USTA 4.0 vs USTA 4.5 [Doubles]
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- čas přidán 8. 02. 2021
- USTA 4.0 vs 4.5: Blue team plays on a USTA 4.0 team which won the city in 2020 and have advanced to State playoffs. They were 8-1 in 2020.
Players on the black team play for two different USTA 4.5 teams. One of the players is 11-2 in 2020 and currently in the city playoffs. The other player's team did not qualify for playoffs this time (2020).
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If you don't get passed downline at least 5-10 times in dubs, you aren't poaching enough. Server's partner needs to be way more aggressive at net and take more chances poaching returns. Makes it less predictable for the returner, makes the returner change direction over the highest part of the net, and adds more pressure to the returner. You just need to get comfortable knowing you're going to get passed up the line a handful of times. This isn't professional advice, I'm also a 4.0 lol so take it for what you will.
Thank you for sharing. I have heard that also before. I struggle with it too. However, I never hear anyone say that they lost a doubles match because they were too aggressive. It's usually the other way around - didn't poach enough.
@@TennisTrollChannel Thanks for the great content as always. Just realized I hadn't subscribed but just remedied that!
Watching myself - it’s a completely different view. I always assume I’m following the ball - but this shows I’m basically eliminating myself from a ton of points and easy balls.
@@josepho41483 I kind of agree but for myself. Letting balls go within arms reach because I’m not aggressive enough. Poaching will do more than putting away a ball, it will put doubt in the returners head causing more errors. Maybe get back to running some more plays. This would have been a good match for it since it was exhibition.
You hit the nail on the head. Even if you poach only one out of ten times, but you FAKE poaching a lot, you will draw errors. It's usually best to poach on the first point of the match where you play the net. Even if the opponent beats you down the line, you sent a message that will reverberate throughout the match. On the second point, try to look ambitious, then FAKE a poach, and they will hit it right at you 90% of the time. All those fakes and stares get in their head and sap their confidence, assuming you do a decent job on the volleys. Intimidation is a big factor in doubles.
Another piece of advice is changing strategies. If they win a set, it's sometimes best to change defensive sides with your opponent, just to give them a different look. It's also good to change from one-up-one back defense to the two-at-the-baseline position. Even tow-back on offense can be the best option. Vary your returns...crosscourt, right at the net man, lob the net man. If you are going to drill the net man, have your partner play back at the baseline with you.
Yay! It’s here! Thanks for the feature, TTC!
Thank you for playing an awesome match for our viewers to enjoy.
couple things i noticed. I am a former college player and current 5.0 doubles player. Way too many balls made it down the middle of the court; this means the net person was too worried about getting beat down the line. You don't have to be sitting on the line to guard it but merely in position to get to a ball hit down the line; this is a very common mistake. This can also be seen when the net person is at the net while their partner is serving and running to the alley and leaving the middle completely open. The net person has one job and that is to prevent the ball from going down the middle! And unfortunately no one did a very good job of that. Watch the pros see how often that ball goes down the middle on the return...... not very often. Way too often people were out of position on the court. It seemed like the net mans first move while serving was to always cover the alley... this left the middle open constantly on the return and makes it almost impossible to poach. 1. Need to move as a team; someone should always be in position to get to a ball hit down the middle and you should never get pulled that far apart as it happens quite a bit. Another common mistake is who should hit a ball for example when you are scrambling..... the common mistake is who is in position to hit a better shot. it really should be who will be the least out of position on the court if they go for the ball or who has the fewest steps to get tot the ball. Usually what happens in that case is no matter what shot you hit unless you hit a winner the point is over because the court is wide open because of bad court positioning. And that is really what doubles is all about..... good court positioning and court awareness. 2. When your partner is at the baseline; (more on that) hitting the ball the net person should be at the service line... way too many times were they half way up the box and just begging to become a target in case your partner hits an errant ball that can get picked off. You need to give yourself more time to react to the ball as they say taking away time and space or in this case giving yourself some more. This is also a very common mistake; not moving enough off the ball as a net person. To my next point really good doubles players affect shots off the ball ie when your partner hits a good return you pinch the middle and make them think about what you are going to do as the net person ( are you going to poach, stay put, fake) putting that element of doubt in their mind will earn you a lot of free points They will go for too much on the next ball or volley and just miss it. 3. When poaching you have to go towards the net strap, in other words you have to cut the angle off and go diagonally. You should never go parallel to the net you need to close that time and space and take that time away from your opponents. Think of it as an upside down triangle... take a few steps back in preparation and than get the momentum going forward bc than it is easier to cut that angle off and catch that ball that much higher over the net and cover that space that much faster. 4. Not once did i see a different formation on either team. There was no aussie, or I formation nor did the returning team ever play two back nothing changed. The servers always stood in the same spot, by changing up your serving location you change the angle the ball comes in and you give them different looks; way too often this is ignored. Also way too often did people try and blast their through the net team, set them up use balls at their feet to make them hit up than you can have the advantage. Also a lot of missed opportunities for people to get to the net, either by not taking floaters in the air and coming in or if the other team makes the mistake of hitting the ball to the net man that is your que to get to the net. I can go on all day about doubles strategy but I think are the most important observations I can make.
This is good info for all of us. Thank you for sharing. Poaching towards the net strap is important. Most of us tend to go left or right, but in actuality we need to move at an angle. I like your idea in giving the returnees different looks when at net. You summed up the net person’s role in a simple sentence- keep balls away from the middle. I have to remember this. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and suggestions.
@@TennisTrollChannel i can talk doubles strategy all day lol. It is all about problem solving and setting up your partner for success, playing smart and the percentages and applying pressure; especially off the ball that is what the really good doubles players do they put doubt in your opponents minds and disrupt their games, timing, confidence etc.
Real fun to watch for sure. Thanks to the players and TTC for the content! Cheers.
Good match! Cool to see some doubles!
Always good to play some doubles matches!!
Good match, thanks for showing some doubles.
Yup doubles is underrated. Quick paced and different aspects of the game!
Vic Braden said it best: All things being equal, the strongest position is two players at the net, the second strongest position is both players back at the baseline, and the weakest position is one player up and one player back. Yet both teams played in the weak position for 90% of the time or more. I see this lots of places. It has become standard practice...probably because of the ability to hit hard ground strokes consistently with the new technology (new to me, since I'm old, anyway...LOL) But the best players still get to the net....or stay back and drill and lob. One is an offensive position, the other is a defensive position. The staggered formation (one up and one back) is neither defensive nor offensive. It's just......confused. I noticed a lot of missed volleys...maybe it was windy. Even a little wind can do that. Playing "Two back" makes it a lot tougher for the opponent to put the volleys away., and sets them up for the lob.....If it's a good lob, the lobbing team can move in to the net. If the volley skills are weak, try playing two back. Thanks for the match...it was fun to watch...better than the Australian Open! And chip and charge when the opponent hits a second serve! I did see some good passing shots....
Excellent doubles points. Thank you for sharing. I think two back is more ideal when returning serve. When both are serving, I would think one at net is better as the person at net may get an easy volley off the return. However, you is correct - two at net is best, but serving and volleying is tough. However, the best doubles players tend to do that often. When playing doubles, I prefer my opponents be one at net and one back as you say. Both at net can be intimidating.
@@TennisTrollChannel Two back on defense is best, but in the early 2000s, two pro women whose names I can't recall (both had Spanish names) won five consecutive doubles titles playing two back on offense AND defense. I guess they had some pretty good topspin lobs......The preferred strategy is coming in behind your serve, and looking for a ball you can volley at the short man's feet (like The Bryan's did). But if your opponent has a great return, you're blowing your volleys, or they are lobbing you really well, then Plan B is to switch to a two back strategy and see if you can beat them with groundies and lobs, or coming in behind a good approach shot. Here's a scenario I've seen repeated over the years: over the years: They broke your partner, and now you're serving. They pound two great shots, and you're down 0-30. You tell you're partner to move back to the baseline with you. You serve a so-so serve....I swear, 60% of the time they will hit the return long...it doesn't make sense...they are returning beautifully, and now they've got the whole court to hit into....but they do it all the time...just hit it long for no apparent reason.....the next guy will usually lose the rally, and you can crawl right back into the set...it somehow messes with their concentration. When you are playing two back, they have to win a long point...just be steady...They also tend to blow overheads more often because there is no short man to pound the ball at. Just keep defending and you will usually be donated a mistake.....
@@TennisTrollChannel I was wrong about the gals who won the five slams in a row...they won four out of five, and eight all together...Paolo Suarez and Virginia Ruano Pacual...playing two back on offense and defense.....
@@joemarshall4226 I did try 2 back once when I was serving. Playing with Wannabe Pro in a playoff match and I hadn’t held through second set. Switch to 2 back and held every time and won. I forgot about that strategy. May need to try again. Thank you for the reminder.
@@joemarshall4226 I’ll see if I can find some CZcams videos of them. Be cool to see how they implement 2 back strategy as it’s rarely discussed or seen I think.
Grey shirt's serve looks painful
Fun match, what a grind.. love see'n some dubs.
Thank you for the feedback. Currently editing mixed doubles so there is more coming.
Hi Tennis Troll,
I expected to see higher level tennis when reading the title. Singel matches on USTA 4.5 is much higher quality then this one.
The combination of early mistakes and very low pace makes it less fun to watch.
I didnt count unforced errors or winners, I looked at easy mistakes and pace at first, then deciding to count.
17% of the points consist of 5 shots or more over the net. 68% of the points is 3 shots or less over the net. The combination of that and the low pace dont know what to think about USTA rating, are you guys more focused on the rating then playing good tennis? I imagine two of MEP being 7.0 in doubles? :D
Karl you should come play us, and see what the camera does for “low pace” :)
One of the guys on the 4.5 team shown is 11-1 at 4.5.
Deleted previous comment- meant for another video. Mix up. One more point I like to share- it appears you is wanting to see rallies in doubles if I read comment correctly. In dubs, rallies are at a minimum it’s aggressive tennis. 2 MEPs on a team together would be 9.0.
@@josepho41483 i’am pretty shure you take single matches more serious, and no one of you played your best in this one. It looks like you are playing 25% of your potential. USTA rating before this video is unnecessary since you dont’t take it 100%
@@allemyr we are all friends. This is a scrimmage.
Looking back at your partner as he gets a ball wastes a lot of time. If your partner is solid he’s going go cross court or to the correct place most times. You need to judge the quality the opponents shot and understand what your partner can do with it. If you expect and offense shot by your partner then showing line but taking middle is best place to be. Be aggressive is the idea at net and to get 2 to the net is BEST. Serve and volley more.
Pretty good play except for net play. 9/10 points at net were lost.
I was going to say, 4.0 vs 4.0 doubles teams.. But then realized, the two "4.5" players(btw, I had to read TennisTrolls description, to know who was who. The low level(or even could be high level), "4.5" players simply don't know how to play doubles. So this is why this was clearly a 4.0 vs. 4.0 doubles match. A true 4.5 doubles team that played doubles together competitively for USTA would CRUSH either of these teams 2-1, if they were lucky to get those 3 games. haha U can tell they all play singes, as no one on the court EVER caught the ball EARLY on a volley, all just sat there and waited until it was dipping to their knees, soo bad. haha These matches always makes me feel that the skills I have built are SOO worth it! haha Oh, last thing I noticed, no one on this court had more than a weak 4.0 level serve.
Believe the 4.0 are undefeated in dubs and the 4.5 players play mostly dubs but different teams. One of the 4.5 players was 8-1 in dubs for league matches.
FYI one of the 4.5 players played D1 at Georgia Tech, and routinely serves over 115mph. The camera doesn't necessarily show that speed, but I promise you it is very real. My serve is absolutely a 4.0 serve no argument there - but the same just isnt true all around
guy in dark blue shirt rolling his eyes on partners error after sucking the whole match himself = worst partner to have
The blue sweatshirt 4.0 player is pretty good. He will probably get moved up soon.
I agree. They are a good team. Think both will bump up in 2022 (think ratings are frozen for 2021).
TennisTroll, was it you playing at the nearby court, with that orange shirt?
That was me.
This is a singles match with guys standing on a wider court , not able to volley.
Ding ding ding!! Guilty as charged! Lol
The white(grey) sweatshirt guy’s serve reminds me of boo’s serve from mario tennis 👻
I am a lefty recovering from shoulder surgery and I learned a bunch from his serve. I can't extend yet so I am trying to find some power with a lower toss.
@@TomRoyce wish you a speedy recovery Tom!
lefty knows exactly where to serve from to attack righty backhands :D
Lefty could also serve from the deuce side in Australian formation, doesn't have to go to his right to recover after the serve.
@@lhslguevara that is a good point but on the deuce side they're probably better off in normal formation because the lefty slice to the T tends to be easier to return "down the line" than cross court especially if the the returner crosses the center service line
This is a good suggestion.
Nice match! Seems like a very even match up. One observation: Lefty was positioned way too close to the net (and also a step too close to the alley) as the server's partner. His opponents could/should have lobbed him constantly on the return and taken the net.
You bring up a good point - where is the optimal location for the net player to stand? I myself is unsure.
@@TennisTrollChannel The standard place is right in the middle of the box, or, if you really retreat well on overheads, a step in front of that. When your opponent serves, take a t-step forward in a direct line to where the returner is going to strike the ball....unless of course, you plan to poach. This will cut down his ability to hit a winner down the line if your partner serves out wide.
What I noticed is that these players returned from a few feet behind the baseline.....Maybe the serves are faster than they look, but experience has taught me that taking those returns INSIDE the baseline (even several feet inside on second serves, especially), and blocking the ball back, is more consistent, more controlled, more difficult to poach, and puts more pressure on the server. It's also easier to lob from inside the baseline, because the ball gets over the net man's head quicker, and makes it difficult for him to retreat for the subsequent overhead. In general, doubles players should play closer to the baseline than singles players. Taking the ball early is key to making it difficult for the opponent to poach.
@@TennisTrollChannel Generally in the middle of the box but show different looks. Stand close to net and then back up or stand by the back service line or close to center line or slide toward the alley and come back. Many variations to give returner different looks. Maybe bait them into a shot. I try to stay in the middle of the box and shade towards the alley on outside balls and may poach on inside balls all the while I work my way up to about 4 feet from the net. If I'm playing folks who like to lob sometimes float back to service line in case I get a shorter one. Lots of options!
@@joemarshall4226 These players serve are effective and quick. I’m convinced the ball looks 20mph slower in video for everyone. I agree with catching returns early, but with serves becoming stronger, it’s tough to do. Navratilova was excellent at chipping early and coming in and she was able to do it with singles and dubs.
@@hochiglenn thank you for the suggestion. Seem like middle of box is ideal. One thing I don’t do is cover ally. Not sure if that’s good or bad but my wingspan and reaction time isn’t long enough to cover both middle and ally. If you play me in dubs, aim for the ally : ]
How many times does gray shirt get beat up the middle because he’s watching his own partner instead of watching for a poach from the net player?
Excellent point as I'm guilty of this too and need to break the habit. Thank you for sharing this. The Bryan brothers are never watching each other hit.
@@TennisTrollChannel Actually, I have to disagree here. The bryan brother's did both depending on the situation.
@@johnnybgood1169 interesting- so my question is when should we glance at partner or is that a bad thing to do which we may all naturally tend to do?
@@TennisTrollChannel if you watch their matches they were giving signs on the return also, so no they never watched each other
@@nobogiedr I’ll have to watch videos on CZcams. It seems at their level, glancing at partner would be detrimental as the shots are moving so fast. It’ll ruin your own reaction times. However it is a natural thing to do but my guess is we shouldn’t.
tennis troll in orange on the next court?
It is. Hitting with one of their teammates and DadBod.