I'll bet that keyboard warrior won't link a video to show his skills with the similar stones and strop with the same tests, or even admit he was wrong.
Nice vid. You're right, it's not impressive test. My opinion: "once the knife is sharp, IT IS SHARP"...enough for veg & protein. The ultimate test is to place a paper or tissue on the knife blade (blade facing up) and blow on the paper. Another myth or legend (Japanese) on knife sharpness is: stick a sword into a river, place a silk cloth up stream, the water carry the silk to the blade and that's enough pressure to cut the silk.
I’ve always thought the ability to “whittle” hanging hair was more of an ultimate test. I’ve achieve it a few times. Also the ability to “S” cut through thin paper. What the heck do I know though. I sharpen to where my knives fly through veggies and that’s my test. I use. Takamura R2 Gyuto 210mm and a Wusthof classic for nearly everything. Having a microscopic ragged edge is helpful so I don’t polish past the Spyderco UF which is 3 micron or around 4K.
It seems to me that any time you move the knife fast it cuts paper great. First time I saw someone just slice paper with a swing, I though wow, then I tried it and found it demonstrated very little. I think cutting wavy lines in greasy paper, like magazine or receipt is a good indication of useful sharpness. Little curls off the edge far from your hold is fun too.
I feel that, all these people want you to pass their tests to prove that worthy of following. I think it's a sign that people care about the quality of entertainment they are investing time in. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Excellent... Just today it's been about 6 weeks with my Enso HD 5.5" Prep knife, which has been in daily use, and if it ever could, it could not pass this test.... about two dozen light passes on a Suehiro Cerax 1000, followed by about the same on a Suehiro Rika 5000, and again about the same on the strop and lo and behold, it passed the test with flying colors. This was not even a "sharpening," more just a "touch up," just to restore the edge. For me cutting onions is the best daily test. If the knife is really sharp, you won't tear.
I don't care about others criticism you have taught me a lot watching your videos & improving my knife sharpening skills over time the more I practice the better I become.
Good Video! i've cut about 30 kg of cabbage (thin stripes for salad) today with a blue steel nakiri (62-64 HRC), after cleaning everything i gave the used knife a few strokes on my self made cow leather strop, it shaved my arms hairs, easily, that's how i rate knife qualities and sharpness, paper test means nothing!
Good stuff as always, Ryky! Push cuts typically are easier to do when you have smaller microserrations, which come from higher grit stones or strops. I find that I can't often do push cuts all along an edge sharpened on my Naniwa Professional 800 and sometimes 3000, but stropping gets most knives push cutting. It seems that a "toothier" edge is less likely to push cut. I'd be curious how coarse a stone you can sharpen on and successfully push cut. I think a more difficult test of push cutting ability is to fold all the way along the edge of a piece of paper so you have a 1/2" lip standing straight up by itself when the rest of the page is flat on the table, and see if you can push cut into the lip. I use various places along the edge. To make the test tougher, fold it so that the lip is taller. Also, as someone else said, newsprint is a much tougher test than printer paper… hey, phone books are useful again! AND I've learned that paper (especially newsprint) has grain. It's easier to cut with the grain, and harder across it. I've posed a similar question in the form of a video suggestion some months back: *_What other sharpness tests do you like to use?_* Obviously, food is the real test, but it's fun (and useful) to have a variety of tests.
The reason why free standing paper is a good test is because it takes very little force to overcome resistance of paper, hence a dull knife won't cut through paper, but rather crumble paper. The thing is: A thin knife like made from Japanese steel will pass this test much easier than thicker German design knives. Also, this level of edge refinement will go away after 1 day of knife use to cut things even with proper technique and good cutting board.. Edge that is refined above 1 micron grit is fun to play with for artificial tests like this at it will last longer. A well sharpened edge up to even just 5k stone will still cut paper but it will get dull very fast. Hell, i was able to push cut paper with a hard steel knife off of 200 grit DMT plate, because of how toothy the edge was, but guess what, it will be very dull very fast. Proper technique and grits up to 6K are a far more important combination than grits into nano-meter range. I have a strop with 12.5 nano-meter CBN on it, but it does no good if the knife i sharpen is not already scarry sharp when i get above 6K water stone.
For me the best test is if I can get it shaving sharp with drag so if I run a blade down my arm or leg and I feel no hairs pulled and no tink as they're cut and in one shroke the area is completely bald with no stubble I know it's a sharp as I can possibly get it.... I've also heard that clean cutting tissue paper is the ultimate test
How long should a knife last in the kitchen before needing to be resharpened? Maybe do a fun test this way, cutting through a bunch of steaks/chicken breasts, 100 potatoes, onions etc.
Bob Kramer slightly curls a magazine paper and and cuts into the curl in the middle of the page, not on the edge, to show a knife's sharpness. I've only ever been able to sharpen one knife to this standard. While obviously very sharp, from a utility perspective, it wasn't noticeably sharper than other kitchen knives.
My own test of sharpness is to roll newspaper into a cylinder and try to cut into it (on a very shallow angle) from the side section of the tube. That test is a lot better in terms of figuring out both sharpness and appropriate bite in the edge for kitchen use.
I always thought that the katana test was the best. Place the edge facing a slow stream of running water, and allow a hair to slowly drift towards it. If the hair is cut in half, then it's as sharp as it possibly can be. It can also be done by allowing a hair to fall on an upward pointing edge.
Cutting hair gives me the most reliable sharpness feedback, easy to hard: - Shaving arm hairs (moderate pressure, some hairs remain) - Shaving arm hairs (low pressure, hairs poping) - Tree topping - Hanging hair test - Splitting hairs Allso paper contains abrasives, so you are actually dulling your knife by testing it.
not a super hard test, but importantly it relys a fair amount on blade geometry. not going to work with thick knives no matter how sharp. i typically pop arm hairs off above the skin to test, and my arm hairs have become sensitive so i can tell how sharp the edge is by how it grabbs and cuts the hair. this is totally a subjective, but ive tested lots of standards this way like feather double edged razor blades, so i personally know how sharp.my edges are compared to controlls. for demonstration on video, stick with the string test, thats the least subjective and most accurate. do a cut with some feather double edged razor blades as a controll.
if I ever get that it going to be on here. but no I'm not going on you tube till I can pass the legendary silk or wool water tests. this might try for that he's certainly close.
This is awesome! But I agree with you, it's not that hard of a test. Typical paper is stiff enough that it actually has decent rigidity folded like that, and the beginner test for a sharp knife is to cut paper like butter when held in the hand. So, folding it and standing it up is just replacing the hand...looks awesome, but the magazine paper trick was much more impressive! I've always considered whittling hair and cutting a rolled-up piece of newspaper or magazine paper standing up the "ultimate tests", short of cutting air molecules when you swing the blade ;-)
I could say that this paper teste seems better than holding the paper with the hand, because then the way you hold the paper is less of a factor. However, that little machine w the string u have seems the most reliable thing. As a researcher, what I always miss here is a BEFORE SHARPENING control with the same paper or whatever or to have a control store bought knife that would be available all over the world and not expensive.
I'm just now learning how to sharpen knives using a wetstone so my bar is set a lot lower than most people. If I can shave my arm without causing a friction burn then I'm calling it good.
the most ultiment sharpness test ive seen and you can find you tube vids concerning it ((and i want one)) is a special scale you load with cutting philliment and then it messures how much pressure it takes to cut the philliment....lower number = better sharpness
How about that test where one cut thin slices off grapes with just one hand? I don't know if it is harder, but it is satisfying to watch. Have you planned to do any sharpening videos about flexible filleting knives?
I feel the best way to do the papper test is to not fold it but to just bend the papper and cutt it along the bend (not starting from the edge of the paper but the middle ) that way the edge of the knife doesn't have an automatic point of entry only if it's sharp enough to grip that paper.
Rick your showing us how to sharpen knives never have you said your the best a knife is only as good as the person behind it thank you for sharing your knowledge with us 🙏
I had the same experience with the free-standing paper-cut test as you did. The only challenge I found was with cutting very thin phone book paper cross-grain. If you want to see how sharp you can get a knife relative to a standard measure, get your hands on a BESS tester. Like the hair and paper-cut tests, results from the BESS tester are not really practical, but at least you can say you've done it.
I think that's actually easier than the standard paper test. You're creasing the paper and weakening it, so when you cut along that crease, it's easier. Those dozens of people probably saw that one "Diaries of a Master Sushi Chef" video and assumed that that one guy was the be-all-end-all of sharpening knowledge.
This test is more for knife handling skill than it is for knife edge. For sharpness, I test a push cut, against the grain on a very cheap thin paper. I also have a rubber band test of which I loop the band on the knife and pull it against the edge. And see how much force or weight it takes to cut the band. Ofc I use a new bag of bands that are the same age and strength to have comparable results
Very nicely done dude and with fun and humor. Those vertical cuts were great. You should try diagonal cuts on news paper like this. The key with this type of cutting is not that it cuts but the fluidity and slowness in which the cut can be done. Great vid!
Practially speaking the only test I care about is will knife slice a ripe tomato without pressure and without hesitation. The best test that I have seen, however, is whether you can whittle a hair with the knife. Outdoors55 has several youtube videos where he demonstrates hair-whittling sharpness with a pocket knife. So far, I can't achieve that, but still working on it.
Some cool tests: cut a circle cut on paper, split hair (yes), shave, the one you did... The one that I did and was the harder so far was to split hair. And even this crazy test of spliting hair didn`t require more than a Chocera 400 and strop on green compound. I did it today. But of course I could do it only in a section of the blade where the sharpening came better. So going higher on stones and strop will help a lot.
Katanas were tested by seeing how many bodies of dead criminals could be cut through with one stoke. I’m sure the samurai who owned that sword probably felt invincible until he realized his opponents were live people who moved around and wore armor.
Sharpening myth busters would be good. People tend to be single minded in their metrics of what is a "good" knife, not taking into account usage and other properties like edge retention/longevity. A razor is sharp, but you wouldn't chop wood with it. Also, these tests tend to depend on technique as well...someone cutting a tatami mat with the sharpest sword and poor technique will likely do much worse than someone with an ok sword and good technique.
Well done! A test for straight razors is the free hanging hair test. I dont know if that is the right name for it. But you can find videos on it. Good luck!
Way to go Ryky. Bust them. All these tests are pointless unless the knife proves it's worth in the kitchen. After all, a person sharpens a knife so that it may perform well in the kitchen, not to cut paper or hair all day long in different styles.
The best test I know of is a hanging hair test. Why anyone would need to waste enough time to get (and worse, keep) a kitchen knife that sharp is a mystery. And of course, the "Edge On Up" testers seem to have figured out what's going on, so I think I'd go with that until someone can demonstrate otherwise.
I do remember a movie, not the title, sorry, it was a black and white movie. Two high ranks of the army were comparing swords. One of the swords was able to go through metal. The other high ranking command throws in the air a very light silk scarf (it almost did float in the air) and he let it land on the edge of the sword. The pressure of the weight was enough to cut it. It was a movie, I do not know if that scene was based on historic documents. Love your channel.
it was based on a story from the Crusades, when Richard the Lion heart met Saladin, Richard cleaved an iron bar in half with his double handed claymore and Saladin threw the scarf into the air and neatly slice it in two with his scimitar
Thank you, your memory is better than mine. Let's hope Ricky give it a go. I think it is challenging, he would have to practice the throw and also play the weight of the scarf.
impressive I must say. Slightly crazy but also humble. When I sharpen an I'm not perfect yet even though I want to be a pro I find I look at paper or paper towels I've cut to see if my blades are straight and sharp. For example if I fold a paper towel and it either takes too much force or if fuzzes anywhere I know Im not sharp enough and my blade has flaws where there are rough edges in the cut. Styrofoam is also good as the blades has to be nearly micro prefect to leave a clean edged cut. So I don't consider paper to the ultimate test but you know your knife is really good and soft materials really are best in my opinion. You see and you probably know better than me but soft materials tear crush and shred under improper edges. To prove your nay sayers try cutting silk by just dropping it on your blade and letting slide across the edge under gravity it the silk come apart cleanly well that is a legendary rapier test. Viking also of legend would drop wool in water that flowed gently over the blade. The idea was that if the edge was sharper than any razor the water itself would provide enough drag down the edge to cut the wool in two. Any blade I think is that sharp is going in a video if I ever get mine there. You should too cause that's not only a thin sharp edge but one of perfect polish that will stay while. Hence the no friction cutting. That said you should be more impressed with yourself yes as the cut looked clean to me no jagged edges and a dull blade compared to what people were saying well they aren't completely wrong. A dull knife couldn't do that that effortlessly. I can do that but not necessarily consistent yet. Every blade is different and people expect perfection but we're all human so yeah.
The better test is to take magazine paper and bring the two opposing sides together without creasing the paper and try to get your knife to cut on the rounded back still a pointless test unless the only thing you care about is how sharp you can get your knife!!! Most people like you said having a knife that will cut well for the type of work that they do most often. Whatever that happens to be
its usually news paper to stand up cut and another test is with a news paper you can fillet a layer off without going to the other side literally shaving off the words on the paper
Intersting video. I can't get my knives to cut through standing paper. The worst part is I have no idea if it's my sharpening technique, my knives, my cheap whetstone, my cutting technique or some combination of all of them.
i remember seeing a video of a well respected sharpener perform a similar test. in his demo was he did a sharpening session and attempted a similar feat with magazine paper before and after he stropped. his example was simply to show the effectiveness of a brief stropping session on leather. before the stropping the test more or less failed, after it was dropping through. ill say in his video his drop was a slower one vs a quick chop. i dont believe his demo was to be taken as a sharpness test per say, just to show the added benefit stropping can have cleaning up the edge.
I mean thats cool, but the ultamate test in my opinion is the test if you can cut a tomato without holding it, or if your a master with an insane knife you can do the same except with a bunch of grapes
push cutting toilet tissue is supposedly very difficult, also standing phone book paper. Ryky don’t sell yourself short mate! you’re very talented at free hand.
Thanks Riki,really funny video. I think that every knife sharpener as a person has his own way to test the sharpness of his blades. Many people use paper cutting test in a various forms. Me personally i test sharpness on a cigarette paper. Thin cigarette paper thanks to its little weight gives almost none resiliance against the blade. But, if you know a sharpening chanell like yours runned by the Michael Christie, he is using very interesting and completly different sharpening techniques (for example holding knife in the one hand, stone in the other hand) he is more focused on the folding every day cary knives and he is testing sharpeness of his blades on splitting human hair. I dont know how to describe it in english, its more like sliceing than splitting, see for yourself. This level of sharpness is really useless thanks to fragility of this kind of sharp blade and even thanks to natural oxidacion this ability to slice hair will disapper in a few days, but its really impresive to watch. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
To be honest, I noticed when I sharp my knife only on my 1000 grit stone works better on meats than after polishing it. Specially on meat with fat. So I think you can have different "type" of sharp knives for different purposes.
it is harder than if you hold the paper as there is almost no resistance when you cut it, it is obvious when the paper fold itself. Imagine something that can cut without any pressure, it could cut the paper just by dropping the sheet on the blade (so basically almost no weight used to cut). This would be the ultimate test but I guess no knife in the world could pass it. :-)
Well that was fun, but it taught me that if you know what you are doing you don't need 8 stones to get your tools very very sharp. Well done keep up the good work. Question I have a budget of about 150 to buy a knife, what do you suggest? I would rather get a good knife as I have several inexpensive knives. I am leaning towards an 8" chef knife. Thank you for teaching me how to sharpen knives.
The only reason people test cut paper so much has nothing to do with the abilities of the knife beyond a competent skill set It's an excuse to cut something because cutting by itself is fun. We do it to make sure there are no glitches in the process sure. Once you get past a certain level of edge expectation though, it simply like you said, makes for good entertainment. Tests like this are useful if you are learning to sharpen, and a validation of having aquired the skills necessary. If you want to rate your knives sharpness. Use the hair hanging test, and show what levels you are getting with it, there is little difficulty in cutting a hair but the way the hair responds will at least give people a universal and well known sharpness guage to compare to. Other fun tests include shaving a kiwi which can be difficult and above the level of paper cutting Slicing a tomatoo hozirontally with or without suction holding it firm, the idea is to keep the top half on top of it's self.
Awesome video Ryky...I think I’m in agreement that at some point these tests just get out of hand. Although one interesting one I’ve seen was when you just “roll” a magazine sheet like a tube and try to cut it at an angle. Anyway I’ve done it so I’m not asking you to try cuz I’m still a grasshopper in comparison to you. Take care!
Ppl have all types of weird tests. To ME if its hair poppin sharp, meaning if it will shave hair usually my arm hair its good enough for me. Your on another level with the chef an cooking use knives tho I mainly sharpen my pocket and fixed blade knives that have a more robust edge geometry. Your still the man tho!
To be honest regular paper or magazine paper isn't the hardest test, newspaper or tissue paper is generally a much harder test. Not that it matters, doing that is proof enough as to how sharp it is.
Question, can you try cutting a half tomato standing on the counter top, not using anything to stabilize the tomato. try to cut the tomato with one hand. I heard that this is the true way to test a sharpness of a blade. This test is a good functional test , using it against a fruit. I know your knives will pass. but it will be good comparison in sharpness testing to this paper test.
Look Ryky, I'm going to tell you how it is. I don't mean to bust your bubble or anything and I'm not going to sugar coat anything. But your knives........... are sharp as hell!
Funny! Your other sharpening tests were just fine. I actually like that I can hear your blades during sharpening and your cut tests. I believe that using your senses while sharpening is just as important. Thanks RyKy. Question: How about expanding to include other blades like Mundial (Brazil) or just blades from other places. I asked for a Kamikoto review before. It's Japanese steel made in China. I have a set simply because of the price point with discount. Even other known brands from Japan like Korin, MAC, Nenox, Togiharu, Misono, Masamoto.
I dont know if its ultimate, but i can do that test with a 4 usd silicon carbide stone rated at between 800-1000 grit, and newspaper strop. I think tomato cut is more difficult, the one you dont hold the tomato
I don't think that kind of test makes any sense either. To start with, we should consider that any given tool is made for a purpose. Sharper is not necessarily better. What is the point of an edge sooooo sharp, thin and delicate that it will develop micro chipping when slicing bread? Maybe if you are a sushi-God and have a sacred yanagi-ba forged under a full moon the night of a 29th February... But for a chef knife, which should be able to do many tasks it makes no sense to me. I remember a discussion with my sharpening sensei talking about straight razors. I was getting good at it and testing experimental things with finer and finer grits for polishing that edge. Some blades would not take it and roll miserably. But other would go further and further. In some point, shaving with a (for me and my kind of skin and beard hair) too sharp edge was very uncomfortable. My sensei said that it shouldn't be possible to get a too sharp edge, but years after he told me he had the sensation I described after testing some new compound. It seems like he has thinner beard hair than me (and a better sharpening technique). My -in comparison- much coarser edge was too much for me. We should have a purpose on mind when we sharpen.
Its a kitchen knife..........sharper is always better edge geometry equal. Some steel doesn't benefit from higher refinement because of grain structure or softness, namely stuff with big chromium carbides wherein you'll get carbide fallout or sub 1% carbon blades where edge stability is an issue. That being said, if you can't pass the hanging hair test with a decent carbon steel blade at 30 degrees inclusive, you shouldn't be doling out sharpening advice.............like.............telling people not to flatten their stones lol.
This is true. When I sharpen steak knives (assuming they aren't serrated) for people, I put on a very clean but not too fine edge and then I actually run a 1200 grit ceramic flat across the edge, deliberately dulling it slightly. This kind of edge will cut cooked meat quite easily (all but a tough sausage skin) but won't roll all to hell on a ceramic plate because it has already been strategically dulled. Most people are quite happy with it because unlike a shaving sharp steak knife, it actually lasts.
thats a good one. The tomato one is nice. However, tomatoes being always different dont give a reproducible measurement. So far the machine with the string he has seems the most reproducible.
The most important and ultimate sharpness test is, if you can cut a long human hair free standing up in half lengthwise. Yes, you must do this, definitely.
I have seen this testonline too and tried it as well. With printer paper its pretty easy, try it with a thin magazine paper, it is a lot more challenging.
My knives always fail doing this test, only been able to do it with a hand. I always try to go as slow as possible into the paper, I think the quicker you do it the easier it quickly bites into the paper
They say that a drop cut means your knife is sharp......I have used your method for sharpening but only a cheap 1000/3000 grit stone then strop and I get great results. Too habe a knife sharper than that is useless as far as I am concerned. Keep up the great vids. Love thos channel.
I always thought that cutting paper was a stupid test of sharpness. There's way too many variables. The minute differences in the way you hold/support the paper can make or break the test. Never mind the variation in paper types. Cheap 18lb copy paper vs good 32lb presentation quality paper, might look the same on camera, huge difference in cutability.
Come on of course its impressive, at least for those of us who only dream to make a knife that sharp. Bust I got is push cut paper whilst holding it and arm hair shaving :/
"It was quite dull it wouldn't cut an paper at all"
Every knife I've ever used.
You should learn to sharpen with stones, I practiced for a week and could do the same thing. It's pretty easy.
I hope that’s not the case anymore!
I'll bet that keyboard warrior won't link a video to show his skills with the similar stones and strop with the same tests, or even admit he was wrong.
Nice vid. You're right, it's not impressive test. My opinion: "once the knife is sharp, IT IS SHARP"...enough for veg & protein.
The ultimate test is to place a paper or tissue on the knife blade (blade facing up) and blow on the paper.
Another myth or legend (Japanese) on knife sharpness is: stick a sword into a river, place a silk cloth up stream, the water carry the silk to the blade and that's enough pressure to cut the silk.
I'm not gonna lie That would be awesome to watch a sword do that!
I thought it was a leaf. Or maybe im just thinking of some manga version of it.
If the sword cuts the scarf, it's a testament to it's sharpness. If the scarf avoids contact with the blade, it's a testament to the maker
Mrsingingdude1 I heard that one before!
DaTensay the leaf was a version of that legend or myth or folklore. You're not wrong.
I’ve always thought the ability to “whittle” hanging hair was more of an ultimate test. I’ve achieve it a few times. Also the ability to “S” cut through thin paper. What the heck do I know though. I sharpen to where my knives fly through veggies and that’s my test. I use. Takamura R2 Gyuto 210mm and a Wusthof classic for nearly everything. Having a microscopic ragged edge is helpful so I don’t polish past the Spyderco UF which is 3 micron or around 4K.
It seems to me that any time you move the knife fast it cuts paper great. First time I saw someone just slice paper with a swing, I though wow, then I tried it and found it demonstrated very little.
I think cutting wavy lines in greasy paper, like magazine or receipt is a good indication of useful sharpness. Little curls off the edge far from your hold is fun too.
I feel that, all these people want you to pass their tests to prove that worthy of following. I think it's a sign that people care about the quality of entertainment they are investing time in. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Peter XYZ Now it bears the official badge of Proven Quality :D
That was so fun watching you having fun, sometimes the worlds too serious👍😊
You are amazing! You've inspired me to buy Chosera stone and start sharpening on stones instead of lansky ))) and I'm very grateful to you!!!
Excellent... Just today it's been about 6 weeks with my Enso HD 5.5" Prep knife, which has been in daily use, and if it ever could, it could not pass this test.... about two dozen light passes on a Suehiro Cerax 1000, followed by about the same on a Suehiro Rika 5000, and again about the same on the strop and lo and behold, it passed the test with flying colors. This was not even a "sharpening," more just a "touch up," just to restore the edge. For me cutting onions is the best daily test. If the knife is really sharp, you won't tear.
Who that fuq said that
Why
Your sharpening skills are awesome 👏
Keep it up
I don't care about others criticism you have taught me a lot watching your videos & improving my knife sharpening skills over time the more I practice the better I become.
Good Video!
i've cut about 30 kg of cabbage (thin stripes for salad) today with a blue steel nakiri (62-64 HRC), after cleaning everything i gave the used knife a few strokes on my self made cow leather strop, it shaved my arms hairs, easily, that's how i rate knife qualities and sharpness, paper test means nothing!
Pfft, the true test is 30kg of cabbages shaped in a "V".
Good stuff as always, Ryky! Push cuts typically are easier to do when you have smaller microserrations, which come from higher grit stones or strops. I find that I can't often do push cuts all along an edge sharpened on my Naniwa Professional 800 and sometimes 3000, but stropping gets most knives push cutting. It seems that a "toothier" edge is less likely to push cut. I'd be curious how coarse a stone you can sharpen on and successfully push cut.
I think a more difficult test of push cutting ability is to fold all the way along the edge of a piece of paper so you have a 1/2" lip standing straight up by itself when the rest of the page is flat on the table, and see if you can push cut into the lip. I use various places along the edge. To make the test tougher, fold it so that the lip is taller. Also, as someone else said, newsprint is a much tougher test than printer paper… hey, phone books are useful again! AND I've learned that paper (especially newsprint) has grain. It's easier to cut with the grain, and harder across it.
I've posed a similar question in the form of a video suggestion some months back: *_What other sharpness tests do you like to use?_* Obviously, food is the real test, but it's fun (and useful) to have a variety of tests.
ultimate knife test... try to keep it if you're living in the UK.
RazzerKrull yeah you must watch out for those assault knives over there!! And those pesky screw drivers!!!
Got to admit that was pretty damn funny.
The reason why free standing paper is a good test is because it takes very little force to overcome resistance of paper, hence a dull knife won't cut through paper, but rather crumble paper. The thing is: A thin knife like made from Japanese steel will pass this test much easier than thicker German design knives. Also, this level of edge refinement will go away after 1 day of knife use to cut things even with proper technique and good cutting board.. Edge that is refined above 1 micron grit is fun to play with for artificial tests like this at it will last longer. A well sharpened edge up to even just 5k stone will still cut paper but it will get dull very fast. Hell, i was able to push cut paper with a hard steel knife off of 200 grit DMT plate, because of how toothy the edge was, but guess what, it will be very dull very fast. Proper technique and grits up to 6K are a far more important combination than grits into nano-meter range. I have a strop with 12.5 nano-meter CBN on it, but it does no good if the knife i sharpen is not already scarry sharp when i get above 6K water stone.
Yes! Definitely do a sharpening myth buster series. That would be great to see!!
For me the best test is if I can get it shaving sharp with drag so if I run a blade down my arm or leg and I feel no hairs pulled and no tink as they're cut and in one shroke the area is completely bald with no stubble I know it's a sharp as I can possibly get it.... I've also heard that clean cutting tissue paper is the ultimate test
If your knife can't cut through medieval plate armor, it's not sharp enough!
How long should a knife last in the kitchen before needing to be resharpened? Maybe do a fun test this way, cutting through a bunch of steaks/chicken breasts, 100 potatoes, onions etc.
Bob Kramer slightly curls a magazine paper and and cuts into the curl in the middle of the page, not on the edge, to show a knife's sharpness. I've only ever been able to sharpen one knife to this standard. While obviously very sharp, from a utility perspective, it wasn't noticeably sharper than other kitchen knives.
One of my favorite sharpness tests is being able to cut a single hair fiber hanging freely
i find it really satisfying to do anyways, letting the blade glide through the paper wit ease
The ultimate test that I have never been able to do is the air/hair test. Hold a hair in the air from the top and cut it. Love to see you do it.
My own test of sharpness is to roll newspaper into a cylinder and try to cut into it (on a very shallow angle) from the side section of the tube. That test is a lot better in terms of figuring out both sharpness and appropriate bite in the edge for kitchen use.
I always thought that the katana test was the best. Place the edge facing a slow stream of running water, and allow a hair to slowly drift towards it. If the hair is cut in half, then it's as sharp as it possibly can be. It can also be done by allowing a hair to fall on an upward pointing edge.
Cutting hair gives me the most reliable sharpness feedback, easy to hard:
- Shaving arm hairs (moderate pressure, some hairs remain)
- Shaving arm hairs (low pressure, hairs poping)
- Tree topping
- Hanging hair test
- Splitting hairs
Allso paper contains abrasives, so you are actually dulling your knife by testing it.
Why am I watching a guy cutting paper at 1AM
not a super hard test, but importantly it relys a fair amount on blade geometry. not going to work with thick knives no matter how sharp.
i typically pop arm hairs off above the skin to test, and my arm hairs have become sensitive so i can tell how sharp the edge is by how it grabbs and cuts the hair. this is totally a subjective, but ive tested lots of standards this way like feather double edged razor blades, so i personally know how sharp.my edges are compared to controlls.
for demonstration on video, stick with the string test, thats the least subjective and most accurate. do a cut with some feather double edged razor blades as a controll.
You taught me the basics. And also that the paper test is to check how clean the edge is.
The real test is folded tissue paper standing up. 😂
if I ever get that it going to be on here. but no I'm not going on you tube till I can pass the legendary silk or wool water tests. this might try for that he's certainly close.
The kitchen sponge test is the most satisfying. The less the sponge deforms the sharper the knife
This is awesome! But I agree with you, it's not that hard of a test. Typical paper is stiff enough that it actually has decent rigidity folded like that, and the beginner test for a sharp knife is to cut paper like butter when held in the hand. So, folding it and standing it up is just replacing the hand...looks awesome, but the magazine paper trick was much more impressive!
I've always considered whittling hair and cutting a rolled-up piece of newspaper or magazine paper standing up the "ultimate tests", short of cutting air molecules when you swing the blade ;-)
I could say that this paper teste seems better than holding the paper with the hand, because then the way you hold the paper is less of a factor. However, that little machine w the string u have seems the most reliable thing. As a researcher, what I always miss here is a BEFORE SHARPENING control with the same paper or whatever or to have a control store bought knife that would be available all over the world and not expensive.
I'm just now learning how to sharpen knives using a wetstone so my bar is set a lot lower than most people. If I can shave my arm without causing a friction burn then I'm calling it good.
good man
the most ultiment sharpness test ive seen and you can find you tube vids concerning it ((and i want one)) is a special scale you load with cutting philliment and then it messures how much pressure it takes to cut the philliment....lower number = better sharpness
this is so cool! Could you link us all to the vid??
How about that test where one cut thin slices off grapes with just one hand? I don't know if it is harder, but it is satisfying to watch. Have you planned to do any sharpening videos about flexible filleting knives?
I feel the best way to do the papper test is to not fold it but to just bend the papper and cutt it along the bend (not starting from the edge of the paper but the middle ) that way the edge of the knife doesn't have an automatic point of entry only if it's sharp enough to grip that paper.
Rick your showing us how to sharpen knives never have you said your the best a knife is only as good as the person behind it thank you for sharing your knowledge with us 🙏
There is a technique to cut paper even with a dull knife. I think a much better test is the free standing dry sponge and then wet sponge.
Split hair. That’s how I test.
What about biker leather rolled into a 30 layer roll we use that to demonstrate Cutco butter knives by application of pressure no swiping
I had the same experience with the free-standing paper-cut test as you did. The only challenge I found was with cutting very thin phone book paper cross-grain. If you want to see how sharp you can get a knife relative to a standard measure, get your hands on a BESS tester. Like the hair and paper-cut tests, results from the BESS tester are not really practical, but at least you can say you've done it.
Your videos are inspirational and your sharpening skills are impressive. i have learned a lot from you. My knives are now sharp ... all thanks to you.
The best test is push cut a soft tomato or soft bell peppers. See how much pressure it takes to cut through.
I think that's actually easier than the standard paper test. You're creasing the paper and weakening it, so when you cut along that crease, it's easier. Those dozens of people probably saw that one "Diaries of a Master Sushi Chef" video and assumed that that one guy was the be-all-end-all of sharpening knowledge.
This test is more for knife handling skill than it is for knife edge.
For sharpness, I test a push cut, against the grain on a very cheap thin paper.
I also have a rubber band test of which I loop the band on the knife and pull it against the edge. And see how much force or weight it takes to cut the band.
Ofc I use a new bag of bands that are the same age and strength to have comparable results
Very nicely done dude and with fun and humor. Those vertical cuts were great. You should try diagonal cuts on news paper like this. The key with this type of cutting is not that it cuts but the fluidity and slowness in which the cut can be done. Great vid!
I don't know if it s the ultimate test, but it looks like the most fun.
Practially speaking the only test I care about is will knife slice a ripe tomato without pressure and without hesitation. The best test that I have seen, however, is whether you can whittle a hair with the knife. Outdoors55 has several youtube videos where he demonstrates hair-whittling sharpness with a pocket knife. So far, I can't achieve that, but still working on it.
Some cool tests: cut a circle cut on paper, split hair (yes), shave, the one you did... The one that I did and was the harder so far was to split hair. And even this crazy test of spliting hair didn`t require more than a Chocera 400 and strop on green compound. I did it today. But of course I could do it only in a section of the blade where the sharpening came better. So going higher on stones and strop will help a lot.
Katanas were tested by seeing how many bodies of dead criminals could be cut through with one stoke. I’m sure the samurai who owned that sword probably felt invincible until he realized his opponents were live people who moved around and wore armor.
Sharpening myth busters would be good. People tend to be single minded in their metrics of what is a "good" knife, not taking into account usage and other properties like edge retention/longevity. A razor is sharp, but you wouldn't chop wood with it. Also, these tests tend to depend on technique as well...someone cutting a tatami mat with the sharpest sword and poor technique will likely do much worse than someone with an ok sword and good technique.
a lot of good comments....congrats Ryky
Didn't doubt you for a second Ryky
Question-if the paper cut test nominally reveals how clean or polished the edge is not the sharpness, how do you tell how 'sharp' a knife is?
Well done!
A test for straight razors is the free hanging hair test. I dont know if that is the right name for it. But you can find videos on it. Good luck!
Way to go Ryky. Bust them. All these tests are pointless unless the knife proves it's worth in the kitchen. After all, a person sharpens a knife so that it may perform well in the kitchen, not to cut paper or hair all day long in different styles.
The best test I know of is a hanging hair test. Why anyone would need to waste enough time to get (and worse, keep) a kitchen knife that sharp is a mystery. And of course, the "Edge On Up" testers seem to have figured out what's going on, so I think I'd go with that until someone can demonstrate otherwise.
I do remember a movie, not the title, sorry, it was a black and white movie. Two high ranks of the army were comparing swords. One of the swords was able to go through metal. The other high ranking command throws in the air a very light silk scarf (it almost did float in the air) and he let it land on the edge of the sword. The pressure of the weight was enough to cut it. It was a movie, I do not know if that scene was based on historic documents. Love your channel.
it was based on a story from the Crusades, when Richard the Lion heart met Saladin, Richard cleaved an iron bar in half with his double handed claymore and Saladin threw the scarf into the air and neatly slice it in two with his scimitar
Thank you, your memory is better than mine. Let's hope Ricky give it a go. I think it is challenging, he would have to practice the throw and also play the weight of the scarf.
impressive I must say. Slightly crazy but also humble. When I sharpen an I'm not perfect yet even though I want to be a pro I find I look at paper or paper towels I've cut to see if my blades are straight and sharp. For example if I fold a paper towel and it either takes too much force or if fuzzes anywhere I know Im not sharp enough and my blade has flaws where there are rough edges in the cut. Styrofoam is also good as the blades has to be nearly micro prefect to leave a clean edged cut. So I don't consider paper to the ultimate test but you know your knife is really good and soft materials really are best in my opinion. You see and you probably know better than me but soft materials tear crush and shred under improper edges. To prove your nay sayers try cutting silk by just dropping it on your blade and letting slide across the edge under gravity it the silk come apart cleanly well that is a legendary rapier test. Viking also of legend would drop wool in water that flowed gently over the blade. The idea was that if the edge was sharper than any razor the water itself would provide enough drag down the edge to cut the wool in two. Any blade I think is that sharp is going in a video if I ever get mine there. You should too cause that's not only a thin sharp edge but one of perfect polish that will stay while. Hence the no friction cutting. That said you should be more impressed with yourself yes as the cut looked clean to me no jagged edges and a dull blade compared to what people were saying well they aren't completely wrong. A dull knife couldn't do that that effortlessly. I can do that but not necessarily consistent yet. Every blade is different and people expect perfection but we're all human so yeah.
Who are these CZcams Haters?!? If you hate on Burrfection you should seriously seek help.
The best test for a knife is whether it fulfills its purpose in the kitchen
The better test is to take magazine paper and bring the two opposing sides together without creasing the paper and try to get your knife to cut on the rounded back still a pointless test unless the only thing you care about is how sharp you can get your knife!!! Most people like you said having a knife that will cut well for the type of work that they do most often. Whatever that happens to be
Hey Ryky not bad. My ultimate sharpness test is to cut a circle on a piece of newsprint that I'm holding by hand.
its usually news paper to stand up cut and another test is with a news paper you can fillet a layer off without going to the other side literally shaving off the words on the paper
Intersting video. I can't get my knives to cut through standing paper. The worst part is I have no idea if it's my sharpening technique, my knives, my cheap whetstone, my cutting technique or some combination of all of them.
do what works., keep life simple
Now you must cut floating paper without touching it with the blade.
it didnt cut it straight down the second time because after you cut it the first time the paper didn't have enough stability
Correct
i remember seeing a video of a well respected sharpener perform a similar test. in his demo was he did a sharpening session and attempted a similar feat with magazine paper before and after he stropped.
his example was simply to show the effectiveness of a brief stropping session on leather. before the stropping the test more or less failed, after it was dropping through.
ill say in his video his drop was a slower one vs a quick chop.
i dont believe his demo was to be taken as a sharpness test per say, just to show the added benefit stropping can have cleaning up the edge.
I mean thats cool, but the ultamate test in my opinion is the test if you can cut a tomato without holding it, or if your a master with an insane knife you can do the same except with a bunch of grapes
push cutting toilet tissue is supposedly very difficult, also standing phone book paper. Ryky don’t sell yourself short mate! you’re very talented at free hand.
Thanks Riki,really funny video. I think that every knife sharpener as a person has his own way to test the sharpness of his blades. Many people use paper cutting test in a various forms. Me personally i test sharpness on a cigarette paper. Thin cigarette paper thanks to its little weight gives almost none resiliance against the blade. But, if you know a sharpening chanell like yours runned by the Michael Christie, he is using very interesting and completly different sharpening techniques (for example holding knife in the one hand, stone in the other hand) he is more focused on the folding every day cary knives and he is testing sharpeness of his blades on splitting human hair. I dont know how to describe it in english, its more like sliceing than splitting, see for yourself. This level of sharpness is really useless thanks to fragility of this kind of sharp blade and even thanks to natural oxidacion this ability to slice hair will disapper in a few days, but its really impresive to watch. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
To be honest, I noticed when I sharp my knife only on my 1000 grit stone works better on meats than after polishing it. Specially on meat with fat. So I think you can have different "type" of sharp knives for different purposes.
it is harder than if you hold the paper as there is almost no resistance when you cut it, it is obvious when the paper fold itself.
Imagine something that can cut without any pressure, it could cut the paper just by dropping the sheet on the blade (so basically almost no weight used to cut).
This would be the ultimate test but I guess no knife in the world could pass it. :-)
Well that was fun, but it taught me that if you know what you are doing you don't need 8 stones to get your tools very very sharp. Well done keep up the good work.
Question I have a budget of about 150 to buy a knife, what do you suggest? I would rather get a good knife as I have several inexpensive knives. I am leaning towards an 8" chef knife. Thank you for teaching me how to sharpen knives.
The only reason people test cut paper so much has nothing to do with the abilities of the knife beyond a competent skill set It's an excuse to cut something because cutting by itself is fun. We do it to make sure there are no glitches in the process sure. Once you get past a certain level of edge expectation though, it simply like you said, makes for good entertainment.
Tests like this are useful if you are learning to sharpen, and a validation of having aquired the skills necessary.
If you want to rate your knives sharpness. Use the hair hanging test, and show what levels you are getting with it, there is little difficulty in cutting a hair but the way the hair responds will at least give people a universal and well known sharpness guage to compare to.
Other fun tests include shaving a kiwi which can be difficult and above the level of paper cutting
Slicing a tomatoo hozirontally with or without suction holding it firm, the idea is to keep the top half on top of it's self.
Awesome video Ryky...I think I’m in agreement that at some point these tests just get out of hand. Although one interesting one I’ve seen was when you just “roll” a magazine sheet like a tube and try to cut it at an angle. Anyway I’ve done it so I’m not asking you to try cuz I’m still a grasshopper in comparison to you. Take care!
Ppl have all types of weird tests. To ME if its hair poppin sharp, meaning if it will shave hair usually my arm hair its good enough for me. Your on another level with the chef an cooking use knives tho I mainly sharpen my pocket and fixed blade knives that have a more robust edge geometry. Your still the man tho!
To be honest regular paper or magazine paper isn't the hardest test, newspaper or tissue paper is generally a much harder test. Not that it matters, doing that is proof enough as to how sharp it is.
Question, can you try cutting a half tomato standing on the counter top, not using anything to stabilize the tomato. try to cut the tomato with one hand. I heard that this is the true way to test a sharpness of a blade. This test is a good functional test , using it against a fruit. I know your knives will pass. but it will be good comparison in sharpness testing to this paper test.
Isn't edge retention more important? A knife so sharp that it will cut with just the weight of air will undoubtedly dull quickly on the cutting board.
Look Ryky, I'm going to tell you how it is. I don't mean to bust your bubble or anything and I'm not going to sugar coat anything. But your knives........... are sharp as hell!
Funny! Your other sharpening tests were just fine. I actually like that I can hear your blades during sharpening and your cut tests. I believe that using your senses while sharpening is just as important. Thanks RyKy. Question: How about expanding to include other blades like Mundial (Brazil) or just blades from other places. I asked for a Kamikoto review before. It's Japanese steel made in China. I have a set simply because of the price point with discount. Even other known brands from Japan like Korin, MAC, Nenox, Togiharu, Misono, Masamoto.
I dont know if its ultimate, but i can do that test with a 4 usd silicon carbide stone rated at between 800-1000 grit, and newspaper strop. I think tomato cut is more difficult, the one you dont hold the tomato
I don't think that kind of test makes any sense either. To start with, we should consider that any given tool is made for a purpose. Sharper is not necessarily better.
What is the point of an edge sooooo sharp, thin and delicate that it will develop micro chipping when slicing bread? Maybe if you are a sushi-God and have a sacred yanagi-ba forged under a full moon the night of a 29th February... But for a chef knife, which should be able to do many tasks it makes no sense to me.
I remember a discussion with my sharpening sensei talking about straight razors. I was getting good at it and testing experimental things with finer and finer grits for polishing that edge. Some blades would not take it and roll miserably. But other would go further and further. In some point, shaving with a (for me and my kind of skin and beard hair) too sharp edge was very uncomfortable.
My sensei said that it shouldn't be possible to get a too sharp edge, but years after he told me he had the sensation I described after testing some new compound. It seems like he has thinner beard hair than me (and a better sharpening technique). My -in comparison- much coarser edge was too much for me.
We should have a purpose on mind when we sharpen.
You forgot the, "quenched in the blood of a virgin komainu, using clay from Mt Fuji"
Its a kitchen knife..........sharper is always better edge geometry equal. Some steel doesn't benefit from higher refinement because of grain structure or softness, namely stuff with big chromium carbides wherein you'll get carbide fallout or sub 1% carbon blades where edge stability is an issue. That being said, if you can't pass the hanging hair test with a decent carbon steel blade at 30 degrees inclusive, you shouldn't be doling out sharpening advice.............like.............telling people not to flatten their stones lol.
This is true. When I sharpen steak knives (assuming they aren't serrated) for people, I put on a very clean but not too fine edge and then I actually run a 1200 grit ceramic flat across the edge, deliberately dulling it slightly. This kind of edge will cut cooked meat quite easily (all but a tough sausage skin) but won't roll all to hell on a ceramic plate because it has already been strategically dulled. Most people are quite happy with it because unlike a shaving sharp steak knife, it actually lasts.
Seriously I think the ultimate test is cutting real food, which is why you sharpen kitchen knives after all.
thats a good one. The tomato one is nice. However, tomatoes being always different dont give a reproducible measurement. So far the machine with the string he has seems the most reproducible.
I just discovered your channel. Im loving your videos
The most important and ultimate sharpness test is, if you can cut a long human hair free standing up in half lengthwise. Yes, you must do this, definitely.
I have seen this testonline too and tried it as well. With printer paper its pretty easy, try it with a thin magazine paper, it is a lot more challenging.
This is what he exactly did, maybe watch videos before jumping to comment section?
Yeah it was impressive
Try to push cut 1 sheet of single ply or whatever you have on hand toilet paper
Awesome!! you just got a new subscriber! :D
My knives always fail doing this test, only been able to do it with a hand. I always try to go as slow as possible into the paper, I think the quicker you do it the easier it quickly bites into the paper
it's for entertainment. if it cuts food, you are golden
@@Burrfection well yes but I admire sharpness, it’s like an art
Agree on waste of time. But thanks for the effort.
The best test to prove sharpness is cutting cigarette rolling paper horizontally and vertically
I'd say the ultimate test is folding newspaper in half, without creasing it, then cut a circle out of the rounded side.
They say that a drop cut means your knife is sharp......I have used your method for sharpening but only a cheap 1000/3000 grit stone then strop and I get great results. Too habe a knife sharper than that is useless as far as I am concerned. Keep up the great vids. Love thos channel.
I always thought that cutting paper was a stupid test of sharpness. There's way too many variables. The minute differences in the way you hold/support the paper can make or break the test. Never mind the variation in paper types. Cheap 18lb copy paper vs good 32lb presentation quality paper, might look the same on camera, huge difference in cutability.
why no ceramic knives?
Come on of course its impressive, at least for those of us who only dream to make a knife that sharp.
Bust I got is push cut paper whilst holding it and arm hair shaving :/
I like testing on living subjects