Avoid Chatter on Your Mill - Haas Automation Tip of the Day
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2018
- In this Tip of the Day, Mark addresses an issue that every machinist has faced at some point: chatter. Mark is at his best in this video, taking a complex topic and breaking it down into three categories that are easy to follow. Make sure you - and every operator and machinist in your shop - check this one out.
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This is V sauce of the cnc world
Yes! 😁
HEY H SAUCE! MARK HERE...
Glad to see machinists watch vsauce videos, Any ways your true both are smart, specs wearing and bald with a beard.
Derek Maller of CNC
I love your vids haas. You literally put money in my pocket by making me a better machinist with your tips
ive never been so positively surprised at something so previously unappealing, yet ironically so relevant to my everyday life because these processes are used for virtually everything, in all walks of modern day civilisation. Great tutorials guys! not that I need them but impressive stuff. Bravo.
I'm an actual mechanical engineer and I still watch these videos to learn about the machining world. Great job!
"Get yourself a modern CAM system" -Haas Quote of the day. :)
Yes, like Fusion 360 :-)
Or the best, SolidCAM
Surfcam had this years ago. Guess it's finally making it to low end cam.
We use solid works / cam works. Love it!
The best actually Powermill from Autodesk. But it has a price tag to go with it
I like these videos. Well done. Good for you to make these videos. Other companies should do the same. A video on feeds and speeds would be nice.
Max Maker very true
Du bist aber auch echt überall vertreten ^^ Max Maker
You know the product is excellent by comparison, when a presentation is this clear and extremely informative
I've just watched three of these videos and I'm loving it. So much knowledge and know-how. Thanks Haas!
It is indeed a 10,000ft view and it was nice to hear that mentioned. Understanding the fundamental reasons and methods and then being able to apply them is such a valuable skill in manufacturing. I think these videos showcase the fundamentals quite well. Also, Mark your personality is very inviting and you bring a sense of practically to these otherwise theoretical ideas. And, that tuning fork was an awesome demonstration! I have watched quite a few of these videos, and I hope to watch quite a few more.
One of the most informative 10 minutes of my life!!
I absolutely love these videos! I always click them over everything else! Mark you do an awesome job!!!
You have the best machinist videos on the internet. Thank you kindly for publishing this material.
These videos are some of the best I’ve seen. Good work, Haas!
So well done! From the examples, explanations to the solutions...I was able to follow and understand. Great job!
I can speak to how well constant engagement tool paths work on my CRAZY janky benchtop CNC machine that weighs no more than 150 lbs tops. Yes it still is a flimsy machine but constant engagement tool paths really do make a difference! That said also figuring out each machines "sweet spot" with RPM & feed helps a lot with eliminating or reducing chatter. Just because your calculations say 5,000 RPM at 20 IPM does not mean that 4,500 RPM and 22 IPM does not work best!
Well done, very professional and informative.
Amazing tips. I love these videos! Please keep them coming.
Excellent video series! You have a knack for making great analogies
Thanks Mark another fantastic informative video
I LOVE these videos!
Excellent video! Thanks, Mark.
Great presentation with great info. Thanks Mark!
This is an excellent explanation of resonance frequencies. Following the tooling manufactures recommended feeds and speeds help avoid this as well.
It seems like a natural progression of the technology would be to place a simple acoustic pickup, and use it to auto-tune the settings. This could prevent chatter that is below human detection threshold, and respond faster than a human can. It would also require less hand-holding so the operator could do more productive tasks, such as napping, eating, or slacking in general.
You don't need a gov grant...giter done
this exists already
there are companies who use microphones to early detect vibrations and microcracks etc in machines
czcams.com/video/uhpyz__CL8c/video.html
this is common practice in many shops
Not only the CNC world benefits from this. I am a hobbyist with a regular milling machine, and I like to look at it and get out what is important to me. So I like to watch and subscribe, nice that there is so much sharing on youtube.
I love these hands on intuition videos! It would be awesome to see a demonstration using a chladne plate to show how intermittent chatter lines up with peaks and troughs in the harmonic resonance of the part.
Thanks for doing these videos!
Thanks Mark. I enjoy these videos.
Wow awesome way of explaining everything I will definitely show this to all the guys at work especially to those who don't believe in high speed adaptive tool paths but still want to use traditional tool paths
You guys are doing a marvelous job. Thank you ever so much, I've grasped every skill I needed to run a CNC machine thanks to your Tips and Advises.
I program with Mastercam and the toolpath programming you mentioned in the Mastercam is called Dynamic Mill.
Great explanation of adaptive tool paths... heard a lot of people mention them in fusion 360 video but never lay out why they are better
That was an awesome demonstration. Kudos!
Thank you. Superb video and animations. Makes difficult concepts easy to comprehend.
Thanks for the tip! Excellent real physics at work!
What I do to stop resonating chatter with old-school lathe turning is to rub the rotating job with a notched piece of wood. This is done at 120 degrees of the tool and against the moving resonant peak where the job wants to flex. I have learned different speeds to do this so that it is just out of tune with the job as it changes over the cut. What it does is cause phase cancellation in the resonance which is trying to set-up.
It takes a bit of experience to zone-in on the rub-rate of the notched stick, but when you know why you are doing it, it doesn't take all that long.
Of course, applying any kind of force to the job will alter the tolerance of the result - but my experience is that the deviation is less than what is caused by the chatter.
In an expensive "new-school" environment, I could see a cheap alternative being to mount an acoustic transducer in the job-holding structure to detect and cancel chatter in real time. It would seem far cheaper and quicker to have that, instead of spending time on toolpaths, de-tuned cutting tools and brute-force cutting speed adjustments .. also doing the constant cut toolpaths lengthens production-rate.
Has anyone done such a dynamic de-resonator?
If not .. maybe you should? There might be a few bucks in that .. I'm happy with my notched-stick.
Great Video. For similar reasons, turbine blades on gas turbine engines have their natural frequencies tuned so
that they are at least 20% above or below the rotational speed of the rotor.
Another great video! Thanks Mark.
Hey bloke I have learned so much in such a short time thanks and keep the videos coming
I learned something. Thank you!
You guys deserve a damn pulitzer prize. The videos are expertly done with astonishing graphics how did you show the cutter path with the item sitting on the table? amazing Im impressed and I am 66. On the longer jaws about 1/4 in by the way if someone happens upon this You can also put clamps across the 2 ends of the jaws to hold them together better for more dampening.. The videos are so good and it also gets people more friendly to haas and view them as "good support after the purchase and real humans you can talk to"--alot of the other cnc that is totally missing.
Great lesson. Simple but so valuable.
I'm not a machinist but I love these vids.
Had this problem today when I had to use a couple of sub par end mills till my gorilla mills get back in. Overrides all afternoon till I found my spot again. Great video as usual!
i agree. you are alwalys making great videos. the explanation is really great and is helping during the daily work.
"don't waste cycle time ; peck drilling essentials" saved a lot of time. a lot of parts were finished sooner as planned and made our customers happy. thanks haas automation, inc.
i will keep that in mind and already focusing on your micro machine program to build up a home shop for the future.
Thanks Tom! That’s what we want to hear. If you have any suggestions for us, send them through to TOD@haascnc.com. Thanks again. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Appreciate your presentation. Will spread your idea to my friends in Korea.
excellent video as always!!!
Great explanation of chatter Mark! I must say, you have a very clear teaching style that compels me to watch every video that you present so I can absorb the knowledge you share.
I knew about adaptive clearing/constant engagement strategies but didn’t realise chatter could be reduced by using them.
Great tip, thank you HAAS.
One day when I finally get a proper production style VMC such as a HAAS, this knowledge will be invaluable
Jed - Thanks for the comment. Haas has Applications Engineers (like me, but with more day-to-day experience!!) at each of their Haas Factory Outlets, so we’ve got you covered when the day comes. Thanks again. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
THANK you the information given in this video helped me figure out issues on my non HAAS cnc machine. Free education...
I've run into chatter before and solved it, but I still learned something new today!
never used or seen cnc machine real life but i love your videos thy calm me down
Amazing info, thanks!
This video was very helpful. I had to expand the length on my workholding on a job just last week.
I'm set on becoming a machinist and these videos are giving me such a headstart on my class 🎶
loved the demo
You're the best Mark
Thanks for the video.
Mark thanks for taking the time to make this video. We have a 2018 haas vf5- 50 xt mill, everything is going great on that front. Now we are replacing a 1997 kuraki horizontal mill with a new giddings & lewis horizontal mill. All the production parts from the kuraki are being moved to the G&L. I can take the same tool from the kuraki, that had no chatter issues, and on the G&L with the same tool path, it chatters. And the spindle is 155 mm dia on the G&L, vs 150 mm on the kuraki. Even our 669.95 mm boring bar will chatter on the 8.5 mm chamfer it cuts. Alot of times all I can do is greatly reduce rpm and feed. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the machine. Maybe pull stud draw slower on the G&L? Would be worth having maintenance test this between the two machines. The other thing is, since the G&L is a new machine, everything is tight, maybe that is playing into the chatter.
Going from our 2003 vf5 that we traded in, we had zero issues with milling or anything else converting the programs over.
Great video! All good useable info. 👍
Excellent information!
Hey... Mark ... Thanks for training me.... Ur making me a better machinest.... Thanks allot Haas team.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.. Thanks a lot
Excellent video! I tried to tell the bonehead supervisors at work about speeding up and slowing down the rpm but all they know and tell people to do is slow down the FR. I proved them wrong many times when they asked about how I reduced the chatter but they just looked at me with that blank stare so I just walked away laughing and shaking my head. Lol
Well you showed them didn't you
Where do you work? Round here most of them don't like you editing programs however if you prove them wrong the usually don't know that you've changed the programs, but I'm also 15 yrs in aircraft machining
Trenton Buss their programs were wasting to much time and not getting good parts. Before I made the changes they would make double the parts to only get half or less than half good one's out of what they cut (I worked with glass). When I changed it they cut 700 parts for a 325 piece order and I turned out 689 good parts that everyone there said looked better than anything they ran before even all of the QA people. So yeah I guess I did show them. I did the job they hired me for. 😉
John McCall I worked at a place that made anything from cell phone screen protectors to glass for automotive industry, to screens for t.v., tablets, atm's, to card readers and more.
They laid off last fall so I started doing my own thing making products that I have made for years on a part time basis and I'm in the process of making it into a full time business.
Blessed are the wheels for they go round in circles 🙃
Very nice tip!
Great videos. Thanks.
Prepping for your machine, in webster tx, to arrive!!! Ive been in the automotive industry for 25+ yrs Using lathes, And hand making parts.
I do not want to waste time or materials. Let alone the equipment.
Hope everyone's staying covid safe!
Excellent video.
Lovely explanation.
You are the best. I watch all video what you upload. They are so informative really.
Keep it up👌👍
That is far from the most annoying sound in the world. I used to spend 12 hours a day running a Makino Mag 1, sometimes almost 80 hours a week. On roughing large workpieces, we ran a 1" two flute at 3/8" axial DOC, a full 1" radial WOC, approximately 28k rpm, and between 700 and 800 IPM. I do not miss listening to it scream. The tool changer on that machine was slower than a 30+ year old Matsura that my current employer had until recently. I never timed it, but it was probably 45 seconds minimum to change a tool. Next to quitting time, those brief periods of near silence were the best part of the day.
I like these video Excellent thank u haas.
Great video!
Thanks Haas!
Thank you so much for your típ
Good job!
Awesome video!
Nice work guy's
Awesome video. I don't own a CNC machine, much less a large Haas, but this was interesting throughout.
Incredible!
Ur a cnc guru , liked it so much sir
Same thing on the lathe, sometimes it is better to increase the pass depth to avoid tool bounce resonance, especially on hollow parts. Nothing worse than resonance in the finish cut.
Great video..!!
Good stuff!
Again It would be super helpful if you had a printable copy of each tip of the day. There is so much good information, it would be great to use this to help train the operators.
Nice demo of resonance
very useful tip
Exceptional video
These tips will come in real handy for when I never get a CNC machine. :D It's still interesting to watch.
U r genious...please upload more videos...v r expecting lot from u...
Another tip you can try in increasing the feed rate. by taking a bigger chip, you force the tool to be "stuck" between the chip while its cutting and the material that isnt cut thus eliminated that vibration.
You can also switch from climb cutting to conventional. that will keep the work piece pushed away from the tool instead of climb cutting which will 'grab' the work piece
very nice Ja !
Thanks Mark
well done!!
Very intresting tips. I will never use it, but stil very intresting to me. Thanks!
amazing explain
Good video!
very nice learning experience for freshers
Awesome! I'm gonna give this a try to tame the chatter monster that is the robot arm CNC I'm building at my university.
Thats mark changing the jaws in reel time, not speed up.
I saw this just as he started changing them 😂
thanks a lot
thank you
All these tips are great...however. There are cases where none of these may eliminate the problem. There is another tip I can share. Back when I was young often times you could hear tires on cars and trucks making a loud whining noise while rolling. Trucks were the worst. It was caused by the tread having the same pitch all the way around the tire. This caused harmonic vibration and the whine. It was found that by changing the tread pitch around the tire in segments that it eliminated the harmonics. Modern tires most likely have from 6 to 8 different tread pitches. The same thing occurs with end mills because the edges have the same radial pitch. One time I was having the chatter problem with long EM on CNC and when setting a new tool into the machine I accidentally chipped the corner off of one edge. I decided to use it anyway. It cut smooth!
I discussed my find with a friend of mine that was vice pres. of a major carbide cutting tool company. So we did testing in my shop. He was able to produce an endmill with variable pitch. On a four flute EM it is not 90 deg. to each edge. 89 /91/90/90. His company began producing these EM's for the market. After more experimenting they found that they can alter the helix also from one edge to the next. I think today there are many manufactures of these types of EM's.