Mortis and the One Theory to unite them all (Prime Jedi, Force Priestess & Gods of Mortis)
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2018
- In this video I discuss what exactly is Mortis and purpose a theory to begin to tie many different things together.
Follow me on twitter @Tell_Kanjiklub - Zábava
I love how the daughter is meant to be seen as just as bad as the son except her side of everything is clearly paradise
Not quite, the daughter is equally underhanded, scheming and manipulative, and her interventions lead directly to the death of their father ahead of time causing a huge galactic wide crisis that could have perhaps been avoided by simply waiting for Anakin to be ready. She also happily manipulates Asoka at the beginning of the episode, and is just as happy to cause violence and destruction as her brother, even if she isn't the one to start the fighting... The entire plot is a nice reflection of how Jedi wreak havoc even by doing the morally right thing, simply because they are intervening in the natural order of things in an artificial way. As the saying goes, 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Both paths lead to the same outcome because they are both inherently unstable, and require the other to continue their own existence, creating an ever faster bipolar spiral of destruction.
@@thomascrabtree underrated comment
@@thomascrabtree She was all loving, they kind of stole Jesus's line, "forgive them father for they know not what they do" and rebranded it, "do not be angry with him father, it is his nature"
Basically people do bad things in the name of what they believe in. Equally good and bad is what you’re saying ? We’re all guilty lol
@@thomascrabtree I mean yes the storyline makes sense, but her stuff is 10x prettier and the sons looks like literal hell
I lean towards your third theory, the father being a Jedi and the chosen one of his time. Star Wars has such a rich lore to explore and yet, we get the sequel trilogy instead.
That truly is one of the more disappointing aspects of the sequel trilogy. There is so much lore, from George Lucas himself, that could be delved further into.... yet all we get is Rey who is powerful because Kylo Ren is powerful.... and she learns how to use the Force by downloading Kylo's training from his mind.
Maybe the Father is like the Dalai Lama, when one dies, the universe creates another to replace him.
@@roberthradek7100 That's very interesting
Phantom Sky
Yeah, but Since Anakin was the Chosen One, powerful enough to tame both the Son and the Daughter, then after Anakin died, balance was restored and so there’s no need to replace him.
So the Father was essentially the Chosen One destined to keep the well of the force (Mortis) in balance, and then once the galaxy at large had Anakin appear, the father could then die and I guess have some of his energy passed on to Anakin, so that Anakin could bring balance once and for all in the grand scheme of things.
The Father may have essentially been a place holder, and now that Anakin has achieved his Prophetic goal, no more Chosen One’s are required.
So no, this means Rey is not the Chosen One.
That or even just a powerful force user. I wish they would talk about other sects of force users other than the sith and jedi
I loved when Anakin tell the Son "You are Sith!" and he chuckles and laughs and says, "Yes... and no". Plus the Son wanted to use Anakin to destroy everything, including the Sith.
Yes it shows you the darksides true nature of thier ideals of peace being similar with isolation an solitude. Qn how the sith will ultimately destroy itself because of the dark sides very nature. Like with bane destroying the one sith order an Vader finishing off sidious order. Also the father flat out says he must now do the same thing he did thier in order to maintain balance an thats destroy both sides in order to keep the balance. They were literally in a force heaven above the cosmos an now aniken had to go below to maintain that same balance.
Yea then the Son Started talking like Palpatine showing the son knows of Palpatines weird way of speech
The Son was going to be the villain of ep9, until disney decided that they didn't like Lucas' ideas to save the film.
is that true?
@@Spoogebro JJ went to George for advice on what they should do for ep9 because the main villain was prematurely killed off, so George suggested that they make the Son the villain. This was before they actually brought him in to help with the editing and reshoots
Wasn’t the Son killed during the Clone Wars?
@@EricJayyyy yes, but he wqs the embodiment of the darkside, so I'd assume he just wasn't able to manifest into a physical form. Plus according to disney, No one's ever truely gone...
better late than never Good point! 😯
We simply don't know how the events on Mortis affected the galaxy as a whole. I would dare say that the Sith were kept in check and the Jedi remained on top only as long as the Father was around to help tame the physical avatar of the dark side. I don't think it's coincidence that within a two years of the Father's death, the Jedi were overthrown and for the past 50+ years of galactic history, the Dark Side has reigned and both Jedi Order's have easily collapsed.
The Star Wars Questioner maybe Luke was destined to become the new father? Or, maybe Rey will become the mother?
I don't think much changed after the Mortis arc. The Son and Daughter were equally weakened and Anakin is technically the Father rather he wants to be or not lol
Yo Momma Yeah well I don’t think The Son is dead. He didn’t disappear like The Father did he? Go try and get a boo yah elsewhere
Yo Momma Whoops!! But the Son isn’t Sith. Remember how he laughed at the thought of it?
Which Priestess? One of the Whills Yoda met? I don't think he's a Force Ghost though. Look at The Daughter, she's living on through Ahskoa or that bird
Yeah, the “Jedi signal not used in 2000 years” detail seems pretty important to any theory about who/what the Father is...
@Royal S I’m interested what would’ve happened if Anakin had taken the Father’s place permanently... would he have ascended to the level of a celestial or did his immaculate conception maybe make him like half-celestial to begin with?
@Royal S I believe the Mother was once mortal... but she became a literal Force of nature... of course none of that’s cannon anymore
@@chazblank2717 ahh yes the old cannon........
It was beautiful
@@chazblank2717 why is it not canon anymore? Is it because of the new high republic Disney is making? I mean, this universe seems so interesting to me and I just think it's such a waste letting it go
@@eduardosalas9025 The Mother was an antagonist to Luke and his Jedi Order in the sequel era of Legends... or as KK sees it, just another “non-existent” piece of backstory and lore in the billion dollar IP Disney put her in charge of.
Okay so headcanon time - what if the son WAS in Episode 9 and we just didn’t know it? He and the daughter can “change their shape influenced by the life forms around them” (or something along those lines, I can’t remember the exact quote from the first episode of the arc) but this meant that he appeared to Anakin as his mother.
A theory I’m liking the sound of is that the Darth Sidious from Ep 9 isn’t actually the Darth Sidious we see die at the end of “Return of the Jedi” but is in fact The Son taking on the shape and most recent memory of the dark side.
In the behind the scenes for these episodes, Same Witwer (the Son’s voice actor) was told to pull inspiration from as many Sith and darksiders as possible, (including Sidious’ voice) kind of like he was “all the Sith”. The Daughter is seen as a reincarnated owl in Rebels - what if something similar happened to The Son? (It’d be kinda funny if Sidious had a little bat that hung around him but that’s beside the point)
Maybe the Son found Sidious’ son and was able to barely manifest himself as his father BUT as soon as Rey was born with a mass of untapped force powers, he saw the potential for another Anakin style situation “if you control the chosen one you control the balance” and tries to hunt her down to either train her or eliminate her. (I really like the idea of multiple chosen ones throughout generations in different familial arrangements like the Egyptian Gods and I reckon in this scenario, Rey could’ve been either the light or the balance).
This would even make some degree of sense as to why Han appears to Kylo in the movie - the daughter has the same powers but a different motive from the son. Han is dead but she reflects the light of his memory to give Kylo a chance at redemption. She wouldn’t get as involved as The Son does however because by her nature, she is passive and observant, letting the will of the force shape events rather than her own will.
AND that makes much more sense as to why Sidious wants Rey to kill him and become him because he is just a dying memory of her grandfather. The father mentions how The Son’s strength runs through him so he’d understand that killing Rey now would in fact diminish his power. But if she becomes him, the balance would be thrown out of whack and the dark would rise once again, even stronger.
All of this was a bit of a brain fart, but I like thinking of the movie this way rather than taking it at face value. I feel this gives more meaning to Anakin’s sacrifice at the end of ROTJ than merely “Sidious was alive the whole time”. And bits of it just fit nicely together... (aside from that huge secret fleet but cmon how we gonna explain that?)
I like the idea of more than when chosen one. I also like the idea of each galaxy having a chosen one at one time each being chosen by the father, mother (if this is the eu abeloth), son, and daughter. I think this could be a cool way to explain the oozhan vongs actions (this is just a concept not a theory)
i love this but i don’t think Disney is this big brain enough
I’m just gonna accept this as cannon
Disney would have explicitly stated this by now to save face if this was even close to their plan.
"brain fart"? Not at all! That's great writing and solves a couple of the problems the sequels have.
In the novelization of Episode I, we are told Qui Gonn was working on a way to transcend death as a force ghost
The idea of Rey & Kylo symbolizing the Daughter & the Son is really intriguing, imo. Maybe each Chosen One (if there are multiple Chosen Ones over time) is meant to be the Father or the Mother. I doubt current-day Lucasfilm puts much thought into the more cosmic elements of the saga, but I think tying the new trilogy into Mortis would be a very effective way to conclude the story.
they do hint it with the line "darkness rise and light to meet it"
but i rather they kept the original lucas idea of the balance of the farce being the absence of the dark side, instead of presence of both light and dark
after all, the dark side is associated with all the destructive aspects, and positive emotions like love (lucas is a hippy after all) being the light
disney already have gone pretty deep on the lore by trying to put the very first jedi temple on the main storyline. which to me is one the more risky decisions to be made in an universe that has more than 10000 years of space travel within the core worlds, without counting the civilizations pre-republic
to your point Snoke implies that Balance is inherent and thusly there is no need for anybody to balance the Force because it just pops out a new balance when needed.
and that is my biggest fear, we don't know where snoke knowledge ends, he may have talked about how he see the force's will but not actually be correct
that is why i rather they kept the original intent of how the force acts in the SW universe
if the force actively tries to balance it by creating both dark and "light", then the sith are in fact the ones who are correct, the sith philosophy, the one based on objectivism, on nazism, on individualism, the one made to be the villains in a black and white AU flashgordon fanfiction, as the morally and factually correct ones
if the force create force users like anakin and rey so they would bring balance, at the same time the force creates plagueis/sidious and snoke/kylo to bring darkness, that would be the sith doctrine being proven right
and i want then to avoid that at all cost
@@zennim125 why?
@@soleo2783 because while jedi preserve the force, sith attempt to control and guided in all it's manners
if in a period of peace, where the dark side is absent, the force creates a dark side balancer, that means the force is the enemy of peace.
the sith philosophy demands to make the force makes what is ideal for the individual, the individual is the one to guide the force so it attends to the individual demand. If the force is causing ruin, controlling the force is the only moral choice to be done in name of peace
the sith would be the morally correct doctrine when contrasted with the jedi, who would follow the force will, will that can include created literal cartoon villains in name of a false sense of balance
The theory of the line of Chosen-ones Jedi charged to replace one another in order to keep the balance between the two embodiment of the Force's sides is just marvellous. The reinterpretation of the prophecy it encompasses adds so much to the universe and goes way beyond the debates about who did restore balance between Anakin and Luke. Even the "journal of the Whills" fits into this theory. It could be the journal made of the history of the Chosen-ones to one another.
Great videos, even two years after. One of the best, if not the best I watched about Mortis !
Luke and Leia were to be son and daughter, as Anakin to be father. Thats why hes named Vader
dre shep
What does “Vader” mean then? It means father?
Actually it means father in another language. In english Vader is derived from invade. meaning to enter a place or situation in large numbers. so the Force...the Mediclorians invaded Anakin body in large numbers. "Hence forth! You"ll shall be known as Darth...Vader...."
Hmm, no shit? Pretty cool...
@@thalmoragent9344 funnily in Dutch it litteraly means father
J vH German too but it’s spelled different
“Balance in Star Wars is about finding a harmonious or symbiotic blend of the [dark and light sides]”
What a great way of putting it, TS
but everywhere else selfish use of the force is a subtle and deeply corrupting influence, this is why the sith have risen in the galaxy again and again over thousands of years. there can be no synergy between the dark and light, because there aren't actually different forms of the force, but only the different use of the force: selflessness of the jedi, and selfishness of the sith.
(mortis is a misunderstanding of the nature of the difference between the jedi and sith)
@@jaqssmith1666 why you gotta be any of both
This is easily my favorite story arc from The Clone Wars, so much so that I was actually a little disappointed that the story was told as part of a TV show as opposed to being given a movie. Any story that enriches the lore like this deserves its praise. Your idea of Anakin not being the first Chosen One is intriguing and makes you wonder what would have happened had Anakin chosen to stay even if it's a bit reminiscent of Neo from The Matrix. Very enjoyable video. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
(Re: 4:00) I agree, but I also think it should be _impossible_ not just "a bad idea" to change past events if they've already happened for certain in that way. I see it as _Prisoner-of-Azkaban_-style time travel, where there is one timeline where it was always that way. There was no timeline in which Buckbeak got killed; they had "always" gone back to save him, just as Harry had "always" been the one to save past-Harry with the patronus. In the same way, there was no timeline in which Ahsoka was killed; Ezra had "always" pulled her out, past-him just didn't see it. The difference with Kannan is that Ezra saw Kannan being killed, and experienced being pushed away from the explosion by Kannan, so those events were set with it being impossible to change them. At least that's my interpretation.
but if ahsoka didn't stop him, ezra would have interfered
that is why you should NEVER, never EVER, introduce time travel on a story that isn't specifically about time travel
now a possibility of time travel exists, the force can allow someone to travel in time, and there is no such a thing as being impossible to change, if ahsoka didn't stop him, ezra would have saved kanan, and there is nothing that says that isn't a possibility, ahsoka should have died, and she didn't and we actually don't know if a time paradox was or was not created
did vader always saw her disappearing before his eyes? when obi wan did the same thing, did vader assume kenobi had the same fate as ahsoka?
also, what if ezra saw the portal for kanan death before seeing ahsoka's? what would be the ramifications of that? because that is a possible scenario, and the will of the force isn't a suitable answer, it would be a equivalent of "a wizard did it"
hidalgo allowed a crack on the star wars lore that is fatal, and if dave keeps getting his way he will obliterate the star wars universe
But that’s the same portal palps used. I think it was palps trying to get Ezra to open the portal
I like how people get heated about a made up story and how the made up physics of time travel would work in this fantasy universe.
I agree with the mystery of a Star Wars being the heart of the Universe. George Lucas, as a devotee of Joseph Campbell, set out out to create a Mythology, one that ultimately revolver on the Skywalkers.
The Daughter - the Jedi
The Son - the Sith
The Father- the Whills
The arc focuses on the struggles of a family, which has always been the core facet of Lucas's Star Wars saga
JJ Abrams has said he wants to tie in all films, spinoffs, and tv shows in Episode IX, so hopefully the Mortis arc factors into the Skywalker finale!
Ha not likely!
Well sure, there are similarities afterall, Kylo and the Son are both Edgelords and Rey is prettey much the daughter reborn.
@@DenDhur
Whos big dada?
@@pseudonymousbeing987 whom ever wears the pope-like hat the best. Who'd you pick?
That's an interesting concept, actually. Rey being the reborn daughter would explain her abilities and also tie Mortis into the new trilogy quite well.
It's less that the "beauty is in the mystery" and more that fans outright reject any attempts to explain and/or expand on the force.
I agree. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, & I totally hate the Mortis story arc.
Seth Hultkrantz You do, that’s the coolest thing about Magic
@@SM-or1wo Tbh hard magic systems are much cooler than soft magic systems, but the fans want Star Wars to be a soft magic system that is unpredictable.
@@sithsquid1 Why? I'm just curious what your reasons are.
@@warriorwatch2406 The story felt weirdly askew from my perception of what Star Wars is. It also tried explaining the Force (or aspects of it) in a very complicated way, that seems very different to my understanding of the Force from previous sources. It's a bit like an exaggerated version if the whole metaclorian thing, but at least it was in a medium that is much easier to reject as canon.
When Lucas’s sidelined ideas become better than the entire sequel trilogy
One thing many forget is the fact that when Qui Gon mentioned the prophecy, HE NEVER USED THE PHRASE "and destroy the Sith" with it. That phrase had to have been ADDED to the prophecy by the JEDI as a benefit to themselves. Prophecy is usually something for encouragement and comfort, and that's why people have faith in them. However, this prophecy might have had NOTHING to do with the Jedi nor the Sith, just the will of the Force. What if the Sith were believing in that prophecy for their benefit, as well? We don't have any record of it, but that's the point... The JEDI could've interpreted it TO THEIR OWN BENEFIT. Hence, "a prophecy misread could've been." -YODA
Quite simply, I have nothing to add. The final theory on the Father's identity is the soundest, most coherent and logical theory I've heard since the EU was dispensed with. While not completely in line with what the EU seems to have suggested, it's otherwise faultless, even explaining Anakin's origins and giving him a purpose, a missed purpose, beyond becoming Darth Vader. It even suggests what they could have done with Luke instead . . . and might do with Rey. And you headed off all the comments, additions, or suggestions I might have made, even before I started typing.
I hate to sound like I'm gushing, but there's just no more I can say. Well done.
The last part of your video (where you were questioning whether you were right and if we would ever know) reminded me of:
"In my experience, just when you think you understand the Force, you find out how little you actually know."
The Father was the representation of the balance of the force. Then when the force was used for evil, the dark side/the Son came to be and the light/the Daughter came to meet or keep the balance. The Daughter's death shows that the Jedi will fall then the Son's death shows the Sith Lords fall next, leaving the Father/balance. But the cycle would repeat itself and the struggle for power with light and dark would continue until balance between light and dark can be found without destroying either or both sides.
Nice
The whole Mortis Arc can definitely be interpreted as a metaphor for Episodes 1 through Six. The Light Side and the Dark Side both probing about whether or not Anakin is the Chosen One, the Dark Side giving Anakin horrific visions to bring it over to its side, the Light Side dying, the power of the Balance slowly waning as the power of the Dark Side waxes, ultimately resulting in [mostly] mutually assured destruction.
The thing is, while the underlining themes in Star Wars and the Balance that you’re talking about are based on Western concepts, the nature of the Force as Lucas was talking about and the idea behind the Jedi are based on Eastern concepts which are directly illustrated not only by “the Ones”, but also with the duality between the Lightside and Darkside of the Force. It’s Yin and Yang, even in the lightest of light, there is a bit of darkness and vice versa, that both the light and the dark are only a half of the greater whole, one cannot exist without the other.
Lucas said that the precursor to the Jedi where at balance until those that preferred the Bogan (the Darkside) split with those of the Ashla (the Lightside). The Ashla would become the Jedi Order and during the Second Schism the Bogan became the Sith. With “the Ones”, the father (Mortis) had to balance out his two children, each representing one aspect of the Force. Taken together, they are the Force and nature anthropomorphized. As the Father grew weak, his children would conflict with each other which resulted in chaos. And the longer Obi-Won, Anakin and Asoka stayed there, the more they reflected that. It’s also painted out through the duality between Palpatine and Yoda, and the opposing paths chosen by Anakin and Luke, which was at the heart of Lucas’ message to young people. That each of us have the potential for both good and evil, it’s a continuous balancing act that we must be willing to learn from since it’s complicated with the fact that sometimes are motives for doing something may led to the opposite result, which is illustrated through the actions taken by Anakin out of the love for his mother and Padma to bad results, and with Luke’s for his friends and father to mixed results which ultimately both panned out for the good.
So in this sense, the Balance can be achieved in one of three ways;
1- the same number of Jedi and Sith. (2 Jedi for the 2 Sith)
2- to end both groups (or their similars) in some way.
3- that each group, each individual, chooses to live in harmony with the other, balancing the flaws of the other for the betterment of everyone
Multifaceted instead of one interpretation?! Like.. The Force in Balance, itself?
@@SutekhChroma
Multifaceted because we are talking about different interconnected things;
The Comic Force. Which just is.
It has no sides. You can say that it is always in balance.
The Living Force. Which connects all life. This is also what people are normally talking about.
The complex ecosystem of life.
And the Individual. An individual can be in or out of balance, and either influence or be influenced by the greater system. The individual takes and defines sides.
If that’s what you mean?
No, balance is to destroy the dadk side which is a corruption of the Force. The Mortis Saga ruined the original concept.
@@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960 Originally, with the Original trilogy, I’d call it high scifi. Where it’s a story of good vs evil. And evil needs to be stopped. And leave it at that.
But, then the prequels happened.
“The Chosen One who will restore the Balance of the Force by destroying the Sith”
Only the Chosen One destroyed nearly everything Jedi, decades before destroying the Sith, and only did that because of his son. And then Lucas never satisfactorily explained what “Balance” or the dualism between Light and Dark. In part, I think, because its an Eastern concept that he was selling to a Western audience, and certain segments of the target audience had problems with that.
Jedi and sith were just cults, just assimilating their numbers is not a balance
Balancing dark and light side in entire galaxy is balance
I wonder if George Lucas watches these
@@mysticalsnail7611 why?
@@unboundchart3115 he's got other things to deal with.
Who know he actually did watch this and make comment using the account with a fake name
@@deadaccount5238 shit they got me.
Hm the Father was once a Jedi and the Chosen One is more than one person throughout time and becomes the Father. I like that theory. Good Theory.
Edit:
But thinking about it more it doesn’t really make sense. Too access the gateway to the world between worlds on Lothal there is a mural of the Son, Daughter and the Father as we knew him, if there was more than one Father/Mother the mural should be different, If the Gateways to the world between worlds has been around as long as the “Ones” have existed the mural should be of the first Father/Mother, not the last.
True enough, but right in Rebels we saw that image of The Ones on the portal was capable of moving and shifting... and perhaps changing entirely.
Sounds like Elric of Melniboné to me ,but Cool !
Thor Skywalker True True, however I really like the idea of the Father/Mother being the Chosen One and their being more than one Chosen One, and if that is the case then there will be no more Chosen One’s because the Son and Daughter were destroyed in the normal forms.
That would depend on how old the mural is itself wouldn't it? If I remember right it was discovered at the same place as that old Jedi Temple, if it was a part of that temple and the temple was built less than 2,000 years ago it would be accurate. But if the mural is far older than the temple then yeah maybe the Father, Son and Daughter have been around for far longer, and are something more akin to the Whills themselves.
But the father said they take forms depending on the lifeforms in front of them. If Anakin, Obi-wan, and Asoka had all been Twileks maybe the father, son, and daughter would have looked like Twileks
Hey so I discovered this on accident while researching a Kendrick Lamar song. But “Mortis” is actually Latin for “Death”
Idk what this means but I learned it and thought I’d share it
@@k-dawgwestmore4643 something to do with the cosmic force maybe? Maybe it has to do with the father’s death and that of the son and daughter? Maybe its the death of the jedi order from its own blindness and stubbornness?
It also demonstrates just how far the Jedi strayed from the path. The idea that Anakin or even Obi-Wan would stay to keep the balance was dismissed almost as soon as it was brought up. What about Padme', what about the war, let me check with the council, what about the republic...all passing trivalness when compared to to maintaining cosmic balance. Yet those phases have become all the Jedi's focus. Even Yoda.
Pretty much. The Jedi had become too caught up in the war and politics. They took council with and became military leaders and politicians rather than the Force. It became about doing what was best for one side or the other rather than for everyone.
Who knows, if Obi-Wan, Anakin and Ashoka had stayed to take the place of the Ones, perhaps all of the galactic wars that followed (including the later part of the Clone Wars) could’ve been avoided.
Thor, are there any universities that grant PhDs in Star Wars, because you should be the Department Chair for Star Wars Studies!
Although, many universities have courses dealing with the themes of Star Wars no college is going to focus on a full program that deals with imaginary lore that isn't mythology.
I think that one of the episodes of the clone wars gave us a good answer about what balancing the force is about in that episode in which Yoda fights a weird dark side version of himself. It only ends when Yoda accepts that this darkness is part of himself. I think that's what the balance is, being aware of your own dark sides does not mean using it or trying to reinforce it in order to be more powerful, quite the opposite actually. Lucas said it, the Star Wars mythical side is based a lot on some 60's peace and love hippie philosophies....not that there are anything wrong with those philosophies....the force is pretty awesome lol
I’ve always thought that ashlaa was the daughters real name and bogun was the sons real name and the fathers name was Bendu. Think of it like this: ashlaa and bogun were once powerful beings who were described as avatars of the force itself or “The Power” as they would’ve described it. They ashlaa sensed bogun or vice versa and determined that the other needed to not exist. Along comes a prophet named Bendu who is powerful with “the power” and they travel to Mortis. There, the small amount of Force sensitive tribesmen and tribes women have constructed fonts of the light and dark side in reverence to their new gods. Bendu, in secret, had a dagger made to kill all three of them should the need arise. Eventually, the dagger was discovered by ashlaa and bogun, and they swore never to go near it. All promises however, eventually break, and it resulted in the death of all three of them starting with Ashlaa, then Bogun, and then shortly after, Bendu which was the Clone Wars arc
You may be onto something, I believe that Ashla, the Daughter would be firstborn as Bogan, the Son would be second-born.
The Father named Bendu? Yeah, I could live with that, and I could conjure up the origins for that they have been inhabited on Planet Mortis they have not used their names for so long.
Avatars of Mortis:
Ashla (The Winged Daughter)
Bendu (The Clawed Father)
Bogan (The Fanged Son)
I wasn’t huge in the idea of Revan or Bane influencing The Son anyway. The idea that the Force God of Darkness would need mortal Sith Lords for guidance feels bizarre. Consider this being George and myself agreeing for different reasons.
I hope 74 years after TFA, R2 and C3P0 still recount the story of the Skywalker Family, to the Keeper of the Whills. Hopefully he in turn would provide the story, as well as the Journal of the Whills, to that kid named George from Earth, connecting the universe to our own.
Space trippin' vato, of the stars. LOLOL that’s awesome!! Bravo
Thanks, but that wasn't my idea, rather an original concept for the ending of the saga.
Space trippin' vato, of the stars. It's a very interesting amazing concept.
xD n1 i guess
If George was still in charge he would
Excellent theory video Thor! I really love the Mortis Arc, it's honestly one of my most favorite part's of SW's and in the lore. And this theory is really good and truly ties everything together! :) (P.S. Love the unintentional LOTR reference in the title! :) )
Mortis was one of my favorite Clone Wars arcs as well. Through me for a loop the first time I saw it because it was so unlike anything we'd seen before. And I'm glad you enjoyed the LotR reference. I am, no surprise, a big fan of that also.
@@thorskywalker Ikr! And that is so awesome that you are a Tolkien fan as well. I have a passion that's as strong for Tolkien's works as it is for SW's! :)
I've always struggled with understanding the (lopsided) "balance" of The Force. This helped! Thank you!
I found your channel last week, and I've been watching your videos like crazy, so I decided to support you on Patreon in gratitude! Love your vids.
to be balanced in the force is to walk a tightrope over a chasm: the tightrope is the light side, the chasm is the dark side.
This just reminds me how much lore star wars has even if it's not legends
Excellent video Thor. This is absolutely spot on with what I have been able to discern about the Force.
I personally think that the Mortis Gods have a LOT more to do with Star Wars then a lot of people give them credit for.
They appeared in two animated series so far, and the theme for the new SW trilogy is all about balance.
So, to add on to your theory. When Qui-Gon says, "I exist where there is no past, no future, there is the Force." He said that when Yoda traveled to Dagobah and the fans thought that it was because he transcended into another realm. Well, there is this piece of text I came across that explains what Obi-Wan went through as soon as he died. He saw the some element of the future, and the past, but felt "alive" through it. Now, compare that to the World Between Worlds. Ezra saw both the future and the past, so he basically existed "where there is no future or past." Therefore, I think Force Ghosts have some major level of involvement in the World Between Worlds and Mortis, since time flows differently, or doesn't exist at all.
Here is where my theory gets weird. I compare Rey to the Daughter and the Son to Kylo Ren. Now, who would the Father be? Luke maybe? The reason why I think this is true, is because the trio would be perfect to maintain balance in the Force. Rey to uphold the light, Ren to uphold the dark, and Luke to control them both, to maintain balance. If you watch the Last Jedi, he keeps talking about balance, which is why a lot of people are saying, "he's off character" (aside from his mannerisms).
So as you suggest, Anakin was supposed to be the next Father. In fact, there is an amazing piece of Legends that explains how Luke found out that Anakin was SUPPOSED to stay on Mortis, and that everything that happened from Revenge of the Sith and beyond is because Anakin made a selfish decision. I believe Anakin broke the cycle that wasn't supposed to be broken. If he hadn't, then Sidious would never have been successful, or at least as much as he was. The Jedi would never have been exterminated, and Luke and Leia (who are basically anomalies to the balance of the Force) would have never been born. I think in the new trilogy, basically the Force trying to course correct, the Light, Dark and the Prime Jedi, therefore restarting the Balance Cycle once again.
Sorry for the long reply lol
This is a really good video, very clear and informative and you explain many concepts that help to get a better and bigger picture, thanks!
*The force is not to be underestimated!* 💪😆
Grand video mate, really helped out my research into the world of Mortis, and how the force works in a realm with no space consistent space or time seeing the past present and futures all at once!
12:00 It also could have been an allusion to the Trinity. Just so you know, I'm not Christian, I'm just bringing it up.
It is a paradox that the Jedi believe that the Dark Side should exist but that Dark Siders should not exist. I understand wanting the Sith to not exist, considering they're age old enemies and all, but without someone with at least some skill in the Dark Side there can be no balance if we take the theory that the Light Side and the Dark Side have to be balanced.
Even though it has been done before, I do like how the Father is mortal and has been different people over the ages, who keeps the avatars of the Light and Dark Side in check, and that Anakin was created by the Father as a replacement.
Love the lord of the rings reference in the title. That was subtle. 😊
Not really haha
Thanks for doing this video--it helps clear up a lot of things I've been debating with others. Also reminded me I need to get a copy of Rebels season 4...
Another great video Thor! Awesome analysis. Definitely food for thought. Perhaps the Father, Daughter and Son are just different aspects of a single being fighting for control.
That is a very interesting theory as well.
Your third theory gave me goosebumps! Loved it
Its all very much like the Cabala. The top Sephiroth "Kether" is beyond all, and a perfect balance. Kether branches down into Binah (Female) and Chokhmah (Male) and this makes the top three Sephiroth of the Cabala called the "Supernals". One side of the tree of life is considered "Dark" and the other side "Light" with the middle path down the middle being the sweet spot.
I think you have one of the MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE viewpoints on the Star Wars universe that I have ever witnessed! And for me, being that I am a TOTAL NERDED OUT NUTJOB of all things portraying the "Arcadian Hope" themes in ANY style, method, or language, I want to say Thank You, Thor Skywalker, for enlightening the World with your brilliance! I have a dream, a hope that everyone dares to dream a dream worth making into a reality that will benefit the existence of All! Of course, as I live in reality, I know this is a hellaciously optimistic dream to cling on to, but a person HAS TO have something to motivate them, or else the Dreadnought wins the war in the end, eh?
ughhh am giving a thumbs up for your attention to detail and while I liked the Mortis concept in the show I do not like the JJ Wars story nor Lucas' original concept. I am an EU fanboy through and through. I loved the long history of SW over the eons not the short 2000 years of the new Wars. The Force shouldn't have a beginning in my opinion and should just "be".
But in the EU they did give us a comic book run about the beginning of the force.
I’ve been looking forward too this
Even L.B was it worth the wait?
That was an awesome theory brother, I don't think I could come up with a better , it does line up perfectly, thanks for sharing it
Not sure if you're right on the priestess but about the father being a former Jedi and the prime Jedi being a father or mother I think you're probably spot on.
I have a theory that the world between worlds is accessible in only a few places, Lothal was the only known one, another possible one is on AchTo, the dark side cave holds a secret entrance that only Luke figured how to enter which will make his Force Ghost important, another one would be on Mortis, I think three entrances are enough, the one on Lothal would be the light side entrance, AchTo the dark side entrance (dark side cave) and Mortis the middle "Bendu" balance entrance
I like that idea, and I agree there are likely only a handful of entrances at best to the World Between Worlds.
Thor Skywalker I just remembered it's almost confirmed that we have a portal on Dagobah since we know Yoda used it to communicate with Ezra and even project himself to Ahsoka in the Jedi temple but in a very realistic way just like what Luke did, except that Yoda didn't die of doing it which means he only allowed his reflection to appear through a portal he stood right in front of which was the portal leading to the temple, Luke's projection method was different, you have to make a video on it
Thor Skywalker I also assume that there's an entrance on Coruscant that Palpatine is attempting to use and one on Mustafar, the one on Mustafar needs a rock puzzle to be solved or something like that and the missing part that prevents Vader from entering is the obsidian that Snoke wears on his ring, I also think that Snoke has attempted time traveling and saw that there is a possible different outcome of events if Vader had all the obsidian rocks with him so Snoke had to steal only one rock, by the time he took it, Vader was still Anakin, I still believe that theory of Legends being an alternate continuity erased by Snoke who gave us a continuity we know as the canon, I would like to see a video about the world between worlds and its connections with projections and all confirmed gateways, we have so far Lothal, Dagobah and Coruscant (and possibly Mortis)
Great vid and well thought out and communicated. Absolutely awesome and super-interesting to contemplate.
Wow this was agreat video and I loved your theory at the end regarding the true identity of the father.
Very nice video and I live all your theories about how the force works.
I've been going through your older videos and have found them to be very enjoyable.
I like your theory on Mortis and the role of the Father, his children and Anakin. Makes a lot of sense. It could be that the showrunners and writers really don't know themselves and only pulled a few elements here and there from our own myths to set up plot points.
When it comes to the nature of the Force with regard to what Balance means rather than everyone arguing over it being the absence of the Dark Side or a true balance between the light and the dark, might I offer an alternative view George Lucas, who came up with both the Mortis arc and the prior view that balance was the absence of Dark, Gasp! Changed his mind!
The Mortis arc added some great lore the series I like the idea of the force in balance being the most important thing and anakin being the chosen one even if he didn’t want to be... I’m curious about the “force wielders” (the ones) are they the celestials from Legends?
Finally! A theory that ties it all!
I like your line of thinking. However I feel that to do something in epIX tying into all of this would feel like quite the stretch for some people.
I guess it's just the problem of George and his prodigy only really having the freedom to explore dank, deep-lore stuff in a medium that aren't the movies for "Mass consumption"
Dude your videos are the best on CZcams.
obviously this is an old ass video but i’ve recently found your channel and have been going through the backlog~ i just wanted to say i really enjoyed this episode specifically. you explore some interesting concepts that are over-arcing throughout the entire star wars lore, and i’ve always found these sorts of metaphysical discussions about sw to be fascinating!
i particularly enjoy/subscribe to your last theory, although the idea of the father being a god is also fun to think about!
The multiple chosen one aspects to me is really fascinating
I am sorry but I have never been a big fan of the Mortis storyline. Just me. However, I think you have a solid theory. It would connect a lot of dots, and make sense of some lingering plot threads, like why no Anakin Force ghost after ROTJ? Who or what was his father? Is, or was, Rey created in the same way? Were her drunken, junk-dealer parents simply a conduit? Does this have to do with Luke's disillusionment on Ach To? (Because finding the 1st Jedi temple as your place to die is just dumb and wtf did you leave a map for?) Did Luke realize he was or wasn't the Chosen One as was suggested in Rebels? There is a difference between creating mystery and keeping something unexplained and just lazy, nonsensical storytelling and I hope that some answers are finally given in Episode 9.
I dislike the Mortis storyline as well. What were your problems with it?
I also agree that it's lazy, nonsensical storytelling but that's exactly what Rian Johnson gave us and unlike Thor Skywalker, I WILL come out and crap all over that movie the same way it crapped all over us. Essentially the current directors (even Abrams) seem to just be making reckless decisions, hopelessly uninformed decisions and then leaving the writers to pick up the slack (the Starkiller base beam being seen in real-time across the whole galaxy, for instance).
@@ZehnWaters my problem is a 'personification' of The Force in the guise of The Father, The Son, and The Daughter. It is very close to the trinity, and of course The Son personifies anger and the dark side and The Daughter personifies compassion and the light side. So The Force gets a personification and gender roles! Unlike some, I did not hate the midiclorians idea, just thought it was misunderstood in how it was presented, but this idea? No. Also, no time passing on Mortis? Also No. Something like Zenoma Sekot, makes sense but this, and the World between Worlds, is a bit too far on the strange spectrum for me.
Richard Lartz agreed, on all fronts.
I think those are some amazing theories! It would be interesting to speculate what would have happened if Anakin stayed on Mordis to keep the balance.
Mortis makes my brain hurt so bad...
5:55 I disagree. What if a Jedi doesn’t understand what balance is? The Jedi Order seemed to be trying to push away the Dark Side altogether.
Ive been coming up with a theory recently that re-incorporates Starkiller into canon using the brother as a conduit.
when the mortis arc ends we see the daughter leave through ashoka, and the father live on through Anakin. However, we never see the son leave, meaning the force is imbalanced, I like the idea that the son latches onto a small child outside of mortis.
That child ends up being the child of a jedi after order 66 and is adopted by vader after killing the father. This gives us a litteral rebirth of the mortis family, with anakin/vader being the father, ashoka being the daughter and Galen Marek being the son.
This story would have to greatly vary from the original games but if you made a starkiller story that focused on darth Vader as a father before meeting luke and his failures it provides a great way to both legitimise the sequels as a continuation of the canon that doesnt cheapen the "balance" achieved at the end of ep 6 while also being an opportunity to humanise vader and regain his redeemability at the end of that movie. One thing alot of prequel haters really dislike is how irredeemable Vader becomes after the younglings and force choking. Giving Vader a son gives him an opportunity to redeem himself through repeated action and a conviction to do better.
Also giving Galen a tag along like the son gives him a believable reason to be powerful enough to bring down a destroyer with the force since he's borrowing power.
I think having the son ride along with galen gives interesting story beats especially as the son was not originally not on the dark side within the arc and depicts his fall to such. I'd love to see the struggles that a child goes through living with the influences of Vader and the son gives and how that could serve the theological themes of startwars as a whole.
That shot with the father in the background wings outstretched, combined with his clothing reminds me of the Anunaki of ancient Mesopotamian myth.
Kenobi confused me when they showed Qui Gonn manifested at the end because I remembered that dialogue about him not finishing.
Honestly that past part you were saying about the jedi is kind of cool. It's like star wars now has their own avatar.
This arc was so amazing.
I like your idea of The Father's origin and the creation on Anakin being meant to be the next Father. It would explain his unmatched midi clorion count and the reason Anakin had not father. The Father was his father😂
While i partially agree with what you said about the balance being the balance between the light and dark however i do think Lucas' version makes sense too. I would say the because the cosmic force relies on the living force if mass suffering and death were to occur it would offset the living force. I would say the cosmic and living prefer natural death over murder because the force itself is natural. So if the jedi are peace keepers and the sith destroy then it would make sense that luke could restore the balance by ending most of the suffering and murder. However, if the sith and jedi were to coexist purely to maintain the balance and not for their own agendas then the balance would still be kept. So it is not so much a balance between the light and dark but a balance between the living and the cosmic force
Very insightful thoughts and theories. What I found interesting is the parallelism between the Father, Son, and Daughter on one hand, and Anakin, Luke, and Leia on the other. What that means I have yet to explore. I wonder, Thor, how that parallelism fits with everything you discussed here.
You are so right, I could go on about what happened in the Expanded Universe for hours, Nice vid though
You are so wise Thor. Really! This Mythos you are speculating is very original, it makes sense and it would be beautiful if it was made canon.
I must say I’m impressed. You are the only other person that I know of besides myself that has your view about what balance means. It’s about the freedom to exist. The light side being dominant guarantees the coexistence of the dark and the light since it is aligned with the concept of freedom. The Dark side on the other hand is about domination and if it (or more accurately those who use it) is allowed to do what it tends to do would seek out and destroy the light. Thus, the Jedi in their purest form must be dominant to maintain balance.
I have always wonder how Rey and Kylo might fit into this equation and if its a coincidence that the daughter of light resambles Rey and the son of darkness resambles Kylo? Johan.
I think it would be great, even if done subtly, if Episode IX mentions Mortis in some way and ties back to it.
This was so interesting, thank you!
Great vid. Very interesting. This is exactly why we should have gotten Lucas's ST! I believe that all these answers would be reviled. From the little info that we know of his outline. Was he was going to really delve into the aspects of the Force.
That's why I like the gray Jedi because of the balance in the force
Awesome video as always! I have a question. How do you get on your discord server? Is it only for patreons? Sorry for asking if it is obvious or smth
Yes, it is only for Patreons, but the minimum $1 a month will get you on there. The link for anyone interested is as follows: www.patreon.com/Thor_Skywalker
So this Reylo thing could be the beginning of a new cycle of the Mortis family. or would it be the Solo family. Ben and Rey will have children, twins which runs in the Skywalker blood. They will have to sacrifice themselves or be outside the universe; where ever they came from. Their children will be the daughter and son leaving the universe in balance and peace to follow.
5;38 “…the problem is not the existence of the dark side; rather, it’s the existence of those who wield the dark side and use if for their own selfish gain. That is what causes imbalance…”
I’ve never heard this point stated so succinctly before. So many people (including myself) struggle to understand what balance in the Force is supposed to mean. I get it now.
Luke has been to a monolith as well but a different one. Mortis is not the only monolith.
You already know my thoughts re: Mortis 😁😁😁👍👍👍 I totally ❤️❤️❤️❤️ the Mortis storyline, S3 E15-17, Clone Wars animated series. A worthy ending for Luke if he is The Chosen One who remains on Mortis to balance Ben the dark & Rey the light. We do get Reylo endgame and not without their personal sacrifice (all three have a duty & purpose). The tragedy of Anakin Skywalker is very haunting as far as mythical takes go 😢
I love those theories, especially the third 🖖😎👍
I think that we could see Mortis maybe appear in the Ashoka show and maybe even in the Mandalorian with Grogu, given Filoni’s involvement and reports that Lucas is getting more involved, especially given Lucas wanted the son to be the ep IX villain
Is possible the mother(abuloth)become canon somehow?because what is interseting is the mother is the opposide of the father balancer but the mother is chaosers.
Can't deny that does make a lot of sense and is a good idea.
The Mystery of Star Wars is the "suspension of disbelief". I personally am satisfied with the original trilogy; I didn't need the prequels explaining Darth Vader, the clone wars or how Obi Wan's story. The only question I had was "Why was a friend of Luke's father hiding in the desert?" And I just assumed Luke went on to rebuild the Knights Jedi so the seemingly secret teachings of the force wouldn't be forgotten after Return of the Jedi. All this explaining in films, tv, video games, comics and novels is great (don't get me wrong) but does it all have to connect? I feel like all this speculation and talking about it creates a New Extended Universe
The fact is, whatever weird Force gods the cartoons have introduced, Star Wars remains the simple story of a young boy who must become a knight and redeem the memory of his father. The Force simply has the role of the invisible God that leads him throughout his quest.
TFA had got this, and that's why it didn't try to change the essential nature of Star Wars. It simply took the young boy as an old man and started to tell the story of his final return and death. Then "The Last Jedi", while rushing that story by killing Luke at mid-trilogy, tried to get technical about the balance in the Force ("darkness rises and light to meet it") with the only result of contradicting Lucas' official definition of that balance. Definition that is at the beginning of TFA, by the way, thanks to Lor San Tekka: "without the (true) Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force". Very simple, very clear. That's a key sentence that no one ever quotes. Like the Land can't be fine without the King, the Galaxy can't be fine without the Jedi. That's it.
Who is Lor San Tekka?
This is the kind of thing Star Wars fan could talk about for days. I like to think they are manifestations of the different aspects of the force.
I think originally, there was no light or dark side. There was just the Force (represented here by the Farther). The Force in its purest and most efficient form being when it was left alone to function as intended, as you've said in many videos.
It was when the Force was discovered by people that started the initial imbalance, since there was no real knowledge or training of its use or nature of any kind back then, people who could tap into it naturally used it for selfish gains, even if those people weren't necessarily evil. Over the ages this misuse of the Force, intentional or not, created a corrupted, unnatural perversion of the Force that could literally consume and will people to do horrible things was formed. This is what's known as the "dark side".
Left unchecked, the dark side would consume the Force and destroy everything, so the Force, unable to destroy the dark side, created the "light side", the exact opposite of the dark and equal in power, so that the 2 sides would cancel each other out and balance would remain constant.
This is obviously the struggle between the Son and the Daughter, especially considering that it's the "Farther" (meaning he came before them) that keeps them in check. I think the Mortis gods are a physical manifestation of all aspects of the force, depicting the constant struggle for everyone to see. Either of them can cause an imbalance. It's actually the Daughter that does so here, since her pure selflessness makes her blind to the chaos that the Son would inevitably cause if the light was taken away, just as the Jedi of the prequels were blind to the Sith (you could say the Jedi had been consumed by the light, just as you can be consumed by the dark, except it's much rarer, another contrast to the dark side). The Son becomes all powerful once the Daughter is dead, its only when the Farther takes his own life that the Son loses his power and becomes mortal.
That's what I think anyway.
My theory: The Ones of Mortis are very much like the Prophets of the Bajoran Wormhole in Star Trek. As in, they exist outside of linear time. But, upon being made to meet beings who exist, live, and die within linear time, they experience a fundamental change as that perception of reality infects and alters them. On a fundamental level, interacting with beings who experience mortality causes an upheaval of everything they know. Anakin and company were the last to meet the Ones, but they were certainly not the first.
In fact, The Ones must have had extensive relations with the galaxy at large, for things like the Mural of Lothal to exist in the first place; and the fact that the Father knew an ancient Jedi distress code. 'Time' began to have an effect on them, which is why the father appeared to be a wizened old man, and the Son and Daughter were youthful adults. The Father very much looks like traditional depictions of 'Father Time', symbolizing that the idea of Balance in the Force has existed as long as the Force has. The Light and the Dark, more specifically, them being in conflict... They're relatively new concepts, on a cosmic time scale. The more they interacted with mortals, the more the concept of 'mortality' latched onto them, until they started to age, causing the already-wizened Father to be teetering on the edge of dying of old age.
The Son and Daughter are male and female because of the values that those that wield the Light and the Dark tend to represent. Those that bring light seek passion, serenity, peace, generosity, submissive, and other things mostly associated with femininity. Those who are aligned with the dark are selfish, aggressive, dominant, cold, devious, survivalists... The masculine.
This theory is amazing!
In Legends continuity, The Ones are mortal reincarnations of the Celestial race that disappeared well before the founding of the Republic, at the rise of the Infinite Empire. There are many theories on what happened to them, though the generally agreed upon that they ascended to a higher plane of existence and are possibly the will of the force, both cosmic and living force. This is why the Ones are representations of the different sides of the Force, the Daughter (Niphal) representing Light and the Son (Eipha) representing Dark, with the Father, AKA Elegast, acting as the balance, keeping them at bay.
The father may have created Anakin as a response to Darth Plagueis attempting to create a force sensitive life form. In the Plagueis novel he doesn't state who specifically created Anakin, stating generally that the force did.
See to me I always wondered if the Mortis Gods were not manifestations of the force influencing what’s to come but reflections of the state of the force. The Son and Daughter were fighting because the light and dark were in conflict. It's also apt that the dark destroyed the light, like the Sith destroying the Jedi, the father sacrificed himself to destroy the dark, Like Anakin sacrificing himself to destroy the Sith.
Fascinating!
i love this theory!