Rapier vs Longsword
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2021
- join us as we take a look at how the rapier and the longsword fair against each other in combat!
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/ sellswordarts - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I think the difference is when a rapier fencer fights a longsword they don't have to change their style much, but when a longsword fencer fights a rapier, they have to fight significantly differently than when the opponent has a longsword.
I wonder how much difference there is in the edge geometry of a rapier and longsword and how that affects the lethality of the slashing of each
Not necessarily. Longsworders can and often do play in tight with thrusts, disengages, and binds. Almost like two-handed rapier.
The longswords real disadvantage is reach. Sword in one hand just plain reaches out farther, the longsword blade would have to be significantly longer than the rapier blade to even out the difference.
I'm a fan of the longsword but the 2 things I'm taking into account are speed of attack and distance. Unarmored, go for the nearest point first, rapier has a great advantage. But if we're talking armored, it's not going to parry or riposte against an angry man in plate. Even if you land a critical hit, you're probably still seeing your last day. There's good reason that the rapier was never an infantry weapon. I love the tales of Alatriste and the Musketeers but..
so neither is better they are just different and its really up to the actual users skill and profeciency in whatever weapon they choose compared to opponents
Well said!
As with all weapons really
@@bellcross1794 tell that to smallsword vs longsword
Within reason, yes. It's a spectrum really. I wouldn't say all weapons are equal in a comparison like knife vs longsword or knife vs rapier or spoon vs longsword, but those are obviously absurd examples. Once you get to a point where the weapons are of similar length and close enough use, then yes, the wielder becomes much more important than the weapon itself. Like you said it's all down to context.
@@sparrowhawk81 good elaboration!
Excellent video! Having wielded both weapons for more than 25 years I can agree with the fact that much of this does go to the skill levels of the fighters and their ability to adapt to a different fighting style. I've done the "Rapier v Longsword" bit against several Longsword fighters and have won more than lost, but every swordsman that has beaten me has had experience fighting outside the "Longsword v Longsword" paradigm in the past.
i know, ive got 45 years fencing experience under my belt even dabbling in mensur in my youth (i in fact have a very noticeable mensur scar on my cheek), and was asked to do a video for some guy where it was "rapier vs katana" the katana guy had been using it for 4 months, i flat out told the guy "fuck off, if your hiring me to verse a katana, at least get someone as experienced with it as i am with a rapier, are you trying to rig the results, seriously, your insulting both of us and our craft" funny thing was, the katana users grandfather had 58 years experience and was still sharp in the mind and quick in the feet, i know this because when i met the katana guy his grandfather was with him, after i dropped out of the video idea, i ended up sparring with the grandfather for 5 hours, both of us worked up a real sweat, and both of us could barely stand up from exhaustion, the grandfather bowed and said "i have not been this tired out from sparring for at least 40 years, id forgotten what it felt like to need to catch my breath"
conclussion, the video guy i was contacted by was an idiot, he left AFTER i started sparring the katana users grandfather, meaning he saw 2 masters of fairly equal skill sparring and thought "nah, im not filming this" fucking idiot
edit: last time i went on holiday to germany, i found that even though mensur is now banned officially, the scar still carries a lot of respect to them, its seen as a sign of masculinity and toughness, you stood still and let yourself get cut, i get even more respect after i tell them that i in fact won the match that gave me the 4 inch long scar and took my earlobe
"I switched back to point"
"Well, that's because it works"
"Yeah, I know, it works!"
I love the rapier’s with the bowl like guard it’s simple easy to draw ✍️ and seems practical
Yeah I'd say it's pretty even, but one thing I noticed is that the longswordsman started breathing pretty hard earlier which makes sense as it is my understanding that a lot of rapier is conserving energy and longswords you're very active, do I imagine that if a rapier duelist kept the fight going long enough defensively he could take advantage of lapses in the guard caused simply by the longswordsman tiring faster
No real duel would last that long for stamina to be an issue though
I kinda wanna see a series of weird weapon pairings with similar analyses.
I found it interesting how much you spoke about the extra control, of your blade and your opponents, being more important than any extra power in a strike with the longsword.
I was also wondering how mixed up armour could factor into this, does plate armour make it harder to wield a rapier than it does a longsword?
I have held a rapier with a steel gauntlet on. It was easy to do, but rapiers weren't an armored fighting weapon. You might be able to find some older single-hand swords that are more like an arming sword with added hand protection that were still used alongside armor, but rapiers were primarily a civilian/dueling weapon used by unarmored combatants. Also bear in mind the space inside the hilts of modern fencing rapiers don't necessarily match the fit of an actual historical one. I would assume there are different considerations as people buying modern fencing rapiers are probably going to be wearing fairly thick gloves, etc.
I absolutley loved this! I've wanted a video that shows sparring between weapons and has some analysis in it and this ticks all the boxes! +1 sub
Very cool, definitely start switching each other’s weapons part way through to get an understanding of which weapon requires more effort in the fight
Love the stuff you guys do.
Lovely comparison. Thanks for sharing:)
Very interesting video , thanks for making it!
Super interesting video! It seemed to me like while the rapier had more touches, vast majority of them were to the hands. Which is undoubtedly useful, but I feel like this advantage would be significantly diminished if the longsword fighter had gauntlets on, which I am fairly certain were used with a longsword most of the time. Because while the rapier has a round guard, steel gauntlets would be pretty much just as effective, wouldn't they? Even the length of the blade wouldn't be so significant in that case I'd say.
Yeah, but I think they're trying to simulate an unarmored fight. With armour, everything about this would have to be different. thrusts to the chest would be meaningless, for example.
@@jonassanoj3045 the rapier was used in civilian duels
@@alejandrollerena3457 It was used in both civilian (in duels and self defense) and military settings (as a secondary weapon).
The reason why I brought up armour was to respond to Anna's (very valid) point about how the use of gauntlets might have changed the outcome.
You should also remember both of these fellows know they aren't going to be stabbed. Knowing you're not in real danger gives you the courage to stick to theory.
I think in a sporting environment like here, the difference is always less than what skill and having a better/worse day account for. However, if you think about how hesitant you would potentially be to go for deep targets in a real duel, in my opinion that's where the rapier is easily superior. Anyone not crazy with zero to just a few duels under their belt (so most fencers) won't be confident enough to just go for what one could do, but will stay outside of the opponents' range as much as they can and try to score hits on shallow targets with light blade play and that's where a few inches more blade length and better hand protection really shine.
Which also means that one could counter a lot of that advantage by consciously choosing more commited attacks or that someone with more experience and therefore more confidence could negate that altogether. I still think that in most duels, that "feeling the opponent out"-phase would lead to the rapier winning more often than not because in that context it is far easier for a one handed weapon with better hand protection to score cheap shots on hands and forearms of an opponent with less reach and protection.
What about saber with hand cover vs one handed sword without but with buckler?
Sword and buckler is pretty damn good.
Generally sword and buckler. Targeting the hand is a bit hard, and a buckler provides a pretty significant amount of coverage.
Thankd for the video and great master class
I loved the double pun at the end 😂😂
Very good demonstration. Really enjoyed it and kept rewinding to see it in more detail. Though, I'd like to see same weapons but with more angular footwork. Let's say Spanish Destreza for the rapier and Samurai (kenjutsu) style for the long sword 👍🏻
For croise, my understanding is that you would need to remain in blade contact since it is a type of transport. What you demonstrate is an expulsion type of attack au fer, typical of froissement.
This is making me wish I had more time on Rapier. I did Katana and almost all the other variants of Feudal Japanese arms for 6+ years, then Saber for near two years, then Rapier for like 6 months, then Longsword for about 4 years. Ive had a lot of varied experience, I want to do all of these more of course, but even considering the short amount of time I spent on everything else I did not give Saber/Rapier much chance because I was younger and I was more comfortable always maneuvering swords with two hands and wielding a sword with just one hand was always tripping me up, but I’ve always wanted to develop my strengths more and go back to try both Saber and Rapier again
Can the Rapier slash? If so, can a one-handed saber be used in the same way?
Another question, what kind of swords did the Three Musketeers use?
The saber gets much deeper than a rapier due to the curve of the blade, but the rapier can slash. Those injuries can certainly slow the opponent down and make them that much more vulnerable to the speed of the rapier's thrust.
How current is Verdadera Destreza Spanish guide today compared to modern rapier techniques?
2:30
That was beautiful!
I was doing my stuff and I’ve put the video on the background, and when I just stopped doing my stuff, I’ve heard :” mine is longer”. I was like wtf am I watching...??)
Would like to see them play "blade and sorcery" (vr game)
We have live streamed it a few times!
@@SellswordArts oh lol found the channel recently and I will check it out!
It would be interesting to see you two switch weapons after figuring out how to defend and attack against each weapon
I know weapons don’t matter, but what about the HEIGHT of the wielder? I was told that when you have shorter stature, aiming for the legs to cripple the opponent is a good tactic, but would like to hear your view on it.
Legs are almost never a good Target.
Attacking the legs puts your weapon down below the rest of your body, which means that you don't have the means to defend yourself from attacks. You're extremely exposed
Additionally a leg wound on your opponent is not fatal and does not impede them from using the rest of their body, so you might get a touch on their leg but they'll likely get one on your head. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug and your enemy might not even notice that you hit them in the leg, it'll do nothing to stop their incoming attack.
Think of it this way the arm extends from the shoulder, a straight line would be from your shoulder directly to your opponent's shoulder or chest, the head is only slightly above that the stomach slightly below that but once we start lowering further we start to lose distance. The lower you go the more distance you lose. I am a pretty short person, and yet I still mainly aim for the hands head and chest, I very rarely aim for the legs.
@@SellswordArts I see! Thank you for the in depth explanation.
Geysel! Geysel! Geysel!
He's right. Legs are the hardest thing to get to on your opponent and it is very easy for them to shift them out of the way and counter-attack your head. It has happened to me many times. Having said that you may occasionally luck out with a leg strike, but it's not a good tactic. A lot of leg strikes I end up getting are because the person parried badly and directed it into their leg, etc.
An additional point why aiming for the legs is a bad idea is because they can simply move them backwards out of your reach much easier than any other part of the body and can strike while doing so.
22:10 do you mean froissement? I'm from épée and love this move when my opponent expect a beat (batté)
I learn so much from your Videos on Technique joining a HEMA club is not an option for me, I live way back in the mountains of Idaho 100 miles to the nearest city 25 to town, I am a Blacksmith make all of my own blades/ equipment and just want to be proficient. So Thanks for what you do
What sport/group is this under? I've seen and done SCA and fencing, bit this is new
Historical European medieval martial arts, or "hema"
Both HEMA and SCA rapier can allow for this interaction but SCA would probably require the longsword user to be authorised in atleast cut and thrust
How difficult is it to disengage against the longsword when they're doing beats or a crozet? (just asking, not trying to be snarky)
The biggest mistake of rapier fencer could be attempt to play on strong part of blade against the weak part of long sword’s blade. The bigger could be only if he will try to do it again. And another question is why rapier fencer did not used the one of biggest advantages that rapier gives him - the second hand that should be equipped with dagger. Dagger have ultimate blocking ability even against long sword.
Longsword is designed to fight with heavy-medium-ight armored opponent while rapier's function better with light to non-armored person :D
So It's depended the rule of contact, for example, I had practiced kendo for 2 years, if you wanna make a point, you have to do enough power/force in your blowing or thrusting like it's gonna break their armor then harm their bodies inside. But in hema, usually we use tough the opponent and and mark one.
Historical call, rapier is designed mostly in the period that people no longer wear armor and lesser and usually for civic duel, but longsword for early and middle medieval where people wear as much as armor they can afford
Não importa a espada, mas sim a habilidade do guerreiro!
It would be interesting to see a novice try out both swords and see which one was easier to pick up and defend against basic moves
3:33 that's what she said💀
guts vs griffith be like:
Rapier would of course won, because you can have pistol in your left hand, and thats a deal breaker :D
Mpv moment “mine is longer”.
Not much lateral movements or feints, why is that??
Cuts for too slow against the rapier. Normally I would faint more, but against a thrusting heavy weapon, I needed to change my tactics up.
Same thing with lateral movement. My focus was keeping my opponent at the end of my sword, and then moving in once I clear the point
"I can do this all the time" he is barely breathing xD
So what if their both just as skilled fast strong and flexible basically clones of the same person fight and 1 has a rapier and 1 has a long sword
Historically, the fact is that the bastard/longsword cuts a lot better and deeper than a rapier. You can slice with a bastard sword, not so much with a rapier. With an Ottoman-Turkish scimitar, slicing is the only option you have.
Seems you would have to have a longer longsword to compete with the rapier on equal footing. You need to be more skilled to tie with a rapier with a regular longsword. The rapier is harder to defend against overall.
Where do you buy that gear and sword???
If you're looking to get into the sport you'd probably be better off finding a local group
@@jackbrunato8960 yea I gave up looking months ago.
You can say sword and shield too to counter the rapier and buckler.
The length of long sword is historically optimized for battlefield. There is no reason it couldn't be made longer for dueling in a large arena.
Idk, sounds like the rapier needs a buckler combo and ad the dodge skill. Your Mordhau texture pack looks neat tho
Rapier guy here. I do actually know how to fence rapier and buckler.
That's a beautiful longsword!
Well, the rapierist could always use a dagger or buckler in the off-hand, that would change things a bit.
Also, I guess the rapier has some advantages over the longsword in unarmed 1 vs 1 duels anyway. Reach, quickness, not presenting as much of the body as a target, and so on. Using the longsword more horizontally and mainly as a thrusting weapon (while sacrificing a lot of the longswords strengths) is a losing game, as the rapier can do that better. Might work with practice weapons and protecting suits in a non lethal scenario, but would I want to do that in a real fight with sharp weapons and no protection? I think not. I guess the longswords was just not made for this scenario and has other uses.
Rapier is a good pick if you know you will not face any armoured opponents. Wen facing full plate, I'd much rather have a longsword.
@@Veyrah64 Longsword is not great for that either. A pollax or something might do the trick. ;)
@@MH-yp6wg obviously, but we're commenting on a video of a rapier vs longsword... i could say a machine gun would be even better against plate armor :)
@@Veyrah64 Sure, but then again, why take a Rapier to a battlefield where you expect to encounter heavy armor? You would prepare yourself and the longsword is NOT a good weapon against plate.
"Longswords don't lunge"
The crazy things kids say these days...
THANK YOU, this longsword guy is acting like such an arrogant know it all
Los samuráis y los que tenian armadura con mucha desventaja,los primeros por su pobre acero bajo en carbono y su acercamiento sin defensa ,los segundos por escasa movilidad+ cansancio y puntos flacos letales( axilas e ingles)
in my head which i know swords are pritty durable but if i was using a longsword as a random man on the internet. i would be aiming to damage the rapier itself more so then the person probably. use that mass.
thats why i like epee combat only chest and head count as touches, counting feet and fingers is just dumb, in epee you have to be more dedicated with your attacks and arguably more skilled to beat the fencer
You forget that the rapier has a much longer reach than just the length difference of the blade itself , because by thrusting with one hand it is indeed much longer because of the more sideway lunge. ( also depends on the heigth and limb length of the fighter , of course ) Wrist strength plays a role as well. I've fought with both weapons many times ( rapier against longsword and vice versa ) and to me the rapier is superior ( when there is no armor used like in real life )
The problem with that Longsword lunge is that it only will work blind against the Rapier wielder. You try that allowing your opponent to react and he easily swipes your blade to the left and away from your strong side and before you can recover you've taken a thrust to the neck. The last thing you'd see is blood spurting on whatever is behind you as you fell to the ground.
Fencer's reach/arm length matters...just sayin.
2:30 starwars
Excellent👍👍. The rapier fighter should have had a dagger for the open hand, then its equal.
You're not going to outfence the rapier, I wonder how lots of cuts and back cuts would fare
For me long sword should be winning. It's sharp and it also have a point work, and I think it's not easy to block a two ended heavier sword with a pretty light one ended sword.
Post in melee you just don't have blade, so what could you do wen distance is short ?
Es ireal ,los españoles hiban con ropera + daga o capa,si a rs
Im not professional but in my head 1 hand just has more advantage overall in life because it would be easier to carry around, have the ability to use the other hand ect. for a pistol or a shield ect.
If you tell me a 1 handed rapier can hold or go equal to a 2 hand longsword. Then the rapier wins.
I like to think that the small white rectangle on the left is a door, and the two people in the video are in fact giants.
Longsword is equal to rapier 1 on 1. However rapier and dagger.. :)
that is a very short rapier
not really
Rapier is obviously better. Becuase while longswordsman will ahve both hands on his longsword grip, the rapier user will be holding flintlock in the offhand. Duh.
Weird that some people just assume one of the most versatile and generic swords can't beat a stereotypical one-handed thruster.
You can best it with a mace if you know how to fight good enough.
Someone can beat a rapier with a dagger if they are skilled enough. That is obviously an extreme example, but it is absolutely possible.
@Athos Aramis
Overreacting a little bit, aren't we? Is it because I don't hold rapiers in highest reverence?
And if you'd try fighting a rapier with a mace you'd end up stabbed 98 out of 100 times
@@IIKraftI
I'm an occassionally gambling man who likes hammers.
HEMA really won't look good in movies.
No real martial arts would look good in movies if they are using it effectively, combining with the art of choreography however can help (and Adorea Olomouc already proved that for HEMA.)
Thing is you cant parry a sword with a rappier. You can only dodge. But you might be able to parry a stab of a rapier by throwing it off course. So I'd say sword is better. You can both attack and defend. Rapier can't defend.
You can definitely parry a sword with a rapier and the rapier fencer does so in this video. The rapier has no less mass than many other swords.
What the hell are you talking about? You can take any hit with a rapier and you parry with it all the time. The rapier fencer does it in the video.
This is what happens when you stop playing D and D AND HIT THE GYM and pick up a real sword hahaha
The longsword guy is all talk. Good presentation on how they fare against each other but the longsword guy was acting a little sore every time their "cast iron" strategy as a "superior longsword handler" had a visible slight disadvantage. Don't get me wrong it's an even match up and longsword fares well, I just think the wielder is covertly acting like a twat
Cutting doesn’t work with rapier lmao 🤣
You don't always need to cut a man in half. Sometimes it may be enough to cut him so that he can't use his hand, arm or leg anymore. Just facing the constant threat of a cut right across the face alone can get the enemy to change his behavior completely, even if it's not lethal.