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The Most Comprehensive Sharpening Test Ever Done
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- *Support What we do at KMTools.com
At Katz-Moses Tools we believe that if it’s in our store it is in our shops. So when we wanted to bring in a sharpening system of course we had to do the most comprehensive sharpening test ever done. We used a very expensive piece of equipment that measures exact sharpness and we ran it through hundreds of tests to find out if you should strop, how often you should sharpen, which bevel angle is the best, what type of strop is best and if you’re wasting your money on expensive stones. I run you through how to sharpen correctly and common mistakes people make.
Let me know what you’d like to see next! Please like, comment and subscribe.
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Links from the Video
Check out kmtools.com
Get the Scary Sharp System Here shop.kmtools.com/scarysharp
Check Out Suman’s Video • you're sharpening too ...
Flat Tiles I Used bit.ly/flattile
The Best Honing Compound amzn.to/3KqLZsw
Make Your Own Hard Leather Strop amzn.to/3Ma87IT
Hard Leather Strop that I Loved bit.ly/hardleatherstrop
Precut Leather Strop amzn.to/3nBe3R8
Diamond X-Course/Course Stone amzn.to/3KocopZ
Diamond Fine/Xfine Stone amzn.to/3Gcux8J
Inexpensive Water Stones amzn.to/3ZtFkCg
High Quality Ceramic Water Stones amzn.to/3K08of3
Sharpness Scale bit.ly/sharptester
Microscope amzn.to/3K6oKmo
THE BEST Sandpaper 3M Xtract Cubitron kmtools.com/collections/3m-sa...
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Timestamps
Intro 0:00
What is Sharp? 1:17
Sharpening Explained - Get a Burr 2:50
25 vs 30 Degree Bevel 5:55
What We Tested 6:54
Should you Strop? 7:52
Edge Durability Test 11:08
Which Sharpening System is the Best? 14:37
What Would I Use if I Could Only Have 1 Setup? 22:29
Wrap up AND What Tools I Used 23:38
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www.Facebook.com/katzmoseswoodworking
patreon.com/katzmoseswoodworking
/ katzmoseswoodworkingshop
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Tools I love:
My Apron: kmtools.com/collections/workwear
My favorite Dozuki dovetail saw - shop.kmtools.com/dozuki
My favorite Ryoba saw - shop.kmtools.com/ryoba
Marking Gauge: shop.kmtools.com/dbmk
Marking Knife: shop.kmtools.com/dbmk
NEW Suizan Flush Trim Saw: shop.kmtools.com/flush
Narex Richter Chisels: lddy.no/ussg
Knew Concepts Coping Saw (best deal I’ve found): lddy.no/120mz
Dewalt Planer Package: amzn.to/2thEf6O
CMT Chrome are the Absolute Best Table Saw Blades (JKM10CMT for Additional 10% Off)- lddy.no/ggf9
Great Small Tape Measure: lddy.no/120n2
BLEM Combination Squares (high accuracy and value at a fraction of the price due to cosmetic scratch): lddy.no/120n3
The ABSOLUTE best Sandpaper on the market: lddy.no/10ucv
Dewaxed Shellac Flakes: amzn.to/2FeqqYh
5 Minute Epoxy 10% Discount code JKATZMO: bit.ly/30bA39o
2:1 High Performance Epoxy 10% Discount code JKATZMO: bit.ly/30bA39o
Dewalt Trim Router: amzn.to/3Ay6c7D
Dewalt Full Size Router Kit: amzn.to/3FH8Njp
Dewalt Planer: amzn.to/2YSkpiS
Bosch 1.25 HP Colt Router: amzn.to/3DzNjmF
Bosch Edge Guide: amzn.to/2uRRKs2
Bosch Bushings Set: amzn.to/2JUNRYb
Centering Cone: amzn.to/2OjgOAf
MY CNC MACHINES (I highly recommend both)
Bescutter Laser’s Website: bit.ly/bescutter
Avid CNCs of all shapes and sizes: bit.ly/3cdKdqA
MB01W7OQTAEHSQB
*Check out* kmtools.com And *Get the Scary Sharp System Here* shop.kmtools.com/scarysharp
*Check Out Suman’s Video* czcams.com/video/wJsPOKxxCR0/video.html
*Flat Tiles I Used* bit.ly/flattile
*The Best Honing Compound* amzn.to/3KqLZsw
*Make Your Own Hard Leather Strop* amzn.to/3Ma87IT
*Hard Leather Strop that I Loved* bit.ly/hardleatherstrop
*Precut Leather Strop* amzn.to/3nBe3R8
*Diamond X-Course/Course Stone* amzn.to/3KocopZ
*Diamond Fine/Xfine Stone* amzn.to/3Gcux8J
*Inexpensive Water Stones* amzn.to/3ZtFkCg
*High Quality Ceramic Water Stones* amzn.to/3K08of3
*Sharpness Scale* bit.ly/sharptester
*Microscope* amzn.to/3K6oKmo
*THE BEST Sandpaper 3M Xtract Cubitron* kmtools.com/collections/3m-sandpaper
Hey thanks for all the great information. I'm still a little stuck on the 30° 25° bevel. If I have a 25° plane or chisel why should I bevel it to 30 on the edge and not just change the whole angle?
Thanks, Jerome.
Just a +1 reply promoting the wish in my comment below to compare your results to the Unicorn method… shoulda put my comment here in the first place. Thanks!
What about this contraption? czcams.com/video/w3Y1AANySk/video.html He gets his chisels down to low 80's on the sharpness meter. And quick, fast, and in a hurry. I ordered two because I got to try it. I would love to see you put this through the durability test.
What's you lead time for Canadian orders (Alberta)? I can't find Scary Sharp films from any of my usual sources, and the cheapest result from Amazon Canada is three times your price. (I don't think the exchange rate is quite that bad!)
I remember a forum post once where some scientist who had access to an electron microscope showed how a blade looked at different points in the sharpening process at smaller-than-light-waves scale. Now *that* would make for a cool video, if you could track down a scientist with electron microscope access!
I’ve been preaching 3 diamond stones: coarse, medium, extra fine, then strop for years. Strop every so often and you rarely have to actually resharpen. I’m glad this video validates what I believed to be true after years of application. Good video bud
Thanks my friend! Yeah it’s not the scary big deal a lot of people make it out to be.
As I watched the video I agreed with 3rd coast craftsman. Like all a mature woodworkers you go through all the systems and can only say the 3 to 4 diamond plates with leather strop is the most efficient and best option, particularly for above average woodworker. It,s not expensive, clean up is minimal and quick, Particularly when your woodworking time is limited, and you get great results. I don’t see myself ever changing. And I can get shavings down to .0005 to .001 and shave hairs. I believe that’s all one needs to get through your projects using most common hardwoods. This video is excellent and I watched many of your other great videos over the years. Thank you for taking the time (plus the cost) to produce this great video. Keep up the great work!
I lied on my resume to get the gig. I’m not Dr Wood.
Damn it!
Too bad I can't comment with a picture of a cat in line with soldiers.
I subbed on your channel because of this video. Good stuff.
@@Strawman333 same here 👍🏻
I know Katz Moses was wanting a serious wood doctor. Hard wood doc. No soft wood hobbyist.
As merely a hobbyist, sharpening is the last thing I want to spend a lot of $$ and time on. I bought the scary sharp after one of your previous videos and this just reinforced what a great decision that was. Thanks so much for the science of it!
Awesome book that gives you step-by-step photos czcams.com/users/postUgkxTNB_zFBSnTo_O1PqfVUwgi7ityw0JlKt and directions to make every day project. I can see myself making a few of these projects and giving them as housewarming and holiday gifts!
I love the way you do these in depth tests on things like this.
That said, I do think that a good rule of thumb is that, if there is a lot of debate about how best to do a thing, then it probably doesn’t actually matter and it is, as you say, “whatever works for you.”
There’s no debate about which end of the chisel is sharp because that question has a specific answer: there’s lots of debate about how to get the chisel sharp, because lots of different methods get good results.
This rule of thumb also applies internally to your own brain! I've struggled with indecisiveness for most of my life, until one day it suddenly clicked that I was getting stuck on certain decisions precisely *because* they didn't matter 😅
Since that epiphany I've saved probably entire days of wasted time by learning to recognise when it's happening, flipping a coin (or telling Google/Siri/Alexa to flip one for me), and immediately going with whatever the coin tells me... Or suddenly realising that I don't want to do what the coin tells me, in which case hey, I still made a decision 😎
That's exactly how I feel about parenting advice, lol...
@@clawsoon or which toothpaste to buy...
@@clawsoon OP's observation works for situations where many people have real experience with different methods, and they all give good results.
i doubt many people can claim to have real experience with raising children (doing it, prefferably a lot, AND correctly evaluating the results). it's statistically a one or two time thing for most people, and, talking results, only about half of all adults end up being able to form healthy emotional attachments.
i'd definitely not throw parenting in the "doesn't matter, turns out fine anyway" bucket. i think it's more psychology vs dogma and indolence.
Great info, man! Well done! But where is the spread sheet? LOL Thanks for all your work!
It’s only April but I’m pretty sure this is the video of the year for me. I love how a rigorous approach can cut through opinion and point to an effective method. My biggest takeaways: 1. I’m potentially sharpening too often; and 2. My current system of 1000 grit diamond stone + 4000 grit Shapton glass stone + leather strop with green compound is effective enough for all situations. I have a set of scary sharp paper, too, but I do like the longevity of the diamond and glass stones. In any case, thank you for posting this!
One of the many, many aspects I appreciate about Jonathan are his collaborations with talented, smart people, and then he doesn't get in the way of their expertise, but rather highlights it. Excellent video, great insights. Thanks as always.
Thank you. Sharpening is a wild jungle, so it’s nice to have someone chop a clear path through it to the goal. I’ve been trying to find that path for years for my kitchen knives and other tools. This video is a huge help in that direction.
Two of my favorite people talking about something I love, what could be better than that? But seriously, great video you guys! Loved the approach and final result 🤗
I've watched this video multiple times now and continue to be amazed with the amount of information that you're passing on to us. I just inherited a couple planes and purchased a couple more. I won't get to sharpen/clean them up for a few months but when I finally do, I'll be a semi-pro because of this video.
Fantastic test and presentation. I have water stones, diamond stones and scary sharp sandpaper. Never got the best results. Now I know why. Thanks so much. You are the best!!!
This was incredibly helpful. I currently use the diamond stone method and a hard leather strop. It gets the results I need but for the low cost, I may just try the Scary Sharp system. Thanks again!
Thanks! I truly appreciate your honesty. Now I’m going to buy something from your store to support you.
Bought a piece of float glass from a local glass shop, they asked if I wanted the edge cleaned up or not. Didn't cost any extra, but if you're going that route, I'd definitely recommend doing it! Makes the edge smooth and safe to handle, you can't cut yourself on it. 12"x12" was about $20, thickness was 1/2" I think. Might go higher, like 5/8" or 3/4", if I were to buy again.
Since you have a Tormek it would have been interesting to see how the stropping wheel compared to the other alternatives 🙂
With my carving knives I usually just touch up the edge on that 2-3 times a day and find it being good enough. Sometimes I use a small fine diamond “stone” when the blade starts to feel dull.
I gotta say, this video is much needed! I see these videos where someone sharpens like it's some zen, define my self worth, religious experience. You have validated what I have for decades found true. I have diamond stones, one ceramic and leather strop. That's it! get it done so you can get back to work. But, when an edge it truly sharp, you HEAR it in the cut. It has a whistle sound. Listen for it...
Great video and thanks for all the comparison and conclusions. Big help for someone who is new to all this sharpening. And, really happy I don't have to do it as often as I thought. 🙂
Great video and very helpful. On my own I have noted that stropping seems to be the key; but I always feel like I need to pull out the stones as well. You have saved me a lot of time and effort!
Right on my friend
As always an amazing video from you Jonathan. Love how you are not held back by myths and old sayings but test from the ground up scientifically.
The Paul Sellers video I watch five years ago nailed it. Did anyone need to sharpen to 30,000 grit to make amazing furniture? Nope.
So sharpen until it’s sharp enough and just get back to work.
This video came up in my feed for some reason so I decided to watch. All I can say is after watching I am compelled to sharpen something. Great presentation and interaction.
I'm a strong believer of use what you have. I have a 40 year old oil stone, works fine. I'd rather have a sharp enough tool that will work than worry about perfection that performs the same. Sharpen quickly and get back to work
My issue with oil stones is keeping them flat takes more time than I’m willing to spend. I can use abrasives on glass and get a sharper edge with less overall time spent. Find a system you’re comfortable with and enhance it as needed.
@@raymondbunkofske4702Oil stones don't take long to flatten, some SiC grain on a bit of glass, or super coarse diamond stone will make them flat pretty quick, and they don't go out of flat very often.
Fantastic testing, guys! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your families! 🖖😊
Thank you! Will do!
Great video thanks for clearing this up I’m new to woodworking and have been looking for a sharpening system
Great video! I appreciate the honest analysis and cost benefit analysis. Thanks!
My pleasure!
Great video, very informative. Thank you both so much.
Well it’s good to have it settled with this, the last word in sharpening videos. I have a 400/1600 diamond stone with some leather and stropping paste. It makes burrs and works great.
Great work guys. Thanks!
thanks so much for the hard work gentlemen.
Thanks for doing this testing!
Thank you for these objective tests! I already knew that the obsessive fine stones up to tens of thousands which are expensive too, makes only a difference on the first 5 strokes. I use one diamond stone: 300 / 1000 then leather lapping, for me it does the job, no need for anything else.
Hey guys,
thanks for putting this video out. So much work just to make the point to not worry to much. But yeah that's what at least I needed to hear, to somehow find trust in what I do already.
Thank you for this Katz!!!
Interesting and it concords with experience. I have concluded after many years of trying different systems that the best option is to buy a Tormek first and never use anything else. It would be good to see a test of the sharpness you can achieve there.
For beginners or mostly power tool woodworkers I always recommend the “Scary Sharp” system. Great Video
Great video! I sharpened my blades after each job but also depends on the wood as well.
Very interesting video guys, here in the uk I’ve progressed from my Tormek system to the scary sharp system, much quicker and cleaner, I don’t use anything else now. I do still use the tormek but mainly for my wood turning tools. I agree with your conclusion that you must strop, many thanks for the test. 👏👏
This video definitely re-enforces my personal experience and learning with sharpening.
Great video - thanks for putting it together
Great job, guys, thanks!
Excellent video. These comparisons are invaluable. I've found that with diamond stones it makes a big difference if you get one with very fine grit. DMT's "Extra Extra Fine Diamond Stone" has particles that are only 3 microns, which is as fine as anything in the video. I have one, and it works very well. Plus it provides all the other advantages you mentioned. You do have to rinse it periodically to eliminate swarf. I would love to see you put it through your sharpness test and to see the results. FYI DMT's "Extra Fine Diamond Stone" has particle size of 9 microns. It also works well.
Hi Johnathan, GREAT video, seriously. Excellently well done. However, I have a small technical correction on something you said at the 19:30-ish mark where you were talking about both float and tempered glass. So if you're glass chipped, it was not tempered.
Float glass can be tempered, but it is not by default tempered. Float glass is made by pouring glass over molten potassium. The glass is lighter than the tin (corrected from earlier wrongly listed metal, thank you @GB Expat Cornishman) and floats on top while hardening as it gets cooler. The potassium "lake" is very flat and provides very flat glass.
Tempering can be done in several ways, but most commonly (such as in car windows), cold air is aggressively blown on the surface when the glass is very hot. This causes the outside surface (on both sides) to contract and compress the glass in the middle. For example, if the glass is compressed (say) 10,000 l/si on the outside, it takes >10,000 l/si to cause enough deflection to break the glass. Plus, the tempered glass breaks into small rectangular solids that are much safer than large shards of glass. Next time you pass a car accident, pull over and examine the side or read windows; you can see this. Windshields (the front window) are laminated glass and not tempered. When it breaks, the plastic lamination holds all the pieces so they do not fly around into the face of the driver or passenger.
I was a scientific glassblower for over 40 years, demonstrating these dynamics to many groups and organizations and have written extensively on glass, glass physics, and glass chemistry.
Thanks professor glass. Feels like an origin story for a super villain 😂😂😂
@@katzmosestools Actually, the origin story is more complex then a super villain: I was getting my BS in Oceanography but was directing a Hungarian dance troupe and needed some customization of some glassware. I took a 1-unit class in scientific glassblowing. The chem professor who taught the class suggested I think about doing that for a job and it became a wonderful career. Any other glass questions, just ask. I may have answers.
@@nonexman Float glass cannot be flat...it must follow the curvature of the Earth...I'd hate for that to upset the perfection of my chisels!
@@chrisjordan4210 Haha. Of course. And it's all Newton's fault for inventing Calculus to work out rounded areas by cutting them into smaller and smaller bits. So don't blame me; blame Newton!!
@@nonexman Yep, I was only thinking of the imperfections introduced by Newton's model of gravity, of course, to sharpen an edge tool properly we need to factor in General Relativity..."frame dragging" etc...or maybe like using those really fine stones we're losing the plot as JKM said (and to think I used to enjoy woodworking)😊😊.
Now, where's that old oil stone?
thanks for putting the work in
like the *simpli-tizing* and the objective def for sharpness
Didn't test oil stones but your conclusion aligns with my experience and everything I've learned from professionals that I trust... get the burr, strop, and go to work!
Been using a diamond plate and a leather strop for years with green compound and works great.
Same! I stay away from the extra coarse, and I use the Paul sellers method
FWIW, and based on long experience, I agree with you completely.
I sharpen everything by hand and I have used all of these methods. They all work and they all work well.
Ultimately, I have come to use diamond stones as a preferred method because I like their cutting ability, their durability and their flatness. I have 300/600/1200/8000 grit diamond plates which work well both for creating new edges and touching up dulled edges.
But the key, the REAL key, in my estimation is the strop. Hand stropping and power stropping work very well and very quickly to put a keen polished edge on chisels, plane blades, knife blades, and carving tools. As the years have gone by, I find myself stropping a lot more and sharpening a lot less -- especially with chisels, knives, and carving tools. If I am carving, I keep a strop on the bench next to my work for both knives and gouges.
Lessons learned...
Great video. Thanks! 👍👍
If the strop is making a huge difference on your edges, you aren't deburring properly.
Spend a little more time on the stones, deburr with light (less than weight of the blade) strokes, and then test the sharpness once properly deburred.
You shouldn't see much improvement post stropping if done properly.
As for maintaining tools, strops are great.
@@autumn5592 After using the 8000-grit diamond plate, burring is not a big problem -- especially after I run the back of the blade over the 8000-grit plate. I also drag the blade laterally across my thumbnail to check for any burring before I use the strop.
The stop appears to polish the blade to a sharper edge. It may be a slight difference, yet it is very noticeable. I can easily see the difference by shaving hair from my forearm, both before and after stropping. The hair cuts much more easily and smoothly after stropping. The same goes for cutting end grain in pine or cherry before and after stropping.
@@jerrystark3587 Burr formation is a problem even at 30,000 grit.
You can have issues with burr formation on sub-micron diamond pastes too.
The burr is the problem why you aren't getting sharp edges. Even micro-burrs harm sharpness.
You won't see them or feel them either.
But if they make the apex thicker (they do, just by being there), or fold over, then you won't have a sharp edge.
Material removed from a bare leather strop is nothing, the grit of it is like 160,000 or something; you would have to take thousands of passes to see any difference.
For pasted/compound strops, the difference on actual sharpness is negligible, if you're using it to deburr.
If you want to see if the issue is burr formation, after you've sharpened, test it, then take 6-10 passes each side (alternating) lightly on jeans.
If your knife gets sharper, you had a burr.
Grit does not magically stop burrs forming, polishing does not have much of an impact on sharpness.
@@autumn5592 I only report on my own experience. I am not reviewing principles of metallurgy. 😎
Sharp tools are so important to having a good day in the shop. Its great to know that good enough will still work exceedingly well.
How long will the Scary Sharp films last? Is there a good/easy indication of when they are no longer performing as expected and need to be replaced? Great video, very informative!
Go and watch the videos by Matthew Platt from Workshop Heaven he knows more about Scary Sharp than anybody alive. I've been using Scary Sharp for over a decade and am a dedicated hand tool craftsman. I probably change the five grits I use 5 times a year and I use hand tools almost everyday in my work. But I get 3 strips out of every A4 sheet. One time purchase of a piece of float glass for about £40 and a good honing guide and some sheets of lapping film and you are good to go.
As a Scary Sharp user, there is no right answer to this. It's going to depend on how often you sharpen, how hard you press down, whether you are back flattening new chisels/plane blades, and how many different tools you are sharpening on them. I change my paper about 2-4 times per year, but I resharpen on the SS probably once every 2 days, and then just strop while I am actually doing the work. I just like to reset the edge before a session. However, I usually start at the 1000 or 1200, the light blue or yellow, so the dark green and blue last longer, as I use them less. I also usually only need to do 5-10 strokes on the higher grits, and sometimes I even skip a grit if I am in a hurry. It also depends on whether you are just doing a micro bevel each time, or doing a larger surface area on the tool.
The only ways to really tell are 1.) Is your steel leaving dark marks still? That is metal coming off, so if no metal is coming off, you probably are going to need to change the paper. 2.) Is it taking a lot more strokes to get the edge sharp? If you suddenly find yourself doing 50 strokes, it's probably time to change that paper. The way I generally tell is by going on the light blue/yellow until I get a bur, then using a sharpie and marking the very tip of the edge before each next grit, and going for about 3 strokes after the sharpie is removed. If it is not removing the sharpie, either your angle is off, or it is not removing material.
It's not an exact science, so there really is no clear answer for everyone. There is certainly a trade off with the SS, because if you do go through a lot of paper, it's going to add up over time. I think there is a case to buy nicer stones to do the earlier grits, up to maybe 1200 or 2000, or whatever, then doing the rest on the scary sharp. Your stones won't need replacing if they are nice, so you save money there, and your paper of higher grits will last longer, as there is less to remove.
I love/your channel for this! We soooo much need more scientific approaches to this (and many other) crafts!
More to come my friend. Thank you!
@@katzmosestools nice!
Im working with some panels of 9mm felt and woodlamels (acoustical panels) and to cut/fit the felt i use blades for stanley knives. They dull rather quickly on this felt or if i hit a staple, but because of this video i thought of stropping them - and oh boy does it resharpen them!
5-10 pulls each side and they as sharp or sharper than new! Nice :D
Love these testing videos!
super informative, great video
I love this. Great job fellas 👏🤙
Great Presentation ... Thank You
You are welcome!
Been saying the same thing for years km. I have a whole mess of stones and diamond sharpeners and whatnot, I still go scary sharp on float glass currently which is great, although this got me thinking tiles are a much better option.
The main advantage of the Shapton glass stones over traditional water stones is that they don't require soaking. You can just splash some water on them and use them. But yeah, I don't buy into any super high grit stones.
My only issue with the "scary sharp" system is that it's great for chisels and plane blades, but if you're also sharpening knives, it can be difficult to get it set up in a good form for that use. There are plenty of good stone setups for knives. That said, aside from my really nice, expensive Japanese knives, I sharpen most of my knives using a sanding belt system (I use a Work Sharp), which is pretty much just "scary sharp" on steroids.
I'll point out good water stones don't need to be soaked! Ex. Naniwa super stones, shapton pro. They are marketed as "splash n' go". The shapton glass stones are just higher quality, wear slower, and are glass backed! Hope that helps
@@Haydt456 Certainly a lot of the modern ones don't, by popular demand, but there are still soaking stones that are good and have been used for decades. I'm impatient, though. Plus, it's a hassle to soak stones just to touch up one knife, and keeping them submerged all the time seems to make some stones less effective, IMO -- and a pain to store that way.
And also not mentioned, there's not enough love for traditional "Arkansas stones" aka whetstones or oil stones. I don't use them much, but my father used to get some great edges on a simple 2-sided whetstone with a little machine oil, holding both the stone and the knife in his hands. Great skill to have in the field, and a decent oil-soaked whetstone is an entire field kit on its own and can last decades.
Great information! I’ve been experimenting with stones, diamond and scary sharp… and strop: thin adhered to board. As you mentioned, the tear of scary sharp film is a certain, particularly if dressing a new chisel that isn’t flat. Plus the pull back motion is slow if needing to flatten a back from new mid-level chisels. I’ve mixed the system with Ultra Sharp Diamond set… 300 up to 3000 and the Scary Sharp film on up through their 60000 grit. Probably not necessary, but the diamonds 2200 & 3000 seem to get it close in the least time consuming with 2 way strokes and finishing with Scary Sharp and quick strop.
You’ve pointed out my procedure has duplication processes that may be more detrimental than simply duplication of effort & time.
I’ll modify based on your findings… great Video! Enjoy all your videos and have purchased several items from your store.
Granite tiles and countertop remnants from stores like habitat rebuild are excellent value for the money
Thanks JKM, you’ve given me the confidence to know that I’m not doing it completely wrong. Lol.
Thanks for all you do.
Glad to hear it
Thank you for the scientific insight to the unsure. One more component regardless of the monetary value, whether there on not, the psychological reward of effort applied to achieve more with less effort but not burdened further than cost or opinion . I feel good about the break in a constant applied effort to give homage to be applied to learn a skill that brings an equal amount or more to a standard chosen freely and applied in other than obligation... Well done to attempting to reduce concerns around sharpness...
Ty for video great info
Yes, but did you test Tibetan yak strops from only the left hind leg of an ovulating female yak in August? I bet it will be sharper. I only buy my strops from Lars Äkerman who conditions the yak strops in his BDSM workshops in Sweden. Never had a sharper chisel!
😂😂😂😂
If you strop the beveled side first (on soft leather), starting with a 25-degree main grind, then the "round over" may simply add that "five degree" "microbevel" to the blade geometry. Very often you hear folks described an edge as the intersection of two planes. In reality, one plane maybe defined by a really flat back, while the other is the _tangent_ of the arc of the "rounded over" bevel. As long as that intersection is very acute, and very clean, you have a sharp edge. Paul Sellers makes this point, but the geometry versus material surfaces is pretty clear once you think about it. And, most importantly, as you note, you don't need anything but occasional stropping for quite a long time before you _need_ to tackle using stones again. I've eased off on how fine the stones I use are, and now rarely push beyond 1200 on a diamond stone. After stropping, the hair flies off the arm. For knives, I will work up to an 8,000 grit waterstone. Cooking needs much sharper edges than wood working.
Great video! Only question I have is edge durability for chisels - when mortising into harder woods, it seems that regular sharpening is imperative but I may be wrong
Really interesting video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My father used to sharpen buck knives for hunters (he owned a small engine repair shop) and he would start with any major reshaping on a grinder, then move to a pair of stones, then to a piece of cardboard with compound. His final step was jeweller’s rouge on a flannel wheel to polish it up, but he told me often about a hard leather wheel he used to have for a bench grinder. Even without the hard leather wheel, he would often let the weight of the blade slide down his forearm and shave the hair off when gave it to the customer. The right person could sharpen a spork into a scalpel if they are dedicated, but it might only make one cut.
As my Mentor said about sharpening, keep it simple.. I use good quality Diamond plates. 300 for rejuvenating bevel, 600 to establish the edge, 1200 to form the burr then strop on hard leather with Chromium Oxide compound.. No need to pfaff about.
Thanks!
For new woodworkers who value their time, I would still suggest leaning in the direction of a diamond stone for the coarsest grit, because that will save you a *lot* of time when you’re establishing initial flatness on things like the back of a cheap chisel from Home Depot.
I love when you do the deep dive videos
Thanks Jonathan, this spiel was really good.
Watched this some months ago and came back to it today. The Shapton stones have an idiosyncratic 'grit system' which needs to be considered. Their "16000 grit" is 0.92 microns. I have a 12000 grit Japanese water stone that is 0.50 microns. Not saying that they are worth more for the $$ spent. And yes, they are messy...all of them..including the 'scary sharp' method.
it'd be interesting to see this done for woodturning tools/methods too
Cool video and I can appreciate the ton of effort that went into it. At the beginning, what is sharp is defined as being able to effortlessly cut printer paper (~140 g or less) and it’s stated that this is usually good enough for woodworking. This seems a bit arbitrary and it’s not clear why ‘effortlessly cutting printer paper’ is the standard for ‘woodworking sharp’. It would be ideal to examine the surface of planed wood and use it as a measure of what’s required for sharpness - it might be difficult to quantitate the ‘smoothness’ of planed wood - and this is very likely wood species dependent. For the 30 degree vs 25 degree bevel angle, it would have been cool to see a plot of number of strokes planed on wood vs grams of quantitated sharpness. You could then directly compare the plots of 25 vs 30 degree bevel for a better comparison of sharpness longevity as it relates to bevel angle - this might require more than three points as done here (10, 50, 100 strokes).
We’re on the same page. 140 is arbitrary. And what is “good enough”? Ever plane Honduran mahogany with “good enough”? Bloodwood? Or domestically, hickory. The idea of going literal hundreds of passes without needing to sharpen or only stropping is ludicrous. I’m pretty sure “whatever sharpening method works for you” is a euphemism for “whatever your standards are”.
Very impressive presentation 👍
Thanks for the good work! Any thoughts on sharpening turning tools?
Great video, Jonathan!
Thanks!
Scary sharp is the best system I have used, its quick, clean and easy to use.
I patiently waited the whole time for this video to drop. Let's gooooo
leeeeeeeets goooooooo!!!!
Good video. Great info. Have a good one.
i got a piece of old leather welders apron, probably too soft, mounted on a bit of sapele offcut, works great as a strop ;)
Apparently kangaroo leather is preferred but it’s impossible to find for less than a pinky toe
Long before all these modern sharpening contraptions, carpenters, timber framers, swordsmen, woodsmen, frontiersmen and others had to maintain their edged tools for maximum effectiveness. Thus I figure, it can't be too complicated, and that frequent sharpening is more important than "perfect" sharpening. I'll need to watch this tomorrow but look forward to seeing it.
Update after watching - this fits my rather ameteur conclusion - use your favorite stone type up through the grits, then strop, and forget about it. Don't get too obsessive, but make sure its reasonably sharp and get some work done. Sounds like after a lot of cool science you found the same thing. I think I have Paul Sellers to credit for this logic.
You know we're going to hit your store and buy you out 💖 Maybe when your sharpening jig is back in stock, it could be a bundle 😉 Fingers crossed!
Thank you for this and looking at ways to save us some money.
You are so welcome!
Feel like you did the shaptons a disservice. You only have the stones that are higher than you should really care about. Personally, I like diamond up to like 1200, then shapton at 4k and 12k (i have a 8k for back lapping too, but don't normally use it) then stropping. Also curious how jende type strops and compounds work out.
I’m sure those stones are great. Our point was the the 30k shapton stone isn’t worth it. I love their lower grit stones and they are very high quality.
thank you
Awesome!
This is what I needed. Always have been nervous to try an sharpen.
Don’t put too much pressure on yourself
Problem is thinking about it.
Just go and do it, doesn't matter it it's not perfect, it's better than it was before.
Love the vid, really do....question: how would Autosol (toothpaste style black and gold tube) polishing paste hold up against green polishing compound? Would really love to know your opinion. What about standard Stanley irons? Any tests on those....or would the consensus be (more or less) the same?
Great work, guys!
When I found what worked for me in terms of ease, sharpness, and time, I stuck with it. It's sharpening three grits (400, 800, 1200) on diamond stones and stropping a few times on hard leather with green stropping compound. That's what I consider sharpening, otherwise it's 1200 and strop, or just stropping to touch up, which I consider honing.
Oh, almost forgot! Not every tool is the same. Inspired from some discussions in the Rex Krueger community I tried honing my Mora knife on a slate stone instead of leather, which gave me a much better result that regular stropping.
Gotta say, honing is sharpening, the word hone literally means sharpen.
But yes, I totally agree, taking up to 3k, 5k, 10k, etc. is all pretty pointless.
Most really use is 220-600 grit, with a black compound on strop (IF I STROP). My blades will easily shave hair.
Grit doesn't make sharpness.
Touching up on hard abrasives is good, can't accidentally 'overstrop' on a stone, and prevents the issues that come with it (to much convexivity, rounding of the apex.)
@@autumn5592 Yes, I know, it's a bit of a personal use of the words, I guess. Which isn't the best of ideas 😅 But I'm trying to differentiate between full on sharpening and touching up, which I just did now 😂
@@thomashverring9484 Fair enough. I've been known to use it the same way too.
My grandfather was a barber and basically just used a strop on his cut throat razors between customers which seemed to work fine.
I would just like to point out how ridiculously pleased I am that the tester is ‘’SHARP’ brand. Excellent video.
Right?!? That’s my favorite too
Can you guys recommend the best sharpening guide you've found thus far? There are tons of them out there but I have no clue which is worth buying. Thanks
I can't remember if it was Jason or hey l Keith who said you should change your motto and I agree..
Instead of if it's not in our shop it's not in our store.... You could say if it's not in our shop, it's not in our shoppe 😂... thanks for the video, and for sponsoring the podcast!
You should get in touch with Wood by Wright as he has also done similar tests especially on chisels. Nice job. Always good information from you.
Yesterday my plane suddenly stopped to cut oak. 30 passes on the strop - good to go again.
I’d love a video about how the species of wood affects the rate of edge degradation.
I feel that high silica woods like spotted gum degrade the edge much faster than other woods like maple
We used maple because everything else was so much slower. It’s wild how long blades hold their edge. I was blown away by that
thanks
I found some 10 x 14 tiles at Home Depot. Let’s you put 2 grits per tile, however what I like better about these is that you have a couple of inches left at the bottom of your sheet, so that when you sharpen with a jig you get to use the whole sheet in stead of just 8 inches .