John, don't apologize for discussing great content, even if it is not the most exciting. honest information presented without hype is a great change of pace. Please continue with what you do and how you do it.
John, this is NOT boring..this is a great conversation for us who are starting out learning how to use the land without hurting it and making it better for all things! Thx!
I am glad I stumbled across your channel. Jeff has talked you up for awhile on his channel. I tend to call the knock down crop green manure and the bulbs and other things left in the soil the organic matter. I do strictly no till on my place. Also, I find these videos way more watchable than just killing deer. I love this time of the year as we get ready to plant. My question, Should the rotation of brassicas be all inclusive? Meaning, do you need to rotate radish, turnip, etc at all the same rate... How many years can you get by planting them in a row?
Great video loaded with awesome information. All the details are very well explained which makes it simple to follow and understand. Thanks for all you are doing in these videos.
I learned something new today, thank you for the careful explanation! My OM % was 2.5% this spring in a brand new kill plot. I added some lime per my soil test, will be planting buckwheat at the end of the month and then brassicas into it in august. Always looking for new info and knowledge!
Great video John! Learned a lot from this as I thought just rolling down stuff would build my OM. Just found your channel even though I’ve listened to you on various platforms over the years. Your brassica sweet blend is still the talk of my plot! Rotating to soybeans next year, but I’ll be sure to order your brassica blend in the following year. My other upper Michigan property is just getting started with food plots so thinking lime and clover.
Great video John, please make sure Alan at Grand Valley Footwear and Outdoors orders some if you talk to him so I can get my hands on some. Love your videos...
Farmers add that organic matter back to the soil. I’m not a farmer but I live in farm country. Dairy farms spread an enormous amount of manure back on the soil in the spring. I would love to get some of that on my food plots. My soil is very sandy and I struggle to grow anything. This topic is key for me. Buckwheat doesn’t grow well for me. Rye is decent. Thinking about old straw to till in to add something.
When explaining organic matter percentage to friends and customers, I have equated it to the Richter scale, where each tenth of a point your number goes up, you get 40 percent more energy released. An earthquake of 4.6 releases 1.4 times as much energy as one that was 4.5, on the Richter scale. The same thing holds true with increasing OM, especially when you start with a number down under 2.0. If you increase it just one or two tenths per year, you are making substantial improvements in how much moisture your soil can hold and how well your plots will grow. When it comes to leaving vegetation on the surface of the soil versus minimum tillage options, there are three additional points I will mention. Some smaller earthworms live in the top 2-3 inches of soil and duff, when it is there for them to live in. They are responsible for processing vegetation that has died and is laying on the surface of the soil. Find a wet spot in the woods with a lot of leaf litter and turn over those leaves to find some of the best bait for bluegills you could possibly use! The second point is that there used to be heavy-hooved ungulates, like elk or bison, that would press vegetation down into the soil a little, where all of the tiny things that live in soil (biota) would start consuming it and processing it into stuff your next plot can grow from. That process is largely missing from the places we plant and minimal tillage can help replace it. Another thing that is almost always missing, and the third point I would like to mention, is the lack of fire on our food plots. Fire turns many layers of decaying vegetation into "biochar", which is an excellent organic matter component to add to your soil. OM actually exists in several different forms, each of which provides advantages to your soil, the stuff living there, and the plants growing from it. You can achieve many of the same advantages of soil-building, including improving organic matter, without any kind of tillage at all. As John points out, the roots of the stuff we grow add a lot of OM to the soil, as they decompose well below the surface. Some of the advantages of light tillage, meaning no more than 2-3 inches down, is it sets back any weeds or grasses you had growing and don't want in your food plot, and it creates a lot of exposed ground so you get better seed-to-soil contact for your next planting. One option to consider is using minimum tillage methods while establishing a plot but then converting over to true no-till solutions when the conditions are favorable.
HI john great video iv been doing m o on my land for 4 years now building up my soil and its working great i use to disk my food plots never had good food they would fill with weeds the ground would have cracks being so dry with no rain don,t have this problem any more getting ready to plant my brassica i purchase from you thangs for your product
Could you do video on how you recommend planting your northwoods plotscreen HD thanks love the channel bought the seed for while had great results keep uo great work john!!
Hey John good stuff as always. I do a notill program simply because of time ,money and lack of equipment, My question is when not disking in your cover crop does it build OM slower or faster?
Good question. I have not done a side by side comparison of tilled vs notill. Om% increase will vary from soil to soil as well as crops used. We may have been on the higher end of the scale with our results. But I would expect a pure notill process world get the same results.
Hey John, I’m just abit north of you and I’m in my 5th year of food plotting and still learning a lot. Your videos are so helpful for us guys still learning the basics. Was wondering if you could comment or do a video on throw n mow or your most preferred method of planting. I’m trying to be as efficient as possible and minimize fertilizer and roundup. I followed a forum on throw and mow and seems a lot of guys had success and greatly reduced their fertilizer and roundup. Was wondering what your thoughts were on this. Also I was wondering if it would be a good idea for us guys in the far north to plant fall food plots in mid July. Even with four acres my food plots are decimated by November 1st. Over mature plants seemed to be frowned upon but I would love to have that extra tonnage. My deer eat everything anyway. Thanks!
All the talk of soil life destruction and depletion of is more geared to full tillage row cropland , my garden gets tilled and has lots of soil life and good organic matter
"Organic" means carbon content. You briefly mrntioned fungi, but oft times the growth of fungi, fed by root exudates from photosynthesis contributes more underground OM than the roots themselves! The soil biome taking free Nitrogen AND carbon from the air eventually making them available to the plants with help from bacteria.. That said, don't discount the value of leaf shade keeping the Sun from baking the soil surface (and the micobial community).
I've grown buckwheat, then seeded in my fall plot seeds..come the following spring, i disc my plots..firmly believe this speeds up the green manure breakdown in the soil
Yes For hundreds of years farmers have used “green manure” to help build and maintain their soils and prep for the next crop. Anytime we do a minimum tiller pass, we are always putting something green back into the ground.
Great info Sir. Only one question. I have never tilled but will to lurn new things so when you use the say shallow tillage. What depth are you referring to?
When will planting instructions be available on your website? Also, if you spray Simazine, how long must you wait to plant Switchgrass or the Sorgum? Thanks for doing these videos as they are very insightful!
Very much like the content and everyone needs to understand it for long term plot health. John, plot soil tests tests came back with higher (7.2-7.6) ph's. no lime needed, however what is the best crops to plant for that condition. Thanks, Mike
You mention tilling under clover, do you minimum til that in or a deeper till prior to planting fall seed? Also, for your HD Screen, what does one do the next spring if they want to plan it every year? Till deep under or minimum till under? I bought seed last year from you and will do so again this year but i'm trying to get away from the Jeff Sturgis system and go more towards planting soil build system and till under in fall to plant fall food like you are mentioning. It would be great if you could put a document on your site that has the process from start to finish as that might stop you from getting so many questions like I have asked here,
Clover is shallow tilled in July for brassica. The hd screen residue is tilled at one inch. We may add rye in the spring before will till lasts years hd screen residue under in June. We will be doing more videos on all these processes very soon. Questions are good 👍
John.....is there any benefit in lightly tilling a food plot that is alive or tilling it after you have killed it with RU? You hear a lot about discussion green manure, what exactly is it? Thanks, Bob
I would advise you to stay away from herbicides, as much as possible. Atrazine has been a known carcinogen since its introduction, and paraquat is just as bad when it comes to messing with genetic material, Dicamba (and similar chemicals) are highly volatile and drift in the air. Glyphosate has been patented as an herbicide, a chelator (long story short- it ties up nutrients so plants can't use them), an anti-biological agent, has been shown to block the formation of plant metabolites (the main reason it works as an herbicide) (which makes it less nutritious to the animals that eat it, along with consuming small amounts of glyphosate in the food), and trials with mice have shown some pretty nasty delayed, multi-generational effects from exposure to it in their environment (shorter lifespans, increase in chronic illness, poor fertility, and increased birth defects). I have yet to see a species become tolerant to steel, while herbicide resistance is increasing rapidly due to natural horizontal gene/endophyte transfer and poor applications.
Love the discussions! Wondering is a once over with a disc. would work as a roll down? Also wondering if this might upset soil a little to get better germination for cereal rye, BuckWheat or soil builder?
Yes That will work great with our soil builder. A little soil disturbance is not a bad thing in all our experiences. People have to do what will work the best for their situation. We are not all blessed with great soil and consistent rains. Getting the seed into the ground is as good a situation as you can get.
Hi John, I love these videos. I want to piggy back on Greg’s question. I just purchased some switch grass from you. The simazine confuses me a little on how long I need to wait to plant or broadcast my switch after applying it, given it may stay in the soil 2-3 months.
I've been doing small clover plot for years. I wish I would have known some of this back then. I am having trouble with stiltgrass talking over my ground and killing the native forbs any tips would be appreciated thanks for your time
John, I recently timbered my land and had a 4 acre food plot cleared off. It is just bare soil and I haven’t had a soil test done. What do you recommend to build organic matter? I am going to spread 4,ton of lime and 500 lbs of 19-19-19. I have that left over from my food plots last yr. Planning on planting cereal rye in September but what do I plant until that time? I am in WV.
Your opininion: discing in a clover mix ( anuals perenials) in the fall ,decent soil,not sand not clay.dropping some coin on tilling and seed this spring.if i get a repeating clover crop is it a bad idea? What about mowing clover with brassica( your mix) ...basically no herbicides.to much adjacent wetland,ditches carrying potential runoff.only till every 2.5/ 3years.
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 well i guess i,ll seperate out the clover and brassica when we plant tomorrow with some overlap,only have an acre.full sun,can irrigate if need be.later in summer.
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 understood.will hold off on brassica till late summer if we have rain.fall is our dry season here in e tn.if not i,ll try a frost seed.
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 really trying to build soil and grow corn same time without heavy discing every year and destroying the soil didnt know how to accomplish that?
@@joeacerra1939 rye radishes winter peas fall plot Drill corn into rye in the spring and spray rye. Mow to chop up corn the next spring and plant soil builder crimson clover combo . Fall go back to rye combo.
John, don't apologize for discussing great content, even if it is not the most exciting. honest information presented without hype is a great change of pace. Please continue with what you do and how you do it.
Agreed,the guy is a well spring of foodplot wisdom.
John, this is NOT boring..this is a great conversation for us who are starting out learning how to use the land without hurting it and making it better for all things! Thx!
I am glad I stumbled across your channel. Jeff has talked you up for awhile on his channel. I tend to call the knock down crop green manure and the bulbs and other things left in the soil the organic matter. I do strictly no till on my place. Also, I find these videos way more watchable than just killing deer. I love this time of the year as we get ready to plant.
My question, Should the rotation of brassicas be all inclusive? Meaning, do you need to rotate radish, turnip, etc at all the same rate... How many years can you get by planting them in a row?
I would not do more than 2 years in a row of brassica
Get a spring crop of grains / sorghum and an annual clover before the fall planted brassica.
Great video loaded with awesome information. All the details are very well explained which makes it simple to follow and understand. Thanks for all you are doing in these videos.
I love the idea of adding new seeds on account of rising OM% above 3%
This was great John! I learned a lot! Keep them coming.
I learned something new today, thank you for the careful explanation! My OM % was 2.5% this spring in a brand new kill plot. I added some lime per my soil test, will be planting buckwheat at the end of the month and then brassicas into it in august. Always looking for new info and knowledge!
Excellent breakdown, love the metaphors
Great video John! Learned a lot from this as I thought just rolling down stuff would build my OM. Just found your channel even though I’ve listened to you on various platforms over the years. Your brassica sweet blend is still the talk of my plot! Rotating to soybeans next year, but I’ll be sure to order your brassica blend in the following year. My other upper Michigan property is just getting started with food plots so thinking lime and clover.
This is great. Thank you. I have been wondering why my brassicas don't do real well. My property is around Gaylord Michigan. The soil is pretty sandy
I learned minimal tillage isn't horrible. Thanks for the info, and keep it coming. Thanks!!
It’s not terrible.
Soil tests don’t lie.
Great video John, please make sure Alan at Grand Valley Footwear and Outdoors orders some if you talk to him so I can get my hands on some. Love your videos...
We are filling an order for him in a week or two.
Thanks!
The rule of thumb is whatever % your OM equates to the amount of rain in inches of holding power
Farmers add that organic matter back to the soil. I’m not a farmer but I live in farm country. Dairy farms spread an enormous amount of manure back on the soil in the spring. I would love to get some of that on my food plots. My soil is very sandy and I struggle to grow anything. This topic is key for me. Buckwheat doesn’t grow well for me. Rye is decent. Thinking about old straw to till in to add something.
Roots are the answer
Not many people are able to haul in stuff. But most can grow plants with big root systems to build OM
When explaining organic matter percentage to friends and customers, I have equated it to the Richter scale, where each tenth of a point your number goes up, you get 40 percent more energy released. An earthquake of 4.6 releases 1.4 times as much energy as one that was 4.5, on the Richter scale. The same thing holds true with increasing OM, especially when you start with a number down under 2.0. If you increase it just one or two tenths per year, you are making substantial improvements in how much moisture your soil can hold and how well your plots will grow.
When it comes to leaving vegetation on the surface of the soil versus minimum tillage options, there are three additional points I will mention. Some smaller earthworms live in the top 2-3 inches of soil and duff, when it is there for them to live in. They are responsible for processing vegetation that has died and is laying on the surface of the soil. Find a wet spot in the woods with a lot of leaf litter and turn over those leaves to find some of the best bait for bluegills you could possibly use! The second point is that there used to be heavy-hooved ungulates, like elk or bison, that would press vegetation down into the soil a little, where all of the tiny things that live in soil (biota) would start consuming it and processing it into stuff your next plot can grow from. That process is largely missing from the places we plant and minimal tillage can help replace it. Another thing that is almost always missing, and the third point I would like to mention, is the lack of fire on our food plots. Fire turns many layers of decaying vegetation into "biochar", which is an excellent organic matter component to add to your soil.
OM actually exists in several different forms, each of which provides advantages to your soil, the stuff living there, and the plants growing from it. You can achieve many of the same advantages of soil-building, including improving organic matter, without any kind of tillage at all. As John points out, the roots of the stuff we grow add a lot of OM to the soil, as they decompose well below the surface. Some of the advantages of light tillage, meaning no more than 2-3 inches down, is it sets back any weeds or grasses you had growing and don't want in your food plot, and it creates a lot of exposed ground so you get better seed-to-soil contact for your next planting. One option to consider is using minimum tillage methods while establishing a plot but then converting over to true no-till solutions when the conditions are favorable.
I'll be doing that thanks
HI john great video iv been doing m o on my land for 4 years now building up my soil and its working great i use to disk my food plots never had good food they would fill with weeds the ground would have cracks being so dry with no rain don,t have this problem any more getting ready to plant my brassica i purchase from you thangs for your product
Broadcasting your screen in mid may into existing clover plot works. 60 70% germination. Mow it out mid-August.
Excellent content not too in the"weeds" basic info great video
Wow! Great info! Thanks!
John, keep up the great content! Will you ever give updates on how your own planted rc big rock switchgrass is doing?
Probably this summer
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 fire it up! Can’t wait to see that!
Could you do video on how you recommend planting your northwoods plotscreen HD thanks love the channel bought the seed for while had great results keep uo great work john!!
Hey John good stuff as always.
I do a notill program simply because of time ,money and lack of equipment,
My question is when not disking in your cover crop does it build OM slower or faster?
Good question.
I have not done a side by side comparison of tilled vs notill.
Om% increase will vary from soil to soil as well as crops used. We may have been on the higher end of the scale with our results. But I would expect a pure notill process world get the same results.
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 Thanks for the quick response
great video!...Learned a bunch... When you say shallow tilling. how shallow?
1 inch
Hey John, I’m just abit north of you and I’m in my 5th year of food plotting and still learning a lot. Your videos are so helpful for us guys still learning the basics. Was wondering if you could comment or do a video on throw n mow or your most preferred method of planting. I’m trying to be as efficient as possible and minimize fertilizer and roundup. I followed a forum on throw and mow and seems a lot of guys had success and greatly reduced their fertilizer and roundup. Was wondering what your thoughts were on this. Also I was wondering if it would be a good idea for us guys in the far north to plant fall food plots in mid July. Even with four acres my food plots are decimated by November 1st. Over mature plants seemed to be frowned upon but I would love to have that extra tonnage. My deer eat everything anyway. Thanks!
I’ve tried throw and mow multiple times and most of the time it was a failure, or. Poor results.
I plant our plots late July to early august .
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 .. thanks!
All the talk of soil life destruction and depletion of is more geared to full tillage row cropland , my garden gets tilled and has lots of soil life and good organic matter
This is very interesting actually. How about topdressing compost?
It can be done.
But just like the tree analogy, it make some time before it becomes OM
"Organic" means carbon content. You briefly mrntioned fungi, but oft times the growth of fungi, fed by root exudates from photosynthesis contributes more underground OM than the roots themselves!
The soil biome taking free Nitrogen AND carbon from the air eventually making them available to the plants with help from bacteria..
That said, don't discount the value of leaf shade keeping the Sun from baking the soil surface (and the micobial community).
Also what does the cec# represent regarding soil and what number is strived for
I've grown buckwheat, then seeded in my fall plot seeds..come the following spring, i disc my plots..firmly believe this speeds up the green manure breakdown in the soil
Yes
For hundreds of years farmers have used “green manure” to help build and maintain their soils and prep for the next crop.
Anytime we do a minimum tiller pass, we are always putting something green back into the ground.
Great info Sir. Only one question. I have never tilled but will to lurn new things so when you use the say shallow tillage. What depth are you referring to?
One inch
Maybe 2 at most
@Northwoods Whitetails Food Plot Seed thank you for the response. I am enjoying your wealth of knowledge
When will planting instructions be available on your website? Also, if you spray Simazine, how long must you wait to plant Switchgrass or the Sorgum? Thanks for doing these videos as they are very insightful!
They are done. I just have to figure out how to get them on the website .
Sorry, I’m not very tech savvy lol.
Very much like the content and everyone needs to understand it for long term plot health. John, plot soil tests tests came back with higher (7.2-7.6) ph's. no lime needed, however what is the best crops to plant for that condition.
Thanks, Mike
that will depend on plot size and deer density
@@johnkomp4182 Southern Michigan, plenty of deer; 6 plots about 3/4 to 1 acre each, spread on 160 mostly wooded acres surrounded by AG.
@@mikebutler5317 probably 20% clovers
40% brassica blend
40% fall forage/red clover /radishes combo
Great discussion John
You mention tilling under clover, do you minimum til that in or a deeper till prior to planting fall seed? Also, for your HD Screen, what does one do the next spring if they want to plan it every year? Till deep under or minimum till under? I bought seed last year from you and will do so again this year but i'm trying to get away from the Jeff Sturgis system and go more towards planting soil build system and till under in fall to plant fall food like you are mentioning. It would be great if you could put a document on your site that has the process from start to finish as that might stop you from getting so many questions like I have asked here,
Clover is shallow tilled in July for brassica.
The hd screen residue is tilled at one inch. We may add rye in the spring before will till lasts years hd screen residue under in June.
We will be doing more videos on all these processes very soon.
Questions are good 👍
When you say shallow tillage’s is that 1”or 2” thank you
@@waynegalyen6176 yes
Our tiller is set at one inch deep for all our green manure plow downs
John, you mentioned to Wayne about setting your “tiller” to depth. I do not have a tiller. Is light disking as effective?
@@stevebostic9812 yes.
We just want the red clover lightly incorporated into the ground.
John.....is there any benefit in lightly tilling a food plot that is alive or tilling it after you have killed it with RU? You hear a lot about discussion green manure, what exactly is it?
Thanks, Bob
We do not spray our “green manure” plow down crops.
Just mow if needed ( rye ) and till later
I would advise you to stay away from herbicides, as much as possible. Atrazine has been a known carcinogen since its introduction, and paraquat is just as bad when it comes to messing with genetic material, Dicamba (and similar chemicals) are highly volatile and drift in the air. Glyphosate has been patented as an herbicide, a chelator (long story short- it ties up nutrients so plants can't use them), an anti-biological agent, has been shown to block the formation of plant metabolites (the main reason it works as an herbicide) (which makes it less nutritious to the animals that eat it, along with consuming small amounts of glyphosate in the food), and trials with mice have shown some pretty nasty delayed, multi-generational effects from exposure to it in their environment (shorter lifespans, increase in chronic illness, poor fertility, and increased birth defects).
I have yet to see a species become tolerant to steel, while herbicide resistance is increasing rapidly due to natural horizontal gene/endophyte transfer and poor applications.
Love the discussions! Wondering is a once over with a disc. would work as a roll down? Also wondering if this might upset soil a little to get better germination for cereal rye, BuckWheat or soil builder?
Yes
That will work great with our soil builder. A little soil disturbance is not a bad thing in all our experiences.
People have to do what will work the best for their situation. We are not all blessed with great soil and consistent rains. Getting the seed into the ground is as good a situation as you can get.
Hi John, I love these videos. I want to piggy back on Greg’s question. I just purchased some switch grass from you. The simazine confuses me a little on how long I need to wait to plant or broadcast my switch after applying it, given it may stay in the soil 2-3 months.
You can plant soon after Simizine. We do any way and see zero problems. Simizine will mostly target broadleaf weeds .
I've been doing small clover plot for years. I wish I would have known some of this back then. I am having trouble with stiltgrass talking over my ground and killing the native forbs any tips would be appreciated thanks for your time
Can you spray clethodim
Hi John. For your hd screening what would you use to cover the seed. Just a tow behind chain drag? I’m looking for something easy to purchase.
The screen seed needs to be buried 1/2 to 1 inch deep then rolled over
Great video how late in the year can you plant your soil builder
Now is close to the time being over up north
John, I recently timbered my land and had a 4 acre food plot cleared off. It is just bare soil and I haven’t had a soil test done. What do you recommend to build organic matter? I am going to spread 4,ton of lime and 500 lbs of 19-19-19. I have that left over from my food plots last yr. Planning on planting cereal rye in September but what do I plant until that time? I am in WV.
The soil builder in the spring
And let’s see what a soil test says before fall selection
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 thanks
Your opininion: discing in a clover mix ( anuals perenials) in the fall ,decent soil,not sand not clay.dropping some coin on tilling and seed this spring.if i get a repeating clover crop is it a bad idea? What about mowing clover with brassica( your mix) ...basically no herbicides.to much adjacent wetland,ditches carrying potential runoff.only till every 2.5/ 3years.
You can add a little clover to brassica , not much IMO
Possibly crimson
Or frost seed into it in the spring with annual clover to plow down that fall
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 well i guess i,ll seperate out the clover and brassica when we plant tomorrow with some overlap,only have an acre.full sun,can irrigate if need be.later in summer.
@@keithknechg3217I would not plant spring brassica
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 understood.will hold off on brassica till late summer if we have rain.fall is our dry season here in e tn.if not i,ll try a frost seed.
Howi about cow mature spread and tilled in. Would that build OM ?
Not very fast
And lots of weed seeds
What is your thoughts on frost seeding clover in winter rye then mow off the rye . providing I can see ground .Thank you
Great strategy
Whatclover blend do you have and recommend . and have in stock Going to order my sorghum screen soon Thanks@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663
@@danbraucher937 either the clover blend or clover blend plus is a great choice
Could you plant soil builder and do a light disc with corn or do you have to do a full till with that?
Not sure what you mean?
Are you trying to plant corn after soil builder
@@northwoodswhitetailsfoodpl2663 really trying to build soil and grow corn same time without heavy discing every year and destroying the soil didnt know how to accomplish that?
@@joeacerra1939 rye radishes winter peas fall plot
Drill corn into rye in the spring and spray rye.
Mow to chop up corn the next spring and plant soil builder crimson clover combo . Fall go back to rye combo.
Is it possible to not till at all?
Possibly
With spraying and roller or no till drill.
How deep where you tilling?
If we till
It’s about 1 inch deep