Understanding The BMW Motorcycle CANBUS System
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2020
- Sooner or later BMW motorcycle owners of RT or GS or other model bikes, will come across the "canbus" term. Maybe you want to swap your lights to LED bulbs, or add an electrical accessory or charge your battery through the DIN port. Well, the CANbus system and the ZFE computer will be involved! Instead of the old-school fuses and basic wiring, newer motorcycles will use the CANbus network protocol and an associated computer controller to monitor, diagnose and control all phases of the electrical system. This system has been used in the automotive sector since the mid 1980s. It works pretty well, but there are differences to understand and adding accessories isn't as simple as it once was. In this video I'll go over the basic of what CANbus is and how it works.
► To Purchase
amzn.to/2Xbkx9F (generic fuse block)
amzn.to/3evfzKQ (HEX EzCAN for liquid cooled RT/GS)
amzn.to/2XdXUSa (HEX EzCAN for oil cooled R1200)
amzn.to/3gqJtBA (GS911 diagnostic tool)
amzn.to/36G79xs (Canbus compatible charger)
amzn.to/36G7gZU (SAE pigtail)
The manual in the video:
amzn.to/3p15kDf (04-09)
amzn.to/3qZSZRD (10-12)
amzn.to/37tiT8x (13-16)
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Thanks a lot! All you spoke about made sense after four hours of trouble shooting my new LED Tail light error code
Excellent presentation. I did not understand this system at all prior to this viewing. Thank you.
Thank you, this is probably one of the greatest and most concise presentations on BMW motorcycle canbus system.
This is a very clear explanation. Thanks!
I have an '02 K1200RS and it is even affected by certain current draw, though it's not a true CAN-Bus system. I installed a cool little LED brake light that flashes like six time then remains on until release. Well after installation I had cruise control issues where my cruise control would just shut off as if a micro switch was activated......very troublesome. So on a ride it hit me that maybe it was due to the LED bulb recently installed and sure enough it was. I re-installed the incandescent bulb and back in business. Great info....thanks!
Great description....the canbus term was a mystery. As soon as you described it, I realized I've been doing this with my powerline ethernet in my house for years and it made perfect sense. Thanks!
Makes me think that it would be able to put a ''ZFE'' at home aswell to troubleshoot all electronics. That every piece of electronics should come with some data to program in your home ''ZFE'' to add it to your system.
Just absolutely brilliant video. Thanks very much.
Fantastic article John, so informative.
Thanks, a really useful and well presented explanation. My other bike, which I use throughout the winter months, a Jawa 350 2 stroke, is at the other end of the scale, it has just one fuse.
There are definitely days when I wish for the simplicity of an earlier time!
Another great video John!
Thanks for a concise explanation of canbus. The word has always been a mystery to me. I experienced a “fault” when I replaced the brake bulb with a LED. I had to put the OEM bulb back in.
When you explain a topic, you “put the cookies 🍪 on the bottom shelf” where we can reach them.
Ha! I love the cookies analogy! As far as that LED light problem, manufacturers have caught on and more and more automotive style lights are available now "canbus ready" with a built in resistor to mimic an incandescent light. It's a shame it isn't easier to reprogram the canbus computer to allow the lower draw of standard LED lights because by putting in a resistor it just wastes electrical power in the form of heat.
Cristal clear! Thank you...
Ed.
Thank you for this clear and concise explanation. Just last week on my 2008 / 50k mile RT, whilst riding I lost the RPM and Speedo gauges, also the ‘Brake failure red light’ and the ‘Front headlight’ bulb blown warning. Pulled over and inspected the bike (Wheels and brakes), then restarted. Other than both ‘low beam’ bulbs blown, bike was ‘normal’ with RPM / Speedo working. On replacing both lo beam bulbs, I found the plastic connector block to one bulb had a small bit missing, and the ‘blade connector’ a little loose. So I ‘crimped’ this a little tighter and replaced the bulb. No problems since. So I guess this had triggered the Can-Bus system. I now carry two spare bulbs...
It can be disconcerting to have your dash light up with warnings, but sometimes it's just a simple thing. Poor grounds, especially as vehicles get older, are often a problem with these systems. If you understand how they work, though, you can do a quick check like you did and then ride on until you have time for a diagnosis later.
Well explained, never know that canbus can sniff & differentiate current draw 👍👌
Excellent Video. Thank you
Excellent explanation 😊
You for got to talk about the Flux Capacitor, ;) thanks for the wonderful video.
Very helpful. Thanks
wow i always wondered now i know! great video thank you!💯⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Well done!
Man I wish I knew about this sooner, I have a 2019 Indian ftr1200 and I tried to replace my rear turn signals that were shorter so I could use a throw over saddle bag and I went threw hell well I’m back to OEM turn signals , oh yeah I contacted the manufacturer of the turn signals I was trying to use and they said it won’t work on my bike because of the can bus system and no refunds on electronic parts , would have been nice to know earlier, well thanks for the video
It's actually getting a little easier now to find LED lights that will work because more manufacturers are putting a resistor in the LED circuit to mimic an incandescent bulb. When they first came out nobody was doing that. Still, you have to be aware of the issue and look for the label because there are no standards. If you still have those third part turn signal stalks it's possible the LED bulbs are removable and you could replace them with the type that have the built-in resistor and are canbus compatible. You have to check the available space in the stalks to see if a resistor-style LED will fit, though. Pain in the rear end, for sure.
Great video. I was wondering if someone knows how much Amp (Watt) I can drow from the battery (for extra spotlights 90W) without draining it while riding? RD
Put it this way, you are probably going to get LED lights if you buy a set of aftermarket lights today. They draw so little compared to incandescent lights that you shouldn't have to worry about it. In this case you'll want regular LED lights, not those with a built-in resistor to mimic incandescent lights. That would draw more current with no benefit.
Does anyone know where the accesory socket is on the F900XR (not the din socket)? I want to add some led lights, gps and usb sockets up near the dash and apparently there is a socket there....???
Great video indeed. Quick question anyone. After giving my 2012 R1200GSA a valve job on the RIGHT side, I removed most connectors and when the job was done had one connector left that has no place to plug into. Would this have been for the TPS on the right side had one ever been installed on that side? It's got a pretty short cable and I've "stretched it" all around looking for any possible place for it to plug into and that's the only thing I can surmise. Does anyone know? Thank you so much.
I don't really know, but I wonder if it's the ambient air temp sensor? I assume the GS has one similar to the RT, and on the RT the sensor is mounted to the body panel.
Interesting video, thank you. Does this mean that I can’t run a Garmin Zumo on my 2016 R1200rt without installing an Hex ez can?
I have good news for you! You can use the factory harness for your Garmin Zumo without issue. I have a Garmin Nuvi set up the same way. I have two videos you should watch:
czcams.com/video/yvOj9dS97TQ/video.html
czcams.com/video/I5Hk-LNvxqw/video.html
Good info, thanks. Might explain why my RT keeps going flat, ordered a pigtail. Parasitic draw on mine was 0.00057, about a 1/10th of what is deemed acceptable, but now had 2 batteries in 12 months, where previously lasted for years.
See this video below, too. I really think a lot of riders are starting out with a new battery which is already lost some lifespan by sitting on the retailer's shelf without a charger. czcams.com/video/Ah2jcRzupgM/video.html
@@tinderboxarts Thanks again. Done all you said, and both batteries obtained in the last 12 months were dry in the shop, filled with acid in front of me then charged fully before fitting to the bike. Had the bike since January 2012, so first battery lasted 5-6 years, 2nd battery 3-4, 3rd one 9 months. Always did what you said regarding charging etc with Optimate 4 configured for can-bus. Always disconnected the garmin sat nav in the garage, so concluding that the bike is getting Old! But like me. But the optimate pigtail will be fitted tomorrow and I’ll see what happens from there on. Excellent videos by the way, all good sensible information, and smart chargers definitely the way to go.
Hm, interesting. Well, you could well have a parasitic draw causing the problem, then. You might want to get a meter out and check, even though you've chosen to go the pigtail route. See this: czcams.com/video/AhqZwLnD9Jk/video.html
After fitting the pigtail, the problems gone. When I check the battery voltage now it shows 13.6 or thereabouts after being hooked up to the Optimate4.
Previously, going through the bikes can bus after disconnection the voltage would be around 12.6-12.75. These are average values because I checked then several times. Reassuringly, it now starts easier, so I don’t feel the need to carry the GB70 in the top box. Great videos and thanks again for the info
Great explanation! How did you get your hands on the CANbus wiring diagram for BMW ?
That is just the standard wiring diagram in the Haynes manual, which is a decent third party source. However, the wiring diagrams are pretty basic when you really start getting into the weeds.
It would be nice if I could get the wiring diagrams for my K1600 GT. They're not on the service manual CD.
Well, even if there is a Hanyes manual for your K bike, the wiring diagram may not be very accurate or detailed. Part of the issue is increasing complexity and the use of CANBUS and similar systems. Another part may just be the resources for publishers to do the research. Things have changed, that's for sure.
Hi. What make of crash bar do you have on your 1200RT as shown in the video?
Those are Ebay knock-offs of the Wunderlich crash bars. Truthfully, I think they are both made in the same factory. if you look on ebay under the RT model name you'll find somebody selling them.
I used to know a hyundai factory trained tech, he said the cpu's were very high spec, gold plated contacts etc and we're never the problem. But the sensors were all built down to a price.
It's funny, I was a mechanic in the 80s when computers first started being installed in cars, and old-school mechanics blamed them for everything. When their troubleshooting skills hit a wall: "Oh, the computer's bad!" In the 90s and 2000s most pros learned their lesson, but I still see a lot of DIY mechanics blaming the computer rather than tracing down bad wiring or failed sensors. The computers are pretty simple devices and they rarely go bad themselves. The firmware programs and the sensors, on the other hand, could use some improvement!
Where can i get my hands on the wire schematic? My fuel pump is weak does that need programming to replace like the fuel level strip
When you say your fuel pump is weak, do you mean you've pulled it out of the tank and tested volume or flow rate? I didn't think BMW publishes those specs, but maybe I'm wrong. To replace the fuel pump you just need to source the parts and do the mechanical work. The wiring schematic you see in the video is contained in the Haynes manual, but I should warn you that they are not super detailed.
Great video, but I'm interest to know about the manual you are using in the video... where can I get one???
We caught up by email, but for the next guy:
amzn.to/3p15kDf (04-09)
amzn.to/3qZSZRD (10-12)
amzn.to/37tiT8x (13-16)
the very last comment on power draw over time when the bike is "sleeping" is relevant to me. I have a 1200 GS from 2015, I cannot leave it more than 2 weeks unplugged from a battery tender (which is connected straight to the battery) otherwise the battery would go flat. In summary, the bike is never sleeping. And there is no way to put her to sleep, like removing the main fuse!
That's called parasitic draw, and you should be able to trace down what is causing it. One possibility is that some device on your bike is causing the CANBUS system to stay "awake" even when the bike is off. Other possibilities include an electrical draw from an alarm system or radio or GPS, or a battery which is faulty. Fortunately I have a video on this subject just for you! Take a look at this and see if it helps: czcams.com/video/AhqZwLnD9Jk/video.htmlsi=IG8mKNwAhIm1zqoq
@@tinderboxarts Thanks! I will have a look. Three's no GPS or radio, batteries I have had several and always with this behavior, the alarm ... yes, there is the factory alarm, which I leave off in my garage in the winter.
Thanks again for always informtive video. I'm thinking of acquiring another R 12oo Rt and being 70 i want to reduce the weight . are you of anyone who has ever remove the radio and all its compnent to save weigt?
Many of the RTs came standard without a radio anyway. You can certainly pull out an existing one, although the buttons on the left fairing would either have to be left in place or a new cover acquired. Maybe you'll find a model which doesn't have a radio anyway. Being a shorty, I have the factory low suspension model and it did not have a radio or the ESA suspension, both of which are weight savings.
Interesting when I bought my 2016 I had a version without a radio and was told I had the only one in Canada? I scrapped it on a deer!
I have a 2015 BMW R1200RT and I would like to know if my Throttle position sensor needs to be reset after replacing the battery. I have issue of starting bike. It will crank for long time before the bike starts.
I doubt your problem is related to a throttle position sensor. The computer does "learn" parameters of various sensors and removing power for a period can cause that memory to disappear. However, there are pre-programmed parameters as a starting point and the computer will re-learn parameters on the fly. You could turn your key to the on position, roll the throttle lock to lock three times, and then turn the key off. That will help the computer figure out the stops. However, if your bike is just cranking without starting, it's more likely you have a different issue related to fueling, to a camshaft or crankshaft position sensor, or perhaps a poor connection in the harness somewhere. I'm attaching a link to qa video on how to test a throttle position sensor, but your best bet is to connect a GS-911 scan tool or Motoscan App and see what kind of fault codes might exist.
czcams.com/video/TrUHNveVE3o/video.htmlsi=4Hbr1vm1r4JdYmkp
I have a 2016 BMW R1200GSA and looking for colored wiring diagrams. If you could steer me in the right direction would be great!
The two big aftermarket producers of service manuals for motorcycles are Haynes and Clymer. However, I think only Haynes publishes a book for your model year at present. I'll warn you that the wiring diagrams are not all that detailed. They provide a rough roadmap though. Lookup Haynes and your model year.
There are fewer wire but more sensor devices. That is why bmw have a myriad of electrical problems on top of the mechanical. Nowadays, the connectivity is via fiber optic with newr communication protocols. See for example new Lexus.
If you want to do any work on your BMW buy a GS911. They ain't cheap but they do the job. Also as for a smart charger I tried a cheap ar$d Lidl one in the DIN. Works perfectly. Quarter of the price of the Beemer one
I just bought a 2016 BMW R1200 GSA from a local dealer and they had to replace the battery, which had gone bad, on the day I picked it up. Two weeks later, the battery was too low to start after setting just five days. So I charged the battery and it ran just fine, but I measured the current drain by disconnecting the battMinus and it was 100 mA after delay. There was all kinds of funny pulsing going on and of course, 5 V and 0.1 A is 50 ohms, which is the impedance of the Can and Lin buses.
Called the dealer and they said they never heard of a parasitic drain problem with the BMW, but the internet is loaded with BMW parasitic drain problems. I found that the Lin Bus was not shutting down the power socket after the time delay and that was responsible for the drain. Such a 0.1 amp will drain a 12 Ah battery in 5 days, so how to solve.
I plugged a USB charger with a battery voltage display into the power socket and it showed that the power socket stayed on, but not always. The drain was 12.6 V to 12.4 V over 10 hrs, which will drain a battery to 9 V in 7 days, so just measuring voltage decay overnight is really enough to diagnose the drain.
I finally found that simply plugging a low cell phone into the USB charger was enough to reset the Lin Bus power socket. The current dropped to just 0.6 mA, which is 2.2 years, but of course, the battery itself drains faster than that.
Although the Can Bus runs some things, the Lin Bus "runs" the power socket and engine control unit (ECU) along with other things. I am taking it in to the shop to verify and see if there is a termination issue with that signal line... it is very possible that 0.1 A is due to a floating ground for an unterminated 5 V signal line... we will see...
Great detective work. I really think the implementation of those power sockets is a flawed idea. The "keep alive" function of the bus is too easily fooled, and there is no compelling reason to set up the sockets that way. They could have used an inline fuse instead for that circuit and avoided these sorts of trouble. That's one reason I use an SAE pigtail directly to the battery for charging. If you didn't see it, I did my own discussion of parasitic draw here: czcams.com/video/AhqZwLnD9Jk/video.html
Did you end up being able to diagnose your parasitic draw fault?
I thought that the later Post 2017 bikes were using LIN Bus as its a 12v protocol.
The LIN bus protocol is often used as a supplement to the CAN bus in modern vehicles because it's cheaper to implement. For certain things like radios, motorized mirrors, and certain censors it is becoming more popular. I have not had a chance to take a deep look at the newer models so it's possible the LIN bus is also there. As far as I know all the models still have CAN bus, though.
What about an R1200RT-P and using the police switches and wiring to power accessory lights?
It may be possible if all the old accessories are still there, but they often strip that stuff before sale. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of that gear is installed on a separate fuseblock and relay rather than through the factory harness.
Yes, all the gear except the switches is gone. This one (2005) has factory wiring harnesses and bracketry for police equipment. I've removed the ABS, factory speakers, and Aux battery, and am looking for a wiring diagram to locate the seat heater plug.
@@tinderboxarts
@@tinderboxarts Yes, all police equipment has been removed. The BMW police wiring harnesses are still there, as is a relay set under the rear box. Do you know if a R1200RT-P wiring diagram exists?
I'm not even sure if the police wiring is standard across departments and regions or not. However, there are several forums dedicated to police bikes and they would know better. One of them is on Facebook, so you might start there.
even I could understand that 🎉
Good video! After hearing that changing a light bulb will cause a pcode error I laughed. Leave to BMW to overcomplicate things so that only highly trained individuals with special tools can work on their bikes.
Ha! Well, we can't blame that entirely on BMW. It's really a problem for the whole industry as engineers try to squeeze more function and performance out of existing systems. And the LED lighting industry got ahead of itself by marketing bulbs to consumers without considering potential problems. What is a shame in that instance is that automotive/bike LED bulbs are now being made artificially less efficient simply to meet the programmed specifications in the vehicle computers. That's the tail wagging the dog. It should be a simple matter to alter the programming in order to use more efficient bulbs.
Thank you for this clear and concise explanation. Just last week on my 2008 / 50k mile RT, whilst riding I lost the RPM and Speedo gauges, also the ‘Brake failure red light’ and the ‘Front headlight’ bulb blown warning. Pulled over and inspected the bike (Wheels and brakes), then restarted. Other than both ‘low beam’ bulbs blown, bike was ‘normal’ with RPM / Speedo working. On replacing both lo beam bulbs, I found the plastic connector block to one bulb had a small bit missing, and the ‘blade connector’ a little loose. So I ‘crimped’ this a little tighter and replaced the bulb. No problems since. So I guess this had triggered the Can-Bus system. I know carry two spare bulbs...
Good afternoon friend
Please I really need your help
Where can I find the wiring diagrams for BMW motorcycle and Triumph motorcycle
Which scanner for diagnosis and programming of ECU Abs modules for BMW motorcycle would you recommend me to buy
where can i find to buy BMW motorcycle wiring diagrams
Thank you very much
God bless you
Haynes or Clymer are the two publishers of manuals with diagrams. The wiring diagrams may be simplified but that's all that is available. For a BMW scanner you'll want the GS-911 device. See these videos:
czcams.com/video/G7Wp0HCn2Rc/video.html
czcams.com/video/rsipwJpov38/video.html
@@tinderboxarts Goodnight friend
Sorry for the inconvenience
With the GS 911 tool, I can code a replaced module with a new or used part when I see a need for replacement
example: Dashboard
ABS module
Engine ECu
You see in that reference video everything it can do. To replace a computer module you may need to visit a dealer, that I'm not certain about.
The way you said “Ethernet” suggests to me you’re very familiar with (computer) data networks 😉
You got me! I spent 15 years in the computer industry in an earlier career. It was a wild ride, but I got weary of the corporate BS and eventually lost my interest.
tinderboxarts ahhh that explains it 👌🏼 I’ve been doing networking since the early 90’s. Glad I chose that over software development as it seems those guys have to learn an entirely new programming language every 5 years. Whereas the OSI model hasn’t changed in 40 years 😉. In fact it’s got easier as things like IPX, DECnet and token ring have disappeared completely!
Oh, gawd, yes! When I started around 1990 we were still using serial cables tied to muxes and 2400 baud modems on leased lines! X.25 and T-1 lines were for the big boys. I remember the heated arguments over coax versus twisted pair. Fiber? That'll never catch on. When the interweb heated up and I was playing with a linux server over in the corner there were sneers. I just added a second router in my home and was remembering how difficult it used to be compared to today. These boxes configure themselves now. Software went off the deep end, though. Today every corporate system and the internet itself is just a house of cards waiting for a stiff breeze. If the average person only knew!
tinderboxarts oh wow, I remember X.25. They were simpler times! Here in the UK it was all about ISDN which had 2 64kbps feeds. Back then 128kbps was super fast 😱
Can you reset the canbus?
That's an interesting question. When you first turn the key there will be a startup procedure the system goes through as it comes "alive" and checks the circuits. When the bike is off it should power itself down, otherwise it will draw power and could eventually run down the battery. So in a sense it is resetting itself each time you turn the key. If you disconnected and reconnected the battery totally I suppose that could be called a reset, but these systems don't typically require such a thing.
Thanks for your reply. My 2022 S1000xr is on bmw shop now going for a month. I had this brake light faulty. They don’t activate when pressing both brake levers but they light up when hitting turn signals. Im talking about the rear tails. By next week, i will ask for a buyback / lemon. I cannot believe that they cannot resolve it.
@ad78 that's disappointing for sure. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of incompetence at dealers these days. I don't know enough about that bike to offer a solution, but I would suspect the issue is basic wiring rather than a CANBUS programming problem. There could be a bad or missing ground or a bad turn signal switch, for example. A wiring diagram would help narrow it down, and presumably a dealer would have access to one! Whatever the case, that sort of problem would take no more than a couple of hours to sort out. I assume it's a warranty issue, otherwise I'd advise you to seek an independent mechanic.
@@tinderboxarts i agree with you. Nowadays, i dont know why they are hiring “tech” that dont understand how electrical works. Mid week next week and if the module will not cover it. I will ask for buy back or so called lemon
Its now the case that modern motorbikes and cars need to be taken to original car manufacturers to be ripped off
I know it can be intimidating and sometimes there are things which only a dealer can do, but in many cases the home mechanic can get things done. It's a matter of knowing your limitations, really. Truthfully, dealer mechanics are sometimes as confused as the rest of us!