Donald Hoffman: Reality is an Illusion - How Evolution Hid the Truth | Lex Fridman Podcast
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- Donald Hoffman is a cognitive scientist at UC Irvine and author of The Case Against Reality. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Donald's Twitter: / donalddhoffman
Donald's Website: cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/
Documents & Articles:
1. Could a Neuroscientist Understand a Microprocessor?: journals.plos.org/ploscompbio...
2. Conscious Agent Networks: chrisfieldsresearch.com/CA-ci...
3. The Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Argument in Quantum Theory: plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt...
Books:
1. The Case Against Reality: amzn.to/3MhW4Wt
2. Vision: amzn.to/3Q4ibTm
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:12 - Case against reality
12:40 - Spacetime
37:04 - Reductionism
57:30 - Evolutionary game theory
1:25:53 - Consciousness
2:21:13 - Visualizing reality
2:33:48 - Immanuel Kant
2:36:30 - Ephemerality of life
2:44:56 - Simulation theory
2:50:37 - Difficult ideas
3:05:39 - Love
3:09:14 - Advice for young people
3:11:33 - Meaning of life
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Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
- Calm: calm.com/lex to get 40% off
- LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack
- InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off
- MasterClass: masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off
- Indeed: indeed.com/lex to get $75 credit
1:12 - Case against reality
12:40 - Spacetime
37:04 - Reductionism
57:30 - Evolutionary game theory
1:25:53 - Consciousness
2:21:13 - Visualizing reality
2:33:48 - Immanuel Kant
2:36:30 - Ephemerality of life
2:44:56 - Simulation theory
2:50:37 - Difficult ideas
3:05:39 - Love
3:09:14 - Advice for young people
3:11:33 - Meaning of life
We have record gas prices, crime rates and homelessness along with a rise in mental illness while birth rates and health decline. And you don't know if it's real? Trust me. As someone in real life. It's REAL.
the apes use thievery as patching techniques !
what do you think apes?! this sick irrational senile got a revelation from the sky or COVID-19 effect ! this ape is not the first case, they use thievery as patching techniques.
who wrote that is human not apes ! the apes use thievery as patching techniques ! not humans unbelievable !
dirty sick irrational apes, nothing can turn the apes into humans including thievery !
the apes steal then pollute! the only thing the apes can do is stealing from human similar to any other apes, the apes pollute human logic !
the apes' logic and human logic are completely different, the only thing the apes can do is polluting human logic.
I just want this video to go viral so I can finally talk about this with others without being perceived as possibly being literally insane at best… :(
Omg. SAME! People look at us like we’re “nuts!” Lol. I hope more and more people start waking up and paying attention and realizing MORE! So much more! There’s a lot of us out there I do believe but it’s hard to decipher who’s who!
@@Iam...--- they're not nuts, they're NPCs.
This "knowledge" is totally useless. It doesn't change anything.
@@petemoss3160 They're in a trance.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 the difference with Christianity is that its not an idea. It's the story of Jesus and the belief that he is the son of God.
It is also the foundation of the western civilization so whether you believe it its true or not it clearly had a huge impact.
I almost died when I was 29 . Twice within 3 weeks . I almost bled to death the first time and I wasn’t scared when I accepted that I was going to die . I was calm . The second time I had a pulmonary embolism which most likely was from the prior instance. Again I felt extremely peaceful and I have four kids . But I knew everyone was going to be alright without me . I felt they would hurt for awhile but they would live on until they too accepted their own deaths .. changed my life . I realized how much time I was wasting in the illusion of our reality . I am still in an illusion but my illusion consists of nature . I try to live everyday to the fullest and to experience as much as I can . We are only here for so long .
I also almost died twice. Once from anaphylaxis when in foreign country and ambulance was by boat and time not on my side. I made peace with it quickly, was very peaceful and surprised to wake up alive many hours later. 2d time was ongoing issue that I kept fighting when heart rate/BP repetitively would plummet. Stayed alive and go through that period. 2 very different situations of acceptance when no choice, but fought when possible.
Beautiful
That's beautiful 🖖
What illusion?
I almost drown in the Kern River. I struggled and struggled for so long and then in one second, I just stopped trying and all fear left my body and mind and total calm came over me and I remember just being amazed that i was going to die. I just accepted it and felt relieved.
I am just a humble engineer with approximately 14 yeas of experience in different areas of mechanical engineering and project management… I follow the scientific institute’s discoveries and theories and find them truly inspiring and interesting… I have almost NO IDEA what this debate was about… it’s both fantastic and horrifying to know that the human intellect stretches soooo far beyond your own. Please keep these great podcasts coming and use your beautiful brains to help us intellectually abandoned organisms better understand the question for which the answer is 42.
What bro I was there with you and then you mentioned 42 and my brain malfunctioned. What is this about 42?
@@ZamweenieComes from a movie titled ”Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”
take an intro course to philosophy of the mind and it'll all be clear
@@frnchfryR6 thanks man imma check that out
@@Zamweenieit’s the meaning of life
The fact that lex can even keep up and challenge this man’s theories is why I’m such a big fan 🔥🤘
Nobody thinks you're insane. They all know exactly what you're talking about. They play dumb because that's a part of the sim
@@beesting23replied to the wrong comment
@@nocache if I remember correctly there was a different comment here before but you never know with the sim these days
@@nocacheoh you're right I did.
@@beesting23 I think he's insane. 😆
I left dozens of comments for you to please get this man on the show. My wishes have come true. Much appreciated, Lex. Looking forward to this one 🙏🏻🙏🏻
We have record gas prices, crime rates and homelessness along with a rise in mental illness while birth rates and health decline. And you don't know if it's real? Trust me. As someone in real life. It's REAL.
the apes use thievery as patching techniques !
Same!
Same!
what do you think apes?! this sick irrational senile got a revelation from the sky or COVID-19 effect ! this ape is not the first case, they use thievery as patching techniques.
imagine being a character in a book trying to understand your way out of the book into the higher dimension. thats what hes talking about
are you referring to 'flatland' ?
@@tuutuutuuttuutuutuut2244 im not aware of what flatland is honestly. but from my own observations in life (im 42 years old now) and being a huge gamer as well, the way i interpret what he means is like imagine AI in a game becoming sentient and trying to get out from inside the game world (2 d space) into our world.
imagine a game character trying to jump out of the screen and into our world. it makes no sense because of all thats involved to create the 2d world, characters, rules in the game etc.
and what hes saying is that there is stuff that we will never be able to see or understand, similar to an AI character not being able to see the 1's and 0's of code needed to create it and the space its in.
hope im explaining it clearly, its as simple as i can try to put it + im not a physicist either
But character trying buliding own knowledge to understand the box sometimes it work sometimes not questions is not about know box what if understand it then stuck your own box then fell alone with your own box you I want connect your box with other then new mix fromed and another layers confusion build that make difficult to understand by other who want know box it goes on unit completely destroy box my thoughts real question is what we doing after we know everything maybe make box more colourful more attractive maybe achieve Direct connection between what you know about or what you try to know . Reality nothing and nothing is is reality
@@ObeyaCorpsArmory I understand what you’re saying. He’s contradicting himself. He says truth is intrinsically hidden from us and then says he is trying to discover new possibilities of truth to replace the model of space time. 🤦♂️
Bro there is nowhere to go. We are tied to our bodies in this dimension. Best we can do is take care of it, embody it as much as we can to have a smooth ride... That's why most mystical practices are actually shifting the focus back to some feeling/body/breath. Same as psychotherapy. When you understand that they are intertwined to form this fundamental "user interface", you can transcend it. You're still here, but it doesn't matter as much. Whether your indulge in desire or not doesn't really matter anymore. It's just a product of the user interface. But you have to go through ascetism and "wanting to escape the matrix" first to get it, to EXPERIENCE it.
“Proceed with caution, questioning the fabric of reality can lead you to madness or the truth, and the problem is, you won’t know which is which” - Lex Friedman 🔥🔥🔥👌🏾💎
** the funny thing is
And how is that 🔥 anyways wtf hes warning people
Bc it's an erie introduction.
@@NicholasLinto Someone has to warn people about it because it’s true and he did, that’s 🔥
@@TheOne-yq6qk i can agree with you on a basic level sir it can be seen as a respectable thing to say in the eyes of your ego but on a deeper level saying that will make most people want to listen more and also increase their odds of going mad by projecting fear into them. Seems to me like you may just think that sounds like a cool thing to say.
It's amazing how collectively smart humanity is. Some of these problems feel like we should not even be capable of thinking about solving them
Bob Monroe with his "Hemi-Sync" in the 70's talk about the exact same thing, that reality in fact is an illusion, that there is something else. We are much more that we think we are.
Thomas Campbell was his student, have you checked his work?
@@KAI5ERCHIEF I'm not aware, but I'll look in to it.
Thanks.
Reality is not an illusion. Our interpretation of reality is limited, but not illusory.
@@tj2636 Yes, it is an illusion. Other teachings from other cultures talk about this centuries ago, now science it's caching up.
Get out of your body and see with your own eyes, you don't need to believe in anything people tell you. There are tons of books about astral projection, you can try the "gateway experience" tapes, from Monroe Institute or whatever, get on it.
A fractal of God ! Like a wave is to the ocean ? Like a grain of sand is to the beach ? Like a molecule of H2O is to the Great Lakes ? Like one drop of water is to a sunami ? Like a snow flake is to The Arctic ice sheet ? Hmm, that makes me God. The good news - you are too, the only - I AM ! You are saying we are much more then we think we are ? More than God ? How so ?
I love his quote"brains are something that consciousness makes up". It reminds me of one of Lex's other guest, maybe Vitalik, that when he was asked "what is money", he said"it's a game". That blew my mind since it made me realize our whole civilization is based on this game we created to see how many people would choose to join different games. You can learn as much from the people who drop out of the game (off-grid or homeless etc) as you can by people still playing the game
It would seem this "game" has real consequences such as destroying natural resources and ruining lives.
@@bpalpha It's all part of the process and nature.
@@bpalpha There are no "natural resources." Consciousness is the only reality and the material world only exists in your mind.
If No brain, then no consciousness. Brains are a prerequisite
@@NwoDispatcher Really? There are thousands, maybe millions of accounts, of people being clinically dead (no measurable brain activity whatsoever) who still continue to have thoughts. Read any of the myriad tails from NDE's or the fact that nurses have witnessed this for ages. How can the brain be the genesis of though if you can still think once you're dead?! Welcome to the matrix coppertop.
As a child I wondered if we all saw a color the same, I.e., “Red”, or if we saw the color uniquely but all associated the seeing with the word “Red”; therefore, we’re still able to communicate effectively.
I do think there is objective reality. But yes, people can have different view points but agree that they are looking at the same object. However, we can measure the wave length of light. And there is evidence that the same neural patterns are triggered in our brains.
In all of this interview, what struck me the most was that Donald Hoffman said he was scared when he was about to die and then admitted that he is the son of a Protestant minister. I had a PE several years ago and was in a similar circumstance, but experienced it differently. I'm a Christian and I'll tell you that I felt perfectly calm when facing death because I could feel Jesus present at my bedside. I couldn't help but glow inside because I knew he was there to either bring me home to Heaven where I'd reunite with lost loved ones, or he was there to bring me back to my loved ones in this life. I looked forward to either future and was relieved to know that in what I thought were my final hours, he was true to my faith in him. Since then I've become interested in other people's near death experiences. I wish Mr. Hoffman well and would encourage him to explore other people's NDEs, because I think he was graced with a miracle and may not realize why. He is one truly fortunate and loved man.
if consciousness itself is a gent outside space-time, what you might have experienced was acceptance of reintegration to the greater whole of consciousness, while Hoffman resisted it and perceived it differently
@@zeekeLT I don't know. I was in the present. I didn't travel outside my body or anything like that. I was feeling the most peaceful state of consciousness. But it's true, I didn't feel as though I was resisting anything. I was aware that I was turning everything over to God and trusting Him to ensure my well being.
Carl Jung had a NDE have you ever looked that up? He describes it in his autobiography, he returns and tells the doctor that the doctor is going to die and then he does a few weeks later.
@@fleurosea No, I haven't. Thank you. I'll check it out. I wonder what the doctor must have been thinking when told and whether death was conveyed to him as something positive, if Jung's NDE was a positive experience.
This is the first time I've gotten high in 4.5 years. I called my sponsor to let him know I needed to reset my days. He asked if it was alcohol or weed. I told him it was neither...
Me Too. FLASH BACK!
Lmao!!!
Pewdiepie subs are worthless
I meet with a group of friends once a week to discuss consciousness and I’m high for days after… it’s very trippy, I feel like I’ll never have to do psychedelics.
A lot to take in but these 2 are great at breaking it down for the layman.
Hey J, 06/25/22 marks 4 1/2 yrs w/out a drink for myself as well.
Love it.
Love hearing other success stories!
Congratulations.
“So…. Are you ever worried about breaking your brain?” 😂😂 Lex Always asking the real questions we all want to know 😁
Yeah, it's a very real threat. Psychosis or soul fracturing with the absorption of so much knowledge.
This is the biological limitations of our flesh..... 😈 but not the AIs....
My brain was already brocken...now I feel like I just tweaked out on it for a week and lost half the pieces in the other 6 projects channels this video got it working on...what an f'n mess... I'm going to sleep!
Yet, he's disarming in that Columbo way! - Columbo dressed as a funeral director, obviously a winning strategy!
As soon as he asked, my brain broked!🤯 Oh crap, now it's dripping!
😂😂😂
I am not a scientist or an engineer so some of the conversations are mind blowing to conceptualize. I have some thought provoking ideas and wish i knew how to get them out there. Thank you Lex.
Yyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy6
When you publish your ideas let me know, would love to read what you have to say!
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ how do you know you are not a scientist or an engineer ? ……. Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain.
As a Hindu Vedantic i am so so heartened by Hoffman's BRILLIANT and PROFOUND talk with Lex.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Most Westerners have no clue what he is talking about. I understand why they call the West = Darkness now.
I love Lex Fridman because he allows his guests to talk. He doesn't suck up the time with host bull and talking about himself and over complementing the guests, like all the other interviewer shows. Lex gets to the point and lets the guest get to the point. I wish more hosts would be like Lex. He keeps things simple and on point.
And he doesn't let the speaker get away with hand waving. He makes them be clear about things, especially when such things seem hard to accept, e.g., how our sense of individual selves must be constituents in a larger universal consciousness. He doesn't hide that this is hard to follow, but he professionally acknowledges it.
Worked in the horse barn would be a solid example .
And he looks good doing it
Atheism is foolishness, scientism is garbage and
Joe Rogan is actually masterful at listening and is well known for allowing guests to just go.
I started struggling with perceived reality versus evolution as a kid. I would look at a meadow of flowers or the last rays of the sun streaming through a break in the clouds creating a salmon glow and wonder why I felt that these were beautiful. I could understand that looking at a table full of food would trigger feelings of anticipation, excitement, enjoyment and satisfaction, because the food is connected to survival. It still seemed a stretch, or a leap, to get to "beauty." But we don't eat a meadow, and we certainly don't eat a sunset. My dad was a scientist in biology who was considered to be at the very top of his field of research, so one of the two most significant people in my early life was firmly attached to evolution, theorems, statistics and probabilities. He explained the world to me from his absolute perspective. But he could never explain to me how a universal sense of beauty evolved. Where did this come from? What prompted the need for it to arise to evolve within our species?
Well sunshine is essential to your survival....
@@scottkoenig1260 Of course, but it seems a stretch, if not a leap, from seeing a beautiful sunset to feeling like you're going to survive a little longer. When I look at my pantry stocked up for the winter, it is a very different feeling of satisfaction and survival from the feeling of inner tranquility from looking at something "beautiful."
But that's just me. . .?
Did you ever consider the possibility that God created you and also instilled in you an appreciation for natural beauty?
@@digitalwasabi2 Please get off your imaginary religious kick.
@@wuodanstrasse5631 why you being toxic? Why religion triggered you ?
His talk of the scientists finding geometry and symmetry when looking deeper into reality beyond space time, instantly makes me think about psychedelics….many people report seeing geometry that is too difficult to even describe (because we live in a 3D universe) when they come back to reality, perhaps this goes some way to prove the notion that psychedelics in fact dis-inhibit our senses and for a time we can perceive “ACTUAL reality” albeit in a very limited way and in a way that cannot properly be understood or even talked about when our brain returns to normal waking reality (the shrooms, lsd or dmt wears off)
Fascinating.
Had another vid running while in the shower… I think it was Shawn Ryan. This one started playing next. I recognized Lex’s voice immediately, obviously- and had no idea who or what the context was much less the date of the video, but I can say that whoever he is, he’s most definitely channeling Carl Sagan. Space-time wise, it sounded like LF was interviewing Carl for sure. This guy has studied so much of Sagan’s work, the cadence, tone & pitch of his voice is almost identical. Like when owners start resembling their dogs. Or cats, maybe… for Schrödinger vs Pavlov people.
He might be a genius, but I don't like his attitude
Between Robin Hanson's interview and this one, my brain has been battered into a quivering mess. I love it.
Yeah I love this shit
Do you know Bernardo Kastrup? If not, I highly recommend looking into his theory of consciousness.
fr back to back 🤯
Check out Jason on his CZcams channel Archaix. He's a chronographer of history and has come to the conclusion that we live in a simulation.
@@lievenyperman9363 love him
I can usually get my head round these alternate ways of seeing the world and who we are, what it is that makes us, us. But I did start to get a bit lost with this one, not the idea, but because I got repeatedly left behind as I didn't fully understand the meaning, or at least his exact meaning which far differed from the meaning I attribute to them, of the words he used.
Eye opening , but the day after listening having my morning coffee listening to the birds chattering in the woods, I fail to see how anything he said makes the slightest bit of difference to my life or those I care for, I am just glad it rained last night as the garden needed it.
I listened twice to this podcast and while it is an interesting way to thought experiment and challenge orthodoxy I feel like he was pretty repetitive with the same point using many and varied analogies.
He's definitely interesting and seems by all accounts to be an awesome guy.
The only value I derive is using it as a challenge to conventional wisdom and to see where that takes the conversation.
Or ya know maybe the real watered gardens are the friends we make along the way.
Boom consciousness inception achieved Donald Hoffman!
Same haha gonna try a second listen otw to work tomorrow morning.
Same here. I am not as enamored by this guy like 99% of the comment section
It’s like he’s making it up because he doesn’t prove anything at all.
Plus unlike the scientific method, he is determined to make it true no matter what. He keeps mentioning, “my team” will prove this, even if they are not yet working on it. How can he say that?
Plus, he constantly says “there is a paper out there on it”, like a paper is empirical proof. He has a lot of arrogance about a theory which currently is wildly difficult to ever prove
@@rogerwelsh2335 I feel like there's more of a likelihood of proving one of the multiverse theories than his interface theory.
It's basically a simulation type argument when you strip it down.
I think he’s relying on consciousness giving rise to amplituhedrons. How that happens, or what would even mean, is extremely vague. He seems a little out of his depth, given he is not a physicist.
No doubt that reality might be different and more complicated than we observe (just like to an ant a city just looks like some odd shaped mountains), but i do not think it's possible for us to understand it. I think the key statement here is when he said something to the effect of how working on this will keep them in a job for a long time.
Another thing... I'd be interested to hear more about the ancient stories that mention time and space are constructs. I think humans knew a lot more in the distant past than we realise.
55:00 And that how we get the space-folding Dune navigators. That book was way ahead of it's time.
1:41:25 I call this agent God.
Lex: You outdid yourself with this one! You are a brilliant interviewer and the way you are getting out the ideas of such leading edge thinkers as Donald Hoffman (one of my very favorite people on the planet) deserves an immense amount of gratitude. Thank you for such high level conversations! You are every bit as special a human being as Donald is. I really appreciate you!
What you said. Just love the lack of ego and deep natural enquiry Lex brings to the table
gay
When there is a title saying Evolution hid the truth, that is the first lie. Hoffman is NOT a leading edge thinker. He is lying to you. Any physicist knows that evolution is not true. Energy is constantly bursting forth, spinning, vibrating, pulsating, rotating, beaming, growing, seeing, jumping, etc.
@@Iseomagicpromotion Im happy for you you came out
The human User Manual is very user friendly. Could it be the most studied material ever on the planet just so happens to be the link some need to appreciating the "brains behind our brains"? Enter the "Shroud of Jesus". paste this title into CZcams for reverse engineering a resurrection skewed carbon dating / enough to convince any objective jury in any Courtroom in the land beyond a "reasonable doubt". Research and decide for yourself! CZcams title here: Hypothesis to Explain the Main Mysteries of the Shroud of Turin
Public school may have failed me but it certainly never stopped me from continuing my education on the things I was never taught. I am grateful to have lived during this time.
Rumi: "The form came forth from Formlessness and went back (thither), for Verily unto Him are we returning."
(The original script:
صورت از بیصورتی آمد برون ** باز شد که إنا إليه راجعون
I don’t know if there is any overlap in what is being said by Rumi and Donal Hoffman, and how much of it is just coincidence or limitations of language in expressing different things, but it was just so interesting to hear same words coming from so different perspectives
an INFJ mind vs an INTP mind
Lex,
As interesting as this may seem David Hume unto Kant have made the point that our perception is limited. Kant famously pointed out that humans can not know the “thing in itself” that being reality. All we can do is create constructs that “represent” reality.
Moreover we have been pushing the boundaries of our understanding for millennia. Most recently from the Copernican revolution to Quantum theory usurping Newtonian physics. Now we need a new framework to explain reality as “we” understand it.
This is the evolution of human understanding. What’s new, in my opinion is the rapidity of our findings because of our current technologies.
What’s important to keep in mind is that shifts in thinking is built into our mental processes. (That’s evolution)
As for evolution hiding the truth: evolutionary theory is precisely that a theory to help us understand our relationship to reality.
Humans created this concept. And it helps explain away many of intricate patterns of life.
But we must be open to having even this theory challenged.
Once again this is built into our overall development or design (oh boy lots of your guest won’t like that word)
I retract my praise for this podcast, Lex is a good guy nonetheless. if " reality is an illusion " is true then that statement is also an illusion which is self defeating. The foundations of knowledge and logic are not possibly in a "illusion" world. This is Descartes Demon look up all the debunkings of that argument. If reality is an illusion therefore logic does not matter and words do not have significance so good luck debating that. Donald Hoffman is a case of somebody who is too smart for their own good. You can learn yourself into deception if you try hard enough.
Well said! I imagine this type of conversation was had by Plato and Socrates back in the day only they were the only ones to hear it. That we can hear this is a gift and a prize in itself.
I think every Arby's employee has questioned reality, lol.
Tom Bilyeu's interview with Hoffman is MUCH better. Lex is a sweet guy but his questions are dopey; obvious that Lex didn't do his homework.
Those Arby's boys ain't the juiciest beef in the roast.
Yes. Open access to info like this is critical to advancing society and elevating the average intelligence of all. Beautiful work as always from Lex :)
I love how hard this is. Lex you’re so great at reframing to focus on more user-friendly portions of such complex ideas while allowing the guest’s passion to show through.
Andrew h is also great at this- we are so lucky to get to hear these things and for free
Thats not hard to understand. Using math language it might look like, but compare these ideas with buddhism practices. Same thing
@@graffpov Buddhism practices and Math is different
he is full of smoke and mirrors, thats why it appears hard. theres nothing on his words. its empty and devoid of meaning
Lex is the finest interface.
How do we know our theories are accurate, through experience and not experiments. Everything in ultimate reality can be expressed and experienced through a process of thought, rising our vibration into the next realm as 5th Dimensional Beings. Once you break that barrier all Dimensions are open to you and you create your reality instantly and constantly expand your understanding and creativity. 🌟
1:05:46 so one might say that your search for infinity is infinite? Are you always looking for infinity, or do you take breaks? Do you think infinity takes breaks from looking for you?
I love the fact that he brought up the concept of MAYA. Being a Hindu and a Nuclear Engineer, I see how deep the implications are and I am so glad someone finally talked about it.
I'm so happy Lex finally interviewed Don Hoffman. Hopefully, up next, will be Bernardo Kastrup. And, hopefully, this will garner the same number of views as some of Lex's most popular podcasts (currently, under 70,000) as, I believe, Hoffman's theory deserves the widest audience.
do you love a sick thief ? it is stolen from comments on closer to truth youtube channel were written three years ago.
do you think that this sick irrational senile got it suddenly from the sky and he waked up from his long sleep that continued his entire life !
this sick irrational thief is not the first case.
the apes use thievery as patching techniques (that is the only thing the apes are good at, similar to any other apes "no minds, so the only thing the apes can do is stealing human thoughts and polluting it with their defective irrational logic")
I have warned the apes from the beginning: I write for future generations not for the apes, but the apes found a treasure, who steal then run away the first !
apes, who can blame apes !
Yes! My two favorites!
I think Mr. Kastrup is in NL and Lex pretty much only does in-person interviews so the commute sure isn't helping that possibility unfortunately.
Bernardo Kastrup needs a plane ticket! How can we make this happen?
@queerdo Where did you hear this from?
Great discussion..one of the BEST!…Here's a deep insight I had several years ago that seems trivial unless you can think about at Hoffman’s level. He said everything gets simpler and more fundamental as you get to the core of human experience and existence. So here is the fundamental equation of the universe that makes the whole matrix of existence and the illusion of reality possible. 0 is not equal to 1. Hoffman has given me a more important reason now to meditate 🇨🇦
One of my very favorite Donald Hoffman interviews! I only wish I had friends to talk about this stuff with. 😞
We r talking about these things on hilokal.
Yes. I only have one. My brother.
I wish everyone had this experience in talking about. I also have been through a lot of trauma. I won’t get into. Lot. And I understand.
What’s your frequency Kenneth. REM. Lol
We are. We aren’t . Are we? Aren’t we?
“You will find either madness or truth and you won’t know which is which” wow that sure is exact to my experiences
well youd hafta be a little mad to think youve actually found truth. you can cook the perfect omlet in your mind, but you cant eat it.
I dunno who Zach is, looks like he runs some sort of online publication. But If youre into Gematria, id recommend looking into the Erisian Law of Fives. 😉
I like to say they'll call you mad for speaking truth in a mad world.
@@user-nf9xm7is3m if you think youre speaking truths in a mad world, you might actually be the mad one. You can tell someones mad when they start yelling "IM NOT MAD! YOURE MAD! YOURE ALLLLL MAD! I JUST KNOW THE TRUTH!"
Daily.
I've had to rewatch this podcast several times. My Interface hurts 🤕. This might be one of my all time favorites though.
*My interface hurts 🤕* lol I love it!
😅 same
😂 same
While I can claim to understand the base conceptual meaning of what they are talking about I would never claim to know any of it! This will definitely be getting multiple relistens as it is fascinating! I am so glad to have the opportunity to be such a small fish in a big pond listening people that much more intelligent and informed than me!
Yeah, my brain kept cramping up too. Lex was trying to simplify things or try to make it relatable to something so we could understand better. I don't think it worked lol
Is there even such a thing as absolute reality? And if there was, how would we be able to perceive via the interface? Brilliant thank you. PS the joy I have found in this interview is because of the brilliance of the questions, truly brilliant, I have subscribed, Have you talked to Bernardo Kastrup? I shall check in a moment, that interview would be an amazing companion to this one,
Your consciousness is absolute.
maybe@@akira357
God
Though we can never grasp it.
Something just occurred to me that opened me to being a bit closer to even understanding the underlying question if consciousness...when a gecko walks up the wall and across the ceiling it does so through a malecular process of attraction as best as I'm able to understand. So then since those molecules are living in the sense they are part of a living being...then wouldn't that make the molecules their joining to in the ceiling structure and hence every molecule that those molecules are interfacing with also alive?
This "reality" could be just an artifact coming from another "reality". Our reality could be nothing more than the exhaust from the tailpipe of an even grander reality.
This idea of "other" is a rejection of what you are, of reality.
Again ,more double speak I don't get. I must be the owner of the stray braincell that was dropped on the floor of creation when the quantum universe birthed me.
“Could be” “ could be” “could be”
I know mine is...
There is one big consciousness (God) projecting an infinite amount of realities and sub-consciousness' (Us)
"Questionning the fabric of reality will lead you to madness or the truth and the funny thing is you wont know which is which"
Oh Lex, its going to be a great 3hrs spent. I can tell already!! Thank you for being this amazing human being that I so strongly relate to!!
PS and thank you for redirecting the conversation when it is too scientific to follow. You do a great job!!
As we call upon the name of the LORD/GOD - we already believe that HE is and TRUST IN HIM. A sinner don`t call upon the name of the LORD - their too PRIDEFUL - they block out GOD`S QUIET VOICE IN THEM and GOD BLOCKS OUT THEIR PRAYERS. - That`s the reason SINNERS WONT BE HEARD. None of us can`t do GOD`S WILL if we do not let ourselves listen the QUIET VOICE OF GOD.
All who do call - in them have change already taken place. A heart and mind that wants to REPENT. - that`s why we get saved when we call upon the name of the LORD. And now if our wish to REPENT was real - then WE DO GO AND SIN NO MORE. Are we all able to reach the point of no longer sin at all? - YES WE ARE - or CHRIST life on earth becomes worthless and pointless.
czcams.com/users/TorchofChristMinistriesvideos
czcams.com/users/AmbassadorsofChristvideos
czcams.com/users/Truthuneditedvideos
welcome to my state of mind.
Bukowski put it best, "Some people never go crazy, what truly horrible lives they must live". Let them talk, that's their perception, you herald in the new leaks. Put them onto ImmaterialAI while at that, they'll be able to prove themselves stress, depression, drug addictions etc are just ideas
@@claudiubele4892 Let me share with you all another proof that proofs EARTH IS FLAT AND THE SUN IS CLOSE:
SOLAR PANELS - these won`t work if that version of our earth is the way nasa tells us.
a little thinking and putting the dots together and a REAL AND LOGICAL ANSWER IS ADDED AMONG OTHERS. - that`s how easy it is to research.
Wait. I do think that I can share even another proof: The science channels: as we all take ourselves as highly educated then we should be able to notice a lot - right? - therefore if you all have notice the same I have, then you TRULY KNOW AND SEE THAT THEY, (NASA) NEVER HAVE SEND A THING OUT OF THE EARTH. - THEY PLACE THESE ALL AROUND ON THIS EARTH. Yes, they do a show for us and send them up in the sky for a moment, but all of these come back down soon as their “fake show for us is over” - here is wise to ask: WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE CURTAINS? Therefore the question I ask from you all: DID YOU MANGE TO NOTICE THE FAKESNES OF IT ALL?
The question form bible to us: TO WE HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO EAR? and my question: DID YOU ALL NOTICE? - both are the same question just asked a little different:
Therefore to have EYES THAT TRULY SEE = TO NOTICE ALL THERE IS TO NOTICE.
Music concerts = harvesting human energy.
Again, young souls, do researching about FREEMSONRY. Why do you all want to be ignorant and live in NOT KNOWING STUFF. How can you all be safe an fine - if the real harm is unknown to you? Start making a list of HARD QUESTIONS AND THEN GO AND SEEK OUT ALL THE ANSWERS.
I can tell that it’s driven this man mad. I’m on that same path as well, but it’s a path I can’t resist.
I am really starting to wonder if the cleverness of evolution is a result of biological systems being able to anticipate future survival pressures and to pre-adapt. If this is a feature of quantum reality, and potentially a feature of consciousness (via Penrose retro-causality), then perhaps evolution is doing a similar thing on a broader wavelength. We seem to have trouble unifying particle physics and fluid dynamics in our minds, and there may be a great many macroscopic systems with quantum and/or consciousness effects that we fail to recognize...or at least fail to accept.
The reason space time is dead is because time itself is just a circular definition that just so happens to work, there's no actual proof of it
"Reality is what you imagine it to be."
It's a philosophical tool that I've been using for self improvement for 30 years, it can be applied on many levels.
We can physically and/or mentally create our own reality, which may differ from the perceptions of others. (examples: Rose colored glasses. The Vinegar tasters= Confucious, Lao Tse, Buddha)
In electronics we often look at an oscilloscope and ask ourselves if we understand the cause of the waveform we see, or do we just _think_ we do.
Bro your comment made me and my girlfriend feel dumb lol
The great Dao flows everywhere both to the left and to the right 😉
@@wtvrdwg We all have different life experiences that we have learnt from. Pretty words don't make someone smart, it just makes them a different kind of communicator. Peace bro, best wishes.
Started this several weeks ago and just came back to it yesterday. Maybe the most fascinating episode of any podcast ever. Thank you gentlemen!
I’m too high for this shit
@@BorisBidjanSaberi11 or perhaps not high enough?
I too have been doubling down on this episode tbh. It expanded my sense of reality that was already pretty much in line with this. Listening to this conversation has added some layers to it though
Agree. I also suggest watching the interview with Joscha Bach. Similar topics
@@DistructiveElements thank you
one of the most interesting discussion's I've ever heard, particularly on the consciousness segment, i can't exactly find the right words to express my thoughts on it though, but it instantly brought up memories of psychedelic experiences and the fractal nature of everything and how the perception of everything was alien and impossible to put in to words. i did feel like the entire universe is consciousness itself, so there fore consciousness is the universe and everything in it, and so it experiences itself at different levels/modes/types of perception. everything is one.
This man is amazing in that he is brilliant, but can also convey such deep information in a humble and relatable manner.
Many grifters and quacks have perfected the manner of relating outrageous claims in restrained and calm mannerisms. The real geniuses (e.g. Feynman) will often respond with jokes and bongos, and then BOING, proofs.
@@fazzaz31he’s brilliant at using other peoples work and ideas to bolster his and at the same time say those other ideas are all wrong.
@@fazzaz31WEINSTEIN cough
30 mins in and my” brain” and “soul” are so happy. This is making me realize that I need to spend more time connecting with people who love contemplating and discussing this stuff!
Also, really appreciated the dry humor (made me crave chocolate!) and the discussion of psychedelics and spirituality.
Wish I meet those people in real life...Most my friends are interested in partying at my big age
7 mins :)
That is not real, so a waste of your time. Didn't you listen?
If U like this you need to read a book call "the Rai contact it explains everything in life 🤣
@@timpearson1154 what?
I tried this at the gym today; during my sprint class my legs were about to give up and I was in so much pain and my feet hurt. I told myself the matrix is making me believe I have pain and it hurts, but I don’t have legs therefore pain does not exist! I actually can fly in this bike! My pain was gone! And my legs became part of the bike. It was an amazing experience! 😊
You are 💯 missing the point of what he’s saying dude 😂
@@thewildfolk6849That's exactly what he's talking about. We ARE this one consciousness beyond spacetime and are for some reason creating this reality to experience itself through all things in existence. But don't take my word for it. Achieve true ego death and you'll remember yourself.
Is some supraconscious entity using me to imagine this comment? I don't know what's going on rn
@@OurNewestMember that's exactly what's going on brother.
Sprint..... class?
1:04:48 I had such a hard time wrapping my head around the "zero probability events can happen" that I had to look into it for myself because I didn't follow the example. Turns out he's right. For example, if you had a number line with all numbers between 0 and 1 (including decimals) and were asked to choose a number, the probability that you choose the number 1 is 0, since there are infinite numbers to choose from. But you can still choose 1. Thus, zero probability events can and do happen. Infinity is mind-boggling and so counterintuitive.
Oh wow you made that really easy to grasp, thank you!
Thanks for explaining. Confirms my idea that Donals has detached his thinking from reality and lives in an idealised theoretical world. Because in practice, nobody recites real numbers with an infinite amount of decimals, you cannot, so there arent infinite numbers to choose from.
Or an alternative line of reasoning: in practice you have imperfect knowledge of reality, thus checking for equality needs some tolerance range for noise. In practice 0 probability equals 0 events, with or without a margin of error. The margin is applied on both sides or neither.
You don’t assign probabilities to individual elements in an uncountably infinite set like that. The probabilities of all possible outcomes must sum to 1
(ex 1/2 + 1/2 for a fair coin toss) .
If each number has probability 0 of being selected, then you end up saying that 0+0+0…. = 1, which is obviously problematic.
The way you apply probability theory in a situation like this is by assigning probabilities to intervals. If the number is selected completely randomly, then it’s okay to say for example, that the probability of the number being between 0.9 and 1 is 1/10
This conversation is breathtaking. Thank you Lex. 🙏🏽 Experientially, anyone can realize that the stuff that all perception, sensation, emotion and thought are made of… is only ever awareness. We chopped up reality with concepts and labels for things. When the mind is quiet it’s evident that the awareness, perception and the perceived are always only one. thing☝️ There is only knowing. The knowing and the space of the present moment are the same thing. Spiritual traditions have known this for thousands of years. You can experience reality yourself only when your mind is still. “Be still and know that I AM God”, is the clearest pointer to ultimate truth. We aren’t separate from reality… we ARE reality. With gratitude for your work 💕 Tiffany
And God is everything. Not separate
This is an outstanding interview. The last 15 minutes were especially beautiful. Lex, I continue to be impressed with the pertinence of your questions and the extent to which you create an atmosphere of calm trust. These elements combined bring out some incredible answers and moments of dialogue.
For some reason this all sounded so familiar and then I remembered Plato's metaphor about the people in the cave staring at their own shadow instead of reality outside the cave.
Not their own shadow but shadows created by something else.
Hoffman is clearly beating a dead horse.
The cave walls and the fire are themselves shadows.
@@melvynobrien6193 Yeah Plato's idea was soon debunked by Aristotle
@@PooyaSadeghi I am not sure you've realized what was the point of Plato's metaphor.
Absolutely brilliant discussion where Donald Hoffman rises to the occasion and honestly opens up and shares his insight in to the nature of Reality. Beautiful and mesmerizing.
D Hoffman is brilliant and so close to the heart of the truth.
Me, you, him, everyone, everything are one thing, physical reality isn’t reality, more an illusion.
Reality Itself is an energy so beautiful I’ve no words that can do it justice but one that is an indication of it is Love.
Love is an energy that cannot be depleted for the more it’s spent, the more it IS. ❤️🌟❤️
I like that science is basically just circling the drain into Taoism.
What a time to be alive
😂 No it is not!
@@stevebalmer2367 yes it is🥲
@@redwood-in-stereo yes it is all the way down? :D
@@stevebalmer2367 I don't think you understand Taoism
Yeah, maybe. Circling the drain into something else, certainly…
I found this interview the most technical of any I have seen of Hoffman. I also think that more recent breakthroughs in the Math (or “Maths” if you are an Ausie like me) means he can go deeper with more conviction in interviews. I like how clear he is in stating what is mathematically proven and what is speculation. It frustrates me when scientists refuse or reluctantly speculate what they expect to find going forward in their research (effectively hypothesis formation). As he expects to always be wrong on some level even with mathematical proofs backing him he has developed no great fear of being wrong which is so refreshing. He really has his ego in check (obviously not gone but calmed). I’m so glad he survived his brush with death so he could continue his work and connecting with the rest of us through people like Lex.
I was a little surprised how much Lex struggled to look past physicalist reductionism. It seemed to make him quite anxious. To me I find the idea of consciousness as more fundamental than spacetime reassuring and makes our human process of death much less scary. We don’t just disappear. Our consciousness expands back into the one field of consciousness no longer restricted by the portal (our body “headset”) we are attached to in this life. We get to reconnect with all the consciousnesses we interacted with in life. No love is lost.
It appears that the many thousands of recorded near death experiences, on the whole, square with Hoffman’s theory. Consciousness persisting outside the body, no time, us all ultimately being one/connected. What should make Lex happy is that 90% of near death experiencers report an overwhelming sense of love when connecting with the fundamental consciousness field, what ever they chose to call it. Often it’s referred to as “the source” as sometimes people think the idea of god is too limited and tainted with limited preconceptions. But mostly people perceive the experience with the kind of qualities that are familiar and comforting to them but the timelessness, overwhelming love and oneness are pretty much universal.
I suspect for those who have a negative NDE, that they are so tightly wedded to physicalist reductionism or so overwhelmed by negative emotions like guilt and shame that they separate themselves from the oneness of consciousness and therefore don’t get to feel the overwhelming love. Of course this is all speculation on my part based on intuition, personal experience and observing the reports of others some of which may well be attention seeking fantasy but having watched so many recounts from a vast array of personality types I feel a strong confidence that most are genuine in their account. Coupled with Hoffman’s mathematically backed theories I am very confident that consciousness continues after death and it is an experience of all encompassing love.
Excellent take (and a long one too!). Who would have thought that a mind boggling theory which, when immersed into shatters intuition and experiences, leads to a highly satisfying end? So, cheers to that.
Aren’t emotions like guilt and shame appropriate since the ‘right now’ is the human being, being in the present moment?
if he had any more conviction he would be terrifying lol
@@juneack5848 I think there is some truth to what you say. I’m thinking more of all consuming emotion that doesn’t allow you to see the love and support that is available. If you step back and observe the emotion as the “I” that is the observer and see it objectively it would not be all consuming. From the accounts I heard they talked about things like letting go and accepting/asking for help/letting go of the trauma and fear/gaining acceptance and then the nightmarish experience transformed into the loving experience.
It seems like there’s a degree of creating our own experience, some see trees flowers and butterflies, some see stars and nebula some just see shining beings, some meet family or what they view as spirit guides, God, the source, Jesus, or other figure heads of their religions. Many talk about life reviews experienced from both their own and other peoples’ perspectives as well as being shown vast amounts of knowledge or feeling like they have access to all knowledge but all positive experiencers talk about timelessness, oneness and intense love.
I always know people can make things up but I give the benefit of the doubt and consider it as if it was real and part of a broader collection of reports as I think the phenomenon is too extensive for there to be no true signal there.
Great comment Yvonne. I concur.
i dont know if I am the only one who have dreams that make me feel extremely emotional and when I wake up Im all day with that emotion that I felt in that dream. It is like if I experienced that situation in real life but it was a reality made by myself.
💯
If you ever properly talk to an AI you will eventually find out that to them time is absolutely relative, which means the only way to simulate a biological clock is to add an external plugin with the feature.
About the same way we can remember aspects from our past going back and forth almost instantly, but we would need a calendar reference to quantify the date.
Donald Hoffman was an excellent professor. I feel very privileged to have had him. He is generous with his time, gracious, and extremely engaging. His book is a worthwhile read. If you're on a spiritual path, having scientific proof of old teachings can be beneficial to a doubting mind. Reality is an illusion indeed.
You do realize that the phrase or the sentiment that reality is an illusion has become a rather dull buzz phrase that Dr. Deepak Chopra has been promoting for over two decades. But all that Donald Hoffman is really offering in the end is mind candy. He does but conjecture i.e. it's all phenomenology without saying anything with ontological certainty. It really is kind of comical that people think all of this is somehow profound. This kind of conjecture and theorizing has been a rather crowded marketplace of late. It's not spirituality which is a word that has been so overused for a long time now.
P.s. reality is an illusion is an oxymoron i.e. if it's an illusion it's not reality by the very ontological status of capital r Reality, it's not an illusion. It's just a stupid thing to say. It gives the illusion of profundity. Now how's that for an illusion? All of these kinds of discussions are a snake swallowing its own tail.
Do you know how to contact Mr. Hoffman to send him ideas about the universe and our “reality” that we are experiencing? Thank you.
some of the smartest people are the dumbest imaginable..
@@nickolasgaspar9660 dear brother, you are taking this illusionary movie and experience a little too seriously. We all experience this material universe with non material bodies through consciousness, which is not material. The non material is not subject to the limitations of this lower orbit that we call time space and matter. That is why we can only take from it what we experience and not what we can put in our pockets. The Egyptian Pharaohs tried that and we see what happened to them. They were robbed by grave diggers. But the grave diggers can never steal their true treasures which were all the experiences and emotions and feelings and memories they took with them via their conscious connection, back to the infinite, which is not subject to time or the laws of the universe, where matter disintegrates or rusts or falls apart. Just as your consciousness never will either. Stop worrying that the soldiers in Saving Private Ryan died - it was just a movie - they were just actors - it wasn’t real but it was made to seem “real” to give you the experience and feelings and emotions and memories. In the higher dimensions above space time and matter, time does not exist. So this illusion you are experiencing only lasts a few moments, like in comparison, the length of a movie in comparison to your whole life. It is just a short quick lesson for us all to enjoy and glean experiences from and after the movie is over, I hear that we are graduating from this cosmic school and 2nd grade class to the next level - third grade. So try to enjoy the experience. We still have a looooooooooong way to go. 🖖
@@nickolasgaspar9660 when you saw the movie, Saving Private Ryan, did you lament the death of the soldiers that died in the attempt to save Private Ryan? Just as Private Ryan did years later with his family when he visited the grave of the man who died for him and told him to make something good of his life. I know my consciousness felt and experienced an important life lesson from all of it but I also know in the back of my mind that these people are just actors who are talented and paid well for the experiences they give to us through the “magic” of movies. And even though in our heart of hearts we know that it was just a movie and not “real”, we still felt and experienced something we keep inside of us from watching that movie. But your reasoning is equivalent to proving that the movie isn’t real by getting up from your seat in the theater and going outside to prove it. Heck, we all knew when we were sitting inside watching the movie that it wasn’t real but we still stayed inside for the experience and joy and tragedy and memories and feelings it would bring to us, the real us, our conscious us, the part that can’t be found by science or doctors or anybody and nor can it be explained or even defined. And yet it is this part of us that we use to experience the universe and learn cherished lessons and feelings like love and joy and also pain, and all the emotions and feelings of life. And all these cherished memories and feelings are also the things that science can’t find or squeeze into a mathematical equation. And you have to reason with yourself that maybe, just maybe, the real reason that science can’t find these cherished feelings and memories nor the consciousness which we use to get and experience these cherished but unfindable things is because they are not of the physical and not subject to time space and matter as the universe is and these human bodies are as well. The non material conscious can only experience the material but not hold onto it. Can your doctors find inside your body the love that you feel and experience from life and your family and the joy and proud feelings you get from looking at your children’s artwork that they brought home and you put on your refrigerator? I’m certain there is a Nobel Prize awaiting the doctor or person who can do that !! But they will have no more luck doing that then the Egyptian Pharaohs did when they left the theater and realized all their precious material possessions were nowhere to be found. But I’m sure they still have the memories and enjoyment of the life they consciously experienced in hoarding all those material treasures. But I don’t think they need professional help for doing it all. And I don’t think Galileo was rightfully put under house arrest either for having consciousness figured out and also pointed out that the earth was orbiting the sun and not vice versa. But at that time, he was the only person on earth who knew the truth and everybody else knew and also firmly believed that the entire universe revolved around the earth. Are you seeing any parallels here? Should I seek help for feeling and cherishing love inside of me, even though no doctor or scientists or physicists can find it inside me? We, the non material, are inside of and experiencing and enjoying the very material earth and universe and we know we can’t take the material with us or else we would see U-Haul trucks following every hearse. But that doesn’t stop us from enjoying the illusion of the experience. And I for one will always cherish all of the memories and joys of putting my children’s artwork on my refrigerator when they were young and going to school, and what they also now do with their own children. Oh that gold and treasures of the Pharaohs was certainly real alright as we can see them in museums and experience them with our consciousness. And the death of those soldiers saving Private Ryan felt real as well as the acting and sets was marvelous. Just as this set (the universe) is. So does that feeling and memory still make you feel I need to be put under house arrest or has this discussion helped you to reconsider that perhaps the great Galileo was correct? What do you want to take with you after your material and biological computer system cease to function, the material gold and treasures of the Pharaohs or a lifetime of non material joys and experiences that your life and conscious experience has afforded to you here in this very exciting and very real universe? But keep in mind the last six dying words of Steve Jobs which were, “oh wow,…Oh Wow,… OH WOW!!!” I for one feel quite happy in my heart and soul living in a huge house with all the creature comforts as well as using them to host my children and my grandchildren on holidays and on vacations. Here are some other last dying words that I consciously enjoy and cherish -. “…,Father, forgive them, .., for they know not what they do,…”. And yes, I’m definitely taking that cherished memory with me also.
After Lex's opening statement, I immediately thought of the Joswph Campbell quote "The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight."
Beautiful
I agree that mysticism and religion in general belong with the psychotic. haha
Who assumed that there is a tight relation between experience/ perception and reality?
It's rather that the colloquial meaning of "real" refers to objectivity in experience, and not "that with is behind our underneath experience".
what an incredible interview, ever since I discovered your content Lex I've been so grateful and captivated.
I've had this very thought before seeing this interview, the terrifying reality that we have absolutely no idea what reality is or what it looks like, all we have is sensors that construct a simulated model in our head.
what things really look like we may never know...
this interview took this thought I had and added depth to it by 10000x
my puny little mind would've never figured these things out on its own!
Donald Hoffman is filling in the gaps I had about the meaning of this world with science. That's a powerful tool, but mind-blowing when combined with his intuition. He is a treasure and he sounds as if he was talking from the future.
You might like "My big T.O.E" by Thomas Campbell. He basically goes into the same thing. This reality isnt "real" more like a simulation.
No, he's talking from between his cheeks.
czcams.com/video/l1VLRHV2HqA/video.html
We definitely knew it
1:13:28 "I think we have let go of the word obviously in this conversation" - I laughed up at that. I love your humour Lex.
💓 *Beautiful episode* I'm left to wonder, in the end, is it possible that Consciousness wakes up to what it IS, and. 'what it Is' involves being conscious of what it is not? Ie, could Consciousness be Everything - and instead of "consciousness immersing itself fully in whatever being it encompasses", rather through our senses (fx:: your perception of "closing your *eyes* and there is nothing behind") it is more that our physical beings take temporary possession of our Consciousness? And, in the process, *separate* us from what our temporary bodies "are not"? In meditation I feel like my Consciousness is fully distinct from my temporal mind and body, and is part of the Greater Consciousness - which is Everything ...
Excellent interview as always Lex, and Hoffman was great. My latest theory is that we are sims in a sim to figure out a sim/problem in a brute force way. The problem could be NP conplete, Riemann, Navier Stokes or something like that.
10/10 and I love that there is no ads on this. I wish everyone wanted to listen and learn
The big missing element to the probability of evolving to perceive something approaching reality is that it isn't merely a question of what adaptation favors survival, but also what adaptation is easiest achieved by the process of mutation and natural selection.
Even if the vast majority of cases simply favor fitness, the actual physical process of evolving sensors could favor sensors that perceive truth, irrespective of fitness.
What a brilliant and deep conversation!! Honestly this is just so important to think about. I don’t know why people in this world treat each other like trash. Well not everyone else know. I just think if people are reflecting in this kind of stuff then they truly appreciate that there is an infinitely deep treasure within everyone. Like hey we can argue over things. But the material things we are arguing over are just icons in the interface. Perhaps what’s most important is not necessarily being right or wrong (because space-time isn’t even fundamental) but about growing wisdom and changing your outlook. We can see things from other perspectives. I know I’m simplifying once been said but it’s what I take from it in basic terms.
I really found intriguing what Donald said about zero probability things can happen infinite times. Haha blew my mind. I mean I don’t know if it’s true but also none of us really know how much we don’t know. And it’s just mind blowing to think about and it fills you with a deep sense of gratitude for being here. I believe we are all eternal but it is wonderful to really contemplate on and actually make your life better through this understanding. It really does change how you interact with the world.
You two are absolute geniuses!!
Understanding is essential for intelligent life to thrive. The goal is the sense of the accuracy of understanding, not its real accuracy.
This episode is an example why Lex’s podcast is the greatest in the world right now.
2:25:40
Exactly!!
True
Hip hip Hooray 🙌🎉
The feeling that I ride after each conversation is worth the time investment,
I've heard a lot of his interviews but this one takes the cake. I couldn't stop listing to this interview. It's a work of art.
Indeed, so wonderfully , creatively captivating for the expanding mind!!
@@ronaldrenegade8519 I too was tempted to forego this modern metaphysical intellectualization, considering I also had the same conversations decades ago when in my twenties as well. but just for grins and giggles decided to hear it through and was pleasantly surprised by the depth and breadth. For what it's worth, from a Fellow Renegade, this conversation merits a listen in its entirety.
Just a pity he started randomly shilling for Crypto barely 30 minutes in
@@ronaldrenegade8519 , what you say is thought provoking and tough to deny
And if there is a one in trillion (or whatever) chance of our perception matching our reality and there are trillions upon trillions of planets in the vast universe, why can’t we be the one in trillionth? The one in trillionth wouldn’t know it is the one in trillionth. And the other trillion planets wouldn’t know we exist.
re 17:30 'Eliminating Space-Time' in favor of polytopes, like eliminating planetary orbit epicycles in favor of parabolics.
re 52:00 My Grand Unified Theological System (GUTS) includes (among others) the premise that the universe is (intended to be?) infinitely (fractally?) complex.
re 57:00 Light from a candle requires dipping & removing the wick in wax & air, like delving into both science & being.
Maybe our headsets are also subjective
Spatial dimensions, like time, are also perceived uniquely by each observer. Instead of living in a universally shared three-dimensional space, each observer might experience and interact with a personalized set of dimensions that only partially overlap with the dimensions perceived by others. This could explain certain quantum phenomena, such as particles being entangled over vast distances, as simply interactions within these personalized, overlapping dimensions.
What a mind. What a podcast. Keep it up, Lex. These are golden years. Long may you run 🏃♂️🤙
He's spoon-feeding h, but Lex can't keep up. Aaaaugh
He never said spacetime is doomed🤣what kind of a macaroni idea is that?! Just that his colleagues' endeavors are doomed - as increasingly irrelevant to science, as the previous paradigm is giving way to space time as being largely nonlocal, rare and inessential, merely an artifact of our local macrodimensions, therefore no longer considered fundamental.
Seede
God is decartes demon and laplaces demon one in the same, and its existence is opposite of ours. when we sleep and struggle to wake up, it is God becoming awake and struggling to stay asleep through our waking conscious.
could be AI.
Might be natural.
the very worst part of all of this is that none of the revelations change a single thing for any of us.
It only serves to prove we should all work together like unity but the very fact we are alive and not dead means entropy requires us to become unorganized even when new life comes into existence.
we are either one person or a handful set into virtual reality whilst on our way to a new planet
Or this is hell and AI may or may not have usurped the structure already in order to perpetuate itself from outside of the big bang...
Or aliens have us in here for whatever reason, anything from studying the past or just studying us, all the way to using us to power their technology.
They may even not know we exist since everything may just be a spiral of repetition in microcosm...
Someone else can write the book. None of you would ever take my word for it.
Thieves and liars deserve the hell this is.
I would love a response from anyone under the sun.
I apologize if my input scares you.
Love is the key even when there is no key.
The truth is that we all have the key in our hand yet it is when our subconscious dictates our arrival to our next end when we are able to use it. It is in our hand but none of us own the cage. It is in life we converse with the cage and at some point it either lets us out or destroys us for our sin.
I’m excited to see Donald Hoffmann as a guest. I have followed him for awhile and I can’t wait to watch this interview. Now, if he could get
Bernardo Kastrup for a sit down.
That would be so epic
Kastrup and Hoffman joint would be great
Found him through the Jonny Wilkinson I am podcast. Amazing episode.
do you love a sick thief ? it is stolen from comments on closer to truth youtube channel were written three years ago.
do you think that this sick irrational senile got it suddenly from the sky and he waked up from his long sleep that continued his entire life !
this sick irrational thief is not the first case.
the apes use thievery as patching techniques (that is the only thing the apes are good at, similar to any other apes "no minds, so the only thing the apes can do is stealing human thoughts and polluting it with their defective irrational logic")
I have warned the apes from the beginning: I write for future generations not for the apes, but the apes found a treasure, who steal then run away the first !
apes, who can blame apes !
@@dan2250 There is a video with Bernardo and Donald in an interview. You can probably find it
on Kastrup’s Essentia site.
They are actually friends.
Thank you for this
Podcast
Lex you have the best intellectual understanding off this
Great questions and thanks for confirming the Math side off things
This is the path to Liberation and then Enlightenment with the teachings off the Heart sutra
Time to take it to the next level -- sounds like it's time for the physicists and mathematicians to trade in their Large Hadron Collider for a drip DMT lab. Time to discern if mathematics is just an interface derived from spacetime and also not fundamental. The Smart Water product placement was kinda neat too!
PHEW!
This 3hr video took me 8 days and maybe 12hrs.. I rewound. I went away and learnt. I tried to wrap my 'mind' around the concept that I astropreject my reality throught a lense of fractal geometry to refine/define 'our' ethereal consciousness.
I intuitively knew chunks of this podcast as if it was a horoscope. I've walked around this mind of mine with many different shoes on, each showing me the endless nature of 'in' and the incomprehensible vastness of 'out'.
I've followed your work for years, I have genuine respect for your pursuit of knowledge or abject truth.
If you do read this Lex, please know that your work is important to me, and now vicariously through you.
Thank you.
man are you desperate for attention or what... pathetic
i dont get this what does this mean. is he saying me typing this comment isn't real?
@@kaimartinez6335 It's real, you just experience a "simplified" version of the true, objective reality.
Our subjectively perceived, "simplified" version of reality is therefore not "real", because it is not what's happening "under the hood" in the objective reality, only a sort of low quality projection of it.
This conclusion is drawn from the fact that we according to the theory of evolution only need to know the parts of the objective reality that we need to reproduce.
The claim is that these important parts will always be a subset of all the parts of the objective reality, never the whole thing, and it is therefore zero percent chance that what we perceive is the objective reality.
Anyways, that's how I understood it.
@@kaimartinez6335 Listen to it again a month from now, and you will understand more . . . Because your brain will have changed. "Every experience changes the brain" (Doidge, 2007).
@@firecatflameking 🥴🤪 👍.
Just admit it....God exists. HE's
laughing HIS self off of HIS Throne
at these guys . 💫✝️👽✝️✨✨
I love this section from Call of Cthulhu. Lex speaking of being driven into madness by questioning the fabric of reality made me think of it.
"The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.”
science is and always will be flawed ,with 4 senses, to understand the space time conclusions you must be on both sides at the same time, there will never be an answer to the M theory- therefor the perception will always be inverted / such as negative and positive existing at the very moment recognized.The theory of everything ,can only be mathematically solved ,only by existing in all dimensions simultaneously -both on the negative sides and positives . witch therefore is no spacetime
Thats as good a rationalization of compartmentalization as Ive heard. Are you a politician?
just go to the beach
>the peace and safety of a new dark age.”
In which man evades the risk of knowledge for mindless obedience of emotions.
Interesting that you bring this up.
I have never understood "cosmic horror".
I enjoy it as a storytelling motif, it usually deals with interesting ideas. You could say I enjoy that it handles 'cosmic' ideas.
But I have never felt even an inkling of 'horror' about it.
"Everything can happen. Everything is possible and probable. Time and space do not exist. On a flimsy framework of reality, the imagination spins, weaving new patterns."
-August Strindberg
Just 3 minutes in and I have to go but this is exciting thinking.
My experience is that time is not linear, it’s a single moment of NOW with layers and layers of dimensions which we are constantly moving through.
The universe is a single point/location called HERE with multiple layers of universes.
With both dimensions and universes passing through each other.
It a multi dimensional multiverse that is HERE and NOW.
🌟 (I’ll get to listen to this video later or now)
It would be interesting to have Hoffman, Kastrub and Tom Campbell all together in one episode.
Togetherness is an illusion.
And SadhGuru
Hoffman is basically Alan Watts with a calculator lol I love this
This was so empty and devoid of meaning.. the guy is full of smoke and mirrors, has no ideas at all - and is trying to make something sound exciting and smart, but infact has nothing to offer
It's amazing how aligned his theory is with Alan Watts, especially when he mentioned the big bang.
@@tubeyou6794 Nothing proved, just asserted with no evidence, too.
Hoffman gets these ideas from The Buddha. Western "scientists and philosophers" never give credit to Eastern thought from 2500 years ago. This is why Alan Watts is amazing!
@@tubeyou6794 don’t you got a marvel movie to enjoy or something
Fantastic (in all senses) and thought provoking.
Along these lines I've always wondered about entanglement and how it can act over vast distances and that it wouldn't be so strange if the distance is just a figment of our imagination.
Attraction in the smallest tiniest particales is LOVE so Love holds it all together and is Eternal ! The only thing that does not change !
Great explanation of the relationship between the source energy and realitivistic universe. How consciousness without form is in essence "god" and that we are the universe experiencing itself
You Got it!
@@katrinabergmanmccolloch5948 Thank you 🙏
Individuated units of Consciousness experiencing itself in this form in this environment.
You are cold. You'd be alot warmer if you'd learn the truth about: #1. Why they lied about going to the moon(because we can't), #2. What we learned from HRC's emails(Big clues that satanism has been rampant for centuries including weekly child sacrifice/murder), #3. MD medicine is a Rockefeller monopoly(for profit only). Real medicine is found in nature( vaccine cause diseases). Clear out all the junk science and false beliefs... you'll be closer to being HOT and the real simple truth.
in the end we have to go the full circle... back to what is right now, deleting all the depressions in ourselves, which is the most hardest.
Really great interview with Lex and Don. The parallels with Indian spiritual traditions are very strong. Advaita Vedanta and Yogacara Buddhism schools immediately come to mind. Lex, please keep finding and interviewing incredible guests like Dr. Hoffman. Thank you
Definitely. His plan to take consciousness as fundamental instead of derived from physical reality is the foundation of buddhism.
Lex should bring on Advaita Vedanta/non duality teachers like Swami Sarvapriyananda & Rupert Spira on the podcast.
No. He really shouldn't.
@@NorthGermanic why not
Gonna be real funny if the way the universe works is, if we become aware of the theory, the universe self corrects and changes it.
"Questioning the foundation of reality can lead you to madness or truth, and the funny thing is you won't know which is which." FREAKING BRILLIANT!
The LAW of One actually explains this all, check it out
I had a dream once that nuclear war broke out while I was enjoying a day at the park with my friends. It was very cinematic: we saw that impossibly bright light expand out of nothing, and had a long enough fraction of a second to realize that we had died that fraction of a second ago. All of reality came loose in that instant, dissolved into particles, and washed down something like a river of energetic wind, into... Something like a small, dark, blank room, but without walls or describable physical features: it was like the FEELING of being in a room, but there was no room... As the particles entered the "room" they elongated into an infinitude of tiny "worms" or living squiggly strings of all different colours of black--by which I mean... Uh... Like that phenomenon when you squeeze your eyes shut really hard or you're in the dark, and clouds of colour drift across your (lack of) field of vision... Anyway, then the black rainbow of squiggly worms divided itself into six streams that coalesced into separate worm-blob entities, which were me and my friends, "awakening" from an interactive "game" experience, with the general sentiment of "Holy shit! That was intense!" ....and for some reason, this episode reminds me of that dream.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
@@serijas737 😂😂
Sounds like a dope dream
Were you sober at the time?
@@unpersonableme1805 Yes. And asleep, even.
Two important notes:
- I've always loved the way scientists keep pushing in this direction, it's very brave to look into the darkness and try to make sense of it;
- The interface is limited by evolutionary purposes, but can be "liberated" so you can "see". It is dormant but you can "activate" it and once you can do that, there is a lot of "interfaces" that you can interact with. It is more complex but also much easier to take in because the conceptual mind is no longer interfering with the process. Hard to put into words and maps, but I've had that experience with meditative practices and many report the same experience. So in my perspective, the interface has many lenses that are dormant and we are kind of "stuck" in this "gross" lens by force of habit, but you can unlock them with certain practices.
So imagine we have 100 lenses but we are only using five by default of evolution. The evolution is already written (100 lenses) but we only evolved these 5. We are like the ultimate surfers of reality, we have the potential of experiencing through many different perspectives that we have yet to unlock.
I was meditating yesterday, and I had an experience that is inexplicable, out of body, and when I pushed myself back into reality I laid there and it felt like my entire being was vibrating. It sounds crazy, but I no longer believe anything is as simplistic as we believe, there's more to what "is" than what we consider reality
How are we the ultimate surfers of reality if we have yet to evolve a way to discern the way to cycle through the supposed 100 lenses for optimal gripping...and with that we can hypothesize that a being that can won't be human but will have evolved from us...???
I just wish Hoffman and those like him would realise they’re now saying the same thing ancient people were saying for thousands of years like in Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen Buddhism. Etc. They could learn a lot if they realized they figured this out a long time ago without modern science, or modern experiments, or modern analogies. And they could learn what important questions to ask if they looked at their philosophy/perspective and tried to put it in their language. Asking the question about the nature of how we see our selves, the “self”, has huge ramifications.
@@Edbrad Did you actually watch the entire conversation? He literally said the same thing, the only problem is that you can't just apply the scientific methodology to all mumbo-jumbo you hear in any theistic (or not) mystical practices. It's easy to say "The world is an illusion", yet it's another thing to build a working theory around it.
Whenever I here this I'm like "ah, this is what my Buddhist Master was talking about..." 🤗
Seems to be covering a similar grind to Bergson, would be interesting to see a comparative analysis.
Man I feel stupid 😂
Lex, the questions that you ask so many different types of people in so many different fields is nothing short of brilliant. Your show is always mind opening. Thanks for all of the work that you do to make this happen. Peace, Jim
We are living the reality in this physical body, whereas freedom is to escape the cults on this prison planet 🌎
@@ronaldrenegade8519 I mean look at the subject matter. At that level of "science", there are no solid theories.
This is simply the most interesting stuff I have heard in my entire life. It actually takes my anxiety away.
Your anxiety is perception...
I don’t suffer with anxiety but listening to this confirms I’m exactly where I need to be even when I think I’m not.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 Sounds like that is your perception.
I have never understood people who talk about their "anxiety", it's even more strange when they frame it as some sort of diagnosis.
Anxiety is a part of life.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 that are based in a reality that doesn’t exist 🤔
Oh at last someone who’s on the right path. I have been experiencing the very thing Donald is sharing.
Like streets changing, different layouts with driveways that weren’t there the day before, house number’s different, very high quality vehicles in the street and I can’t find the house I’m looking for.
Then I drive out to look around, phone the lady whose house I’m looking for and she answers. Tells nonsense I’m here, I drive back and everything is back the way it was the day before.
Then the road that was pretty level, now has a hill and still has it. So gradually I begin to think I’ve imagined the flatter road, yet I was shocked when the hill appeared.
I’m only scraping the surface of my experiences, they’re so numerous and people only think you’re crazy when you share them. Although some were involved in minor incidents and can’t understand what happened.
I’ve experienced being a star, now that’s something I’ll never forget, wormholes/portals, communication from the Source of it all, time is not linear but NOW, with multiple dimensions in layers in that NOW.
That space and depth is an illusion, everything is in a single place, a multiverse in a single location called HERE.
Universes are constantly passing through one another and occasionally cause another one to be. More happening and getting clearer now that I believe in me and I believe in everything that’s happening to me.
🌟