The Downfall of Mercedes
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
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James Allison interview: www.motorsport.com/f1/news/me...
0:00 - Intro
1:29 - Operational decline
5:45 - Cost cap implications
11:45 - Drivers
16:47 - Toto's management
18:30 - Technical side
23:52 - The future
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Stop blaming Masi for 2021. No one told Merc not to pit Hamilton. Yes he would've lose the lead but u may never know. They chose to stay out & paid the price.
@@NicotineRosbergHamilton should've pitted in before final laps in 2021 Abu Dhabi GP.
@@purwantiallan5089 if Max stayed out & Lewis pitted it would've been in reverse. Lewis would've overtaken him on fresher tires. I can't get y ppl still bitch about it.
Masi as the director did what he felt was best. If it was illegal the race result would've been forfeited but it shows nothing was done wrong based on the rules.
Why mercedes had fallen
- they lost their engine domination, and they couldn't take advantage of their engine development strength because it is on a regulation freeze.
- they relied on their financial advantage to dominate the competition, wouldn't work now that the regulations is more equitable.
- poor expertise in the aero-department, particularly with regards to ground effect, and that's critical because current regulation is aero-driven
- their main driver is having a hardtime adapting to the current regulations (ground effect with stiff suspensions),
and Mercedes wasted so much effort and time trying to fix his confidence issues than making the car competitive.
People saying you picked the wrong time are forgetting that on dry Mercedes were slower than Stake
Yeah. That 2nd place was all Hamilton. Not the car. He has always been brilliant in rain. Track was a bit slippery already SQ2 and Russell did not manage to get in SQ3.
@@Mr_SkipperHamilton has been consistently stayed in between P2 to P5 in majority of the races ever since 2022.
To be fair, Mercedes were on Hards while everyone else was on softs
They weren't slower, the drivers just underperformed. Car was good enough for P2 inndry conditions in the sprint.
@@bill4665 since like 2023 there has been an obvious difference between Merc’s race pace and quali pace
I honestly think the cost cap is the biggest factor in the downfall, they got complacent in being able to throw money at problems
yh, Merc had a similar budget to the other three but the way they develop the car was extreme. You don't really see Ferrari building 2 whole concepts.
Now that Merc can't build and test 2 concepts the way they develop their cars has changed dramatically.
Cost cap had nothing to do with it. Its the new regs. It’s not the same team anymore from the Brawn era. It was Brawn who built that team and guided dev of the car with Schumi. Toto had absolutely nothing to do with designing or building the ‘14 team and car. He’s not an engineer, he’s a finance guy. All of Allison’s success also came under Brawn. The new regs just exposed them without Ross around to guide the technical dept for the new regs, just as Ross had done 4 times previously.
@@JuicedOnKidsMercedes and Williams were obviously the two that got affected the most by cost cap.
But funny enough with all the financial backing of all the teams now it has quickly become a limiting factor now
Yea I mean Aston Martin is doing a greater job (which I do kinda love to see). Even on this year's car, the team has made their front suspension geometry easily modifiable. It's a panel for the whole front wishbones' assembly. Like who thinks of that? They always go for very flexible designs.
People calling you out for dropping this at the wrong time. They must've forgotten that George didn't even make Q3 and it's just Ham pulling his tractor to the front row. 😂😂😂😂
Plus its a sprint race so this doesn't really matter
george is a walking barbie doll what do you expect
@@josiahboatengmyrie leave woody alone
The weather played the biggest part today
@@josiahboatengmyrie Nah, the disrespect when George has been carrying till now. Both are doing the best they can with compromised machinery since 2022.
Man I’d be livid if I was Russell: Merc make you spend 3 years at Williams when they’re at some of their least competitive years, finally get into Merc right as the domination ends, Hamilton still highly motivated thanks to how he didn’t get his 8th (except this year now he’s Ferrari bound) and now they’re already looking at Antonelli as the next big thing.
It’s all gone so wrong
Poor life sized overglorified Woody :(
Russell and Leclerc are easily the 2 unluckiest drivers since Alonso and Raikkonen
True
Livid? They payed for his way into f1. They pay him a top team salary, he’s only 24 and has many years to win a championship.
Relax. Boys talented. And only 24. Im pretty certain he will win at least 1 DC
This isnt bad timing the sprint doesnt really matter and doesn't take away from the fact that Lance Stroll had more points than Lewis 3 races in
I thought Lewis got screwed by a safety car in one race, had a DNF in another, and onboard footage showed he was driving a car with the most unstable rear end in another.
Alonso said the Aston is superior.
We are also not even a quarter of the way into the season.
Just some factual balance for the haters.
Also, has he not been experimental with setups again 🤔
I'm about to get some responses devoid of logic for this, I can feel them coming
How sprint doesn't matter? Points are points friend.
Merc is really bad, for 3 yers we stood here and listen to them "we don't know why the car is slow because the SIMS says we need to be with a 1 second faster", "we don't understand our car".
Incompetence is the key word here.
Merc doesn't know how to create and develop a car with the cost cap.
They did a good car and development when they spent over 800$ million and they had an engine advantage of 18 bhp.
I know many will comment on this, but please explain then why we see this poor performances?
One by one are jumping ship. Started with Hamilton and now sponsors.
@@ShaDowF17the Mercedes W15 in 2024 is also as slow as Mercedes W02.
@@ShaDowF17Really started when over 50 Mercedes engineers left 22/23 seasons.
Sprint grants points. Points matter. In the standing theres no differentiation between sprint vs gp points. points are points.
Anyone saying this is bad timing must not have noticed that Bottas in a Sauber was quicker than both Mercs in SQ2 and Hamilton was 0.058s away from being knocked out in SQ2. Half a tenth between the Merc drivers. The only reason a Merc managed a front row sprint start is purely because Lewis put in another rain masterclass. In the dry they were no better than before, rain always mixes things up.
Lewis's masterclass lap was over a second slower than Lando
And maxs lap was a lot slower than that. Whats your point
Wasn’t LH the last to finish a SQ lap? Meaning he was on the least wet track?
He did come in 2nd. Let’s hope he is back to 3rd place. I enjoy seeing Toto Wolff enjoying himself.
I mean he lowkey got saved by fernando's defense, more than any sort of masterclass - as well as the team timing his run perfectly, unlike with george.
@@Ryzard I was talking about his SQ3 lap. The sprint hadn't even happened when I made the comment.
Honestly I’m shocked that Mercedes would be so short-sighted to think that Brazil 2022 was a sign of progress when I think from most people it was clear that the sprint format meant most teams had trouble with setup that painted an unrealistic picture. Cost them 2 years at least.
2022 Brazil for Mercrdes was hell in heaven's disguise
20:34 This!
I saw a youtube short that praised Lewis in one of the last 2 seasons because he was driving a faster time on track than the "supercomputer" calculated. All the fans were goating him again, but they didn't realise that this is actually very bad. The software got fed with false/incorrect data then compromising basically their performance when the calculation lacks behind real life. I was immediately shocked hearing about this and it made then sense to me why Mercedes didn't get their setup under control. If all the calculations are lacking, how will you ever be able to extract the full potential out of the car when there is not that much real life testing anymore like back then in the 90s but more simulation testing...
It’s not that Lewis was driving better than the simulation. Mercedes was literally still 1 second slower than in the sim. The point was that Lewis was driving better against drivers with cars that are better than his. For example. The computer would say mercs would finish 5th/6th as they were the 3rd fastest car around the track, yet Lewis would finish 2nd. That doesn’t mean the computer was wrong. It was factually right in saying merc was 3rd fastest around the track so logically that means 5/6th, but the computer is actually too perfect in its calculation. The computer can’t predict driver mistakes, pit stops errors or dnfs. Lewis was simply driving better than cars that were faster than him not bc his car was faster but bc the other drivers who were in a better car, were underperforming.
@@illyricus. Bullshit-o-meter is off the charts here
@@arnaud14 which of what I said wasn't a fact?
That the Sim predicted Merc to be faster than it was?
That Lewis was beating other drivers in a worse car?
Those are the two only point I made and they're quite literally both facts.
You and the original commenter are talking about two different things. The original comment was about when lewis outqualified the simulated best lap in Singapore 2019. He was like a tenth quicker than the theoretical best. They're saying that the fact Lewis was able to outdrive the sim was a sign that it was either being fed incorrect/inaccurate informtation or that the supercomputer itself had some sort of problem. So it couldn't actually predict the best that the car could do.
You're talking about how now, Mercedes' sim is now overestimating the car's performance compared to what it's doing on track. The point was that the first example was likely a sign of the second. @@illyricus.
@@ieurobeatkids9378 he quite literally said in the last 2 seasons, that’s why I was talking about in the last two seasons. I get it that the sim predicted merc to be slower in 2018 Singapore and they actually were slower until Lewis pulled a great lap. The difference between Lewis pole time and the perfect merc lap shown in the sim was like 0.015 or something like that (dk it for sure just basing it off memory), so their prediction were quite accurate in that aspect bc no sim has ever been proven to be 100% accurate on its data.
Whereas in in this era the sim has been quite literally 1 second ahead of the actual pace. So it’s quite clear the problem with the sim has started with the new regs and even then it’s not necessarily bc the sim is faulty, but it’s moreso the fact that merc engineers don’t know wtf they’re doing with their car. You can always change the sim and get a better one, but since it keeps happening, is it really the sim?
I still remember when Hamilton pointed out that simulation is waste of time he was being branded all sorts of things
There are two types of sims. Lewis said he is not fond of driver simulators. But Merc is actually failing in the CFD simulation, the scaled down car simulation in wind tunnel and finally correlating them with real performance on track
Hes over rated. Always has been.
bottom line Lewis had the benefit of being in probably the greatest package (team and car) at the right time which has massively inflated hamilton's legacy.
He's not the best. not even close. not even top 5
But that mercedes package! ye! that is possibly the best team we have ever seen in the sport during that period
@@DAGATHire Lewis is good. Very good. Very very good. But he’s not the best. At all. Also, he’s not overrated. All genuine F1 fans would never call him the best ever.
@DAGATHire same can be said about max but max doesnt even have a competent teammate nor an outside challenge
@@marshallmarthes Nope, same cannot be said with Max. He actually was built from the down up, with Torro Rosso. He knows how to drive a shit car.
Hamilton doesn't. all his F1 Life has been driving the best car, and now we see his actual talent when given a mediocre car.
The downfall really started in ‘13 when Toto pushed out Ross Brawn. Ross built that team and set the technical direction for the hybrid regs along with Schumi as his test driver and team lead. Just as they had both done at Benetton and Ferrari and Ross did again at BrawnGP. Toto is not an engineer, he’s a finance guy. He had absolutely nothing to do with that the ‘14 car and building the team. He parachuted in with no experience running an F1 team, pushed Ross out when he realized how good the car would be and took full credit. He doesn’t even mention Brawn anymore or the work he did. He just says Merc’s turnaround when he arrived in ‘13. James Volwes has said going into ‘14 they knew a Merc driver would win the title. They also had that lead baked in for 3 years with the regs severely limiting changes the other teams even make in an effort to catch up.
Toto is not equipped to lead the tech dept for the new regs. He’s completely reliant on the engineers for direction. Whereas Ross set the direction and guided the engineers. Just as he did with James Allison. All of Allison’s success came under Brawn. Their current form has exposed both of their short comings and reliance on Brawn’s genius that he repeated at four different teams.
He didn't push Brawn out. Brawn left on his own accord. He wanted a break something like that & then he took up that role at F1 after
@@NicotineRosberg that’s the reason he gave to the public. You really think after all that work on the car and team over those 4 years he wanted to leave months before all that work paid off? Not likely.
@@seashackf1 you're thinking way too deep & may have some hatred for Toto which can be warranted but is stupid. Ppl leave the sport. It happens.
@@NicotineRosberg lol, 🤦♂️
Ignorant comment.
with a quali that wet it's basically driver skill accounting for the majority of the time. No wonder it was close between Landon lewis Alonso max. lewis on p2 because he is still a good driver, not because Mercedes is competitive.
Mercedes needed 450 mil/yr to stay on top, introducing the costcap was brilliant.
Are you stupid or not listening? He said INCLUDING building the engines for customer teams, which was 3 teams
Other teams spent the same. RB spent more than everyone in 2015. It wasn’t just MB spending more every year. It changed year by year.
@@Alumnikiid Except the others learned and adapted.
@@Ryzard thats is literally false. Ferrari and RB were spending the same, if not more at times and couldn't challenge Mercedes.
@@jonathanarie2813 wdym false? The cost cap was implemented in 2021, and that was the year that red bull caught up - and have been better ever since, as has Ferrari and now McLaren.
They learned and adapted to spending less much better than Merc.
Also, nobody could catch up in huge part because of Merc's hilariously dominant engine that they wouldn't sell to direct competitors. RB arguably had a better overall package for a large chunk of the turbo hybrid era, and Mercades was consistently slower on pit stops, some strategies, etc. while being carried forward by their ability to toss money at the car - where other teams invested on other things as well.
Now, Merc lost the ability to hold down all that staff for car development and lost them to other teams, and still don't have a good team operationally or technically.
When it comes to China's sprint qualifying (feels like the definition of recency bias)...By now, I think people should have gotten used to Mercedes' false hopes throughout this cycle, whether it's Brazil 2022 or Spain 2023. So many times we've seen them talk about how they're feeling good with the car...only for them to disappoint race after race. It's always the "what could have been." And as Verstappen has shown in Austrailia, just because you're out in front doesn't mean nothing will go wrong. If Lewis does well in the sprint and actual race, then good. But it's not a given, there's just as much a chance this is another one of those false hopes and would only be possibly disproven once the race actually ends.
The fact remains that this is the most embarassing Mercedes has been so far compared to 2022 and 2023. Now there's an actual chance the W13, the car that started this mess, would be their most successful car this cycle with one race win. It's more so that one customer team is well ahead of them while the other is breathing down their neck in the standings. Makes me wonder how much effect the budget cap has on them now that it's all about resource use efficiency over simply brute forcing for solutions.
I member people joking that Merc kept the same concept for 2023 due to Brazil 22 only for it to be true when DTS released.
One race at the end of the season shouldn't be a benchmark for future plans, Merc just keep making rookie errors.
Let's face it: without the 2014 regs Mercedes wouldn't have achieved dog shit by now.
Ross Brawn built that dynasty.. Toto cant build anything competitive on his own
He's not doing it on his own. Neither did Brawn. Look at the management of Brawn GP - it wasn't just him at all!
@@y_fam_goeglyd The point isn't that Brawn did it alone. The point is that Toto squandered what he inherited.
@@quigglyzSo you’re saying the w11 superiority was because of Ross Brawn?
@@Alumnikiid yes
Time for a new team principal, but they made a mistake giving the team principal ownership stake, so they can't make changes. He let too many important people go, I guess to save money and make profit. When I saw ToTo teaching at Harvard while still being the team principal, it shows maybe the focus is off.
I think when they lost James Vowles to William's the motivation might have gone down as well. He's a good Mentor to Bottas and other people on that team. When he Moved to William's he Mentored Logan Sargent to at least get him to grips on the car since he was a rookie and that really boosted his confidence even if Logan did crash the car. If this were to happen in 2022 with Lafiti could have we seen a better season from him after deciding on the 2021 title!
The best example of Mercedes' problem is when they pushed for rule changes with pitstops and ride height. Both of these pushes ended up hurting them because it didn't address their operational problems and it shows the team foundationally lack what it takes. They complain about how the car changes so much over a weekend, then spend their time building a whole different car for next year, then get shocked when the same problems keep coming back. Unless big changes happen, the next reg change is likely going to be much of the same.
Something that I think isn't being talked about, is Russell just not being the next team leader material. They need at least a consistent Q3 driver. Russell falls off under pressure all yhe time, I dont see him leading and winning a championship with anyone, let alone Mercedes.
I'm surprised how quick Russell cracks under pressure, it honestly sheds light on how much of an Alien Lewis, Alonso were when they were rookies/in their early years.
they need Sainz. Even Valterri was better over the course of a season
The car is shit, he's beating Lewis consistently
@@mattroyceThis.
@@matt5721 in 2024, what about all of last year?
It tooik rain chaos for Ham to barely get P2 in China. All they need is for it to rain every race, no biggie.
TeamLH44 gonna be summoning the rain on every race week
@@fordgt5383they gon be doing the rain dance
@@fordgt5383 Merc is gonna be typing "/weather rain" every single weekend from now on.
it somewhat goes to show, when the overall car performance doesn't matter, he is fine, its not him thats the problem. Landos was amazing during this quail and Verstappen just had a bad sesh, but anyone questioning Hamiltons abilities are delulu, he has checked out abit and seems to be just playing with his set up because why not, nothing to lose, but his ability is top notch.
@@betht7414 I mean even the haters know deep inside he’s one of the best to ever do it, but they just don’t want to admit it. You shouldn’t let them get to you, just like Lewis doesn’t.
It is becoming more and more obvious. It was just the Hybrid. They knew something the others didnt
16:14 Wow, I never really thought about it, but you're 100% right. All of the top 5 teams have at least one of the most highly-rated drivers on the grid, yet they all seem to struggle with the competitiveness of the higher midfield. This just goes to show how great the new regulations have been. If only Max wasn't there to spoil the fun 🤣
Summed up in a few words “Mercedes doesn’t know how to be broke”
But Mercedes has made 500m profit, nearly 200million more than last year. And still vote against new teams.
It’s a clown show.
I like rhe jab at Stroll.. Merc is lucky than AMR is a 1 driver team.
It’s not even a jab atm. It’s just stating the reality. Jab is something you throw at some semblance of performance. Stroll is just…. Dead weight
Mercedes nailed the turbo hybrid engine in 2014. Change that, and no one would remember the Mercedes team. The horsepower advantage they had made them sloppy, and shows how bad Toto is at running a team.
Ferrari nailed the regulations of late 90's till mid 2000's. Change that and no one would consider Ferrari the best ever team and most succesful and would not remember it too.
@@emilekaram6094 ehm
@@J.K.B.E What ehm?? Their history would be nothing other than Lauda and 50's.
@@emilekaram6094Mate... really :D What has your answer to do with his original comment? Tryna defend holy Lewis? Pathetic ... Even you UKs need to accept it wasnt him but the engine that carried Mercedes
All Mercedes need is a manager like me! I’ve proven it countless times in F1 Manager
You're hired.
You probably have a chance with how Mercedes are just now.
I think it’s also worth mentioning how much Niki Lauda meant to the team. They are definitely feeling his absence
they developed the MGU-H ahead of others in 2014 in part of the deal that FIA to perserve mercedes to stay in F1. Now they just perform as mid as they were in 2012 and 2013
The team has lost great personnel to Red Bull, to Aston Martin and maybe McLaren too iirc. In this era, the team just has not made cars that offer good ride quality, aero consistency, mechanical grip on all corners of the car. Add in the fact that they've been bad at pit stops, conservative on strategy. They just are not winning. They're losing even the occasional opportunities they get.
People say to cost cap is bad but I will never agree with that statement because it stops the giants from just spending their way out of a mistake. Pre cost cap Merc and Ferrari would've dumped money on the problems and to stay redbulls would've done the same leaving the other team behind.
Red bull getting the regs perfect first go was unfortunate but as time goes by we can see the grids closing up and redbulls development isn't giving huge gains anymore.
It sucks, this is no longer about pushing the boundaries of engineering. The top teams are still big manufacturers. You must be a red bull fan
The Costcap is not bad because it brought the midfield togehter and we see interesting racing there - however the cost cap is also playing it's part in manifesting Red Bulls dominance.
If you look at the grid unbiased, what has really changed except the Team that is undoubtelty on Top?
Williams, Haas and Sauber remained backmarkers except they are above Alpine (Renault) - AMR got better because someone invested heavily - only two Top Teams now and McLaren / Merc in the Mix of being midfield and front row.
One could say that in 2021 Red Bull was at least able to catch and beat Mercedes even with them spending that much. Now it just seems that 9 Teams are unable to find out how to nail the regulations and they all rather wait till 2026 for a new try.
@@Arseization Statistically the field is a lot closer. It just feels uncompetitive because Max/RB keeps winning but if he or RB dropped the ball more often it would be like in the turbo hybrid era but with statistically closer cars (look at Australia/Singapore). RB is just operationally better than Merc was back then and, dare I say it, I believe Max is even more consistent than Lewis was back then.
Rosberg getting no credit again 😔
Cause he was, is and always will be an average driver. He was never that good.
@@Asako_Gaming just a lie lol
@@skyline7932 Hows it a lie. He was dort the entire time he was at F1. Typical mid runner that got slapped into a Mercedes. Well done Rosberg. You're amazing.
@@Asako_GamingYou’re acting like he came into a winning team. Rosberg was the only Merc driver to win from 2010-2012 and consistently beat Michael Schumacher. In 2013, got another 2 wins. He’s the only driver that’s ever been ever to take Lewis to a real title scrap all the way to the end. 23 wins and a title isn’t average. Respectfully, stop speaking about F1.
@@ibeast2959 Well done he beat Shumacher who was away from the sport for a few years and came back to a new era of F1. He beat Hamilton in what was the best car by miles for 7 years straight. The 2 lads were rocking the best car and only competition was each other. Hamilton isn't that great either. Next you'll be defending him too. Get away with that.
You honestly cannot be defending this fella and be serious. You've honestly lost all credibility with that last comment. Using the dominant Merc as an excuse. I've heard it all now.
I think it's for the biggest part the engine advantage that Mercedes had in combination with new rules against the competition developing that handed them what records they had. Austin 2023 was not Mercedes' strongest track. They only looked good because they cheated on ride height and they got caught out for it. Mercedes failing now just indicates that basically, during their dominance, they just outright bought that dominance. Mercedes also did not have the wrong concept, as Red Bull proves now. Mercedes lacks execution with limited resources; e.g. being competitive. Mercedes has not solved the lack of a smooth ride (their porpoising). They lack understanding of making ground effect work and keep looking elsewhere but inwards.
The Mercedes drivers are also rather lackluster at best. Neither of them seem to be able to extract the most out of the car and be able to handle modern cars that are permanently on a knife's edge to get the most out of it. And Hamilton? Like Alonso noticed, he can only drive when he's P1. Remember Hamilton is the guy who tried to assassinate Verstappen during Silverstone 2021 and he should have been stripped from the whole season like Schumacher when he tried to off Villeneuve. Neither Hamilton nor Schumacher are great champions.
You nailed it on the head when you said their entire operation isn't operatiing at an elite level. Mirginal gains is everything in elite sport, the 1% makes a MASSIVE difference, you need to have best in class at ALL levels to be the best. Their lacklustre pit-stops is something I've been banging on about for ages, they're extremely poor and cost so much time in the race, it's mindboggling that they haven't improved or sorted that out yet.
It was never about Lewis and Toto. The foundation was laid by Brawn and Schumacher. Lewis and Toto look good because they were standing on the shoulders of much better competitors.
You hit the nail on its head here mate. I am a Lewis Hamilton fan but could not be enjoying this downfall of Mercedes more! I can't wait for 2025.
Christian Horner was right about Toto Wolff- He is a businessman and not a sportsperson. He is more focused on the commercial side of things rather than the sporting side of F1.
Wow. Toto got betrayed by Lewis and his fans
How the mighty have fallen so bad over the edge
Toto’s ability to build up a team is being tested very hard right now. He can keep a well oiled machine running, but he can’t build a team. Not to mention, they can’t throw money at every problem anymore, and it’s showing their shortcomings
What I think has hurt Mercedes a lot too is aerodynamic efficiency. In the previous regulations, they still relied to a big extent on their engine power. Their car has never been the most efficient aerodynamically. However Ferrari and most notably Red Bull have been more aerodynamically efficient even in the previous regulations. With the ground effect cars there's been more importance on aerodynamics than ever and it shows maybe one of the only inherent weaknesses Mercedes had during their domination years.
Not to mention both Ferrari and Red Bull Honda got their engines sorted before the freeze and there is pretty much no difference between the three power units in terms of power.
In the interview with Sky Germany, Wolf today said that "Lewis gave us a direction for development, that was completely off, so the car couldn't even steer around corners".
Haven't heard him ever blame Lewis so openly before, thought that was kind of interesting. Lots of pressure at Mercedes these days.
What I also find interesting is that 2 years ago in an interview, ex Mercedes engineer Philip Brändle stated about Lewis:
“He's really a driver who needs a lot of confidence in the car. He doesn't have the technical background that Nico Rosberg and Michael Schumacher had. He needs confidence and therefore a really fast car”.
My own interpretation of that was that Lewis is seemingly not that great at setting up difficult cars, which would explain his consistent struggles since the 2022 Mercedes car until now.
Yes, totally agree. And for me this is the reason why Lewis will always be touch a below the top echalon of F1 drivers - he is just driving the car. Shumi, Lauda, Vettel, Prost have been a significant part of designing and understanding the cars they drove, but Lewis is more of a user than owner of the car he drives. There is an interview of Lewis in a talk show where he is describing the experience in an F1 car, saying "The thing is like on rails, when you turn the steering wheel - the thing just turns!". Maybe I am nitpicking here, but describing an F1 car as "the thing" makes it seem like he is incompetent.
Those little sound effects on the chapter headings are genius, fantastic job with the edit!!!
Mercedes twisted the hands of F1 to introduce hybrid engines, which they have been working on for four year. They have good technicians, but this advantage kept them on top for a number of years.
That has so been debunked over the years. Why are people still repeating it.
@@jamtalawah2231 Niki Lauda confirmed that Mercedes was working on that engine since 2007.
@nicovanos doesn't mean it was the sole reason for their success, the engine only helped in 2014-16
@@nicovanosIt had legit been debunked. It is honestly disturbing that folks still believe it.
What really kept them dominant for so long is the token system introduced between 2014-2016
Once it was lifted, came new regulation where teams that manufacture their own engine are given an option between building the PU or the car
The biggest reason for their downfall is that the engine of Honda AND Ferrari are equal if not BETTER than the Mercs
If RedBull had Mercs engines, Lewis would not have won 7 WDC
RedBull won races every year with an Renault engine with atleast 50 HP less than the Merc engine
Now Merc is the 3rd team with merc engines behind McLaren AND Aston Martin
Ohhh it’s almost like red bull lied when pushing for an engine freeze
Red Bull were winless in 2015
Cost cap reduced the budget push by teams.... RedBull move towards operational excellence but other big teams are struggling to change.... That is normal when they are big organization like Merc or Ferarri. Ferrari got it's concept right with ceiling levels. Merc got it wrong... RebBull nailed it.... So a strong technical team also helps. Now only thing Redbull now has to improve is driver combination if this synergy happens they will be more strong.
To make a long story short. When a team is lucky with a design, they can winn and make a lot of it. F1 is 90% the car. If you are unlucky with the design and you developed in the wrong direction, you loose. So simple as that.
Toto only knows to fixe shit with money, but that cheatcode isn't available anymore. Mercedes needs someone who knows.
Toto should give full control to James, while he takes a step back to focus on the business side
No coincidence Stroll began helping Newey 21/22 with the RB Lewis said losing lances input was catastrophic, Now with the move to McLaren we will no doubt see the rise of McLaren
Top video!
Broad perspective, in depth analysis and thorough knowledge! You convincingly point out that - as most of the time - there is a whole complex of reasons for the Mercedes downfall (or interlude if they're back on track with the 2026 concept).
Well done!
It’s clear to me Russell is not all people hoped he’d be. Russell is never going to lead them to a WDC. The best you can say about Toto is that he didn’t squander the gift Brawn gave him.
Yeah this sprint quali is more about Lewis than Mercedes 😅
I know this video is about merc but people tend to forget that Adrian Newey started designing F1 cars BEFORE the end of the last ground-effect era. He is one if not the only technical person in F1 that had practical experience with ground-effect prior to these aero rules
He said it the best himself. For ground effect aero, you first fix the platform before even attempting to fix the ground effect
Most fanc care more about the F1 WDC than the WCC. What makes them more exciting is a close battle between multiple drivers. Merc dominated in an Engine formula. RedBull dominated in an Aero formula. So should the F1 and the FIA develop a formula that is Engine and Aero?
Oh, do be quiet.
2026 regs ARE engine and aero…..
Red Bull paid the Merc engineers to move, before the cost cap came into force. 0.5 on a pit stop doesn’t make the car that much faster. It’s a team sport, Red Bull spent huge sums pre-cap to get the merc engineers.
I think using points to compare Mercedes performance across the years can be a bit misleading.
The Mercedes in 2023 arguably looked better than the 2022 car, and they had less points because there simply were less points up for grabs with red bull being much more dominant.
Mercedes tends to start off seasons poorly and then pull themselves together towards the second half of the season.
that pattern was kinda broken last year (they didn't get worse either tho except for that one Brazil race), hence why more people think they are in trouble
This is more about Totos lack of management skills.
mid-season testing has to come back.. and it can be embedded on GP weekends like 2-3 weekend at least.. limiting km distance drastically from top to down in that 2 hour or more sessions.. testing on sims is not free maybe even more expensive and when you look rationally since its hard to correlate to real life its waste of money and human energy.. it doesnt give chance slower teams to recover.. we just watch the same race all the year long.
Sounds like merc needs a Toto recall.
Noice
2011 wasn't Mercedes second season in Formula One. It was their fourth; 1954, 1955, 2010, 2011.
It’s nice to hear someone not beating the “Ferrari made a mistake” drum of stupidity
I don't wan't to sound like a old shellac but put simple: Niki was the Brain and Roto was the beauty Model. Now that Niki is gone we see how much of the success came from who: 99% Niki 1% Roto Golff. Remember which team the bad Wolff worked before. Stone dead last Williams.
You could also talk about the downfall of Red Bull after the years of Vettel domination, even with Verstappen joining them. Dominance comes and goes in cycles. It's hardly like the fall of Williams for example, from world championship dominators to the lengthy current state of tail-end strugglers.
At least they still had a budget
For me I'm still going to very much maintain the belief that Mercedes' dominance was very much down to the power unit. Combine the power unit with awful aero and most of the time all they had to do was stick it on pole. Lewis didn't come anywhere close to the comeback drives from way down in the order than Max did and still does when he needs to. Teams like red Bull and Mclaren have always built race cars. They can get their head around aero regulation changes much quicker. Mercedes' downfall started much earlier than 2022 when the regulations started to lean more toward the aero side of things. Red Bull's aero was much better than anyone else's from 2018-2021, they just didn't have the power unit until Honda came back. Red Bull dominance was coming with or without the 2022 regulations.
You have all the pieces of the so called puzzle, you just didnt, in my opinion, put them together right.
As long as the regulations stay on the side of aero, I dont see Mercedes, or anyone, beating Red Bull except McLaren and Aston Martin. Hamilton will get close at Ferrari at best, but like Vettel, will not succeed. He had it too good for too long at Mercedes and got complacent with them.
Hi aldas.
There are one thing I've thought alot about, but I've never seen any of the media bring up and talk about;
Pre-costcap RedBull had about 100mill lower budget then the likes of Merc and Ferrari (iirc, about 250 vs 350mill). And still they were mostly competitive, if not for that, you know, engine-thing.
This fact, do I personally think made them "jus the order" once the cap(s) came in, as they were used to operate at "about" that level anyway (250m including driver salaries and such). Remove 50 for max, 10 or 15 whatever other eriver, 10 for newey and probably about 10 for the other top2 personelle, and you are in the 150m ballpark already.
Tjey really didn't need to readjust alot, compared to mercedes.
When Hamilton used to dominate, I prayed for someone else to start winning. But now, I won't mind seeing Mercedes dominating once again. They're dominance didn't seem to be as fierce as Red Bull. Mercedes always seemed catchable. They always made occational mistakes. Lewis never went on a 10-race winning streak. There were always multiple race winners every season. Mercedes often messed up pit stops and strategy.
Now it's so much more boring. Everyone knows that Red Bull and Max will win almost every single race, even if he's starting in P15. Everyone knows that Max will win the championship even before it starts. Schumacher's and Hamilton's records are going to be broken. It's not a question of if, but when. Red Bull are operationally exceptional. No pit stop mistakes. No strategy mistakes. No unnecessary penalties. It's almost like they're working like robots.
Maybe sometimes, over-perfection can be boring. Don't misunderstand, I only have praises for the job Red Bull and Max Verstappen have been doing since September 2022. They have only dropped 2 races as a team and Max has only dropped a handful. The consistency is something I've never seen before. But, it is really boring as well.
I guess the grass will always be greener on the other side. There is definitely an alternate universe where the Mercedes and Red Bull peaks would have coincided for 2-3 seasons, and boy I would have enjoyed that!
There was always multiple race winners
2014 - 3 race winners from 2 teams
2015 - 3 race winners from 2 teams
2016 - 4 race winners from 2 teams
Don't lie to justify things
You may say Mercedes dominance are the one who is responsible in creating the current form of Redbull that are perfect in everything, and thus becoming unbeatable
Without them becoming perfect team today, current era would be lot, lot more interesting
@@MrSniperfox29 Look at 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
2017 - 5 winners, 3 teams
2018 - 5 winners, 3 teams
2019 - 5 winners, 3 teams
2020 - 5 winners, 4 teams
Even in 2014, 15, 16 Hamilton won 10/19 which is just above 50%. Max in 2023 was 19/22 which is about 90%. So even though Lewis dominated in early hybrid era, he always had decent competition from Rosberg. In 2017 and 2018, Vettel was a genuine competitor till the summer break. So, there was probably only 2020 where Lewis was the sole championship challenger but even then there were 5 other race winners.
Max Verstappen is currently the sole championship challenger since the summer break of 2022. No one is even close to challenging him for the championship.
@@hectornecromancer5308 I also think the cost cap is partly responsible for this. Red Bull got the rules right or maybe the others got it wrong. And now, since you can only spend so much, Mercedes and McLaren will always be behind Red Bull by a delta. Since Ferrari were challenging for wins in early 2022, they still have an outside chance of fighting for the championship.
@@waibeeYB Mercedes yes, but Mclaren are being helped a lot with cost cap, because not too long ago they're essentially bankrupt
I appreciate the work you've done on this video, it is great.
I wanted to hear your view on the clear advantage that the Red Bull got from bridging the cost cap and also, something that no one seems to talk about, the purpose of the new regulations in the first place, to bring the cars closer together?????
Mercedes was so dominant, that they could afford to rely solely on the power of their power unit. Red Bull on the other hand had to optimize all aspects of their operation (bar the engine) to even have a chance to get close. Now that RBR has the best car, Mercedes also needs to optimize it all, and they can’t just throw money at it anymore. I think they severely underestimated how much work they have to do. That’s why they’re also behind McLaren, who have started overhauling their processes 3 to 4 years before Mercedes did.
I'm drawing the line. Lewis "singlehandedly driving merc to second in the constructors" is bull.
George was right there much of the time, even with bad luck and lewis shoving him off - and the team actively improved all year to try to sort themselves out. They had genuinely good weeks - and EVERYONE ELSE was struggling as well. Ferrari, aston, mclaren, etc. all had huge struggles through the year, and on and off points.
George was also the one to pull in the crucial points in Abu Dhabi to actually secure that p2.
Yes, Lewis was a huge part of that success - but he was not carrying anything. He was just a part of that success, not the sole driving factor.
Aldas doing the videos that the access media have been doing everything in their power to avoid for months.
Does anybody know what the music was @ 11:46?
I knew this would happen after Niki Lauda died
The amount of UKs tryna convince the rest that it was all Lewis and not the engine is so pathetic, gotta love it :D
The instrumental starting at ^=6:10 is fantastic. What's the name of this track?
Whoever best mitigates turbo lag will have a big advantage in the beginning of the next regulations… whenever they occur…
That’s a great take tbh, not enough people have seen this yet
Mercedes is nothing without Ross Brawn
Mercedes was getting beaten all the time by Williams back then when Brawn was in charge
Great video! But don't agree with the captioned title. They may no longer be no 1 but merc is still a top team, they haven't fallen anywhere 😅
F1 is an engineering championship and engineers expect to be judged on abilities and results, not socioeconomic background or genetics. The exodus of technical staff and the corresponding decline in pace can be traced to internal policy changes spearheaded by one of the drivers. Less qualified and less competent people were given opportunities that they didn't earn. The more qualified and more competent people saw the writing on the wall and bailed to teams that don't have those kinds of internal policies.
Pretty prophetic, I've been saying for months how hamilton is falling backwards down the field and this 18th place proves it, funny thing is, no one will make videos about it and make fun of him like they would Lance Stroll who will finish ahead of him in the season standings.
So how was he able to finish ahead of Checo in the sprint race who definite;ly has a better car.
@agro-valleyfarm7217 sprint race is before qualifying and means nothing. How can you be so weak that you argue with a 18th place that is now in the record books?
@@tylerdurden4006Your'e the one whose opininon is very illogical and weak. The sprint race matters.. He started at P2 and still finished P2 and ahead of SAINZ and Checo who have a better car. He started at P18 and finished P9 in the race. You people only show up to display your ignorance.
@@agro-valleyfarm7217 and how does that change the FACTS he qualified p18? Wtf?
Toto Wolff in yesterday's interview with Sky Germany: "Hamilton forced us into a development direction that was completely off, the car could not corner at all any more." He also said, when SLH leaves, there won’t be much loss of (development) know-how. The vibe was that he was quite fed up with his constant complaining. He said that a new driver will be "refreshing".
LOVE STORY
The End. 💔
The budget cap makes racing worse. Let the engineers do their job and the racing will be better. WEC Hypercar is more interesting on every level than F1.
I agree with "let engineers do their job" part. Because current regulation is already way too restrictive. Make some of it loose.
But I'll keep cost cap in place. So it'll be everyone who can do it, instead of few huge funded team
@@hectornecromancer5308honestly. The cost cap is a good idea in prospect but poor in execution
@@Giratina575 it tends to happen when the regulation is still recently implemented
I need a compilation of Aldas's Stroll shade 😅
The engineers at red bull should be the highest paid people in f1.....any current f1 driver would have a massive improvement if in a current red bull car
It’s amazing what can happen when skill matters more than money when building a car. Being able to make, then throw away 10 cars to get to one that works. What a ridiculous use of money and totally unfair to any teams that aren’t multibillion £ companies with money to burn.
Mercedes lost 2021 to strategy in the French Grand Prix. If they'd pitted Lewis after Valtteri as intended, they would've kept the lead and then they could've gone bold in the 2nd stop and won that race. One race win made the difference that season. It could've been France.
"It´s a marathon, not a sprint" ... overhasty full-sends it to P18, made my year. Season would have been over wide before Yas Marina if Max tyres didnt explode, he wasnt nearly killed in Silverstone and wasn´t torpedoed by Bottas in Hungary ... Dont you forget that Mercedes stole Max 44 Points with two forced crashed within 2 races my friend ;)
You’ve got the wrong comparison for Mercedes being a power unit merchant. Mercedes had a massive leg up on Red Bull in the engine department until 2021. Their main competitor has always been Red Bull (as you alluded to in the beginning of your video). Ferrari have plenty of other problems that prevented them from being a consistent competitor regardless of their engine being decent. It’s disingenuous to switch the comparison when it benefits your argument.
Minutes saying it is not the drivers fault. Chinese GP Sprint qually: Russell screw up; Chinese GP qually: Hamilton screw up. LMAO, my only regret is still giving a view to Aldas, but it id worth to see the bad results.
l have to ask does all the teams have access to LMP racing ?? lf so why not use that research to aid in aero testing to assist F1 side too ?? l m sure Ferrari does along with engine development , it would be the smart thing to do to gain an advantage without going over budgets allowed .
They got far too cocky and thought the new 2022 cars would be nothing serious
A thought only a cocky team would have
gotta appreciate the music mix, really missed the one at 18:30
Will 100% be an unpopular opinion but here it is.
I think Hamilton's "diversity" push is partly to blame and I see it as no coincidence that as soon as he's properly made that gain traction and become a priority, their results have gone way down. I personally think they need to focus on improving their teams performance rather then the diversity of it. No one actually cares what race or gender the makeup of the team is as long as the car is fast and the personnel do their jobs properly.
Just what I've noticed and what I think feeds into the problem on top of all those discussed in the video.
This is also why I don't think Ferrari will be very competitive in the future.
😂
The cost cap limited a team like Mercedes that was always ready to bring crazy developments. Also the FIA stepping in a banning various tech innovations Mercedes made also was an effect. Then entering 2021 the rule changes to the floors also messed up Mercedes. Internally I feel Mercedes just let go of this F1 era 2022-2025. Plus this era which is restricted shows you can not catch up
It's because Mercedes and (to some extent) Ferrari are always working on things so edgy that FIA are constantly on alert instead of doing things that wouldn't make FIA going after them like everyone else did
@@hectornecromancer5308 and how about the innovations the FIA would allow like DAS before the season then ban them after? F1 is a sport for innovation. Yes these new regs gave us new champions but did kill one fundamental thing a team with a locked in advantage will never be caught in previous regs if you are weak in engine you had aero to work on or software or chasis change. The restrictions today do make the sport boring because gaps can’t be closed through software or engine or any other innovation. Probably a rule reset in 2026 might change this predicament
@@mwinengabo2971 I agree with the restricted part. Should let the engineers go wild, scrap the carried over regulation from past era
Their bad pitstop times were due the costcap which made them cut slack in the pit equipment
I'm not really a fan of cost caps in any sport, though I understand why they're implemented. But I'm a Yankees fan, and the most expensive rosters they've had in their history have only 1 championship pennant. So money isn't always guaranteeing a win
I think this may be your best video yet. Great analysis and videography. Well done
Alternate title: why Lewis is moving to Ferrari
I think Mercedes got into big problems, because they might have lost a lot of good people to other teams. Everyone wants people from the leading team and if you are on the top, you might not be willing to change that much. Also Lauda‘s death and the following change to the leadership could weaken Mercedes.
bro, Mercedes lost core people since 2021 actually. That really start the whole downfall. And then there is disastrous cost cap. I absolutely criticise this cost cap. This cost cap is absolute failure regardless of who says really. I mean this is absolute disaster class. This is Mercedes domination 2.0 basically. U try to break rich will get richer, poor get poorer this kind of reality will backfire to u spectacularly
@@johnlau6749 I think Mercedes started loosing people already back in 2019 or 2020. It‘s not just the cost cap, everyone tries to get people from the best team.
The cost cap might be not perfect, but I think it’s better than without it. F1 wasn‘t even near an economicly sustainable business. I think without cost cap the gap between teams would be even bigger and maybe we wouldn’t have as many teams and engine manufacturers as we have now and will have in 2026. I doubt many companies are willing to spend half a billion Dollar every year to get the possibility to be successful in F1.
@@Phantom-mg5cg not perfect yes, but the gap will be bigger regardless of cost cap actually
I wouldn't blame the drivers at all. Except the few mistakes during the races themselves, qualifying in this car is impossible, undo able, impossible.
They have a better chance of points starting from the pits and breaking parc ferme.
MB social media(SM) presence is also gone. Toto , GR, and LH are no longer crying about things on SM, you don't even see them. It's going to take a long time for them to rebuild. 10 yrs +
recently (china gp) RB had 1.9s pit stop... that is insanity
Mercedes had 5 1-2 in the first 5 races of 2019 and fastest laps
192 points after 4 races or
232 points after 5 races
I don't have high hopes for Mercedes in the coming years. Being outperformed by two, and on some occasion all three of their customer teams, is pretty uninspiring. Toto Wolff did a very good job of consolidating the foundations laid by Ross Brawn but he's failing to rebuild Mercedes.