TOS is More Advanced Than We Thought
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2018
- The Original Star Trek Series seems a little primitive by modern standards, but some of its tech is still unexpectedly advanced.
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I completely agree with your assessment of TOS tech. Just take the communicator: it can easily talk to someone in orbit without satellite assistance. Sure, it may be slightly more clunky than the Motorola flip phone, but it can do so much more.
Not too long ago I was discussing with my brother how the movie Alien is actually aging really well. All those big clunky buttons are what you would want on an industrial ship that is travelling huge distances in outer space. You don't want Apple's butterfly keyboard failing on you when you're trying to program a self destruct.
Believe me.. I _love_ ALIEN, as (strangely enough) it had as much influence on me as STAR WARS, even though I never saw it until ALIENS when I was 16. Until then, all I had was the paperback novel, the photo novel and the Heavy Metal comic adaptation and various Starlog and Cinefantastique articles (and the Warren ALIEN magazine).
With that said, ALIEN is pretty typical of most sci-fi up to the 2000s, in that the majority of science fiction are essentially futuristic versions of the present. The tech in ALIEN is laughably outdated, though I can see spacecraft retaining physical buttons (just not to the degree of ALIEN) just because if a touchscreen goes black.. you have no more buttons to press to control your ship traveling millions of miles per second.
TOS communicators still relied on Line of Sight. but had Orbital range, A Starship would still be needed to talk with another Survey Team on the other side of a Planet.
@@markplott4820 Did they ever actually say that in any episode? I don't really recall anyone ever having to talk with someone on the other side of a planet. I do have vague memories of one that opens with landing parties on different parts of a planet, though.......
@@varanid9 - Starfleet communicators operate Diffrently from Radio Transmitters, Communicators can IGNORE Line of Sight Rules, given a Communicator has Transmitter Power / Range. for Personal Communicators its usually Oribital Range only and for Tricorders only in System Range, but Starfleet even had Tactical Long Range communicators (ST:2) that could be used even Inside a Plantoid.
@@TheRealNormanBates I recall hearing somewhere that is was quite difficult to get touch screens to work well in jet fighters so much so that for key systems they have more old fashioned backups on some jets.
So the old screens you see in Alien could be for durability or because they are proof to accidental exposure to vacuum or electrical surges or ambient radiation. They are purposefully a bit crap.
I've chaulked up a lot of the TOS 'chunkiness' as ruggedization and or making a thing the right form factor. Like making the communicator palmale but not so small it's easily lost, or making the big official 'the captain is reading this important communique' tablet big and chunky both so you can't just easily wander off with it, and because it probably does a lot of in unit crypto and or otherwise requires specialized hardware to stand up to the enterprise's weekly trips through hell. You would value your 'the official documentation of the incident where people died/first contact was made/the prime directive got flung out the window' was handled by a robust devise that can take a beating that could theoretically include 'the starship it was on got blown up.''
That's interesting. Like a portable Captain's blackbox.
It could also have to do with the statelyness of acts, that is the reason big fish wear a three piece suit, portfolio and attache to a state meeting in summer when slaks, and a cellphone could do the job more comfortable.
I think the "desktop monitor" is actually a self-contained computer that interfaces with the main computer or isolate itself as needed.
It does seem to function that way.
There's also another possibility to go alongside that. Aesthetics, maybe the Aesthetics of the TOS era were for a relatively primitive look without loss of actual functionality.
Not to mention everything may not be designed base on function. "Black finish, and silver highlights," as Dax said, are just visual design, a style of that era. Certain things may be bulky because of ergonomics or just people people like the way they look. The thick PADD of that era may be easier to handle. The uniforms are impractical, but it may bring comfort for the crew wearing them. The computer monitors may be bulky not just because of the holo-tech, but may be because it is the most stylish center piece in a room before people moved in and make it home. And what's not to say the bulk stores a computer more powerful than our current most advance super computer and it is separated and independent of the ship's main computer core?
Your actually very correct about this. If you reference the Galaxy Class manual, it states the image (let’s say external view) is not actually coming from a camera. It’s all the little external sensors (different from the main dish) that acquire data, converts it then generates an image that simulates what is there. That is how Rikers crew was able to generate a Warbird on the Enterprise view screen in the episode Peak Performance. Logically the internal sensors would perform the same way when performing bridge to bridge communications. And since it’s not a true “picture” it can be moved and also have a three dimensional look to it.
Here's a good example of non-VR 3D projection on a flat surface - it was done 9 years ago. Pretty impressive results - go to about 1 minute in.
czcams.com/video/dUBxHd3bMhg/video.html
I love the TOS tech. It just makes me feel nice.
I love the TOS coloring for the same reason.
TOS is supremely comfy.
The ONLY BEST STAR TREK OUT THERE IS THE ORIGINAL STAR TREK SERIES, nothing else better.
Especially the rocks that fall out of the ?walls? each time there's an explosion.
It makes you feel nice?
Hmmm, naughty!! :-)
Are you touching yourself as well, while watchin' it? :-D
The communicators are another example. I only know off hand from TNG onward, but on TOS do they also let you talk to each other from opposite sides of a planet without any relays and whatnot?
They said communicators use subspace (a plot device to take off the radio comm lag) so it should be as if the planet wasn't even there, and signal would be lost somewhere around a couple AUs since in some cases they have conferences within a star system.
Also the communicators always interpret who you wanna call by just a few words of you and even if you started to talk before you activated the device.
@@braveintofuture - Yeah; though it would have been fun to see Uhura at a deuotronic switchboard, connecting the away team to sickbay...
Kirks communicator is where they got the idea of the flip cell phone from.
Still can't use video though. Okay, this was kind of acceptable in TOS, limited tech and all, but not having the same thing by TNG is just bloody stupid.
One of my biggest complaints of the new Star Treks. They are all retconning the old tech replacing it big touchscreen panels. Problem is, I can walk into my local Mcdonalds and see big 4 foot touchscreens for me to order off of. So the touchscreen doesn't look all that adavnced any more.
@Herbert N
Ocular implants seems sufficiently futuristic
In TOS voice control is much more more advanced and commonly used than in present day. It seems like tactile input and visual output is less important by the time of TOS due to that advancement.
@Herbert N how so?
@Herbert N Echo can barely respond to my requests. The TOS computer at least knows what the user is saying despite the tone in which he says it.
I work with touchscreens at my current job. honestly, a few years of wear or one very overeager person repeatedly slamming the screen to "press" a button and it starts having problems working. I would much rather have physical buttons that can handle the wear and tear, not to mention be easily replaced if they do break, over touch screens any day. Especially if i'm on a space ship where one of those buttons is the shields or weapon systems.
We might also assume that the camera is inside the screen so people can make eye contact while using it for communication. Something that's not common place now (if at all possible yet).
I would say theres a wide array of optical sensors that a computer is able to form a suitable picture out of. Including positioning the participants eyes properly in real time.
well we are talking about technology 300 years more advanced
mooxim there are patents from the big two (Samsung and apple) for sensors like fingerprint and cameras under OLED panels, in essence embedding cameras under screens instead of above or below it in a bezel or notch, so not "300" years advanced, pretty cool and crazy o.o
If the 'camera' is capable of capturing the scene in 3D, and the monitors are capable of displaying the scene from different points of view, it wouldn't really be necessary to assume that the camera is inside the screen for people to make eye contact.
Maybe the blue border is the capture device, scanning from multiple angles to triangulate a 3D image. It would explain why only viewscreens have them.
Remember! Starfleet also has a very diverse set of species serving aboard. Although most are identical to humans from the neck down, not *every* species has human sized and shaped hands and digits! So, the 'clunkyness' of the control panels and buttons and handheld devices may be a 'universal compatibility' design solution by the Federation to ensure everyone can interface with standard equipment comfortably without the need for tailor-making for everyone.
Good point
Great observations!
Another "more advanced than on the surface" tech are the control panels. It would obviously take more than 30 single-function switches/lights for Sulu to pilot the Enterprise, yet he does anyway. This suggests that they are reconfigurable as the user's needs demand and may even be used in conjunction with touch sensitive displays (those shiny black surfaces are everywhere, after all!)
And lets not forget these ships and consoles are made for different beings besides humans
The reason for old fashion switches and buttons give psychological feedback to the user for critical tasks (such as firing phasers). This is the reason that some people have their digital cameras set to make the sound of a mechanical shutter.
@@wpatrickw2012 Pretty much what I had in mind too; the physical buttons are the major "commit" controls.
I can totally see where you are coming from considering how much variation there is in all on screen versions of the Constitution-class, how many refits it’s gone through, and the fact that it was seemingly designed to easily exchange tech on the fly even things as large as the nacelles, bridge module, stardrive section, engineering, deflector dish, and saucer (as we now know from Beyond).
According to the TOS bridge plans, the panels are indeed configurable.
This would be an immense revelation if the panning zoom on the Romulan's face wasn't just a cinematic oversight for dramatic effect.
The usual treatment is that _anything and everything seen on screen_ is canon.
Even if it happens to be a senseless okudagram about Gilligan's island.
The implication here is that the computer is making *artistic* choices about the information it is showing the bridge officers. In this case, it has chosen to hide the face of the Romulan commander so it can dramatically reveal that ... dun dun duuuun ... Romulans look like Vulcans!
@@Foomandoonian Yeah I understand the implication, I'm a really huge Star Trek fan but this is the point at which I just have to remember it's a TV show and that there's no point trying to reason a cinematic oversight into lore. You gotta stop somewhere. Think you can tell by the likes the first comment got that a lot of people think this.
Heh, congratulations on your 36 thumbs-up. I'm not a big fan of overthinking canon either, I just thought it was an amusing way of thinking about that shot.
If you folks aren't in to overthinking cannon, you might be watching the wrong CZcams channel, lol.
Dude, how big is your tv? The view screen in as big as a wall
for real, not a lot of 136 inch screens out there in TV land
in the pilot episode the view screen wasn't very big at all... it was similar to the view screen in AUX Control. which would compare with today's average big screen.. and Sony Corp makes a 100 Inch Screen TV for 60K dollars right now...
DanielRichards644
Also, its not an entertainment system. It takes up space, uses power and serves a specific purpose, so its only going to be as big as it has to be.
Sam - you cab Project a 4K HDR hdtv on a Floor to Ceiling Draper screen that is Retractable. way bigger than 100" Diagonal.
@@DanielRichards644 they used projectors in tos! Notice no line's!
I agree with the screen being 3d. It actually is that way in Star Trek Bridge Crew VR.
In the Kelvin movies and Kurtzman shows, the Viewscreen's a window with graphics overlaid.
In TNG the screen is 3d though not obvious. Usually, it is a direct screen. But for dramatic romulan interactions, they had a side shot of both picard and Tokalok and the curved view screen showed side portrait.
@@BlueSatoshi those graphics, including the space Skype thing, are still functionally identical to how they work in previous Trek media however.
Another way I justify the visual style of the star trek universe ( blocky, clunky computers with simple boring looking consoles) is the fact that this is more or less a military vessel. They aren't going to put in delicate pieces of machinery onto those ships. The equipment on the enterprise (and other star fleet vessels) is designed to withstand combat and it's visual styling reflects that. (just how I see it anyway)
It's also designed for long-term deep space missions, sectors away from the nearest starbase. All the equipment has be either impossible to break and/or easily repaired in-house.
One thing to remember, and this goes for TNGera as well, the Enterprise is a military ship so things have to be designed to withstand that.
The desktops might look bulky but so do those used by military (or even commercial shipping) today. Basically you don’t want to be replicateing a new one every time the ship sakes it off the desk.
Not to mention it was before the replicator was a thing,so if it breaks you either have to go to a base to get another,pull a spare out of stores, or fix it with what you have on the ship. Or just go without what might be important hardware.
No, Starfleet is not a millitary organization.
@@rommdan2716 Starfleet is the military arm of the Federation. They also do other things of course, but that is what they are.
@@billweasley1382 Starfleet is the exploratory arm of the Federation, whose culture has a strong taboo against organized armies, why do you think Picard made fun of Q's military outfit?
Starfleet just fight because it must defend itself.
@@rommdan2716 It's an interesting discussion, but you are just wrong on the facts.
No, I think you're on target with the monitors being more than we think. But the whole blue border-thing is obviously not intentional. Merely cosmetic. I'm sure there was never a meeting where the writers and prop department got together and said, "We need to do a blue border thing for certain monitors...".
It was probably a way to make the overlaying effect easier.
I'm sure you're right, but it's an interesting retcon.
I think the blue boarders were made consistent in the remaster so it probably is intended
Here's a suggestion for the next TOS tech to examine: how advanced are the computers on the Enterprise and how do they stack up to how far computing has come today?
They have 5000 gigaplexos of processing, and 8 jiglaflexes of storage
Data's memory was four quadrillion bits.
@@Rhythmicons that 500TB
The monitors often also show documents as though they were printed on paper. I used to think that wasn't very futuristic. Fast forward many years later and we find out that reading documents on a screen that emits light is straining to the eye and disrupts the brain's ability to create melatonin. That's why the kindle was created- a device that makes the reading of documents look more like they are on paper than on a computer screen. Sometimes what seems not very futuristic, is actually more futuristic than assumed because we don't know what we're going to learn as time moves forward. In TOS they even mention how the lights on the ship dim according to the sunrise and set of earth's sun so the health effects of light are taken into account as far as the technology goes.
I thought for a long time myself that the all the pictures of pretty space art and astronomical photos on the Enterprises bridge, above the main control panels, seemed rather simplistic and not very futuristic at all (and another sign of the low budget the show had when it was on) then many years later I realized that perhaps these could simply be the Enterprises version of desktop images. Perhaps drawn from a mass galaxy wide database of such images. Hey why not?
It's actually a literal "paper" display on some e book devices
There's basically tiny ink capsules in it and when charged with electricity the ink moves to one side of the capsule and all of these create the image
I think it's called e-ink but I could be misremembering
Voice commands to the computers even in TOS see pretty amazing when you think on it.
Voice Recognition has improved a lot nowadays since its inception, but it still doesn't pick up everything you say 100% of the time. Instar Trek, the vocal monitoring for voice rec seems much more advanced
Working... *clicky mechanical noises*
Not to mention the monotonous...halting...voice...used by....computer.
my TESLA responds better than the TNG computer.
Cool. Also the clunky communicators are not cellphones. There are no cell towers on an alien worlds and therefore like satellite phones that can reach 10,000 miles and you can beam up with it.
Preach it! This episode was great. It only take a little imagination and everything from Star Trek is futuristic again. I hadn't thought about the desktop monitors in this way, but it makes total sense. The ones I have thought about are communicators, which can communicate over vast distances, not only without any relays, but in real time. The other is paper. In the first few episodes we see paper being used. But it this really just tree pulp, or is it advanced electronic paper, that is more like a tablet. Also thank you, thank you, thank you for not mentioning Enterprise. Too bad you mentioned JJTrek though.
Paper will probably be with us for a very long time. In the episode "Balance of Terror" there was a bound hardcover book that was a reference for comets in the area. With paper you never have to worry about the power failing.
In voyager they used paper to keep information because an alien species put a virus to wipe certain information the computer and they couldn’t be remembered either
I only ever remember the computer ticker tape in "The Cage". That thing that the yeoman would occasionally give Kirk to sign seemed to be a screen with a stylus.
It was paper :P
I love that real life eventually emulated the computer disks they had in the show. You can see the TOS version of "3-1/2 floppy" disks in that shot with Spock at the desk. I also remember an episode where they were in a planetary library and the content was all on shiny disks that looked just like CD's. It is interesting that both technologies have already come about and been replaced with smaller/faster storage.
The gummy bear buttons on TOS control panels: I've always assumed that they were 3D projections and the panels could be set to 2D. that they give visual and tactile feedback about what they do. In "in a Mirror Darkly", they gave the buttons labels, I reckon these are like LCD diplays on the surface of the button that can update themselves about the button's specific function at any given moment.
I've always thought the gummy bears contained displays too
I think your on to something here I have actually thought about for the longest time myself. I have always believed myself that since all the panels on the bridge are obviously reconfiguable that the "labels" themselves may actually be mini holographic projections that can constantly update themselves as needed. But like you said could be the equivalent of LCD displays. These would be on the buttons on the rounded panels that are constantly flashing on and off.
The technology difference could also be explained by (TOS) the Eugenics war (Khan). They looked a little backwards in "First Contact", which was supposedly during a rebuild of tech and society after the war. You could explain it as a period where they were re-inventing technology. Something like, how we can't go back to the moon just yet because we "lost" some of the technical know-how and would have to re-engineer it. It would also be more practical to make hardened switches for a ship that was designed for combat (against the Romulans, during the Romulan wars) instead of a touch screen, where you'd lose all controls if the screen blew. Later the ship could be upgraded and modded for exploration as they moved farther away from the era of the wars. I wrote a "Time Trek" book that uses things like this to help bring canon together with modern developments, to keep it as real as possible. :-) I even know why the Guardian of Forever started belching time-quakes. :-)
Great insight in to the monitors! I also suspect that proper filming of authentic TOS sets, if done properly, can still make them feel very futuristic. We saw a bit of this in the Mirror Universe episodes of Enterprise.
Yes, and we saw TOS sets in DS9 as well, and no one ever whined about them being dated, or ugly then either.
I agree. I absolutely agree.
For some time now, I've thought that TOS is more advanced that we give it credit for, and that while we don't *see* it per se, I think that the tech we see in things like discovery is actually there.
Things like holographic displays (which, iirc, were included in the TMP bridge concept art) and fancy computer interfaces (LCARS for example).
In the 60s, they just didn't have the means to do such things other than as odd, blinky, meaningless lights. I think that if a lot of that were replaced with things that we can actually see and read, the TOS bridge aesthetic would look simply amazing.
I can imagine displays and interfaces something along the lines of this (czcams.com/video/kCPdmOuzYrM/video.html) being grafted on to the TOS bridge set.
The TMP bridge could stand something similar. Yes, I know they kinda did it for the ending of trek 4, but that was a much more drastic change. I'm talking about literally dropping the new panels etc in to the existing set, without dramatically changing the lighting or character of the set.
I think the TOS Enterprise was a more bare bones star ship, practical for the most part. Nothing but the spartan basics, so in my mind the wouldn't need the latest tech, just the necessary stuff.
Benjamin Connor Yes. I agree on this point. The Constitution class is just a bare bones starship. It was never meant to be a showcase for latest Federation tech since these ships often encountered combat situations. Everything needed to be overbuilt for long duration missions with little resupply of spare equipment and parts.
I think the original Enterprise from the original series was absolutely beautiful, not only from an artistic standpoint, but from an engineering viewpoint as well. notice it is in no way aerodynamic. Since space is a vacuum, there is not need for an aerodynamic vessel, like later versions. It's beauty is in it's simplicity. I have a model of it on my desk. I have no desire to have models of any other Star Trek ships. Star Trek is science fiction. Something like Star Wars is pure fantasy, with not even a pretense of science. The sets and props on Star Trek TOS were well thought out. There was actual science behind them. While it is true that TNG made the technology much easier to understand, and went into much greater detail, actually based on scientific fact and theory, the Enterprise D looked more like a comic book ship than the original. It was unnecessarily overstyled. As an engineer, I prefer function over form.
Gerald Scott
Does that include 'GNDN' Jeffries tubes? ;]
I believe the GNDN tubes were in engineering. The Jeffries tubes were crawl spaces throughout the ship. They were named after Matt Jeffries, who designed the original Enterprise
Gerald Scott
Apparently my attempt at humor was lost on the engineer.
I think you're right about the view screen.
Some people say that the communicator was the first time we saw a cell phone.
But our smart phones, which are kinda like tricorders and cell phones rolled into one, are light years less advanced.
Our cell phones depend on satelites. Where as the communicators on Star Trek are stand alone devices with a much longer range than a walkie talkie. You don't need the Enterprise around for members of the crew to be communicating to one another on differentsides of a planet.
It's an interesting notion. It's important to remember that in the 60's we were still in the era of the mainframe. Even the concept of personal computers just didn't exist even in the mind of fantasy. The notion of "flimsy" tech would have seemed illogical and so things may appear more bulky because of that. Plot device tech (like transporters) aside, the level of tech predicted in the series is at the minimum early 21st century devices (Uhura routinely used what would be a Bluetooth earpiece, for example) and in the case of the medical devices, probably a century more advanced (there is no way we can remote sense bio-metric things like blood pressure at this point). Calling the screens "holographic" might be a bit of a stretch, because we never see an image appear in front of the screen as would be possible with a true holographic projector, but having a 3D imaging system that was somewhat holographic in design would definitely be an interesting notion. As others have pointed out on CZcams the original screen ratio of televisions tended to yield a lot of "closeup" photography. In many ways the screens are typical of that philosophy as well, which would generally produce different requirements than the wide screen "panoramic" approach we tend to do today. It's not a difference in tech but a different way of filtering out what is important in a view screen.
"Even the concept of personal computers just didn't exist even in the mind of fantasy." Beg to differ. "A Logic Named Joe" is a short story from 1946 that predicted networked personal computers. Alan Kay proposed the Dynabook in 1968 that was basically a tablet computer. And given that the Kenbak-1, the first personal computer, came out in 1970, clearly the idea was out there, in real life and not just fantasy.
there was a flat screen monitor in another episode I remember.. it was super thin.. in someones living room.. I forget which one it was though.
Yes but that technology was MUCH more advanced than regular humans had achieved at that point ... remember Flint was immortal and a genius.
Even though Flint's viewscreen was flat, it likely had holographic imagery as well, explaining why Kirk and Spock were amazed by it.
Absolutely correct. That might explain where the shows go, to get from DSC to TOS. They replace the windows with View Screens, and keep the bridge on the top of the ship for heat dissipation for the new Duotronic Equipment (whereas I postulate that in Enterprise and Discovery, they are still using Electronics)
The reason TOS instruments etc. don't seem futuristic (anymore) has more to do with their size, appearance, form, and not so much with their actual functionality.
Agreed. 99% of that stuff would be revolutionary in today's world.
True. Like the silly looking communicators they use. They can contact a ship several astronomical units away.
That's some serious signal strength.
@@jonnekallu1627 The signal is FTL. That's serious!
Why? Everything is getting clunkier today. My PS5 is twice the size of my PS4 Pro. My new TV is just as heavy as my 10 year old TV. My new iPhone is literally the biggest, heaviest phone I’ve ever had in my life, especially compared to the pre-smartphone flip phones. The Gameboy was smaller than the DS which was smaller than the Switch. The last PC I owned was the same size and weight as the PC I had in high school.
The components in tech might be getting smaller and lighter every year, but technology is growing in size if anything. It’s definitely not getting smaller.
THANK YOU- 100% agree. KEEP this series going, I will post it to the Discovery people. I would love for you to cover the jewel glowy buttons too... to my way of thinking these are touch sensitive and vulcan tech as we see them on Enterprise exclusively on Vulcan ships. Perhaps the reason for the tactile buttons was to have a more reliable interface during combat, it's harder to hit a touch screen when ship is shaking.
I also noticed Spock using motion hand gestures in The Cage Pilot and screens reacted to that. Discovery really messed up on missing the chance to re-imagine tos tech in a new way,
Your conjecture makes a great deal of sense. It could also be that the desktop units are also iMac-style supercomputers, capable of a variety of functions that we early-21st century mortals haven't even dreamed of yet.
One theory I have about most Starfleet-issue equipment seen in TOS is that it is deliberately designed to be very simple in its architecture. Why? Look at "The Galileo Seven", "Friday's Child", "Metamorphosis", "Patterns of Force", etc. The crew (or landing party) is cut off from outside help. The equipment on-hand is either damaged, disassembled, or inadequate for what needs to be done. But the equipment they improvise with is easily activated/adapted to get the shore party out of a tight fix. That's because the equipment has been designed to be cannibalized/reconfigured to do a variety of things in a pinch. An excellent example is in "Friday's Child", when the Capellans confiscate the landing party's phasers. What do Kirk and Spock do? Use their communicators to make a weapon using sound waves. If the communicator were simply an over glorified cellphone, it wouldn't be able to do that. It also would not be able to communicate over subspace to a planet when the communicator is not even in the star system ("Mudd's Women").
I assume the same is true of everything aboard a starship.
You are correct all Star Trek screens are 3D like looking through a window. Also if you notice in TOS there a few screens around that are widescreen, like the medical bay screens or the top bridge monitors, something people did not even think of back then. I think the future is going to be no TVs or Monitors it will be AR glasses, later contacts, and then eye implants giving you holograms anywhere.
A) Maybe TOS view screens are like panning a panoramic photo w a smartphone we do today. B) Have you visited the full size Star Trek TOS sets in Ticonderoga NY? They're awesome!
I know many people try to fit Trek into being futuristic or an extension of our real world, but I just take the whole thing as a live action comic book reality. It is what it is at this point. The whole world it creates is moving the way the Flash Gordon anyway. May as well just accept it as a campy space navy TV show and enjoy the characters, stories, and themes told within that style.
CosmicApe2
I would hardly call TOS campy - dated, certainly (although the SFX refresh it got via BBC has breathed new life into its watchability) -
But there are few TV shows, then or now, that seriously approach morality and philosophy the way ST:TOS did. That and its boldness in confronting controversial topics of its era put Roddenberry right up there with Rod Serling.
And since it has also inspired many existing technologies and innovations, its very difficult to find any scale of zeerust on it.
Far from being campy, during TOS, the US Navy was interested in seeing if the Enterprise bridge design was applicable to real life ships.
Jefferies' taking a cue from the Navy's operating procedures had a real life reciprocated effect as the Navy took a cue form his bridge design, as he related in 1987, "We had some talks with the U.S. Navy during the third year of STAR TREK and they wanted to know the theory behind the bridge - the slopes and various angles... We explained it to them and I gave them a full-sized vertical section. There is a letter in the file stating that the Navy did use that as a basis for one of their major communications centers." (Cinefantastique, Vol 17 #2, p. 29) On a later occasion he has added, "Gene called me one day and said there were some navy officers that wanted information on the bridge and why we did it the way we did. So they came in - a commander and a lieutenant - and we treated them to lunch, and I showed them the drawing and pulled the blueprints for them, and they got to look at he bridge itself. We got a nice letter the following week thanking us, and about a year later another thank-you letter saying that the information had led to the design of a new master communications center at NAS San Diego. And they would like to invite me down to see it, but unfortunately it was classified. I didn't bother to tell them that I still had an ultra top secret clearance from work I had done when I was in Washington before coming out here!". (Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 11, p. 21)
Your grasp of the geeky nuts-and-bolts of science fiction is a joy to behold. A positive voice rarely heard in the various fandoms. Thanks man.
Other things I really liked about TOS props were the plastic rectangles that were portable data storage. They had to be magnetically read, because there are no conductors to allow static discharge to wipe them out.
They could hold multiple books or detailed Starfleet briefings with audio and video, Intricate computer programs, or even just your lunch order.
The colorful little squares are another example of an evolving interpretation of what they are. In the mid-1960's, cassette tapes were brand new, so most people thought of them as an advanced version of a cassette tape, and in-show they are even referred to as "tapes" at times. However, this can be hand-waved as an example of words changing meaning over time. For example, why is the "dashboard" in your car called a dashboard? Its name comes from the curved board at the front of a buggy that stopped mud from being dashed up on you by the horse. Likewise, "tape" in 23rd century Star Trek could simply be a generic term for any portable datastore device.
Today, I like to think of those squares as the 23rd century version of a USB thumb drive, designed so that there's no "right" way to insert it into a reading slot--just stick it in any ol' way. As a "low capacity" portable device, it's probably at least several terabytes worth of storage.
YES! I've been saying since Into Darkness came out that the reason you could control the camera angle in TOS was because of 3D images.
There was a great scene in an old Star Trek novel (I believe by James Blish) where a cadet (I believe) was asking Uhura why the Enterprise used clunky old printed circuits when ICs were a thing and she explained that she could repair or modify the comms systems as needed with nothing more than a soldering iron.
I have always wondered about the replicators, or food dispensers, or whatever they are in the OS. They seem pretty dated now a days- especially after TNG's replicators.
The foodstuffs may be synthesised in a similar fashion in the "galley" area of each ship - it's just that the fancier 24th Century ships use a closed loop transporter signal to beam the meals in rather than mini-turbolift as it was in Kirk's day...
Given what we see in DSC I think its safe to say that relatively basic replication was possible at the time.
One thing that TNG really nailed was the advent of truly massive data storage amd bandwidth and what that could do for technology. Even 30 years later much of what they created as far future tech is still very far future unlike much of the literal takes on TOS tech.
@@DrewLSsix DSC is a visual reboot so it's not really comparable to TOS. After all, we saw Michael's uniform being assembled molecule by molecule! DSC is a projection of the future from a 2018 perspective, not a 1965 one
DrewLSsix I don't think any of what is seen in Discovery can be applied to our understanding on the Star Trek series.
The don't seem dated NOW, they seem dated in comparison to TNG, which they should. Some say that these are mini turbolifts that take the food all over the ship. I think instead that they are actually highly advanced food 3D printers.
I like to think that the three-sided conference room monitor can either be three flat displays, three 3D displays, or essentially a box that can display a 3D model that you can look in on, and see out through the other sides. Depending on what they need to look at, it can perform all those functions. It's like a miniature holodeck with 3 windows peering in.
Good insight that I hadn't thought of. That said, TOS and TNG did provide prototypes/inspiration of things we use today and some tech from our recent past, like the original Flip Phone, the 3.5" diskette, tablet devices, beam weapons, flat panel displays, notebook computers, Bluetooth, etc.
This is actually rather compelling. Hats off to you.
this same idea (TOS has prototypes of a TNG technology) could be applied to nearly anything in TOS. The tablets, for example, could contain mind-blowingly powerful hardware, but it's so powerful that it can't be downsized any more than it is. The reason tablets and ultrabook laptops are so small today is because their specs are (in general) worse compared to a standard computer tower (because of physical component size, heat emitted, etc). The tablets of the 23rd century could be almost as powerful as larger computers, and as such can't be downsized anymore.
I think it was just the best they could do in that time frame and with a very tight budget. Digital displays already existed but were probably very expensive so instead we got flip over chronometers and buttons and switches. Also, in some of the scenes in the corridors you can see the letters GNDN on some of the equipment on the walls that stands for goes nowhere does nothing....
Another thing to keep in mind is that Trek Tech developed on a different path as it did in our timeline. Our time line and Star Trek's time line break off during the early 60's and went their separate ways. While there are some familiarizes between the two in terms of functionality, Trek's timeline was much more violent. By this time in Trek's history, they would be having WW3 and the Eugenic wars. So the people that made our technology the way it is now could have been killed in one of Trek's many conflicts. Thus why TOS tech looks so different from ours.
J Garza The Eugenic Wars were in the 1990s according to "Space Seed", & consisted of unmodified humanity throwing off militaristic oppression by the generic supermen. Given the timing relevant to events in our timeline, I assume 9/11 never happened in the Trek universe because of the Eugenic Wars. So America took a very different path since the 1990s. Then, references on DS9 suggest economic upheaval as a major contributor to the outbreak of WWIII. By now, the world would be spinning out of control: my explanation for the wildly differing statements of the length of the war-- it depends on what crisis an individual considers the "start".
@@cathyvickers9063 the eugneics war didnt happen but it looks like the upheavals ARE happening
I'm pretty sure the monitors were always intended to be 3D, and I don't think it's even a stretch.
Besides the blue border, I could swear there's a scene in TAS where the three sided monitor in the briefing room has an image of a ship seemingly floating inside the monitor, moving seamlessly behind one of the edges separating the three apparent *screens*
Great video 👍 The idea of holographic screens makes a lot of sense. Love that Retro TOS look!
Another interesting part of TOS is the presence of physical buttons. That’s actually much more realistic on a spaceship than touchscreen and or holo-touchscreen.
In real life in planes tanks and warships, you don’t always get to look at what you are pressing. So it’s good to actually know that you pressed the button down rather than not knowing if you accidentally tapped on it or not.
I love your take on this! Keep up the good work!
I know the viewscreen looks small but it’s estimated to be between 81 and 136 inches, which is bigger than most people’s TVs. It seems the lower end of that range is more likely to be correct. I really wish there was more solid info, the Gizmodo article (where 136 inches comes from) is _seriously_ disputed by the members of TrekBBS.
In the pilot episode, Spock operates the computer and scrolls through some images by making gestures with one hand.
He was actually signalling a crewman (out of frame) to go to the next image: startrekhistory.com/cagepage.html
Very cool video! I had not thought of it that way.
Can you explain why the Edo planet looks exactly like Starfleet Academy ?
Can you explain why the Edo planet and Starfleet Academy looks exactly like a Water Reclamation Plant?
czcams.com/video/0cPJkEpygZY/video.html
@@philipguyott3352 i meant an in universe explanation
Perhaps it was simply a means for quick and easy way to settle various places, using standardized modules and layouts to speed up the construction process. Prefab designs are used in the real world so why not in Star Trek?
@@darkonwolf1974 it wasnt a human colony it was alien
Major Grin it was just one part of the Academy grounds. It may have been modeled after the buildings observed on the Edo home world. Who wouldn’t want to replicate paradise?
Well, the tapes and floppy disk like data cartridges seem like they're pretty old fashioned, but modern computers still use data tapes for their high capacity and relative permanence, and those slim descreet data cartridges could easily be high capacity SSD's.
Ultra high density tape cartridges are actually still in use in data centers for archival storage of massive quantities of data that doesn't need to be accessed too often
This tape can store hundreds of gigabytes per square inch
The biggest issue is read/write speeds, it can take hours to days to completely fill one of them and several minutes at worst to have a file read as it has to find the place on the tape it's stored
How about TOS style duotronic computers and circuitry? When pulled apart it still looks very simplistic with clunky parts and wires dangling everywhere
On the Next Generation episode, "Samaritan Snare" when Geordi is on the Pakled ship the Mondor conducting repairs, he opens a panel on the Mondor's bridge and pulls out what is *CLEARLY* a printed circuit board that just reeks of Earth 1980s technology. :-O
I have heard it argued that more primitive tech may have deliberately been used so that in the unlikely event of a crash onto an inhabited alien world, the prime directive would be less compromised by the use of less advanced technology wherever possible.
*telephony except in TNG they have programmable circuits performing complex tasks and storing huge amounts of data on a cylinder the size of a small tube of lipstick or smaller. The Pakleds used some shitty tech, but those printed circuits do a lot more than we might be thinking. Compare the size of a 21st century board to one from the 80s and you might have them the same size, but there's a lot more functionality packed on our boards than the ones from 1987.
Bot according to some fan sources Duotronic computers are actually capable of recording information at the atomic level. So that would mean that again, all appearances to the contrary, that this technology far in advance of anything today we can possibly imagine.
You have hit on an excellent point! IMO, Trek fans and the public have become jaded with 50 years of exposure. Your explanation of the monitors is a great addition to Treknology. As noted by others, communicators aren't just flip phones, but also tricorders are more advanced than we recognize, so are data storage and power systems. James Dixon did a great essay on warp development in Trek that could be an ancillary to this series. We are on pace with TOS Treknology but as you point out we need to recognize TOS isn't as antiquated as we take for granted.
I come to think the "chunkiness" TOS Tech was like starfeet making it "durable".
Like take your iPad and iPhone and adding OtterBox Defender Series Case to it.
A person seeing a iPad and iPhone in a OtterBox durable case. Not knowing what a iPad and iPhone looks like, would think it was part of the tech and see it as chunky.
That desktop animation was stunning! I'd like to think that this is why HUDs on bridge windows aren't seen outside of pre-TOS media (DSC, USS Kelvin), TOS and later uses more advanced 3D viewscreens.
Though I wouldn't call the communicators "large and boxy", they seem to be a similar size to some smartphones, just thicker. We don't know what other advanced tech is crammed into that device, such as universal translators in DSC.
Well the TOS communicator once opened was voice controlled for the most part and used subspace radio so you could communicate from earth to Mars in real time. They also had a huge range of frequency,power and amplitude.
In the pilot episode Spock stands in front of the view screen and swipes his hand to change images.
Great video. Very interesting concept.
2:30 Man, that was a cool demonstration.
When 'Enterprise' came out with contemporary lcd screens that made it look more futuristic then TOS, my theory was exactly this, that the chunky desktop monitors are more advanced 3D holographic monitors, thus the bulky size.
One of many other issues with Enterprise was how they made the communicators so small as the producers said, we currently have smaller mobiles than the original communicator. But the communicator can communicate with other communicators/ships without relay stations even on the other side of a planet, effortlessly communicate probably all the way to the moon from the earth. For its tech it was already very small.
Whoever or whatever controls those monitors sure loves those dramatic close ups and soap opera lighting.
You really do sci-fan fandom well. I love re-assessing base assumptions to make backstories work, especially when it comes to tech. This one is great. The desktop monitors aren't chunky CRTs, they're really svelte miniature bridge-class view screens! So complex, I may add, that in future ship designs they gave up on them as personal screens, opting for the thinner, simpler, more portable 2D panels we see on the desks in TNG.
This is great, please do more of this :D
Great video. This also solves a lot of problems people have with the holograms on Discovery - they're actually less advanced than the tech showcased in the viewscreens and desktop monitors and what you pointed out from TAS.
more videos like this, please. i've never bought the idea that TOS was "outdated"
That's what I have always tought... Another thing is that bulky size of many electronic devices they use in TOS; I think it's because of the gadgets in question are mostly self contained devices and every screen, communicator and tricorder is tiny super computer with their own power sources and communications tech (aside the fact that the props are more visible to audience)
Great explanation on the desk monitors. I also 'head cannon' the clunky design as being hardened for space missions, like military tech is hardened now.
By far the most advanced Trek tech is the system that reduces overall incoming damage to the ship by redirecting it to individual operations consoles in the bridge. This not only makes ship hulls more durable but the few individual crew casualties from the exploding consoles also serve to remind the bridge crews that war is hell
Very good points. I always liked the look of TOS rather than how Discovery or JJ Abrams trek makes that era look now, I don't think it needs to be that heavily retconned/modernized so much at all, the episode A Mirror Darkly from Enterprise managed to make the classic set not seem _too_ silly and dated and all it took really was better cameras and lighting.
Well, this is cool. Well done!
YES Im not the only one who was thinking about this! The only thing we have that also act this way is on The Nintendo 3DS every time you move the unit around its almost seeing a inner 3D world of the game.
Very nice finally someone thinking about it as future tech not old special effects
Great video. At first I always thought those 1:49 example shots were just ridiculous at the time, but giving them a 3D holographic explanation makes more sense.
Another possible explanation for screen depth: the three dimensions portrayed in the viewscreen are literally displayed with depth, making farther images in the picture deeper into the viewscreen. This requires the screens be thicker so farther backgrounds can be displayed.
I love this take on the Trek Tech! The communicators are still impressive despite their size because they have the power to communicate with ships in orbit WITHOUT the aid of orbital satellites.
Part of the line was cut from the final film, but in the Star Trek IV script there's a bit where they're homing in on the whales' 20th-century radio beacon; Kirk says "put it on screen" and Dr. Taylor says, "how can you do that? It's *radio*"
I find it funny that the Boxy communicators have a range of hundreds of thousands of kms without any satelites its freaking impressive
Very interesting. Good video.
The communicators in ToS are also highly advanced pieces of equipment. Capable of transmitting and receiving audio instantly over vast distances without telecommunication towers or satellites
People can say whatever they want about the communicator, but I'd like to see your cell phone connect with a ship in orbit. Hell, they lose signal strength if you you go into a basement.
I just bought a fridge that looks like an old 1930s one, and it was a common design at the shop where I bought it. The technology inside it is of course modern.
Boxiness retro feel could just be a style in the XXIII century. An in universe designer wouldn't think "yeah, I have to make this thing look futuristic in the eyes of those pre-warp primitives who lived two centuries ago".
Congratulations for getting your channel back again, youtube must really have something against you!
There's also the fact that they can INSTANTLY communicate via the view screens from sometimes light years away. So you can see, without ANY lag, someone you're talking to in another planetary system. They can see you just the same.
The Hylden The movies made it clear there are subspace relay stations that help direct communications. It makes sense a single broadcast source, like a starship, would have a range. Long-distance realtime communications via subspace are probably analogous to using towers & satellites to call someone halfway around the planet.
Good one! Nice catch on the blue boarder! ... Far as communicators .. take into account they allow subspace communication
As I understand it, the reason the Federation uses analog technology in TOS was for security reasons during the three-part cold war with the Klingons and the Romulans.
That's also why none of the buttons are labelled. Each crewman is trained to know what each button is and how to operate it, but there's no labels or instructions anywhere, leaving the operation of the craft unintelligible to any invading party.
Nicely reasoned.
0:14 I LOVE that scene!!!!! Have wished I could do that with troublesome appliances and electronics for years.
So cool, never tought of it in those ways!
Oh my god I love this kind of video, so great
Neat! Love all your videos. Would like to see you do some more on ST: Discovery
All the technology listed could just be explained as a matter of style. Just because it doesn't look aesthetically how we expect, that doesn't mean it's not advanced. Just because it's possible to make smaller and sleeker devices, that doesn't mean they *have* to. It just doesn't match our very current idea of a futuristic aesthetic.
Or it could just be the border of the blue screens (the precursors to green screens) that were used as a reference for when they overlayed the videos in post-production.
Pardon my French (I still don't know why we still say that sometimes when we're about to swear, but...), but that shit you just laid down was pretty damn mind blowing; I never actually thought about the displays like that; hell, I never even noticed the correlation between the main viewer and the desktop monitor screen borders. A parallax-based screen like that would be BOSS!