Ben Shapiro thinks rap isn't real music. Here's why he's wrong. A link to Part 2 - www.dailymotion.com/video/x7m... Patreon (for support!) - / music_man_mike
When I can think of so many examples off the top of my head that goes against his moronic claim and I'm struggling to think of any that don't, it's embrassessing how confident he is in his total ignorance.
If you just played a G minor chord and let it fade into silence and said "this is a minimalist piece I composed called G Minor Fade", would it be music? There's no melody or rhythm, just harmony. Yet I absolutely think it is music. Therefore rap is music, as is a drum solo for that matter. One criteria for music is enough for something to be music.
So good! This video (esp. Part 2) exposed me to a lot of music I hadn't heard before, and a lot I hadn't heard in years. Also, in addition to BS being ignorant and factually in error, what kind of smug assbutt invites an artist on their show to cheerfully tell them their art isn't valid? And another thing: even if BS's made-up music theorist dad's definition of music were correct, the social, cultural, and aesthetic values of hip hop wouldn't be the least bit diminished, just because it didn't fit in the category called "music" (which, just to be clear, it does, because BS and his made-up dad are wrong).
Brilliant video! I, too, have long grown out of the "Rap isn't REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL MUSIC" snobbery. Though my preference is always with metal, I still greatly appreciate rap musicians for using their cultural roots to express their oppression. Are you familiar with Body Count? Ice T and his band perfectly fuse Rap and Metal, both to express slayer-style horror themes and also real-world oppression. I highly recommend "All Love is Lost (feat. Max Cavalera)" and "No Lives Matter" as prime examples of Body Count's work.
Shapiro is obviously wrong saying that music is only defined by those 3 parameters, but you have to admit that hip hop have largely relied on sampling other's people creations. From funk to jazz, rock to R&B, the musical part of hip hop was "just" mostly musically uneducated people cutting and looping stuff together. The process it's fascinating, and have lead to interesting results, but only in the last 20 years hip hop have been really massively made from scratch like every other music (and it's somehow related to the accessibility of DAWs that makes it way easier for everyone who doesn't know how to play an instrument and/or doesn't know anything about music theory, or collaborating with musicians that comes from other genres to provides the actual music). That's to me is something that puts hip hop apart from everything else. Every time I hear an hip hop song with some orchestration or "played music" behind, I can't help myself to consider it a crossover thing, the joining of two different things rather than the evolution of hip hop itself. Maybe the correct question is: if the process of creation is so different, why trying to fit the parameters of music at all? Why not being its own thing? That could be a real act of emancipation! I also find the pt2 of the video not really convincing, you just list a lot of stuff, not making an argument on why we should consider it on par with other genres (from a musical point of view), but just showing the variety of hip hop itself (plus putting D'Angelo and the whole "soul" movement there is misleading at best) I'm not talking about lyrics here, or the vocal part, just about the music. Coming from the "symmetrical scales" video, good work non that! (sorry for the bad english, I'm from Italy)
Well, to be fair, the criteria were correct. Beat, Harmony, Rhythm, Melody actually so he missed one. Where he is so wrong is in that there is no melody or harmony in rap MUSIC. I'm sure if he had mentioned Beat as well as rhythm he would've had a harder time arguing his point. Also the way he words it is basically that rapping isn't music, which is true, but rap music has a whole music track over which the rhythmic speaking happens. He has to shape the pathway of his statement so precisely to make what he's saying seem likely to be correct
This is not freedom of speech. People like Ben Shapiro gives FOS a bad name. Music is ambiguous. Different genre has different elements; nothing is fixed in music. He should do a ted-talk in Hereticon. Seems like a good avenue for the ignorant and racists.
I've never heard of those three criteria being presented as necessary for music, but as sufficient for music. Looks like the little guy done fucked up necessary and sufficient conditions again. Anyway, if you really wanna fuck with him just hand him the soundtrack for silent hill 3 and ask him which ones are music and which ones aren't.
Ben Shapiro always represents himself as someone that's always right and that knows everything. Finally someone that says what I was thinking all the time: He just talks pseudo-facts and really isn't that smart as he claims to be.
Wasn't there a piece of music that got people so angry that the audience basically broke down the theater when it was performed for the first time? I can't remember at the moment. Anyway, that same piece is now on everybody's classical playlist.
The classical music riot I'd heard about was at the premier of The Rite of Spring, but while googling to remember the name, I came across this article about that one and four others. www.wqxr.org/story/180948-top-five-classical-music-riots/
As a person who rather enjoys hip-hop, I must push back. I don't think hip-hop IS music. Hip-hop is its own thing. It isn't simply rhythmic speaking as Ben says and while it incorporates some aspects of music, it is no more music than data aggregation and analysis is science. They are two different art forms that, while related, are not the same thing.
Michael Rowlands Is he though? He says the case for..., and my view, and the view of my music theorist father is.... And after the clip ends the next thing he says is so tell me why I’m wrong. So it sounds like he is treating this as opinion and thinks other people will have different opinions and that he might be wrong. He didn’t say anywhere this is fact or objective fact.
Ben Shapiro wrong about something? Shocking, truly shocking.
When I can think of so many examples off the top of my head that goes against his moronic claim and I'm struggling to think of any that don't, it's embrassessing how confident he is in his total ignorance.
If you just played a G minor chord and let it fade into silence and said "this is a minimalist piece I composed called G Minor Fade", would it be music? There's no melody or rhythm, just harmony. Yet I absolutely think it is music.
Therefore rap is music, as is a drum solo for that matter. One criteria for music is enough for something to be music.
Also refusing to enjoy hip hop would prevent you from enjoying A Tribe Called Quest, so I'm glad I don't think like that.
So good! This video (esp. Part 2) exposed me to a lot of music I hadn't heard before, and a lot I hadn't heard in years. Also, in addition to BS being ignorant and factually in error, what kind of smug assbutt invites an artist on their show to cheerfully tell them their art isn't valid? And another thing: even if BS's made-up music theorist dad's definition of music were correct, the social, cultural, and aesthetic values of hip hop wouldn't be the least bit diminished, just because it didn't fit in the category called "music" (which, just to be clear, it does, because BS and his made-up dad are wrong).
I'm glad this had value to you! ^.^
Brilliant video! I, too, have long grown out of the "Rap isn't REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL MUSIC" snobbery. Though my preference is always with metal, I still greatly appreciate rap musicians for using their cultural roots to express their oppression. Are you familiar with Body Count? Ice T and his band perfectly fuse Rap and Metal, both to express slayer-style horror themes and also real-world oppression. I highly recommend "All Love is Lost (feat. Max Cavalera)" and "No Lives Matter" as prime examples of Body Count's work.
Shapiro is obviously wrong saying that music is only defined by those 3 parameters, but you have to admit that hip hop have largely relied on sampling other's people creations.
From funk to jazz, rock to R&B, the musical part of hip hop was "just" mostly musically uneducated people cutting and looping stuff together.
The process it's fascinating, and have lead to interesting results, but only in the last 20 years hip hop have been really massively made from scratch like every other music (and it's somehow related to the accessibility of DAWs that makes it way easier for everyone who doesn't know how to play an instrument and/or doesn't know anything about music theory, or collaborating with musicians that comes from other genres to provides the actual music). That's to me is something that puts hip hop apart from everything else.
Every time I hear an hip hop song with some orchestration or "played music" behind, I can't help myself to consider it a crossover thing, the joining of two different things rather than the evolution of hip hop itself.
Maybe the correct question is: if the process of creation is so different, why trying to fit the parameters of music at all? Why not being its own thing?
That could be a real act of emancipation!
I also find the pt2 of the video not really convincing, you just list a lot of stuff, not making an argument on why we should consider it on par with other genres (from a musical point of view), but just showing the variety of hip hop itself (plus putting D'Angelo and the whole "soul" movement there is misleading at best)
I'm not talking about lyrics here, or the vocal part, just about the music.
Coming from the "symmetrical scales" video, good work non that!
(sorry for the bad english, I'm from Italy)
He always comes up with these made up "3 criteria."
Well, to be fair, the criteria were correct. Beat, Harmony, Rhythm, Melody actually so he missed one. Where he is so wrong is in that there is no melody or harmony in rap MUSIC. I'm sure if he had mentioned Beat as well as rhythm he would've had a harder time arguing his point. Also the way he words it is basically that rapping isn't music, which is true, but rap music has a whole music track over which the rhythmic speaking happens. He has to shape the pathway of his statement so precisely to make what he's saying seem likely to be correct
Why would any one take anything Shapiro has to say about music? Or anything for that matter?
For all is faults he is a really good violinist.
Like part 2 a lot. Unfortunately, the response is missing a response, but apart from that it is a great video.
Lol imagine if he responded to me...
Fortunately others did in more detail czcams.com/video/Kr3quGh7pJA/video.html or czcams.com/video/_3utH8Nm_D4/video.html
Hey Mike, do you have a new twitter account??
I do not :(
This is not freedom of speech. People like Ben Shapiro gives FOS a bad name. Music is ambiguous. Different genre has different elements; nothing is fixed in music. He should do a ted-talk in Hereticon. Seems like a good avenue for the ignorant and racists.
Well, it is freedom of speech. But i agree with you that it was pretty ignorant.
Hey Mikey were you in Byron Bay this morning by any chance?
Haha not that I'm aware of... Do I have a doppleganger?
I've never heard of those three criteria being presented as necessary for music, but as sufficient for music. Looks like the little guy done fucked up necessary and sufficient conditions again.
Anyway, if you really wanna fuck with him just hand him the soundtrack for silent hill 3 and ask him which ones are music and which ones aren't.
Ben Shapiro has half the height and half the genius of Tupac and Biggie. He couldn't make anything as inventive as either.
Ben Shapiro always represents himself as someone that's always right and that knows everything. Finally someone that says what I was thinking all the time: He just talks pseudo-facts and really isn't that smart as he claims to be.
hey there!
I agree with the white guy and I love rap
Fantano's been having fun with this idiotic take, so have I.
I only saw the video. What else has he done
Wasn't there a piece of music that got people so angry that the audience basically broke down the theater when it was performed for the first time? I can't remember at the moment. Anyway, that same piece is now on everybody's classical playlist.
The classical music riot I'd heard about was at the premier of The Rite of Spring, but while googling to remember the name, I came across this article about that one and four others. www.wqxr.org/story/180948-top-five-classical-music-riots/
No such thing as bad music only bad people.
As a person who rather enjoys hip-hop, I must push back. I don't think hip-hop IS music. Hip-hop is its own thing. It isn't simply rhythmic speaking as Ben says and while it incorporates some aspects of music, it is no more music than data aggregation and analysis is science. They are two different art forms that, while related, are not the same thing.
hip-hop/ rap is just a genre of music simple 🤷♂️
But if it’s one hundred percent subjective, doesn’t that mean Shapiro is right? At least as right as anyone else?
No.
Shapiro is presenting his subjective opinion as objective fact. It's not.
Michael Rowlands
Is he though? He says the case for..., and my view, and the view of my music theorist father is.... And after the clip ends the next thing he says is so tell me why I’m wrong. So it sounds like he is treating this as opinion and thinks other people will have different opinions and that he might be wrong.
He didn’t say anywhere this is fact or objective fact.