyed this segment and although quite long, was in line with my own thoughts. You both seem really open and honest, so I pose a question: Do you think Mariah Bell took a fall on the axle, to set Ashley up for at least securing a bronze and a trip to the Olympics. My personal opinion it that she did, as they both share the same coach, and up until that little mishap, she was on her way to a clean skate.
I don't know where Ashley is going to be in media bc there's already diva-like, yappy, happy, blonde, talkative Caucasian girl who has an Olympic Gold Medal like Tara except Tara is sideways more that she could be more interesting (to the media/public, not to the skating fans). Same can be said to Adam too. There's Johnny already, so where can he go? They can't do the same business.
Origami S Agreed although I would say that I would not-so-secretly be elated if Ashley and Adam REPLACED Tara and Johnny. 😏
Also I was rewatching these nationals and how the hell did Vincent Zhou with all his cheated/under jumps get to go over Ross Miner whose Queen program gave me goose bumps. Unacceptable
I too was confused about Christine column. She seems to be the only one who thinks that.
I was like is she friends with Ashely's mother? Not very objective but fair point about the judging being bullshit, inflation of marks.
I think Christine likes the idea that the judging is rigged. Honestly I'm not sure why Ashley thought her PCS should be higher with only one data point from one completed competition this season.
She said in the past that Ashley's quotes will be in textbook in the future, insisted she really believes that.
Completely agree. I said “wow” out loud after reading it. 🙄
She seemed to be implying that Bradie had somehow taken Ashley's spot, and ignoring the fact that it came down to Ashley vs Karen? I was amused when she implied that "Russian jumping beans" are beating out "all-around skaters" like Ashley. I mean... are we going to ignore the fact that Ashley has mediocre spins and does a million crossovers? I was really hoping Ashley would nab that third spot, but with some of the reactions, you'd think she skated like Carolina Kostner.
will there be a canadian nationals preview
How about interviewing some of the skaters you mentioned in this show-- Pasha Grishuk, Nick LaRoche-- I liked their skating and would love to hear what they've been up to and their thoughts on the current competitive skaters. Or interview Starr Andrews and her coaches, Alysa Liu and her dad-- they would probably like some media attention since everyone's focusing on the Olympians. Thanks!
Lmao what was that Easter egg at the end of the video 🙀 omg I died laughing, you can’t tell me that Pasha wasn’t Oksana in glasses 😆😆omg this was awesome 💀🤣
Opera and Figure Skating, both loves that need more youthfull audiences. #Oldladyatheart
Have An Ice Day I thought it was just me!
"If Ross places 12th and Adam places 8th, does that difference matter?" YES, it does. This the Olympics. You don't purposely try for weaker results. There are only 3 medals, so obviously the vast majority of competitors at the Olympics aren't going to end up in the medals, but that doesn't mean the rest of the placements are meaningless and that you should throw up your hands and say who cares and not bother trying to get your best results.
Liana -Stefanelli I totally agree, but I think they were more referring to “does it matter to the USFS Fed”. At least that’s what I picked up from the context.
agreed. comparing nancy's or other skaters' results seems irrelevant. nancy won those medals in a different skating era when the USA was dominant in skating. the thing that remains relevant across time is that nancy and adam are the best choices in the USA. (but agreed with johnathan's comments - sorry for ross, and there was no clean decision)
Love the Parsons & Parsons music. I wish more skaters would skate to South American music :)
where can we watch Pooja's programs?
nvm found it~
czcams.com/video/uymbP8yAyR8/video.html
czcams.com/video/RadTGfgM2OM/video.html
Someone put her nationals free skate on youtube: czcams.com/video/RadTGfgM2OM/video.html
Love the recap! Did I miss your comments about Mariah? I wanted to hear how she came off in person and your sense of her future.
completely agreed on every front about Ashley. The short program seemed uninspired, she completely seemed complacent after the long program where note, she did make a couple major mistakes. Also true she wasn’t fighting for it in the practices. I also agree it’s outrageous how she stole the headlines, Mirai deserved her light of day - her dedication and showing here was in every way inspiring, and frankly, a stark contrast from Ashley’s.
Dear Skating Lesson, please come back. You're missed. :)
Ting Cui was third and juniors and selected for the Junior Worlds and scored almost 120 in the FS. Would like to know your thoughts on her since you discussed the top 2 juniors
Angelica Reilly a great talent!
Wait what's the Gracie Gold story?
I was really wondering why is it talking you guys so long!!! Thank you❤️
Nathan can EASILY do a watered-down LP for the team event, with 2-3 quads, and NOT peak at the Team Event. I mean, Dave, I know you hate it, but Nathan and Raf are totally capable of switching his jumps on the fly. And he does fine. He did it here at Nats. That would allow them to use Nathan for SP and LP at Team Event and allow Shibs for short and Hubbell and Donohue for Free Dance. That’s the solution.
I think they will put Bradie for both segments and allow two dance teams and two men a chance to medal. They have had the best results all season so deserve the chance more. I think it makes sense to allow athletes who qualify for the GPF the chance over the 3 ladies.
Natasha Estrada I agree with this largely and think having Bradie skate both makes the most sense, but Dave said in the video that they were informed that the plan is to have Bradie do the short and Mirai do the long. Not sure that’s the wisest strategy.
The only thing I can think of is that it is a gift to Mirai for 2014 AND it might seem a little on the nose to offer a medal potential position to Adam who bombed at Nationals. And NBC loves to show the ladies skating.
Sounds like a great plan. Hope it works out that way.
I was disappointed how little you guys talked about the medalists and how it was all about Ashley. I thought Mirai created a beautiful moment and strong emotion in her long program, and I don't find her program empty compared to her competitors. Whose program this year would you say is significantly better choreographed? Kostner's and Osmond's short, but who else has any actually noteworthy choreography? Of all the component scores I thought Mirai's were actually the most unfair. The "performance" portion of the component marks to me should go to the skater who creates the moment, not the generally more artistic skater. For example, in SLC, Sarah Hughes should have gotten a higher "performance" component than Michelle, even though Michelle was the more artistic skater overall, because Sarah owned that night. So I would have given Mirai the highest "performance" marks for the free skate. Her skating skills are also pretty good. She's faster than Ashley, has better extension and flexibility throughout her program, and all of her spin positions are prettier. Their edges are comparable (both have been skating a long time and it shows to some extent). She's way more mature and nuanced than Bradie. Karen actually has the nicest skating skills of this crop of US ladies IMO. Bradie should have been hit for composition with her Disney program, and the other three to me have comparable composition and interpretation of the music (mature enough theme, having an actual theme with packaging, costume, etc appropriate, fairly complex and sophisticated choreography). Ashley makes more faces than Mirai, but I don't buy it. She doesn't really make me feel anything. Karen is probably the most expressive in a way that seems actually genuine. Ashley to me feels like she's pulling faces so she can check off a checkbox of "feeling the music," and Karen actually does feel her music.
I have a question regarding Adam's 'fake quad lutz' and it's not meant to be snarky. When you say fake, do you mean he's never been able to complete the jump correctly and just takes the fall/risk in order to get the points? Or is the technique incorrect or something like that. Thanks for such a comprehensive video! I could not be more excited for Mirai and Hubbell and Donohue! Finally, they've managed to get to win. I wonder how many points ahead they would have scored had they not lost the levels. (Sidenote: those dance judges were seemingly taking no notice of technique with most of the teams and handing out level 4's like candy.)
Nicole Dunn I mean he has never been able to rotate it and has been falling on it a lot lately.
Since these videos aren’t edited, can you please put in time stamps !?!
Daphnie Starr they ARE...
That’s nice that Rohene approached you to apologize ☺️
It's sad when audience reaction sometimes seems to influence the scores because when you're there, you realize how many elderly people who may or may not know which jump is which are in the audience. No offense, elderly people, I know some young people don't know which jump is which either.
In all honesty, I am guilty of not being able to tell the jumps (besides axels) apart. Is there any way to get this besides having learned how to do them? Elderly or not, this will not happen before the Olympics start!
I was on the ice like 3 times in my life and I can tell the jumps apart. It's possible to learn. You just need to watch some youtube videos that explain the differences and that watch and learn, watch and learn.
I would think the elderly would have been watching this sport far longer than us and would know how to differentiate between the jumps..... yes?
I don't think now being able to identify the jumps means someone isn't a serious fan. Even the commentators sometimes get it wrong. The easiest one to identify is the axel because it is a forward takeoff. For all of them, it isn't intuitive; you have to learn the different entries, which is usually enough to identify the jump.
Pooja doesnt have the international minimum because she hadn’t be sent out this year.
there are quite a few challenger trophies between now and junior worlds that they could send Pooja to to get her minima...
usfsa wanting adam and jason on the team + the skating order = why the silver was gifted to ross over vincent
u.s. championships is not olympic trials
I love the Charlie Tickner reference.......
If you were to choose an olympic short for Ashley what do you think would suit her best/be the best vehicle for this season?
I'm curious what they would choose for her too. She's never been a good SP skater and whether she chose an old program or a new one, it probably would have been on the same level as Hip Hip. Of anything she could have done, I think Hip Hip was fine, at least she has fun while she performs it.
I really liked the idea Sandra Bezic had about the Heart song ‘Crazy on You’ or something/remix of Pat Benetar.
Amber Brennan For her final season -- whenever that may be -- she needs to skate to Sunset Boulevard (Barbara Streisand)... She is the Norma Desmond of ice skating.
TheSkatingLesson I want to see how she’d be skating to a fiesty sexy tango. I know she already skated to tango jalousie tho, but something sexier than that lol
Is Jonathan filming from a toilet again, it sounds like a bathroom echo.
Liana -Stefanelli i was in a dining room! I like to keep you guessing! Ha
Jonathan Beyer please get a microphone or do smth we cant hear you!!!
Well if he does film from the "throne room" the acoustics might be better.
I love how the intro is young and the restless themed
I will never have words for Ross not being selected as first alternate. There are no words, there are no excuses. It is flat-out wrong and there is nowhere for the USFSA to hide on this BS decision.
You gave Alexa & Chris some well deserved compliments and didn't make fun of her for believing in god, this is progress. Although you did get another dig in about them being married and doing a romantic program. They've been an off-ice couple throughout the whole partnership, so it really doesn't matter that they're married. It's the same thing. Let them be. I'd rather a married team do a romantic program than one who doesn't give each other the time of day off the ice anyway.
1992 Paul vs Mark was a split decision, and the the judge who tied both men gave paul 1 tenth of a point higher than mark in presentation. That was the difference. 4-4-1, but REALLY, as you know just like with Nancy and Oksana, 5-4.
I have so many feelings on the men's event. I totally think they would've put Vincent above Ross, if they knew Jason and Adam were going to bomb/they skated before them (and I agree that they were prepping for Nathan/Adam/Jason on the podium). I also think Adam was going no matter what because, besides Nathan, he has been the strongest man. If anything, I think they would've put Ross, Adam, Nathan, and gave Vincent worlds, especially since, as Jonathan said, it doesn't really matter how they do at Oly because spots aren't up for grabs like they are at Worlds (and Nathan is the important one, and the only medal threat). I feel gutted for Ross, but it was definitely a hard decision and I think skate order determined a lot. It was ballsy getting rid of the silver medalist, and the alternate list was SO shady.
wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to judge the event as it is then you don't have to worry about anything all the scheming
Unless Ross won the National title, there was no way he was going to the Olympics. I think the judges placed Ross above Vincent so they could get rid of Vincent for one of Adam/Jason if necessary. Ross was never going and Vincent was set up to be another sacrificial lamb. It never occurred to the powers that be that both Adam and Jason would do so badly in their freeskate and place behind Vincent. But after Adam and Jason both bombed, it became clear that both could not be put on the team. Thus Ross was yanked and Adam named to the team. I'm glad for Vincent. I would much rather he be on the team than Jason. Seriously, pretty is as pretty does. Men's figure skating requires quads. Those without any do not belong on the US Olympic team.
Grace Liu Yep, exactly my thoughts.
Which is why Adam shouldn't be on the team; he lands his quad once in a blue moon. Ross landed his and does so much more consistently.
I theorize that singles skaters who bomb at the pre-Olympics worlds (and cost us a spot) tend to get put down and not make Olympics. Ross Miner follows Alissa Czisney and Tonia Kwaitkowski. FWIW, I think it does sound better to have a finisher in the top 10 (likely Adam) vs. someone who might not even make top 15 (Ross).
Can we discuss the selection committee naming Max Aaron as 3rd Alternate after a 9th place overall and 10th in the long finish???? USFSA stop trying to make Fetch happen!!
omg! i died
Like it or not, he has quads and a GP medal this season. It would make more sense to send him than someone who has never landed a quad and has a much weaker international resume.
Excited to get home and dish!
Dave and Jonathan I love you both. I'm not sure who I like more. Aside from the competition, what do you think of NBCs complete lack of recognition of Michelle Kwan? They showed Tara watching her own Olympic performance twice for the 20 year anniversary, when in fact it was actually the 20 year anniversary of Michelle's phenomenal performance at the Philadelphia Nationals. In addition, they showed Rudy winning in San Jose in '96 but no mention of the first of Michelle's 9 national titles. Of course this wasn't the first time they have completely failed to mention Michelle. They pretend as if she never existed. I find it to be a complete disservice to the sport as a whole, and of course to Kwan who is undeniably the most decorated and beloved American skater. I mean they show clips of Rachel Flatt for Gods sake...
It could be because Rudy is a San Jose native. And I don't think anyone really keeps track of anniversaries of National titles. The anniversary of Olympic titles sometimes gets a mention though. Plus, Tara is a commentator for the event, so I've course they're going to make a big deal out of her.
Hanna, I understand all of that, but NBC won't even ever show a picture of her. Instead the likes of Rachel Flatt and Alissa Cziny are shown. I mean no offense to either of them and their accomplishments, but these women certainly do not have the resume or the star power that Kwan has. Most of the general public probably doesn't even know who they are.
You talked about sending Todd to the Olympics because of his World Medal, and Nancy being sent to the Olympics because of her Olympic Medal, and World medals. Would you have sent Sasha to the 2010 Olympics, even though she was 4th at Nationals (she did have an Olympic medal, and World medals)?
Jerrod L true, but Sasha had not competed (literally at all) for over 3 years.
Too inconsistent in the long program. She came back and proved it once again.
Jonathan you know i still love you dearly but i can't deal right now with you liking Nathan's unfitting abominations of a costume. I need time to process.
Do NOT send Starr Andrews to Lori - She'll take her spark away and give her POTO. Shea Lynn is a much better choice for her.
Nathan shouldn't do both..
Nathan's chance in a podium finish is best focus on doing just the mens...
I can agree with leaving Ross off the Olympic team, but he should absolutely have been given a World's spot. Olympic-year Worlds with 3 men's spots is as low stakes a World's as you can get, and it would help combat viewer anger, and anger from skaters--not sending Ross to Olympics OR Worlds OR even making him first alternate is not just a slap in his face, but it's a slap in the face to all the senior US men who aren't in the group of Nathan, Adam, Jason, and Vincent. It says something about USFS's planning skills that they wouldn't do something that poses so minimal disadvantage but would likely help them in the long run (by alienating fewer viewers and athletes). I don't think it would be any huge burden for Adam to end his season at the Olympics instead of going on to Worlds.
Not all viewers are angry though. No matter who they picked, there would have been a faction of people who were upset. Adam has a significantly better scoring history than Ross in the past few years, including at Worlds. Adam has top 10 Worlds finishes on his resume, Ross doesn't. They could have kept Vincent out of Worlds, but he has also outscored Ross by quite a bit in the past year. Basically, Ross had plenty of opportunities to show his competitiveness internationally, not just this year, but in all recent years, and he didn't. I feel for him, but he didn't put himself in a good position heading into Nationals. All of the skaters were aware of the selection criteria. Perhaps they could have made him 1st alternate for Worlds, but I can understand the reasoning for picking Jason.
They wouldn't send him to Worlds until they know he is consistent. They want 3 spots for the next worlds and they feel Adam has more chance
Quadrenium 40:44 I've learned a new word today. Thank you x
I thought Mirai said "Fight through" lol.....
I definitely saw 'fight'... she knows the camera is on her.