Why Do All Superheroes Need Secret Identities?
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- Throughout the history of superheroes secret Identities were a core staple of the genre. Clark Kent and Superman, Bruce Wayne and Batman, and Peter Parker and Spider-Man, but in today's modern superhero landscape all that has fallen by the wayside. The MCU has effectively done away with the concept of the 'secret identity'. So, now that that core idea is being phased out... what does that mean for the genre as a whole? Will it survive another hundred years without this element? Only time will tell.
#superhero #marvel #nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Paul Ritchey - Zábava
I think of when Timmy Turner's parents got superpowers and they learned that they need to conceal their identities or their enemies will hurt their friends and family. Timmy's mom asks if they have enemies and Timmy's dad immediately says Dinkleberg
Bro, this was the best explanation I've read.
And it's a accurate description of one of my favorite episodes.
The Fairy Oddparents has forever damaged my brain, I cannot read the word "Dinkleberg" without imagining Timmy's dad saying it on my head
To be fair superheroes whit no secret identities usually dont have vulnerable family or loved ones.
MCU also tends to kill of its antagonists so its kinda hard for them to seek vengeance.
Yeah that has been a complaint that MCU villains they introduce are one an done performances with no real plan to develop or bring them back as a way adapting certain superhero rogues galleries. Not to say we haven't gotten fantastic villains in the MCU because we have. However even recently villains like Gorr, MODOK, Arnim Zola all had potential to be brought back yet were never given the opportunity
I agree a bunch of their villians either die that same movie or they just have NO loved ones at all to worry about for some reason
The vulnerable family or loved ones excuse doesn't really hold water. Superman is known to be friends with the most of the same people as Clark Kent. Enemies of comics Iron Man are very often also enemies of Tony Stark.
Remember in Spider-Man 2, when Doc Ock didn't know Peter was Spider-Man and still kidnapped Aunt May and MJ?
Or remember in Batman '89 when the Joker kidnapped Bruce's girlfriend despite not knowing Bruce was Batman?
Or remember how EVEYONE kidnaps Lois Lane all the time despite not knowing Superman's secret identity?
@@rickytickytimbo9182
Well, at least villains tend to have very good reasons to go after Lois. She's a kind of a crimefighter in her own right and is constantly trying to expose their crimes as a journalist.
I think the quote that sums up why secret identity is much needed best is "With great power comes great responsibility". It is too much for a human to bear all those expectations, hope, & hatred facing the world, even as super as they come. As a symbol, they can be free off judgment and just do the saving.
Only Spider-Man and Daredevil are the Marvel characters that keep their identities a secret.
i thought it was pretty much protecting people they love
You got something wrong here…. In regards to Superman, Clark Kent is the real person while Superman is the performance. I think that’s what people tend to get wrong about Supes. Even as Superman, he acts and behaves like the country boy Clark will always be. Now someone like Batman is where your example applies, where Batman is the real person and Bruce is the performance.
> In regards to Superman, Clark Kent is the real person while Superman is the performance. I think that’s what people tend to get wrong about Supes. Even as Superman, he acts and behaves like the country boy Clark will always be.
Because this destroys the illusion of Superman - if Clark (the human persona created by the Kents) is the real person rather than Kal El (the Kryptonian known to the world as Superman), then it becomes too unrealistic for Superman to be the bastion of incorruptible good and a manifestation of heroism (which was explored in Grant Morrison's Final Crisis: Superman Beyond). His Kryptonian nature is what allows him to transcend flawed human existence to become the example of perfection that we as regular humans should strive to reach.
True. I think many people get that wrong because of Kill Bill and the Zack Snyder movies 🤣🤣🤣
Superman is the true person because Superman is the farm boy, Clark Kent is him connecting with people better, he learned how to act to just be Clark Kent (he learnt to speak and physically show himself to be a small human man)
But then again, both Clark Kent and Superman are required for him to be who he is, two parts of the same coin
Edit: At least this is how it is shown in a lot of comics
I think it's simpler than that for Superman (and this applies to Batman as well). Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter, IS a performance just as much as Superman, ever certain bastion of pure goodness and unfailing perfection is. The real person is Clark when he's in Smallville with his parents (or Lois when she's in on the secret) with no glasses or costume. Down to earth, deeply caring but also self-doubting and truly human in the best possible way.
Edit: For Batman it's when he's in the Batcave with Alfred and the kids where he's neither a disconnected playboy or an inhuman icon of fear but just a brilliant, driven if traumatized man determined to make a better world.
Batman is also a performance
But so is the public persona of Bruce Wayne
His real self is the one having burgers with Clark or playing basketball with Tim
Whenever superheroes hide their identity, it only adds to the lore and urban legend aura they have when people speak of them. Batman never showing his face just adds to the fear and intimidation criminals fear as opposed to if they saw Bruce Wayne's face if his mask was removed.
Yep which is why bruce wayne needed to die in the end of the arkham games. Batman cant be that symbol if they know he is human, he supposed to send fear into his enemies as they seem him as some otherworldly punisher not some billionaire with rich gadgets and tools.
@@Ty-cx5zj
What? Even in the Arkham games, his most dangerous enemies know he’s human.
It’s an outdated concept, for the most part. Even in older comics, characters who have these powers, often up against geniuses, who are doing something only say, a Superman could stop. Yet, if that villain, like Luthor, really wants to find who he is, it’s not going to take long.
Just his attachment to Lois, would and has lead Lex to figuring out he’s Clark Kent.
A Lex who doesn’t know, isn’t very believable, being that he’s one of the most intelligent minds in the DC universe. Not just earth. The entire DC Universe.
Batman? Come now, they did away with the bigger villains, not knowing his identity long ago.
Before they did another reboot, the Joker said that he’d always known that Batman was Bruce. He just didn’t care about Bruce Wayne. It was Batman, who Joker wanted to do the dance with. Then Scott Snyder had Joker go straight to the Manor, and setup capturing the entire Bat Family, after cutting off his own face, then retrieving it from police evidence. 😆
@@Ty-cx5zj
Batman has a secret identity because Batman breaks a lot of laws, and Bruce Wayne would be arrested in an instant if people knew he was Batman.
@@CorbCorbin I feel it'd be especially impossible in a modern adaptation for lex not to easily know who Clark is cause of advancements in facial recognition software. reading your comment makes me wish I didn't give all my new 52 issues away to my friend
@@CorbCorbin I once asked myself why Lex Luthor doesn't know that Clark Kent is Superman, but upon researching it, I found an answer that actually makes sense. You see, you and I know that Clark Kent is Superman and Bruce Wayne is Batman, but the majority of people in the DC Universe think that Superman and Batman spend all their time-fighting crime. Essentially, they think that there is only one person. No one is looking for a secret identity, because they're pretty sure that heroes are just heroes all the time. On the other hand, Lex Luthor doesn't even view Superman as a man. His whole thing is that he hates Superman because everything is easy for him--Superman is essentially a god in Lex's mind. Lex views Superman as a god, and in his mind, no god would ever pose as a measly human. Lex certainly wouldn't waste time mingling with humanity if he had god-like powers. So, Lex Luthor assumes that Superman spends his days saving people or hanging out at the Fortress of Solitude or some other extraordinary place. Thus, the reason Lex doesn't usually figure out that Superman is Clark Kent is that he never asks the question to begin with, and any time he stumbles upon some possible evidence, he dismisses it immediately due to his personal bias. I guess it's kind of ironic. Lex Luthor is one of the smartest people in the DC Universe, yet his own personal view of the world prevents him from ever considering that Superman might spend his down time as an average citizen.
Clark kent is not the performance of superman, he was a regular guy before he knew he was a demi god, clark is the real person, and superman is the performance
While I agree, this is something that can vary from writer to writer.
I like to believe he’s a bit of both while Batman is just Batman and Bruce Wayne is dead
IMO Clark Kent “the reporter” is a performance. Superman the Super powerful Hero is Also a performance. Clark Kent when he’s in smallville is who he really is. At the end of the day, beyond the Powerul hero and clumsy reporter, he’s a Farmboy .
A secret identity shields the superheroes closest friends, family, and other loved ones. It's why I love it. They can walk among us anonymously.
Especially if one of those superheroes saves a guy from jumping off a skyscraper that actually wanted to jump! That would cause a whole uproar in the media of whether or not superheroes should be outlawed, and they'd have to step down from their hero roles and live out their lives as their secret identities instead. Hopefully theses heroes could raise a family of super beings that DON'T look back at fighting for good, even when villains build indestructible robots to terrorize the city or try to make heroes look bad through mind control. (Incredibles reference in case than goes over anyone's heads) xD.
*SUS*
@@wyslanniknewworldorder9525 GTFOH
@@seanleon2766lol
Yes! Privacy and safety from stalking, assassination, and harassment is the Number One reason for a secret identity!
The secret identity is also supposed to protect the hero's friends and family. Even a loner like Batman has people he cares about.
Pepper was put in danger in Iron Man 2 and 3 because the villain knew who Iron Man was. No Way Home also showed how Peter's family and friends were hurt by the reveal of his secret identity.
Remember in Spider-Man 2, when Doc Ock didn't know Spider-Man's secret identity and still kidnapped Aunt May and MJ?
And remember in Batman '89 when the Joker kidnapped Bruce's girlfriend despite not knowing Bruce was Batman?
The whole "to protect my loved ones" thing never really works.
@@rickytickytimbo9182 Remember in Spider-Man 1, when Green Goblin found out Spider-Man's secret identity and went to his house and sent Aunt May to the hospital and then delivered that line to Peter: "Can Spider-Man come out to play?"
Also, remember in Spider-Man 1, when Green Goblin captured MJ and tried to force Peter to save the girl he loved or a lift full of children?
It seems like those events wouldn't of happened if Spider-Man identity didn't get exposed
@@R0n1nD0m MJ was a danger magnet. Peter had to rescue her 3 times before the end of the movie, and only once because Goblin new his identity.
Writers put superheroes' loved ones in danger regardless of if their identity is known.
@@rickytickytimbo9182 but that's the thing MJ never would've been put in harm's way during the final act of Spider-Man 1 if Peter's identity wasn't revealed. The Green Goblin specifically sought out the people closest to Peter because Osborn wanted to hit him where it would hurt the most. You can't just put out some blanket statement and say that MJ's a danger magnet and completely sweep all context under the rug.
It also helps them. Let's be honest in real life if someone had powers like spiderman or wolverine the government would try to capture that person and do experiments. With a secret identity someone that's a mutant or super human can just have a normal life not fearing the government coming into their home and fighting them.
Not quite sure how Cap isn't a "symbol shining in the darkness." I wasn't a huge fan of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but it did show how the shield and the "persona" of Captain America was a symbol. Sam struggled to take it on, partly because he felt it belonged to Steve. So it was given to someone unworthy, someone who twisted the symbol and corrupted it. I think MCU showed in that sense that the connection between the person and the symbol is actually really important.
Oh man not the paraphrase of that horrible Superman take from Tarantino. While he exaggerates his persona around people who don’t know, Clark Kent is who Superman is. He’s human at heart, a good guy from Kansas trying to do the right thing
That's true of Post-Crisis Superman (a.k.a. since 1986). For the first 50 years of Superman comics, Clark Kent was very much a disguise (it's even part of Superman's classic introduction: "disguised as a mild-mannered newspaper reporter, Clark Kent").
"Clark is who I am. Superman is what I can do."
Agree to disagree. In the old radio dramas and b&w TV series, it was made explicit that Superman is “a strange visitor from a distant planet”. This idea that Superman is just “what Clark can do” is a modern spin that, personally, I strongly dislike. Superman literally shrugs off most human suffering! He’s not a “good kid from Kansas” - he’s way way weirder than that.
@truejim And in '66, Batman was having a surfing contest with the Joker.
I prefer the modern interpretation because Clark very much is NOT a human, but he is adopted among us. He grew up like one of us, went to school like one of us, and he faces the same problems with his job and love life that we do. Despite his godlike powers allowing him to take what he wants, Clark became somebody who could embody the best of humanity while not biologically being a member of it.
That's what Man of Steel and most cynical takes get wrong. Superman doesn't look down on us. Clark looks up into the sky with us.
@@truejim @Raven Wilder Obviously everyone is talking about Post-Crisis Superman. None of us here grew up on the old radio series, or the first 50 years of Superman comics.
The not having a secret identity is presented well in Iron Man 3. The villains knew where he lived and how they could hurt (Happy and Pepper) in order to get at Tony. Although I like that not everyone has a secret identity. It's like you really can't notice Steve's jaw when he is Captain America. And someone like Tony is a narcissist. He wants thr world to know he is iron man and as he said privatized world peace
I like that it's only a small handful like spiderman and daredevil who opt for the secret identity. It makes the stories that rely on having a secret identity the most stand out more. It's also kinda realistic. I doubt most people's first instinct after getting superpowers would be to make a secret identity. Mine wouldn't.
Mine would be using them for personal gain without hurting any innocent citizens or taking unnecessary risks.
Tbf I would as i'd wouldnt want to be bothered by the world to use my powers lmao.
Anyone remember Arrow? Soooo many side plots about Oliver trying to protect his identity and then everyone figures it out in 5 minutes anyways.
I'm glad MCU mostly did away with secret identity plots.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo Yeah I'd basically become a Robin Hood type figure. Take down the REAL villains, the super-rich. And donate anonymously to all sorts of needs. Keeping enough for myself to live well enough to be comfortable but not so much as to stand out.
@@dipperdandy communist spotted.
I think both universes (DC and Marvel) should have a mix of both. Different kinds of heroes with different ways they operate. Some like Spiderman need a secret identity and some like Captain America (a man out of time) it doesn't matter as much to. Peter Parker wants to help people, but also just be a normal person. Tony Stark is a billionaire who doesn't separate his superhero persona from himself and he doesn't really need to. He is in a much different situation than Spiderman. I think going forward in the MCU they should do what is best for the character and story they are trying to tell. Some with secret identities and some who don't need it. Some who think they don't need it, but realize they probably should have kept it.
Clark Kent isn't a performermance. It's who he is. He was raised to be Clark Kent and dawns Superman as a symbol for inspiration. Watch the episode "The Late Mr. Kent" in season 2 of Superman: TAS.
Comics used to recognize vigilantism as more illegal than they do now.
It's also a drama thing, it makes it easy to create contrived situations of tension based around it.
Mostly it's a holdover from when vigilantism was more realistically recognized as an illegal activity in comics, and the threat of heroes being arrested for what they were doing was more a relevant plot point in superhero stories.
It still exist to some degree, but isn't nearly as big a deal in modern comics as it used to be.
I don't think it isn't seen like that in the first phases of the MCU, it's only that: who can oppose what in essence are the most powerful people on earth?, That's pretty much what the whole civil war movie is about
"But I AM Clark! I NEED to be Clark! I'd go crazy if I had to be Superman all the time!" ~ Clark Kent, Superman TAS.
That, Sir, is the ultimate counterargument against this entire video's thesis.
That's a terrible episode.
He doesn't need a secret identity to be Clark. He's Clark 24/7. Except sometimes Clark wears a supersuit instead of an office suit.
@@Carabas72 Whatever you think of the episode itself, that line remains a central truth about the character.
Recall how he says this in a scenario where it is believed that Clark Kent is dead, and even his own parents - who know him better than anyone - suggest that it might be a good thing to not bother with a secret identity anymore. Clark's counterargument is that having to be Superman all the time - as in, having to be the ultimate symbol of good who saves the world and fights injustice before retreating an isolated palace at the North Pole - is not the sort of life he could live.
Your response agrees that Clark Kent is the real identity, and that's the point. If Nerdstalgic's paraphrasing of Tarantino were true - that Clark is Superman's parody of humanity - then Superman would have no need for it other than to indulge in some weird inside joke that only he gets. I think we can both agree, though, that said assessment misses the point. It makes the same mistake so many people make in focusing on Superman as something more than human, something like unto a god. If Superman is a god among men, why does a god need to walk among mortals?
The point is that Superman is not a god. Even at his most powerful, he still has humanity to him, including the need and desire to just live a normal life, something he could never do if he ditched the secret identity and spent all of his time in spandex.
The video asks why superheroes need secret identities. There are as many answers as there are characters, but in the case of Superman, that line sums it up: because he is not Superman, he is Clark Kent. On that, I think, we can both agree.
@@omniviewer2115 I liked that episode. Especially the end when the "bad guy" finally realizes that Clark Kent IS Superman just before he gets gassed in the Gas Chamber.
Something more in a "real world" context, without a secret identity, the heroes put every "normal" person in their world in danger. This was touched on briefly in the most recent Spider-Man movie and Peter being publicly "outed" as Spider-Man. His family had to essentially go into hiding at Happy Hogan's apartment because their home was no longer safe from reporters and vandals. When he revealed his identity in the comics, the family had to live in Avenger's Tower for safety because anywhere else would have been a target for every hero Spidey ever faced, trying to get at his family. In fact, when a sniper did shoot Aunt May, Peter beat the living hell out of the Kingpin while he was still in prison. The same happened at DC when Superman revealed his identity. The Justice League had to essentially make the Kent Farm and Lois and Clark's home more secure than Fort Knox with all kinds of off-world technology just to keep them safe from Superman's foes. Also, the heroes need a secret identity to be able to be "human" for a while. To turn off the icon, not be on call and just have a sandwich and watch TV for a little while.
My favorite take on secret identity was when Ben Tennyson revealed he didn't like being famous and wished he had his secret identity back showing you that some heroes generally like having a low profile and helping others for the sake of helping others.
I just can’t imagine Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, nor Daredevil without their secret identities
It's very easy to imagine because in the comics, they all have gone without secret identities from time to time.
@@Carabas72 Even so, it’s even easier to imagine how much worse each of their lives would be without
@@DCUniverse816
Their lives would be even better if they weren't superheroes at all. The quality of their lives is not really a useful measurement for what makes a good story.
@@Carabas72 Says you :P
I find it interesting that it is never considered, that in this day and age, the idea of a "secret identity" may be untenable. The more fantastic the actions of someone, the more camera and other footage is going to capture said person. "Ring" cameras, mobile phones, police body cameras, CCTV, satellite imagery, all sorts of things are going to pick up people doing "unusual" activities, and over time the identity can become exposed.
So perhaps it would be useful to show that somehow, and it to feature as a storytelling device. It also greatly factors into analysis of the characters - is Bruce Wayne really moral when he is a billionaire living in a world where people are struggling?
Hey, it's superman! *Puts on glasses in front of everyone* Hey Clark, you missed Superman!
Protect their families, friends and loved ones.
Exactly. That's also the reason why I dislike the ultimate verse and the MCU.
By and large, their families, friends, and loved ones are ALSO superheroes and secret agents.
@@ravenwilder4099 exactly aunt May is a agent. Uncle Ben is an agent. And go on lmao. This comment is pure ignorance.
Those are called in universe or in text reasons, this video is about narrative reasons. The narrative reasons are why the writer chooses to write something, the in text reasons are why the character chooses to.
@@Emirthemarvelfanboi I said "by and large". Spider-Man is the exception.
The best example is Peter, we connect with him the most,during his personal struggles as Peter Parker, the man behind the mask.
While we also connect and understand him more when he's Spider-Man, the man who wears the mask.
I kinda feel like Luke Cage needs a secret identity too, but I can't imagine him looking good in a mask, but we see how it was problematic for him to not have one and not because people came for him in public or hurt his friends, random people would hit him up on the street all the time asking for help.
The hood was a temporary mask for him, yet, after he said his name, it didn't matter
He just needed to out himself within his choice, not to run and hide but finally stand up
Are you speaking of the comics or the netflix Cage?
The comic book Cage was a "Hero for Hire", so you had to pay him for his help. He didn't have a secret identity (and his "real identity" was presumed dead.) Which worked for him, since he was a prison escapee. It does make me wonder, though...did Iron Fist have a secret identity when he was teamed up with Cage in the comics or did everyone know he was Danny Rand?
Superman is the performance , not Clark Kent. He grew up a regular kid on a farm.
Reeve's Clark is definitly a performance, Cavill's and Hoechlin's Clark are the real guys
Your Superman is so backwards if you actually read his comics or watch anything but the movies. Clark is the person Clark wants to be and is. He is a farmboy that got his dream job who helps others with anyway he can. Superman is the persona. Superman is who Clark needs to be to help others everyway he can, no matter how big or small the problem is.
❤
Honestly I disagree that Superman is the real persona, as Ive always thought that Superman and Clark are one in the same person not exactly persona's like Batman and Bruce Wayne but more like that Superman is an identity but *not the true identity* , clumsy Daily Planet Clark is a performance, and Clark Kent the farm boy from Smallville is a perfect balance of both and the real identity, if that makes sense?
Frankly I think superhero secret identities is simple when you think about it. Secret identities are necessary for characters that needs them, Batman, Superman, Spiderman Daredevil etc.. all have something, someone that they value or love and needd to protect that since they operate in a dangerous world with dangerous people.
Clark Kent/Superman is about having work-life balance.
Batman/Bruce Wayne is about trying to save Gotham in two different ways.
Besides the Kill Bill 2 explanation for Superman, I do agree the MCU is already done with the secret identity trope (not to say it can’t be good, but it depends on what character they’re writing and the core aspects they’re trying to show the viewer) if anything these monikers are kind of similar to Doctor Who.
They’re ideals that they strive to earn or let others know they’re there to help, of course my example comes to pieces if you pick someone like The Thing, or someother outrageous name, but I think it makes sense.
Kill Bill is not a explanation of Superman
@@ninjanibba4259 Of course not! A guy who kills people for a living probably assumes the worst about them, including all their role models.
The reason I will forever admire Zack Snyder and Henry Cavill’s take on Superman is that they have taken Clark Kent and made HIM a persona, rather than Superman.
In those few films, Superman becomes a symbol of hope. But behind that symbol stands a man with his own humanly feeling and emotions - and a constant conflict of needing to live up to that flawless symbol of hope he never really is until he dies to Doomsday.
Humanly?
Not all heroes like being in the limelight. I'm currently writing my own superhero storyline. They all have a debate with the government why some expose themselves and others hide.
Secret identities are one of my favorite parts of the DC characters. Marvel lacks them so I’m hoping the DCU utilizes them well
Fantastic video! I love toward you guys tackle the idea that superheroes now exist to rack in the cash as where before they were made to inspire hope in a down trodden society.
I PRAY that James Gunn knows this or will realize this and capture that with his new Superman movie. Sups is literally this idea incarnate 🤞
Recent Superman lore has shifted to make Clark Kent the true persona and Superman the act, usually to emphasize Clark’s humanity and innate goodness. Kingdom Come did a great job of showing what happens if Superman leaves Clark behind which, I suppose, reinforces your point.
I think more than anything, what has changed is that people now are far more able to see how incredibly toxic secret identity dynamics can very quickly become, where the hero is constantly gaslighting and lying to their loves one.
What has also changed is that the audience is far older than it was back when these characters were created, and this kind of secret identity is a lot cooler to a kid than to an adult.
I always liked the idea that Clark Kent it's the true identity and superman was the persona, whereas Bruce Wayne is the persona and Batman is the true identity.
I think the issue is that a lot of marvel superheroes are no longer meant to be a reflection of society and humanity, but rather a persona of those who are meant to save humanity. They’re no longer people, they’re celebrities, politicians, and generally just famous.
I don’t think Captain America has a secret identity in the comics and it makes sense that he wouldn’t. He was given a serum by the government and plenty of people witnessed him take the serum and he fought in World War 2 and during that time, superheroes weren’t a big thing. He also worked for the government during World War 2, so it makes sense that he wouldn’t have had a secret identity. And because of who he was, it wouldn’t make sense for him to have a secret identity.
I mean to me it just makes sense to have a secret identity because why would you want to increase the risks of your loved ones to just get hurt by all your villains.
The debate over secret identities is complicated. If I had functional superpowers, I probably wouldn't worry about maintaining a secret identity, but I would without a doubt in my mind definitely go the supervillain route, so that's probably not the best example.
🤣🤣🤣
It depends, for me. If I have "Superman" or anything near that type of powers I might not care about a secret ID. But if I have say, "Spider-Man" level powers, I'd definitely keep that a secret.
@@zootopiawilson I'd love to agree with you but I just can't say the same. I'd go full M.Bison with A-tier powers like Superman or Spiderman. But even if I had breadomancy, rocket launcher hands, mostly perfect recall, techno signal interference, or Dr. Dolittle skills, I don't like it but I know in my heart of hearts the first thing I'd do is find a way to wreck havoc.
@@RidireOichei rather be nuetral, under radar, but other than that, my gains and wreaking havoc would take place eventually
Supervillains need secret identities, too, to hide from police, informants, and witnesses.
Captain America does struggle with the contemporary world outside of filling a notebook with stray movie titles he needs to catch up on.
Haha I was thinking about this the other day. Ever notice how there isn't many DC superheroes whose identities are known to the public where as with Marvel half if not most the general public knows.
Captain America works just fine without a secret identity.
Why is a secret identity needed? You remember ''The Incredibles'' where Mr Fantastic saves a guy who later goes on to sue him? You better believe that is a realistic outcome in 2023.
secret identities for many superheroes in the marvel universe feels unnecessary except for Spider-man.
That is the thing I like about "The Boys" - the "heroes" are who they are all of the time. No alter ego.
That's because the "superheroes" are all corporate mascots and celebrities, not masked amateur detectives, like in all other comics and films.
2:12 Clark Kent is the real persona of Superman, not the other way around! Clark is the boy who Jonathan and Martha raised and gave his morals. Superman is just tool Clark uses to help people and use his abilites without compromising his personal life. In his heart, he still the kind, optimistic farm boy from Kansas.
I would love to see more focus on secret identities! Being able to glimpse the other half of superheroes opens up some really cool stories. Though if they do it i feel they probably would adapt it to tv since they’d have more time to tell the story.
Clark is who he is. He's a farm boy from Kansas. Superman is the performance he does to show people how we all should be. Batman IS the real person. Bruce Wayne died in that alley along with his parents. But I do think Batman uses Bruce Wayne as an anchor to not go TOO far over the edge.
Exactly, it's a kind of spectrum those two operate on to varying degrees
People always go on and on about how Bruce Wayne pretends to be an irresponsible playboy when he isn't donning the cowl and cape, yet, with the exception of the Nolan trilogy, Bruce Wayne is usually pretty heavily involved in both charity and city politics. In the animated series, he even has a very hands-on role in-running Wayne enterprises. The nolen trilogy has literally the only version of Bruce Wayne I've seen where he pretends to be a party hard, trust-fund fuckboy (Gotham doesn't count.)
We need more superhero movies like Logan. It's got a very simple premise, and the whole movie is carried by the relationship between the cast of characters. This focus on character development and showing the human side of heros makes the movie feel more impactful and powerful. Not every movie needs to have a huge world-ending conflict to be compelling.
Logan was a boring, predictable Western plot.
@@ShadowSonic2yet was a fresh splash in the superhero genre at that time.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with the idea that superheroes need a secret identity to give them a connection to humanity. Don't get me wrong, secret identities definitely still have a place in superhero media (as a way of exploring the separation between public and private selves, for example,) but aren't necessary to create a human connection. The DCAU, for example, creates empathy between the audience and superheroes by showing their interactions with each other, rather than day-to-day citizens.
In fact, I think there's an argument to be made that the phasing out of secret identities may be reflective of our own decay of privacy. In an age of camera phones and social media, our actions are constantly being judged by the masses, both the good and the bad. Much like internet philanthropists, Tony Stark's actions are constantly being judged by the people of Earth in the MCU. He gets lots of praise for his actions as both Tony Stark and Iron Man, but more than a few villains also use him as a scapegoat for perceived wrongdoings. There was even a running joke online that all of Peter Parker' villains were simply people who blamed their actions on Tony Stark.
I’m just happy NerdStalgic Dropped a video
Completely missing the point of Superman, the whole idea of him is just that he's a guy from a small town wanting to do the right thing. He's super because of his morals, his empathy and kindness, etc. The best portrayals get this part of his character right, go watch S1 of Superman and Lois, or read Superman: for all seasons, both great representations of the characters core imo.
One thing a lot of people forget is that in the early 2000s, the secret identity trope was played out and tired. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: “Oh no, the villain has found my secret identity, and they’re going to a) hurt my loved ones, b) tell everyone, or c) blackmail me into helping them by threatening to do a or b.” Almost every single Spider-Man movie does one of those things, most movie Supermen and Batmen have had to deal with it one way or the other, and every Spider-Man knockoff has it in spades. It’s an easy drama shortcut that critics and audiences lauded the death of when Iron Man declared himself Iron Man in 2008. Since then, Daredevil has done it really well, so it’s clearly not a valueless trope, but do I wish every superhero movie had the same such plot strokes to deal with? Not at all.
Superheroes operate in almost the same way as cops. And there are instances where the families and loved ones of police officers are targeted due to their connection with one another, the same also applies to superheroes.
The main difference is resources, even if some crime boss puts a hit on an officer's family the local PD has assets networks that could potentially intercept that information and secure the safety of both the officer and their family.
Superheroes, on the other hand, usually don't have that luxury. Not to mention the threats they handle are typically on a supernatural level. They operate as an independent entity, so they have more bases to cover in terms of their own safety. Take Peter Parker as an example, during Civil War he revealed his identity to the public, but right after his falling out with Tony and he moved his family back to the suburbs Kingpin puts a hit on him and subsequently led to One More Day. And that's just the tragedy of a street-level superhero. Moving up the scale you get stories like from Injustice and how The Joker tricked Superman into killing Lois.
The evils that most superheroes face just aren't worth divulging to the average person let alone to those who are close to them.
That's like Yugi and Yami Yugi. Yami was confident and bold and yugi was shy and introverted.
I believed it depends on the character. If you're just a regular guy I think it's necessary, but if you're a billionaire or some kind of government agent then no.
Dr. Strange doesn't have much to worry about despite being a regular guy because his community is pretty much a secret and he usually doesn't go after regular criminals. Most of his enemies are other wizards or monsters from other universes.
I've barely read any X-Men, but I can't even tell in the comics if they have secret identities or not and this video makes a good point. If the general public already hates mutants you would think they would keep their identities a secret.
For 40 years the X-Men usually hid themselves, but then Xavier got outed as a Mutant on Live TV and he decided not to brainwash everyone into forgetting because he felt it was wrong to hide himself and his school anymore and he was willing to accept the danger.
Fun thing about Marvel's Civil War arc in the comics, it was more about secret identities and whether superheroes should have one. It surrounds a law that was put in place, and the supes who supported or denied the law. Iron Man was in support and Spider-Man was against, as an example, which made their teaming up in the movie an interesting inversion of that. Though I didn't read the comics, I am aware of how it worked, if not the nitty-gritty. I believe one of the games may have been based on the Civil War, if I'm not mistaken.
Well said, Nerdstalgic.
Superheroes need secret identities because villains and people in power will use the people close to them to try and control them. A smaller but still important reason is because the superheroes still want a normal life.
This just makes me want a better dc universe all the more
So you could tell 2 stories with a single character. Talk about a 2 for 1 deal
I don’t think Captain America ever had a secret identity.
The most important part about the secret identities of super heroes is that it makes them anonymous heroes, when no one knows who they are their heroic deeds are never about the glory or fame or reward no even gratitude, it becomes all about putting other people in first place, an explame of this is the comic "Unscheduled Stop" when Spider-Man saved a group of people that were underground and only he could help, while Spider-Man may get the applause and criticism Peter Parker goes home and is the ordinary joe, plus the secret identity is alos there to proctect the hero's love one ones, people like Ironman and the Avengers may have the Chance to be public figures, but with out DareDevil Matt Murdock's friends would always be at danger, the secret identity is the ultimate expresion of a hero, is there to be a symbol, to not take credit, and to proctect others as the hero and normal guy.
Oh I already know this is gonna be a good one
I agree with most of the vid, but um when it comes to Sups... Superman is his persona... Its the image Clark projects to symbolyze hope and goodness and all that jazz... But the real guy there is the dorky farmboy with a heart of gold. He needs the alter ego, cause being a symbol is not living. The fact most people dont understand that is why most adaptations of superman fall flat
Why was the talk about superman's identity ripped straight out of Kill Bill?😂
People please, superman doesn't pretend to be clumsy because that's how he sees us.
And superman isn't even the real him.
The only time Clark gets to be Himself are around people that know that he is just an alien from smallville
I really enjoyed the analysis on the dichotomy and what it represent. However, I must note that the CK being a costume felt a bit pre-crisis to me. Clark Kent is also a personally developed through upbringing and experiences, so he is as much, if not more, of an identity as Superman.
I think that some of the marvel writers sort of fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the secret identities. Secret identities, at least to the extremes that they are maintained in comics, tv shows, and movies, don't make a lot of sense internally, but they make a whole lot of sense as narrative devices.
I get why a superhero might not want the public to know who they are, but the primary issue I've always had with secret identities when it comes to suspension of disbelief is the idea that they can't tell anyone, even those closest to them, because doing so will "put their lives at risk". It's bananas when you think about it for two seconds. Their life is *already* at risk because you hang out with them. If anyone else figures out who you are they will use these people against you and, since you tend to save these people preferentially and even show affection and favoritism to them publicly *as your superhero persona* you are putting their life at risk even if no one ever figures out your secret identity.
All you are ensuring is that they have no idea that they are in danger or why, and when you see these friends and romantic interests and the like getting kidnapped every two seconds, always completely in the dark as to why they always just happen to be in these supervillains' crosshairs, the superhero, to me at least, starts to look like kind of a dick by bringing these people into their drama. They never tell them what is going on, never give them a chance to make their own decision as to whether this friendship or relationship or whatever is worth that risk, and never give them the chance to physically and psychologically prepare themselves for the risks that their relationship with the superhero will bring. Hell, whenever one of these people do start to suspect something, they often basically gaslight them to maintain the status quo of the relationship.
They are essentially robbing their friends and family of their autonomy and then justifying it by pretending they are protecting them. This is made worse by the fact that the most prominent of these people is usually a romantic interest who the person will consciously court, date, get serious with, and sometimes even marry, who they often didn't know before they got their powers, never telling them what they are getting into. The sacrificing superhero would be foregoing relationships, only bringing people close when they feel like they can trust them with their secret, not just having all those relationships and keeping the people closest to them in the dark about the most dangerous part of their life "for their protection".
Of course I know *why* this is done. Part of the fantasy of Spiderman is that he lives a normal life just like you do but he secretly has these amazing powers. When the bullies push him around, he is just pretending to take it to protect everybody from dangers only he can protect them from, and you can pretend that is you when the bullies push you around. Spiderman's secret identity is about making him relatable, and about making that power fantasy grounded in a way that allows you to imagine that you could be this powerful superhero walking around and nobody would know, not the guys who pick on you, not your friends who think your kind of a goofball, not that girl you have a crush on that doesn't notice you now but might after you were forced to save her from monsters a few times...for some reason that definitely wasn't your fault.
That's why you can't tell the people closest to you. The fantasy doesn't work if Lois is interested in Clark *because* he is Superman. She has to go from ignoring him to falling for him without knowing he's Superman, over time as his Supermanly personality traits manifest themselves. Same for other characters who eventually learn the superhero's secret. Part of the fantasy is that, because of the secret identity, the hero's powers may grant them access to things regular kids fantasize about, like a chance to sweep their crush off their feet, but, since they have to navigate those situations as their secret identity, it is still "them", and not super-them, who gets the girl or impresses their friends or outsmarts the villain whatever the scenario is, which means that, if only given a chance, it could also be the reader.
I like this device as much as the next comic fan but, with the explosion and branching out of the superhero genre, I had kind of hoped to see it played with, reinvented, and subverted in interesting ways that either replicated, paid homage to, or parodied the experience that the original trope was meant to create, rather than just either abandoning it entirely or replicating it whole cloth on a case by case basis. I actually think that the Marvel Spiderman movies handled this pretty well.
He immediately tells his best friend, which is 100% believable, and then he does actively suppress his interest in MJ because he doesn't want to put her at risk. However, she isn't the type to be meekly pursued so when she takes the reigns and refuses to be sidelined for her protection, Peter tells her everything so she is fully aware what she is getting herself into...and she isn't impressed. He's lucky she likes him and so is willing to put up with all these supervillains and the terrifying experience of being swung around the city like a tetherball. Her reaction is a far cray from Lois Lane in awe at the experience of flying, and I thought that was a cool subversion that still did the job. Spiderman put Peter in the situation that allowed him to talk to MJ, but her interest in him never had anything to do with Spiderman and still doesn't when he tells her. It accomplishes the same aim of the secret identity fantasy, in a more compressed timeline that makes more sense internally and seems less like a dick move from the superhero.
I very much wish they hadn't embraced the Mephisto mind wipe canon, or at least had waited much longer to do so, because I really wanted to see Peter, Ned, and MJ as an integrated super-team for a while. I think it could open up interesting narrative possibilities...or it could just be another way to revive the perpetual secret identity trope.
Clark isn't the performance... He was raised as Clark Kent before becoming Superman. Superman is the performance.
What always fascinated me is because The Avengers didn't have secret identities, Hawkeye had to have a secret family instead.
...Hold up.
Aside from when Cap was introduced in the forties, did he *ever* have a secret identity? I remember him having one during wartime, but after that was over Steve Rogers was pretty well known as Captain America. And what use would he have for a secret identity anyway? He often worked closely with the government/military or Avengers who weren't easy targets to lash out at and get to him. For as long as I can remember Steve and Cap have *been one and the same* and I think even THOR had more of a secret identity than him sans the Donald Blake origin because he occasionally used that origin NAME as a means to live in the human world.
I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that Captain America and Steve Rogers have two distinct lives. As soon as he came out of the ice in the comics I'm pretty sure he never bothered trying to split his life in two.
In the comics until around the 90s he did try to use Steve Rogers as a secret identity so he could go out and try to connect with people without the Cap thing getting in the way, but around the 90s he gave up on it and just decided to give up on having a fake Civilian ID
Both Batman and the publicly-known version of Bruce Wayne are performances. The real person is the one who is the Batcave, talking to Alfred or Oracle.
Honestly, I don't see how most of these stories would benefit more from a secret identity, as opposed to not having one.
-Black Widow's shame for her past is more heavy because she can't hide who she is.
-Bruce Banner receives the judgment for Hulk's body count.
-Thor would only be hiding his identify from Midgard by being Donald Blake, but most of his stories take place in the other realms or in space. And if he hid his identity from Jane we would be having a repeat of Peter Parker's relationship problems.
-Iron man could be interesting being a billionaire, but we also got fun stuff like him having parties while using the suit. I don't think stuff like that had been done in superhero movies before. Plus there's the "I am Iron man" thing.
-And I think it's more powerful that Steve Rogers doesn't hide that he is Captain America. A scrawny kid from Brooklyn is the symbol of righteousness. That's pretty cool and interesting to me.
-The X-Men's thing is that they want to show and be proud of who they are.
The only Marvel hero I can think of right now, who's stories are better because of the duality of a secret identity, is Spider-Man.
Now, on the DC side, I would be opposed to superman and batman not having secret identities.
The best superhero movies are the ones that don't look like superhero movies
Not exclusively
“The mask isn’t for you.
It’s to protect the people you care about.”
Same reason internet users without facecam need usernames; privacy.
Look at how many celebs get approached in the street when they're out and about, and even the ones that don't get random pics taken of them.
So shift the idea to people who want to remain relatively anonymous in what they do, and it makes some level of sense.
Take for example Banksy who we're not entirely sure who he is or Cia who never appears in her music videos or Daft Punk who made their anonymity their identity.
I think the MCU's approach is the most realistic for the circumstances and the times. Secret identity as a comic narrative can be pulled along over years, but a movie getting its pacing ruined by the need to hide identity is a bummer, and also doesn't make sense for most of the heroes presented. I think MCU has generally been good about secret identities depending on the characters.
Iron man is rich enough and cocky enough to not need a secret identity. Who is he protecting? By openly being iron man, he is forced to deal with the results of his actions as both iron man and tony stark. His growth into learning who those two identities are becomes a constant public affair. Captain America is a soldier, so he needs no secret identity either. The Hulk is half the time presented as a threat to society, so his identity being outed makes sense as well. Dr. Strange is another character who has no need to hide his identity is not imperative to their story.
Overall it seems well thought out that someone like daredevil or spider-man would have reasons to protect their identities to maintain two different lifestyles. Especially in the age of social media where realistically hiding an identity is harder, and the idea that a suit and a pair of glasses is enough to confuse most people.
The heroes who have no secret identities represent their power and all of the consequences that come with their power and their actions. They can't hide from it by pretending to be someone else. They couldn't run from the sokovia accords. Every action and choice was subject to public scrutiny, and they couldn't just put on a disguise and go grab a cup of coffee while people debate it all. I find that more compelling in the end.
The birthday on Thor driver license was supposed to be the day I was born but ended up being born 3 days early.
you are awesome buddy!!! just one thing i want to highlight, Superman is the mask & Clark Kent is real person, its the other way round with Batman though.
The best examination of this idea was done in the movie Hancock. We saw a publicist/marketing person trying to create a heroic persona.
Best thing about No Way Home is that Spidey will have a secret identity even from other heroes
I remember people cheering in the cinema when he said those words "I am ironman"
How could a channel this big not know that Clark Kent's glasses and hair curl are the biggest secret in comic history.
It depends on the character. It was absurd that Tony Stark said " i'm not ironman. I just build the armors and pay the guy, so the easiest way to destroy Ironman is by killing me or destroying my company, but i'm 100% not Ironman"
But others like Spiderman or cap can't have a quiet moment when they identities are public. Also, in the MCU Hawkeye has to keep his family in a farm in the middle of nowhere. In the Ultimate Comics version having SHIELD agents protecting his house 24/7 was useless when a nefarious organization went afyer him.
So yes, most of them need keep their identities in secret.
I think Marcus from cosmonaut said it perfectly.
Superman was a man before being a superhero. He was raised in earth and learned to be a human before being superman. Batman on the other hand, is batman first. He didn't live a normal human life since his parents were taken from him at a young age.
Superman is the mask of Clark Kent whereas Bruce Wayne is the mask of Batman. The idea is that (implied or not, even true or not in the universe at the time) these relations reflect the divergent nature of the two. Bruce is a human that has grown to hate humanity and has symbolically abandoned it, embracing darkness. Clark Kent on the other hand is an alien that has largely embraced the ideas of humanity (in some continuities, he has gone so far as to embrace them for a lack of morality in his Kryptonian heritage e.g. in Smallville, many Kryptonians believe him to be weak for caring for the puny humans), and finds strength in the light.
Oh wow! I've never thought of these two characters that way. Mind if I quote from you?
I actually love that they don't have secret identities. It lets us tell all new kinds of new stories and it removes a lot of the unessesary drama. I grew up with Smallville and the X-Men animated series being one of my first bits of superhero media. In Smallville, the fact that Clark's identiy and powers had to be kept secret was the biggest reccuring plot point. When I dipped my toe into the Arrowverse with the Flash and Supergirl shows, I was already super tired of the secret identities. All the interpersonal drama and misunderstandings and missed chances. It always felt so manufactured that they kept those secret identities and ruined the pacing for me.
I love Spiderman, but it always bothered me that he would have so much trouble balancing his superhero duties with keeping himself fed and afloat because he didn't have time to be just Peter and being Spidey didn't pay. With the MCU's take on things, the superhero is just who the character is. And balancing being a person and being a symbol is seen in a much more internal and symbolic way. But I really appreciate that not much time is wasted on secret identity drama and having to sneak around outside of Spiderman and shows like Daredevil. And if I'm still horny for good ol' idendity shenanigs, well, I've been following Miraculous Ladybug for forever and I think that coveres that and then some.
I think without the secret identities we can really connect with the characters and enjoy them being written three-dimensionally, rather than as a metaphore or a plot device.
If you think about it, how hard would it be to keep a secret identity? Spiderman was exposed in Far From Home and No Way Home, and look how things took for the worst for him. In Man Of Steel he lacks the dual identity where he was a drifter, every time he uses his powers to save somebody he disappears, people like Lois and Zod knew his secret. Smallville got away with the no secret identity because it was a prequel.
100% hard disagree
The superheroes like super man, spider man and others have because they know that can and will target friends and family to get back at them…they also require jobs to earn money like everyone and a secret identity can to live a semi-normal life.
Whereas superheroes like the fantastic four and Iron man either technically don’t see themselves as superheroes/don’t want to be seen as vigilantes by the authorities or just don’t see a real need for it.
Really when it comes to superheroes and secret societies it’s a real case by case scenario
Clark Kent is the real person, he was raised as a human and raised on earth superman is his persona
I'm not sure how anyone would manage to maintain a secret identity in this day and age. You can't just change in a phone box anymore, first they don't exist but second even if you can avoid being seen on camera, you can't avoid being tracked from the last camera you were caught on to the next. You definitely can't avoid all the people filming on their GPS enabled smartphones, and eventually someone is going to notice that one person seems to be in proximity just before superhero appears. Let's be honest reddit detectives would have it solved in 30 minutes. Think you're safe flying from your private island at mach 3? Err satellites, radar, the government will definitely know who you are, as well as at least a few private organisations... and anyone with access to weather satellites.
I wonder (just thinking here) if the advent of social media has anything to do with this. Before, superheroes had to make sacrifices and split their identity in two to keep their loved ones safe - it was selfless, it was noble, it was the right thing to do. Now, everything is online and people gp from anonymous to 15+ minutes of fame so quickly; this lack of secret identities could be either a reflection of how we've given up a bit on the idea of privacy (at least, what privacy used to be) and/or we're in an era where we *want* our name attached to our achievements.
In the past, a hero taking uo a secret identity was selfless; today, maybe it's silly/redundant?
1:28 notice how it shows Ezra Miller when he says "flaws"
I would say you're wrong about clark kent/superman. I think it's why no one can do a movie right in recent times.
Kal-el was adopted by humans who give them the name Clark Kent. He grew up as clark kent, but learns his roots once he gets older. He balances to be both.
There are many reasons to have a Secret Identity and a Public Persona. The Persona can be a mantle, a symbol, bigger than the person inhabiting it is normally. The secret identity can be a means to keep dangerous enemies from targeting you or your loved ones.
But i think the MCU's lack of secret identities is either directly more sinister, or indicative thereof. Specifically as an implicit death of privacy. nowadays with how many things connected to the internet with microphones and cameras, and Data analytics, and the collective efforts of curious people on the internet; it would be functionally impossible to maintain a secret identity. It would take Reddit or 4chan a week at most to figure out who someone is. and the MCU basically invites a tacit acceptance of everyone knowing your business.
I think it's weird that the clip of MCU spiderman was used as a point for mavel heroes not needing secret identities, when the next film he was in thematically an literally revolved around him wanting to keep his secret identity.
I agree with most of the points of the video, but that was something that struck me.
Also, Superman is a mask for Clark just as much as Batman is a mask for Bruce... IMO.
That movie points out he didn't need to mindwipe the world, he could've just appealed MiT's decision to deny him and his friends.
IE, Peter could have gone on with his ID exposed. He just didn't realize he was causing problems for himself.
The Hulk isn’t a terrorist.
and this is why "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" is a step in the right direction
Moon Girl has her secret identity as Lunella Lafayette, and is given a deeper connection to humanity by having her family own a skating rink
Glad finally someone said it. It all depends on the character. Some characters are Gods, and by definition Gods aren't human. Hence, they need to have secret personas when living in the human world, to give a performance so as to show compassion for the human race.
But characters who are more humanised, and who need to feel human in order to fulfil their purpose, need to have a strong human rooting and life.
But when you make the transition from one to another, like Iron Man so abruptly & weirdly did at the end of Iron Man 1, you somehow lose the essence of both. You really need to pick a side and stick to it.